Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him): The best of all creation and leader of mankind

[BunnyRabbit]

Brother,

There are a few lessons in this Hadeeth:

Sahih Muslim 2541a - The Book of the Merits of the Companions - كتاب فضائل الصحابة رضى الله تعالى عنهم - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

حَدَّثَنَا عُثْمَانُ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، حَدَّثَنَا جَرِيرٌ، عَنِ الأَعْمَشِ، عَنْ أَبِي صَالِحٍ، عَنْ أَبِي، سَعِيدٍ قَالَ كَانَ بَيْنَ خَالِدِ بْنِ الْوَلِيدِ وَبَيْنَ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنِ عَوْفٍ شَىْءٌ فَسَبَّهُ خَالِدٌ فَقَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ لاَ تَسُبُّوا أَحَدًا مِنْ أَصْحَابِي فَإِنَّ أَحَدَكُمْ لَوْ أَنْفَقَ مِثْلَ أُحُدٍ ذَهَبًا مَا أَدْرَكَ مُدَّ أَحَدِهِمْ وَلاَ نَصِيفَهُ ‏"‏ ‏.
​

سَبَّ is Verb II of س ب ب and it could mean "insult, abuse etc.

The Sahaba (may God be pleased with them) were humans and there are many incidents like this recorded in the books of Hadeeth (as you have already pointed out that Muhaditheen recorded these incidents) but the lessons from this Hadeeth is not the Sahaba (may God be pleased with them) but the command of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) which is binding upon everyone and not just the people who were present and addressed to.

And that is why Imam Muslim has added the chapter heading:

باب تَحْرِيمِ سَبِّ الصَّحَابَةِ رضى الله عنهم ‏‏​

Chapter: The Prohibition Of Reviling The Companions (RA)

This Chapter heading is hundreds of years after the Sahaba (may God be pleased with them) so obvious not for them!

Please quote the entirety and the commentary and the context. Since the knowledge of this Hadeeth nobody has interpreted it to mean that the "prohibition" was just for those present, so there are a few issues here:

1. Some dispute occured between the Sahaba (may God be pleased with them)​
2. The knowledge of the incident reached Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)​
3. The ABSOLUTE COMMAND was then issued to Sahaba (may God be pleased with them) and EVERYONE else to not revile the Sahaba (may God be pleased with them)​

I can give you example after example where a command to or due to some action of Sahaba (may God be pleased with them) is binding on all Muslims.

The unanimity not to revile the Sahaba (may God be pleased with them) has reached to the extent that it is part of the creed (belief) of Ahlus Sunnah Wal-Jammah and included by Imam Tahawi (may God be pleased with him) in his Aqeedah and it says:

وَنُحِبُ أَصْحابَ النَّبيِّ وَلا نُفَرِّطُ في حُبِ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمْ، وَلا نَتَبَرَّأُ مِنْ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمْ. وَنُبْغِضُ مَنْ يُبْغِضُهُمْ، وَبغَيْرِ الْحَقِ لا نَذكُرُهُمْ؛ وَنَرى حُبَّهُمْ ديناً وَإِيماناً وَإِحْساناً، وَبُغْضَهُمْ كُفْراً وَشِقاقاً وَنِفاقاً وَطُغْياناً

We love the Companions of the Messenger (may God be pleased with them) of Allah but:

• We do not go to excess in our love for any one individual among them;
• nor do we disown any one of them.
• We hate anyone who hates them or does not speak well of them and
• we only speak well of them.
• Love of them is a part of Islam, part of belief and part of excellent behavior, while hatred of them is unbelief, hypocrisy and rebellion.

The point isn't whether Companions of the Messenger (may God be pleased with them) of Allah made mistakes or not or their human errors are not recorded in the books of Hadeeth, we do not revile or abuse them and it is part of our belief.

You disgree with that belief and that's fine, let us all stand on the day of judgement and answer for our deeds, I am not willing to die on that hill.

this is actually the best post on this thread.

 

[Justcrazy]

I agree with that assertion.

which assertion ?

 

[Justcrazy]

this is actually the best post on this thread.

Yes he is a learned person , but I also replied to his post , a small effort I made , i would like to know your view if possible on that.

 

[LordJames]

Yes , I said that above .

The words were addressed to Khalid directly , but it will imply to everyone . More than that , when prophet clearly said that abusing a Muslim is sin and killing is kufr , that includes everyone , what else can I add ?

I just added the point that shariah laws are for everyone including the sahaba .

The words are not addressed to either Khalid (may God be pleased with him) or to Abdu-Rahman Ibn Auf (may God be pleased with him) OR whoever is present there directly at all and here is why:

1. The singular Verb form II of past tense سَبَّ is يَسُبُّ (He insults)
2. If it was addressed directly to Khalid (may God be pleased with him) it would have been تَسُبُّ (you are insulting) or to be specific لا تَسُبُّ (you two are insulting)
3. If this was addressed to two of them (who are involved in the dispute) it should have been تَسُبَّانِ (you two are insulting)
4. If this was addressed to 2+ people present it should have been تَسُبُّونَ (you all are insulting) thus addressing more then 2 people present because the intention would have been to resolve the dispute (in front) and that's all.
5. Instead, note the Grammar converted to Imperative form

حَدَّثَنَا عُثْمَانُ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، حَدَّثَنَا جَرِيرٌ، عَنِ الأَعْمَشِ، عَنْ أَبِي صَالِحٍ، عَنْ أَبِي، سَعِيدٍ قَالَ كَانَ بَيْنَ خَالِدِ بْنِ الْوَلِيدِ وَبَيْنَ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنِ عَوْفٍ شَىْءٌ فَسَبَّهُ خَالِدٌ فَقَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ لاَ تَسُبُّوا أَحَدًا مِنْ أَصْحَابِي فَإِنَّ أَحَدَكُمْ لَوْ أَنْفَقَ مِثْلَ أُحُدٍ ذَهَبًا مَا أَدْرَكَ مُدَّ أَحَدِهِمْ وَلاَ نَصِيفَهُ ‏"‏ ‏.

Meaning, the entire Muslim Ummah is commanded (until the day of judgement) do not revile the Sahaba. In simpler words, O Muslims (ALL of you until the day of judgement do not revile, abuse or insult my Sahaba (may God be pleased with him).

If you don't agree, please feel free to present your evidence and if you do agree then that's the reason for us holding our tongues against the Sahaba (may God be pleased with them).

Once again, the Sahaba (may God be pleased with them) are not Prophets or sinless or don't make mistakes, we don't believe that at all. The Masters of Hadeeth record each and every incident (mistake, error or whatever you want to call it) but they neither revile nor pass judgement. Not a single Salaf passes judgement on Aisha (may God be pleased with her), they comment on the chains and add other opinions but they do not pass judgement on these incidents.

We, just don't want to pass judgement on the Sahaba and we don't want to answer with our petty and useless judgement against Aisha (may God be pleased with her) or Umar (may God be pleased with him) or Abu-Bakr (may God be pleased with him) or anyone else.

Even simply, our point is:

A large number of Muslims (in 2025) don't even wake up for Fajar so we don't believe that are even equal to the dirt under the shoes of Aisha (may God be pleased with her), let her judge herself and let her answer for her deeds herself!

To everyone:

My advise to you would be "Hold your tongue against the Sahaba (may God be pleased with them)" and worry about yourself because it says in the Qu'raan:

وَلا تَزِرُ وَازِرَةٌ وِزْرَ أُخْرَى

[35:18] No soul burdened with sin will bear the burden of another

Know that great scholars of Islam used to sweat in these matters concerning the Sahaba. If XYZ is discussing it, let them answer for their judgement and words.

this is actually the best post on this thread.

Yes he is a learned person , but I also replied to his post , a small effort I made , i would like to know your view if possible on that.

The unanimity not to revile the Sahaba (may God be pleased with them) has reached to the extent that it is part of the creed (belief) of Ahlus Sunnah Wal-Jammah and included by Imam Tahawi (may God be pleased with him) in his Aqeedah and it says:

وَنُحِبُ أَصْحابَ النَّبيِّ وَلا نُفَرِّطُ في حُبِ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمْ، وَلا نَتَبَرَّأُ مِنْ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمْ. وَنُبْغِضُ مَنْ يُبْغِضُهُمْ، وَبغَيْرِ الْحَقِ لا نَذكُرُهُمْ؛ وَنَرى حُبَّهُمْ ديناً وَإِيماناً وَإِحْساناً، وَبُغْضَهُمْ كُفْراً وَشِقاقاً وَنِفاقاً وَطُغْياناً

We love the Companions of the Messenger (may God be pleased with them) of Allah but:

• We do not go to excess in our love for any one individual among them;
• nor do we disown any one of them.
• We hate anyone who hates them or does not speak well of them and
• we only speak well of them.
• Love of them is a part of Islam, part of belief and part of excellent behavior, while hatred of them is unbelief, hypocrisy and rebellion.

 

[Farhan The Man]

The topic of prophet. Being the best of creation.

Has now transformed to his companions. Also being the best of creation.

If all were hunky dory. Then why'd kill each other. And ones families. Immediately after prophet's death.

Sumfin' is amiss.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

which assertion ?

what you said in the post.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Yes he is a learned person , but I also replied to his post , a small effort I made , i would like to know your view if possible on that.

I am not that learned enough for my view to matter tbh. But I agree with his post. I am not sure if love for them is a part of belief but I think it's part of Islam and excellent behavior but that's just me, and my opinion doesn't really matter in grand scheme of things.

 

[LordJames]

I am not that learned enough for my view to matter tbh. But I agree with his post. I am not sure if love for them is a part of belief but I think it's part of Islam and excellent behavior but that's just me, and my opinion doesn't really matter in grand scheme of things.

The love for the Sahaba is included in the Aqeedah (belief) of Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jammah by Imam Tahawi (may God be pleased with him):

وَنُحِبُ أَصْحابَ النَّبيِّ وَلا نُفَرِّطُ في حُبِ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمْ، وَلا نَتَبَرَّأُ مِنْ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمْ. وَنُبْغِضُ مَنْ يُبْغِضُهُمْ، وَبغَيْرِ الْحَقِ لا نَذكُرُهُمْ؛ وَنَرى حُبَّهُمْ ديناً وَإِيماناً وَإِحْساناً، وَبُغْضَهُمْ كُفْراً وَشِقاقاً وَنِفاقاً وَطُغْياناً

We love the Companions of the Messenger (may God be pleased with them) of Allah but:

• We do not go to excess in our love for any one individual among them;
• nor do we disown any one of them.
• We hate anyone who hates them or does not speak well of them and
• we only speak well of them.
• Love of them is a part of Islam, part of belief and part of excellent behavior, while hatred of them is unbelief, hypocrisy and rebellion.

I do not know about Shia and their core set of beliefs.

 

[Suleiman]

hope @Justcrazy pauses for a second and reflects on the road he’s going down in all this. Fighting this hard to criticize the sahaba is not worth it when you understand the Hadith of Rasul Ullah SAW and his deep love for his sahaba and his warning to not make bhutan or criticism of them. @LordJames explained it better than I could, I do not have that same level of ilm yet, and even if I did I would still never be capable of criticizing the sahaba.

That is all. My job was to call a spade a spade, I’ve done that, now I’ll continue to share ahadith, prophecies and wisdom and real life events of Rasul Ullah SAW In Sha Allah as was the purpose of this thread.

 

[LordJames]

The words are not addressed to either Khalid (may God be pleased with him) or to Abdu-Rahman Ibn Auf (may God be pleased with him) OR whoever is present there directly at all and here is why:

1. The singular Verb form II of past tense سَبَّ is يَسُبُّ (He insults)
2. If it was addressed directly to Khalid (may God be pleased with him) it would have been تَسُبُّ (you are insulting) or to be specific لا تَسُبُّ (you two are insulting)
3. If this was addressed to two of them (who are involved in the dispute) it should have been تَسُبَّانِ (you two are insulting)
4. If this was addressed to 2+ people present it should have been تَسُبُّونَ (you all are insulting) thus addressing more then 2 people present because the intention would have been to resolve the dispute (in front) and that's all.
5. Instead, note the Grammar converted to Imperative form

حَدَّثَنَا عُثْمَانُ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، حَدَّثَنَا جَرِيرٌ، عَنِ الأَعْمَشِ، عَنْ أَبِي صَالِحٍ، عَنْ أَبِي، سَعِيدٍ قَالَ كَانَ بَيْنَ خَالِدِ بْنِ الْوَلِيدِ وَبَيْنَ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنِ عَوْفٍ شَىْءٌ فَسَبَّهُ خَالِدٌ فَقَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ لاَ تَسُبُّوا أَحَدًا مِنْ أَصْحَابِي فَإِنَّ أَحَدَكُمْ لَوْ أَنْفَقَ مِثْلَ أُحُدٍ ذَهَبًا مَا أَدْرَكَ مُدَّ أَحَدِهِمْ وَلاَ نَصِيفَهُ ‏"‏ ‏.

Meaning, the entire Muslim Ummah is commanded (until the day of judgement) do not revile the Sahaba. In simpler words, O Muslims (ALL of you until the day of judgement do not revile, abuse or insult my Sahaba (may God be pleased with him).

If you don't agree, please feel free to present your evidence and if you do agree then that's the reason for us holding our tongues against the Sahaba (may God be pleased with them).

Once again, the Sahaba (may God be pleased with them) are not Prophets or sinless or don't make mistakes, we don't believe that at all. The Masters of Hadeeth record each and every incident (mistake, error or whatever you want to call it) but they neither revile nor pass judgement. Not a single Salaf passes judgement on Aisha (may God be pleased with her), they comment on the chains and add other opinions but they do not pass judgement on these incidents.

We, just don't want to pass judgement on the Sahaba and we don't want to answer with our petty and useless judgement against Aisha (may God be pleased with her) or Umar (may God be pleased with him) or Abu-Bakr (may God be pleased with him) or anyone else.

Even simply, our point is:



To everyone:

My advise to you would be "Hold your tongue against the Sahaba (may God be pleased with them)" and worry about yourself because it says in the Qu'raan:

وَلا تَزِرُ وَازِرَةٌ وِزْرَ أُخْرَى

[35:18] No soul burdened with sin will bear the burden of another

Know that great scholars of Islam used to sweat in these matters concerning the Sahaba. If XYZ is discussing it, let them answer for their judgement and words.





The unanimity not to revile the Sahaba (may God be pleased with them) has reached to the extent that it is part of the creed (belief) of Ahlus Sunnah Wal-Jammah and included by Imam Tahawi (may God be pleased with him) in his Aqeedah and it says:

وَنُحِبُ أَصْحابَ النَّبيِّ وَلا نُفَرِّطُ في حُبِ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمْ، وَلا نَتَبَرَّأُ مِنْ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمْ. وَنُبْغِضُ مَنْ يُبْغِضُهُمْ، وَبغَيْرِ الْحَقِ لا نَذكُرُهُمْ؛ وَنَرى حُبَّهُمْ ديناً وَإِيماناً وَإِحْساناً، وَبُغْضَهُمْ كُفْراً وَشِقاقاً وَنِفاقاً وَطُغْياناً

We love the Companions of the Messenger (may God be pleased with them) of Allah but:

• We do not go to excess in our love for any one individual among them;
• nor do we disown any one of them.
• We hate anyone who hates them or does not speak well of them and
• we only speak well of them.
• Love of them is a part of Islam, part of belief and part of excellent behavior, while hatred of them is unbelief, hypocrisy and rebellion.

@Justcrazy @Suleiman @BunnyRabbit

There is a word missing in a few places.

The words are not addressed to either Khalid (may God be pleased with him) ONLY or to Abdu-Rahman Ibn Auf (may God be pleased with him) ONLY OR whoever is present there ONLY directly at all and here is why...


Sorry about the error.

 

[Justcrazy]

The love for the Sahaba is included in the Aqeedah (belief) of Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jammah by Imam Tahawi (may God be pleased with him):

وَنُحِبُ أَصْحابَ النَّبيِّ وَلا نُفَرِّطُ في حُبِ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمْ، وَلا نَتَبَرَّأُ مِنْ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمْ. وَنُبْغِضُ مَنْ يُبْغِضُهُمْ، وَبغَيْرِ الْحَقِ لا نَذكُرُهُمْ؛ وَنَرى حُبَّهُمْ ديناً وَإِيماناً وَإِحْساناً، وَبُغْضَهُمْ كُفْراً وَشِقاقاً وَنِفاقاً وَطُغْياناً

We love the Companions of the Messenger (may God be pleased with them) of Allah but:

• We do not go to excess in our love for any one individual among them;
• nor do we disown any one of them.
• We hate anyone who hates them or does not speak well of them and
• we only speak well of them.
• Love of them is a part of Islam, part of belief and part of excellent behavior, while hatred of them is unbelief, hypocrisy and rebellion.

I do not know about Shia and their core set of beliefs.

You are free to follow whatever you want, but it is surprising that a group of people get together with certain aqeedahs , which we are bound to follow, like as if it is Quran or hadeeth. My understanding is that, I have seen certain staunch Moulvis of today trying to force these kind of aqeedahs on people and say if you do not believe in them we will eject you from being a sunni.

Do you know, what the irony is, even those who follow those aqeedah scholars (like tahavi, as you mentioned), have given fatwa of kufr on each other. So, imagine what impression would any rational person will have of these people.

 

[Justcrazy]

I am not that learned enough for my view to matter tbh. But I agree with his post. I am not sure if love for them is a part of belief but I think it's part of Islam and excellent behavior but that's just me, and my opinion doesn't really matter in grand scheme of things.

Loving someone does not mean we will try to justify whatever wrong a person does. the shariah law stands for us all. No on e is above the shariah.

And the sahabas themselves also knew that , but unfortunately a kind of false narrative has been made to project each and every companion as great. If we do wrong we are doing sins , if they do wrong , its either ijtehad or mistake.

The prophet said to the companions themselves that they will fight among themselves for this world , and that is exactly what happened. ( I will show references if someone wants ).

Look we all can try to justify these kinds of things , but when we meet someone who knows stuff outside , then we will fall apart. Then we will call the other person , as kafir , shia etc and run away . The best thing always is to accept what the facts are and move on with life.

 

[Justcrazy]

The words are not addressed to either Khalid (may God be pleased with him) or to Abdu-Rahman Ibn Auf (may God be pleased with him) OR whoever is present there directly at all and here is why:

1. The singular Verb form II of past tense سَبَّ is يَسُبُّ (He insults)
2. If it was addressed directly to Khalid (may God be pleased with him) it would have been تَسُبُّ (you are insulting) or to be specific لا تَسُبُّ (you two are insulting)
3. If this was addressed to two of them (who are involved in the dispute) it should have been تَسُبَّانِ (you two are insulting)
4. If this was addressed to 2+ people present it should have been تَسُبُّونَ (you all are insulting) thus addressing more then 2 people present because the intention would have been to resolve the dispute (in front) and that's all.
5. Instead, note the Grammar converted to Imperative form

حَدَّثَنَا عُثْمَانُ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، حَدَّثَنَا جَرِيرٌ، عَنِ الأَعْمَشِ، عَنْ أَبِي صَالِحٍ، عَنْ أَبِي، سَعِيدٍ قَالَ كَانَ بَيْنَ خَالِدِ بْنِ الْوَلِيدِ وَبَيْنَ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنِ عَوْفٍ شَىْءٌ فَسَبَّهُ خَالِدٌ فَقَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ لاَ تَسُبُّوا أَحَدًا مِنْ أَصْحَابِي فَإِنَّ أَحَدَكُمْ لَوْ أَنْفَقَ مِثْلَ أُحُدٍ ذَهَبًا مَا أَدْرَكَ مُدَّ أَحَدِهِمْ وَلاَ نَصِيفَهُ ‏"‏ ‏.

Meaning, the entire Muslim Ummah is commanded (until the day of judgement) do not revile the Sahaba. In simpler words, O Muslims (ALL of you until the day of judgement do not revile, abuse or insult my Sahaba (may God be pleased with him).

If you don't agree, please feel free to present your evidence and if you do agree then that's the reason for us holding our tongues against the Sahaba (may God be pleased with them).

Once again, the Sahaba (may God be pleased with them) are not Prophets or sinless or don't make mistakes, we don't believe that at all. The Masters of Hadeeth record each and every incident (mistake, error or whatever you want to call it) but they neither revile nor pass judgement. Not a single Salaf passes judgement on Aisha (may God be pleased with her), they comment on the chains and add other opinions but they do not pass judgement on these incidents.

We, just don't want to pass judgement on the Sahaba and we don't want to answer with our petty and useless judgement against Aisha (may God be pleased with her) or Umar (may God be pleased with him) or Abu-Bakr (may God be pleased with him) or anyone else.

Even simply, our point is:



To everyone:

My advise to you would be "Hold your tongue against the Sahaba (may God be pleased with them)" and worry about yourself because it says in the Qu'raan:

وَلا تَزِرُ وَازِرَةٌ وِزْرَ أُخْرَى

[35:18] No soul burdened with sin will bear the burden of another

Know that great scholars of Islam used to sweat in these matters concerning the Sahaba. If XYZ is discussing it, let them answer for their judgement and words.





The unanimity not to revile the Sahaba (may God be pleased with them) has reached to the extent that it is part of the creed (belief) of Ahlus Sunnah Wal-Jammah and included by Imam Tahawi (may God be pleased with him) in his Aqeedah and it says:

وَنُحِبُ أَصْحابَ النَّبيِّ وَلا نُفَرِّطُ في حُبِ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمْ، وَلا نَتَبَرَّأُ مِنْ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمْ. وَنُبْغِضُ مَنْ يُبْغِضُهُمْ، وَبغَيْرِ الْحَقِ لا نَذكُرُهُمْ؛ وَنَرى حُبَّهُمْ ديناً وَإِيماناً وَإِحْساناً، وَبُغْضَهُمْ كُفْراً وَشِقاقاً وَنِفاقاً وَطُغْياناً

We love the Companions of the Messenger (may God be pleased with them) of Allah but:

• We do not go to excess in our love for any one individual among them;
• nor do we disown any one of them.
• We hate anyone who hates them or does not speak well of them and
• we only speak well of them.
• Love of them is a part of Islam, part of belief and part of excellent behavior, while hatred of them is unbelief, hypocrisy and rebellion.

I do not get why you are repeating the same thing over and over again ? I much before you have already mentioned that abusing ANY MUSLIM is a sin.

It's a clear sentence in English. In ANY everyone is included. I do not think I abused or insulted anyone here. If you can point it out I will certainly apologize.

Also , are you trying to say that Khalid Bin Walid did not abuse Abdur Rehman ( ashra Muibashra companion ). Sorry for asking this , because since you are bringing in grammar and all into this , I get that impression , I may be wrong.


What do you mean by passing judgement ? If someone is wrong , it is mentioned in hadith we cannot call it wrong ? So , when you are debating someone and make a blanket statement like that what is the point of discussion? You yourself claim that all companions are great , but will not allow any kind of discussions , does that not sound contradictory to you?

Look if you cannot have a discussion on this topic , and wanton to impose rulings like we should not talk on these issues , then no need to reply to me. Create your own happiness and pretend that everything was great between companions , no one is going to burst your bubble. But when you reply to me , I have the right to ask you questions with due respect.

Just trying to shut down people with these kinds of blanket statements is not the right attitude.

 

[Justcrazy]

The topic of prophet. Being the best of creation.

Has now transformed to his companions. Also being the best of creation.

If all were hunky dory. Then why'd kill each other. And ones families. Immediately after prophet's death.

Sumfin' is amiss.

Brother I have answered that before.

Also , prophet does not have a magic wand in his hand with which he will transform everyone. prophets are there to give message of God , not to change hearts.
ook at the brothers of Prophet Yusuf , they were companions of two prophets , did that help them?

 

[Justcrazy]

what you said in the post.

Thanks.

Next time if you find Mr Engineer say something that you do not agree with , let me know , i will ask his close people.

i cannot disclose here , but I have before this asked a few points on his lectures to his close people and they accepted he was wrong in them.

 

[Justcrazy]

hope @Justcrazy pauses for a second and reflects on the road he’s going down in all this. Fighting this hard to criticize the sahaba is not worth it when you understand the Hadith of Rasul Ullah SAW and his deep love for his sahaba and his warning to not make bhutan or criticism of them. @LordJames explained it better than I could, I do not have that same level of ilm yet, and even if I did I would still never be capable of criticizing the sahaba.

That is all. My job was to call a spade a spade, I’ve done that, now I’ll continue to share ahadith, prophecies and wisdom and real life events of Rasul Ullah SAW In Sha Allah as was the purpose of this thread.

You presented three hadeeth , I answered all three .

One was fabricated , one was incomplete , and other one though authentic , it was not relevant. If you have even iota of understanding , you will first answer them .

imagine you making a whole aqeedah on the basis of a fabricated hadeeth.

And now , instead of accepting your mistake , you are talking about these things about me. My fault is that I believe in the hadeeth , and I do not believe in the fake narratives that have been taught to you since childhood.

By The way did james denied that Khalid abused abdur rehman ? he only said that we also are included in that. That is something I have said long before.

 

[LordJames]

I do not get why you are repeating the same thing over and over again ? I much before you have already mentioned that abusing ANY MUSLIM is a sin.

It's a clear sentence in English. In ANY everyone is included. I do not think I abused or insulted anyone here. If you can point it out I will certainly apologize.

Also , are you trying to say that Khalid Bin Walid did not abuse Abdur Rehman ( ashra Muibashra companion ). Sorry for asking this , because since you are bringing in grammar and all into this , I get that impression , I may be wrong.


What do you mean by passing judgement ? If someone is wrong , it is mentioned in hadith we cannot call it wrong ? So , when you are debating someone and make a blanket statement like that what is the point of discussion? You yourself claim that all companions are great , but will not allow any kind of discussions , does that not sound contradictory to you?

Look if you cannot have a discussion on this topic , and wanton to impose rulings like we should not talk on these issues , then no need to reply to me. Create your own happiness and pretend that everything was great between companions , no one is going to burst your bubble. But when you reply to me , I have the right to ask you questions with due respect.

Just trying to shut down people with these kinds of blanket statements is not the right attitude.

I apologize and let me try answering your question in the best manner, I can.

Q: Also , are you trying to say that Khalid Bin Walid did not abuse Abdur Rehman ( ashra Muibashra companion ).

A: No, because that incident occurred.

Lesson from the incident:

Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him) made a mistake and as a result of his mistake everyone (including him) was instructed to "Not Revile/Abuse the Sahaba (may God be pleased with them)".

Wrong take from the incident:

The take from this incident isn't that since Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him) abused someone from the Ashara Mubashara (the blessed 10 companions given glad tidings of paradise) then to abuse them is fair game, the take is that he was chastised for his actions therefore it is not permissible/advised to do so.

Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him) made a mistake! So this incident isn't to permit abusing the companions, rather to disprove permit abusing the companions. That's why Imam Muslim has created a specific chapter heading and then brought in more narrations to affirm his chapter.

باب تَحْرِيمِ سَبِّ الصَّحَابَةِ رضى الله عنهم ‏‏​

Chapter: The Prohibition Of Reviling The Companions (RA)


Q: What do you mean by passing judgement ? If someone is wrong , it is mentioned in hadith we cannot call it wrong ? So , when you are debating someone and make a blanket statement like that what is the point of discussion? You yourself claim that all companions are great , but will not allow any kind of discussions , does that not sound contradictory to you?

A: The issue isn't discussing the companions, the issues are two:

1. Reviling/Abusing the companions
2. Passing Judgement

Q (not from you): Why does Imam Muslim (may God be pleased with him) record this narration? IF we are not meant to discuss this?

A: Imam Muslim (may God be pleased with him) recorded the narration:

1. Never abused any of the particpiants, he simple recorded the narration
2. Never passed judgement on Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him)
3. He then drew the lesson that it is prohibited to abuse the Sahaba (may God be pleased with him)

Q (not from you): The technique of half-hadeething!

Abu Sa'id reported there was some altercation between Khalid b. Walid and Abd al-Rahman b. 'Auf and Khalid reviled him. Thereupon Allah's Messwger (ﷺ) said: None should revile my Companions. for if one amongst you were to spend as much gold as Uhud, it would not amount to as much as one mudd of one of them or half of it. [Muslim]

A: The narration has three parts:

1. Part 1: Two comapanions get into a dispute and 1 of them Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him) abuses the other e.g. Abd al-Rahman b. 'Auf (may God be pleased with him)
2. Part 2: The matter is brought to the attention of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)
3. Part 3: Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) nullifies Part 1 and prohibits abusing/reviling any companion by saying, "None should revile my Companions"

How can someone take Part 1 from a non-Prophet e.g. Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him) and not take Part 3 from Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) who nullifies Part 1 and prohibits abusing/reviling any companion?

Loving someone does not mean we will try to justify whatever wrong a person does. the shariah law stands for us all. No on e is above the shariah.

And the sahabas themselves also knew that , but unfortunately a kind of false narrative has been made to project each and every companion as great. If we do wrong we are doing sins , if they do wrong , its either ijtehad or mistake.

The prophet said to the companions themselves that they will fight among themselves for this world , and that is exactly what happened. ( I will show references if someone wants ).

Look we all can try to justify these kinds of things , but when we meet someone who knows stuff outside , then we will fall apart. Then we will call the other person , as kafir , shia etc and run away . The best thing always is to accept what the facts are and move on with life.

The wrong of Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him) has alredy been nullified and prohibited by Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) himself.

Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him) was never put above Shariah, he was called upon it and the act was prohibited.

1. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) did not disown Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him)
2. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) did not rebuke Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him)
3. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) did not comand the Muslims to disown/rebuke/chastise/endlessly discuss/abuse Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him)

Discuss the narration in its entirety.

You are free to follow whatever you want , but it is surprising that a group of people get together with certain aqeedahs , which we are bound to follow , like as if it is Quran or hadeeth. My understanding is that , I have seen certain staunch Moulvis of today trying to force these kind of aqeedahs on people and say if you do not believe in them we will eject you from being a sunni.

Do you know , what the irony is , even those who follow those aqeedah scholars ( like tahavi , as you mentioned ) , have given fatwa of kufr on each other. So , imagine what impression would any rational person will have of these people.

You have not presented a single evidence in your support from Qur'aan and Sunnah.

1. Please post your understanding on Imam Abū Jaʿfar Aḥmad aṭ-Ṭaḥāwī [853-933]?
2. Please quote Fatwaas of Kuf'r from Imam Abū Jaʿfar Aḥmad aṭ-Ṭaḥāwī [853-933]?
3. Please quote your disagreements on Aqeedah with Imam Abū Jaʿfar Aḥmad aṭ-Ṭaḥāwī [853-933] with clear evidence from Qur'aan and Sunnah?

Please don't post long YouTube videos of someone whom your admire, I am asking you directly about your understanding directly from Qur'aan and Sunnah.

And if I am saying something outside of Qur'aan and Sunnah, please correct me.

You are my Brother and I love you for the sake of Allah Ta'ala.

You presented three hadeeth , I answered all three .

One was fabricated , one was incomplete , and other one though authentic , it was not relevant. If you have even iota of understanding , you will first answer them .

imagine you making a whole aqeedah on the basis of a fabricated hadeeth.

And now , instead of accepting your mistake , you are talking about these things about me. My fault is that I believe in the hadeeth , and I do not believe in the fake narratives that have been taught to you since childhood.

By The way did james denied that Khalid abused abdur rehman ? he only said that we also are included in that. That is something I have said long before.

I am lost here...

 

[Farhan The Man]

prophet does not have a magic wand in his hand with which he will transform everyone.

That is the crux. Bluntly.

Empirically he failed to adjust the arab bedouin mindset. So much so that the direct recipients of his message killed his entire family. Right after he passed away.

Even though these immediate muslims actually understood his teachings. In spoken language of that time.

Yet they retained their merry ways. To date. Proof all around.

 

[Justcrazy]

That is the crux. Bluntly.

Empirically he failed to adjust the arab bedouin mindset. So much so that the direct recipients of his message killed his entire family. Right after he passed away.

Even though these immediate muslims actually his understood his teachings. In spoken language of that time.

Yet they retained their merry ways. To date. Proof all around.

You need to understand the principles of revelation first.

I told you before that not a single companion was involved in the incident of karbala directly .

Second as far as Umar killing Fatima AS is considered, that is not an authentic narration. The authentic one in this regard you can say maximum is that Umar RA threatened. Yes that was wrong. But that does not mean we will multiple all his deeds by zero because of that.

The wrong things done by people after the death of prophet were mostly because of human weakness , and too be honest it is still prevailing today.

For example prophet did not say that after I do these kind of things , so how is prophets teaching questioned here ?

And on the broader note , when you are discussing these things you need to make your stance clear and position known then we can discuss properly.

last comment you objected with me to calling you not Muslim I suppose . That was my assumption from your posts.
You are mixing things up and make random posts. But when someone ask something you never reply.

What is your main issue with ? Is that with Islam , Quran , prophet or Muslims?

 

[Justcrazy]

I apologize and let me try answering your question in the best manner, I can.

Q: Also , are you trying to say that Khalid Bin Walid did not abuse Abdur Rehman ( ashra Muibashra companion ).

A: No, because that incident occurred.

Lesson from the incident:

Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him) made a mistake and as a result of his mistake everyone (including him) was instructed to "Not Revile/Abuse the Sahaba (may God be pleased with them)".

Wrong take from the incident:

The take from this incident isn't that since Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him) abused someone from the Ashara Mubashara (the blessed 10 companions given glad tidings of paradise) then to abuse them is fair game, the take is that he was chastised for his actions therefore it is not permissible/advised to do so.

Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him) made a mistake! So this incident isn't to permit abusing the companions, rather to disprove permit abusing the companions. That's why Imam Muslim has created a specific chapter heading and then brought in more narrations to affirm his chapter.

باب تَحْرِيمِ سَبِّ الصَّحَابَةِ رضى الله عنهم ‏‏​

Chapter: The Prohibition Of Reviling The Companions (RA)


Q: What do you mean by passing judgement ? If someone is wrong , it is mentioned in hadith we cannot call it wrong ? So , when you are debating someone and make a blanket statement like that what is the point of discussion? You yourself claim that all companions are great , but will not allow any kind of discussions , does that not sound contradictory to you?

A: The issue isn't discussing the companions, the issues are two:

1. Reviling/Abusing the companions
2. Passing Judgement

Q (not from you): Why does Imam Muslim (may God be pleased with him) record this narration? IF we are not meant to discuss this?

A: Imam Muslim (may God be pleased with him) recorded the narration:

1. Never abused any of the particpiants, he simple recorded the narration
2. Never passed judgement on Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him)
3. He then drew the lesson that it is prohibited to abuse the Sahaba (may God be pleased with him)

Q (not from you): The technique of half-hadeething!


A: The narration has three parts:

1. Part 1: Two comapanions get into a dispute and 1 of them Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him) abuses the other e.g. Abd al-Rahman b. 'Auf (may God be pleased with him)
2. Part 2: The matter is brought to the attention of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)
3. Part 3: Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) nullifies Part 1 and prohibits abusing/reviling any companion by saying, "None should revile my Companions"

How can someone take Part 1 from a non-Prophet e.g. Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him) and not take Part 3 from Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) who nullifies Part 1 and prohibits abusing/reviling any companion?



The wrong of Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him) has alredy been nullified and prohibited by Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) himself.

Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him) was never put above Shariah, he was called upon it and the act was prohibited.

1. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) did not disown Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him)
2. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) did not rebuke Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him)
3. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) did not comand the Muslims to disown/rebuke/chastise/endlessly discuss/abuse Khalid Ibn Walid (may God be pleased with him)

Discuss the narration in its entirety.



You have not presented a single evidence in your support from Qur'aan and Sunnah.

1. Please post your understanding on Imam Abū Jaʿfar Aḥmad aṭ-Ṭaḥāwī [853-933]?
2. Please quote Fatwaas of Kuf'r from Imam Abū Jaʿfar Aḥmad aṭ-Ṭaḥāwī [853-933]?
3. Please quote your disagreements on Aqeedah with Imam Abū Jaʿfar Aḥmad aṭ-Ṭaḥāwī [853-933] with clear evidence from Qur'aan and Sunnah?

Please don't post long YouTube videos of someone whom your admire, I am asking you directly about your understanding directly from Qur'aan and Sunnah.

And if I am saying something outside of Qur'aan and Sunnah, please correct me.

You are my Brother and I love you for the sake of Allah Ta'ala.



I am lost here...

Brother the point of discussion here is not whether we should abuse companions or not .
The above guy presented a hadith that was not the complete one. I presented the complete hadith. My presentation of hadith was to prove the point that Khalid abused an ashra Mubashra companion. You also agree with that. So what is the issue here?

The lesson you are talking about I mentioned long back , kindly read my previous posts.

The lessons do not change the fact that the incident occured. For example the companions ran away in Uhud , for worldly gains , you may say that Allah forgave them , yes I agree , but will that change the fact that the incident occured ? It is still in the Quran , we cannot take that out. Yes , you may now write a fancy paragraph about its lessons , but does that alter the fact that they disobeyed instructions of the prophet for worldly gains?

The prophet said to Khalid that do not abuse my companions. After that you are saying the prophet did not disown him , what kind of childish arguments are you making ? Why should the prophet disown someone for abusing ? He simply instructed him not to do that. It was an argument among two adults and in the heat of the moment he abused , it was not a big issue.

Why should I quote fatwas from some Tahawi ? Okay let me get it clear , what is your understanding of fatwas ? Do you consider them some kind of revelation? Can you clarify your stance here?


In a nutshell I will tell you something as a humble student , in this context , that is the position of companions , there are several other hadith which will not please people here . Now you will also consider them as authentic , but the point of difference between you and me is that you believe these should not be discussed , whereas I believe whatever is written down we can discuss without passing judgement of heaven and hell for someone.

Now my issue with your stance is very basic , if we put a blanket statement like that , it's wrong for everyone. That means if some barelvis are calling for help for the dead people , will we be quiet about that ? If people are innovative , will we be quiet and not discuss ? If Ahmedis continue to propagate wrong things in the name of islam , and say we cannot speak against Mirza Ghulam Ahmed , will you be neutral there as well. Why is your stance not neutral for the companions against whom Abu bakar fought ? So we have to have the same parameters to judge , if Abu bakar , Umar Uthman are khalifa E rasheed , then Ali also is.

 

[LordJames]

Brother the point of discussion here is not whether we should abuse companions or not .
The above guy presented a hadith that was not the complete one. I presented the complete hadith. My presentation of hadith was to prove the point that Khalid abused an ashra Mubashra companion. You also agree with that. So what is the issue here?

The lesson you are talking about I mentioned long back , kindly read my previous posts.

The lessons do not change the fact that the incident occured. For example the companions ran away in Uhud , for worldly gains , you may say that Allah forgave them , yes I agree , but will that change the fact that the incident occured ? It is still in the Quran , we cannot take that out. Yes , you may now write a fancy paragraph about its lessons , but does that alter the fact that they disobeyed instructions of the prophet for worldly gains?

The prophet said to Khalid that do not abuse my companions. After that you are saying the prophet did not disown him , what kind of childish arguments are you making ? Why should the prophet disown someone for abusing ? He simply instructed him not to do that. It was an argument among two adults and in the heat of the moment he abused , it was not a big issue.

Why should I quote fatwas from some Tahawi ? Okay let me get it clear , what is your understanding of fatwas ? Do you consider them some kind of revelation? Can you clarify your stance here?


In a nutshell I will tell you something as a humble student , in this context , that is the position of companions , there are several other hadith which will not please people here . Now you will also consider them as authentic , but the point of difference between you and me is that you believe these should not be discussed , whereas I believe whatever is written down we can discuss without passing judgement of heaven and hell for someone.

Now my issue with your stance is very basic , if we put a blanket statement like that , it's wrong for everyone. That means if some barelvis are calling for help for the dead people , will we be quiet about that ? If people are innovative , will we be quiet and not discuss ? If Ahmedis continue to propagate wrong things in the name of islam , and say we cannot speak against Mirza Ghulam Ahmed , will you be neutral there as well. Why is your stance not neutral for the companions against whom Abu bakar fought ? So we have to have the same parameters to judge , if Abu bakar , Umar Uthman are khalifa E rasheed , then Ali also is.

I apologize to you because I do not understand what you are trying to say. There are a number of issues which you have raised which I have not even discussed, anywhere at all.

I am asserting that:

• The companions (May be God be pleased with them) are the BEST
• It is forbidden for ALL Muslims to revile/abuse the companions
• The Salaf didn't judge or ascribe blame on the companions. They recorded incidents, they narrated them, they discussed them and deduced rulings from them
• Just because something exists doesn't mean I should discuss it, otherwise what is the meaning of this Hadeeth?

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "He who believes in Allah and the Last Day must either speak good or remain silent." [Muslim].

1. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) did not disown Khalid Ibn Wali (may be God be pleased with him) at all. He corrected a mistake! If you disagree, please provide evidence of Quraan and Sunnah.
2. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)or Allah Ta'ala did not disown anyone who made mistakes in Uhud. Their forgiveness was accepted
3. Do you know who Imam Tahawi (may God be pleased with him) was and what he did? without googling?
4. What Fatwa of his did I present? In fact, whose Fatwaas have I quoted at all?
5. What relevance does any of my discussion has to do with Barelwees or Qadiyanees or anyone else?
6. Are you claiming that because I am "advising caution" in discussing the companions the same caution should be applied to discussing Kuf'r of XYZ?
7. Are you saying that you should judge Abu-Bakr (may God be pleased with Him), Umar (may God be pleased with Him) or any other companions using the same parameters as you would judge me (or anybody else posting)? If that is your stance what is your evidence from Qur'aan and Sunnah for it?

I think, what you are trying to say to me is that when there is a need these matters should be discussed and I think your evidence is this Hadith:

On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: "Part of the perfection of one's Islam is his leaving that which does not concern him." [Tirmidhi]

You are saying that if someone asks or has doubts or has questions then these narrations should be discussed because they are part of Hadeeth collection, otherwise why would they be in Hadeeth collection?

Is that what you have been saying? OR Have I got it wrong? If that is what you are saying we are on the same page and accept my apology.

I have no idea what Fatwa, Barelwee, Mirza Ghulam Ahmed etc have got to do with anything at all so please explain.

 

[Justcrazy]

I apologize to you because I do not understand what you are trying to say. There are a number of issues which you have raised which I have not even discussed, anywhere at all.

I am asserting that:

• The companions (May be God be pleased with them) are the BEST
• It is forbidden for ALL Muslims to revile/abuse the companions
• The Salaf didn't judge or ascribe blame on the companions. They recorded incidents, they narrated them, they discussed them and deduced rulings from them
• Just because something exists doesn't mean I should discuss it, otherwise what is the meaning of this Hadeeth?

1. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) did not disown Khalid Ibn Wali (may be God be pleased with him) at all. He corrected a mistake! If you disagree, please provide evidence of Quraan and Sunnah.
2. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)or Allah Ta'ala did not disown anyone who made mistakes in Uhud. Their forgiveness was accepted
3. Do you know who Imam Tahawi (may God be pleased with him) was and what he did? without googling?
4. What Fatwa of his did I present? In fact, whose Fatwaas have I quoted at all?
5. What relevance does any of my discussion has to do with Barelwees or Qadiyanees or anyone else?
6. Are you claiming that because I am "advising caution" in discussing the companions the same caution should be applied to discussing Kuf'r of XYZ?
7. Are you saying that you should judge Abu-Bakr (may God be pleased with Him), Umar (may God be pleased with Him) or any other companions using the same parameters as you would judge me (or anybody else posting)? If that is your stance what is your evidence from Qur'aan and Sunnah for it?

I think, what you are trying to say to me is that when there is a need these matters should be discussed and I think your evidence is this Hadith:



You are saying that if someone asks or has doubts or has questions then these narrations should be discussed because they are part of Hadeeth collection, otherwise why would they be in Hadeeth collection?

Is that what you have been saying? OR Have I got it wrong? If that is what you are saying we are on the same page and accept my apology.

I have no idea what Fatwa, Barelwee, Mirza Ghulam Ahmed etc have got to do with anything at all so please explain.

Look, it's better we go one point at a time. That will be better for understanding.

But first I would like to clarify a few points and my main points.

First , there are different categories of companions

Second , all companions are just is not correct
Third , companions were involved in sins , wrong things and did care about worldly gains ( I am not saying all )

Fourth , We should accept the hadith as evidence .

Fifth, we will respect the scholars , but we will take fatwas as expert opinions , not as revelations.

Now before I start , I would quickly reply to the hadith you mentioned

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "He who believes in Allah and the Last Day must either speak good or remain silent." [Muslim]

Hadith is related to backbiting , talking about hadith is not backbiting. If you consider it as backbiting, will you say about the muhaddith who wrote rijal books , they are speaking about dead people , saying they had weak memory , were liars etc?

Now , you made your assertions. I agree with the second one you made , so this is resolved.

I answered the last one as well.

The remainder is second and third.

The first you said companions are the best . Now I have some questions regarding this statement. Do you mean all the companions or specific companions? For example ashra Mubashra etc. And secondly does it best mean that they never did anything wrong in their lives ?

 

[LordJames]

Questions:

1. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) did not disown Khalid Ibn Wali (may be God be pleased with him) at all. He corrected a mistake! If you disagree, please provide evidence of Quraan and Sunnah.
2. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)or Allah Ta'ala did not disown anyone who made mistakes in Uhud. Their forgiveness was accepted
3. Do you know who Imam Tahawi (may God be pleased with him) was and what he did? without googling?
4. What Fatwa of his did I present? In fact, whose Fatwaas have I quoted at all?
5. What relevance does any of my discussion has to do with Barelwees or Qadiyanees or anyone else?
6. Are you claiming that because I am "advising caution" in discussing the companions the same caution should be applied to discussing Kuf'r of XYZ?
7. Are you saying that you should judge Abu-Bakr (may God be pleased with Him), Umar (may God be pleased with Him) or any other companions using the same parameters as you would judge me (or anybody else posting)? If that is your stance what is your evidence from Qur'aan and Sunnah for it?

Look, it's better we go one point at a time. That will be better for understanding.

But first I would like to clarify a few points and my main points.

First , there are different categories of companions

Second , all companions are just is not correct
Third , companions were involved in sins , wrong things and did care about worldly gains ( I am not saying all )

Fourth , We should accept the hadith as evidence .

Fifth, we will respect the scholars , but we will take fatwas as expert opinions , not as revelations.

Now before I start , I would quickly reply to the hadith you mentioned

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "He who believes in Allah and the Last Day must either speak good or remain silent." [Muslim]

Hadith is related to backbiting , talking about hadith is not backbiting. If you consider it as backbiting, will you say about the muhaddith who wrote rijal books , they are speaking about dead people , saying they had weak memory , were liars etc?

Now , you made your assertions. I agree with the second one you made , so this is resolved.

I answered the last one as well.

The remainder is second and third.

The first you said companions are the best . Now I have some questions regarding this statement. Do you mean all the companions or specific companions? For example ashra Mubashra etc. And secondly does it best mean that they never did anything wrong in their lives ?

1. Which Fatwa have I quoted or discussed? Please point it out so I can check what I am saying.

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "He who believes in Allah and the Last Day must either speak good or remain silent." [Muslim].

Hadith is related to backbiting

1. Kindly provide evidence from Quraan and Sunnah that this Hadeeth is about backbiting.

The first you said companions are the best . Now I have some questions regarding this statement. Do you mean all the companions or specific companions? For example ashra Mubashra etc. And secondly does it best mean that they never did anything wrong in their lives ?

Please point out where I have said that Sahaba (may God be pleased with them) never did anything wrong in their lives? Please quote me directly as to what I have said on this topic?

Thanks for your time.

 

[Farhan The Man]

You need to understand the principles of revelation first.

You digress. Once again. Empirical facts. Don't care of opinions.

umar kicked the door in fatima's womb. She had a miscarriage. And died a few months after of complications. That is manslaughter in today's civilized world.

She hated both the first and second caliphs. So much so. She forbade their presence from her funeral. Read again. prophet's beloved daughter's funeral.

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:4240​

 

[JaDed]

What are the feelings of Muslim posters here if Prophet(PBUH) was shown in an animation AI video done by a liberal youtuber with inaccurate historical details?

 

[sweep_shot]

.

 

[sweep_shot]

What are the feelings of Muslim posters here if Prophet(PBUH) was shown in an animation AI video done by a liberal youtuber with inaccurate historical details?

Here's an explanation from Reddit why it is not allowed:

In Islam, it’s not just the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)—we actually avoid making images or statues of any prophets, including Jesus (peace be upon him). The idea is to keep the focus on the message, not the messenger’s appearance. There’s a strong concern that once people start creating images, it opens the door to idolizing the person rather than following their teachings.

 

[JaDed]

Here's an explanation from Reddit why it is not allowed:

Thanks, for somewhat similar reasons it’s not allowed in Sikhism for our Gurus.
Yet Dhruv Rathee did it, I personally have no issue with this aspect but him distorting Sikh History upon this.

So he can never be taken seriously.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

What are the feelings of Muslim posters here if Prophet(PBUH) was shown in an animation AI video done by a liberal youtuber with inaccurate historical details?

We would be very angry.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Thanks, for somewhat similar reasons it’s not allowed in Sikhism for our Gurus.
Yet Dhruv Rathee did it, I personally have no issue with this aspect but him distorting Sikh History upon this.

So he can never be taken seriously.

Would a Hindu be aware that Sikhs take this seriously?

I have been to Sikh friends home and they have picture of Guru Nanak and other guru on every wall. I never realised that depiction was wrong.

Is it depiction itself or the historical inaccurate depiction that is the issue for you?

 

[JaDed]

Would a Hindu be aware that Sikhs take this seriously?

I have been to Sikh friends home and they have picture of Guru Nanak and other guru on every wall. I never realised that depiction was wrong.

Is it depiction itself or the historical inaccurate depiction that is the issue for you?

No in Sikhism , the Gurus cannot be Humanised through animation basically no movements etc, no voice depiction.

Personally its distorting the Sikh religious history that’s an issue for me.
Considering he didn’t even know Gurus cannot have any sort of movement of voice depiction also showed his lack of research.

Also I’m a Panjabi Hindu with Sikh cousins so we have always gone to Gurudwaras too, my wedding was in one as well.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

No in Sikhism , the Gurus cannot be Humanised through animation basically no movements etc, no voice depiction.

Personally its distorting the Sikh religious history that’s an issue for me.

Also I’m a Panjabi Hindu with Sikh cousins so we have always gone to Gurudwaras too, my wedding was in one as well.

That makes sense, thanks for the explanation . One should always tread carefully before making religious depictions. It's just better to avoid it.

 

[Suleiman]

What are the feelings of Muslim posters here if Prophet(PBUH) was shown in an animation AI video done by a liberal youtuber with inaccurate historical details?

Absolutely against it. This goes for all prophets peace be upon them. Eg In p much all Muslim countries depiction of Prophet Isa / Jesus peace be upon him is against the law, so movies etc that depict him are banned instantly- let alone Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.

 

[sweep_shot]

Found this hadith recently. It is from Sahih Bukhari.

Sahih al-Bukhari 649 - Call to Prayers (Adhaan) - كتاب الأذان - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

 

[Justcrazy]

You digress. Once again. Empirical facts. Don't care of opinions.

umar kicked the door in fatima's womb. She had a miscarriage. And died a few months after of complications. That is manslaughter in today's civilized world.

She hated both the first and second caliphs. So much so. She forbade their presence from her funeral. Read again. prophet's beloved daughter's funeral.

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:4240​

Its not possible to answer anything unless I understand what your background is. If a sunni is asking questions , we will answer according to them , if shia , then we answer according to that , If atheists are asking we will answer according to that.

Now , if you do not believe in any God or Muhammad as a prophet of god , then these questions are irrelevant. What purpose does it serve ? belief in Allah and his Quran is the main criteria of a Muslim , rest are not part of Iman. the reason why I am discussing these things , is because these people are believers in Islam. these are academic discussions only , its not that whether they agree or disagree with me will affect their Iman. Islam is not about worshiping personalities.

So , if you are here for proper discussions , on any topic , you need to make your stance clear . make your stance clear and then say what you conclude from the hadeeth whatever your point is , then we will discuss that in a rational manner.

 

[Justcrazy]

Found this hadith recently. It is from Sahih Bukhari.

Sahih al-Bukhari 649 - Call to Prayers (Adhaan) - كتاب الأذان - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

View attachment 155480

I sometimes at my work place join the people in salah , i hope i get this reward , though it's not like in Mosque.

 

[sweep_shot]

I sometimes at my work place join the people in salah , i hope i get this reward , though it's not like in Mosque.

That's good.

May we try to pray at the mosques as much as we can.

 

[Justcrazy]

Questions:

1. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) did not disown Khalid Ibn Wali (may be God be pleased with him) at all. He corrected a mistake! If you disagree, please provide evidence of Quraan and Sunnah.
2. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)or Allah Ta'ala did not disown anyone who made mistakes in Uhud. Their forgiveness was accepted
3. Do you know who Imam Tahawi (may God be pleased with him) was and what he did? without googling?
4. What Fatwa of his did I present? In fact, whose Fatwaas have I quoted at all?
5. What relevance does any of my discussion has to do with Barelwees or Qadiyanees or anyone else?
6. Are you claiming that because I am "advising caution" in discussing the companions the same caution should be applied to discussing Kuf'r of XYZ?
7. Are you saying that you should judge Abu-Bakr (may God be pleased with Him), Umar (may God be pleased with Him) or any other companions using the same parameters as you would judge me (or anybody else posting)? If that is your stance what is your evidence from Qur'aan and Sunnah for it?

1. Which Fatwa have I quoted or discussed? Please point it out so I can check what I am saying.

Hadith is related to backbiting

1. Kindly provide evidence from Quraan and Sunnah that this Hadeeth is about backbiting.

Please point out where I have said that Sahaba (may God be pleased with them) never did anything wrong in their lives? Please quote me directly as to what I have said on this topic?

Thanks for your time.

Brother , did you look at my assertions ? What do you think of those , do you agree or disagree with them ?

If you disagree with them , you can give your reasons for that .

As far as your question where did I get the backbiting part , firstly that hadeeth I found in a book , in which the muhaddith has brought it into the chapter which says

The Prohibition of Backbiting and the Commandment of Guarding one's Tongue

Now , you agreed that companions did wrong things as well , so that is exactly what I have said , so what is the argument here ?

Do you want me to answer the seven points you wrote above? If you want i will answer them one point at a time , so that you can have a look at one by one and clarify if you find me wrong ?

is that okay with you?

 

[Justcrazy]

That's good.

May we try to pray at the mosques as much as we can.

Yes , but for that you need Islamic rule not Muslim rule. Unfortunately we do not have that .

 

[Justcrazy]

What are the feelings of Muslim posters here if Prophet(PBUH) was shown in an animation AI video done by a liberal youtuber with inaccurate historical details?

Certainly it would be wrong , because there are no available pictures of Muhammad SAW.

 

[Justcrazy]

Thanks, for somewhat similar reasons it’s not allowed in Sikhism for our Gurus.
Yet Dhruv Rathee did it, I personally have no issue with this aspect but him distorting Sikh History upon this.

So he can never be taken seriously.

Do you mean that having pictures or portraits of Gurus is not allowed?

 

[LordJames]

Brother , did you look at my assertions ? What do you think of those , do you agree or disagree with them ?

If you disagree with them , you can give your reasons for that .

As far as your question where did I get the backbiting part , firstly that hadeeth I found in a book , in which the muhaddith has brought it into the chapter which says

The Prohibition of Backbiting and the Commandment of Guarding one's Tongue

Now , you agreed that companions did wrong things as well , so that is exactly what I have said , so what is the argument here ?

Do you want me to answer the seven points you wrote above? If you want i will answer them one point at a time , so that you can have a look at one by one and clarify if you find me wrong ?

is that okay with you?

Don't worry about the answers, Insha'Allah its not an Exam, I was trying to understand your point because I didn't understand it. I now understand what you are saying but understand what we are saying:

1. Nobody believes that the Sahaba (may God have Mercy on them) are sinless, they are not Prophets.
2. Nevertheless, a Muslim does everything for a reason so if there is a reason and for the pleasure of Allah Ta'ala.
3. Our focus is Dawah (towards Muslims and non-Muslims) and lets figure out the best way.

Appreciate your time

Which book and which chapter are you referring to, btw about backbiting?

 

[Justcrazy]

Don't worry about the answers, Insha'Allah its not an Exam, I was trying to understand your point because I didn't understand it. I now understand what you are saying but understand what we are saying:

1. Nobody believes that the Sahaba (may God have Mercy on them) are sinless, they are not Prophets.
2. Nevertheless, a Muslim does everything for a reason so if there is a reason and for the pleasure of Allah Ta'ala.
3. Our focus is Dawah (towards Muslims and non-Muslims) and lets figure out the best way.

Appreciate your time

Which book and which chapter are you referring to, btw about backbiting?

I am not talking about you but others. I know companions were not prophets but the narrative that is painted everywhere is exactly opposite.

Even Al Bani commented somewhere in context of certain hadeeth that shias consider 12 imams to be sins less , while sunnis are having the same aqeedah about all companions.

When we do a certain wrong thing , it is labeled as sin, when a companion does either it is called as ijtehad or called mistake.
this is a totally wrong way to approach things.

The hadeeth you wrote I found in Riyad as salihin .

 

[Suleiman]

I am not talking about you but others. I know companions were not prophets but the narrative that is painted everywhere is exactly opposite.

Even Al Bani commented somewhere in context of certain hadeeth that shias consider 12 imams to be sins less , while sunnis are having the same aqeedah about all companions.

When we do a certain wrong thing , it is labeled as sin, when a companion does either it is called as ijtehad or called mistake.
this is a totally wrong way to approach things.

The hadeeth you wrote I found in Riyad as salihin .

If this is referring to what I said then you misunderstood me. I never said Sahaba are sinless.

I said that we are no one to pass judgement or criticize their wrongs or rights. And I stand by that. What @LordJames posted from Quran and Hadith echoes the same from what I’ve read following your discussion with him.

Nobody said they are sinless. Them not being sinless and us not criticizing them out of adab of what Rasul Ullah SAW told us are not mutually exclusive

 

[Justcrazy]

If this is referring to what I said then you misunderstood me. I never said Sahaba are sinless.

I said that we are no one to pass judgement or criticize their wrongs or rights. And I stand by that. What @LordJames posted from Quran and Hadith echoes the same from what I’ve read following your discussion with him.

Nobody said they are sinless. Them not being sinless and us not criticizing them out of adab of what Rasul Ullah SAW told us are not mutually exclusive

No I did not mean you . You are talking about what a common lay man says , I met and had discussions on this topic with several people , and I understand where this comes from. We all go through these kinds of phases in our lives when we want to stick to what has been tempered to us.

There was a time I considered shias as out of fold of Islam , but things changed when I did proper study without any bias . I realized that people may be misguided not disbelievers.

I was talking about the scholars , who no longer talk about Islam , but are goal keepers of there sects.

If you agree they are not sinless , and we are also not sinless , then why have that kind of narrative ? If you are saying we cannot criticize them for wrong things , is that exclusive to them only or should we not apply in all cases ? Those who refused to give zakat to Abu bakar were also companions , but the same parameter does not exist .

And the irony of all these discussions here is that we do not even know who qualifies to be a companion !!!
First , it is very clear that entering Islam and having Iman in heart are two different things . Now how will you know about a thing which is ghayab ?

Then the question arises what about so-called companions who became Murtad after death of the prophet ? Because when those ayats which you use for praising the companions , these murtads were in them !

Also , another thing which these scholars overlook is a fact , that being a companion doing wrong is even more bad than we in this generation is doing because if you consider them of higher status than us , then there responsibility also increases. Along with rewards the accountability is also more .

For example look into Quran ( Al Ahzab verse 30 )

O wives of the Prophet! If any of you were to commit a blatant misconduct, the punishment would be doubled for her. And that is easy for Allah

Why does Allah swt say , punishment would be doubled ? The reason is because of their high status , they are not like ordinary women of this ummah.

This is the reason why the prophets said the prophets are tested by god the most because of their status.

 

[JaDed]

Do you mean that having pictures or portraits of Gurus is not allowed?

No motion and voice depiction

 

[LordJames]

I am not talking about you but others. I know companions were not prophets but the narrative that is painted everywhere is exactly opposite.

Even Al Bani commented somewhere in context of certain hadeeth that shias consider 12 imams to be sins less , while sunnis are having the same aqeedah about all companions.

When we do a certain wrong thing , it is labeled as sin, when a companion does either it is called as ijtehad or called mistake.
this is a totally wrong way to approach things.

The hadeeth you wrote I found in Riyad as salihin .

Appreciate your time, brother

1. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) passed away in (roughly) 632
2. Riyadus-Saliheen is a book of Fadhail (virtues) complied by Imam Nawawi (May God have Mercy on him) sometime around 1250, hundreds of years later and it isn't a primary book of Hadeeth. Imam Nawawi is writing about good manners etc and he brings a Hadeeth which is relevant to his topic, wonderful and one of my favorite books
3. BUT, there are several variations and one of them is in Saheeh Bukhari as follows:

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day, should not hurt his neighbor and whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day, should serve his guest generously and whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day, should speak what is good or keep silent." [Bukhari]

This Hadeeth isn't restricted to backbiting and at all times a Muslim should speak good or keep silent, see this

In this hadith, the Prophet (Peace be upon Him) guides us to adhere to Islamic etiquette and morals, which increase closeness and affection among Muslims. He informs us that whoever has complete faith in God, who created him, and believes in the Last Day, to which he will return and on which he will be rewarded for his deeds, should not harm his neighbor, but rather honor him by treating him kindly and gently.

And whoever believes in God and the Last Day, let him honor his guest. Honoring a guest is done by smiling, speaking kindly, and feeding him for three days with whatever he has prepared without being burdensome, so as not to burden him or himself. After the three days, it is considered charity. There are guests whose rights are more deserving, such as a guest who is traveling, he is the one coming from another country, so his rights and honor are more deserving than the visitor from the same country, and not the one coming from a journey.

And whoever believes in God and the Last Day, let him speak good, or remain silent, that is, he should remain silent if he is unable to speak good. This is because man is originally commanded to always speak good, but he warned and emphasized this.

Because the tongue's harms are many, if a person wants to speak, let him think before he speaks. If he knows that it will not result in corruption and will not lead to something forbidden or disliked, then let him speak. But if it is permissible, then safety lies in remaining silent, lest the permissible thing lead to something forbidden or disliked.

The Last Day was mentioned along with faith in God to encourage people to attain reward and be saved from punishment.​

And I need to read this narration and what it means more then anybody else so appreciate the reminder.
​

No I did not mean you . You are talking about what a common lay man says , I met and had discussions on this topic with several people , and I understand where this comes from. We all go through these kinds of phases in our lives when we want to stick to what has been tempered to us.

There was a time I considered shias as out of fold of Islam , but things changed when I did proper study without any bias . I realized that people may be misguided not disbelievers.

I was talking about the scholars , who no longer talk about Islam , but are goal keepers of there sects.

If you agree they are not sinless , and we are also not sinless , then why have that kind of narrative ? If you are saying we cannot criticize them for wrong things , is that exclusive to them only or should we not apply in all cases ? Those who refused to give zakat to Abu bakar were also companions , but the same parameter does not exist .

And the irony of all these discussions here is that we do not even know who qualifies to be a companion !!!
First , it is very clear that entering Islam and having Iman in heart are two different things . Now how will you know about a thing which is ghayab ?

Then the question arises what about so-called companions who became Murtad after death of the prophet ? Because when those ayats which you use for praising the companions , these murtads were in them !

Also , another thing which these scholars overlook is a fact , that being a companion doing wrong is even more bad than we in this generation is doing because if you consider them of higher status than us , then there responsibility also increases. Along with rewards the accountability is also more .

For example look into Quran ( Al Ahzab verse 30 )

O wives of the Prophet! If any of you were to commit a blatant misconduct, the punishment would be doubled for her. And that is easy for Allah

Why does Allah swt say , punishment would be doubled ? The reason is because of their high status , they are not like ordinary women of this ummah.

This is the reason why the prophets said the prophets are tested by god the most because of their status.

Anyone who left Islam isn't even a Muslim let alone a companion (may God be pleased with them) and it has always been well understood.

​

 

[LordJames]

No I did not mean you . You are talking about what a common lay man says , I met and had discussions on this topic with several people , and I understand where this comes from. We all go through these kinds of phases in our lives when we want to stick to what has been tempered to us.

There was a time I considered shias as out of fold of Islam , but things changed when I did proper study without any bias . I realized that people may be misguided not disbelievers.

I was talking about the scholars , who no longer talk about Islam , but are goal keepers of there sects.

If you agree they are not sinless , and we are also not sinless , then why have that kind of narrative ? If you are saying we cannot criticize them for wrong things , is that exclusive to them only or should we not apply in all cases ? Those who refused to give zakat to Abu bakar were also companions , but the same parameter does not exist .

And the irony of all these discussions here is that we do not even know who qualifies to be a companion !!!
First , it is very clear that entering Islam and having Iman in heart are two different things . Now how will you know about a thing which is ghayab ?

Then the question arises what about so-called companions who became Murtad after death of the prophet ? Because when those ayats which you use for praising the companions , these murtads were in them !

Also , another thing which these scholars overlook is a fact , that being a companion doing wrong is even more bad than we in this generation is doing because if you consider them of higher status than us , then there responsibility also increases. Along with rewards the accountability is also more .

For example look into Quran ( Al Ahzab verse 30 )

O wives of the Prophet! IF any of you were to commit a blatant misconduct, the punishment would be doubled for her. And that is easy for Allah

Why does Allah swt say , punishment would be doubled ? The reason is because of their high status , they are not like ordinary women of this ummah.

This is the reason why the prophets said the prophets are tested by god the most because of their status.

Brother,

I think someone has told you something OR you have read or heard something and you are running with it without verification.

Nobody in the history of Islam has considered someone who apostated (from Islam) a Sahabi (may God be pleased with them). One of the most authentic books on the companions (may God be pleased with them) is "Al-Isabah fi tamyiz al Sahabah" and Al-Hafidh Ibnul-Haj'r Asqalani (may God be pleased with him) explains the term Sahabi on multiple pages before he even begins the actual book.

Clink on the link and read the first 7-8 pages.

In Summary:

1. Nobody considers "apostates" Sahabi
2. Nobody considers those who refused to pay Zakat, Sahabi either

Please help me and provide evidence as to who in the history of Islam has considered an "apostate" a Sahabi? Please quote the author, book and reference.

Made a single word in your translation of the Qu'raan bigger to make a point.

 

[Justcrazy]

No motion and voice depiction

Okay , i thought you were speaking about images as well.

 

[Justcrazy]

Brother,

I think someone has told you something OR you have read or heard something and you are running with it without verification.

Nobody in the history of Islam has considered someone who apostated (from Islam) a Sahabi (may God be pleased with them). One of the most authentic books on the companions (may God be pleased with them) is "Al-Isabah fi tamyiz al Sahabah" and Al-Hafidh Ibnul-Haj'r Asqalani (may God be pleased with him) explains the term Sahabi on multiple pages before he even begins the actual book.

Clink on the link and read the first 7-8 pages.

In Summary:

1. Nobody considers "apostates" Sahabi
2. Nobody considers those who refused to pay Zakat, Sahabi either

Please help me and provide evidence as to who in the history of Islam has considered an "apostate" a Sahabi? Please quote the author, book and reference.

Made a single word in your translation of the Qu'raan bigger to make a point.

No one has said that , but from the definition which the scholars I heard give it implies that.

You yourself say , when the ayats of Quran was revealed those who became Murtad later , at the point of revelation were those people not included in the term companions?

You are just picking up one sentence I am writing , take my post as a whole. I am not a fool not to understand that those people no longer remained in Islam , my point was not to prove them as companions , my point was ambiguity in the definition of companion.

As far as I know different scholars have tried to give different definitions of companions , but when you look at those definitions , each one has a flaw.

By the way I want to ask you a question off topic. Do you know any website that has Ibn Shayba hadeeth book with takhreej ( rulings ) .

 

[Justcrazy]

@LordJames Yes In the riyad us saliheen the hadeeth you mentioned above showed the source to be Muslim.

 

[LordJames]

@LordJames Yes In the riyad us saliheen the hadeeth you mentioned above showed the source to be Muslim.

Sounds right because Imam Nawawi (may God have Mercy on him) wrote the best commentary on Saheeh Muslim so he takes a lot from it in Riyadus-Saliheen

Point still is that the Hadeeth isn't exclusively (or only) about backbiting, read the commentary under Saheeh Muslim from the same author (link given).

No one has said that , but from the definition which the scholars I heard give it implies that.

You yourself say , when the ayats of Quran was revealed those who became Murtad later , at the point of revelation were those people not included in the term companions?

You are just picking up one sentence I am writing , take my post as a whole. I am not a fool not to understand that those people no longer remained in Islam , my point was not to prove them as companions , my point was ambiguity in the definition of companion.

As far as I know different scholars have tried to give different definitions of companions , but when you look at those definitions , each one has a flaw.

By the way I want to ask you a question off topic. Do you know any website that has Ibn Shayba hadeeth book with takhreej ( rulings ) .

One of the best commentaries: https://al-miftah.com/مصنف-ابن-أبي-شيبة/

1. Read the first 130 pages of Volume 1 for what you are after
2. See page 219 of Volume 1 for example of Takhreej of Athaar.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

@Suleiman Bro, we need threads on the mightiest prophets AS as well. (Prophet Ibrahim AS, Prophet Nuh AS, Prophet Musa AS and Prophet Isa AS). I think we muslims don't know how much Prophet Ibrahim AS is adored and significant.

 

[sweep_shot]

@Suleiman Bro, we need threads on the mightiest prophets AS as well. (Prophet Ibrahim AS, Prophet Nuh AS, Prophet Musa AS and Prophet Isa AS). I think we muslims don't know how much Prophet Ibrahim AS is adored and significant.

Agree. That's a good suggestion.

I think we can have one thread for all prophets in Islam (peace be upon them all).

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Agree. That's a good suggestion.

I think we can have one thread for all prophets in Islam (peace be upon them all).

I know I am biased, but I love reading about Prophet Isa AS and the time period of history of that time in addition to his eventual return (my favorite topic)
But knowing how significant Prophet Ibrahim AS is, I am learning about him these days. He was in the heaven closest to the Kaaba during Miraj.
Also, I think the night of Isra and Miraaj is the most important and the most beautiful and enchanting event of history that every Muslim should read about. It's probably my most favorite event of the whole universe lifetime.

 

[sweep_shot]

I know I am biased, but I love reading about Prophet Isa AS and the time period of history of that time in addition to his eventual return (my favorite topic)
But knowing how significant Prophet Ibrahim AS is, I am learning about him these days. He was in the heaven closest to the Kaaba during Miraj.
Also, I think the night of Isra and Miraaj is the most important and the most beautiful and enchanting event of history that every Muslim should read about. It's probably my most favorite event of the whole universe lifetime.

I see.

I want to learn more about earlier prophets (peace be upon them all).

Adam (AS), Idris (AS) etc.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I see.

I want to learn more about earlier prophets (peace be upon them all).

Adam (AS), Idris (AS) etc.

There's a lot of interesting stuff about Prophet Idris AS. Even his death was very different to everyone else.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

This is a beautiful lecture

 

[The Bald Eagle]

I know I am biased, but I love reading about Prophet Isa AS and the time period of history of that time in addition to his eventual return (my favorite topic)
But knowing how significant Prophet Ibrahim AS is, I am learning about him these days. He was in the heaven closest to the Kaaba during Miraj.
Also, I think the night of Isra and Miraaj is the most important and the most beautiful and enchanting event of history that every Muslim should read about. It's probably my most favorite event of the whole universe lifetime.

Prophet Moosa AS journey is too interesting too.... especially when he talked with Almighty on his way to Egypt

 

[Suleiman]

@Suleiman Bro, we need threads on the mightiest prophets AS as well. (Prophet Ibrahim AS, Prophet Nuh AS, Prophet Musa AS and Prophet Isa AS). I think we muslims don't know how much Prophet Ibrahim AS is adored and significant.

100%

Was gonna make one on Prophet Musa AS and had it half typed, but haven’t finished.

But yes, intend to make a thread on each one of the major prophets In Sha Allah.

Though if you want to or any other brothers or sisters here as well, feel free to start em as well, I don’t want to make it seem like I’m hogging that honor for myself lol. Prophet Musa AS and Prophet Ibrahim AS are next and then In Sha Allah Prophets Yaqub, Lut, Saleh, Ismael peace be upon them all

 

[Suleiman]

There's a lot of interesting stuff about Prophet Idris AS. Even his death was very different to everyone else.

Was gonna say. Those kind of interactions the prophets have with the angels is always especial, eg Prophet Musa AS hitting Malik ul Mawt in the eye

 

[Suleiman]

Another blessed Friday to send as much Salawat as possible on the best of all creation, peace be upon him.

 

[Suleiman]

After the prophets peace be upon them will start threads on the Sahaba RA, and then Ashab Al Kahf as well. @BunnyRabbit

There’s brothers here far more knowledgeable than myself on Islam like @Justcrazy or @LordJames

But my goal is to at least create a space where these amazing servants of Allah and leaders of men can be discussed in depth, peace be upon them all.

I just give a couple weeks in between so as much discussion can happen one by one.

 

[Suleiman]

Agree. That's a good suggestion.

I think we can have one thread for all prophets in Islam (peace be upon them all).

Think the main 5 should have their own like BunnyRabbit bro said. So much to be said on them all.

Just look at how long the threads for Prophet Muhammad and Prophet Isa, peace be upon them, are on their own lol.

 

[sweep_shot]

Think the main 5 should have their own like BunnyRabbit bro said. So much to be said on them all.

Just look at how long the threads for Prophet Muhammad and Prophet Isa, peace be upon them, are on their own lol.

Yeah. Good point.

May we learn from the lives of all the prophets (peace be upon them). In sha Allah.

 

[sweep_shot]

These are 25 prophets (peace be upon them) mentioned in Al-Quran:

1. Adam (AS)
2. Idris (AS)
3. Nuh (AS)
4. Hud (AS)
5. Saleh (AS)
6. Ibrahim (AS)
7. Lut (AS)
8. Ismail (AS)
9. Ishaq (AS)
10. Yakub (AS)
11. Yusuf (AS)
12. Ayub (AS)
13. Shuaib (AS)
14. Musa (AS)
15. Harun (AS)
16. Dul-Kifl (AS)
17. Dawud (AS)
18. Suleyman (AS)
19. Ilyas (AS)
20. Al-Yasa (AS)
21. Yunus (AS)
22. Zakaria (AS)
23. Yahya (AS)
24. Isa (AS)
25. Muhammad (SAW).

From this list, I barely know anything about Dul-Kifl (AS) and Al-Yasa (AS). I hope to learn more about them. In sha Allah we will learn together about all of them.

@BunnyRabbit @Suleiman @LordJames

 

[sweep_shot]

These are 25 prophets (peace be upon them) mentioned in Al-Quran:

1. Adam (AS)
2. Idris (AS)
3. Nuh (AS)
4. Hud (AS)
5. Saleh (AS)
6. Ibrahim (AS)
7. Lut (AS)
8. Ismail (AS)
9. Ishaq (AS)
10. Yakub (AS)
11. Yusuf (AS)
12. Ayub (AS)
13. Shuaib (AS)
14. Musa (AS)
15. Harun (AS)
16. Dul-Kifl (AS)
17. Dawud (AS)
18. Suleyman (AS)
19. Ilyas (AS)
20. Al-Yasa (AS)
21. Yunus (AS)
22. Zakaria (AS)
23. Yahya (AS)
24. Isa (AS)
25. Muhammad (SAW).

From this list, I barely know anything about Dul-Kifl (AS) and Al-Yasa (AS). I hope to learn more about them. In sha Allah we will learn together about all of them.

@BunnyRabbit @Suleiman @LordJames

Dhul-Kifl (AS)*

Made a typo.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

These are 25 prophets (peace be upon them) mentioned in Al-Quran:

1. Adam (AS)
2. Idris (AS)
3. Nuh (AS)
4. Hud (AS)
5. Saleh (AS)
6. Ibrahim (AS)
7. Lut (AS)
8. Ismail (AS)
9. Ishaq (AS)
10. Yakub (AS)
11. Yusuf (AS)
12. Ayub (AS)
13. Shuaib (AS)
14. Musa (AS)
15. Harun (AS)
16. Dul-Kifl (AS)
17. Dawud (AS)
18. Suleyman (AS)
19. Ilyas (AS)
20. Al-Yasa (AS)
21. Yunus (AS)
22. Zakaria (AS)
23. Yahya (AS)
24. Isa (AS)
25. Muhammad (SAW).

From this list, I barely know anything about Dul-Kifl (AS) and Al-Yasa (AS). I hope to learn more about them. In sha Allah we will learn together about all of them.

@BunnyRabbit @Suleiman @LordJames

Prophet Zul Kifl (AS) is also known as Ezekiel in English. And Prophet Alyasa AS is known an Elijah.
One interesting thing is Prophet Ibrahim AS was not only just present in the lives of his sons Ishaq AS and Ismaeel AS, but also Prophet Lut AS who was his nephew.
And Prophet Idris AS was Prophet Nooh AS's great grandfather present in his early life (i think, may be wrong though)
We know about Prophet Yusuf AS and Binyamin AS being brothers.
And Prophet Musa AS, Haroon AS and Yusha bin Noon AS at the same time.
There are only 4 Arab Prophets, Prophet Shuaib AS, Prophet Hud AS, Prophet Saleh AS and Prophet Muhammad AS.
Iraq, Assyria, Philistine etc, all of these lands had different ethnicities.
A person who sees the world through the lens of today might think, Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Lebanon etc all are Arab lands but there were totally different ethnicities there back then. Even the languages were different.
Like Prophet Isa AS born and raised in Palestine and Egypt is believed to have spoken Aramaic. It's interesting what language will he speak upon his return as Aramaic is not spoken much now. We don't really know what will be the world language of that time, for example English is the world language of today.

@Suleiman some info nuggets.

 

[LordJames]

These are 25 prophets (peace be upon them) mentioned in Al-Quran:

1. Adam (AS)
2. Idris (AS)
3. Nuh (AS)
4. Hud (AS)
5. Saleh (AS)
6. Ibrahim (AS)
7. Lut (AS)
8. Ismail (AS)
9. Ishaq (AS)
10. Yakub (AS)
11. Yusuf (AS)
12. Ayub (AS)
13. Shuaib (AS)
14. Musa (AS)
15. Harun (AS)
16. Dul-Kifl (AS)
17. Dawud (AS)
18. Suleyman (AS)
19. Ilyas (AS)
20. Al-Yasa (AS)
21. Yunus (AS)
22. Zakaria (AS)
23. Yahya (AS)
24. Isa (AS)
25. Muhammad (SAW).

From this list, I barely know anything about Dul-Kifl (AS) and Al-Yasa (AS). I hope to learn more about them. In sha Allah we will learn together about all of them.

@BunnyRabbit @Suleiman @LordJames

Have you guys ever met any Muslim in your life who is named after Prophet Lut (AS)? I have never met any Muslim of any nationality, ever with that name.

 

[Suleiman]

Have you guys ever met any Muslim in your life who is named after Prophet Lut (AS)? I have never met any Muslim of any nationality, ever with that name.

Me neither. Actually really like the name Hud after Prophet Hud AS. Haven’t met anybody with that name. In Sha Allah will name my son after him.

 

[sweep_shot]

Have you guys ever met any Muslim in your life who is named after Prophet Lut (AS)? I have never met any Muslim of any nationality, ever with that name.

Nope.

It never crossed my mind either. Good question.

 

[sweep_shot]

Prophet Zul Kifl (AS) is also known as Ezekiel in English. And Prophet Alyasa AS is known an Elijah.
One interesting thing is Prophet Ibrahim AS was not only just present in the lives of his sons Ishaq AS and Ismaeel AS, but also Prophet Lut AS who was his nephew.
And Prophet Idris AS was Prophet Nooh AS's great grandfather present in his early life (i think, may be wrong though)
We know about Prophet Yusuf AS and Binyamin AS being brothers.
And Prophet Musa AS, Haroon AS and Yusha bin Noon AS at the same time.
There are only 4 Arab Prophets, Prophet Shuaib AS, Prophet Hud AS, Prophet Saleh AS and Prophet Muhammad AS.
Iraq, Assyria, Philistine etc, all of these lands had different ethnicities.
A person who sees the world through the lens of today might think, Iraq, Syria, Palestine, Lebanon etc all are Arab lands but there were totally different ethnicities there back then. Even the languages were different.
Like Prophet Isa AS born and raised in Palestine and Egypt is believed to have spoken Aramaic. It's interesting what language will he speak upon his return as Aramaic is not spoken much now. We don't really know what will be the world language of that time, for example English is the world language of today.

@Suleiman some info nuggets.

I see. Thanks for sharing.

It was truly a fascinating period.

 

[Justcrazy]

These are 25 prophets (peace be upon them) mentioned in Al-Quran:

1. Adam (AS)
2. Idris (AS)
3. Nuh (AS)
4. Hud (AS)
5. Saleh (AS)
6. Ibrahim (AS)
7. Lut (AS)
8. Ismail (AS)
9. Ishaq (AS)
10. Yakub (AS)
11. Yusuf (AS)
12. Ayub (AS)
13. Shuaib (AS)
14. Musa (AS)
15. Harun (AS)
16. Dul-Kifl (AS)
17. Dawud (AS)
18. Suleyman (AS)
19. Ilyas (AS)
20. Al-Yasa (AS)
21. Yunus (AS)
22. Zakaria (AS)
23. Yahya (AS)
24. Isa (AS)
25. Muhammad (SAW).

From this list, I barely know anything about Dul-Kifl (AS) and Al-Yasa (AS). I hope to learn more about them. In sha Allah we will learn together about all of them.

@BunnyRabbit @Suleiman @LordJames

Is that Yasa ( Number 20 ) same as Youshua ?

Also , Khidhir was a a prophet.

If you could just mention one ayat from where you got the names , and add it in a bracket , it would make the list complete.

 

[Justcrazy]

Sounds right because Imam Nawawi (may God have Mercy on him) wrote the best commentary on Saheeh Muslim so he takes a lot from it in Riyadus-Saliheen

Point still is that the Hadeeth isn't exclusively (or only) about backbiting, read the commentary under Saheeh Muslim from the same author (link given).



One of the best commentaries: https://al-miftah.com/مصنف-ابن-أبي-شيبة/

1. Read the first 130 pages of Volume 1 for what you are after
2. See page 219 of Volume 1 for example of Takhreej of Athaar.

Thanks

 

[sweep_shot]

Is that Yasa ( Number 20 ) same as Youshua ?

Also , Khidhir was a a prophet.

If you could just mention one ayat from where you got the names , and add it in a bracket , it would make the list complete.

Here it is: https://qari.live/blog/prophets-mention-in-quran/.

 

[sweep_shot]

Is that Yasa ( Number 20 ) same as Youshua ?

Also , Khidhir was a a prophet.

If you could just mention one ayat from where you got the names , and add it in a bracket , it would make the list complete.

Here it is: https://qari.live/blog/prophets-mention-in-quran/.

Al-Yasa is apparently Elisha. Peace be upon him.

Source: Quran.com (https://quran.com/38:48/tafsirs/en-tafsir-maarif-ul-quran).

He was mentioned in Surah Sad, verse 48.

==============================

"The Prophet: (al-Yasa`: Elisha) (علیہ السلام)

In verse 48, it was said: وَالْيَسَعَ (and [ remember ] al-Yasa`). Sayyidna al-Yasa (علیہ السلام) is a prophet from among the prophets of Bani Isra'il, peace be upon them all. He has been mentioned in the Qur'an only at two places, once in Surah Al-An` am and then, here in Surah Sad. No details have been mentioned at any of the two places, rather his name appears there as part of a list of the blessed prophets.

Historical chronicles report that he is a cousin of Sayyidna Ilyas (علیہ السلام) and was his deputy. He lived in his company and was made a prophet after him. Details about him appear in the Bible, the Book of Kings I, Chapter 19, and Kings II, Chapter 2, and elsewhere. There he has been mentioned by the name of اِلِیشَع بن سافط (Elisha son of Safit)."

https://quran.com/38:48/tafsirs/en-tafsir-maarif-ul-quran

Surah Sad - 48 - Quran.com

Also remember Ishmael, Elisha, and Ⱬul-Kifl. All are among the best.

quran.com

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Is that Yasa ( Number 20 ) same as Youshua ?

Also , Khidhir was a a prophet.

If you could just mention one ayat from where you got the names , and add it in a bracket , it would make the list complete.

No. Joshua is Prophet Yusha bin Noon AS.
Elijiah is Prophet Alyasa AS.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Is that Yasa ( Number 20 ) same as Youshua ?

Also , Khidhir was a a prophet.

If you could just mention one ayat from where you got the names , and add it in a bracket , it would make the list complete.

Yes Prophet Khizar AS. It is said he is still alive.
The Prophet who was blessed with the knowledge of different time periods, Present and Future.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Al-Yasa is apparently Elisha. Peace be upon him.

Source: Quran.com (https://quran.com/38:48/tafsirs/en-tafsir-maarif-ul-quran).

He was mentioned in Surah Sad, verse 48.

==============================

"The Prophet: (al-Yasa`: Elisha) (علیہ السلام)

In verse 48, it was said: وَالْيَسَعَ (and [ remember ] al-Yasa`). Sayyidna al-Yasa (علیہ السلام) is a prophet from among the prophets of Bani Isra'il, peace be upon them all. He has been mentioned in the Qur'an only at two places, once in Surah Al-An` am and then, here in Surah Sad. No details have been mentioned at any of the two places, rather his name appears there as part of a list of the blessed prophets.

Historical chronicles report that he is a cousin of Sayyidna Ilyas (علیہ السلام) and was his deputy. He lived in his company and was made a prophet after him. Details about him appear in the Bible, the Book of Kings I, Chapter 19, and Kings II, Chapter 2, and elsewhere. There he has been mentioned by the name of اِلِیشَع بن سافط (Elisha son of Safit)."

https://quran.com/38:48/tafsirs/en-tafsir-maarif-ul-quran

Surah Sad - 48 - Quran.com

Also remember Ishmael, Elisha, and Ⱬul-Kifl. All are among the best.

quran.com

And Prophet Yaqub AS was the son of Prophet Ishaq AS.
Prophet Yaqub AS was also known as Israeel which is why it is called Bani Israeel.
And Prophet Yaqub was Prophet Yusuf AS and Prophet Binyamin AS's father, which makes Prophet Ishaq their grandfather and Prophet Ibrahim AS their great grandfather.

 

[Justcrazy]

Yes Prophet Khizar AS. It is said he is still alive.
The Prophet who was blessed with the knowledge of different time periods, Present and Future.

Even his prophet is debated , but from what we know from Quran , he is likely to be a prophet.
I have not personally come across any evidence that he is alive , but I think he is dead. I had evidence , but do not know whether it is authentic or not , but will find out.