Russia invades Ukraine

[90MPH]

If they had any brains they would have taken these land based rocket launchers and anti ship launchers out in first place with precision strikes using munitions similar to jdam

For hardened surfaces they should have used penetrative warheads like bunker busters.

And for tunnels and trenches carpet bombing them with heavy bombers and using thermobaric bombs in the dug out areas , fuel bombs and white phosphorous.

Then move your land and sea assets .

Russian simply suck they have suffered significant losses from incompetence and a sub standard airforce .

I wouldn't be surprised if these idiots get one of these bombers shot down or crash it .

I always say it as I see it but just reading this thread I will say Khan and bones in particular are living in an alternative universe.

What should be a serious discussion about 1 country invading another sovereign country has become nothing but a sad comedic thread where the blame on the war goes to the country getting invaded and bombed to hell and the real victims are apparently the one invading it.

Yes and I totally agree with you about Russia losing this flagship missile carrier today. It’s another major setback losing such a prestige asset but of course they are going to spin this as nothing major.

This war has been a total strategic disaster for Russia. They wanted to take Kyiv quickly and now that plan has to totally backfired and they abandoned it because Ukrainians were going to fight like Hell to give it to them.
£40,000 Nlaw anti tank missiles are destroying £2million soviet Russian tanks.

Looking overall they haven’t captured 1 major city in 2 months of fighting, even Mariupol despite destroying it like 90% of it they still can’t capture it.

This unfortunately is going to be a long war on the east side of Ukraine as that is where the most prized assets of Ukraine are.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

This war has not quite been a disaster for Russia, but it has by no means been plain sailing either.

They are international pariahs, the average Russian doesn't care about what China thinks about them or if India is buying gas, they will look west wards.

Further compounding this has been the strength of the Ukrainian resistance and the massive western propaganda efforts that have not allowed the Kremlin to establish their narrative.

Unfortunately, there is no way out for Russia and I think Putin will seek to escalate things "shock and awe" style to bring the Ukranians to the negotiation table.

I fear that things are going to get a lot worse.

 

[bones]

It's really funny reading the posts of people who get all their info from MSM. MSM who haven't got any clue about warfare.

90MPH still thinks you can take a city the size of Kyiv with 50k soldiers. Anyone who know anything about history will know that it takes hundreds of thousands to take large cities. 450k were required by Germany to take this same city in WW2 and now you think 1/10th of that army could take it now?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

It's really funny reading the posts of people who get all their info from MSM. MSM who haven't got any clue about warfare.

90MPH still thinks you can take a city the size of Kyiv with 50k soldiers. Anyone who know anything about history will know that it takes hundreds of thousands to take large cities. 450k were required by Germany to take this same city in WW2 and now you think 1/10th of that army could take it now?

What were Russia's aim for the war? It seems to be a clumsy operation that they have executed.

 

[bones]

What were Russia's aim for the war? It seems to be a clumsy operation that they have executed.

You will have to look up some reliable independent military men's views to get a deeper understanding. But to sum up best I can. Russia had 200k soldiers committed to this invasion. The Ukranians had 600k. With a ration of 1/3 you have to manuevre the battlefield to get an advantage. Think of it like this, the Russians sacrificed some pawns so they could take out more important pieces. The Russians managed to create the Southern land corridor which ensures they don't have the problems the Ukranians are facing right now with supplies and comms.

You only need to switch off MSM and use independent sources and even social media to understand just how bad it is for Ukraine in the south. If the Ukranian army in the south falls then it's open territory for vast distances.

 

[James]

A Russian warship that was damaged by an explosion on Wednesday has sunk, Russia's defence ministry has said.

Moskva, the flagship of Russia's Black Sea fleet, was being towed to port when "stormy seas" caused it to sink, according to a ministry message.

The 510-crew vessel was an important symbolic and military target, and has led Russia's naval assault on Ukraine.

Ukraine claims it struck the warship with its missiles, but Russia has made no mention of an attack.

Throughout Thursday there were conflicting reports from Moscow, Kyiv and the Pentagon on what happened to the ship, whether it was still on fire - or had sunk.

 

[90MPH]

A Russian warship that was damaged by an explosion on Wednesday has sunk, Russia's defence ministry has said.

Moskva, the flagship of Russia's Black Sea fleet, was being towed to port when "stormy seas" caused it to sink, according to a ministry message.

The 510-crew vessel was an important symbolic and military target, and has led Russia's naval assault on Ukraine.

Ukraine claims it struck the warship with its missiles, but Russia has made no mention of an attack.

Throughout Thursday there were conflicting reports from Moscow, Kyiv and the Pentagon on what happened to the ship, whether it was still on fire - or had sunk.

Make no mistake about it, that now Russia has admitted it has lost the warship Moskova this will be seen as a massive symbolic win for the Ukrainians and a big morale defeat for the Russians.

On twitter the Russian propagandists are in complete shambles and denial that this has just happened and I suspect the same will be repeated by the ususal suspects in this thread.

Russia has not a warship of this magnitude since WW2. This milltary adventure is going from bad to worse for Putin.

 

[bones]

Make no mistake about it, that now Russia has admitted it has lost the warship Moskova this will be seen as a massive symbolic win for the Ukrainians and a big morale defeat for the Russians.

On twitter the Russian propagandists are in complete shambles and denial that this has just happened and I suspect the same will be repeated by the ususal suspects in this thread.
Russia has not a warship of this magnitude since WW2. This milltary adventure is going from bad to worse for Putin.

It’s an embarrassing loss but not one that is going to change the outcome of the war.

I’m still waiting for you to explain with your clearly vast experience and knowledge of warfare how you would take a city the size of Kyiv with 50k soldiers.

 

[oatmeal]

This war has not quite been a disaster for Russia, but it has by no means been plain sailing either.

The war has been an unmitigated disaster for Russia in my opinion. All their initial war strategy points to them going in with an expectation of a quick victory and facing little resistance.

The fact that they had to dramatically scale back the objectives points to an admission that they miscalculated.

Russia will always have the upper hand in the conflict because of their larger army and more sophisticated weaponry. They will probably be able to take over the whole of Donbass in a protracted conflict. But with supply lines now open and military intelligence support from the west, the amount of resources they will have to expend will be way too high. And withdrawing is not an option for Putin, he has to come away with a victory no matter what the cost.

Replacing the military hardware they lost in face of Western sanctions is going to be a much harder job.

 

[bones]

The war has been an unmitigated disaster for Russia in my opinion. All their initial war strategy points to them going in with an expectation of a quick victory and facing little resistance.

The fact that they had to dramatically scale back the objectives points to an admission that they miscalculated.

Russia will always have the upper hand in the conflict because of their larger army and more sophisticated weaponry. They will probably be able to take over the whole of Donbass in a protracted conflict. But with supply lines now open and military intelligence support from the west, the amount of resources they will have to expend will be way too high. And withdrawing is not an option for Putin, he has to come away with a victory no matter what the cost.

Replacing the military hardware they lost in face of Western sanctions is going to be a much harder job.

Another person who believes the western narrative.

My friend if you knew what the Russian was then the Ukrainian army would know what the strategy was and therefore they could negate/counter it. The whole plan in a war is to try and get the enemy to be where you want them to be so you can perhaps attack elsewhere.

The Russians are winning the economic war and the military war if you think otherwise you’ll be in for a rude shock. Remember a few weeks ago when they all collectively sanctioned Russia to immediately cripple them? Well they got that horribly wrong. The Russians will have a victory here in Ukraine and it will be a resounding victory. Of that there is no dispute amongst unpaid and independent military men. I actually am interested to see how the western MSM will present the bad news to their people.

I’m still waiting for someone who thinks that the Russians retreated from the north because they were beaten to explain to me how Russia should have taken a city the size of Kyiv with 50k soldiers.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Make no mistake about it, that now Russia has admitted it has lost the warship Moskova this will be seen as a massive symbolic win for the Ukrainians and a big morale defeat for the Russians.

On twitter the Russian propagandists are in complete shambles and denial that this has just happened and I suspect the same will be repeated by the ususal suspects in this thread.

Russia has not a warship of this magnitude since WW2. This milltary adventure is going from bad to worse for Putin.

Lol Russia has stated an ammunition explosion caused by a fire onboard caused the damage. The Pentagon has officially stated they cannot confirm Ukrainian claims after flying a drone over the ship .

Russiam their strategic aims were to demilitarisation & ending the power of the Nazis , both are near completion.

 

[oatmeal]

Another person who believes the western narrative.

My friend if you knew what the Russian was then the Ukrainian army would know what the strategy was and therefore they could negate/counter it. The whole plan in a war is to try and get the enemy to be where you want them to be so you can perhaps attack elsewhere.

The Russians are winning the economic war and the military war if you think otherwise you’ll be in for a rude shock. Remember a few weeks ago when they all collectively sanctioned Russia to immediately cripple them? Well they got that horribly wrong. The Russians will have a victory here in Ukraine and it will be a resounding victory. Of that there is no dispute amongst unpaid and independent military men. I actually am interested to see how the western MSM will present the bad news to their people.

I’m still waiting for someone who thinks that the Russians retreated from the north because they were beaten to explain to me how Russia should have taken a city the size of Kyiv with 50k soldiers.

lol you just keep repeating the same thing over and over again convincing yourself its true.

The sanctions have hurt Russia A LOT, they are going to default soon which raises the cost of borrowing money. Obviously with oil and gas they are not going to be to be totally bankrupt. But the flight restrictions and the hi tech export bans hurt the country a lot, especially when they have to rebuild the military hardware destroyed in this attack. The timeline for this is in months and years and not days.

Russian strategy was to take the Hostomel airport, use that for bringing in more logistics and personnel and encircle Kyiv hoping for a quick surrender. In modern warfare, once you encircle a city, the game is usually over because it cuts supply lines. They were never able to effectively do this. Ukraine kept hitting their supply lines and they never truly achieved air superiority. Ukraine blew up bridges and the wet terrain caused a lot of their trucks to get stranted

Finally some sense prevailed and they retreated to a winnable objective - take over Donbass. this is definitely doable for their army with numerical superiority. But now the problem is the supply lines are reopened and Ukraine gets more assistance from the west in terms of weapons and intelligence support so they will be able to drag on a war instead of being forced to sign up to a forced ceasefire. Eventually Ukraine will have to give up some territory which Putin will frame as a victory. But the costs Russia will end up spending to achieve that outcome is going to be astronomically high

 

[Gilly]

Another person who believes the western narrative.

My friend if you knew what the Russian was then the Ukrainian army would know what the strategy was and therefore they could negate/counter it. The whole plan in a war is to try and get the enemy to be where you want them to be so you can perhaps attack elsewhere.

The Russians are winning the economic war and the military war if you think otherwise you’ll be in for a rude shock. Remember a few weeks ago when they all collectively sanctioned Russia to immediately cripple them? Well they got that horribly wrong. The Russians will have a victory here in Ukraine and it will be a resounding victory. Of that there is no dispute amongst unpaid and independent military men. I actually am interested to see how the western MSM will present the bad news to their people.

I’m still waiting for someone who thinks that the Russians retreated from the north because they were beaten to explain to me how Russia should have taken a city the size of Kyiv with 50k soldiers.

By miscalculating how stiff the response would be from Ukraine. Russia lost a lot of men and a lot of equipment. If their aim was to lose thousands of soldiers and all the weapons then yes it was a resounding success.

 

[bones]

lol you just keep repeating the same thing over and over again convincing yourself its true.

The sanctions have hurt Russia A LOT, they are going to default soon which raises the cost of borrowing money. Obviously with oil and gas they are not going to be to be totally bankrupt. But the flight restrictions and the hi tech export bans hurt the country a lot, especially when they have to rebuild the military hardware destroyed in this attack. The timeline for this is in months and years and not days.

Russian strategy was to take the Hostomel airport, use that for bringing in more logistics and personnel and encircle Kyiv hoping for a quick surrender. In modern warfare, once you encircle a city, the game is usually over because it cuts supply lines. They were never able to effectively do this. Ukraine kept hitting their supply lines and they never truly achieved air superiority. Ukraine blew up bridges and the wet terrain caused a lot of their trucks to get stranted

Finally some sense prevailed and they retreated to a winnable objective - take over Donbass. this is definitely doable for their army with numerical superiority. But now the problem is the supply lines are reopened and Ukraine gets more assistance from the west in terms of weapons and intelligence support so they will be able to drag on a war instead of being forced to sign up to a forced ceasefire. Eventually Ukraine will have to give up some territory which Putin will frame as a victory. But the costs Russia will end up spending to achieve that outcome is going to be astronomically high

I repeat the same stuff over and over because it’s true. The Russians had no intention of taking Kyiv, it’s simply too large and for their military objectives was not as important as the southern land corridor. This importance will play out in the next phase. Just note that if the Russians wanted to they could easily have flattened Kyiv with some of their powerful missiles. They didn’t because they needed a government in place to sign any deal. The west has legitimised Zelensky to the point where they will recognise whatever he signs.

I agree the war hasn’t gone to plan but despite some incompetence and many supply line issues they are only slightly behind schedule. The Ukrainian forces in Donbas have major problems, no supplies and limited communications. That problem doesn’t exist for the Russians there and that’s why the independent military men have said they expect mass surrenders in the coming weeks.

The Russians had no intention of taking Kyiv I refuse to believe it because in WW2 the Germans needed 450k soldiers to encircle and take it. Kyiv is much bigger and more well protected now. In my opinion the entire Russian army would have been required to take the city. The alternative was/is to drop a huge number of units into a particular area and try to capture the leadership team but with modern AA and surveillance that’s a huge risk.

The Russians are outnumbered by 3 to 1 and they are controlling the chessboard.

In terms of the economy, there are a bunch of articles in the Financial Times that explain that the Russians will suffer but in 3-5 years when production is ramped up they will recover. They also go into detail about how Europe has shot itself in the foot by applying sanctions that inadvertently harm their economies. Europe is extremely dependent on Russian energy. MSM are not covering the story at all but industry experts say that production all over Europe is going to drop and Germany is already talking about rationing energy.

Have you seen the body language and speeches of Putin compared to Zelensky? One is pretty calm and the other is pleading for all sorts of support and aid. That should be enough to tell you how desperate the situation is for Ukraine.

 

[bones]

By miscalculating how stiff the response would be from Ukraine. Russia lost a lot of men and a lot of equipment. If their aim was to lose thousands of soldiers and all the weapons then yes it was a resounding success.

When you play chess do you just pick up pieces and put them where you want? No, you have move them in a way to respond to what your opponent is doing.

Doug McGregor, GD Bakshi and Scott Ritter recently said that the Russians had to split the Ukrainian army so they could complete the southern land corridor. This was objective number 1. They used manoeuvre warfare just like almost every successful side in history. The way they explain it is very very clear, the Russians sacrificed some pawns to take out several bigger pieces and they wanted to do this minimising civilian casualties. I am tired of repeating myself so all I’ll say is please do some research like I have, watch some independent reporting and then come back and tell me how you think Ukraine comes out of this looking anything like they did before the invasion,

 

[Gilly]

When you play chess do you just pick up pieces and put them where you want? No, you have move them in a way to respond to what your opponent is doing.

Doug McGregor, GD Bakshi and Scott Ritter recently said that the Russians had to split the Ukrainian army so they could complete the southern land corridor. This was objective number 1. They used manoeuvre warfare just like almost every successful side in history. The way they explain it is very very clear, the Russians sacrificed some pawns to take out several bigger pieces and they wanted to do this minimising civilian casualties. I am tired of repeating myself so all I’ll say is please do some research like I have, watch some independent reporting and then come back and tell me how you think Ukraine comes out of this looking anything like they did before the invasion,

Russia will not come out of this anything like they were before the invasion of Ukraine. The world has turned against Russia. I know you haven't but many have. Life is going to be much harder for Russians after this.

 

[bones]

Russia will not come out of this anything like they were before the invasion of Ukraine. The world has turned against Russia. I know you haven't but many have. Life is going to be much harder for Russians after this.

On The Duran podcast they were explaining how this war has been an eye opener for Russian people, they now understand that the west hates them. They now know exactly what their leaders kept telling them. So Russia will change its strategy and move business to the south and east. The new bloc is forming and China and India are fully aligned with Russia. Europe needs Russia more than Russia needs Europe. It will be years before the dependence on Russian energy diminishes.

The western world isn’t with Russia but China, India and many other smaller countries are with them and that will be enough to keep them afloat. Russia have locked the ruble to gold which was a great move.

 

[MenInG]

Powerful explosions have been heard in Kyiv and other Ukrainian cities, hours after a Russian warship allegedly attacked by Ukraine had sunk.

The Moskva, a missile cruiser, is the flagship of the Kremlin's Black Sea fleet and is understood to have sunk as it was towed back to port during bad weather after an explosion and fire.

Earlier, Russia's defence ministry said the Soviet-era vessel had been badly damaged by a fire, which Ukraine said was a result of its missile strike.

The Moskva's crew was evacuated on to other ships in the area, according to the Russian defence ministry, which admitted earlier that it was badly damaged.

"During the towing of the cruiser Moskva to the port of destination, the ship lost stability due to the damage to the hull received during the fire from the detonation of ammunition," the ministry was cited as saying.

"In the stormy sea conditions, the ship has sunk."

Overnight, air raid sirens were going off over much of Ukraine.

In addition to the capital Kyiv, blasts were also heard in the southern city of Kherson, the eastern city of Kharkiv and in Ukraine's western city of Ivano-Frankivsk.

In other developments:

• Volodymyr Zelenskyy praised Ukrainians in his nightly address for surviving 50 days under attack
• Karim Khan, International Criminal Court chief prosecutor, described Ukraine as a "crime scene"
• Vladimir Putin warned of "further consequences" for Western nations if Russian oil is replaced
• Russia claimed Ukrainian helicopters hit residential buildings and injured seven people in Bryansk
• The UK sanctioned two oligarchs who are close friends with Chelsea's owner Roman Abramovich

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-...krainians-has-sunk-state-owned-media-12590404

 

[MenInG]

A Russian warship that was damaged by an explosion on Wednesday has sunk, Russia's defence ministry has said.

Moskva, the flagship of Russia's Black Sea Fleet, was being towed to port when "stormy seas" caused it to sink, according to a ministry message.

The 510-crew missile cruiser was a symbol of Russia's military power, leading its naval assault on Ukraine.

Kyiv says its missiles hit the warship. Moscow has not reported any attack - it says the vessel sank after a fire.

The blaze caused the explosion of the warship's ammunition, Russia says, adding that the entire crew were later evacuated to nearby Russian vessels in the Black Sea.

 

[90MPH]

There is speculation that over 400 Russian crew may have drowned when the Moskova sunk.

The Turkish vessel nearby had said they only managed to pick up 50 Russian sailors when the warship started to go under.

As I say nothing confirmed yet but if it is corroborated there is no way the Russians can just hide such a disaster and sweep it under the carpet.

I remember the Kursk disaster in 2000 and the anger and disbelief it caused in Russia that killed 118 crew - this sinking could be 4 times worse and maybe finally the signal it gives to the Russian public that the war has been nothing but an unmitigated disaster.

 

[bones]

There is speculation that over 400 Russian crew may have drowned when the Moskova sunk.

The Turkish vessel nearby had said they only managed to pick up 50 Russian sailors when the warship started to go under.

As I say nothing confirmed yet but if it is corroborated there is no way the Russians can just hide such a disaster and sweep it under the carpet.

I remember the Kursk disaster in 2000 and the anger and disbelief it caused in Russia that killed 118 crew - this sinking could be 4 times worse and maybe finally the signal it gives to the Russian public that the war has been nothing but an unmitigated disaster.

The ship was being towed before it sank, do you think that any navy in the world would not evacuated most of the crew whilst it's being towed? What probably happened was the crew jumped onto some other navy ships in the black sea and the 50 left were the core crew needed during the towing. Once they knew it was going down, that core crew evacuated.

If the war has been a disaster why are droves upon droves Ukranians surrendering? Tons of videos on social media. I don't see droves upon droves of Russians surrendering.

If the war has been a disaster why is Zelensky pleading for weapons and aid? I don't see Russia doing the same, in fact Putin in his last appearance looked very normal. Seems to me like the Russians have finally decided to get the big boys and big toys out. 1st tank brigade deployed to Donbas. Strategic bombers on high alert. Ukraine MoD givng grim reports about what's happening in Donbas.

Also seems that gloves are coming off, see reports of multiple missile attacks all over the country last night. I think final preparations are being before they deal with the Ukranian army in the Donbas.

 

[bones]

Social Media stating that Azov battalion tried to escape from the Azovstal plant this morning, they were thwarted. We know there are foreign troops down there. They will not be rescued and they will not be able to escape. They have one option only, surrender.

 

[bones]

Western media said at the start of the invasion that around 15-20k Ukranians soldiers led by the Azov battalion were in Mariupol. This figure makes sense because if it was not that big Mariupol would have fallen in a week. So since 3000 soldiers have surrendered then it's unlikely there are more than 2000 left in the Azovstal plant & Primorsky area. That means the Ukranians have suffered horrific losses in this city. My only question is why? Why continue to fight to your death in a lost cause?

 

[bones]

Among the prisoners in Ukraine there are military personnel of NATO countries, said Klimov, deputy head of the United Russia commission.

"We already have prisoners among the military personnel of NATO countries, we will show all this when we conduct trials, and the whole world will see what really happened.”

 

[cpleigh]

NATO troops are not in Ukraine. Retired troops are there, by their own choosing.

 

[cpleigh]

The ship was being towed before it sank, do you think that any navy in the world would not evacuated most of the crew whilst it's being towed? What probably happened was the crew jumped onto some other navy ships in the black sea and the 50 left were the core crew needed during the towing. Once they knew it was going down, that core crew evacuated.

If the war has been a disaster why are droves upon droves Ukranians surrendering? Tons of videos on social media. I don't see droves upon droves of Russians surrendering.

If the war has been a disaster why is Zelensky pleading for weapons and aid? I don't see Russia doing the same, in fact Putin in his last appearance looked very normal. Seems to me like the Russians have finally decided to get the big boys and big toys out. 1st tank brigade deployed to Donbas. Strategic bombers on high alert. Ukraine MoD givng grim reports about what's happening in Donbas.

Also seems that gloves are coming off, see reports of multiple missile attacks all over the country last night. I think final preparations are being before they deal with the Ukranian army in the Donbas.

They've literally asked Kazakhstan, Armenia, Belarus for troops and China for weapons. They've even advertised in Syria and africa for troops.

Must say the frothing at the mouth on Russian state tv is a little extreme for a ship that simply had an accidental explosion and sunk in bad weather whislt being towed...

 

[bones]

They've literally asked Kazakhstan, Armenia, Belarus for troops and China for weapons. They've even advertised in Syria and africa for troops.

Must say the frothing at the mouth on Russian state tv is a little extreme for a ship that simply had an accidental explosion and sunk in bad weather whislt being towed...

The ship is a huge blow for the morale I agree but it’s not going to change the outcome of the war. Ithe pentagon says it was a fire and that they have no evidence of a missile attack. I’m not sure who to believe on this one except that it has sunk.

 

[mazkhan]

Bones is smoking some serious s ***

Haven't met a more deluded poster than this guy when it comes to this topic ,

I'm on russias side but even I keep an open mind and use my brain and can see this war is fast turning into a disaster and Russia has track record in disasters and propaganda.

The very country they have invaded they tried to cover up and deny the chernobyl reactor explosion which along with the Afghan war was the final nail in the coffin of the soviet Union.

 

[bones]

Bones is smoking some serious s ***

Haven't met a more deluded poster than this guy when it comes to this topic ,

I'm on russias side but even I keep an open mind and use my brain and can see this war is fast turning into a disaster and Russia has track record in disasters and propaganda.

The very country they have invaded they tried to cover up and deny the chernobyl reactor explosion which along with the Afghan war was the final nail in the coffin of the soviet Union.

Almost all countries have a history of propaganda and lying about major events. The US, Pakistan, India, China even Japan for example with the Massacre of Nanking.

But a country's history shouldn't be used against them for an eternity should it?

The Russians are winning the war, they may have performed to the best of their capability but make no mistake this is a professional army executing a different kind of invasion. They have deliberately left the electricity, communications and water running in most of the country when they could have taken all of that out on day one.

What people just cannot seem to understand is, the Russians didn't set out to conquer Ukraine. It's simply too big of a country.

The Russians are winning and they are winning easily - all you need to do is step away from western MSM.

An example of why we shouldn't trust western MSM is the train station attack at Kramatorsk. The evidence is clearly pointing towards the Ukrainians doing it and since it is, they have gone quiet. Initially all the blame was aimed at Russia.

 

[JaDed]

Atleast one thing is for certain Russian defense needs massive modernization.

Downed your own damn ship (even if not agreeing to Ukrainian version) unable to take over Ukraine which was supposed to be not that difficult on paper for Russia.


Ukrainians showing a lot of resolve, respect but not sure how long they can keep going.

 

[bones]

Atleast one thing is for certain Russian defense needs massive modernization.

unable to take over Ukraine which was supposed to be not that difficult on paper for Russia.

The Russians don't invest in their defence anywhere near as much as they used to. That said they still have plenty of equipment that is stat of the art and ahead of their main rivals. For example they are the first to have delivered hyper-sonic missile for which no one has a counter. They have hardly used their TOS-1 or even the Su-3x or Su-5x jets.

Do people have any understand of how big Ukraine is? To take a country this side you'd need an enormous army.

The Ukrainian army is well equipped and well trained (by Nato) so the idea that Russians should have won this easily because they're fighting farmers with pitch fork is so far from the truth.

The reality is you have a professional army fighting another professional and to expect battles to be over in days when is reaching out a fair bit.

 

[mazkhan]

Most of these russian weapons systems are all paper tigers they look good on paper on the field they lack.

The indians have found that out using Russian junk

 

[AMSS]

Russia has a history of absorbing punishing losses and plowing onward and stand their ground. So, the loss of a battleship here and a warplane there is not the definitive signal of this war's direction.

OTOH, it's also true that Russia's industrial machine is not the same as it used to be in Soviet era.

And Ukraine is nothing to sneeze at in terms of hard military power. They have by far the largest standing army in all of Europe - bar Russia. Combine the above with the NATO standard training they have received since 2014 and the military hardware provided by the NATO.

In this war, they've also received 24/7 real time intelligence from all the NATO assets - spy planes to satellites about Russian positions, firepower, movements etc.

Did Russia overestimate their ability to overpower Ukraine? Maybe they did. But on plain facts alone, I don't see how any military could do any better than what the Russians have accomplished with the resources they have deployed for this special military ops

 

[AMSS]

Most of these russian weapons systems are all paper tigers they look good on paper on the field they lack.

The indians have found that out using Russian junk

During the serbian bombing campaign, the NATO lost their cutting edge NightHawk to a soviet era surface to air missile.

So, not the junk want to paint them as. Or why else would India be ready to run the risk of CAATSA for S400 system?

During exercises with Indian Navy, US carrier battle group failed to detect India's Kilo class sub which came within sniping range of their carrier.

This is not to say Russian wares are as good as western military hardware. There are obvious reliability and availability issues. But they work.

 

[James]

I don’t think Russia are “losing” this war, but I don’t think they are winning it either. Since the beginning of the invasion of Ukraine, this has been an underperformance from them.

 

[MenInG]

Moscow says it will respond to any Ukrainian attacks on Russian territory by striking Kyiv with more missiles.

The "number and scale" of attacks will go up if its own settlements become targets, the ministry said.

The warning came as Russia announced a missile strike on a military factory near Kyiv, which it claimed was in response to a Ukrainian helicopter attack on a Russian village.

Ukraine denies it carried out the attack.

"Tonight, sea-based high precision long-range "Kalibr" missiles hit a military facility in the outskirts of Kyiv," Russian defence ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said.

The strike targeted Ukraine's Vizar military facility that was producing and repairing anti-aircraft and anti-ship missile systems, Mr Konashenkov added, warning that Russia would intensify missile attacks on Kyiv if Ukraine continued what he described as attacks on Russian land.

He said: "The number and scale of missile strikes against objects in Kyiv will increase in response to the commission of any attacks of a terrorist nature or sabotage on Russian territory by the Kyiv nationalist regime."

Andrei Sizov, a 47-year-old owner of a wood workshop near the factory, told the AFP news agency that the blasts came overnight.

"Around 1:30am, my security guard called me because there was an air strike," he said.

"There were five hits. My employee was in the office and got thrown off his feet by the blast."

He also said he believed Russia was taking revenge for the sinking of the Moskva warship, which Ukraine claims it hit with Neptune missiles.

On Thursday Russian officials accused Ukraine of sending two helicopters 10km (6 miles) into Russia's Bryansk region, bombing a residential building in the village of Klimovo and injuring eight people.

Kyiv denies the attack and accused Russia of staging the incident to stir up "anti-Ukrainian hysteria".

The BBC has not been able to verify the claims.

In other developments:
More than 5 million people have fled Ukraine since the Russian invasion on 24 February, the United Nations says
Russia has warned the US of unpredictable consequences if Washington and its Nato allies continue to arm Ukraine, The Washington Post reports
Prosecutors in Ukraine say Russian troops opened fire on a bus convoy evacuating residents from the town of Borova, south of Kharkiv, on Thursday, killing seven people and wounding 27
Officials in the besieged city of Mariupol say Russian occupiers have begun exhuming bodies buried in the yards of residential blocks
Russian forces started withdrawing in March from around the Ukrainian capital to focus on Russian efforts to seize eastern parts of the country, but Kyiv remains vulnerable to missile strikes.

In its statement the Russian defence ministry made no mention of the sinking of its Black Sea naval flagship overnight.

The military factory targeted in the strike produced anti-ship missiles, including some similar to the Neptune ones that Ukraine claims to have used to attack and sink the Moskva vessel.

The Russian account of the warship's sinking differs. Moscow defence officials claim an unexplained fire onboard caused ammunition to explode, ultimately causing the Moskva to "lose its balance" as it was being towed to port.

It is still not independently confirmed how the heavily-defended Black Sea flagship sank.

BBC

 

[bones]

I don’t think Russia are “losing” this war, but I don’t think they are winning it either. Since the beginning of the invasion of Ukraine, this has been an underperformance from them.

According to independent and reliable military guys this war is over bar the fat lady singing. American intelligence and other nato intelligence know this but they are too deep into it to let the surrender happen.

 

[AMSS]

This war is dangerous because NATO/West is not going to allow the natural equilibrium to be reached. The West is not paying the consequences of this war but they are fully in charge of it. Nobody has any doubts that Zelensky and his puppet government has any power/legitimacy to negotiate on the behalf of Ukranians in good faith.

In other words, the West will fight to the last willing Ukranian. The Russians know it and they'd be super wary not to fall in the trap of a forever war. But they would also not stand for an exit that is interpreted as a climbdown/loss/surrender.

Just the perfect war for US/UK. Not so much for the EU.

 

[AMSS]

What are the odds that a NATO supplied stray stinger downs a civilian plane over the baltic skies and makes the whole of EU brown their pants? Inflation, civil aviation disruption, and maybe some IRA style terror attacks in the heart of EU.

Can the EU collectively take it?

 

[oatmeal]

In this war, they've also received 24/7 real time intelligence from all the NATO assets - spy planes to satellites about Russian positions, firepower, movements etc.

This is a crucial point. Ukraine is receiving very good intel from NATO so are able to target Russian hardware with precision. But ultimately they are also very motivated to fight for their homeland. They stood their ground and didnt run away during the initial assault

 

[bones]

What are the odds that a NATO supplied stray stinger downs a civilian plane over the baltic skies and makes the whole of EU brown their pants? Inflation, civil aviation disruption, and maybe some IRA style terror attacks in the heart of EU.

Can the EU collectively take it?

Civilians are apparently already selling on the black market and Ukrainian soldiers have been recorded selling to Russians.

It’s just insanity all around. Russians now have more nato small arms than many nato countries because of what they have captured.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Russia is now steping up its attacks.

The stupidy of the Ukranian supporters is beyond words. Russia is one of the most powerful forces in history. Russia didnt want to kill civilians like Nato have done in Iraq, Libya etc.

If Russia wanted it could destroy every Ukranian city from the air.

Once the East is liberated and secured, the Ukranians can do as they wish. Any attack on Russia after this, will be given a brutal strong response.

 

[cpleigh]

Russia has killed countless civilians in Syria and more recently Africa. Stop pretending Russia are being the good guys

 

[KingKhanWC]

Russia has killed countless civilians in Syria and more recently Africa. Stop pretending Russia are being the good guys

Nato which is US and its lapdogs have destroyed multiple nations, their policies of war of terror cost 4 million lives. Russia got rid of ISIS in Syria, it saved Syria from these mercenaries. Otherwise Iran would have been next.

 

[JaDed]

You can’t expect Ukrainians not to fight for their homeland.. that will be absurd..they are not surrendering which most of us thought would happen within 2 weeks respect to them for that.

 

[oatmeal]

US intelligence has confirmed the Russian cruiser was sunk by Ukrainian missiles. They were not so sure till yesterday but only said the damage was extensive.

The Russian story of a random fire causing a munition explosion and sinking the ship while being towed was hard to believe.

We will probably never get a real casualty count from Russia but it would have been significant if there was a missile attack and munition explosion

 

[oatmeal]

You can’t expect Ukrainians not to fight for their homeland.. that will be absurd..they are not surrendering which most of us thought would happen within 2 weeks respect to them for that.

Indeed. Its incredibly hard to occupy territory against a motivated opponent in unfriendly terrain even for much superior armies. Afghanistan fell the day Americans decided to leave despite they having the most powerful military.

I thought Russia would be able to install a puppet government after the Ukrainians surrender in a week or 10 days and then face a protracted insurgency. But Ukraine fought back valiantly despite taking heavy military and civilian losses

 

[KingKhanWC]

You can’t expect Ukrainians not to fight for their homeland.. that will be absurd..they are not surrendering which most of us thought would happen within 2 weeks respect to them for that.

Thousands have surrendered in the last few days alone. When you run out of food , water and ammo, there is no other option. Russians arent torturing them then shooting them dead while making a tik tok video as the Azov Nazis have been doing.

Russia actually wants good relations with Ukraine, as it did before the Nato backed coup in 2014. Russia just doesnt want a Nato puppet government along with Nazis with powerful weapons on its doorstep.

 

[JaDed]

Thousands have surrendered in the last few days alone. When you run out of food , water and ammo, there is no other option. Russians arent torturing them then shooting them dead while making a tik tok video as the Azov Nazis have been doing.

Russia actually wants good relations with Ukraine, as it did before the Nato backed coup in 2014. Russia just doesnt want a Nato puppet government along with Nazis with powerful weapons on its doorstep.

It’s sovereign nation, but let’s not go in loops with this argument.

You are supporting Russia which is ok, but I can only respect the courage of Ukrainians going against Might Russian power which isn’t as strong as it used to be , they destroyed their own ship.

Russia will not be able to install anyone at current rate and if Finland , Sweden join NATO ( two countries that wanted to be neutral) it will be a self goal.

 

[JaDed]

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022...sian-service-blocked-over-war-coverage-a77368

Moscow Times' Russian Service Blocked Over War Coverage

At least 40 domestic and foreign websites have been blocked since the start of Russia’s war in Ukraine on Feb. 24.

Many of the country’s remaining independent outlets have suspended operations after being accused of spreading “unreliable” information that does not come from “official Russian information outlets.”

 

[JaDed]

Western Nations might use propaganda but they always allow criticism of their leaders and parties’ policies whether in movies or journalism, books, same cannot be said about Russia or China.

 

[KingKhanWC]

It’s sovereign nation, but let’s not go in loops with this argument.

You are supporting Russia which is ok, but I can only respect the courage of Ukrainians going against Might Russian power which isn’t as strong as it used to be , they destroyed their own ship.

Russia will not be able to install anyone at current rate and if Finland , Sweden join NATO ( two countries that wanted to be neutral) it will be a self goal.

Russia doesnt care about Finland or Sweden. Ukraine has historic ties to Russia, its on its doorstep and it was Nato who installed its puppet government. The current actor PM has been given $1.5 billion to do the dirty work for Nato.

Nato is the aggressor in this conflict. It had been training Ukrainian forces for 15 months prior. All a big set up to attack and damage Russia, with a goal of regime change. But this isnt the early 1900's. Russia isnt Libya or Iraq, proved now how cowardly Nato are.

God bless the Christians of Russia, victory is very near now.

 

[90MPH]

Nato which is US and its lapdogs have destroyed multiple nations, their policies of war of terror cost 4 million lives. Russia got rid of ISIS in Syria, it saved Syria from these mercenaries. Otherwise Iran would have been next.

Lmao, that is nothing but absurd pro Assad propaganda to suggest Russia was only targeting ISIS.

They were overwhelmingly actually targeting Assad’s domestic enemies as Assad’s government at one point was on the verge of collapsing.

It’s well documented the savage aerial bombing the Russians along with Assad’s forces inflicted on Aleppo and they killed thousands of civilians in that city alone to break the siege.

It’s ok to criticise Russia, you don’t have to give them a pass on their war crimes just because America and the some of the west have engaged in them in the Middle East.

 

[MenInG]

Ukraine has claimed the captain of a Russian warship that was sunk in the Black Sea has been killed on board.

Anton Gerashchenko, an adviser to Ukraine's ministry of internal affairs, shared the claim on Telegram saying that the ship's captain, Anton Kuprin, had died during an "explosion and fire on board".

The Moskva went down as it was being towed to port in rough seas after an explosion of ammo caused a fire, according to the Kremlin.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Lmao, that is nothing but absurd pro Assad propaganda to suggest Russia was only targeting ISIS.

They were overwhelmingly actually targeting Assad’s domestic enemies as Assad’s government at one point was on the verge of collapsing.

It’s well documented the savage aerial bombing the Russians along with Assad’s forces inflicted on Aleppo and they killed thousands of civilians in that city alone to break the siege.

It’s ok to criticise Russia, you don’t have to give them a pass on their war crimes just because America and the some of the west have engaged in them in the Middle East.

lol. See the Syrian thread, Ive wrote on it many years ago.

ISIS is just one, Al-Qaeda are amongst the others including in the FSA(google what it means). Nato openly supported Al-Qaeda.

You are very naive when it comes to geo-politics and military combat operations.

You are defending Nazis in Ukraine and Al-Qaeda in Syria along with histories greatest terrorist Nato.

 

[90MPH]

US intelligence has confirmed the Russian cruiser was sunk by Ukrainian missiles. They were not so sure till yesterday but only said the damage was extensive.

The Russian story of a random fire causing a munition explosion and sinking the ship while being towed was hard to believe.

We will probably never get a real casualty count from Russia but it would have been significant if there was a missile attack and munition explosion

It’s very clear now that that this ship was hit by Ukrainian cruise missiles but the Russian propagandists can’t even acknowledge this.

I mean even if we buy the absurd story that this warship “caught fire” and sunk that alone would suggest huge incompetence by the Russian forces to lose such a massive prestige warship.

However no one is buying this ridiculous propaganda because state of the art warships don’t just suddenly catch fire and sink in the Black Sea.

So as I say everything points to a well targeted attack as the Ukrainian millitary say they distracted the Russian crew of the Moskva with a drone before launching this attack and that’s seems very plausible.

 

[90MPH]

lol. See the Syrian thread, Ive wrote on it many years ago.

ISIS is just one, Al-Qaeda are amongst the others including in the FSA(google what it means). Nato openly supported Al-Qaeda.

You are very naive when it comes to geo-politics and military combat operations.

You are defending Nazis in Ukraine and Al-Qaeda in Syria along with histories greatest terrorist Nato.

Lol, Khan you are a joke, imagine painting the whole of Ukraine as Nazis and 80% of the Sunni Muslim in Syria population as Al Qaeda supporters.

You are so desperate to defend war criminals like Putin and Assad you will cover up all their war crimes and butchery even against Muslims because in your contrarian mind everything is a war against America and the evil west.

Yes you are right this thread shouldn’t be diverted but regardless your pro Assad/Putin propaganda shouldn’t get a pass here either.

 

[mazkhan]

I believe the moskva has Osa missile system along with a naval version of s300.

The s300 and s400 were triumphed by the russians as the best .

Look like this s300 on the moskva never even engaged the anti ship missiles .

Like I said most of these russian weapons are only good on paper.

 

[bones]

So let’s say the ship was hit by missiles. It is a morale blow to the Russians and humiliating.

After some research I discovered that the Russians actually used it for radar during this operation. It means that the missiles were being launched from those other ships. Not to say radar isn’t important but this isn’t a game changer.

Russia have started to use the high altitude bombers now so definitely in phase 2.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Lol, Khan you are a joke, imagine painting the whole of Ukraine as Nazis and 80% of the Sunni Muslim in Syria population as Al Qaeda supporters.

You are so desperate to defend war criminals like Putin and Assad you will cover up all their war crimes and butchery even against Muslims because in your contrarian mind everything is a war against America and the evil west.

Yes you are right this thread shouldn’t be diverted but regardless your pro Assad/Putin propaganda shouldn’t get a pass here either.

I never said the whole of Ukraine, your reading skills are on par with your debating skills.

It makes no difference to me personally what the outcome is. Im merely speaking the truth, you should try it sometime instead of defending Nato, Nazis, Al-Qaeda and a puppet PM who has pocketed $1.5 billion dollars and is only causing suffering to the Ukranian people.

Please do bump up the thread, one of PP's greatest time pass threads with so much information. I challenge you to a debate on Syria too.

 

[90MPH]

I believe the moskva has Osa missile system along with a naval version of s300.

The s300 and s400 were triumphed by the russians as the best .

Look like this s300 on the moskva never even engaged the anti ship missiles .

Like I said most of these russian weapons are only good on paper.

The US has confirmed 2 Neptune cruise missiles hit the ship and yes while this warship is supposed to have amazing anti war ship missiles they never engaged them because it seems the crew seems to have been caught off guard with a drone that seems to have been deliberately designed to distract them.

Now the only question is casualties because the captain has perished with the Ukrainians already publishing a photo of him. How many of the crew died we don’t know for sure but could well be hundreds but we should know in the coming days .

 

[mazkhan]

Apparently the admiral of the black sea fleet has been arrested.

 

[bones]

Apparently the admiral of the black sea fleet has been arrested.

By who and how?

 

[90MPH]

I never said the whole of Ukraine, your reading skills are on par with your debating skills.

It makes no difference to me personally what the outcome is. Im merely speaking the truth, you should try it sometime instead of defending Nato, Nazis, Al-Qaeda and a puppet PM who has pocketed $1.5 billion dollars and is only causing suffering to the Ukranian people.

Please do bump up the thread, one of PP's greatest time pass threads with so much information. I challenge you to a debate on Syria too.

Like I said you are a joke Khan and I have no intention of opening another thread like Syria where you are going to parrot the same Putin/Assad appolgia.

On the Nazi accusation where did I defend them ? Show me 1 post but of course you contrarians lie just like the notorious war criminals you defend constantly like Putin and Assad.
Just to clarify I said don’t paint the whole Ukrainian millitary as Nazis but of course in your twisted logic you have interpreted as me defending them and then when I said Russian/Assad war crimes were committed In Syria you have subsituted Nazis for Al Qaeda.
You really think the 11 year civil war in Syria that has killed half a million people is between Assad and Al Aqeda ? And if you defend Syrian civilians from getting butchered that equates to defending Al Qaeda ?
Do you know how absurd you sound by making such a pathetic simplistic analysis ?

Of course this doesn’t matter to you personally. For you it’s just a silly game where everything is black and white. Since the west and NATO are the bad guys everyone else must be the good guys so nuance goes out of the window with you.

I have absolutely no intention of bumping that Syria thread to engage any conversation with someone who acts in bad faith. I hope that is clear.

 

[cpleigh]

By who and how?

The russians. Putin eating his own military alive

 

[KingKhanWC]

Like I said you are a joke Khan and I have no intention of opening another thread like Syria where you are going to parrot the same Putin/Assad appolgia.

On the Nazi accusation where did I defend them ? Show me 1 post but of course you contrarians lie just like the notorious war criminals you defend constantly like Putin and Assad.
Just to clarify I said don’t paint the whole Ukrainian millitary as Nazis but of course in your twisted logic you have interpreted as me defending them and then when I said Russian/Assad war crimes were committed In Syria you have subsituted Nazis for Al Qaeda.
You really think the 11 year civil war in Syria that has killed half a million people is between Assad and Al Aqeda ? And if you defend Syrian civilians from getting butchered that equates to defending Al Qaeda ?
Do you know how absurd you sound by making such a pathetic simplistic analysis ?

Of course this doesn’t matter to you personally. For you it’s just a silly game where everything is black and white. Since the west and NATO are the bad guys everyone else must be the good guys so nuance goes out of the window with you.

I have absolutely no intention of bumping that Syria thread to engage any conversation with someone who acts in bad faith. I hope that is clear.

lol. When you are able to construct a mature argument, then feel free to call others a joke.

Nazis are the national guard, in government and in almost all brigades. Azov were sent to the east for this region ,the land where most of the fighting and the land where win or loss will be confirmed.

Read back through this thread, many points have been raised by you ignore and have a mental tantrum.

Your choice but you could learn a lot from the thread.

I would prefer it you dont mention or quote me too. So we are on the same page here. Good luck to your hero the Jewish PM of Ukraine who has made $1.5 billion, insisted Ukraine will copy Israel and is causing destruction to the Ukranian people/land for the benefits of Nato, the worlds biggest terrorist org.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The US has confirmed 2 Neptune cruise missiles hit the ship and yes while this warship is supposed to have amazing anti war ship missiles they never engaged them because it seems the crew seems to have been caught off guard with a drone that seems to have been deliberately designed to distract them.

Now the only question is casualties because the captain has perished with the Ukrainians already publishing a photo of him. How many of the crew died we don’t know for sure but could well be hundreds but we should know in the coming days .

The US has confirmed? Then why would we even need to ask anyone else's opinion. Google, Facebook, Apple, Huawei, Toyota, I'm sure they are all have their own concerns, nothing to do with US at all.

 

[oatmeal]

I believe the moskva has Osa missile system along with a naval version of s300.

The s300 and s400 were triumphed by the russians as the best .

Look like this s300 on the moskva never even engaged the anti ship missiles .

Like I said most of these russian weapons are only good on paper.

They have spent a lot of money on the armed forces but its rife with grift and kickbacks and it shows during a long military operation.

A lot of armored trucks got stranded during the march to Kyiv because the Ukrainians destroyed the bridges and flooded the plains. The tyres were of inferior quality and couldnt withstand the wear and tear and the trucks had to be abandoned.

 

[MenInG]

Summary

Moscow formally warns of "unpredictable consequences" if the US and allies keep supplying weapons to Ukraine

President Volodymyr Zelensky says the world should be prepared for the possibility Russia will target Ukraine with a nuclear strike

The Kremlin previously said it would only resort to nuclear weapons if faced with an "existential threat"

Kyiv's police chief says 900 civilians have been found dead in towns around the capital after Russian troops left

Russia says it hit a plant making anti-aircraft and anti-ship missiles outside the Ukrainian capital, KyivIt came hours after it admitted that the Moskva warship had sunk following an explosion on Wednesday

Ukraine says it hit the Russian cruiser in the Black Sea with missiles - Russia said a fire on board caused the sinking

Bbc

 

[sweep_shot]

What's the endgame of Russia here?

Do they want to annex the entire Ukraine or just the eastern portion of it?

 

[bones]

What's the endgame of Russia here?

Do they want to annex the entire Ukraine or just the eastern portion of it?

We don’t know, no one knows except the Russian leadership. All of Ukraine would require mobilising hundreds of thousands more soldiers which would be a challenge in itself.

 

[cpleigh]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1514967277137022977

Their goal is evident. Completely wipe Ukraine off the map. More rhetoric on Kremlin tv last night.... the idea of people claiming to be Ukranian is offensive to them

 

[90MPH]

The US has confirmed? Then why would we even need to ask anyone else's opinion. Google, Facebook, Apple, Huawei, Toyota, I'm sure they are all have their own concerns, nothing to do with US at all.

I don’t take everything what the US says on face value but actually they have solid intelligence in the country and the region and one of the reasons Russian forces are getting battered and retreated from around Kyiv was because of the solid intel the Ukraine forces were getting.
Remember Biden came out and said Russia was going to enter Ukraine before the invasion begun, at least 1 week before so their intel was spot on.

Regarding the warship the Pentagon didn’t confirm anything when the warship got hit initially but only confirmed it later after the Ukrainian insisted it got hit by 2 cruise missiles.

And that is the only plausible theory because warships don’t just suddenly sink after an “accidental fire”. - it’s just a face saving measure by the Russian state for the Russian public to swallow after losing a £700 million asset.

 

[MenInG]

Boris Johnson, Liz Truss and Ben Wallace barred entry to Russia

Russia's foreign ministry has banned Prime Minister Boris Johnson, Foreign Secretary Liz Truss, Defence Secretary Ben Wallace and 10 other British government members from entering Russia.

The move was taken "in view of the unprecedented hostile action by the British government, in particular the imposition of sanctions against senior Russian officials," the ministry said in a statement, adding that it would expand the list soon.

Also banned from entering Russia are:

Dominic Raab
Grant Shapps
Priti Patel
Rishi Sunak
Kwasi Kwarteng
Nadine Dorries
James Heappey
Nicola Sturgeon
Suella Braverman
Theresa May

 

[cpleigh]

it's hilarious people are buying the 'liberating from Nazi's'. Lets do a Nazi checklist:

Ban all oppostion
Murder all political rivals
Control all state media
Ban all other media
Ban all other groups like Gay or trans etc
Create multiple false flag operations to further escalate and gain more control
Tell people all they want is to liberate ethnic speaking people
Tell people they definitely have no intention of attacking
Hoodwink the world with large sports events gloryfing the country.

We've seen this play before.... and we know how it ends

 

[90MPH]

lol. When you are able to construct a mature argument, then feel free to call others a joke.

Nazis are the national guard, in government and in almost all brigades. Azov were sent to the east for this region ,the land where most of the fighting and the land where win or loss will be confirmed.

Read back through this thread, many points have been raised by you ignore and have a mental tantrum.

Your choice but you could learn a lot from the thread.

I would prefer it you dont mention or quote me too. So we are on the same page here. Good luck to your hero the Jewish PM of Ukraine who has made $1.5 billion, insisted Ukraine will copy Israel and is causing destruction to the Ukranian people/land for the benefits of Nato, the worlds biggest terrorist org.

Lol, what am I going to learn from you ? You are just repeating nothing but the same contrarian nonsense talking points.
You never back up any of the information you say. On this topic alone you just keep saying “Russia is winning” lmao. You are as deluded as one can get when the evidence points the other way.

Your hero Putin has slaughtered tens of thousands of Muslims in Chechnya alone in the most brutal way but of course you will not mention that and give that criminal a pass and instead focus on the “Jewish PM”because you can’t hide your open bigotry as if his religion has anything to do with the conflict we are taking about but of course in your absurd worldview there must be a connection.
Btw Zelensky had a chat with Imran as well recently but you probably just brushed that aside as well.

Lmao, also imagine focusing on Zelsnksys wealth when Putin has stolen so much money with the oligarchs in Russia.
He is the actual multi-billionaire that has stolen money from the Russian people but of course itÂ’s just another pathetic diversion tactic to take the spotlight away from his corruption.

As for not quoting me I couldnÂ’t care less. I can return the compliment but I will call out nonsense when I see it.

 

[bones]

Remember Biden came out and said Russia was going to enter Ukraine before the invasion begun, at least 1 week before so their intel was spot on.

What about the Russians and the Chinese? Don't they have solid intel too? Their intel was telling them that Ukranian forces had amassed and were about to launch an offensive against the LPR and DPR militias in early March. The Russians attacked before the Ukranians could and caught them off guard.

The evidence of a Ukranian attack is clear just by how well set up and how many forces they have in Donbas. This is not like Kyiv where they are to get troops ready, in Donbas the NATO trained Ukranian army was already ready.

The reality is and I have said this time and time again, the Russians are winning this conflict and easily. They have done this all using 200k troops and hardly any of their newer tanks or strategic bombers.

 

[oatmeal]

Ukrainian troops have killed Russian Maj. Gen. Vladimir Frolov, deputy commander of the Eighth Army: Russian state media reports

Frolov is either the 7th or 8th Russian General killed in the war

 

[Jadz]

US intelligence has confirmed the Russian cruiser was sunk by Ukrainian missiles. They were not so sure till yesterday but only said the damage was extensive.

The Russian story of a random fire causing a munition explosion and sinking the ship while being towed was hard to believe.

We will probably never get a real casualty count from Russia but it would have been significant if there was a missile attack and munition explosion

So you believe US Intel - after its record of lies, deception and propaganda, most notably the non-existent WMDs in Iraq? The agenda of the US/West is clear: weaponize Ukraine against Russia in order to destabilize and balkanize it, opening the path to China, regime-changing Iran along the way and taking control of oil-rich former Soviet States. That is full spectrum dominance - effectively implementing US global hegemony.

Virtually all of Russian news media has been banned, censored, de-platformed in the West, whilst few take the time or trouble to seek out genuinely independent sources. I am posting the following links for people to read articles, listen to independent journalists and decide for themselves wherein lies truth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUWfEY2Zj8U

https://21stcenturywire.com/2022/04...idents-accuse-ukraine-of-firing-on-civilians/

https://thegrayzone.com/2022/04/15/us-eu-sacrificing-ukraine-to-weaken-russia-fmr-nato-adviser/

 

[cpleigh]

'Virtuallly all Russian media has been band in the West... and in russia'

Stop thinking Russia are angels. They are thugs.