[PICTURES] Is Virat Kohli the greatest ODI run chaser in history?

[mominsaigol]

Kohli is a good test batsman. On par with KP/Clarke/Amla etc.

Babar will finish with average below 40 now that dustbowl era has started and have lesser legacy than guys like Rahane.

With all due respect, the batters you mentioned are all > Kohli in test cricket however yes, Babar isnt in boot kicking distance of kohli In any format.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

Yes, he is the greatest ODI run chaser.

Most Hundreds in successful run chases:23 (No other batter even owns 15 tons)
Highest average in run chase: 90.4%
Most runs in successful run chases: 5,786

Do you know?​

Kohli has returned unbeaten 33 times in ODI run-chases. India have won 32 of these games. The only time India lost in this regard is when he scored 87* against South Africa in the 2011 Gqeberha ODI.

 

[kron]

Also, gotta do it again and again on the big stage not in JAMODIs at home.

Ding ding ding correct answer

 

[kron]

Yes, he is the greatest ODI run chaser.

Most Hundreds in successful run chases:23 (No other batter even owns 15 tons)
Highest average in run chase: 90.4%
Most runs in successful run chases: 5,786

Do you know?​

Kohli has returned unbeaten 33 times in ODI run-chases. India have won 32 of these games. The only time India lost in this regard is when he scored 87* against South Africa in the 2011 Gqeberha ODI.

When did he ever perform in odi icc World Cup event in a big chase? In ko stages vs top sides

 

[saimayubera]

With all due respect, the batters you mentioned are all > Kohli in test cricket however yes, Babar isnt in boot kicking distance of kohli In any format.

naah. similar career arc. great peaks but fell off hard. kohli at one point was no 1 ranked batsman and had a 937 points peak (which takes into account opposition/bowlers/relative scores etc).

kohli also has played in tougher bowling conditions in the post covid/wtc era where flat tracks have disappeared compared to those 3.

hopefully after the nz whitewash india prepare a few flatties so kohli can statpad 3-4 100s against weaker teams and retire with a 48+ average.

 

[mominsaigol]

naah. similar career arc. great peaks but fell off hard. kohli at one point was no 1 ranked batsman and had a 937 points peak (which takes into account opposition/bowlers/relative scores etc).

kohli also has played in tougher bowling conditions in the post covid/wtc era where flat tracks have disappeared compared to those 3.

hopefully after the nz whitewash india prepare a few flatties so kohli can statpad 3-4 100s against weaker teams and retire with a 48+ average.

View attachment 151290

Rankings don't matter. Steve smith even during kohli's peak was comfortably > him at the time.

But yes Kohli was no 2 at that time.

 

[saimayubera]

Rankings don't matter. Steve smith even during kohli's peak was comfortably > him at the time.

But yes Kohli was no 2 at that time.

not just talking about ranking. also volume/quality of runs and average etc.

smith was better than him yes but 2015-2019 kohli was clearly no 2.

smith is goat candidate.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

When did he ever perform in odi icc World Cup event in a big chase? In ko stages vs top sides

117(113) runs in 2023 ODI WC Semifinal against NZ.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

* That was not during a chase.
He played in three ODI World Cup semifinals:

1. 2011 WC SF – 35 runs
2. 2019 WC SF – 1 run
3. 2023 WC SF – 113 runs

He failed badly in 2019 WC SF.

 

[happydavy]

Kohli < Joe Root in tests
Kohli < Smith in tests
Kohli averaging over 60 (real good years) in test since debut - 3 out of 15 years
Smith averaging over 60 (real good years) in test since debut - 7 out of 15 years
Kohli < Williamson in big matches whether ODIs or T20s or Tests
Kohli averaging over 50 in any of the SENA countries = NIL
Kohli averaging under 36 in any of the 4 SENA countries = 2
Kohli averaging under 30 since the beginning on 2020 = 5 out of 6 years

Kohli + PR + Star Sports >> 5 Smiths + 4 Roots + 3 Williamsons + 2 Bradmans + Tendulkar + Obama.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

Kohli < Joe Root in tests
Kohli < Smith in tests
Kohli averaging over 60 (real good years) in test since debut - 3 out of 15 years
Smith averaging over 60 (real good years) in test since debut - 7 out of 15 years
Kohli < Williamson in big matches whether ODIs or T20s or Tests
Kohli averaging over 50 in any of the SENA countries = NIL
Kohli averaging under 36 in any of the 4 SENA countries = 2
Kohli averaging under 30 since the beginning on 2020 = 5 out of 6 years

Kohli + PR + Star Sports >> 5 Smiths + 4 Roots + 3 Williamsons + 2 Bradmans + Tendulkar + Obama.

Dude this thread is about ODI

 

[Cover Drive Six]

On which planet has Kane Williamson played better than Kohli in T20 and ODI World Cups? Lol, can't even Google before posting spam!

 

[mb3407]

On which planet has Kane Williamson played better than Kohli in T20 and ODI World Cups? Lol, can't even Google before posting spam!

Bhai sadma laga hai. Samjho thoda

 

[kron]

117(113) runs in 2023 ODI WC Semifinal against NZ.

So only one in like 7 ko attempts and he averages 29 in KO

Doesn’t sound like a great to me

And 117 in 113 was quite poor on that ultra patta
Shreyas scored way faster

And shreyas himself sucks vs short ball

 

[Cover Drive Six]

So only one in like 7 ko attempts and he averages 29 in KO

Doesn’t sound like a great to me

And 117 in 113 was quite poor on that ultra patta
Shreyas scored way faster

And shreyas himself sucks vs short ball

Good for you.

 

[kron]

Good for you.

It is indeed
so called goat.

Number 1 choker for sure. Congrats to him and his fans

 

[ex-q-zit]

So only one in like 7 ko attempts and he averages 29 in KO

Doesn’t sound like a great to me

And 117 in 113 was quite poor on that ultra patta
Shreyas scored way faster

And shreyas himself sucks vs short ball

Everyone has a role in the team. Even in the opening partnership Rohit is the enforcer while Gll plays at run a ball. Once Roht departs Kohli is expected to hold one end while teh rest play around him. Well, if you are hell bent on just criticizing for the sake of it then good for you.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

It is indeed
so called goat.

Number 1 choker for sure. Congrats to him and his fans

If you twist and tweak the stats to suit your convenience, no player is perfect in any sport.
First, you asked if he had ever performed in an ODI World Cup knockout match. After learning that he scored a century in the semifinal, you shifted to discussing his overall knockout average because you knew he had scored some runs in two finals.

It's good that you've now restricted the discussion to KO's average, whereas earlier, you used to say "I’d agree if Kohli dominated just one World Cup which he never did bla bla". After the 2023 World Cup, you changed the goalpost to fit your narrative.

Kohli was the highest scorer in the Champions Trophy final and won.
He was the MOM in the T20 World Cup final and won.
He dominated multiple tournaments.

Your daily rants on forums about Kohli and Rohit won’t change the actual facts. You can keep calling him a fraud or whatever...lol.

 

[kron]

If you twist and tweak the stats to suit your convenience, no player is perfect in any sport.
First, you asked if he had ever performed in an ODI World Cup knockout match. After learning that he scored a century in the semifinal, you shifted to discussing his overall knockout average because you knew he had scored some runs in two finals.

It's good that you've now restricted the discussion to KO's average, whereas earlier, you used to say "I’d agree if Kohli dominated just one World Cup which he never did bla bla". After the 2023 World Cup, you changed the goalpost to fit your narrative.

Kohli was the highest scorer in the Champions Trophy final and won.
He was the MOM in the T20 World Cup final and won.
He dominated multiple tournaments.

Your daily rants on forums about Kohli and Rohit won’t change the actual facts. You can keep calling him a fraud or whatever...lol.

Facts stats performance
It’s all there for everyone to see
He averages a very very mediocre 29 in 8 ko games

That is absolutely shameful. So called great player who never stepped up for his team and helped his team win. He never made it count

Look at smith. Even in his weaker format he had a better impact than kohli in ko games cause ? He helped them win in 2015

For a great player to be called great you need to step up and help your team win in key matches.

Why are you conflating t20 with odi?
I don’t care about his t20

Even there he nearly cost us the final in 24
It was bumrah that was the difference.

And champions trophy isn’t as important or highly regarded like a World Cup event. So when it matter the king always came up short.

Doesn’t sound like a great to me.

 

[kron]

If you twist and tweak the stats to suit your convenience, no player is perfect in any sport.
First, you asked if he had ever performed in an ODI World Cup knockout match. After learning that he scored a century in the semifinal, you shifted to discussing his overall knockout average because you knew he had scored some runs in two finals.

It's good that you've now restricted the discussion to KO's average, whereas earlier, you used to say "I’d agree if Kohli dominated just one World Cup which he never did bla bla". After the 2023 World Cup, you changed the goalpost to fit your narrative.

Kohli was the highest scorer in the Champions Trophy final and won.
He was the MOM in the T20 World Cup final and won.
He dominated multiple tournaments.

Your daily rants on forums about Kohli and Rohit won’t change the actual facts. You can keep calling him a fraud or whatever...lol.

And lmao at that 100 in the flattest of all pancakes and I also believe his enemy Matt Henry dint play that game either

Even weak as Iyer who can’t play short ball scored a faster 100
In fact kohli nearly cost us there with his slow approach. Always putting pressure on the other batsmen and forcing them to hit out cause of his poor approach.

If the score was like 350 then nz had a very good chance of chasing. Iyer somehow played the innings of his career to save kohlis behind

 

[kron]

Everyone has a role in the team. Even in the opening partnership Rohit is the enforcer while Gll plays at run a ball. Once Roht departs Kohli is expected to hold one end while teh rest play around him. Well, if you are hell bent on just criticizing for the sake of it then good for you.

Rohit and kohli should be forced to retire after 2023 in odi. They choked enough when it mattered. Indias reserve players are better as probably would have performed.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

And lmao at that 100 in the flattest of all pancakes and I also believe his enemy Matt Henry dint play that game either

Even weak as Iyer who can’t play short ball scored a faster 100
In fact kohli nearly cost us there with his slow approach.

So called great player who never stepped up for his team and helped his team win. He never made it count

Why are you conflating t20 with odi?
I don’t care about his t20

Even there he nearly cost us the final in 24
It was bumrah that was the difference.

And champions trophy isn’t as important or highly regarded like a World Cup event. So when it matter the king always came up short.

Doesn’t sound like a great to me.

As I said, you can pluck feathers from an egg as much as you want to suit your narrative. Matt Henry didn’t play… Richard Hadlee was missing… Flat pitch, blah blah


He stepped up many times and won tournaments, but folks like you always come up with excuses to satisfy your agenda and biases.

He stepped up in the Champions Trophy final and won the tournament..yet you say the Champions Trophy isn’t that important.

He stepped up in the T20 World Cup final when India was 30/4 and won the match with a MOM..but you say, 'Nah, it was Bumrah,' and that you don’t care about T20s.

So, you only care about ODIs, and within that, you only focus on KO averages—ignoring finals and other tournaments, lol.

If you consider Steve Smith, he has a better average than many greats, including Tendulkar and Ponting. But according to your logic, the only relevant criterion is ODI knockout averages—not finals, not other tournaments. So Steve Smith >>> Tendulkar and Ponting.

 

[charlie007]

You forgot to mention Tapash Baisya.

Actually, I faced him in a league match in Washington Cricket League 13-14 years ago … harmless.

 

[Bhaijaan]

There is no one even close.

 

[dravidthewall]

Chase master

 

[The Bald Eagle]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1896965470739402829

 

[Bhaijaan]

View attachment 151670

Didn’t realize Joe bhai was a chase master also .

Thalla still the GOAT

 

[DeadlyVenom]

He is the ODI GOAT alongside Viv.

 

[Rajdeep]

He is the ODI GOAT alongside Viv.

Ever heard of ?

 

[Mockingbird]

Ever heard of ?

I would rate Kohli over Tendulkar and Viv in ODIs. That chasing record is insane. I don’t think we ever will have a matchwinner like him again.

 

[sindhiboy]

Ever heard of ?

average of 32 vs SENA in SENA. kohli is better than him in odis

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Ever heard of ?

Kohli is much better. He grabs games by the scruff of the neck better than any other batsman I have seen.

I haven't seen VIv just read about him but from his stats he was clear ahead of his time and his peers too.

 

[ex-q-zit]

average of 32 vs SENA in SENA. kohli is better than him in odis

You are comparing Apples and Oranges.

Firstly, they played in different eras which had different rules. Whilst Tendulkar only had 1 powerplay in 1st 15 overs today that isn't the case. Also today 2 new balls are used.

Secondly, Sachin played in an era when even teams like Windies and Zimbabwe had world class bowlers like Walsh, Ambrose, Heath syreak etc let alone the big boys like Wasim, Younis Shoaib Akhtar, Bret lee, McGrath, Donald, Pollack, Warne, Murali, Saqi etc. Whereas today thats not the case.

Thirdly, until the like sof Yuvi, Sehwag etc came Sachin had to single handedly shoulder the batting responsibility unlike Kohli who has Rohit, Raina, Dhoni, Iyer, Hardik etc to share teh burden.

I am not taking away Kohli's credit here and still maintain he is the greatest white ball batsmen to have graced the game but Sachin was not too far behind.

 

[mikeypbadana86]

Facts stats performance
It’s all there for everyone to see
He averages a very very mediocre 29 in 8 ko games

That is absolutely shameful. So called great player who never stepped up for his team and helped his team win. He never made it count

Look at smith. Even in his weaker format he had a better impact than kohli in ko games cause ? He helped them win in 2015

For a great player to be called great you need to step up and help your team win in key matches.

Why are you conflating t20 with odi?
I don’t care about his t20

Even there he nearly cost us the final in 24
It was bumrah that was the difference.

And champions trophy isn’t as important or highly regarded like a World Cup event. So when it matter the king always came up short.

Doesn’t sound like a great to me.

heard about clutch players like inzamam, sanath jayasuriya, aravinda de silva, dhoni, sachin? can you please pull their average in knock outs (including finals) and compare with kohli ? Did he not score in 2023 ODI world cup semis and final?

2011 odi final. 35 as a youngstar . Had it not been for a blinder by dilshan, i think kohli was set to score big since he was set

2015 ODI semis 329 . Aus got better off him

2019 ODI semis. Umpires call/luck going against him since it rained overnight and the match got pushed to next day. As a batter and specially captain, no one would like to go to the hotel room thinking about the teams/own innings all night. worst to end up on the wrongside of luck.

2023 ODI semis and final:100 + and 50 +.


you are ignoring champions trophy but dhoni is credited for winning 3 ODI torunaments which includes champion trophy. do not discard for confirmation bias. Kohli's overall t20, champions trophy + ODI world cup knock out record is great.

 

[kron]

heard about clutch players like inzamam, sanath jayasuriya, aravinda de silva, dhoni, sachin? can you please pull their average in knock outs (including finals) and compare with kohli ? Did he not score in 2023 ODI world cup semis and final?

2011 odi final. 35 as a youngstar . Had it not been for a blinder by dilshan, i think kohli was set to score big since he was set

2015 ODI semis 329 . Aus got better off him

2019 ODI semis. Umpires call/luck going against him since it rained overnight and the match got pushed to next day. As a batter and specially captain, no one would like to go to the hotel room thinking about the teams/own innings all night. worst to end up on the wrongside of luck.

2023 ODI semis and final:100 + and 50 +.


you are ignoring champions trophy but dhoni is credited for winning 3 ODI torunaments which includes champion trophy. do not discard for confirmation bias. Kohli's overall t20, champions trophy + ODI world cup knock out record is great.

Blinder grinder

Facts is he averages 29 in icc World Cup events for odi

That is disgraceful for so called goat odi player which he isn’t clearly

T20 is seperate. Don’t conflate stats with t20

But all those players you mentioned right, guess what? I don’t rate any of them. Including Inzi who is just fat trash. He averages 23 in knock out stages of odi.

Dhongi played a match winning role in 2011 atleast

Kohli never had a match winning innings that lead to a WC win

Losses yes? Maybe like 2023 but never tournament wins

Gambir is more clutch than kohli ever was and he won us 2 tournaments

 

[MP2011]

average of 32 vs SENA in SENA. kohli is better than him in odis

Poor way of looking at things.

 

[mikeypbadana86]

Blinder grinder

Facts is he averages 29 in icc World Cup events for odi

That is disgraceful for so called goat odi player which he isn’t clearly

T20 is seperate. Don’t conflate stats with t20

But all those players you mentioned right, guess what? I don’t rate any of them. Including Inzi who is just fat trash. He averages 23 in knock out stages of odi.

Dhongi played a match winning role in 2011 atleast

Kohli never had a match winning innings that lead to a WC win

Losses yes? Maybe like 2023 but never tournament wins

Gambir is more clutch than kohli ever was and he won us 2 tournaments

can you be honest? Check gambhirs 2007 t20 knock which is exactly what kohli did in tougher match situation. If you are not rating kohli's t20 world cup final knock, why are you bragging about gambhir winning t20 worldcup when the same yardstick was not applied to kohli? whats dhonis contribution in any t20 knock innings in his 6 world cup apperances where as kohli ended as man of the tournament. T20 is face of cricket and ICC+ BCCI has contemplated about ending ODI format had ind won 2023 ODI world cup. Yes. dhoni won 2011 world cup final , it had a contribution from Gambhir with an equal impact and to a lesser extent import knock of 35 from Kohli.

why is it Kohlis fault that no one else except him turned up in 2023 ODI world cup final. Rahul's was an impact less knock with strike rate of 60 odd , had it been 85 like kohli's, Ind would have scored 270-280 and match would have been tighter. Dravid/Rohit doing pitch doctoring and opting for a slow pitch in anticipation of AUS batting was beyond Kohli's control.

You are cribbing about Kohli being dropped. are you aware of sachins famous 98 knock against PAK in 2003 ODI world cup? are you aware of steve waugh winning a knock out qualifier against SA in 1999 where he was dropped by gibbs. which idiot would discount match winning knock if a batter had a half chance/full chance going for the batter ?


Lara never had a match winning ODI knock out or a world cup medal. The whole cricketing fraternity rates lara on par with sachin including the fans who followed cricket/follow cricket.


what is your cricketing experience as viewer? how long have you been watching? i am watching since last 30 years.

60 over ODI format was history. ICC may stop ODI format with t20 being the future. Kohli is not yet done yet, lets wait for champions trophy final. Did sachin play a match winning final innings? why do you think some one like shoiab akthar who had a rich name and legacy rates sachin as the best batter because he is no biased fan...Be a fan...mad fan...mad hater..have some logic bud!

 

[mikeypbadana86]

@kron But all those players you mentioned right, guess what? I don’t rate any of them.

who do you rate in the following categories?
ODI ..... top 3 batters.....why and what yard stick?
t20. ----- top 3 batters......why and what yard stick?
Test--------top 3 batters------why and what yard stick?

 

[kron]

@kron But all those players you mentioned right, guess what? I don’t rate any of them.

who do you rate in the following categories?
ODI ..... top 3 batters.....why and what yard stick?
t20. ----- top 3 batters......why and what yard stick?
Test--------top 3 batters------why and what yard stick?

T20 and odi don’t create legends

Legends are made in test cricket
There are plenty better than kohli
Infact 5 6 better than him from India alone in all time category

Also let’s talk odi

For a so called goat why is his odi average in world cups for ko stages so poor?
It’s 29.83

That is pathetic

 

[kron]

can you be honest? Check gambhirs 2007 t20 knock which is exactly what kohli did in tougher match situation. If you are not rating kohli's t20 world cup final knock, why are you bragging about gambhir winning t20 worldcup when the same yardstick was not applied to kohli? whats dhonis contribution in any t20 knock innings in his 6 world cup apperances where as kohli ended as man of the tournament. T20 is face of cricket and ICC+ BCCI has contemplated about ending ODI format had ind won 2023 ODI world cup. Yes. dhoni won 2011 world cup final , it had a contribution from Gambhir with an equal impact and to a lesser extent import knock of 35 from Kohli.

why is it Kohlis fault that no one else except him turned up in 2023 ODI world cup final. Rahul's was an impact less knock with strike rate of 60 odd , had it been 85 like kohli's, Ind would have scored 270-280 and match would have been tighter. Dravid/Rohit doing pitch doctoring and opting for a slow pitch in anticipation of AUS batting was beyond Kohli's control.

You are cribbing about Kohli being dropped. are you aware of sachins famous 98 knock against PAK in 2003 ODI world cup? are you aware of steve waugh winning a knock out qualifier against SA in 1999 where he was dropped by gibbs. which idiot would discount match winning knock if a batter had a half chance/full chance going for the batter ?


Lara never had a match winning ODI knock out or a world cup medal. The whole cricketing fraternity rates lara on par with sachin including the fans who followed cricket/follow cricket.


what is your cricketing experience as viewer? how long have you been watching? i am watching since last 30 years.

60 over ODI format was history. ICC may stop ODI format with t20 being the future. Kohli is not yet done yet, let’s wait for champions trophy final. Did sachin play a match winning final innings? why do you think some one like shoiab akthar who had a rich name and legacy rates sachin as the best batter because he is no biased fan...Be a fan...mad fan...mad hater..have some logic bud!

Kohli never performed in a match winning cause that led to a title
And his average in ko stages in odi World Cup history is poor

Sachin has a better average in Ko hence people rate Sachin much higher?
Isn’t that obvious?

Kohli also plays in flat pitch era, 2 ball rule,
Small boundaries, bigger bats, field restrictions, power play rules etc

So yes obviously Sachin and Lara are better?

Lara had a weaker team that he carried on his own

The so called king failed with the goat Asian pace attack twice

True we shouldn’t have pitch doctoted

But kohli played a slow innings before he got out. He struggled to hit out despite Rohit giving a decent start.

Also the great Kl Rahul is a trash player. I agree he may have had a negative impact on kohli as Kl gives off meek vibes and often chokes in key games. Almost always actually
When we needed him to step up since people like you proclaim him as some goat???

So why couldn’t goat step up when it mattered? Why does goat average 29 in ko stages of world cups? There is no excuse for that

Once he fails that’s fine
Twice ok.
Every time? Nha that doesn’t sound like a truly great player to me

 

[mikeypbadana86]

Kohli never performed in a match winning cause that led to a title
And his average in ko stages in odi World Cup history is poor

Sachin has a better average in Ko hence people rate Sachin much higher?
Isn’t that obvious?

Kohli also plays in flat pitch era, 2 ball rule,
Small boundaries, bigger bats, field restrictions, power play rules etc

So yes obviously Sachin and Lara are better?

Lara had a weaker team that he carried on his own

The so called king failed with the goat Asian pace attack twice

True we shouldn’t have pitch doctoted

But kohli played a slow innings before he got out. He struggled to hit out despite Rohit giving a decent start.

Also the great Kl Rahul is a trash player. I agree he may have had a negative impact on kohli as Kl gives off meek vibes and often chokes in key games. Almost always actually
When we needed him to step up since people like you proclaim him as some goat???

So why couldn’t goat step up when it mattered? Why does goat average 29 in ko stages of world cups? There is no excuse for that

Once he fails that’s fine
Twice ok.
Every time? Nha that doesn’t sound like a truly great player to me

True we shouldn’t have pitch doctotred.
It was done which changed the nature of pitch and style of play.
But kohli played a slow innings before he got out. He struggled to hit out despite Rohit giving a decent start.
World cup finals are not won on decent starts but on long innings. Rohit threw it away. 6 and 4 and then he throws it away. what happened is back to back wickets of him and shreyas. 80/3 in a world cup final. Its not t20 to go bang bang.

But kohli played a slow innings before he got out. He struggled to hit out despite Rohit giving a decent start.
let me share the stats. He started off scoring 3 boundaires in stark's over.The intent was there.

Virat Kohli 50 (57b 4x4). how is this slow on a pitch which became slow and extremely difficult. watch 1996 semis for what can a slow(albiet turning pitch here) could do batters . India was bundled out for 120/8 on a slow albiet turning track.

The same 2023 ODI ahmedabad pitch was used ( less likely a doctored pitch), Pakistan was bundled out for 191 from 150/2 in 30 overs. The wicket was sluggish and pitch doctoring was done.dont blame kohli here.

Also the great Kl Rahul is a trash player. I agree he may have had a negative impact on kohli as Kl gives off meek vibes and often chokes in key games. Almost always actually
Imagine KL rahul playing in 2011 ODI final with dhoni in the crease. Cricket finals/knockouts are won on partnerships. Please come out of your judgement too. India was very unlucky to loose the duo of rishabd pant and pandya which changed the batting approach of Virat kohli too to certain extent.

Look at what cricinfo was saying about the nature of pitch. Its not like kohli was buckling under preassure, he was taking the game deep but for this great ball.How is 54 off 63 a slow innings, specially when he could have made this up had he batted longer.

Cummins to Kohli, OUT
Cummins has Kohli chopping on! He's been sensational today for Australia. Short and into the pitch once again, angling in and aiming for the top of the stumps. Kohli does not have room to free his arms and the ball isn't coming onto the bat either on this pitch. He hops and can only drag it back onto his own stumps. Cummins wheels away and silences the the 100,000-plus Indian supporters at the Motera
Virat Kohli b Cummins 54 (63b 4x4 0x6 99m) SR: 85.71


So why couldn’t goat step up when it mattered? Why does goat average 29 in ko stages of world cups? There is no excuse for that

2011 ODI world cup final 35 crucial knock
2015 ODI semis 330 is the target here.Agreed, he was failure
2019 semis - Check the match stats. Kohli's wicket was 'umpires call' on a ball thats barely clicking top of off stump. It did not help Indias chase got pushed to next day after rain. Rain + over cast conditions made it 'advantage NZ'. A peak 1999 PAK team was bundled out for 132 in similar conditions. A peak west indies could not change 183. Its so unfortunate that the innings got pushed to the next day.

2023 ODI semis- 100+ kohli's 50th century. why are you silent on this?
2023 ODI final - 53 runs

No fool averages selectively on knock outs. You are bragging about dhonis world cup 100. whats his average in world cup knock out matches? As i said, dhoni was blessed to have support of yuvraj/raina/sachin/sehwag specially trio of yuvraj, raina and dhoni, himself..Add gambhir to the list.

Kohli got unlucky in 2023 ODI final that instead of duo of rishab pant/hardik pandaya he had duo of **** KL rahul ,Jadeja.

Greatness/being called GOAT is cumulative impact of across formats, not just one odd world cup knock that may fit haters.

 

[mikeypbadana86]

T20 and odi don’t create legends

Legends are made in test cricket
There are plenty better than kohli
Infact 5 6 better than him from India alone in all time category

Also let’s talk odi

For a so called goat why is his odi average in world cups for ko stages so poor?
It’s 29.83

That is pathetic

Kohli was a nobody in 2011, he was barely establishing . He definetly played a matured knock of 35 in world cup final which was well acknowledged by dhoni about kohli in presentation ceremony.

2015 semis- failure
2019 semis- Unlucky to get lbw on umpire call
2023 ODI world cup- century.

out of 3 ODI world cup knock outs, he had one century. if he plays 2027 ODI world cup, i think he may shut you with an other ODI century in world cup semis/final.

 

[jnaveen1980]

This particular chase was Vintage kohli chase. But the way he usually goes about chases is he hits the ball through the gaps for 80% of his innings then finish with a flourish. In between he would put away absolutely rank bad balls. That is his comfort zone. After hsi game against spin diminished he was not doing the same anymore for a while. Surprisingly he played spin like his old self in this tournament. If he plays spin like he used to play, he is a very hard batsman to dismiss.

 

[Prince of Dorne]

An absolute GOAT of white ball cricket, when he retires, it will be felt.

 

[kron]

Kohli was a nobody in 2011, he was barely establishing . He definetly played a matured knock of 35 in world cup final which was well acknowledged by dhoni about kohli in presentation ceremony.

2015 semis- failure
2019 semis- Unlucky to get lbw on umpire call
2023 ODI world cup- century.

out of 3 ODI world cup knock outs, he had one century. if he plays 2027 ODI world cup, i think he may shut you with an other ODI century in world cup semis/final.

He won’t be able to shut me until he helps us win a title

He failed at the end of the day to take us home.

We won’t need him cause we have better players in the reserve

 

[kron]

True we shouldn’t have pitch doctotred.
It was done which changed the nature of pitch and style of play.
But kohli played a slow innings before he got out. He struggled to hit out despite Rohit giving a decent start.
World cup finals are not won on decent starts but on long innings. Rohit threw it away. 6 and 4 and then he throws it away. what happened is back to back wickets of him and shreyas. 80/3 in a world cup final. Its not t20 to go bang bang.

But kohli played a slow innings before he got out. He struggled to hit out despite Rohit giving a decent start.
let me share the stats. He started off scoring 3 boundaires in stark's over.The intent was there.

Virat Kohli 50 (57b 4x4). how is this slow on a pitch which became slow and extremely difficult. watch 1996 semis for what can a slow(albiet turning pitch here) could do batters . India was bundled out for 120/8 on a slow albiet turning track.

The same 2023 ODI ahmedabad pitch was used ( less likely a doctored pitch), Pakistan was bundled out for 191 from 150/2 in 30 overs. The wicket was sluggish and pitch doctoring was done.dont blame kohli here.

Also the great Kl Rahul is a trash player. I agree he may have had a negative impact on kohli as Kl gives off meek vibes and often chokes in key games. Almost always actually
Imagine KL rahul playing in 2011 ODI final with dhoni in the crease. Cricket finals/knockouts are won on partnerships. Please come out of your judgement too. India was very unlucky to loose the duo of rishabd pant and pandya which changed the batting approach of Virat kohli too to certain extent.

Look at what cricinfo was saying about the nature of pitch. Its not like kohli was buckling under preassure, he was taking the game deep but for this great ball.How is 54 off 63 a slow innings, specially when he could have made this up had he batted longer.

Cummins to Kohli, OUT
Cummins has Kohli chopping on! He's been sensational today for Australia. Short and into the pitch once again, angling in and aiming for the top of the stumps. Kohli does not have room to free his arms and the ball isn't coming onto the bat either on this pitch. He hops and can only drag it back onto his own stumps. Cummins wheels away and silences the the 100,000-plus Indian supporters at the Motera
Virat Kohli b Cummins 54 (63b 4x4 0x6 99m) SR: 85.71


So why couldn’t goat step up when it mattered? Why does goat average 29 in ko stages of world cups? There is no excuse for that

2011 ODI world cup final 35 crucial knock
2015 ODI semis 330 is the target here.Agreed, he was failure
2019 semis - Check the match stats. Kohli's wicket was 'umpires call' on a ball thats barely clicking top of off stump. It did not help Indias chase got pushed to next day after rain. Rain + over cast conditions made it 'advantage NZ'. A peak 1999 PAK team was bundled out for 132 in similar conditions. A peak west indies could not change 183. Its so unfortunate that the innings got pushed to the next day.

2023 ODI semis- 100+ kohli's 50th century. why are you silent on this?
2023 ODI final - 53 runs

No fool averages selectively on knock outs. You are bragging about dhonis world cup 100. whats his average in world cup knock out matches? As i said, dhoni was blessed to have support of yuvraj/raina/sachin/sehwag specially trio of yuvraj, raina and dhoni, himself..Add gambhir to the list.

Kohli got unlucky in 2023 ODI final that instead of duo of rishab pant/hardik pandaya he had duo of **** KL rahul ,Jadeja.

Greatness/being called GOAT is cumulative impact of across formats, not just one odd world cup knock that may fit haters.

Great players are meant to step up when it matters
Ponting
Bevan
Etc all did

Kohli dint though? That’s the issue

You can’t average 29 in ko stages and claim you are the best

Again with the strawman logic. Did I ever mention dhoni? I don’t rate dhoni that highly but even he has a match winning knock in a final compared to kohli

So now we are celebrating a paltry score of 35 lol???
35
Oh right ok

History won’t look at see if it was umpire’s call or not

It’s about whether you win or not

Only in India cricketers are treated like celebrities

That’s why Aus has more titles than us. We glorify these stat passers. We are the second best in cricket but we could easily match Aus if we select on merit and not worship these players like they are some kind of gods

Yes Rohit is a choker too in odi. He caused the unrest and the collapse later on

Yes we did miss Pandya and pant. Would have been a different story if they played

But there is still enough evidence to suggest that kohli chokes under pressure in key games at the World Cup events for odi

I don’t see how that changes

 

[mikeypbadana86]

He won’t be able to shut me until he helps us win a title

He failed at the end of the day to take us home.

We won’t need him cause we have better players in the reserve

unfortunately he is too big that no ex cricketers or passionate haters will be able to do nothing . Shubman gill on current form > kohli. did he not fail in 2023 ODI final? KL rahul flopped, surya flopped, jadeja flopped. Cricket in knock outs is all mental resilience, kohli has tons of it. He is too big a brand that media hate/social media hate can do nothing.

 

[kron]

unfortunately he is too big that no ex cricketers or passionate haters will be able to do nothing . Shubman gill on current form > kohli. did he not fail in 2023 ODI final? KL rahul flopped, surya flopped, jadeja flopped. Cricket in knock outs is all mental resilience, kohli has tons of it. He is too big a brand that media hate/social media hate can do nothing.

i want gill thrown out too
i dont like mental midgets
gill, rahul shouldnt play
unless we win champions trophy
they have had many failures too

jadeja too flopped but he is fit. ideally i dont want him in the future. we can replace him. he is fine for now.

 

[mikeypbadana86]

Great players are meant to step up when it matters
Ponting
Bevan
Etc all did

Kohli dint though? That’s the issue

You can’t average 29 in ko stages and claim you are the best

Again with the strawman logic. Did I ever mention dhoni? I don’t rate dhoni that highly but even he has a match winning knock in a final compared to kohli

So now we are celebrating a paltry score of 35 lol???
35
Oh right ok

History won’t look at see if it was umpire’s call or not

It’s about whether you win or not

Only in India cricketers are treated like celebrities

That’s why Aus has more titles than us. We glorify these stat passers. We are the second best in cricket but we could easily match Aus if we select on merit and not worship these players like they are some kind of gods

Yes Rohit is a choker too in odi. He caused the unrest and the collapse later on

Yes we did miss Pandya and pant. Would have been a different story if they played

But there is still enough evidence to suggest that kohli chokes under pressure in key games at the World Cup events for odi

I don’t see how that changes

Great players are meant to step up when it matters
Ponting
Bevan
Etc all did

Its a bloody catch of Surya kumar yadav which helped india win a world cup despite hardik/pandya/kohli stepping up. when you say lara carried the burden of poor team, ponting/bevan were part of a great aussie team which won on team merit.
Lets taken an instance of pointings superb century in 2011 ODI world cup quarter final in which he stepped up ( as per your definition) where as dhoni did not step up. Despite this, India won with aus losing. Its others around who needed to step up.
Kohli did step up in a world cup final scoring a well made half century with strike rate of 86. Had KL rahul too stepped up with similar strike rate, India would have scored 275 and it was game on.

So now we are celebrating a paltry score of 35 lol???
35
Oh right ok
I am following your rule of "decent score" which helps in winning.

History won’t look at see if it was umpire’s call or not
It’s about whether you win or not

out of 3 ICC tournaments India won which Kohli was part of,Kohli top scored in two of them. History does not care that he failed in the other ICC tournament specially when ODI cricket is on decline.

Only in India cricketers are treated like celebrities
This is the issue with the system/specific countries making hero worship/cult status as an innate cultural apsect . No one cared to receive or shower heroic welcome to patt cumins where our cricket heroes treated like demi god had to endure burden of expectation of 1 billion people. The great lara said he treated cricket as entreating fans where as sachin took it as responsibility . Ponting/SENA greats never had the burden of expectations to deal with nor the hero worship. Its lot easier when the external stakes are non existent with failure accepted as an outcome.

Following was the crowd reaction when ind lost to SL in 1996 world cup semis




For heavens sake, following is the overall record of kohli in ICC tournaments. Give credit where its due, compare an other indian legend with such record in Knock outs.




Yes Rohit is a choker too in odi. He caused the unrest and the collapse later on
He did.I admire his batsmanship but in knock outs, he had put undue preassure on kohli in 2019 ODI semis, 2023 ODI final(threw it away)

Yes we did miss Pandya and pant. Would have been a different story if they played
Pandya/Pant would have meant India winning and you not having any hate criteria to selectively hate kohli despite his brilliance.

But there is still enough evidence to suggest that kohli chokes under pressure in key games at the World Cup events for odi
I don’t see how that changes
Assume its 1st April 2011, a day before the world cup final.
You would have said, "Sachin despite all his brilliance never won a world cup for INDIA despite playing in 5 world cups".
2nd april 2011 "Sachin is endurance personified winning a world cup in his 6th attempt with gambhir/dhoni/yuvraj winning it for him. He is an ODI legend having scored the highest in 1996 world cup final, 2003 player of the tournament( by your logic, was this a failure since india failed against AUS in final and he failed to step up chasing a mountain of 350)
You said sachin has better ODI knock out record
lets see.
1996 ODI quaerter final. its siddhu + Jadeja
1996 ODI semis. 60 odd runs but india ends up 120/8
1999 -India did not qualify for knock outs
2003 ODI semis. Not sure if sourav won it for India?
2007 - India knocked out
2011 - ODI semis. you care if the team wins or not. If you are not a layman and have cricketing sense you would know, he got dropped 4 times which is called luck * luck * luck * luck
2011 - ODI final ????

you can bring down kohli all you want but the history would not remember online hate. He would go down as the GOAT

 

[kron]

Great players are meant to step up when it matters
Ponting
Bevan
Etc all did

Its a bloody catch of Surya kumar yadav which helped india win a world cup despite hardik/pandya/kohli stepping up. when you say lara carried the burden of poor team, ponting/bevan were part of a great aussie team which won on team merit.
Lets taken an instance of pointings superb century in 2011 ODI world cup quarter final in which he stepped up ( as per your definition) where as dhoni did not step up. Despite this, India won with aus losing. Its others around who needed to step up.
Kohli did step up in a world cup final scoring a well made half century with strike rate of 86. Had KL rahul too stepped up with similar strike rate, India would have scored 275 and it was game on.

So now we are celebrating a paltry score of 35 lol???
35
Oh right ok
I am following your rule of "decent score" which helps in winning.

History won’t look at see if it was umpire’s call or not
It’s about whether you win or not

out of 3 ICC tournaments India won which Kohli was part of,Kohli top scored in two of them. History does not care that he failed in the other ICC tournament specially when ODI cricket is on decline.

Only in India cricketers are treated like celebrities
This is the issue with the system/specific countries making hero worship/cult status as an innate cultural apsect . No one cared to receive or shower heroic welcome to patt cumins where our cricket heroes treated like demi god had to endure burden of expectation of 1 billion people. The great lara said he treated cricket as entreating fans where as sachin took it as responsibility . Ponting/SENA greats never had the burden of expectations to deal with nor the hero worship. Its lot easier when the external stakes are non existent with failure accepted as an outcome.

Following was the crowd reaction when ind lost to SL in 1996 world cup semis

View attachment 151744


For heavens sake, following is the overall record of kohli in ICC tournaments. Give credit where its due, compare an other indian legend with such record in Knock outs.

View attachment 151745


Yes Rohit is a choker too in odi. He caused the unrest and the collapse later on
He did.I admire his batsmanship but in knock outs, he had put undue preassure on kohli in 2019 ODI semis, 2023 ODI final(threw it away)

Yes we did miss Pandya and pant. Would have been a different story if they played
Pandya/Pant would have meant India winning and you not having any hate criteria to selectively hate kohli despite his brilliance.

But there is still enough evidence to suggest that kohli chokes under pressure in key games at the World Cup events for odi
I don’t see how that changes
Assume its 1st April 2011, a day before the world cup final.
You would have said, "Sachin despite all his brilliance never won a world cup for INDIA despite playing in 5 world cups".
2nd april 2011 "Sachin is endurance personified winning a world cup in his 6th attempt with gambhir/dhoni/yuvraj winning it for him. He is an ODI legend having scored the highest in 1996 world cup final, 2003 player of the tournament( by your logic, was this a failure since india failed against AUS in final and he failed to step up chasing a mountain of 350)
You said sachin has better ODI knock out record
lets see.
1996 ODI quaerter final. its siddhu + Jadeja
1996 ODI semis. 60 odd runs but india ends up 120/8
1999 -India did not qualify for knock outs
2003 ODI semis. Not sure if sourav won it for India?
2007 - India knocked out
2011 - ODI semis. you care if the team wins or not. If you are not a layman and have cricketing sense you would know, he got dropped 4 times which is called luck * luck * luck * luck
2011 - ODI final ????

you can bring down kohli all you want but the history would not remember online hate. He would go down as the GOAT

thats why i dont rate sacchhu as one of the best either but..... he is better than kohli
reason being he played for a weaker side. he carried a weaker team to ko stages all the way at times.
kohlis average as mentione din ko stages is poor. he needs to help us win a tournament this time atleast in the champions trophy.

i dont need to bring down kohli. he is a laughing stock mostly in sena countries. no one rates his pointless bilateral knocks vs second string teams.
he needs to show up for once and help india win an important tournament. i agree in 2023, he dint get the help he needed cause we had duds partnering him and we also missed players. but the previous tournaments he did the same. usually only bullies second string attacks

ok you say aus dont have to deal with pressure from their fans
what about in hockey? hardly anyone follows yet australia dominates in hockey until recent times. have you seen the h2h between india and aus in hockey

there isnt much pressure in hockey, yet we havent won a wc or olympic gold since ages?

so its not just pressure from fans thats stopping them.
our cricketers are entitled brats, pampered dolts who are put on a pedestal by dumb fans for no reason.
they choke when it matters despite being overpaid for what they have produced.

its endemic in indian sports culture. there is also corruption ofcourse that needs to be addressed. indian players just fold in pressure games since 2017 regardless whether there is pressure or not. we dont pick on merit. thats the main reason.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Virat has a great record while chasing and it is quote evident that he is one of the best when it comes to chasing. Nobody comes close to him form the current era who matches him atm.

 

[mikeypbadana86]

thats why i dont rate sacchhu as one of the best either but..... he is better than kohli
reason being he played for a weaker side. he carried a weaker team to ko stages all the way at times.
kohlis average as mentione din ko stages is poor. he needs to help us win a tournament this time atleast in the champions trophy.

i dont need to bring down kohli. he is a laughing stock mostly in sena countries. no one rates his pointless bilateral knocks vs second string teams.
he needs to show up for once and help india win an important tournament. i agree in 2023, he dint get the help he needed cause we had duds partnering him and we also missed players. but the previous tournaments he did the same. usually only bullies second string attacks

ok you say aus dont have to deal with pressure from their fans
what about in hockey? hardly anyone follows yet australia dominates in hockey until recent times. have you seen the h2h between india and aus in hockey

there isnt much pressure in hockey, yet we havent won a wc or olympic gold since ages?

so its not just pressure from fans thats stopping them.
our cricketers are entitled brats, pampered dolts who are put on a pedestal by dumb fans for no reason.
they choke when it matters despite being overpaid for what they have produced.

its endemic in indian sports culture. there is also corruption ofcourse that needs to be addressed. indian players just fold in pressure games since 2017 regardless whether there is pressure or not. we dont pick on merit. thats the main reason.

thats why i dont rate sacchhu as one of the best either but..... he is better than kohli
reason being he played for a weaker side. he carried a weaker team to ko stages all the way at times.

A team comprising of ganguly,dravid,sehwag,yuvraj,zaheer in 2003 is no weaker side.

he carried a weaker team to ko stages all the way at times.
not at times since 1996 QF was carried by ajay jaedja and sidhu. He carried in 2003 only which was done by duo of kohli and rohit in 2019 too.

one final question. For argument sake, lets assume kohli chockes in all ICC tournaments including t20, not just ODI. Can you compare any modern great(

i agree in 2023, he dint get the help he needed cause we had duds partnering him and we also missed players.
A player has one memorable semis/final innings in world cup tournies. Imagine Kohli being sorrounded by Junk Rahul in 2023 ODI. You are romanticizing dhonis innings in 2011 which is great by the way, could he have done it alone with out Gambhir?
Check the happenstance/luck factor article. 2019 ODI semis, indias innings got postponed to next day due to onoing rain and overnight rain made NZ favourtie which made it 5/3, do not say pitch conditions do not matter. we lost 2023 ODI final due to pitch doctoring(dug our own grave). Above all, kohli is very unlucky to loose dawan in 2019 ODI semis which meant he would have opened in semis but india ended up opening with mental midget KL RAHUL

so its not just pressure from fans thats stopping them.
our cricketers are entitled brats, pampered dolts who are put on a pedestal by dumb fans for no reason.
they choke when it matters despite being overpaid for what they have produced.

Its for a reason India played most number of finals. The other teams who qualified for finals too competing and trying to win.
Remember the 2019 ODI final NZ vs ENG where it was a tie. Such is the margin in finals. A overthrow goes for a 4 in last over which helped ENG to tie which meant NZ should have won had it not been the case. Luck plays a role.Check this cricinfo article below.

"Head's survival and Iyer's dismissal were not by the batter's design. No player's survival of a false shot is by design. It is a matter of that dreaded thing - luck. In cricket, luck is the accumulation of favourable outcomes for a set of actions to an extent that is significantly different from the average expected outcomes for that set of actions. It is only by accounting for luck that distinctions in skills can be located"

i dont need to bring down kohli. he is a laughing stock mostly in sena countries. no one rates his pointless bilateral knocks vs second string teams.

where? care to check his record in Aus/Eng in Tests overall, in addition to south africa. Is Champions trophy of 2013/2017/2023 which kohli scored in abundance including the semis and finals is meaningless bilateral? No one asked you to rate but the aforementioned contributions. is being player of touranment in 2014 t20 worldcup,2016 t20 world cup, 2023 ODI world cup meaningless?


he needs to show up for once and help india win an important tournament.
Do you agree that kohli top scored in 2013 CT semis and finals and won the CUP for india? ( check cricinfo stats)
Do you agree he scored crucial 100 against pak and 88 against AUS to take india to 2025 CT final?
Is it your own criteria that t20 is garbage hence the entire mumbai crowd turned up to welcome rohit/kohli to a hero's welcome last year?


so its not just pressure from fans thats stopping them.
our cricketers are entitled brats, pampered dolts who are put on a pedestal by dumb fans for no reason.
they choke when it matters despite being overpaid for what they have produced.

You and I are armchair critics behind a computer/mobile. A cricketer chooses cricket as career option ever since he is 10 and dedicates his life. out of 140 crore people, only 11 people get to play for India. You say, they are overpaid?

there isnt much pressure in hockey, yet we havent won a wc or olympic gold since ages?
That got to do with not having strong sport culture unlike the west where kids from young age are encouraged to pursue profession of their choice where as subcontinent its the peer/parental/societal/media pressure in all walks of life. As a nation, sporting culture should be developed at grass root level. Except cricket, no one is encouraged to take up sports in India. You may criticize all you want, India is the second best team after australia in number of ICC tournamanets/overall wins.

Its endemic in indian sports culture. there is also corruption ofcourse that needs to be addressed. indian players just fold in pressure games since 2017 regardless whether there is pressure or not. we dont pick on merit. thats the main reason.

Gill was selected on merit. Surya kumar yadav was selected on merit. Siraj was selected on merit. Bumrah was selected on merit assuming rohit/kohli do not deserve 2023 ODI final. No one was stopping them to perform. Merit alone wont win anything, it got to do with mental fortitude . Federer has far more natural talent than djkovic/nadal but he came up short multiple times in tennis tournament finals against them. Merit/skill is one aspect, ability to absorb/soak preassure and deliver is an other aspect.

Its not easy. A book called "bear foot coach" by mental conditioning coach pady upton who worked for indian team during 2007-2011 world cup says, players despite how ever great/big/reputed tend to commit mental map of errors either recollecting past failure/worrying future failure or over glorifying past success or over romantizing future success. The optimal , best optimal mental zone is being in the present which only few like dhoni/gambhir/Kohli could do/did. At best you can say KOHLI's ODI world cup record is slightly underwhelming compared to his golden standards of t20 knock out performance . Do not discount the fact that 2015 semis and 2023 final, its Aus which had historically dominated India. 2019 NZ semis too had this edge of NZ dominating India historically like India dominating PAK in world cup events. Bit of luck, India would have won either of 2019 NZ or 2023 ODI world cup

 

[mikeypbadana86]

@kron lets wait for sundays champions trophy final.

 

[kron]

@kron lets wait for sundays champions trophy final.

If he scores and helps us win then fine I will change my stance on him. We need to win though. But he needs to show up too. Let’s see

Good performance in semis though.
But see he has always been good at champions trophy. I am talking about world cups though in odi?

Regardless if he does well then yes that does elevate his status.

 

[mikeypbadana86]

If he scores and helps us win then fine I will change my stance on him. We need to win though. But he needs to show up too. Let’s see

Good performance in semis though.
But see he has always been good at champions trophy. I am talking about world cups though in odi?

Regardless if he does well then yes that does elevate his status.

By your own admission, he had always been good in champions trophy and numerous t20 world cups. Definetly not an issue with him being mentally weak in ICC tournaments.

His two significant failures in ICC events in 2015 and 2019.

2015- Its the ruthless aussies who came on top. If you can recall, australia ensured kohlis key scoring areas were prevented, all singles stopped. Kohli was 0 off 12 and had to attack which forced an erroenous pull shot. Agreed, he failed here

2019- Bad luck. No single ODI world cup knock out got pushed to next day due to rain except this one. The condition of pitch changed completely overnight which tilted the balanced match single handedly in favour of NZ. swing in itself is a night mare, add to that "seam off the pitch" due to rain.

 

[shamaan]

The greatest chaser.

 

[kron]

thats why i dont rate sacchhu as one of the best either but..... he is better than kohli
reason being he played for a weaker side. he carried a weaker team to ko stages all the way at times.

A team comprising of ganguly,dravid,sehwag,yuvraj,zaheer in 2003 is no weaker side.

he carried a weaker team to ko stages all the way at times.
not at times since 1996 QF was carried by ajay jaedja and sidhu. He carried in 2003 only which was done by duo of kohli and rohit in 2019 too.

one final question. For argument sake, lets assume kohli chockes in all ICC tournaments including t20, not just ODI. Can you compare any modern great(

i agree in 2023, he dint get the help he needed cause we had duds partnering him and we also missed players.
A player has one memorable semis/final innings in world cup tournies. Imagine Kohli being sorrounded by Junk Rahul in 2023 ODI. You are romanticizing dhonis innings in 2011 which is great by the way, could he have done it alone with out Gambhir?
Check the happenstance/luck factor article. 2019 ODI semis, indias innings got postponed to next day due to onoing rain and overnight rain made NZ favourtie which made it 5/3, do not say pitch conditions do not matter. we lost 2023 ODI final due to pitch doctoring(dug our own grave). Above all, kohli is very unlucky to loose dawan in 2019 ODI semis which meant he would have opened in semis but india ended up opening with mental midget KL RAHUL

so its not just pressure from fans thats stopping them.
our cricketers are entitled brats, pampered dolts who are put on a pedestal by dumb fans for no reason.
they choke when it matters despite being overpaid for what they have produced.

Its for a reason India played most number of finals. The other teams who qualified for finals too competing and trying to win.
Remember the 2019 ODI final NZ vs ENG where it was a tie. Such is the margin in finals. A overthrow goes for a 4 in last over which helped ENG to tie which meant NZ should have won had it not been the case. Luck plays a role.Check this cricinfo article below.

"Head's survival and Iyer's dismissal were not by the batter's design. No player's survival of a false shot is by design. It is a matter of that dreaded thing - luck. In cricket, luck is the accumulation of favourable outcomes for a set of actions to an extent that is significantly different from the average expected outcomes for that set of actions. It is only by accounting for luck that distinctions in skills can be located"

i dont need to bring down kohli. he is a laughing stock mostly in sena countries. no one rates his pointless bilateral knocks vs second string teams.

where? care to check his record in Aus/Eng in Tests overall, in addition to south africa. Is Champions trophy of 2013/2017/2023 which kohli scored in abundance including the semis and finals is meaningless bilateral? No one asked you to rate but the aforementioned contributions. is being player of touranment in 2014 t20 worldcup,2016 t20 world cup, 2023 ODI world cup meaningless?


he needs to show up for once and help india win an important tournament.
Do you agree that kohli top scored in 2013 CT semis and finals and won the CUP for india? ( check cricinfo stats)
Do you agree he scored crucial 100 against pak and 88 against AUS to take india to 2025 CT final?
Is it your own criteria that t20 is garbage hence the entire mumbai crowd turned up to welcome rohit/kohli to a hero's welcome last year?


so its not just pressure from fans thats stopping them.
our cricketers are entitled brats, pampered dolts who are put on a pedestal by dumb fans for no reason.
they choke when it matters despite being overpaid for what they have produced.

You and I are armchair critics behind a computer/mobile. A cricketer chooses cricket as career option ever since he is 10 and dedicates his life. out of 140 crore people, only 11 people get to play for India. You say, they are overpaid?

there isnt much pressure in hockey, yet we havent won a wc or olympic gold since ages?
That got to do with not having strong sport culture unlike the west where kids from young age are encouraged to pursue profession of their choice where as subcontinent its the peer/parental/societal/media pressure in all walks of life. As a nation, sporting culture should be developed at grass root level. Except cricket, no one is encouraged to take up sports in India. You may criticize all you want, India is the second best team after australia in number of ICC tournamanets/overall wins.

Its endemic in indian sports culture. there is also corruption ofcourse that needs to be addressed. indian players just fold in pressure games since 2017 regardless whether there is pressure or not. we dont pick on merit. thats the main reason.

Gill was selected on merit. Surya kumar yadav was selected on merit. Siraj was selected on merit. Bumrah was selected on merit assuming rohit/kohli do not deserve 2023 ODI final. No one was stopping them to perform. Merit alone wont win anything, it got to do with mental fortitude . Federer has far more natural talent than djkovic/nadal but he came up short multiple times in tennis tournament finals against them. Merit/skill is one aspect, ability to absorb/soak preassure and deliver is an other aspect.

Its not easy. A book called "bear foot coach" by mental conditioning coach pady upton who worked for indian team during 2007-2011 world cup says, players despite how ever great/big/reputed tend to commit mental map of errors either recollecting past failure/worrying future failure or over glorifying past success or over romantizing future success. The optimal , best optimal mental zone is being in the present which only few like dhoni/gambhir/Kohli could do/did. At best you can say KOHLI's ODI world cup record is slightly underwhelming compared to his golden standards of t20 knock out performance . Do not discount the fact that 2015 semis and 2023 final, its Aus which had historically dominated India. 2019 NZ semis too had this edge of NZ dominating India historically like India dominating PAK in world cup events. Bit of luck, India would have won either of 2019 NZ or 2023 ODI world cup

You are forgetting something else
Shami don’t play in 2019. He would have ran through nz. He loves bashing nz

Pandya and pant missed 2023

Also dhawan was badly missed in 2019

Guess who dint select shami? Kohli in 2019. Also selecting guys like jhadav and dhongi ? In 2019 ? Really?

Those guys were picked on merit?
I don’t think so

Also dropping Vijay Shankar who actually performed and he could have rolled the ball in swing conditions.

Virats captaincy also cost the title that year.

India is a world class team and the second best cricketing nation in all time history but we could be so much more honestly. We could usurp Australia if we just picked on merit alone and left internal politics aside. That’s my issue.

Yes if you go on fb everyone is tearing apart kohli on social media in the west because he always fails in key tournaments like icc odi world cups in ko stages

But he can changes things around in the final vs nz. Yes it’s not a odi WC but a win here vs arch nemesis nz could change peoples stances in the west regarding his performance in ko games. He needs to help India win though

 

[topspin]

If he scores and helps us win then fine I will change my stance on him. We need to win though. But he needs to show up too. Let’s see

Good performance in semis though.
But see he has always been good at champions trophy. I am talking about world cups though in odi?

Regardless if he does well then yes that does elevate his status.

Bro did you not watching his innings against Pakistan? He's the GOAT in ODIs.

 

[mikeypbadana86]

You are forgetting something else
Shami don’t play in 2019. He would have ran through nz. He loves bashing nz

Pandya and pant missed 2023

Also dhawan was badly missed in 2019

Guess who dint select shami? Kohli in 2019. Also selecting guys like jhadav and dhongi ? In 2019 ? Really?

Those guys were picked on merit?
I don’t think so

Also dropping Vijay Shankar who actually performed and he could have rolled the ball in swing conditions.

Virats captaincy also cost the title that year.

India is a world class team and the second best cricketing nation in all time history but we could be so much more honestly. We could usurp Australia if we just picked on merit alone and left internal politics aside. That’s my issue.

Yes if you go on fb everyone is tearing apart kohli on social media in the west because he always fails in key tournaments like icc odi world cups in ko stages

But he can changes things around in the final vs nz. Yes it’s not a odi WC but a win here vs arch nemesis nz could change peoples stances in the west regarding his performance in ko games. He needs to help India win though

Virats captaincy also cost the title that year.

When you are 5/3 in a world cup semis, no team selection could have corrected that. Since you are talking about merit, Pandya and pant were selected on merit. Youngsters who could have stepped like young inzi in 1992 world cup or how akshar patel stepped up in 2024 t20. Jadhav was rightly in the reserves. Instead of dinesh karthik,probably ambati rayudu but ambati on that semi pitch with ball seaming/swinging? Selection committee, coach and the captain decide the playing 11.

2023 ODI surya kumar yadav lets down rohit sharma, the surya kumar wins us t20 2024 world cup. Player performance is surely up to the player more than the captain doing a mircale with right selection.

Also dropping Vijay Shankar who actually performed and he could have rolled the ball in swing conditions.
Sikhar dhawan was injured so he had to be replaced with a batter. Vijay shankar got a toe crushing yorker in nets.

India is a world class team and the second best cricketing nation in all time history but we could be so much more honestly. We could usurp Australia if we just picked on merit alone and left internal politics aside. That’s my issue.

Players are picked on merit. It appears india performed poorly in ICC tournaments where the margings were very thing with luck playing a factor.

2017 champions trophy final. Fakhar zaman got a lease of life on "no-ball" by bumrah......Bad luck

2019 world cup semis . India's innings getting pushed to next day, heavy rain altering the pitch dynamics. The worst of all, players would have been in right state of mind to chase 241 had it been immediate. Imagine players thinking overnight with excitement/anxiety etc for next days innings with weather tilting the match in newzelands favour. Its never easy with this kind of weather. Great west indies could not chase 183 in 1983 world cup, great pak team of 1999 was all out for 132. No fault of kohli or indian team in this. Sheer bad luck, add shikhar dhawans injury who is more clutch than KL rahul and as good as rohit

2016 t20 world cup semis: Ashwin's two no balls

2023 ODI final: pandya- a big miss rishab pant- if available would have played in place of choker KL RAHUL. pant/pandya would have taken the attack to the aussies with kohli ensuring India getting to 280-290 on the final. Worst of all, why the heck dravid/rohit resort to pitch doctoring? There were exteranal politics in play to host it in slow ahmedabad pitch . It should have been a sporting wicket like 2011 ODI final or could have been hosted in Mumbai.



we definetly could have won 2016 and 2019 for sure which would have meant, India equaling australias record of ICC tournament wins.

Yes if you go on fb everyone is tearing apart kohli on social media in the west because he always fails in key tournaments like icc odi world cups in ko stages

He reversed that in 2024 t20 final, 2023 ODI semis/final, 2025 champions trophy semifinal. A crickter's legay is when he "finishes" his career. Kohli is setting the record straight for good.

if you go on fb everyone is tearing apart kohli on social media in the west because he always fails in key tournaments like icc odi world cups in ko stages
But he can changes things around in the final vs nz.

did not he change this in 2025 champions trophy semis?

Yes it’s not a odi WC but a win here vs arch nemesis nz could change peoples stances in the west regarding his performance in ko games. He needs to help India win though

As much as cricket fans in India are passionate , they have good cricketing sense too. kohli could have done better. They bash Rohit more. bash KL rahul even harder. Online vitriol/social media hate is no benchmark for a player performing or not or proper assement of player.

 

[Bhaijaan]

 

[BouncerGuy]

Do people still have doubts about the fact that Virat is among the top 3 chasers of all time??

 

[kron]

Virats captaincy also cost the title that year.

When you are 5/3 in a world cup semis, no team selection could have corrected that. Since you are talking about merit, Pandya and pant were selected on merit. Youngsters who could have stepped like young inzi in 1992 world cup or how akshar patel stepped up in 2024 t20. Jadhav was rightly in the reserves. Instead of dinesh karthik,probably ambati rayudu but ambati on that semi pitch with ball seaming/swinging? Selection committee, coach and the captain decide the playing 11.

2023 ODI surya kumar yadav lets down rohit sharma, the surya kumar wins us t20 2024 world cup. Player performance is surely up to the player more than the captain doing a mircale with right selection.

Also dropping Vijay Shankar who actually performed and he could have rolled the ball in swing conditions.
Sikhar dhawan was injured so he had to be replaced with a batter. Vijay shankar got a toe crushing yorker in nets.

India is a world class team and the second best cricketing nation in all time history but we could be so much more honestly. We could usurp Australia if we just picked on merit alone and left internal politics aside. That’s my issue.

Players are picked on merit. It appears india performed poorly in ICC tournaments where the margings were very thing with luck playing a factor.

2017 champions trophy final. Fakhar zaman got a lease of life on "no-ball" by bumrah......Bad luck

2019 world cup semis . India's innings getting pushed to next day, heavy rain altering the pitch dynamics. The worst of all, players would have been in right state of mind to chase 241 had it been immediate. Imagine players thinking overnight with excitement/anxiety etc for next days innings with weather tilting the match in newzelands favour. Its never easy with this kind of weather. Great west indies could not chase 183 in 1983 world cup, great pak team of 1999 was all out for 132. No fault of kohli or indian team in this. Sheer bad luck, add shikhar dhawans injury who is more clutch than KL rahul and as good as rohit

2016 t20 world cup semis: Ashwin's two no balls

2023 ODI final: pandya- a big miss rishab pant- if available would have played in place of choker KL RAHUL. pant/pandya would have taken the attack to the aussies with kohli ensuring India getting to 280-290 on the final. Worst of all, why the heck dravid/rohit resort to pitch doctoring? There were exteranal politics in play to host it in slow ahmedabad pitch . It should have been a sporting wicket like 2011 ODI final or could have been hosted in Mumbai.



we definetly could have won 2016 and 2019 for sure which would have meant, India equaling australias record of ICC tournament wins.

Yes if you go on fb everyone is tearing apart kohli on social media in the west because he always fails in key tournaments like icc odi world cups in ko stages

He reversed that in 2024 t20 final, 2023 ODI semis/final, 2025 champions trophy semifinal. A crickter's legay is when he "finishes" his career. Kohli is setting the record straight for good.

if you go on fb everyone is tearing apart kohli on social media in the west because he always fails in key tournaments like icc odi world cups in ko stages
But he can changes things around in the final vs nz.

did not he change this in 2025 champions trophy semis?

Yes it’s not a odi WC but a win here vs arch nemesis nz could change peoples stances in the west regarding his performance in ko games. He needs to help India win though

As much as cricket fans in India are passionate , they have good cricketing sense too. kohli could have done better. They bash Rohit more. bash KL rahul even harder. Online vitriol/social media hate is no benchmark for a player performing or not or proper assement of player.

This is not hate speech. It’s results. It’s in our faces.
His performance has been subpar in key matches in icc World Cup events. Underwhelming infact.

Look at smith how he stepped up in 2015 and helped Aus win the final and semis where he thrashed India. Kohli never had a match winning performance of that calibre. To be called the great you need a stand out performance in a grand final.

Again though he faced a B grade Aus attack. He has always been great at destroying b teams and c level bowling attacks
Could he have scored vs Hazlewood Cummins and starc under pressure in a knock out game? I don’t think so judging by his track record in icc World Cup events. Yes he scored a 50 but that wasn’t good enough. He needed to stay and bat longer and he actually slowed down to score his 50 which put more pressure on our batsmen.

True he performed in t20 and that is great. I am just talking about odi World Cup alone though
Let’s see if he can actually perform in a final and help us win the title. I don’t want to see a match losing effort. That’s not good enough

Great players to be called the greatest you need to help your team win in a key final if you get there.

Yes Sachin too failed plenty as he carried a much weaker bowling attack
Bumrah had the goat Asian pace attack and still failed. That’s the key difference.

Also in 2019 you are forgetting shami and do you know rayudu scored in our series win over nz. He actually performs the best in swing conditions

Shami wasn’t picked by dumb Virat in 2019
Cost us the World Cup

 

[mb3407]

Do people still have doubts about the fact that Virat is among the top 3 chasers of all time??

Top 3? Who are the other two. Virat has to #1. Followed by Dhoni probably

 

[BouncerGuy]

Top 3? Who are the other two. Virat has to #1. Followed by Dhoni probably

Bevan is another guy who was called a great finisher/chaser... Dhoni had some dull moments but he delivered some great finishes.

 

[MP2011]

Look at smith how he stepped up in 2015 and helped Aus win the final and semis where he thrashed India.

To be fair to Kohli, not sure if Smith would have won Australia the SF if Australia were to chase 336 to win the game. 9.9/10 times, teams will fail to chase 330-odd in a WC SF.

Same way Kiwis were dismissed for a paltry score of 170-odd in the finals. That chase was as easy as anything.

 

[MP2011]

Same way, Tendulkar should not be blamed for failing in WC '03 final. That failure was on our bowlers (led by Zaheer) who choked massively that day.

 

[kron]

Bevan is another guy who was called a great finisher/chaser... Dhoni had some dull moments but he delivered some great finishes.

Dhoni averages sub 33 in ko stages in icc odi events and also pretty average overall in odi World Cup events so definitely no

Arvinda da silva
Clive lloyd
Viv richards
Steven smith averages 71 in ko stages what a champion all are ahead

Also Andrew Symons averages 74 in ko stages of icc odi events

You know who is overrated punter and hayden
Both were average in icc odi events overall in terms of average

Barring that one 100 plus score Ponting was pretty bad in ko stages of odi icc events

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Astonishing to see which players Virat Kohli is leading on this chart.

 

[BDfanforever]

Yes, but he seems to be the only one caring about ODIs these days.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Virat Kohli is just 45 runs away from passing Chris Gayle as the all-time leading run-scorer in Champions Trophy history.

 

[mominsaigol]

Astonishing to see which players Virat Kohli is leading on this chart.


View attachment 151834

Head is the best. 3 innings and he's already close to virat who's played in 10.

Head is the goat of finals

 

[jnaveen1980]

There is a local club here which we used to annoy our team a lot. That team is all about singles and twos. Most of them won't look big and strong. Most of them are short statured batsmen. But they had incredible ability to tip and run for 20 to 25 overs straight. It definitely irritated us as much as boundary hitting. Kohli sure must be annoying the opposition with this approach.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Virat is gonna be tested today. His real test will be here and if he fails, India might lose the game also