Russia highly likely to be behind poisoning of spy, says Theresa May

[cricketjoshila]

These incidents are always a reminder that the former British Empire is now simply Britain. Still a nuclear-armed country with a widely spoken language, a tremendous profile and a truly global legacy, however in political terms she has aged, shrunk, and become very much the vulnerable old crone on a walking stick. Currently Russia, China and the US wield and project all of the power, and this is unlikely to change for at least the next 25 years.

Britain herself is to be blamed for this.

 

[Robert]

These incidents are always a reminder that the former British Empire is now simply Britain. Still a nuclear-armed country with a widely spoken language, a tremendous profile and a truly global legacy, however in political terms she has aged, shrunk, and become very much the vulnerable old crone on a walking stick. Currently Russia, China and the US wield and project all of the power, and this is unlikely to change for at least the next 25 years.

I read a stat that in terms of head of population, Britain is the most influential nation.

- permanent seat at the UNSC
- Trident
- Special Relationship with the US (they the muscle, we the brains in terms of intel gathering)
- Atlantic Bridge between USA and EU
- core decision maker in the EU
- diplomatic links through the Commonwealth

Sadly Britain has chosen to diminish its soft power through Brexit.

 

[Robert]

I wouldn't put it past being a false flag.

What on Earth would be the point?

Try to think of a way that would benefit the U.K. in the slightest.

There is none. The POTUS seems to be Putin’s creature, we are leaving the EU so no support there, and numerous Ministers have Russian business interests so are politically compromised. BP owns most of the Russian gas industry.

 

[R3verse Swing]

What on Earth would be the point?

Try to think of a way that would benefit the U.K. in the slightest.

There is none. The POTUS seems to be Putin’s creature, we are leaving the EU so no support there, and numerous Ministers have Russian business interests so are politically compromised. BP owns most of the Russian gas industry.

A false flag would be for the purpose of provoking Russia. UK just got played in the middle. Nothing in it to benefit UK.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Well France has attacked May!

France undermined Theresa May’s attempts to build a consensus for punitive action against Russia last night by accusing her of punishing the regime prematurely.

President Macron’s spokesman derided Mrs May’s decision to act against Moscow after the Salisbury poisonings as “fantasy politics”. Shortly after the prime minister announced the expulsion of 23 Russian diplomats and the suspension of bilateral talks, Benjamin Griveaux told a news conference in Paris: “Once the elements are proven then the time will come for decisions to be made.” He said that the poisoning of Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia was a “serious act” on a strategic ally but France would await evidence of Russian involvement before taking a position.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a40d1378-27d9-11e8-acc5-262aff1ca7a6

 

[Robert]

A false flag would be for the purpose of provoking Russia. UK just got played in the middle. Nothing in it to benefit UK.

Ok, what would be the point of Israel antagonising her ally Britain?

 

[R3verse Swing]

Ok, what would be the point of Israel antagonising her ally Britain?

No mate you are not getting it. It's all about antagonising and provoking Russia!

 

[TM Riddle]

Nikki Haley joins the club. Honestly I highly doubt if it's gonna achieve anything meaningful apart from usual blame game with both sides passing provocative comments and the issue would die out in few weeks. I mean NATO just sat and watch helplessly while Russia meddled in Ukraine annexing Crimea in the process. Putin is unstoppable!

 

[R3verse Swing]

Russia 'will expel British diplomats soon'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43412702

 

[Robert]

No mate you are not getting it. It's all about antagonising and provoking Russia!

You’re right, I’m not getting it. Who do you think is antagonising and provoking Russia, and for what reason?

 

[Robert]

Nikki Haley joins the club. Honestly I highly doubt if it's gonna achieve anything meaningful apart from usual blame game with both sides passing provocative comments and the issue would die out in few weeks. I mean NATO just sat and watch helplessly while Russia meddled in Ukraine annexing Crimea in the process. Putin is unstoppable!

Ukraine is not a NATO state. They were talking about joining, but Putin jumped in first.

Putin is clever at carrying out asymmetric warfare at a level which does not trigger Article 5 at NATO.

But look at the NATO buildup in the Baltic states. If he tries anything there he will run into hot war with NATO forces and he will lose.

 

[www787]

So Russia eliminated an ex-spy for probably betraying.
What’s the problem?
Israel, USA and Britain or any other country could and probably would have done the same if they deemed their national security was at risk.

 

[R3verse Swing]

You’re right, I’m not getting it. Who do you think is antagonising and provoking Russia, and for what reason?

To set the pretext for war.

 

[Robert]

To set the pretext for war.

Who is antagonising Russia to set the pretext for war?

 

[Robert]

So Russia eliminated an ex-spy for probably betraying.
What’s the problem?
Israel, USA and Britain or any other country could and probably would have done the same if they deemed their national security was at risk.

The problem is that twenty British innocent bystanders have been poisoned. If it was another polonium umbrella job there would be no real outcry.

 

[Robert]

Well France has attacked May!



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a40d1378-27d9-11e8-acc5-262aff1ca7a6

Now France, Germany and the USA have stated that there is no plausible alternative explanation to Russia.

 

[www787]

The problem is that twenty British innocent bystanders have been poisoned. If it was another polonium umbrella job there would be no real outcry.

Outcry is just an outcry when Britain can't do much about it other then Outcry. Sending back diplomats wouldn't do much when Britain and other European nations need Russia more than Russia need them.

 

[Robert]

Outcry is just an outcry when Britain can't do much about it other then Outcry. Sending back diplomats wouldn't do much when Britain and other European nations need Russia more than Russia need them.

Not just degrading of Russian intel capability, but also some seizure of oligarch assets and cancellation of visas. Deny them London as a playground and their access to financial services.

BP owns most of the Russian gas industry. Of course Putin could just seize those assets in turn, but this would isolate Russia as a location for investment at a time when their economy is in the tank and they are spending far too much on defence at the expense of public services.

 

[www787]

Not just degrading of Russian intel capability, but also some seizure of oligarch assets and cancellation of visas. Deny them London as a playground and their access to financial services.

BP owns most of the Russian gas industry. Of course Putin could just seize those assets in turn, but this would isolate Russia as a location for investment at a time when their economy is in the tank and they are spending far too much on defence at the expense of public services.

I am sure Putin calculated all of that in the equation before giving a green light to execution.

 

[Robert]

I am sure Putin calculated all of that in the equation before giving a green light to execution.

I think he just decided to poke a NATO nation in the chest once again, to see how it would respond. Testing British response time and political will. Seeing how many Labour MPs will follow the Corbyn appeasement line, and how many will stand up.

Having been shoved back, he may decide to pick on someone else.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Who is antagonising Russia to set the pretext for war?

If Russia respond through force, that's it. It's the green light for Western forces.

Russia is being goaded into a response.

No one has answered the question why would Russia do such a thing and leave a trail of bread crumbs back to Russia? For what purpose?

As for who, Mossad.

 

[Robert]

If Russia respond through force, that's it. It's the green light for Western forces.

Russia is being goaded into a response.

No one has answered the question why would Russia do such a thing and leave a trail of bread crumbs back to Russia? For what purpose?

As for who, Mossad.

Pointless for Mossad. Israel has nothing to gain from a European shooting war.

As for Russia - to take out a traitor, and keep poking Britain in the chest, testing our strength, as bullies do.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Pointless for Mossad. Israel has nothing to gain from a European shooting war.

As for Russia - to take out a traitor, and keep poking Britain in the chest, testing our strength, as bullies do.

Pointless for Mossad? Not when you take into consideration the banking system of Europe.

War is money.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Now France, Germany and the USA have stated that there is no plausible alternative explanation to Russia.

My man, no plausible alternative is not the same as conclusive proof.

This isn't Occam Razor.

 

[KingKhanWC]

What on Earth would be the point?

Try to think of a way that would benefit the U.K. in the slightest.

There is none. The POTUS seems to be Putin’s creature, we are leaving the EU so no support there, and numerous Ministers have Russian business interests so are politically compromised. BP owns most of the Russian gas industry.

I think firstly we have to look at why Russia would do this?


1. Sergei Skripal was imprisoned in Russia and it was Russia who decided to let him go(swap). Russia would not allow him to be free if he was any threat to them or had any information which could be passed on to the UK.

2. Russia has the World Cup coming up and it's elections, it's not in Putin's interests to have such negative publicity when these events are taking place.



Why I wouldn't rule out a false flag. Possible reasons.

1. May could do with the news shifting from Brexit, she is clueless atm.

2. Sergei Skripal was visiting the Russian embassy on a regular basis. A bit strange for a traitor to be in regular contact with the Russians while living in Britain? Perhaps he was working for them again, against Britain?

3. Porton Down which is a 'secret' military complex which produces chemical weapons is only a few miles from Skripals house. A coincdence?

4. Nato inc the UK have been wanting to stop Putin for many years, he has embarrased them many times in places such as Crimea and Syria. It may have been an opporutinty for them before the elections and world cup.

5. Skripal was hit at his house, not on the sreets or at any resurants. As far as Im aware Skirpal, his daughter and a police officer are the only ones in real danger, all were present at his house. The public are all fine, it was sensanatlised to portray this as an attack on the UK.

 

[Markhor]

Outcry is just an outcry when Britain can't do much about it other then Outcry. Sending back diplomats wouldn't do much when Britain and other European nations need Russia more than Russia need them.

There are large amounts of Russian money that flows through British overseas territories in the Caribbean and then is transferred to London.

There are thousands of Russian-owned properties in London alone that these oligarchs buy up and drive up prices making housing affordable for millions of working class Britons.

There is real leverage that the Government has, but the Conservative Party will not do any substantial financial sanctions because their banker buddies in the City of London get rich thanks to dirty Russian money, and these Russian-linked companies and oligarchs have contributed at least £3 MILLION to the Party coffers since 2010.

 

[cricketjoshila]

There are large amounts of Russian money that flows through British overseas territories in the Caribbean and then is transferred to London.

There are thousands of Russian-owned properties in London alone that these oligarchs buy up and drive up prices making housing affordable for millions of working class Britons.

There is real leverage that the Government has, but the Conservative Party will not do any substantial financial sanctions because their banker buddies in the City of London get rich thanks to dirty Russian money, and these Russian-linked companies and oligarchs have contributed at least £3 MILLION to the Party coffers since 2010.

Will the British Govt confiscate Chelsea FC?

Can the British Govt carry out a similar *** for tat attack in Russia?

 

[Robert]

I think firstly we have to look at why Russia would do this?


1. Sergei Skripal was imprisoned in Russia and it was Russia who decided to let him go(swap). Russia would not allow him to be free if he was any threat to them or had any information which could be passed on to the UK.

2. Russia has the World Cup coming up and it's elections, it's not in Putin's interests to have such negative publicity when these events are taking place.



Why I wouldn't rule out a false flag. Possible reasons.

1. May could do with the news shifting from Brexit, she is clueless atm.

2. Sergei Skripal was visiting the Russian embassy on a regular basis. A bit strange for a traitor to be in regular contact with the Russians while living in Britain? Perhaps he was working for them again, against Britain?

3. Porton Down which is a 'secret' military complex which produces chemical weapons is only a few miles from Skripals house. A coincdence?

4. Nato inc the UK have been wanting to stop Putin for many years, he has embarrased them many times in places such as Crimea and Syria. It may have been an opporutinty for them before the elections and world cup.

5. Skripal was hit at his house, not on the sreets or at any resurants. As far as Im aware Skirpal, his daughter and a police officer are the only ones in real danger, all were present at his house. The public are all fine, it was sensanatlised to portray this as an attack on the UK.

Too far-fetched.

There are easier ways to distract from Brexitshambles than confrontation with a hostile nuclear power - stir up Islamophobia, for example. The U.K. would never release a chemical weapon against its own citizens. If the security services wanted to eliminate someone they would do it quietly and cleanly. This is too sloppy. If they wanted to frame Russia with no collateral damage they would have used a polonium umbrella.

 

[MenInG]

Gavin Williamsonhas urged Russia to “go away and shut up” when asked how the Kremlin should respond to the of its spies.

The defence secretary’s outburst came in a question and answer session after a speech in Bristol. Williamson, who has established a reputation for being pugnacious, also took a swipe at Jeremy Corbyn, accusing him of failing to unite behind the government’s approach to the .

With the government braced to see over the expulsions and other measures announced by Theresa May in the House of Commons on Wednesday, Williamson said: “What we will do is we will look at how Russia responds to what we have done. It is absolutely atrocious and outrageous what Russia did in Salisbury. We have responded to that.


Guardian Today: the headlines, the analysis, the debate - sent direct to you
Read more
“Frankly, Russia should go away and should shut up.”

Asked about Corbyn, who had warned against jumping to conclusions about who was to blame for the Salisbury attack, Williamson said it was time for the country to unite.

“You see it in the House of Commons and you listen to members of parliament from all parties on the backbenches. That is what they are wanting to see: Britain standing together against this great threat,” he said.

In his prepared speech, Williamson accused Russia of “ripping up the international rulebook” through a series of actions aimed at subverting countries around the world.

Williamson said Russia followed up these acts by using social media to muddy the waters.

The defence secretary used his first keynote speech since taking the post to warn of a growing threat posed by Russia and make the case for increased UK defence spending.

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He said Russia, at a time when its economy is under pressure, is still prioritising military expenditure, investing in surface-to-air missiles, T-90 tanks, advanced submarines, long-range ballistic missiles, strategic bombers and nuclear systems.

“What is also clear is that the Kremlin is using its growing hybrid capabilities to subvert, undermine and influence countries around the world,” he said.

“Its cyber operations are active and brazen. It uses social media to muddy the waters and spread confusion. Last year, Russia’s military intelligence organisation directed the NotPetya ransomware activity, overwhelming systems in Ukraine, from its power grid to its postal service, and causing hundreds of millions of pounds of damage to companies around the world, including here in the UK.”

Williamson, who was speaking at a Rolls-Royce facility, said: “But Russia is capable of much more. It is already increasingly using proxies to undermine sovereign states. Its involvement in the Ukraine conflict has cost thousands of lives.”

In Syria, he said, there is a humanitarian crisis in which Russia is using private military companies to reduce the state’s liability.

“Meanwhile, Russia is also using its operatives insidiously to interfere in the political processes of other nations. Security authorities have compelling evidence to show Russia was involved in the attempted 2016 coup in Montenegro, just prior to that country’s accession to Nato.

“And, if we doubted the threat Russia poses to our citizens, we only have to look at the shocking example of their reckless attack in Salisbury.”

Williamson, who used the speech to announce funding for a new chemical defence centre at the Porton Down military facility and say thousands of UK troops will be offered anthrax vaccines to help them deploy faster in the event of a chemical attack, said Britain had a proud military history and continued to be active across the world, including “policing eastern European skies against a resurgent danger from Russia”.

“Our soldiers stand sentinel with our Nato allies in Estonia and Poland to deter this threat,” he said.

Williamson, addressing the defence review that is under way and due to be announced before the Nato summit in Brussels in July, said he wanted to see routine capabilities combined with sophisticated new equipment.

The equipment will be focused on intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance, “hoovering up information from beneath the waves, from space, from across the increasingly important electromagnetic spectrum, finding out what our enemies are doing in high definition and providing artificial intelligence”, he said.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...nternational-rule-book-says-defence-secretary

 

[R3verse Swing]

What I find interesting is the the French President is asking for conclusive proof and he is supported, but Corbyn asks of the same but is ridiculed!

 

[s28]

Government case might be about to unravel

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Of A Type Developed By Liars - I have now received confirmation from a well placed FCO source that Porton Down scientists are not able to identify the nerve gas as being of Russian manufacture, and have been resentful of the pressure being placed on them <a href="https://t.co/sbTdPOuHpb">https://t.co/sbTdPOuHpb</a></p>— Craig Murray (@CraigMurrayOrg) <a href="https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/974553008355753984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">16 March 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[s28]

For those unaware this would be reminiscent of the 2003 manufactured case for War with Saddam Hussein's Iraq #dodgydossier #WMD #45minutes

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Government case might be about to unravel

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Of A Type Developed By Liars - I have now received confirmation from a well placed FCO source that Porton Down scientists are not able to identify the nerve gas as being of Russian manufacture, and have been resentful of the pressure being placed on them <a href="https://t.co/sbTdPOuHpb">https://t.co/sbTdPOuHpb</a></p>— Craig Murray (@CraigMurrayOrg) <a href="https://twitter.com/CraigMurrayOrg/status/974553008355753984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">16 March 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It would be inconceivable if this was the case to be honest. No government would ever put itself out for such ridicule again.

 

[Robert]

For those unaware this would be reminiscent of the 2003 manufactured case for War with Saddam Hussein's Iraq #dodgydossier #WMD #45minutes

Not much. Blair tried to drum up support for invasion from many nations. None found his case credible.

May has secured the support of France, Germany and Canada in short order. Macron reverse his position overnight. The Foreign Office evidence is clearly credible to them on this point.

Suddenly May looks like a world leader, and Corbyn a contrarian backbencher again.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Murder inquiry over Russian's London death

UK police have launched a murder investigation after the death of Russian businessman Nikolai Glushkov in south-west London.

Mr Glushkov was found dead at his home in New Malden on 12 March.

A post-mortem examination revealed Mr Glushkov, who was 68, died from "compression to the neck".

There is, at this stage, no evidence linking the death to the attempted murder of a former Russian spy and his daughter in Salisbury, police say.

Detectives are retaining an open mind and are appealing for any information that will assist the investigation.

In particular, they are appealing for anyone who may have seen or heard anything suspicious at or near his home in Clarence Avenue, New Malden, between Sunday 11 March and Monday 12 March to contact them.

Mr Glushkov is the former deputy director of Russian state airline Aeroflot.

He was jailed in 1999 for five years after being charged with money laundering and fraud.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43433552

 

[R3verse Swing]

Not much. Blair tried to drum up support for invasion from many nations. None found his case credible.

May has secured the support of France, Germany and Canada in short order. Macron reverse his position overnight. The Foreign Office evidence is clearly credible to them on this point.

Suddenly May looks like a world leader, and Corbyn a contrarian backbencher again.

Nice to know Germany and France stand united with the UK.

I am sure Germany and France will ensure Brexit will be a smooth process given May is now a world leader and deserves respect!

 

[James]

For those unaware this would be reminiscent of the 2003 manufactured case for War with Saddam Hussein's Iraq #dodgydossier #WMD #45minutes

At least it won’t lead to a war this time thankfully.

Also a bit different to see the major Western nations united in their opinion of this, whereas the Iraq War was opposed by Germany and even more strongly opposed by France (the country that hardly ever vetoes) who were ready to use their veto against the US and the UK, their closest allies for the preceding hundred years.

 

[s28]

Stakes are lower but they are still equivocating in their support.

 

[Robert]

At least it won’t lead to a war this time thankfully.

Also a bit different to see the major Western nations united in their opinion of this, whereas the Iraq War was opposed by Germany and even more strongly opposed by France (the country that hardly ever vetoes) who were ready to use their veto against the US and the UK, their closest allies for the preceding hundred years.

Germany, since they rearmed in 1956, has been the most pacifist of the European NATO states, with Britain, France and Denmark the most aggressive.

So now eighteen EU states, plus USA, plus Canada have expelled Russian diplomats. The Salisbury attack has been a disaster for Putin in terms of lost intelligence gathering capability. He will think twice about this kind of gangster disregard for international behaviour in future.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Germany, since they rearmed in 1956, has been the most pacifist of the European NATO states, with Britain, France and Denmark the most aggressive.

So now eighteen EU states, plus USA, plus Canada have expelled Russian diplomats. The Salisbury attack has been a disaster for Putin in terms of lost intelligence gathering capability. He will think twice about this kind of gangster disregard for international behaviour in future.

He doesn't care and these are meaningless gestures. They will just send new spies in time.

Strong economic sanctions would have sent the message but too many people have too many fingers in Russian money .... including president of the US.

 

[imrankhannsu]

I wonder in the midst of all things happening recently, will Russia and China improve relations.

 

[Robert]

Looks like our Foreign Secretary has buffooned it up again, regarding Salisbury in the German press.

But May won’t sack him or he will foment a coup.

What a mess British politics is in.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Looks like our Foreign Secretary has buffooned it up again, regarding Salisbury in the German press.

But May won’t sack him or he will foment a coup.

What a mess British politics is in.

Calamity Johnson!

He also deleted his tweet claiming the nerve agent was made in Russia.

May cannot sack Johnson; it will destabilise what is already a fragile party in power, a year before Brexit.

 

[MenInG]

The Foreign Office has admitted deleting a Twitter post that claimed UK experts had "made clear" the nerve agent used in Salisbury was "produced in Russia".

On 22 March, the Foreign Office's Twitter account claimed "analysis by world-leading experts at the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down made clear that this was a military-grade novichok nerve agent produced in Russia".

The tweet added the Government's Porton Down facility is accredited with international watchdog the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) and a "designated laboratory".

Although a cached version of the Twitter post is still available on the internet, the original tweet has been deleted.

It comes after the head of the Porton Down laboratory told Sky News on Tuesday they were not yet able to prove the nerve agent used to poison ex-spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia was made in Russia.

The UK Government have blamed Moscow for the Salisbury attack, prompting an increasingly bitter diplomatic rift with the Kremlin.

After it emerged on Wednesday that the tweet had been deleted, the Foreign Office said the post was removed because it "did not accurately report" the words of Laurie Bristow, the UK's ambassador to Russia, which the tweet was supposed to be quoting.

However, the Russian government seized on the revelation of the tweet's deletion to restate its claim the Salisbury attack is being used to "vilify" Moscow.

Russia's deputy foreign minister Sergei Ryabkov told the Interfax news agency: "Based on what was expressed before those reports and what is being voiced and published on social networks by official UK representatives after this report, I draw the conclusion that there are no illusions, they had designated the guilty party from the start and they will not give up this policy.

"We will see the further development of this scenario in the near future contrary to logic, contrary to common sense, because totally different tasks are being set and all this case is being played out in order to completely vilify Russia geopolitically; this is an attempt to isolate Russia and so forth rather than to find out what really happened to Sergei Skripal and his daughter."

The Russian embassy in the UK also asked why the Foreign Office post had been removed.

The now-deleted tweet was posted two days after Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, in an interview with German broadcaster Deutsche Welle, claimed staff at Porton Down were "absolutely categorical" and told him there was "no doubt" the source of the nerve agent was Russia.

The Foreign Office insisted Mr Johnson's comments and what Porton Down have said recently is "fully consistent" with UK Government's position throughout the fallout from the Salisbury attack.

But Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, who has been criticised for his own response to the Salisbury attack, told Mr Johnson he has "serious questions to answer".

He said: "There clearly was a huge inconsistency in that the Foreign Secretary had made a statement, the Foreign Office put out a tweet in support of what he's said.

"Porton Down then said they couldn't and wouldn't identify where it had come from, so they then deleted the tweet.

"Where does that leave the Foreign Secretary? Egg on his face for the statement he made on German television."

The Foreign Office highlighted how a full transcript of Dr Bristow's briefing to international diplomats on 22 March has been available online since the day it was delivered.

They said the briefing was "tweeted in real time" by the UK embassy's Twitter account and had been "amplified" by the Foreign Office account to "explain what happened in Salisbury to as wide an audience as possible".

A spokesperson said: "One of the tweets was truncated and did not accurately report our Ambassador's words. We have removed this tweet.

"None of this changes the fact that it is our assessment that Russia was responsible for this brazen and reckless act and, as the international community agrees, there is no other plausible explanation.

"No other country has a combination of the capability, the intent, and the motive to carry out such an act."

The questions over the Foreign Office tweet came as discussions of the Salisbury poisoning at an extraordinary meeting of the OPCW further heightened tensions between London and the Kremlin.

Ahmet Uzumcu, the director-general of the OPCW, used the meeting to announce he expects to receive the results of his organisation's own independent analysis of samples from Salisbury by early next week.

Including analysis of biological samples from the Skripals and police officer Nick Bailey, who was also exposed to the nerve agent, the results will then be sent to the UK Government.

Speaking on a visit to Turkey, Russian President Vladimir Putin said he is waiting for the moment when "common sense comes out victorious and international relations stop receiving the damage that we are witnessing right now".

https://news.sky.com/story/foreign-...salisbury-nerve-agent-made-in-russia-11316445

 

[R3verse Swing]

If it turns out that the nerve agent was not manufactured in Russia, or the claim cannot be proved, then UK is toast, May will have egg on her face, Russians will have a field day.

This is why the UK government should've waited for evidence/proof before making moves. Too bad May was desperate for points, she played this move early, just like she did with GE17, where she lost the Tory majority.

 

[Robert]

If it turns out that the nerve agent was not manufactured in Russia, or the claim cannot be proved, then UK is toast, May will have egg on her face, Russians will have a field day.

This is why the UK government should've waited for evidence/proof before making moves. Too bad May was desperate for points, she played this move early, just like she did with GE17, where she lost the Tory majority.

This isn’t a criminal court and there will never be “proof”. How can you “prove” the source of a molecule? They don’t come with tiny little labels.

A Russian weapon was used on a Russian dissident, and Russian state television immediately gloated about it.

Twenty Western democracies believe the U.K. and have expelled Russian diplomats. They go on balance of probabilities, based on what their own intelligence agencies are telling them.

May wasn’t desperate for points, she was defending us all.

What matters is that we all get behind our own people in the face of this blatant gangster aggression from a hostile power, and don’t be useful idiots for Putin in the face of his troll disinformation offensive.

 

[R3verse Swing]

This isn’t a criminal court and there will never be “proof”. How can you “prove” the source of a molecule? They don’t come with tiny little labels.

A Russian weapon was used on a Russian dissident, and Russian state television immediately gloated about it.

Twenty Western democracies believe the U.K. and have expelled Russian diplomats. They go on balance of probabilities, based on what their own intelligence agencies are telling them.

May wasn’t desperate for points, she was defending us all.

What matters is that we all get behind our own people in the face of this blatant gangster aggression from a hostile power, and don’t be useful idiots for Putin in the face of his troll disinformation offensive.

You are asking how can we prove the source of a molecule, which I agree with, in which case, how can the UK say the specific nerve agent used was manufactured in Russia? What were they comparing the sample too?

This may not be a criminal court, but it's just common sense to have evidence/proof before accusing someone - or when it comes to politics there are no rules? If so, we shouldn't be moaning about the Russians tactics.

FO deleting the Tweet should tell us everything, the UK is unsure.

May was desperate, she is getting hammered on Brexit, lost a majority last year, and Corbyn is right behind here.

I am not getting behind anyone without evidence, the last time this country did so, was Iraq 2003, and we all now how that turned out to be.

It's time we move away from the old time narrative that Russia is the enemy.

 

[Robert]

You are asking how can we prove the source of a molecule, which I agree with, in which case, how can the UK say the specific nerve agent used was manufactured in Russia? What were they comparing the sample too?

This may not be a criminal court, but it's just common sense to have evidence/proof before accusing someone - or when it comes to politics there are no rules? If so, we shouldn't be moaning about the Russians tactics.

FO deleting the Tweet should tell us everything, the UK is unsure.

May was desperate, she is getting hammered on Brexit, lost a majority last year, and Corbyn is right behind here.

I am not getting behind anyone without evidence, the last time this country did so, was Iraq 2003, and we all now how that turned out to be.

It's time we move away from the old time narrative that Russia is the enemy.

They are comparing it to samples of chemical weapons deployed in various theatres, as well as stolen intel. This stuff isn’t new, MI6 has known about it for decades.

As for Iraq, nobody is planning war with Russia, it could escalate into global annihilation. We just want them to behave better. There is no cause for war. There will be no war. There will be an ongoing diplomatic row.

The evidence you and I have is that a Russian dissident was attacked with a Russian nerve agent and Russian TV immediately gloated. Come on, apply Occam’s Razor.

The Foreign Office is sure and so are nineteen other foreign offices. The British one got the messaging wrong leaving an own goal to be exploited by Russian propaganda and their useful idiots.

That BoJo has loused it up by exaggerating what Porton Down told him does not mean that Russia didn’t carry out the assassination attempt. It just means BoJo is a buffoon who should be nowhere near the Cabinet.

Russia should have stuck to the polonium umbrellas, nobody moaned then.

If we want to move away from the narrative that Russia is the enemy, Russia will first have to stop pointing ICBMs at our cities. Stop seeing over and over again how close their nuclear bombers can get to our airspace before interception. Stop driving aircraft carriers through the English Channel. Stop parking tanks on the border with the Baltic states. Stop the cyber attacks, stop rearming at 5% of GDP when EU states are not even at 2%, and stop interfering in our democratic processes.

 

[R3verse Swing]

They are comparing it to samples of chemical weapons deployed in various theatres, as well as stolen intel. This stuff isn’t new, MI6 has known about it for decades.

As for Iraq, nobody is planning war with Russia, it could escalate into global annihilation. We just want them to behave better. There is no cause for war. There will be no war. There will be an ongoing diplomatic row.

The evidence you and I have is that a Russian dissident was attacked with a Russian nerve agent and Russian TV immediately gloated. Come on, apply Occam’s Razor.

The Foreign Office is sure and so are nineteen other foreign offices. The British one got the messaging wrong leaving an own goal to be exploited by Russian propaganda and their useful idiots.

That BoJo has loused it up by exaggerating what Porton Down told him does not mean that Russia didn’t carry out the assassination attempt. It just means BoJo is a buffoon who should be nowhere near the Cabinet.

Russia should have stuck to the polonium umbrellas, nobody moaned then.

If we want to move away from the narrative that Russia is the enemy, Russia will first have to stop pointing ICBMs at our cities. Stop seeing over and over again how close their nuclear bombers can get to our airspace before interception. Stop driving aircraft carriers through the English Channel. Stop parking tanks on the border with the Baltic states. Stop the cyber attacks, stop rearming at 5% of GDP when EU states are not even at 2%, and stop interfering in our democratic processes.

Cambridge Analytical destroyed the myth that Russia was interfering in our democratic process.

At the end of the day we should not be pointing the finger without any concrete evidence like we did with Iraq 2003. It's got nothing to do with going to war with Russia, but everything to do with due process. Just think for a second, there is a chance, that Bojo has loused it up for sure. What Bojo claimed doesn't mean Russia did it either.

In a game of nuclear warheads, it's best to play by evidence, and not the narrative.

By the way, OR suggests MI6 was behind it.

 

[Robert]

Cambridge Analytical destroyed the myth that Russia was interfering in our democratic process.

At the end of the day we should not be pointing the finger without any concrete evidence like we did with Iraq 2003. It's got nothing to do with going to war with Russia, but everything to do with due process. Just think for a second, there is a chance, that Bojo has loused it up for sure. What Bojo claimed doesn't mean Russia did it either.

In a game of nuclear warheads, it's best to play by evidence, and not the narrative.

By the way, OR suggests MI6 was behind it.

What, you think only one agency can interfere in a democratic process at once? Do they agree to take turns, do you think?

It’s got everything to do with standing up to Putin who has continually been poking us in the chest to see how far he can go. If you push the bully back, he will find someone else to bully instead.

Twenty Western democracies agree with me. A few tinfoil hat salesmen agree with you.

 

[James]

The chest poking has gone both ways. We have been rubbing Russia’s nose in the fall of Communism since the Berlin Wall went down. Now they are finally getting back on their feet, they are enjoying winding us up again.

 

[Robert]

The chest poking has gone both ways. We have been rubbing Russia’s nose in the fall of Communism since the Berlin Wall went down.

How?

 

[Eagle_Eye]

What, you think only one agency can interfere in a democratic process at once? Do they agree to take turns, do you think?

It’s got everything to do with standing up to Putin who has continually been poking us in the chest to see how far he can go. If you push the bully back, he will find someone else to bully instead.

Twenty Western democracies agree with me. A few tinfoil hat salesmen agree with you.

My gut feeling is now saying that we have played this badly... May has to go, everything she touches becomes shambles mostly because she has too many back seat drivers in the cabinet.

 

[R3verse Swing]

What, you think only one agency can interfere in a democratic process at once? Do they agree to take turns, do you think?

It’s got everything to do with standing up to Putin who has continually been poking us in the chest to see how far he can go. If you push the bully back, he will find someone else to bully instead.

Twenty Western democracies agree with me. A few tinfoil hat salesmen agree with you.

It was alleged that Russia was targeting users on social media with relevant adverts/posts etc based on their profiles, this is how people claimed Russia was interfering in the democratic process - selective information targeting. It transpired, that Cambridge Analytical - a British company - obtained data of over 50 Million users, and performed election engineering by gaining personal data, and then targeting users with opposing adverts/posts - manipulation.

At best people can claim Russia was trolling, how is this any different to Leave/Remain trolling FB? Or Trump supporters trolling Clinton? However the sophisticated engineering which Russia was accused of was actually carried out by Cambridge Analytical. This is why it's big news - this is why FB has lost Billions in value. The process was so effective, even Obama asked Zuckerberg to help him out in the 2012 election. Obama won. This is before Trump/Brexit. This is all documented in a links I posted from the Times, in this thread. No tinfoil hat needed.

Elections are not won with door to door presence any more, or at rallies, but via data engineering.

As for 20 Western democracies, I assume you are talking about the same 20 or so who claimed Iraq had WMDs? Truthfully, NATO must be shown as united - that's the only reason why 20 nations are singing the same hymn. France didn't agree with UK on Russia, but was forced to agree. Same goes for Germany. Here's the thing. When you side with the *the West* you are already creating division. You will accept what these Western democracies will say, even if it turns out to be false.

Want to the West to stand up to Putin? Smack him down with evidence/proof, not probabilities or deleted tweets from the Foreign office.

If you disagree, then I claim MI6 is funding ISIS. Do not need evidence as we are not in a criminal court of law, right? Why is it that you demand evidence from Tinfoil hat theorists, but refuse to provide evidence when Russia demands it?

 

[Robert]

It was alleged that Russia was targeting users on social media with relevant adverts/posts etc based on their profiles, this is how people claimed Russia was interfering in the democratic process - selective information targeting. It transpired, that Cambridge Analytical - a British company - obtained data of over 50 Million users, and performed election engineering by gaining personal data, and then targeting users with opposing adverts/posts - manipulation.

At best people can claim Russia was trolling, how is this any different to Leave/Remain trolling FB? Or Trump supporters trolling Clinton? However the sophisticated engineering which Russia was accused of was actually carried out by Cambridge Analytical. This is why it's big news - this is why FB has lost Billions in value. The process was so effective, even Obama asked Zuckerberg to help him out in the 2012 election. Obama won. This is before Trump/Brexit. This is all documented in a links I posted from the Times, in this thread. No tinfoil hat needed.

Elections are not won with door to door presence any more, or at rallies, but via data engineering.

As for 20 Western democracies, I assume you are talking about the same 20 or so who claimed Iraq had WMDs? Truthfully, NATO must be shown as united - that's the only reason why 20 nations are singing the same hymn. France didn't agree with UK on Russia, but was forced to agree. Same goes for Germany. Here's the thing. When you side with the *the West* you are already creating division. You will accept what these Western democracies will say, even if it turns out to be false.

Want to the West to stand up to Putin? Smack him down with evidence/proof, not probabilities or deleted tweets from the Foreign office.

If you disagree, then I claim MI6 is funding ISIS. Do not need evidence as we are not in a criminal court of law, right? Why is it that you demand evidence from Tinfoil hat theorists, but refuse to provide evidence when Russia demands it?

It was alleged because it is true. Go on Twitter and look for yourself, the place is lousy with them. The Russian troll houses spread Islamophobia to make us turn against each other. They do all they can to undermine our faith in our institutions. And they are winning.

Twenty NATO states didn’t claim Iraq had WMDs. Two did. The rest of NATO stayed well out of it, despite intense diplomatic pressure from the two.

This time, the intelligence agencies of twenty NATO states agree. That’s good enough for me.

 

[R3verse Swing]

It was alleged because it is true. Go on Twitter and look for yourself, the place is lousy with them. The Russian troll houses spread Islamophobia to make us turn against each other. They do all they can to undermine our faith in our institutions. And they are winning.

Twenty NATO states didn’t claim Iraq had WMDs. Two did. The rest of NATO stayed well out of it, despite intense diplomatic pressure from the two.

This time, the intelligence agencies of twenty NATO states agree. That’s good enough for me.

Twitter? They confirmed that Russian troll traffic was less than 0.05%. You don't accept this either despite their statement. I've been on Social media and I see no difference between an alleged Russian troll and a UKIP troll. You do apparently.

Also you can't use alleged and true in the same sentence. I'm pretty sure of it.

You stick with the 20 nations who have been proven wrong time and time again, because the rest or the world says otherwise, evidence first.

I get you are upset that you have *lost* your country and are looking someone to blame, but it's about time you look at the British government and accept democracy.

 

[Robert]

Twitter would say that though, wouldn’t they? We have been over this point already. UKIP trolls are a disorganised bunch of sad sacks, not part of a St Petersburg troll farm funded by the Kremlin to the tune of $millions to destabilise rival nations.

It’s up to 24 nations now, and yes I will stick with them because they are our allies and share our values and we stand together. France stood up for us against Russia at the UNSC yesterday. Merci beaucoup Monsieur Macron!

I am upset because a foreign power (in all likelihood Russia because it was a Russian weapon used to attack a Russian dissident whom Putin personally threatened, gloated over by Russian state TV, and Russia has previous form here) has deployed a chemical weapon on our streets. That could have been you and I in a pub. Or our kids. The British government and 24 other governments are protecting us. Some members of our government are dangerous buffoons, but Mrs May is ok by me and she is doing the right thing by me.

I am upset because our democracy has clearly been undermined and subverted by at least two agencies and these all have to be challenged if our democracy is to remain strong.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Twitter would say that though, wouldn’t they? We have been over this point already. UKIP trolls are a disorganised bunch of sad sacks, not part of a St Petersburg troll farm funded by the Kremlin to the tune of $millions to destabilise rival nations.

I think you are wearing the Tinfoil hat now. If you you think Twitter would say that, then what are you going to accept as evidence to the contrary? Why not cite some evidence proving the trolls on Twitter are Russian? Show me how a Russian troll has more impact than a UKIP troll on Twitter.

It’s up to 24 nations now, and yes I will stick with them because they are our allies and share our values and we stand together. France stood up for us against Russia at the UNSC yesterday. Merci beaucoup Monsieur Macron!

I am upset because a foreign power (in all likelihood Russia because it was a Russian weapon used to attack a Russian dissident whom Putin personally threatened, gloated over by Russian state TV, and Russia has previous form here) has deployed a chemical weapon on our streets. That could have been you and I in a pub. Or our kids. The British government and 24 other governments are protecting us. Some members of our government are dangerous buffoons, but Mrs May is ok by me and she is doing the right thing by me.

Now you and I know what it feels like to be at the receiving end of a foreign power in our country. Not nice is it? Yet we praise British troops who carpet bomb the ME with their allies, gloat on national TV, FREEDOM et al!

I am upset because our democracy has clearly been undermined and subverted by at least two agencies and these all have to be challenged if our democracy is to remain strong.

You have no evidence, other than probable cause.

Why not accept the obvious that people voted leave because they had enough of the EU? Why not accept the fact in the era of social media, votes are influenced using data? Why not accept the fact Cambridge Analytical played a bigger role in influence the outcome of the referendum that Russia?

 

[Robert]

Just google ‘St Petersburg troll farm’ and see what comes up. The Guardian, Indy, Telegraph and NY Times all run stories on it. Credible broadsheet journalism.

No it isn’t nice, and Mrs May and our allies are not standing for it. I will never get what you call proof, they will never tell us, but I am happy to trust Mrs May on the defence of the realm.

I don’t dispute any of your final three questions. I find it terrifying that our democracy can be so easily corrupted. Cambridge Analytica is a mere tool, for some very bad people. Fascists stalk our land once more and the BAMEs such as my wife and you, my friend, are first in their sights. We must resist all fascism from Leave.EU, Russia, the EDL and everywhere else.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Just google ‘St Petersburg troll farm’ and see what comes up. The Guardian, Indy, Telegraph and NY Times all run stories on it. Credible broadsheet journalism.

No it isn’t nice, and Mrs May and our allies are not standing for it. I will never get what you call proof, they will never tell us, but I am happy to trust Mrs May on the defence of the realm.

I don’t dispute any of your final three questions. I find it terrifying that our democracy can be so easily corrupted. Cambridge Analytica is a mere tool, for some very bad people. Fascists stalk our land once more and the BAMEs such as my wife and you, my friend, are first in their sights. We must resist all fascism from Leave.EU, Russia, the EDL and everywhere else.

I cited evidence from the very credible broadsheets you mention but you dismissed it.

I really don't understand what the issue here is. Seems to me you are refusing to blame trolls from UK such as UKIP/Leave etc and their contribution to influencing an election, and British company too, but you still blame Russia despite troll traffic from Russia is minute compared to the rest - according to credible broadsheets etc.

CA is a mere tool? Well FB and Twitter are mere platforms.

Democracy was always corruptible, it's just these days it's easier with social media. Back in the day we had leaflets full of Propaganda, now we have social media adverts full of propaganda.

If you are seriously looking at something to blame and something that will reduce fascism, then look no further than Austerity. You can't blame Russia just because the result didn't go the way it was expected to.

 

[Robert]

I cited evidence from the very credible broadsheets you mention but you dismissed it.

I really don't understand what the issue here is. Seems to me you are refusing to blame trolls from UK such as UKIP/Leave etc and their contribution to influencing an election, and British company too, but you still blame Russia despite troll traffic from Russia is minute compared to the rest - according to credible broadsheets etc.

CA is a mere tool? Well FB and Twitter are mere platforms.

Democracy was always corruptible, it's just these days it's easier with social media. Back in the day we had leaflets full of Propaganda, now we have social media adverts full of propaganda.

If you are seriously looking at something to blame and something that will reduce fascism, then look no further than Austerity. You can't blame Russia just because the result didn't go the way it was expected to.

To be honest neither am I.

Yes, fascism always follows austerity - Panic of 1873, then 1929 and now 2008.

This debate got a bit heated and I don’t want that. We would do better to talk over a few drinks.

 

[Abdullah719]

Amesbury: Two collapse near Russian spy poisoning site

A man and woman are in a critical condition after being exposed to an unknown substance, which counter terrorism officers are investigating.

The pair, in their 40s, were found unconscious in a suspected drugs-related incident at a house in Amesbury, Wiltshire, on Saturday.

It is understood tests are being carried out on the substance at a government chemical weapons laboratory.

Amesbury is about eight miles from the Salisbury Russian spy poisoning site.

Former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were poisoned with Novichok, a suspected military nerve agent, in March.

The substance Novichok was identified by the defence research facility at Porton Down which is understood to be carrying out tests on the latest substance.

The government's emergency committee, Cobra, has met in the Cabinet Office at an official level to discuss the events in Amesbury, which is being "treated with the utmost seriousness".

The Met said counter terrorism officers are now working with Wiltshire Police "given the recent events in Salisbury".

Wiltshire Police said it is "open-minded" about the cause after a couple were found at the house in Muggleton Road, Amesbury.

While it was not clear whether a crime had been committed, the force said, a number of places in Amesbury and Salisbury known to have been frequented by the couple had been cordoned off.

It said the public can expect to see an increased police presence in and around Amesbury and Salisbury.

"It was initially believed that the two patients fell ill after using possibly heroin or crack cocaine from a contaminated batch of drugs," Wiltshire Police said.

"They are both currently receiving treatment for suspected exposure to an unknown substance at Salisbury District Hospital," it added.

The couple are believed to have attended a family fun day at Amesbury Baptist Church on Saturday afternoon before they were found unconscious in the property they had just moved into.

Roy Collins, church secretary, said "nobody else has suffered any ill-effects" from attending the community event and "there was nothing going on that was nefarious".

"There have been no reports of any other incidents," he said.

"We are all quite puzzled and shocked - naturally the connection with Salisbury and recent events there mean there is a heightened public interest."

Boots has closed its Amesbury store as "a precautionary measure" to allow police to carry out an investigation, a spokesperson confirmed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-wiltshire-44707052

 

[MenInG]

Very scary this. Nerve agents just lying about town!

 

[KingKhanWC]

Pretty much tells us the UK government were lying through their teeth all along. It was said by them, there is no risk to the public and now we have this. They are still saying there is no risk even after this incident.

Perhaps they are upset Russia is hosting a great world cup?

Btw the inventor of this nerve agent said nobody will survive but the farther and daughter were discharged from hospital within a matter of weeks.

 

[James]

The whole thing is just a convoluted pile of nonsense, I don’t believe any of the noise coming from either side now.

I would not be surprised to discover in the end that the UK and Russia had amicably collaborated on the Skripal assassination attempt all along (with his daughters and now these 2 other people being the collateral damage).

There was a motive and a means: Russia wanted him dead, and the UK had the resources to make it happen. If this is true I don’t think TM and her clueless Cabinet were aware of it by the way, it was more likely to be heavily buried Deep State activity.

International Relations.

 

[Robert]

I don’t believe that. MI5 might collaborate with CIA but I cannot imagine them helping FSB.

Just keep it simple. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s most likely a duck. Of course the Russians did it. They botched their operation and left traces of this stuff in the area. More poisoning incidents may occur.

 

[Robert]

Now someone has died.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Now someone has died.

Question is how was she exposed.

 

[IMMY69]

Question is how was she exposed.

I heard an interview last week with the founder of novichock and he said that the substance would have dissolved by now and would be harmless by now, that the elements including rain would have rendered it harmless...

 

[cricketjoshila]

I heard an interview last week with the founder of novichock and he said that the substance would have dissolved by now and would be harmless by now, that the elements including rain would have rendered it harmless...

Thats why the question arises. How was this woman exposed? There is something here which isnt logical.

 

[Robert]

I heard an interview last week with the founder of novichock and he said that the substance would have dissolved by now and would be harmless by now, that the elements including rain would have rendered it harmless...

Well, he would, wouldn’t he?

 

[IMMY69]

Well, he would, wouldn’t he?

Well yes he would but I'm as confused as the next person.
There are no Health Alerts on this so whose to say the poison that killed this poor lady isn't around somewhere in Wiltshire as we speak?

What is going on?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Well, he would, wouldn’t he?

Well yes he would but I'm as confused as the next person.
There are no Health Alerts on this so whose to say the poison that killed this poor lady isn't around somewhere in Wiltshire as we speak?

What is going on?

Dont get me wrong here but unless a huge amount of this chemical was smuggled into UK and spread around the place common sense is that small or miniscule amounts will over the days be diluted by natural air or water or be absorbed in soil.

Only a concentrated and very small amount of these nerve agents in Mililitres is used to kill a man.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I don’t believe that. MI5 might collaborate with CIA but I cannot imagine them helping FSB.

Just keep it simple. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s most likely a duck. Of course the Russians did it. They botched their operation and left traces of this stuff in the area. More poisoning incidents may occur.

If this is the case why then did the government say there is no risk to the public? I cannot recall any big effort to sweep the whole area or an attempt to keep the public safe? It's about time the government start giving answers, ordinary people are dying.

 

[James]

I wonder if it was a gas canister buried in the ground that some ordinary bods dug up out of curiosity and it still had traces of nerve agent emanating from it.

 

[IMMY69]

I wonder if it was a gas canister buried in the ground that some ordinary bods dug up out of curiosity and it still had traces of nerve agent emanating from it.

Could be but then why haven’t they managed to find it yet?
Also doctors reporting today that the amount the lady was exposed to was quiet substantial hence she passed away...

Still there are no health warnings other then if you see something strange then report it...

I think if this was some collaboration then iwhichever agency did it could have covered their tracks better... doubt a professional would have been this clumsy.

 

[Kroll]

US imposes sanctions on Russia over Skripal poisonings in Salisbury

The US state department will impose sanctions on Russia after it determined Moscow used a nerve agent to attack the Skripals.

The US expelled a number of Russian diplomats as part of an international response to the attack, when the former double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter were taken ill in March.

State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert said: "Following the use of a 'Novichok' nerve agent in an attempt to assassinate UK citizen Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia Skripal, the United States, on 6 August 2018, determined under the Chemical and Biological Weapons Control and Warfare Elimination Act of 1991 (CBW Act) that the Government of the Russian Federation has used chemical or biological weapons in violation of international law or has used lethal chemical or biological weapons against its own nationals."

She said sanctions would take effect on or around 22 August, after a 15-day Congressional notification period.

Mr Skripal and his daughter Yulia were in intensive care for several weeks after being poisoned with the chemical substance at his home in Salisbury in March.

They were found in a serious condition on a bench in The Maltings shopping centre, and the discovery of the substance sparked a city-wide investigation with police having to cordon off large areas, including where they had eaten dinner that evening.

Three months later, Dawn Sturgess and her partner Charlie Rowley fell ill after they came into contact with the substance, which was found in a sealed perfume bottle.

The UK government has accused Russia of being behind the attack, but the Kremlin has continuously denied involvement.

Reports earlier this week that the UK was preparing to request the extradition of two Russians it suspected of being behind the attack were found to be less advanced than initially suggested, Sky sources said.

Russia's embassy in London said they had not received any extradition requests over allegations any of its citizens were involved in the novichok poisonings.

The Skripals were targeted in the March attack, but the second pair to be affected came across the poison in a perfume bottle they found in a bin in Amesbury, eight miles away, in July.

Ms Sturgess died, having sprayed the substance over herself, but Mr Rowley survived.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/us-impose...sonings-salisbury-191300897.html?guccounter=1

 

[MenInG]

LONDON — The two assassins sent to southwest England in March to poison a Russian former spy were active officers in Russia’s military intelligence, Prime Minister Theresa May of Britain said on Wednesday, after prosecutors accused the men of attempted murder, the first criminal charges in a case that has driven a deep wedge between Russia and the West.

Investigators released a cache of evidence in the case, including security camera images that captured the progress of two husky men from an Aeroflot flight to the scene of the crime, near the victim’s home, and from there back to Moscow.

They also released photographs of the delicate perfume bottle that was used to carry a weapons-grade nerve agent, known as Novichok, to the quiet English cathedral city of Salisbury.

British counterterrorism police said at a news conference that they had pored through thousands of hours of security-camera footage, cross-referenced the results with passport data, and on May 2, identified a shabby hotel in East London where the men had stayed. Finally, in a needle-in-a-haystack moment, two swabs taken from the suspects’ hotel were found to contain traces of the nerve agent.

The allegation of specific G.R.U. involvement in the use of the nerve agent adds to the heightened tensions between Moscow and the West, which has led to mutual expulsions of hundreds of diplomats and embassy employees, and to sanctions against Russia.

The G.R.U., now known as the Main Directorate of the General Staff, serves as an undercover strike force for the Kremlin in conflicts around the world. Some of its officers were charged in July by United States prosecutors with hacking Democrats’ computer systems during the 2016 presidential campaign.

The British authorities issued domestic and European arrest warrants for the two men, identified as Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov, and released photographs of them. The men traveled on valid Russian passports on those names, the police said, adding that they believed the names were aliases.

“We do understand they have traveled extensively in the past under these aliases,” Neil Basu, Britain’s top counterterrorism police official, said.

The information released on Wednesday made clear that investigators had known of the men’s assumed names, their movements and the contamination of their hotel room for months without saying so publicly. On Wednesday, they appealed for the public’s help to fill in the gaps about what the men had done, and when.

“The names, as well as the photos, published in the media mean nothing to us,” Maria Zakharova, a spokeswoman for the Russian Foreign Ministry, told journalists on Wednesday. “We once again urge the U.K. to switch from public accusations and informational manipulations to practical interaction between law enforcement agencies.”

The Crown Prosecution Service charged the men with the attempted murder of the Russian former intelligence officer, Sergei V. Skripal; of Yulia S. Skripal, his daughter; and of a police officer, Det. Sgt. Nick Bailey, who was sickened while investigating the case. The men were also charged with conspiracy to murder Mr. Skripal; use and possession of the nerve agent; and causing grievous bodily harm.

The charges do not address the poisoning of two Britons — Dawn Sturgess, who died, and Charlie Rowley — though investigators believe the events are linked. Both Ms. Sturgess and Mr. Rowley fell ill months after the attack on the Skripals, when they found the perfume bottle that investigators believe was used to transport the nerve agent.

“The same two men are now the prime suspects in the case of Dawn Sturgess and Charlie Rowley,” Mrs. May said, adding that the same poison was used in both cases and that the two were “victims of the reckless disposal of this agent.”

Prosecutors did not request the extradition of the men from Russia, which does not send its nationals abroad for prosecution. Mr. Basu said that, while he hoped for arrests, “it’s looking very very unlikely that we are going to get to that point.”

The images released by the police show how easily the attack could have escaped detection. The suspects look perfectly ordinary, strolling in wintry weather in jeans and parkas. The police released pictures of the counterfeit bottle for a perfume, Nina Ricci’s Premier Jour, and a pearlescent pink box that contained it — a container so innocuous that Mr. Basu called it “the perfect delivery method.”

Mrs. May said, “the manner in which the bottle was modified leaves no doubt, it was a cover for smuggling a weapon into the country.”

All five victims were poisoned with Novichok, a class of nerve agents developed by Soviet and Russian scientists, according to British government scientists and the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, the international agency that monitors compliance with a global treaty on chemical weapons.

After the attack on the Skripals in Salisbury, a cathedral city southwest of London, Western nations imposed new economic sanctions and expelled about 150 Russian diplomats and other officials, many of them believed to be intelligence agents. Russia responded by ejecting a similar number of officials from those countries.

Mr. Basu said the suspects were in Britain only briefly, flying in from Moscow on March 2, staying for two nights at the City Stay Hotel on Bow Road in East London, and flying back to Moscow on March 4. The dusty, low-cost hotel, with a patch of artificial grass in front, is next to a train station.

After tracing the men’s movements to the hotel and determining which room they stayed in, Mr. Basu said, investigators examined the room on May 4 and “two swabs showed contamination of Novichok at levels below that which would cause concern for public health.”

People who live and work in the area said they were dismayed not to have heard of the contamination earlier. “It’s a bit shocking that they waited until now, but I guess there’s a lot that goes on behind the scenes that I’m not aware of,” said Andreia Paim, 24, a student who lives near the hotel.

The men took a train to Salisbury on March 3, Mr. Basu said, adding that the trip “was for reconnaissance of the Salisbury area.” He said they had returned the next day to carry out the poisoning. The police said closed-circuit television recordings showed the men near, but not at, Mr. Skripal’s house.

Mr. Skripal is believed to have been the primary target of the attack — he is apparently the latest in a long string of people at odds with President Vladimir V. Putin’s government who have been the victims of assassinations or attempted assassinations, in Russia and abroad.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/world/europe/russia-uk-novichok-skripal.html

 

[MenInG]

LONDON (Reuters) - Kremlin chief Vladimir Putin bears ultimate responsibility for an nerve agent attack on a former Russian spy and his daughter in Salisbury earlier this year, Britain’s security minister said on Thursday.

Russia's President Vladimir Putin chairs a government meeting on social and economic issues, including the pension system, in the Siberian city of Omsk, Russia August 28, 2018. Sputnik/Alexei Druzhinin/Kremlin via REUTERS
Prime Minister Theresa May said police and prosecutors now believe the attack on Sergei Skripal was carried out by two Russian military intelligence officers who were almost certainly acting with the approval of senior Russian officials.

Asked whether President Putin bears responsibility, Ben Wallace told BBC radio: “Ultimately he does in so far as he is the president of the Russian Federation and it is his government that controls, funds and directs the military intelligence.”

“Ultimately of course he is responsible, he is leader of the state,” he said.

Skripal, a former colonel in Russian military intelligence who betrayed dozens of agents to Britain’s MI6 foreign spy service, and his daughter Yulia, were found unconscious on a public bench in the English city of Salisbury on March 4.

After the attack, allies in Europe and the United States sided with Britain’s view of the attack and ordered the biggest expulsion of Russian diplomats since the height of the Cold War. Russia retaliated by expelling Western diplomats.

The motive for attacking Skripal, who was exchanged in a Kremlin-approved spy swap in 2010, is still unclear, as is the motive for using an exotic nerve agent, Novichok, which has such clear links to Russia’s Soviet past.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...responsible-for-novichok-attack-idUSKCN1LM1DS

 

[James]

Russia getting very much isolated here