Protest against Quran-burning turns violent in Sweden

[sweep_shot]

Its not race hatred, islam is not a race.

Their government site says otherwise:

3. Racial Agitation
Sweden has criminalized “hate speech” when it amounts to “racial agitation” (hets mot folkgrupp), defined as ”a statement or other message that is spread and disseminated that threatens, or expresses condescension against, an ethnic group or another group of persons based on race, skin color, national or ethnic origin, faith, sexual orientation, gender, or gender identity or expression.”[32] The provision only protects the enumerated groups of people, and publication of untrue statements in itself is not considered hate speech. It was first introduced in a government bill in 1944 as a response to racial agitation against Jews.[33]

You are an Aussie. You are not from Sweden. I would trust Swedish government website over your irrelevant opinion.

We have already discussed these yesterday and I no longer wish to engage with you further about this topic.

 

[Gilly]

Their government site says otherwise:



You are an Aussie. You are not from Sweden. I would trust Swedish government website over your irrelevant opinion.

We have already discussed these yesterday and I no longer wish to engage with you further about this topic.

Islam is not a race, regardless what any government says,

 

[sweep_shot]

Islam is not a race, regardless what any government says,

You are correct but you are not a representative of Sweden or Swedish government and hence your opinion doesn't mean anything.

Whatever they consider as laws are actual Swedish laws.

 

[Local.Dada]

You are correct but you are not a representative of Sweden or Swedish government and hence your opinion doesn't mean anything.

Whatever they consider as laws are actual Swedish laws.

By the same account neither are you a defender of Islam. You have not given any glowing account of yourself with some of the opinions.

Not a personal attack, you might be a great guy in real life but you are letting emotions get in the way of common sense and basic humanity.

I was sent a video of a Pakistani YouTuber burning the Indian flag, it was offensive but trust me had someone beaten up her family and destroyed her property, I would definitely empathize with that person even though What they did was stupid.

Now if this was a scripture from a museum or something and there were a huge backlash that’s a different thing. It was some ***** or morons claiming that they burnt the holy book. Since you respect Swedish law you and others should have waited for their police to do the needful. If some people were itching to commit crime as an excuse, then it is the classic case of punishment not fitting the crime and in that case people will point out this bizarre logic.

 

[sweep_shot]

By the same account neither are you a defender of Islam. You have not given any glowing account of yourself with some of the opinions.

Not a personal attack, you might be a great guy in real life but you are letting emotions get in the way of common sense and basic humanity.

I was sent a video of a Pakistani YouTuber burning the Indian flag, it was offensive but trust me had someone beaten up her family and destroyed her property, I would definitely empathize with that person even though What they did was stupid.

Now if this was a scripture from a museum or something and there were a huge backlash that’s a different thing. It was some ***** or morons claiming that they burnt the holy book. Since you respect Swedish law you and others should have waited for their police to do the needful. If some people were itching to commit crime as an excuse, then it is the classic case of punishment not fitting the crime and in that case people will point out this bizarre logic.

Yes. Those rioters have broken laws and they should be punished. We have condemned the rioters. I have condemned the rioters. What's the issue here?

If anyone has broken law, he/she should be punished. What else do you want me to say?

 

[sweep_shot]

By the same account neither are you a defender of Islam. You have not given any glowing account of yourself with some of the opinions.

Not a personal attack, you might be a great guy in real life but you are letting emotions get in the way of common sense and basic humanity.

Well, I am a Muslim. I have a right to defend my religion.

I don't think I have shown lack of basic humanity. All I did was condemn far-right which is not illegal in Canada. As a matter of fact, Canada has recently banned multiple far-right groups.

Also, I have shown link to Swedish government site that clearly states incitement law. I am simply stating my views and you are free to disagree with me.

 

[Madplayer]

Yet again we see Indians at the forefront of running a campaign against muslims on social media. Whenever such an incident takes place in any corner of the world, it's the Indians that seem more concerned than the country where the incident takes place.

Right now, Indians form the BIGGEST ORGANISED GROUP OF ISLAMOPHOBES in the entire world.

 

[IAJ]

Yet again we see Indians at the forefront of running a campaign against muslims on social media. Whenever such an incident takes place in any corner of the world, it's the Indians that seem more concerned than the country where the incident takes place.

Right now, Indians form the BIGGEST ORGANISED GROUP OF ISLAMOPHOBES in the entire world.

I have mentioned this before also, whenever there is a topic on Islam going on somehow they just pick up one little thing mentioned about India and you see them just taking over the entire topic.

But in the end you can't blame them either, they are taking advantage of the lack of unity between muslims and throughout history this and the traitors have made things easy for others.

 

[MenInG]

The Foreign Office on Sunday strongly condemned recent incidents in Sweden and Norway in which copies of the Holy Quran were reportedly burnt, saying that "freedom of speech can't justify religious hatred".

In a statement issued on Twitter, FO spokesperson Zahid Hafeez Chaudhri further said:

"The rise of such Islamophobic occurrences goes against the spirit of any religion."

"Ensuring respect for religious beliefs of others is a collective responsibility and is absolutely critical for global peace and prosperity," Chaudhri added.

A day earlier, a riot broke out in the southern Swedish town of Malmo, where at least 300 people had gathered to protest against anti-Islam activities, police said.

Protesters were throwing objects at police officers and car tyres had been set on fire, a police spokesman said. Earlier in the day, a copy of the Quran had been burned in Malmo by right-wing extremists.

The demonstrations had escalated in the same place where the Quran had been burned, the spokesman added.

Daily Aftonbladet said several anti-Islam activities had taken place in Malmo on Friday, including three men kicking a copy of the Quran between them in a public square.

Meanwhile, at an anti-Islam protest on Saturday in Oslo, Sweden — held by the far-right group Stop the Islamisation of Norway (SION) — a protester tore out pages of the Quran and spat on them, Anadolu Agency reported.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1577175/p...mns-desecration-of-quran-in-sweden-and-norway

 

[Sidilicious]

hook, line and sinker for the hard right here

They left the bait out and these idiots took it.

This is why the right wingers in all countries keep on winning.

 

[Sidilicious]

hook, line and sinker for the hard right here

They left the bait out and these idiots took it.

This is why the right wingers in all countries keep on winning.

None of the hard right'ers or the islamists are better than each other. Its only that the hard right seems to have enough brain cells that their crime is rarely very serious and they know which law to stretch and by how much. The violent islamists on the other hand, make the right wingers seem like Einstein. Them resorting to violence ensures that their actions get more coverage than the provocateurs.

 

[Gilly]

hook, line and sinker for the hard right here

They left the bait out and these idiots took it.

This is why the right wingers in all countries keep on winning.

We have a saying and its only coincidence that it involves a pig and is not meant to offend.

"If you fight with a pig it wont matter who wins because you both will end up covered in ****."

Treat the far right with respect and decency and people will soon realize that your intentions are far better than theirs, if you follow their lead then you both come out looking bad.

 

[CricketCartoons]

None of the hard right'ers or the islamists are better than each other. Its only that the hard right seems to have enough brain cells that their crime is rarely very serious and they know which law to stretch and by how much. The violent islamists on the other hand, make the right wingers seem like Einstein. Them resorting to violence ensures that their actions get more coverage than the provocateurs.

You can't label the protestors as islamists. Islamists are those who believe in supremacy of islamic laws/culture and force others to adapt. Here the protestors were reacting to desecration of their holy book. There is no equivalence between those who provoke and those who react. But given how the world operates, one should look at the larger picture when reacting.

 

[Sidilicious]

We have a saying and its only coincidence that it involves a pig and is not meant to offend.

"If you fight with a pig it wont matter who wins because you both will end up covered in ****."

Treat the far right with respect and decency and people will soon realize that your intentions are far better than theirs, if you follow their lead then you both come out looking bad.

Well said. I might not agree with you on a lot of things, but certainly agree with you here. The only way to deal with hard right is to treat them well. Shame them back into their holes by treating them humanely.

 

[Sidilicious]

You can't label the protestors as islamists. Islamists are those who believe in supremacy of islamic laws/culture and force others to adapt. Here the protestors were reacting to desecration of their holy book. There is no equivalence between those who provoke and those who react. But given how the world operates, one should look at the larger picture when reacting.

Obviously, with Islamists, I meant those thugs who resorted to violence. Not the peaceful protesters (which I also dont think add any value).

And what do you think will protesting about a book burnt will do? Will it stop others from burning a book?

Or will it provide the hard right with more ammo to blame the muslims? After the violence, whats the bigger story in the world news? Some idiots burning a book, or a few people resorting to violence?

Sometimes ignoring provocation is the best policy. A clever person knows when to speak when to ignore.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Obviously, with Islamists, I meant those thugs who resorted to violence. Not the peaceful protesters (which I also dont think add any value).

And what do you think will protesting about a book burnt will do? Will it stop others from burning a book?

Or will it provide the hard right with more ammo to blame the muslims? After the violence, whats the bigger story in the world news? Some idiots burning a book, or a few people resorting to violence?

Sometimes ignoring provocation is the best policy. A clever person knows when to speak when to ignore.

A few things are not done just to win, but to show that you were there in the battlefield, that you didn't stay silent when something happened.

 

[cricketjoshila]

You are trying to make it seem as if rioting is bad practice and only being practiced by Muslims while ignoring why the riot took place.

Riot by Muslims in India has always been a reaction to far-right Hinduism and will continue to be.

Which far right hindu did what in Bangalore?

Muslims have done it across nations. Not limited by geography. If some of them think this as power projection, then they are grossly mistaken. Retaliation and reaction will follow once a threshold us crossed. The ordinary law abiding muslim will be the unfortunate collateral damage.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I respect the prophet (pbuh) as well but pretty sure the prophet himself wouldn’t approve of this kind of behavior by his followers of killing innocent people.

So basically these people are idiots and so are the ones who provoked them. However small distinction between an idiot (who does stupid things like the ones provoking ) vs criminals (burning of public property and injuring or in some case killing innocent civilians)

Before you bring equivalence here, not a single Indian defends lynching. There might be denial but no one justifies the act itself. Not even remotely comparable.

You seem to be justifying this. Strange for a guy who flaunts his westernness

Where have I justified it? I specifically expressed that it was criminal behaviour. I don't know if you guys just have a comprehension problem or there is something else playing on your minds.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Islam is not a race, regardless what any government says,

True. Do you think that might be why some rioters take the law into their own hands, as they might feel there is no legislation protecting Muslims as a religious group?

 

[Gilly]

True. Do you think that might be why some rioters take the law into their own hands, as they might feel there is no legislation protecting Muslims as a religious group?

Sweden has laws that protect all religious groups, the crux of the problem is you have to let Swedish law prevail. Far right groups are worried that muslims will not adhere to Swedish laws and operate under islamic law. Thats why they burnt a koran, they are well aware that the public know if they burnt a bible there would be no interest taken by anyone. Other religions have learnt to keep clear of politics and observe Swedish law as the highest law of the land. This stunt by the far right has exposed islam in Sweden rightly or wrongly I have no opinion, that is for Sweden to answer.

Some other factors come into play also like religion being the cause of so much destruction in the middle east, Islam needs to pull away from political events and take a softer approach. It will be extremely hard to get islam accepted across the line in the west whilst involved in politics.

Dont take this as criticism because I'm only trying to be open about what I observe.

Your religion only applies to you, the laws apply to everyone.

 

[Star_Coffee]

Which far right hindu did what in Bangalore?

Muslims have done it across nations. Not limited by geography. If some of them think this as power projection, then they are grossly mistaken. Retaliation and reaction will follow once a threshold us crossed. The ordinary law abiding muslim will be the unfortunate collateral damage.

Your inability to see as to why they've Muslims protested says a lot about your ignorance regarding this matter.

 

[sweep_shot]

Sweden has laws that protect all religious groups, the crux of the problem is you have to let Swedish law prevail. Far right groups are worried that muslims will not adhere to Swedish laws and operate under islamic law. Thats why they burnt a koran, they are well aware that the public know if they burnt a bible there would be no interest taken by anyone. Other religions have learnt to keep clear of politics and observe Swedish law as the highest law of the land. This stunt by the far right has exposed islam in Sweden rightly or wrongly I have no opinion, that is for Sweden to answer.

Some other factors come into play also like religion being the cause of so much destruction in the middle east, Islam needs to pull away from political events and take a softer approach. It will be extremely hard to get islam accepted across the line in the west whilst involved in politics.

Dont take this as criticism because I'm only trying to be open about what I observe.

Your religion only applies to you, the laws apply to everyone.

Far-right tries to portray all Muslims as same. That's the issue. Vast majority of the Muslims are law-abiding and hardworking.

The mess that you see in Middle East is the result of western intervention. Why did Bush invade Iraq? Iraq wasn't involved in 9/11. That Iraq invasion destabilized Middle East and caused extremist groups to thrive.

Islam is already accepted in west. Only you and your far-right buddies seem to have a problem with it and that's fine. You are in the minority.

 

[sweep_shot]

We have a saying and its only coincidence that it involves a pig and is not meant to offend.

"If you fight with a pig it wont matter who wins because you both will end up covered in ****."

Treat the far right with respect and decency and people will soon realize that your intentions are far better than theirs, if you follow their lead then you both come out looking bad.

Treating far-right with decency? That's equivalent to treating ISIS with decency.

There's a difference between right-wing and far-right. Even our (Canadian) conservative politicians denounce far-right. I don't know about Australia.

You can't label the protestors as islamists. Islamists are those who believe in supremacy of islamic laws/culture and force others to adapt. Here the protestors were reacting to desecration of their holy book. There is no equivalence between those who provoke and those who react. But given how the world operates, one should look at the larger picture when reacting.

Very well said.

Vast majority of Muslims mind their own businesses. They just want to live their lives.

 

[sweep_shot]

Obviously, with Islamists, I meant those thugs who resorted to violence. Not the peaceful protesters (which I also dont think add any value).

And what do you think will protesting about a book burnt will do? Will it stop others from burning a book?

Or will it provide the hard right with more ammo to blame the muslims? After the violence, whats the bigger story in the world news? Some idiots burning a book, or a few people resorting to violence?

Sometimes ignoring provocation is the best policy. A clever person knows when to speak when to ignore.

You are correct but we all know every side has a few idiots.

If any person does riot and/or stupid things, punish the person. Simple.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Sweden has laws that protect all religious groups, the crux of the problem is you have to let Swedish law prevail. Far right groups are worried that muslims will not adhere to Swedish laws and operate under islamic law. Thats why they burnt a koran, they are well aware that the public know if they burnt a bible there would be no interest taken by anyone. Other religions have learnt to keep clear of politics and observe Swedish law as the highest law of the land. This stunt by the far right has exposed islam in Sweden rightly or wrongly I have no opinion, that is for Sweden to answer.

Some other factors come into play also like religion being the cause of so much destruction in the middle east, Islam needs to pull away from political events and take a softer approach. It will be extremely hard to get islam accepted across the line in the west whilst involved in politics.

Dont take this as criticism because I'm only trying to be open about what I observe.

Your religion only applies to you, the laws apply to everyone.

That is rubbish though, Muslims have to abide by the rules same as anybody else. Yes you will get some who break the law, but you will get the same with any other group. Is it Muslims pulling down statues or demolishing mosques in some parts of the globe?

I agree that Muslims will probably react more violently than Christians when their holy scriptures are burned, that is because Muslims still put more stock in religion than Christians do, maybe because they come from less developed societies in the east. But then if you come from a developed society, why would you hold public gatherings to burn the Quran in the first place?

 

[JaDed]

A few things are not done just to win, but to show that you were there in the battlefield, that you didn't stay silent when something happened.

And what about choosing your battles wisely , that doesn't matter?

 

[CricketCartoons]

And what about choosing your battles wisely , that doesn't matter?

Depends on what you value more. Honour or survival. Personally I prefer survival (cockroach and the rat being my spirit animal), but can see why others may value honour more.

 

[sweep_shot]

And what about choosing your battles wisely , that doesn't matter?

In a battlefield, everyone fights as one with same objective.

This is not a battlefield. These are a few idiots who got carried away and should rightly be punished (if found guilty).

How many Muslims do you think participated in the riots (out of 800,000+ Muslims)?

 

[JaDed]

Depends on what you value more. Honour or survival. Personally I prefer survival (cockroach and the rat being my spirit animal), but can see why others may value honour more.

Honor tied to a thing the message is out there there are millions of holy book in available to read.
Edit: I see how it's about the honor of their beliefs.

In a battlefield, everyone fights as one with same objective.

This is not a battlefield. These are a few idiots who got carried away and should rightly be punished (if found guilty).

How many Muslims do you think participated in the riots (out of 800,000+ Muslims)?

The argument is just hypothetical about the battle in their minds.

 

[Bigboii]

That is rubbish though, Muslims have to abide by the rules same as anybody else. Yes you will get some who break the law, but you will get the same with any other group. Is it Muslims pulling down statues or demolishing mosques in some parts of the globe?

I agree that Muslims will probably react more violently than Christians when their holy scriptures are burned, that is because Muslims still put more stock in religion than Christians do, maybe because they come from less developed societies in the east. But then if you come from a developed society, why would you hold public gatherings to burn the Quran in the first place?

food for thought I guess

Most far right groups consist of people from ignored and poor sections of society so I think "maybe" poverty and violent behavior has
a strong correlation (in both devolved and Underdeveloped countries)

 

[Lurker_Ind]

food for thought I guess

Most far right groups consist of people from ignored and poor sections of society so I think "maybe" poverty and violent behavior has
a strong correlation (in both devolved and Underdeveloped countries)

Most rich people (developed or poor countries) do not care much about religion. They concentrate on enjoying life and protecting their money and business.

Its the middle class and poor that try to be very religious and become too religious and far right.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Indians and Aussie wanting Islamaphobia to be normalised is sad to see on this forum.

They can burn Qurans every day, it wont make any difference to the Quran, it's not a written book anyway.

Burn every Quran from any written text form or any text online or any documents, it will take a few mins to put back together accurate to the dot by believers who have memorised it worldwide.

Burn every written text or online text of the Aussie, Indian, Swedish or UK consitutional laws, it would take months to put them back together accurate to the dot. Or add the bible or Hindu scriptures, so burning the Quran is just a waste of fuel and material.

As for rioting, there is no need.

In the UK we had the EDL, Muslims didnt riot here, they just waiting for these extremists and smashed them. The cowards have all but vanished now. Which is why you dont see Hindutva soldiers walking around the UK abusing Islam and Muslims, they would be slapped very quickly, not the hardest bricks in the shed.

 

[Star_Coffee]

That is rubbish though, Muslims have to abide by the rules same as anybody else. Yes you will get some who break the law, but you will get the same with any other group. Is it Muslims pulling down statues or demolishing mosques in some parts of the globe?

I agree that Muslims will probably react more violently than Christians when their holy scriptures are burned, that is because Muslims still put more stock in religion than Christians do, maybe because they come from less developed societies in the east. But then if you come from a developed society, why would you hold public gatherings to burn the Quran in the first place?

This, and why would any Indian support it when they are residing in western progressive countries? No Indian has answered it, yet.

I thought Indians were better at adapting the western progressive way of living

 

[JaDed]

This, and why would any Indian support it when they are residing in western progressive countries? No Indian has answered it, yet.

I thought Indians were better at adapting the western progressive way of living

Another rebirth, welcome back guess its not just Hindus that give into rebirth.

 

[Star_Coffee]

Another rebirth, welcome back guess its not just Hindus that give into rebirth.

would you make an attempt as to why some Indians, usually followers of far-right, after moving to western progressive countries while claiming to be better at adapting western culture support incitement of hate against Muslims, only?

Please do not confuse criticism of religion with hate.

not a believer of reincarnation.

 

[JaDed]

would you make an attempt as to why some Indians, usually followers of far-right, after moving to western progressive countries while claiming to be better at adapting western culture support incitement of hate against Muslims, only?

Please do not confuse criticism of religion with hate.

not a believer of reincarnation.

Lol supporter of far right like whom? Majority,I don’t think they support far right. Also how can i comment on mentality of “some” Indians, can you comment on mentality of few who were involved in violence of this incident?

I don’t think I understand the mentalities i can at best question it but not claim to understand it.

 

[JaDed]

Everyone asking not to generalize is guilty of generalizing in the same thread lol.

 

[Star_Coffee]

Lol supporter of far right like whom? Majority,I don’t think they support far right. Also how can i comment on mentality of “some” Indians, can you comment on mentality of few who were involved in violence of this incident?

I don’t think I understand the mentalities i can at best question it but not claim to understand it.

would you make an attempt as to why some Indians, usually followers of far-right, after moving to western progressive countries while claiming to be better at adapting western culture support incitement of hate against Muslims, only?

Please do not confuse criticism of religion with hate.

not a believer of reincarnation.

I said, "some", not all; "usually", not always. --not a definition of generalizing, is it?- and since, most supporters of the far-right political party of India is quick to support far-right group of who incite hate and hate speech, hence the question in this context.

I can, for them, religion holds, although not warranted to act against bigotry and probably not the best way to express anger, more value.

 

[JaDed]

I said, "some", not all; "usually", not always. --not a definition of generalizing, is it?- and since, most supporters of the far-right political party of India is quick to support far-right group of who incite hate and hate speech, hence the question in this context.

I can, for them, religion holds, although not warranted to act against bigotry and probably not the best way to express anger, more value.

Then maybe you can make a similar excuse for Hindutva right wing as well.

I think they are scums and provoking people for political benefits but again since you already believe in religion as a justification I’ve nothing to add to your arguement maybe the Hindutva supporters is who you should debate on considering both (you and them) play this game

 

[Star_Coffee]

Then maybe you can make a similar excuse for Hindutva right wing as well.

I think they are scums and provoking people for political benefits but again since you already believe in religion as a justification I’ve nothing to add to your arguement maybe the Hindutva supporters is who you should debate on considering both (you and them) play this game

You're keep over-reading and assuming. I can't figure out why.

This is what wrote

I think they are scums and provoking people for political benefits but again since you already believe in religion as a justification I’ve nothing to add to your argument maybe the Hindutva supporters is who you should debate on considering both (you and them) play this game

Not playing the game, asking a legit question, "why some Indians, who claim to be living in western progressive countries while claiming to be better at adapting western culture, vehemently supporting anyone who incites hate against Muslims? Most westerners I've come across do not support nor promote hate speech, although, westerners support and promote criticism, which is greatly appreciated.

 

[Star_Coffee]

You're keep over-reading and assuming. I can't figure out why.

This is what wrote



Not playing the game, asking a legit question, "why some Indians, who claim to be living in western progressive countries while claiming to be better at adapting western culture, vehemently supporting anyone who incites hate against Muslims? Most westerners I've come across do not support nor promote hate speech, although, westerners support and promote criticism, which is greatly appreciated.

I can, for them, religion holds, although not warranted to act against bigotry and probably not the best way to express anger, more value.

correction, added a wrong quote--that isn't justification, rather a criticism of those who rioted.

 

[JaDed]

You're keep over-reading and assuming. I can't figure out why.

This is what wrote



Not playing the game, asking a legit question, "why some Indians, who claim to be living in western progressive countries while claiming to be better at adapting western culture, vehemently supporting anyone who incites hate against Muslims? Most westerners I've come across do not support nor promote hate speech, although, westerners support and promote criticism, which is greatly appreciated.

I hope you see the flaw is your question- as per your statement the same westerners are having far right among them.. and some Indians support them eventhough claiming to be well adapted.. so then maybe these “Indians” adapted to the far right of western culture.. aren’t these far right a big number in western countries?

 

[Local.Dada]

I said, "some", not all; "usually", not always. --not a definition of generalizing, is it?- and since, most supporters of the far-right political party of India is quick to support far-right group of who incite hate and hate speech, hence the question in this context.

I can, for them, religion holds, although not warranted to act against bigotry and probably not the best way to express anger, more value.

Lol you sound like one of those chai pe charcha type housewives of Pakistan daily shows who talk about India having a right wing political party that kills all Muslims .

Pick up a book, read news from all sides, talk to people and form an opinion.

BJP built a Ram Mandir- right wing

BJP ended a decades long conflict and even the Muslim waqf board of whoever were disputing for the land were happy with their compensation- I hear crickets.

Under BJP Supreme Court bans triple Talaq- BJP is intruding with Islam. Even though this is a progressive move for the benefit of minority Women but who cares it is BJP.

Under BJP the Supreme Court also ends centuries long practice which existed even before Islam or Christianity of prohibition of women in Sabarimala temple- pretty sure that is like gibberish to you because you probably have no clue what any of that means.

Ok you are not generalizing all Hindus great but india the worlds largest democracy of 1.3 billion people elected a party giving it the biggest mandate every so either go ahead 70-80% Hindus are right wing or you have made the biggest generalization ever.

Pull me the profession of any Pakistani Muslim except of big shot Army generals, politicians and above and I can assure you that be it an athlete, entertainer, entrepreneur, Middle class 9-5 job employee or even daily wage Muslim laborers all have higher standards of living and more networth than their Pakistani counterparts.

I would focus on Pakistan and misinterpretation of Islam by a select few rather than Indian Muslims or Hindus who are doing fine and Hinduism which has made a lot of strides in correcting a lot of social issues which have been generalized and attributed to it over many years be it Sati or even the Caste system. Obviously we are not perfect, in fact far from it but we are aware of our issues and open minded enough for reforms.

Hope that settles it.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

Indians and Aussie wanting Islamaphobia to be normalised is sad to see on this forum.

They can burn Qurans every day, it wont make any difference to the Quran, it's not a written book anyway.

Burn every Quran from any written text form or any text online or any documents, it will take a few mins to put back together accurate to the dot by believers who have memorised it worldwide.

Burn every written text or online text of the Aussie, Indian, Swedish or UK consitutional laws, it would take months to put them back together accurate to the dot. Or add the bible or Hindu scriptures, so burning the Quran is just a waste of fuel and material.

As for rioting, there is no need.

In the UK we had the EDL, Muslims didnt riot here, they just waiting for these extremists and smashed them. The cowards have all but vanished now. Which is why you dont see Hindutva soldiers walking around the UK abusing Islam and Muslims, they would be slapped very quickly, not the hardest bricks in the shed.

They why riot and burn down the city? Obviously the rioters do not share your views.

West idea of Freedom of Speech includes criticism of religion, religious figures, historical people etc. That also includes mocking the aforementioned people and burning effigies and scriptures.

I am in no way supporting their acts, but as per Western idea of Freedom of speech, everyone can be targeted irrespective of religion, color, nationality and race. Nobody is above criticism. People who want to settle in Western countries have to fully understand this concept before they move to West.

 

[Star_Coffee]

Lol you sound like one of those chai pe charcha type housewives of Pakistan daily shows who talk about India having a right wing political party that kills all Muslims .

Pick up a book, read news from all sides, talk to people and form an opinion.

BJP built a Ram Mandir- right wing

BJP ended a decades long conflict and even the Muslim waqf board of whoever were disputing for the land were happy with their compensation- I hear crickets.

Under BJP Supreme Court bans triple Talaq- BJP is intruding with Islam. Even though this is a progressive move for the benefit of minority Women but who cares it is BJP.

Under BJP the Supreme Court also ends centuries long practice which existed even before Islam or Christianity of prohibition of women in Sabarimala temple- pretty sure that is like gibberish to you because you probably have no clue what any of that means.

Ok you are not generalizing all Hindus great but india the worlds largest democracy of 1.3 billion people elected a party giving it the biggest mandate every so either go ahead 70-80% Hindus are right wing or you have made the biggest generalization ever.

Pull me the profession of any Pakistani Muslim except of big shot Army generals, politicians and above and I can assure you that be it an athlete, entertainer, entrepreneur, Middle class 9-5 job employee or even daily wage Muslim laborers all have higher standards of living and more networth than their Pakistani counterparts.

I would focus on Pakistan and misinterpretation of Islam by a select few rather than Indian Muslims or Hindus who are doing fine and Hinduism which has made a lot of strides in correcting a lot of social issues which have been generalized and attributed to it over many years be it Sati or even the Caste system. Obviously we are not perfect, in fact far from it but we are aware of our issues and open minded enough for reforms.

Hope that settles it.

This would be a perfect example of far-right of India maskering as - look, we are changing things to make your life better and in the middle throw a comment, we've made more money - something only an aunty of small village would say.

 

[KingKhanWC]

They why riot and burn down the city? Obviously the rioters do not share your views.

Of course they dont, as we didnt riot in the UK, we just beat up the far right when they came.

West idea of Freedom of Speech includes criticism of religion, religious figures, historical people etc. That also includes mocking the aforementioned people and burning effigies and scriptures.

I am in no way supporting their acts, but as per Western idea of Freedom of speech, everyone can be targeted irrespective of religion, color, nationality and race. Nobody is above criticism. People who want to settle in Western countries have to fully understand this concept before they move to West.

Not sure where you live , probably a stronghold of the RSS in India but you are clueless.

Freedom of speech doesnt include freedom to incite hatred, not in the UK and many European nations. You really should research instead of making daft assumptions.

"Danish Man Who Burned Quran Is Prosecuted for Blasphemy"

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/world/europe/denmark-quran-burning.html

"Jail term for man who burned Koran"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/jail-term-for-man-who-burned-koran-2269561.html

This isnt extremist India kid.

 

[Star_Coffee]

I hope you see the flaw is your question- as per your statement the same westerners are having far right among them.. and some Indians support them eventhough claiming to be well adapted.. so then maybe these “Indians” adapted to the far right of western culture.. aren’t these far right a big number in western countries?

Big number but no in the majority in some of the major countries, eg; Canada.

I believe, In the US, it isn't the majority, most of the people voted for Trump hoping for the change. Coming election would tell if it is to stay here just like in India.

 

[JaDed]

Big number but no in the majority in some of the major countries, eg; Canada.

I believe, In the US, it isn't the majority, most of the people voted for Trump hoping for the change. Coming election would tell if it is to stay here just like in India.

You think Canada has no far right? Canada has its fair share.. and which Indian Canadian have you seen supporting far right in Canada??

Also by majority I meant “these” far right are westerners mostly.. who else do you think invented far right?

 

[Lurker_Ind]

Of course they dont, as we didnt riot in the UK, we just beat up the far right when they came.



Not sure where you live , probably a stronghold of the RSS in India but you are clueless.

Freedom of speech doesnt include freedom to incite hatred, not in the UK and many European nations. You really should research instead of making daft assumptions.

"Danish Man Who Burned Quran Is Prosecuted for Blasphemy"

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/world/europe/denmark-quran-burning.html

"Jail term for man who burned Koran"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/jail-term-for-man-who-burned-koran-2269561.html

This isnt extremist India kid.

I am a United States Citizen now. So anyone who does not support your views is automatically an RSS supporter.
Burning a holy scripture does not mean inciting hatred. Unless someone clearly says that it is ok to kill or physically harm someone or a group based on their religious views or color or race or sexual orientation, it is not considered inciting hatred.

If the people who burned Holy Quran in the links you posted are indeed jailed for Blasphemy. it is utterly shameful.

Many consider their National Flag or Political leaders almost equal to God. So that means you cannot burn flags or criticize and burn their effigies anymore? Does this mean that Antifa and BLM who call Trump terrible names and make horrendous jokes about him should not be allowed to do that? Where will this end?

 

[sweep_shot]

I am a United States Citizen now. So anyone who does not support your views is automatically an RSS supporter.
Burning a holy scripture does not mean inciting hatred. Unless someone clearly says that it is ok to kill or physically harm someone or a group based on their religious views or color or race or sexual orientation, it is not considered inciting hatred.

Burning a holy book is indeed inciting hatred. Threatening someone is another offense. Let's not confuse the two.

I am not a Christian but I would oppose burning a bible. It is called basic human decency.

If the people who burned Holy Quran in the links you posted are indeed jailed for Blasphemy. it is utterly shameful.

Many consider their National Flag or Political leaders almost equal to God. So that means you cannot burn flags or criticize and burn their effigies anymore? Does this mean that Antifa and BLM who call Trump terrible names and make horrendous jokes about him should not be allowed to do that? Where will this end?

I think anyone who burns flag should be penalized.

Any action that harms social harmony should be penalized.

 

[sweep_shot]

Of course they dont, as we didnt riot in the UK, we just beat up the far right when they came.



Not sure where you live , probably a stronghold of the RSS in India but you are clueless.

Freedom of speech doesnt include freedom to incite hatred, not in the UK and many European nations. You really should research instead of making daft assumptions.

"Danish Man Who Burned Quran Is Prosecuted for Blasphemy"

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/23/world/europe/denmark-quran-burning.html

"Jail term for man who burned Koran"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/jail-term-for-man-who-burned-koran-2269561.html

This isnt extremist India kid.

This is why I love UK. Far-right can't have a good time there. People don't play around.

Keep it like that.

Anyone who burns a holy book (not just Quran) should be jailed or penalized. This is common sense.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Laws protected all of them for inciting hate.

Were Salman Rushdie and Charlie Hebdo inciting hate or were they artists?

 

[sweep_shot]

Were Salman Rushdie and Charlie Hebdo inciting hate or were they artists?

Are Charlie Hebdo attackers free now? They were either killed or jailed. Not sure what your point is.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

This is why I love UK. Far-right can't have a good time there. People don't play around.

Keep it like that.

Anyone who burns a holy book (not just Quran) should be jailed or penalized. This is common sense.

If I believe Trump is God, will it mean no one else can criticize Mr.President?

Are you supporter of Blasphemy law?

 

[KingKhanWC]

This is why I love UK. Far-right can't have a good time there. People don't play around.

Keep it like that.

Anyone who burns a holy book (not just Quran) should be jailed or penalized. This is common sense.

Tommy Robinson the lead far right instigator has fled to Spain. Far right are cowards, they need police to protect them, most of the British public are against them too. You might be surprised by the anti-facists reguarlly give the far right a good hiding. Hindutva or Zionists dont even open their mouths here, they just hide and spread their hatred online, social media etc.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Are Charlie Hebdo attackers free now? They were either killed or jailed. Not sure what your point is.

I am not referring to the attackers. I was asking him if whether Rushdie/Hebdo were incting hatred with their art.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

Tommy Robinson the lead far right instigator has fled to Spain. Far right are cowards, they need police to protect them, most of the British public are against them too. You might be surprised by the anti-facists reguarlly give the far right a good hiding. Hindutva or Zionists dont even open their mouths here, they just hide and spread their hatred online, social media etc.

If Far right are running away from brave Antifa and Muslims, it means they are not as dangerous as Antifa and Muslim Extremists.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I am not referring to the attackers. I was asking him if whether Rushdie/Hebdo were incting hatred with their art.

India banned the Satanic verses, what was the reason?

Hebdo cartoons were inciting hatred, such cartoons would be banned in many nations in Europe, France is different but you dont see Hebdo releasing such cartoons now. Maybe the odd one but they have also piped down.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

India banned the Satanic verses, what was the reason?

Hebdo cartoons were inciting hatred, such cartoons would be banned in many nations in Europe, France is different but you dont see Hebdo releasing such cartoons now. Maybe the odd one but they have also piped down.

India banned it because Congress did not want to upset their vote bank. Muslims are a minority in Inida. But there are 180 million of them.

 

[KingKhanWC]

If Far right are running away from brave Antifa and Muslims, it means they are not as dangerous as Antifa and Muslim Extremists.

There is no Antifa in the UK. Of course extremists are cowards but British Muslims here are not the same as you would find in the 60's, we are grown up now with a lot of influence and strength in the UK. They are more dangerous because they can cowardly kill people which they have done many many times.

Muslim extremists are low lifes too but Hindu, Jewish and Far right extremist ideologies have made their way into the governments such as India, Israel and US. So far more dangerous to the world.

 

[KingKhanWC]

India banned it because Congress did not want to upset their vote bank. Muslims are a minority in Inida. But there are 180 million of them.

Your friends the RSS are in charge now, so why not send them an email to unban it, as clearly you are stressed by this decision.

 

[sweep_shot]

If I believe Trump is God, will it mean no one else can criticize Mr.President?

Are you supporter of Blasphemy law?

I am a supporter of basic human decency.

Burning a religious book is an example of indecency. Only a lowlife may support that type of activity.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

Your friends the RSS are in charge now, so why not send them an email to unban it, as clearly you are stressed by this decision.

I don't care about Satanic Verses. It was written by Rushdie and the issue was started by Brit Muslims.

My issue is with only free speech. As long as no one is threatening to kill anyone or a group, verbal criticism and mock acts of burning scriptures, flags and effigies of prominent people should be allowed.

If someone is scared of criticism, it means they have something to hide.

 

[Lurker_Ind]

I am a supporter of basic human decency.

Burning a religious book is an example of indecency. Only a lowlife may support that type of activity.

Do you support banning of mocking prominent figures like Trump, Modi etc? If you do, then I have nothing to say to you. If you do not support, then it means you are a hypocrite.

 

[Thomaskutty]

India banned the Satanic verses, what was the reason?

Hebdo cartoons were inciting hatred, such cartoons would be banned in many nations in Europe, France is different but you dont see Hebdo releasing such cartoons now. Maybe the odd one but they have also piped down.

I didn't agree with India's silly ban on the book. Politicians are always stupid and have a knee-jerk reaction on these issues if a community leader comes up to them and expresses hurt sentiments. Even a harmless book like Da Vinci code was banned in parts of India.

Hebdo cartoonists were not inciting hatred, that is what they do .. I've seen them do worse cartoons about Jesus. You have every right not to buy their magazines instead of gunning down their cartoonists ..its a free world.

 

[sweep_shot]

Do you support banning of mocking prominent figures like Trump, Modi etc? If you do, then I have nothing to say to you. If you do not support, then it means you are a hypocrite.

Flags, anthems, holy books etc. These are different. Leaders are different.

Maybe these basic concepts are too hard for you. Not my fault.

Human decency is a beautiful thing.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Tommy Robinson the lead far right instigator has fled to Spain. Far right are cowards, they need police to protect them, most of the British public are against them too. .

Funny how you bash Tommy Robinson for being a religious instigator but bow down to the Chinese and defend them when they are tearing down mosques and building bathrooms over the sites. Shame on you, have some self respect please.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I don't care about Satanic Verses. It was written by Rushdie and the issue was started by Brit Muslims.

My issue is with only free speech. As long as no one is threatening to kill anyone or a group, verbal criticism and mock acts of burning scriptures, flags and effigies of prominent people should be allowed.

If someone is scared of criticism, it means they have something to hide.

It was an issue with Iran and the Ayatollah mostly, you really need to educate yourself.

I then assume you are agaisnt the laws in India which ban eating cows? A type of food eat worldwide by billions for thousands of years. Where is the freedom for people to eat cows? Yet you're ok with freedom to abuse religions?

 

[KingKhanWC]

I didn't agree with India's silly ban on the book. Politicians are always stupid and have a knee-jerk reaction on these issues if a community leader comes up to them and expresses hurt sentiments. Even a harmless book like Da Vinci code was banned in parts of India.

Hebdo cartoonists were not inciting hatred, that is what they do .. I've seen them do worse cartoons about Jesus. You have every right not to buy their magazines instead of gunning down their cartoonists ..its a free world.

You dont agree with the beef ban too?

Inciting hatred is when anything is done with a negative agenda which incites others to hate. Making cartoons of religous figures portraying them as killers is inciting hatred to the followers of the religion.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Funny how you bash Tommy Robinson for being a religious instigator but bow down to the Chinese and defend them when they are tearing down mosques and building bathrooms over the sites. Shame on you, have some self respect please.

Chinese are fighting sepratits, they dont hate Muslims as the majority of Muslims in China live a good life.

Tommy Robinson was ignoring white peados , even his own close friends but attacking other minorities. He was attacking Islam when his own faith, Christianty has a far bloodier history and more terrorirts..

Do you not get this simple understanding?

 

[Lurker_Ind]

You dont agree with the beef ban too?

Inciting hatred is when anything is done with a negative agenda which incites others to hate. Making cartoons of religous figures portraying them as killers is inciting hatred to the followers of the religion.

Beef ban is ridiculous. Cow may be sacred to a chunk of Hindus and they don’t eat it. Why ban it for others who do not consider it sacred?

 

[Local.Dada]

I know a close family member who had a form of lung cancer associated with smokers.

The guy never touched a cigarette or alcohol in his life and had a pretty healthy lifestyle and looked healthy.

He initially spent some time deducing why he got the disease and concluded either it was due to a genetic problem or may be due to pollution in our part of the world as he used to go to work on his bike to work for most part of his life.

Anyway he got over it, and instead of blaming the irresponsible public, the Indian government for failure to control traffic pollution or his forefathers for his condition he focused on treatment and beating his cancer and came out victorious.

Why is this relevant?

I guess instead of focusing on the right wing all over the world be it India, Sweeden, America,UK or other parts of Europe, may be time to introspect what causes situations/incidents like Bengaluru, Charlie Hebdo, the one in sweeden or other skirmishes in UK or what is happening in Syria,Afghanistan and even parts of Pakistan.

In most cases the reaction don’t seem to match the actual act that provoked the reaction.

I would presume that would be the logical approach but I guess not.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Beef ban is ridiculous. Cow may be sacred to a chunk of Hindus and they don’t eat it. Why ban it for others who do not consider it sacred?

Why arent you spending the same energy writing emails to your MP to change this? Surely you care more about Hndustan than you do for Europe, you dont live here.

 

[Local.Dada]

Why arent you spending the same energy writing emails to your MP to change this? Surely you care more about Hndustan than you do for Europe, you dont live here.

Why aren’t you raising voice against the idiots who are giving your religion a bad name instead of focusing on idiots from the other side you have no control over?

Surely you don’t appreciate their actions

 

[sweep_shot]

Why aren’t you raising voice against the idiots who are giving your religion a bad name instead of focusing on idiots from the other side you have no control over?

Surely you don’t appreciate their actions

He has already condemned the rioters and so did I.

Check post #272: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...rns-violent-in-Sweden&p=10871964#post10871964.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Why aren’t you raising voice against the idiots who are giving your religion a bad name instead of focusing on idiots from the other side you have no control over?

Surely you don’t appreciate their actions

There is no need. There are nearly 2 billion Muslims from every corner of the planet, the percentage who are criminals using the religion to justify their behaviour is 0.01%. Dozens of famous scholars have issued views condeming them, thats enough. We cannot educate or change the mind of those with hatred within their hearts. Is it worth discussing this with RSS members? No as they simply cant get over Muslims ruling current India for nearly a millenium. I'd rather speak out against unjust discimrination and smash those who sow the seeds of hatred. Shame there is no RSS group in the UK who have the will to march or protest against Muslims, it would be a pleasure.

 

[Local.Dada]

He has already condemned the rioters and so did I.

Check post #272: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...rns-violent-in-Sweden&p=10871964#post10871964.

That shouldn’t be a token symbol. That sounds like the equivalent of I am not racist but.....

You are more focusing on what caused the problem that the deeper rooted problem which is extreme reaction and other destruction.

 

[sweep_shot]

That shouldn’t be a token symbol. That sounds like the equivalent of I am not racist but.....

You are more focusing on what caused the problem that the deeper rooted problem which is extreme reaction and other destruction.

We are condemning both. There's no reason why we should condemn only one side. There's no law that says we can't condemn the far right.

There's no deep rooted problem. Vast majority of Muslims don't engage in these riots.

 

[miandadrules]

Indians and Aussie wanting Islamaphobia to be normalised is sad to see on this forum.

They can burn Qurans every day, it wont make any difference to the Quran, it's not a written book anyway.

Burn every Quran from any written text form or any text online or any documents, it will take a few mins to put back together accurate to the dot by believers who have memorised it worldwide.

Burn every written text or online text of the Aussie, Indian, Swedish or UK consitutional laws, it would take months to put them back together accurate to the dot. Or add the bible or Hindu scriptures, so burning the Quran is just a waste of fuel and material.

As for rioting, there is no need.

In the UK we had the EDL, Muslims didnt riot here, they just waiting for these extremists and smashed them. The cowards have all but vanished now. Which is why you dont see Hindutva soldiers walking around the UK abusing Islam and Muslims, they would be slapped very quickly, not the hardest bricks in the shed.

You’ll only get the 1924 version of the Quran.

Would you end with warsh or hafs versions?

“To the dot” - first Qurans didn’t have diacritical markings.

Let’s take your analogy further.

If we wipe all knowledge and have to start from scratch, books of science will reproduce exactly after a period of time. The religions that were wiped will never return.

 

[Slog]

Indians and Aussie wanting Islamaphobia to be normalised is sad to see on this forum.

They can burn Qurans every day, it wont make any difference to the Quran, it's not a written book anyway.

Burn every Quran from any written text form or any text online or any documents, it will take a few mins to put back together accurate to the dot by believers who have memorised it worldwide.

Burn every written text or online text of the Aussie, Indian, Swedish or UK consitutional laws, it would take months to put them back together accurate to the dot. Or add the bible or Hindu scriptures, so burning the Quran is just a waste of fuel and material.

As for rioting, there is no need.

In the UK we had the EDL, Muslims didnt riot here, they just waiting for these extremists and smashed them. The cowards have all but vanished now. Which is why you dont see Hindutva soldiers walking around the UK abusing Islam and Muslims, they would be slapped very quickly, not the hardest bricks in the shed.

It’s all online anyway at this point