PTI's Tsunami March on 14th August [Mega Thread]

[saadibaba]

I figured. How do the people go about doing so? And what if there is no response from the government?

Use Parliament, peaceful protests and media etc. The march itself would have been fine if there wasn't any unconstitutional demand at the root of it. Its a known fact that govt. had accepted all 5 out of 6 demands for electoral reforms but the issue got stuck at NS's resignation. To me IK had already achieved what he was set out for and more..would have been great to end the dharna and go home, keeping the govt. in check through the means Ive already mentioned to make sure they come through on their promises.

 

[Fastandfurious]

Use Parliament, peaceful protests and media etc. The march itself would have been fine if there wasn't any unconstitutional demand at the root of it. Its a known fact that govt. had accepted all 5 out of 6 demands for electoral reforms but the issue got stuck at NS's resignation. To me IK had already achieved what he was set out for and more..would have been great to end the dharna and go home, keeping the govt. in check through the means Ive already mentioned to make sure they come through on their promises.

Alright. How do we hold accountable the Punjab police for killing 14 and then 3 more recently whilst injuring 100's? An FIR's been lodged for quite some time now and there has been no response.

 

[FreeBird]

Use Parliament, peaceful protests and media etc. The march itself would have been fine if there wasn't any unconstitutional demand at the root of it. Its a known fact that govt. had accepted all 5 out of 6 demands for electoral reforms but the issue got stuck at NS's resignation. To me IK had already achieved what he was set out for and more..would have been great to end the dharna and go home, keeping the govt. in check through the means Ive already mentioned to make sure they come through on their promises.

lol @ "keep the govt in check"

 

[saadibaba]

Alright. How do we hold accountable the Punjab police for killing 14 and then 3 more recently whilst injuring 100's? An FIR's been lodged for quite some time now and there has been no response.

You've made great progress in that regard as well by putting pressure on the govt. and getting other political parties on your side like PPP and MQM. I somewhat agree with the demand of CM's resignation and lodging of FIR's but you can't just expect decades long politicization of the the police force and the culture of the rich and powerful getting their way to disappear in a day. PM's resignation is an unconstitutional demand. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Fastandfurious]

You've made great progress in that regard as well by putting pressure on the govt. and getting other political parties on your side like PPP and MQM. I somewhat agree with the demand of CM's resignation and lodging of FIR's but you can't just expect decades long politicization of the the police force and the culture of the rich and powerful getting their way to disappear in a day. PM's resignation is an unconstitutional demand. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Let's say we let the PM be and he continues to put Pakistan under more debt, worsening the situation in the country even more. Is there any way to fight this or do we just let the situation be?

I'm just asking questions, not indirectly supporting what Imran's doing. So needless to bring him in.

 

[anakin]

Let's say we let the PM be and he continues to put Pakistan under more debt, worsening the situation in the country even more. Is there any way to fight this or do we just let the situation be?

I'm just asking questions, not indirectly supporting what Imran's doing. So needless to bring him in.

If you want "Fast and Furious" P) growth, Democracy is not the answer you are looking for buddy.
Democracies are inefficient but they are robust.

 

[Fastandfurious]

If you want "Fast and Furious" P) growth, Democracy is not the answer you are looking for buddy.
Democracies are inefficient but they are robust.

I'm just asking Saadi questions.

 

[anakin]

I'm just asking Saadi questions.

Is my reply wrong or you dont like me answering your query.?

 

[Fastandfurious]

Is my reply wrong or you dont like me answering your query.?

Not questioning democracy, just trying to understand Saadi's thoughts on specific matters.

 

[anakin]

Not questioning democracy, just trying to understand Saadi's thoughts on specific matters.

hmm.. but I kinda agree with what Saadi has to say.
Changes are happening for good in Pakistan, but overly charged acceleration will destabilize the country beyond repair.
I can draw analogy to speed limits, and pressing for 36 runs in every over.
Next ball you might lose it all.

( I am not knowledgeable enough to comment upon the specific incidences, but I think in principle what Saadi says makes for a much more mature and reliable approach to a stable democratic set-up)

 

[Fastandfurious]

hmm.. but I kinda agree with what Saadi has to say.
Changes are happening for good in Pakistan, but overly charged acceleration will destabilize the country beyond repair.
I can draw analogy to speed limits, and pressing for 36 runs in every over.
Next ball you might lose it all.

( I am not knowledgeable enough to comment upon the specific incidences, but I think in principle what Saadi says makes for a much more mature and reliable approach to a stable democratic set-up)

Your agreement to Saadi does not matter to me. It's best we stop here.
[MENTION=47981]b[/MENTION]linding_light I think, I found a fixie.

 

[anakin]

Your agreement to Saadi does not matter to me. It's best we stop here.
[MENTION=47981]b[/MENTION]linding_light I think, I found a fixie.

Ok.. stopping here..

PS:what's a fixie??

 

[Fastandfurious]

Inside joke.

 

[saadibaba]

Let's say we let the PM be and he continues to put Pakistan under more debt, worsening the situation in the country even more. Is there any way to fight this or do we just let the situation be?

I'm just asking questions, not indirectly supporting what Imran's doing. So needless to bring him in.

We the people, from which I mean the civil society can do a lot to put pressure on the govt. through social media, sit-ins, peaceful protests, hunger strikes etc. The PM in today's world cannot afford to live in isolation and if he does, it will cost him dearly. If such strategies don't work then I'm afraid you just have to stick with him till the end of his term. Look at India, MMS and the Congress party became deeply unpopular in the last few years of his term but did Modi along with his supporters threatened to lay siege to his house till he resigns. No, he kept building pressure, kept criticizing him and waited for his term to end and than won the elections in an unprecedented fashion.

The idea of taking a thousand or so people in front of the PM's house asking for his resignation otherwise threatening civil disobedience is counter productive IMO and ends up causing more harm to the country rather than the PM. In short, we need to learn the concept of you get what you paid for and even though there has been accusations of massive rigging, PML-N probably still got the highest number of votes, meaning there are a lot of people who still like them. Forcing PM out of office is only going to make political martyrs out of them. Let his supporters suffer the pain if he is so bad so next time they go for IK's party.

If you say well what if rigging happens again. I'm sure it will, but all indications are it will be much less and as time goes on, the electoral process will get more and more transparent reaching the stage of India's or America's fairness. What you don't want is getting in the way of such an evolutionary process by breaking the rules of the game.

(P.S. I know we are playing Q&A here but try to let other posters also present their POV's as this is an open forum. It makes the debate much more richer and interesting


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[zimmz]

The march itself would have been fine if there wasn't any unconstitutional demand at the root of it. Its a known fact that govt. had accepted all 5 out of 6 demands for electoral reforms but the issue got stuck at NS's resignation.

1. What was unconstitutional about resignation demand? Where in constitution it is written that no one can demand resignation of PM?

2. FACT? Can you prove that gov accepted other 5 demands? This is hogwash and propaganda to deter protestors from pressing for PM resignation.

 

[DHONI183]

Amazing Baba from PTI Dherna hahaha

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x267rtp" allowfullscreen></iframe>

What a cute man!

Today joint session was all about Geo wow the biggest issue in country is Geo?

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x267eqc" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is amongst the most annoying things to come out of these parliament sessions! These mentions of Geo Network again and again and words of support sounds so irritatingly. Worst of all was Raza Rabbani of the PPP criticising the government for not being able to resume the channel´s transmission in many parts of the country.

 

[anakin]

1. What was unconstitutional about resignation demand? Where in constitution it is written that no one can demand resignation of PM?

.

I think its perfectly stated in Constitution that PM has to resign if he loses the majority in the national assembly.
That's the only way he can lose his post.
OR have his candidature disqualified on the technical grounds.(

Any other way is blatant disregard of the Constitution.

 

[zimmz]

I think its perfectly stated in Constitution that PM has to resign if he loses the majority in the national assembly.
That's the only way he can lose his post.
OR have his candidature disqualified on the technical grounds.(

Any other way is blatant disregard of the Constitution.

What is not forbidden in constitution is allowed. By your interpretation, a PM can't resign on his own if he/she so will because in constitution he/she is not given the right to do so

 

[Fastandfurious]

We the people, from which I mean the civil society can do a lot to put pressure on the govt. through social media, sit-ins, peaceful protests, hunger strikes etc. The PM in today's world cannot afford to live in isolation and if he does, it will cost him dearly. If such strategies don't work then I'm afraid you just have to stick with him till the end of his term. Look at India, MMS and the Congress party became deeply unpopular in the last few years of his term but did Modi along with his supporters threatened to lay siege to his house till he resigns. No, he kept building pressure, kept criticizing him and waited for his term to end and than won the elections in an unprecedented fashion.

The idea of taking a thousand or so people in front of the PM's house asking for his resignation otherwise threatening civil disobedience is counter productive IMO and ends up causing more harm to the country rather than the PM. In short, we need to learn the concept of you get what you paid for and even though there has been accusations of massive rigging, PML-N probably still got the highest number of votes, meaning there are a lot of people who still like them. Forcing PM out of office is only going to make political martyrs out of them. Let his supporters suffer the pain if he is so bad so next time they go for IK's party.

If you say well what if rigging happens again. I'm sure it will, but all indications are it will be much less and as time goes on, the electoral process will get more and more transparent reaching the stage of India's or America's fairness. What you don't want is getting in the way of such an evolutionary process by breaking the rules of the game.

(P.S. I know we are playing Q&A here but try to let other posters also present their POV's as this is an open forum. It makes the debate much more richer and interesting


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So, basically what you are saying is, we sacrifice what should be the right of people and wait patiently for the system to develop until it is strong enough to give us our rights.

Don't make assumptions about rigging if you haven't tested the waters.

I'm not having a debate, just asking questions.

Are there any flaws in democracy at its peak?

 

[godzilla]

the other obvious question is why there is an assumption that the country has enough time to wait for several iterations of 'democracy' to play out whilst debt is spiralling, inflation is spiralling, poverty is spiralling, and stolen wealth is spiralling - these trends cant go on indefinitely.

and of course, if previous governments were able to corrupt the judiciary and various of these hallowed institutions that appear to need nurturing beyond everything else, why this would change? iterative improvements on the margin by voters might give each new government a new lick of paint, but given the stakes, where is the conviction derived that the complicit power share agreement doesnt continue until the country becomes a failed state?

 

[saadibaba]

1. What was unconstitutional about resignation demand? Where in constitution it is written that no one can demand resignation of PM?

2. FACT? Can you prove that gov accepted other 5 demands? This is hogwash and propaganda to deter protestors from pressing for PM resignation.

1. LHC have called these demands unconstitutional.
http://dunyanews.tv/index.php/en/Pakistan/232562-LHC-declares-Imran-Khan-and-Tahirul-Qadris-demand

2.Both Darr and Saad Rafique have said so in the media. Even IK have said that the COAS had guaranteed the approval of 5 out of 6 demands put by PTI.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/763199/...nces-of-meeting-ptis-5-demands-reveals-imran/

 

[Strike Rate]

haha now even PMLN MPs saying Go Nawaz Go lol sach zubaan per aa he jata hai!

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x2690is" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[zimmz]

1. LHC have called these demands unconstitutional.
http://dunyanews.tv/index.php/en/Pakistan/232562-LHC-declares-Imran-Khan-and-Tahirul-Qadris-demand

Courts have been issuing orders like printing currency notes and that too under polticial influences, both to and gainst gov or opposition. They are just making mockery of themselves. In the article it says long march is unconstitutional, yet IHC/SC said protestors have right to do so and almost all major courts including LHS order gov to not to arrest protestors. Isn't it conflicting? Also in the article pretty much all demands are declared unconstitutional without a single reference to a constitutional paragraph that explicitly forbids such demands. Also if this was the case gov could have simply repeated the mantra that LHS has declared long marhc unconstituional and there was no need for days long negotiations.

2.Both Darr and Saad Rafique have said so in the media. Even IK have said that the COAS had guaranteed the approval of 5 out of 6 demands put by PTI.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/763199/...nces-of-meeting-ptis-5-demands-reveals-imran/

Assurance of army chief != demands accepted by gov.
Secondly gov side was trying to create this impresison that demands are met but PTI/media have several time debunk this and even documented response of gov was shown in media (dig it up). Just today in speech IK said gov is lieing about 5 demands being accepted.

 

[godzilla]

1. LHC have called these demands unconstitutional.
http://dunyanews.tv/index.php/en/Pakistan/232562-LHC-declares-Imran-Khan-and-Tahirul-Qadris-demand

2.Both Darr and Saad Rafique have said so in the media. Even IK have said that the COAS had guaranteed the approval of 5 out of 6 demands put by PTI.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/763199/...nces-of-meeting-ptis-5-demands-reveals-imran/

that lhc judge seems to have a history of judgements in favour of mian ganja.... either very coincidental or hes in his pocket:

http://www.dawn.com/news/663809/nab-ordered-to-return-sharifs-property-papers

http://lubpak.com/archives/60414

 

[anakin]

Courts have been issuing orders like printing currency notes and that too under polticial influences, both to and gainst gov or opposition. They are just making mockery of themselves. In the article it says long march is unconstitutional, yet IHC/SC said protestors have right to do so and almost all major courts including LHS order gov to not to arrest protestors. Isn't it conflicting? Also in the article pretty much all demands are declared unconstitutional without a single reference to a constitutional paragraph that explicitly forbids such demands. Also if this was the case gov could have simply repeated the mantra that LHS has declared long marhc unconstituional and there was no need for days long negotiations.

Wow!! Now you will not follow the Legislature, you will not obey court order(that is not to your liking), Administration... no body cares.

Mob Rule.... thats Anarchy my dear friend .. not democracy.

Constitution is a small text covering the laws of the land, the only authority to interpret the constitution with any legal standing are the courts. That is very much in the Constitution.
In terms of the laws, you are very much in the negative.
Morally your stand might be right, but morally right doesnt mean legally right. Thats a distinction you need to understand.
Courts have the authority and i think wisdom enough, to interpret the law and have that interpretation as morally right as possible.

Its very funny and ironic to see, IK accepting court orders which are in his favor, but completely disregarding others which seem to disagree with him.

A negotiation in a hostage stand-off doesnt justify the stand of the hijackers.

 

[Fastandfurious]

haha now even PMLN MPs saying Go Nawaz Go lol sach zubaan per aa he jata hai!

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x2690is" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Omg, this is hilarious! ) )

 

[DRS]

I have serious reservations regarding PTI's social media team, who have built repute of being Ignorant, bigots and abusive towards anyone who speaks Imran Khan. He's no God' s man, which makes him vulnerable to get lured to make mistakes.

 

[Indiafan]

the other obvious question is why there is an assumption that the country has enough time to wait for several iterations of 'democracy' to play out whilst debt is spiralling, inflation is spiralling, poverty is spiralling, and stolen wealth is spiralling - these trends cant go on indefinitely.

and of course, if previous governments were able to corrupt the judiciary and various of these hallowed institutions that appear to need nurturing beyond everything else, why this would change? iterative improvements on the margin by voters might give each new government a new lick of paint, but given the stakes, where is the conviction derived that the complicit power share agreement doesn't continue until the country becomes a failed state?

Well you need some kind of stability anyway. So if not allowing the current government to exist then what next? I have a question for you

Even if you have a caretaker government in place and then hold fresh elections, how do you gaurantee stability? It is still going to be a long, long fight, isn't it? All of the problems you stated, inflation, poverty, corruption is not going to be solved overnight because of fresh elections. So do tell me, what makes you think the country will have more patience this time? That a new savior will not come up and lead more impatient people and bring that government down?

At the current moment I have a feeling the public doesn't even care for slow improvements. So it is very likely that tomorrow some more rumors about corruption, some dubious reports will again start a new revolution because most people will not be able to perceive the slow improvements in things. The same Imran who is now a savior will become the villain then

I read a quote on an article in dawn which said, "Pakistan is the only country which distributes sweets both at the beginning and the end of every government". While you are addressing the problem of corruption or rigging (hypothetically) how do you address the problem of stability no matter what government or what forms of government comes to power? You are so used to subverting constitutions (plural as so many rewrites have happened every few years) I doubt even a new, great one will be adhered to

 

[godzilla]

Well you need some kind of stability anyway. So if not allowing the current government to exist then what next? I have a question for you

Even if you have a caretaker government in place and then hold fresh elections, how do you gaurantee stability? It is still going to be a long, long fight, isn't it? All of the problems you stated, inflation, poverty, corruption is not going to be solved overnight because of fresh elections. So do tell me, what makes you think the country will have more patience this time? That a new savior will not come up and lead more impatient people and bring that government down?

At the current moment I have a feeling the public doesn't even care for slow improvements. So it is very likely that tomorrow some more rumors about corruption, some dubious reports will again start a new revolution because most people will not be able to perceive the slow improvements in things. The same Imran who is now a savior will become the villain then

I read a quote on an article in dawn which said, "Pakistan is the only country which distributes sweets both at the beginning and the end of every government". While you are addressing the problem of corruption or rigging (hypothetically) how do you address the problem of stability no matter what government or what forms of government comes to power? You are so used to subverting constitutions (plural as so many rewrites have happened every few years) I doubt even a new, great one will be adhered to

thats an excellent question which ill answer unlike youre dodging of the same questions repeatedly asked of you.

stability for stability sake is no target to aim for - mubarak is the obvious example along with any other tin pot banana republic fixedly elected leader in the past fifty years or so. what is needed is stability of good governance, not stability of bad governance. what defines good and bad governance - as a laymans first blush at answering that, good = corruption free, bad = corrupt.

so if a new corrupt free (significantly relatively speaking) is strong armed in, how do we guarantee it stays there? we cant guarantee it of course, but conviction is based on the following observations:

1) its extremely rare for a public uprising not be backed by a significant number of the population. if the pmln are over thrown, this will be the reason, not a few hundred or a few thousand protestors in islamabad - that seems like a very obvious comment that the pro-"democracy-at-any-cost-or form" proponents seem quite happy to ignore. if it were simply a case of only a handful of people, the goivernment could and would ignore it, as they do throughout the world in anti-war protests for example. so if agitators begin besiege the new government, nothing will likely happen. if there is a second counter public uprising, backed by the pubic and after enough time has been given to the incumbent government, then it will and should be overthrown - on a principle of democracy (in the literal sense) if nothing else.

2) its very rare in history that a popular uprising which is successful is usurped by others, or that it opens the door to a revolving door protest-leading-change in government. this fact lends credence to the first point - a protest to be effective needs to be popular.

3) why do i think there is potential for it to be 'different this time'? there are a billion articles on the pmln and ppp in terms of corruption and the billions of dollars of wealth they have stolen from the land. both leaders of each party are convicted criminals who have spnt time in jail. in contrast, should imran win in a fair election, he has sacrificed power, family, wealth for the principle of democratic rule in pakistan and has a pristine clean sheet on corruption that even his opponents freely admit.

4) its a very fair point that you make that people are impatient (perhaps as a result of people being stupid by and large, a significant fault in the whole concept of democracy) - and so there may be future reports that put a hypothetical pti government at risk. once again, tehre are no guarantees that this wouldnt happen - the only evidence we have to go on is what he has done in kpk - the immediate de-corrupting of various institutions and the significant and stark progress the province has seen. thats no guarantee that he would be able to replicate the same on a national level, but its enough to put stock in the hope that he can, particularly in light of the performance of his two main rivals - the pmln and ppp.

ultimately, from a point of view or morality and practicality, on an absolute and relative basis, its a no brainer decision. theres very few logical reasons why anyone would disagree. as far as i can see, those would predominantly include a vested financial interest in those two parties, or some form of trolling by way of arguing minutiae.

its clear too that given the extensive history and evidence, further governance by either the pmln or ppp is more than likely to lead the country to ruin, a failed state is a very significant thing - which would be a disaster both for it, and its neighbours.

 

[anakin]

1) its extremely rare for a public uprising not be backed by a significant number of the population. if the pmln are over thrown, this will be the reason, not a few hundred or a few thousand protestors in islamabad - that seems like a very obvious comment that the pro-"democracy-at-any-cost-or form" proponents seem quite happy to ignore. if it were simply a case of only a handful of people, the goivernment could and would ignore it, as they do throughout the world in anti-war protests for example. so if agitators begin besiege the new government, nothing will likely happen. if there is a second counter public uprising, backed by the pubic and after enough time has been given to the incumbent government, then it will and should be overthrown - on a principle of democracy (in the literal sense) if nothing else.

2) its very rare in history that a popular uprising which is successful is usurped by others, or that it opens the door to a revolving door protest-leading-change in government. this fact lends credence to the first point - a protest to be effective needs to be popular.

3) why do i think there is potential for it to be 'different this time'? there are a billion articles on the pmln and ppp in terms of corruption and the billions of dollars of wealth they have stolen from the land. both leaders of each party are convicted criminals who have spnt time in jail. in contrast, should imran win in a fair election, he has sacrificed power, family, wealth for the principle of democratic rule in pakistan and has a pristine clean sheet on corruption that even his opponents freely admit.

4) its a very fair point that you make that people are impatient (perhaps as a result of people being stupid by and large, a significant fault in the whole concept of democracy) - and so there may be future reports that put a hypothetical pti government at risk. once again, tehre are no guarantees that this wouldnt happen - the only evidence we have to go on is what he has done in kpk - the immediate de-corrupting of various institutions and the significant and stark progress the province has seen. thats no guarantee that he would be able to replicate the same on a national level, but its enough to put stock in the hope that he can, particularly in light of the performance of his two main rivals - the pmln and ppp.



its clear too that given the extensive history and evidence, further governance by either the pmln or ppp is more than likely to lead the country to ruin, a failed state is a very significant thing - which would be a disaster both for it, and its neighbours.

1. There is a system of elections and tenure, you dont simply jump to street to throw down Corrupt Governments.
India 2014 elections is an example

Sainthood being granted to Imran Khan is a dangerous road to walk on,
History has deadly examples in Hitler and Mussolini,
So whatever you are saying is that Hitler and Mussolini were perfectly right,
They had minority number of seats in the parliament, they claimed rigging, went on Marches and brought down their respective governments.

If Imran Khan is a real champion of democracy, so were Hitler and Mussolini.

Respect the laws of the land, to earn the right of the becoming a true defender of democracy.
Trampling the very core principles of democracy will only bring out dictators nothing more.

BTW, Hitler and Mussolini, did bring drastic improvements to their countries only to trip into World War II.

 

[PTI]

 

[godzilla]

1. There is a system of elections and tenure, you dont simply jump to street to throw down Corrupt Governments.
India 2014 elections is an example

Sainthood being granted to Imran Khan is a dangerous road to walk on,
History has deadly examples in Hitler and Mussolini,
So whatever you are saying is that Hitler and Mussolini were perfectly right,
They had minority number of seats in the parliament, they claimed rigging, went on Marches and brought down their respective governments.

If Imran Khan is a real champion of democracy, so were Hitler and Mussolini.

Respect the laws of the land, to earn the right of the becoming a true defender of democracy.
Trampling the very core principles of democracy will only bring out dictators nothing more.

BTW, Hitler and Mussolini, did bring drastic improvements to their countries only to trip into World War II.

i dont understand why simple points are so blatantly ignored. its clearly not as simple as that - if youre making the comparison of imran and hitler on account of an uprising, hitlers was democratic he was voted in in 32 - its far more an indictment of this hallowed democratic system than it is of imran, paricularly when the one most defining element of the mussolini and hitler regimes were not an uprising - theres been millions of those in social history, but it was fascism, which is missing here - its a really immensely stupid comparison.

and why shouldnt you "simply jump to street to throw down Corrupt Governments"? if democratic and constitutional methods have failed to produce results, theres swathes of evidence that not only rigging but ethics monitoring institutions and the judiciary are in cahoots with the government, what evidence is there to suggest that this would eventually go away? if anything, pakistani political history would suggest it wont go away.

what you havent addressed, as with everyone in your position it seems, is what about the faux democracies prior to the arab spring, or russia with putin, or venezuela with chavez, mugabe, iran? the list is far longer than a speculative link missing the essential and pivotal element of fascism and they didnt work out at all well for anyone wanting to 'work within the system' - why wont you address this simple point? why is it that the status quo is more like the third Reich than the arab democratic demagogues?

why wont you address the simple point that given the bulging monetary deficit, rampant inflation and the resulting poverty and illiteracy, time isnt a luxury, there are no limitless political seasons that we can wait for for the phoenix of justice to emerge - wealth cannot be continued to be bled from the country by corrupt politicians, its already hurtling towards bankrupcy as it is, and a failed state is looming on the horizon.

the comparison of the pti with fascist regimes is ridiculous. but dont take my word for it, take the opinion of an english professor of modern history: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/03/opinion/03iht-edkershaw.1.9700744.html?_r=0

ironically, as bizarre as your association is, the combination of the ppp and pmln have contrived to create an economic environment that is approaching the degree of decrepitude and disease that spawned authoritarian fascist regimes in the past - all the more reason to get rid of them before the isis types come to town, rather than watching from the hilltops as they currently are, and another reason why there isnt this oodles of time that so many of you seem to think pakistan has.

 

[Strike Rate]

This is going to happen soon!!!

 

[Strike Rate]

 

[Strike Rate]

PTI Ministers of KPK this is Naya Pakistan! tabdeeli aa nae rahi tabdeeli aa gae hai PTI says no to VIP culture

 

[waqar goraya]

After Nigeria, Pakistan is the most corrupt country in the world - Amnesty International 1996

Just to put things into perspective that politicians have themselves been corrupt and insincere.

 

[KarachiKing]

IK set for a grand welcome in Khi!

Inshallah no security mishap!

 

[Waseem]

Hahahaha....This is EXACTLY how the argument usually flows. It's always Sharif's corruption vs Imran's playboy image. Only difference is Nawaz hasn't changed in last 25 or so years.

By the Congratulations to people, NAB has cleared Nawaz Sharif family from Hudaibiya paper mills case, this always happens when Sharifs are in the government. Jamhooriyat ko nachor nachor k kaun pee raha hai ab??

 

[Fastandfurious]

Imran might have lost democracy supporters but he has gained many a PTI supporters, especially the youth.

 

[Waseem]

Imran might have lost democracy supporters but he has gained many a PTI supporters, especially the youth.

Democracy will only strengthen on long term due to awareness created by these protests. I still believe Imran should go back to parliament and grill these thugs there with guarantee that there will be honest investigations into rigging claims. Let's move on!!!

 

[PTI]

 

[Indiafan]

BTW, Quereshi has admitted that Qadir and Imran did meet up in London and planned this together. Worrying signs that you meet up someone who is not a resident to overthrow your own government

 

[PTI]

BTW, Quereshi has admitted that Qadir and Imran did meet up in London and planned this together. Worrying signs that you meet up someone who is not a resident to overthrow your own government

Though i may not agree with views of qadri but he has one of the most committed followers in pakistan.IK meet him to bring in reforms in current system.This system gives nothing to a common pakistani.Its not about overthrowing a government because NS just needs to resign for one month and if rigging is not proved then he can come back and continue as PM of pakistan and during this one month still NS party will be the ruling party.
Also Altaf is running his party sitting in england for decades now but no one feel concerned about it even though his party is ruling party in sindh for many years.

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

is it 5000 or 6000 people ?

 

[Strike Rate]

is it 5000 or 6000 people ?

I think 5500

 

[Vegitto1]

more like 500 - fail jalsa

 

[ehjaz]

more like 500 - fail jalsa

Which one? In Islamabad or Karachi?

 

[Bewal Express]

BTW, Quereshi has admitted that Qadir and Imran did meet up in London and planned this together. Worrying signs that you meet up someone who is not a resident to overthrow your own government

No it's not, they haven't done anything illegal. Didnt BB and NS also meet to overthrow an illegal govt?

 

[Strike Rate]

BTW, Quereshi has admitted that Qadir and Imran did meet up in London and planned this together. Worrying signs that you meet up someone who is not a resident to overthrow your own government

I hope you know that America was involved in the deal between Musharraf, PMLN and PPP for getting them back in country. So if americans can be involved in our internal politics than why not Qadri who was a MP of Pakistan Parliament in 2002-2004 and got this Canadian nationality after that period when he moved to Canada.

 

[Indiafan]

No it's not, they haven't done anything illegal. Didnt BB and NS also meet to overthrow an illegal govt?

I hope you know that America was involved in the deal between Musharraf, PMLN and PPP for getting them back in country. So if americans can be involved in our internal politics than why not Qadri who was a MP of Pakistan Parliament in 2002-2004 and got this Canadian nationality after that period when he moved to Canada.

I don't think so things were right either

 

[PTI]

IK while boarding from karachi to islamabad at the airport

 

[PTI]

Senior PTI leaders standing in Queue while boarding for Islamabad tonight.

 

[PTI]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>An incredible show of force by Imran Khan in Karachi. Rock solid jalsa <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PTIAzadiMarch?src=hash">#PTIAzadiMarch</a></p>— Fahd Husain (@Fahdhusain) <a href="https://twitter.com/Fahdhusain/status/513691064952041472">September 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Strike Rate]

IK while boarding from karachi to islamabad at the airport

haha staff busy in taking IK photos lol

 

[PTI]

Anyone remember Gulsher?

 

[Strike Rate]

Anyone remember Gulsher?

Oh is he still in Army or retired? he was a major in Army

 

[Strike Rate]

Always a pleasure listening Hassan Sahab. This is the clip of his today program.

<iframe frameborder="0" width="480" height="270" src="//www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x26dhsj" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[zimmz]

Look what he did to GEO today...

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

You don't understand how modern dictatorships work. You no longer arrest, oppose or react to protests. Instead you ignore them and let them fizzle out. You let the opposition devolve into arguments over details, while continuing to shower everyone else with propaganda. You realize that once people have had their protest and felt like they've "done something", they lose most of their energy. They've done their part now, they don't have to feel guilty for being idle standers-by.
The same works in very well in the US, just look at the Tea Party and OWS. Both started as narrowly focused movements directly targeted at a corrupt financial system. And both were eventually co-opted and transformed into vague, directionless generalized political movements, one by the right and one by the left. Tea Party became about "guns, gays and God" and OWS about "the 99%", which was never its original message. Both fizzled and became nothing

 

[Fastandfurious]

Anyone remember Gulsher?

Ye man, miss those days watching Alpha Bravo Charlie.

 

[Mamoon]

Really good show in Karachi, but if he tries to hold similar political gatherings in Larkana, Sukkur, Nawabshah, Shikarpur, Naudero, Badin etc, he will realize how little support he has in interior Sindh, almost nonexistent.

 

[Strike Rate]

Really good show in Karachi, but if he tries to hold similar political gatherings in Larkana, Sukkur, Nawabshah, Shikarpur, Naudero, Badin etc, he will realize how little support he has in interior Sindh, almost nonexistent.

You missed PTI jalsa in Larkana few days ago just Shah mehmood qureshi was there not even IK and that Jalsa was in hurry qureshi announced at night and reach there in morning. Here is a picture

 

[Mamoon]

Yeah, seems like a massive crowd, something Nawaz will never achieve in Larkana.

 

[Waseem]

lol not sure why they would invite Hasan Nisar to comment on this?? As an anchor, it's very tough to invite someone like Hasan Nisar to comment on such issues because he feels so strongly about them that he loses his patience.
Won't be long before Hasan Nisar is either asked to leave Geo or he will resign himself.

 

[UsmanhailsAfridi]

Governer Punjab...egg on PMLN government

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x26cxku_gvrnrpnjb_news?start=1

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Well its good that he realized that there was nothing for him in it by staying on a container in Islamabad.

At least by moving to Karachi he attracted a bigger crowd than container workshop in Islamabad.

Kudos to him on that front.

 

[Sakss]

What I dont understand is why Saad Rafiq keeps on butting in matters which are not related to him. He is a railway minister and should not be allowed to speak about X Y Z issues.

If Imran and Qadri met in London. I don't see why it should be recorded and publicized its none of anyone's business if two individuals meet privately , specially when no written agreement regarding anything took place

 

[Sakss]

Use of decades-old printing machines caused ballot paper errors



The committee was shocked to learn that the Printing Corporation of Pakistan (PCP) used 66-year-old machines to print the ballot papers for the 2013 general elections. “It was quite astonishing for all of us that the outdated machines used by PCP had caused several problems and led to errors in ballot papers,” Senator Mushahid Hussain Syed, a member of the committee, told Dawn on Sunday.

On Friday, the committee was briefed by officials from several key departments involved in the electoral process, including the National Database and Registration Authority (Nadra), the Election Commission of Pakistan (ECP), the PCP and the Pakistan Council of Scientific and Industrial Research.

During the briefings, the committee raised questions around the use of magnetic ink. They inquired why Nadra and ECP insisted that voters only use the expensive ink to stamp ballot papers.

“We said that if such expensive ink did not serve the purpose, then why it was used in the first place? We have also asked (the departments) to explain what is special about this ink and how it was used to ensure transparency in the elections,” Mr Hussain said.

The committee will now be briefed on these points in its next meeting, expected to be held on September 29.

The meeting also found that there were complications in the election process and that staff deputed at polling stations was often not properly trained. “Election Commission staff at the polling stations did not know how to properly guide voters or address their complaints,” Mr Hussain said.

An ECP source also said that staff inefficiency had caused several problems and errors at polling stations during the elections.

The source said the meeting gave serious consideration to the allegations and concerns raised by the PTI and decided to review them thoroughly. All departments concerned have been asked to submit a point-by-point response to the allegations at the next meeting, which may also be open to the media.

The committee also asked the ECP to explain whether ballot papers were printed from a private printing press in Urdu Bazaar, Lahore, as claimed by the PTI.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1133466/electoral-reforms-committee-sees-problems-in-2013-polls

 

[saadibaba]

What I dont understand is why Saad Rafiq keeps on butting in matters which are not related to him. He is a railway minister and should not be allowed to speak about X Y Z issues.

If Imran and Qadri met in London. I don't see why it should be recorded and publicized its none of anyone's business if two individuals meet privately , specially when no written agreement regarding anything took place

Two people meet in secret as even the information secretary doesn't get to know about it. Both went on a dharna, somehow coincidentally on the same date...both somehow managed to converge on the red zone in Islamabad around the same time....both for some reason tried to protest outside the Parliament House the same time....then one fine day....they started sharing the same stage. Hmmmm.......sounds like a conspiracy to topple the govt. to me.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[anakin]

What I dont understand is why Saad Rafiq keeps on butting in matters which are not related to him. He is a railway minister and should not be allowed to speak about X Y Z issues.

If Imran and Qadri met in London. I don't see why it should be recorded and publicized its none of anyone's business if two individuals meet privately , specially when no written agreement regarding anything took place

Imran and Qadri are public leaders, so Pakistan public should be aware of such meetings.
But Coming from PML-N, makes it a point worth laughing about.

 

[anakin]

Use of decades-old printing machines caused ballot paper errors



The committee was shocked to learn that the Printing Corporation of Pakistan (PCP) used 66-year-old machines to print the ballot papers for the 2013 general elections. “It was quite astonishing for all of us that the outdated machines used by PCP had caused several problems and led to errors in ballot papers,” Senator Mushahid Hussain Syed, a member of the committee, told Dawn on Sunday.

On Friday, the committee was briefed by officials from several key departments involved in the electoral process, including the National Database and Registration Authority (Nadra), the Election Commission of Pakistan (ECP), the PCP and the Pakistan Council of Scientific and Industrial Research.

During the briefings, the committee raised questions around the use of magnetic ink. They inquired why Nadra and ECP insisted that voters only use the expensive ink to stamp ballot papers.

“We said that if such expensive ink did not serve the purpose, then why it was used in the first place? We have also asked (the departments) to explain what is special about this ink and how it was used to ensure transparency in the elections,” Mr Hussain said.

The committee will now be briefed on these points in its next meeting, expected to be held on September 29.

The meeting also found that there were complications in the election process and that staff deputed at polling stations was often not properly trained. “Election Commission staff at the polling stations did not know how to properly guide voters or address their complaints,” Mr Hussain said.

An ECP source also said that staff inefficiency had caused several problems and errors at polling stations during the elections.

The source said the meeting gave serious consideration to the allegations and concerns raised by the PTI and decided to review them thoroughly. All departments concerned have been asked to submit a point-by-point response to the allegations at the next meeting, which may also be open to the media.

The committee also asked the ECP to explain whether ballot papers were printed from a private printing press in Urdu Bazaar, Lahore, as claimed by the PTI.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1133466/electoral-reforms-committee-sees-problems-in-2013-polls

On a very geniune point, Pakistan should learn from India's electoral system,
Our cultures and politics are not very dissimilar.
Pakistan should send people for training in the electoral systems,
Move to compulsory photoID's, Electronic Voting machines and all.
In many ways, Indian election system beats the more advanced countries easily.

 

[Sakss]

On a very geniune point, Pakistan should learn from India's electoral system,
Our cultures and politics are not very dissimilar.
Pakistan should send people for training in the electoral systems,
Move to compulsory photoID's, Electronic Voting machines and all.
In many ways, Indian election system beats the more advanced countries easily.

I bet Afghanistan just had better and successful elections

 

[Sakss]

Imran and Qadri are public leaders, so Pakistan public should be aware of such meetings.
But Coming from PML-N, makes it a point worth laughing about.

I understand where you are coming from . BUt Saad Rafiq has no right being a railway minister so open his mouth about other matters. Why doesnt Nawaz speak up if he has an issue

 

[anakin]

I understand where you are coming from . BUt Saad Rafiq has no right being a railway minister so open his mouth about other matters. Why doesnt Nawaz speak up if he has an issue

Any citizen of the country should be openly allowed to question any tactic of the political parties.
The only ironic thing is, that PML-N is not exactly a flag bearer of transparency themselves.
But the question is still a legitimate one, even though the intention of the questioning is far from decent one.

 

[anakin]

I bet Afghanistan just had better and successful elections

Are we looking for war-torn Afghanistan as a benchmark for democracy in Pakistan??

 

[Saqs]

So he has gone to Karachi and left his container?

What's the latest on the stalemate?

 

[DHONI183]

Are we looking for war-torn Afghanistan as a benchmark for democracy in Pakistan??

I don´t think so. I think he was referring to the holding of fair elections in particular.

So he has gone to Karachi and left his container?

No. He was back yesterday evening itself.

 

[anakin]

I don´t think so. I think he was referring to the holding of fair elections in particular.

With the all the news about allegations about Afghan elections too, I thought there was some sarcasm.

But still a great achievement by Afghanistan to have held an election in such troubled times.
Kudos to Karzai for stepping down from power, still the power sharing agreement sounds too shady.

 

[the Great Khan]

You don't understand how modern dictatorships work. You no longer arrest, oppose or react to protests. Instead you ignore them and let them fizzle out. You let the opposition devolve into arguments over details, while continuing to shower everyone else with propaganda. You realize that once people have had their protest and felt like they've "done something", they lose most of their energy. They've done their part now, they don't have to feel guilty for being idle standers-by.
The same works in very well in the US, just look at the Tea Party and OWS. Both started as narrowly focused movements directly targeted at a corrupt financial system. And both were eventually co-opted and transformed into vague, directionless generalized political movements, one by the right and one by the left. Tea Party became about "guns, gays and God" and OWS about "the 99%", which was never its original message. Both fizzled and became nothing

the difference is western govts can afford to do this because a) they know they provide the majority of their population with the basics,
b) they also know that at the end of the day as long as you get the basics most people are pretty happy c) most people get angry but because they get the basics they can afford to wait for the next election campaign and make a choice.

but what happens if you don't get the basics? you come home, there's no water, bijli, job, there's corruption, you get pummeled by the rich and ignored by the politicians. You see that Imran failed and you get angrier because you think "well he couldn't do it peacefully so we're gonna do it our way now". Hence the anger we saw on that PIA plane then gets out of hand.

 

[exposer]

Wow!! Now you will not follow the Legislature, you will not obey court order(that is not to your liking), Administration... no body cares.

Mob Rule.... thats Anarchy my dear friend .. not democracy.

Constitution is a small text covering the laws of the land, the only authority to interpret the constitution with any legal standing are the courts. That is very much in the Constitution.
In terms of the laws, you are very much in the negative.
Morally your stand might be right, but morally right doesnt mean legally right. Thats a distinction you need to understand.
Courts have the authority and i think wisdom enough, to interpret the law and have that interpretation as morally right as possible.

Its very funny and ironic to see, IK accepting court orders which are in his favor, but completely disregarding others which seem to disagree with him.

A negotiation in a hostage stand-off doesnt justify the stand of the hijackers.

bro, contrary to country like india you´ve prolly got no idea how courts work in our country even after the post musharraf era with this azaad judiciary nonsense.

go & study pm gilani´s resignation ordered by supreme court & the whole episode. i think it might be something historic for you to study.

basically, chief justice demanded the pm to do something which word by word, in exact clause goes against the constitution of pakistan. PM gilani obeyed the const. over the CJ & the guy was sacked.