Abdullah719
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Are people here seriously defending the rioters?
Who is defending them?
-
Contact the PP Team
Protest against Quran-burning turns violent in Sweden
- Thread starter pakistan cricket fan
- Start date
Who is defending them?
Mesozoic
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Read brother Greenstorm's post which is directly above mine.
And also most posters on the first 2 pages are criticizing the Danish RW but not uttering a word for the rioters.
Rioting/Destroying public property/ causing physical harm to others is a much bigger crime than burning a religious book.
I'd have said the same if the shoe was on the other foot and the book was Gita/Ramayana.
Abdullah719
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People were criticizing the far-right protestors because some seemed to be defending their actions.
Burning a book also has harmful implications if it’s clearly done to incite people, just as freedom of speech has limits. Swedish authorities clearly thought so too.
Abdullah719
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Norway Riots: Anti-Islam riots erupt in Norway after Sweden, copies of Quran torn
After the violent anti-Islam protests in Sweden, its fire has now spread to the neighboring country of Norway. In the Norwegian capital, Oslo, there have been violent demonstrations on Saturday between anti-Islam and Islam supporters. It is being told that the protesters tore copies of the Quran, the holy book of Muslims. These demonstrations were organized by the Norwegian right wing organization Stop Islamization of Norway (SIAN).
These protesters gathered outside the Parliament building in the Norwegian capital, Oslo, and voiced their opposition to the Islamic ideology. It is being told that this demonstration lasted for about two hours. Lars Thorsen, leader of Stop Islamization of Norway, made several anti-Islam statements. He said such things about the Prophet that could pass the Muslim community exasperatingly. During this period the supporters of the organization shouted slogans and sang songs.
A member took out the Quran and tore copies of it
On the other hand, in view of the protests of Stop Islamization of Norway, its opponents also gathered there but the police stopped them taking immediate action. Due to this, both groups remained far away from each other. Meanwhile, a member of Stop Islamization of Norway took out the Quran and tore copies of it. This was seen by the Islam supporters on the other side and the protest became aggressive.
After this, Islam supporters broke the barricades of the police and confronted the supporters of Stop Islamization of Norway. After this there was a fierce fight between the two. However, the police later took strong action and dispersed the protesters. It is being told that one person has been injured in this conflict. Police has arrested a large number of people.
https://pledgetimes.com/norway-riot...-in-norway-after-sweden-copies-of-quran-torn/
After the violent anti-Islam protests in Sweden, its fire has now spread to the neighboring country of Norway. In the Norwegian capital, Oslo, there have been violent demonstrations on Saturday between anti-Islam and Islam supporters. It is being told that the protesters tore copies of the Quran, the holy book of Muslims. These demonstrations were organized by the Norwegian right wing organization Stop Islamization of Norway (SIAN).
These protesters gathered outside the Parliament building in the Norwegian capital, Oslo, and voiced their opposition to the Islamic ideology. It is being told that this demonstration lasted for about two hours. Lars Thorsen, leader of Stop Islamization of Norway, made several anti-Islam statements. He said such things about the Prophet that could pass the Muslim community exasperatingly. During this period the supporters of the organization shouted slogans and sang songs.
A member took out the Quran and tore copies of it
On the other hand, in view of the protests of Stop Islamization of Norway, its opponents also gathered there but the police stopped them taking immediate action. Due to this, both groups remained far away from each other. Meanwhile, a member of Stop Islamization of Norway took out the Quran and tore copies of it. This was seen by the Islam supporters on the other side and the protest became aggressive.
After this, Islam supporters broke the barricades of the police and confronted the supporters of Stop Islamization of Norway. After this there was a fierce fight between the two. However, the police later took strong action and dispersed the protesters. It is being told that one person has been injured in this conflict. Police has arrested a large number of people.
https://pledgetimes.com/norway-riot...-in-norway-after-sweden-copies-of-quran-torn/
Cpt. Rishwat
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Or they could have turned up with 20 copies of the Bible, and perhaps books by Richard Dawkins and Michel Houellebeq and set fire to those. Maybe do it outside a church or a building of significance for Swedish culture. Or maybe a Hindu temple.
King_Kohli
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She is the best Indian actress at this moment.
Her average movies collecting better than so called Bollywood star hero's movies.
Greenstorm
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Indian Muslims should take inspiration from the effort of Muslims in Sweden who staged protest while avoiding the violence part of it (which I clearly condemned in my post).
There is no hypocrisy here.
Muslims, who emerged from a far off desert, swiftly conquered multiple continents, established new civilizations and remained a major world force for 1000+ years. All this was not possible with 'fake bravado'.
Times and tides change but a true momin retains his character.
Cpt. Rishwat
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I don't have any opinion on her acting abilities since we British don't really understand the attraction of Bollywood, but would like to see her assertions about peace loving Hindus put to the test. She claims Hindu scriptures have been used as toilet paper, so I would like to see Hindus showcase their tolerance for all the world to see. Perhaps we could have statues of Ganesh or Hanuman broken and urinated on by peaceful Muslim residents in Mumbai and Hindus could show how to respect their freedom of expression.
Mesozoic
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Cars were set on fire and shop fronts were damaged in the clashes in the southern city of Malmö
Avoiding the violence right ?
Yeah. Try saying that to the poor Uyghurs or the Rohingyas or the Yemenis. Tell them that some Arabs and Turks conquered continents some centuries ago and that should be enough to ease their sufferings. They'll care as much as a Filipino Christian does about the Crusades or other Christian "victories".
thelandofthebravepeople
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Rasmus Paludan is Dane and he is next level right wing. If he said 10% of the things he says about muslims about India. The cow drinkers would go mad.
Abdullah719
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Not everyone was involved in the violence.
—-------------------
Among the spectators, it’s clear that many, perhaps most, of the Muslims among them oppose the riot.
https://www.thelocal.se/20200829/i-...ack-as-normal-i-think-we-will-be-more-divided
Smbhayi
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There should be strict punishment for them whoever spread fake news..
Local.Dada
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Muslim population of Sweden is just 8%.
There seem to be enough youth within this 8% who have time to get offended, take time off from work and partake in violence.
While I respect the sensitivity towards their religion, however how come a lot of Muslim
Youth seem to have time on their hands? In subcontinent I can understand there are a lot of unemployed and useless people from every religion who have lot of time on their hands but even in western countries?
If we have an honest job at times we get insecure asking for time off even for something important but these “overseas” citizens seem to have a lot of time on their hands.
There seem to be enough youth within this 8% who have time to get offended, take time off from work and partake in violence.
While I respect the sensitivity towards their religion, however how come a lot of Muslim
Youth seem to have time on their hands? In subcontinent I can understand there are a lot of unemployed and useless people from every religion who have lot of time on their hands but even in western countries?
If we have an honest job at times we get insecure asking for time off even for something important but these “overseas” citizens seem to have a lot of time on their hands.
Bhaijaan
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Yes but you are talking about India in 2020..Need to ba e realistic. India and Indians right now will do anything to justify their ongoing genocide plans for muslims.
sweep_shot
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Sweden has over 800,000 Muslims. Out of that, maybe a couple hundreds (possibly way less than that) participated in the violence. Are you passing your verdict on all Swedish Muslims based on that?
By your logic, we can find all Indians guilty for your scamming call centers in India. These scammers look to scam many innocent people worldwide.
Furthermore, it is not hard to take a day off from work. People protested for days during BLM protests.
Local.Dada
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I hope you extend the same courtesy and rational thinking when some idiots beat up some villager for consuming beef
sweep_shot
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It goes both ways.
India has great people just like it has criminals and bad people. Same with Muslims.
Cpt. Rishwat
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Was going to say the same thing, there are protests all over the world, strange how folk don't ask similar questions when white people carry out protests in western countries. Not sure if this is just innate inferiority complex or just looking for some reason to vent on Muslims.
Slog
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lol obv they are bad. what were you expecting me to say
glad you didnt make excuses for the beef lynching like some of the other indian posters do
Lol. A lot of Americans also have this perception of Sweden. As someone living in Sweden, acts like these aren’t common although the number of rape cases have slightly increased since 2014. People outside Scandinavia really believe there is a race war going on in Sweden.
DrSchultz
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What's Sweden like for Pakistanis/South Asians living there.
Lonewarrior
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Indian spin doctors at their best .... some on social media are saying that becoz some random white boys got raped and buried into symmetry while Swedish police knowing the culprits and didnt arrest them the right wing did that in retaliation .... so onus is onto muslim ....
before saying this rubbish the indians forgt that they are the swedish police not indian police who are usually accomplice with the criminals ....
before saying this rubbish the indians forgt that they are the swedish police not indian police who are usually accomplice with the criminals ....
JaDed
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Which film?
JaDed
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They just played into the hands of right wing.
ahmedzee
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Absolutely appalled seeing so many indian posters on PP supporting this disturbing event of Quran burning. How do you guys sleep at night ?
Star_Coffee
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Would like to know, if she has stopped going to Hindu temple because Hinduism of 2020 follows far-right radicalized scripture.
Would like to know if she has openly condemned the BJP government for propagating hate speech against Muslims?
Would like to know, how has 2020 Hinduism has become more tolerant of Muslims if killing someone on the suspicion of munching on a steak is tolerance then what is the official definition of tolerance in India since 2020 Hinduism like to "spin" the narrative to make themselves look innocent.
A few years ago, it was a perfect destination for anyone who wanted to get away from their fellow Pakistanis as there were not many Pakistanis in Sweden. But since 2010, there’s been a sharp increase in Pakistanis moving to Sweden. Now, you’ll see many Pakistani festivals like Basant Mela every year. If you love being around other Pakistanis, UK or Norway are much better options.
Overall, Sweden’s probably one of the best nations to live in. Sweden, Norway and Denmark are social democracries (what Bernie Sanders advocates for). A mixed economy which is mostly capitalist but has also embraced some elements of socialism.
Local.Dada
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I don’t think anyone has approved or agrees with such acts.
In fact the point everyone seems to raise is there is no justification for destruction of public property and hurting innocent civilians especially in a so called western and progressive country.
Why are people getting defensive
Star_Coffee
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There is no reason in a progressive society to incite hate, either.
Why are Indians supporting this narrative, particularly, those who reside in western and progressive countries?
Local.Dada
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lol obv they are bad. what were you expecting me to say
glad you didnt make excuses for the beef lynching like some of the other indian posters do
No one made such excuses. those things are criminal behavior no different from a guy committing murder,rape, robbery etc etc. however the spin that is given is that is sponsored by Indian government, Indian public and Hindus in general. That is probably the greatest generalization ever given there are nearly a billion Hindus in India.
On the other hand when it comes to people rioting and in this case not exactly an isolated or rare incident, the blame seems to be oh there a few bad apples, how dare the racist Swedes hurt our religion arguments (once again don’t agree with the burning of the Quran).
Basically that is the hypocrisy that is being highlighted.
Usually not that complicated for the average educated man and I consider myself that as well so that shouldn’t be that tough to understand.
Star_Coffee
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You are contradicting yourself, an average educated person could see it spectacularly.
Local.Dada
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Let me ask you this, For example, how would an Islamic country react had their been a movie criticizing not even the religion but a few mullahs or question some practices by a few in the context of current generation say something like a PK or a Da Vinci code?
Do you think they would make it one of the highest grossing films in their country?
Look religion is a sensitive subject and sure there are people from all religions that get riled up. However the question should be why is this constant pattern always applicable to a group of people.
The mods get super sensitive. My criticism is neither of Islam or the average Muslim doing his job but the fact that no one seems to question this.
One generic statement that this has nothing to do with Islam etc clearly hasn’t done much.
I ask your own question back to you, why aren’t the so called progressive Muslims or Pakistanis do the same?
Local.Dada
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Not sure what the contradiction in my post is but clearly you didn’t get it.
Cpt. Rishwat
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An Indian giving lectures about hypocrisy is quite funny considering that country's history of riots fuelled by religious hatred.
Riots break out in civilised western countries as well by the way, you just have to look at the USA for recent examples. There is no justification for it, we should call it what it is, criminal behaviour. But let's not pretend it is restricted to one set of people based on religion.
Local.Dada
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It has nothing to with western or eastern. In a multi cultural society conflicts will happen.
2 different families living in the same neighborhood might have issues leave alone countries with huge population and various ethnicities and cultures.
Surpringly people leave this rational hat in the closet and forget this logical deduction when it Comes to India, I hope you apply this context with skirmishes in India as well.
I am just pointing to the common factor in these conflicts. No I am not talking about Islam or Muslims but may be there is a lot of unemployment and lack of support system which leaves the youth prone to such activities. You might attack me or my religion or country no problem. Even if what I said makes even 5% of sense to you, then I am alright with that.
Star_Coffee
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As expected.
Muslims are being killed on the suspicion or munching a steak (I am not sure most Muslims can afford it considering their conditions in India), a regular occurrence. Plenty of evidence exists where an elected official from a particular party promotes "hate" against Muslims of India. And, if you were to deny it or make an excuse then you are intentionally being malign to a particular group out of ages of suppressed hate.
The above statement takes the cake, you basically set yourself up, it is quite easy to do so when a person has an ulterior agenda. How many Muslim armies or the term Indian media love to use "Jihadi" have marched toward Sweden.
Conveniently have reserved the "few bad apple" justification for far-right Hinduism but trying to prohibit for a few hundred Muslims in Sweden out of close to 2 billion Muslims.
And I see you conveniently used the word "hypocrisy", do you understand what it means?
Star_Coffee
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First, answer the question that was presented to you before I make an attempt to the yoga move you made with words to dodge a question.
Why are Indians living in western progressive countries supporting incitive hate against Muslims?
Unemployment has nothing to do with crime in Sweden(well, mostly), most crimes are committed by teenage boys living in immigrant-dominated areas who believe that crime is ’cool’. This is a fairly recent phenomenon, look up Swedish rap music and see for yourself how crime is glorified.
10 years ago, immigrant-dominated areas had much lower crime rates even if a lot of them were poor and unemployed.
cricketjoshila
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In last couple of decades violence perpetrated by alleged muslims around the world have been tremendous. This sudden spurt obviously has some reason, that reason has to be found.
cricketjoshila
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Hate speech is dealt with by law. Why is it that rioting is necessary?
sweep_shot
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It was primarily due to ISIS. ISIS is now finished.
Star_Coffee
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So does the rioting while not killing protestors/rioters indiscriminately, the practice that is ignored by Indian police against Muslims and rather cheers by far-right Hinduism in India.
Law is a law.
The original question was and remains to be answered, "Why are Indians supporting this narrative, particularly, those who reside in western and progressive countries?"
sweep_shot
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People can riot for many different reasons. Also, I don't think Swedish Muslims have to answer to someone from India.
In Europe, soccer fans often break stuffs and get involved in fights/riots. We had riots in North America after George Floyd was killed. Riot is not just a Muslim thing.
I am not saying riot is good. I am just saying it is not only Muslims who do it.
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cricketjoshila
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Organisation doesn't matter. The ultimate affect does.
sweep_shot
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Organization matters. Before ISIS, these things were rare worldwide.
Now that ISIS is finished, these terror attacks are happening less and less.
cricketjoshila
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I am not asking a Bangladeshi to answer. Am I?
Also this isnt limited to one incident or one country.
Muslims rioted in Bangalore last week.
A hindu guy Kamlesh tiwari was killed for insulting islam.
Charlie hebdo attacks.
Riots in different countries for danish cartoons and movie regarding the prophet(pbuh).
Multiple instances of muslims rioting in last few years.
sweep_shot
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Charlie Hebdo attack happened in 2015. ISIS was at peak. Most of the incidents you are mentioning happened a few years ago.
Post some recent incidents.
Also, how many Muslim folks were lynched in India recently? Let's see some stats on that.
cricketjoshila
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Its the covid pandemic affect.
sweep_shot
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cricketjoshila
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Muslims just rioted last week in India. They have rioted in Sweden. Last year more than 300 people died in Isis attacks. Thats a stat for you.
cricketjoshila
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Really?last year 300 plus people died.
sweep_shot
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Where?
That SL attack?
It was one incident. My point is, terror attacks have gone down worldwide after ISIS was neutralized.
Star_Coffee
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You are trying to make it seem as if rioting is bad practice and only being practiced by Muslims while ignoring why the riot took place.
Riot by Muslims in India has always been a reaction to far-right Hinduism and will continue to be.
Slog
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You are being close contradictory in your own post.
Also you are giving a wrong comparison when you talk about lynching. lynching HAS the tacit support of the current Indian government. I’m not saying this. See the number of lynching deaths on suspicion of beef pre 2014 and post 2014. Enough documentaries and articles have been made or written by European, American and British publications and media houses which also suggest that the current government. Has a role in the increases
Cpt. Rishwat
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Muslims don't accept insults to the prophet PBUH, or desecration of the Quran. The last couple of decades has seen a large increase in anti-Islamic activity from hostile non-Muslims, and this has often included attacking both of the most cherished and protected sources of the religion as aforementioned.
Thomaskutty
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^ Here is more implicit justification of riots .. lovely.
sweep_shot
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How's that a justification of riot?
If someone calls you names and you hit him, both you and him are guilty. He started it and you reacted. Both are wrong.
Star_Coffee
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Rather explanation.
What is your justification in support of those who are intentionally inciting hate?
Please do not respond with, they have a right to incite hate against a particular group?
People have a right to criticize.
Star_Coffee
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And if you can't tell the difference between criticism and hate then you wouldn't have any issue being islamophobe and rather directly or indirectly promote and support it.
Thomaskutty
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You can lodge a complaint with the police if they have broken the laws. People who engage in this kind of behaviour - riots, arson, murder - over a book are psychologically disturbed.
Cpt. Rishwat
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I gave an considered and polite answer to your hindu compatriot's question, I did not justify anything. Really there is no need even to answer these questions at all, maybe that would be the better option for you.
Star_Coffee
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Would be an excellent option had there been a government that would support and protect against intentionally inciting hate against minorities but that does not exist, in case of, Muslims, particularly in a country, such as, India.
But, again, I asked, why support anyone so adamantly who incite hate?
are you still confusing criticism with hate?
sweep_shot
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Check the links on this thread.
Six people from far-right side got arrested due to inciting racial hatred.
As an Indian, you should focus on cow mob lynching first.
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Thomaskutty
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Who is supporting incitement of hatred? I've already said .. lodge a complaint with the swedish police if a law is broken. I am against the toxic and dangerous concept of blasphemy .. and this is just the latest in a series of events that show the consequences of having such a religious edict .. salman rushdie in 1989, danish cartoons in 2005, charlie hebdo in 2015 etc..
Thomaskutty
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Why would I support cow lynching, I love a juicy beef steak on my plate.
Star_Coffee
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Laws protected all of them against inciting hate.
Star_Coffee
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for*
sweep_shot
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That's great but some of your countrymen may lynch you for that. You may want to watch out. LOL.
sweep_shot
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You forgot to add Indian cow mob lynchings.
We all know what can happen when Muslims try to eat beef in India.
BTW, here are some Swedish laws (found it from their government site: https://www.loc.gov/law/help/freedom-expression/sweden.php):
Local.Dada
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I respect the prophet (pbuh) as well but pretty sure the prophet himself wouldn’t approve of this kind of behavior by his followers of killing innocent people.
So basically these people are idiots and so are the ones who provoked them. However small distinction between an idiot (who does stupid things like the ones provoking ) vs criminals (burning of public property and injuring or in some case killing innocent civilians)
Before you bring equivalence here, not a single Indian defends lynching. There might be denial but no one justifies the act itself. Not even remotely comparable.
You seem to be justifying this. Strange for a guy who flaunts his westernness
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sweep_shot
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Does any Muslim here have supported violence/riot?
I am against all forms of unnecessary violence but I am also against incitements. Both are wrong and both need to be called out.
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Local.Dada
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Firstly beef is available in India in designated locations. Also beef is not a compulsory dietary requirement in Islam but it is a taboo in Hinduism.
Pork is banned in Islam and Hindus don’t eat pork unless it is an acquired taste by someone living in the west. Why is it so difficult to respect the other guys sentiments. Firstly there might have been 1-2 incidents of lynching absolutely. It’s not like Indian intelligence is raiding people’s fridge for beef.
You can try all the equivalences you want but except most Pakistani voices it is universally acknowledged there is no Hindu terrorism neither there are universally designated terrorist grouos with Hindu ideology either.
Misinterpretation, misunderstanding, misinterpretation whatever word you want to use, most terror groups claim to follow a certain religious ideology. Now that is a fact. I can throw quiet a few names.
Also not sure why you want to take that personally.
I know plenty of pious and religious Muslims who are some of the finest people I know. In fact they have always disassociated with such acts.
Anyways this is scary that most people backing this despicable behavior of the rioters themselves live in the west. Don’t know if this is bravery or total confidence because Big brother is always watching/reading but anyway not my problem.
Local.Dada
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So if say person A insults person B’s family, person B goes and burns down his house and hacks his children to death, are they equal?
sweep_shot
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Where did I back the riot? Show evidence please.
Bigboii
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Firstly beef is available in India in designated locations. Also beef is not a compulsory dietary requirement in Islam but it is a taboo in Hinduism.
Pork is banned in Islam and Hindus don’t eat pork unless it is an acquired taste by someone living in the west. Why is it so difficult to respect the other guys sentiments. Firstly there might have been 1-2 incidents of lynching absolutely. It’s not like Indian intelligence is raiding people’s fridge for beef.
You can try all the equivalences you want but except most Pakistani voices it is universally acknowledged there is no Hindu terrorism neither there are universally designated terrorist grouos with Hindu ideology either.
Misinterpretation, misunderstanding, misinterpretation whatever word you want to use, most terror groups claim to follow a certain religious ideology. Now that is a fact. I can throw quiet a few names.
Also not sure why you want to take that personally.
I know plenty of pious and religious Muslims who are some of the finest people I know. In fact they have always disassociated with such acts.
Anyways this is scary that most people backing this despicable behavior of the rioters themselves live in the west. Don’t know if this is bravery or total confidence because Big brother is always watching/reading but anyway not my problem.[/QUOTE]
It's called real democracy where as long as you're a law abiding citizen you can say whatever you want
Freedom of speech
sweep_shot
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This is not regular insult. This is incitement based on racial hatred. It is something that is already illegal in Sweden. You can check here: https://www.loc.gov/law/help/freedom-expression/sweden.php.
sweep_shot
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ROFL.
I haven't written anything illegal. I am simply stating my disapproval of incitement. Besides, incitement is already illegal in Sweden.
I know a lot of Indians treat Muslims like second class citizens in India but I don't live in India.
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Local.Dada
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Neither do I. I have been both a majority in India and a minority in the USA. I have never faced issues because I have kept my religion at home and neither did I care what anyone’s religion is.
And trust me this isn’t even an exaggeration but funny that people from Pakistan and Bangladesh are taunting a country that is probably the biggest melting pot in the world and the worlds largest democracy and on top of it the only country from subcontinent that has some presence in the world in a positive note (relatively speaking of course before people shove the toilets, slums and other rhetoric)
sweep_shot
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Again, nobody taunted Sweden here. We are simply criticizing far-right. You clearly have comprehension issues or you are trolling.
Sweden is a fantastic country and I am sure most Swedes probably don't approve of far-right.
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Its not race hatred, islam is not a race.
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