Russia invades Ukraine

[Robert]

It's true. Whilst everyone has been distracted by Kharkiv ukraine is starting to make serious gains in kherson now. Around 500skm liberated this weekend.

Gobsmacking. I can barely believe it - Russia is being routed.

 

[James]

Jaw dropping if true......

View attachment 117067

Is this multiple-sourced.

Extraordinary difference in the “before and after”.

 

[Robert]

I wrote NEUTRAL , Russian and also any other sources.

BBC is nothing more than a propaganda tool for the government esp when it comes to conflicts.

See the BBC now...

Ukraine have been told by the EU, Nato and other allies to do something now. Billions of weapons, a lot manpower including mercenaries or foreigners are equipped to send the Russians out. Neutral sources will say Ukraine has had some success as Russia has left large areas. But Ukrainians have also lost thousands in the last week, not what you will hear on BBC.

This is Ukrainians last big attack before winter sets in. If they capture Mariupol it will be a major success. If they fail this time, the Europeans will see so many protests over the winter, they will demand a peace deal, Russia will win the conflict.

Also a Nato, US, British empire supporter and someone who claims the occupation of Iraq was justified, has little credibility to accuse others. Julian Assange also says hi.

Untrue. I do not support Empire. It did terrible harm. Atlantic Passage, Irish Famine, several nineteenth century Indian famines, British Army of Mesopotamia stealing the Iranian harvest in 1918 so half the population starved to death. These things are unconscionable.

You once said I don't change my mind, but I did on Iraq. It was a humanitarian disaster.

I'll accuse whoever I think deserves it

 

[KingKhanWC]

Untrue. I do not support Empire. It did terrible harm. Atlantic Passage, Irish Famine, several nineteenth century Indian famines, British Army of Mesopotamia stealing the Iranian harvest in 1918 so half the population starved to death. These things are unconscionable.

You once said I don't change my mind, but I did on Iraq. It was a humanitarian disaster.

I'll accuse whoever I think deserves it

I appreciate you honesty and Im happy you accept the Iraq war was such a disaster.

I never stated any leader is great human being. I said Putin is a genius, which is true as he is winning the economic war and changing the world right now. Putin for years set in motion to counter the power of the dollar, he is succeeding now.

As he pointed out, If Brits can travel thousands of miles to protect a colony , go war with Argentina. Russia has the right to defend its borders after years of Nato training people to attack , cause war on their border in former Russian territory with Russian speakers.

You cannot beat such a strong power, its best to make some sort of peace deal. Russia is not Iraq.

 

[James]

Good debate going but please leave out the needless personal attacks.

Politely copying across from the monarchy thread because exact same applies.

 

[dildilpak]

Question now will be - Will Putin survive if Russia retreats from Ukraine?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Question now will be - Will Putin survive if Russia retreats from Ukraine?

Putin has a huge approval rating in Russia.

Russia will not leave, this is too stretch the Ukrainians over larger land only to wipe them out. Thousands have perished and more will. By end of Sept, they will retreat and Europe will freeze.

 

[Robert]

I appreciate you honesty and Im happy you accept the Iraq war was such a disaster.

I never stated any leader is great human being. I said Putin is a genius, which is true as he is winning the economic war and changing the world right now. Putin for years set in motion to counter the power of the dollar, he is succeeding now.

As he pointed out, If Brits can travel thousands of miles to protect a colony , go war with Argentina. Russia has the right to defend its borders after years of Nato training people to attack , cause war on their border in former Russian territory with Russian speakers.

The difference is that the Falklands are a British Overseas Territory invaded by Argentina. Ukraine has been an independent nation for thirty years, and did not attack Russian troops until it was invaded.

NATO borders Russia but has never encroached on Russia, so this defending borders comment is false.

The ironic thing for Putin is that the NATO border with Russia is about to extend by 900 miles when Finland joins, as a result of this invasion. He has boxed Russia in even more.

 

[dildilpak]

Putin has a huge approval rating in Russia.

Russia will not leave, this is too stretch the Ukrainians over larger land only to wipe them out. Thousands have perished and more will. By end of Sept, they will retreat and Europe will freeze.

To suggest that the retreat is strategic is disingenuous - even the nationalist supporters of Putin are lambasting the lack of on-ground support to Russian forces in Ukraine right now. Currently - yes Putin has a huge approval rating, but dont think he will survive the backlash if he retreats/loses & Russia can descend into civil war for his succession. Europe has braved far worser conditions in WW1/2 & will survive the lack of heat as well.

 

[cpleigh]

Why are the Russian bots peddling this myth that come 'october Europe will be freezing and in darkness' absolute lol.

Even Germany which is dependant on Russian gas says it can cope this winter

 

[KingKhanWC]

To suggest that the retreat is strategic is disingenuous - even the nationalist supporters of Putin are lambasting the lack of on-ground support to Russian forces in Ukraine right now. Currently - yes Putin has a huge approval rating, but dont think he will survive the backlash if he retreats/loses & Russia can descend into civil war for his succession. Europe has braved far worser conditions in WW1/2 & will survive the lack of heat as well.

Its not what Russia wanted but remember this surge has been planned by the Ukrainians for months. Russia decided to retreat from certain lands, in return killing thousands of Ukranians.

Im sure he wlll survive because Europeans are broke while Russians are living a better standard of life now than they ever have. Overall its food on the table which decides.

Europe is not in a direct war so dont assume they will starve for Ukrainians, they wont.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Why are the Russian bots peddling this myth that come 'october Europe will be freezing and in darkness' absolute lol.

Even Germany which is dependant on Russian gas says it can cope this winter

Yes which is why they are turning off lights and businesses are collapsing.

You really need to read various sources not what fits your own views.

 

[Technics 1210]

Why are the Russian bots peddling this myth that come 'october Europe will be freezing and in darkness' absolute lol.

Even Germany which is dependant on Russian gas says it can cope this winter

Bloomberg and FT are reporting this news.

And make no mistake, the freeze on energy bills is still up in the air, it is not confirmed.

 

[Technics 1210]

Oh evidence supporting my claim:

Europe Is Bracing for a Brutal, Cold Winter

European governments are scrambling to avert a full-scale energy crisis after Russia’s last-minute decision to halt gas deliveries through the key Nord Stream pipeline indefinitely. With a winter of unaffordable energy bills, rationing and blackouts looming, energy ministers meeting Friday will consider unorthodox measures to rein in soaring prices, ranging from gas-price caps to a temporary suspension of power derivatives trading, according to a draft document we’ve seen. The bill for governments is also mushrooming as they seek to keep energy providers solvent. Nordic authorities moved to bolster the liquidity of utilities struggling with collateral requirements, citing the risk of a Lehman-like moment in energy markets. In Germany, the government presented a 65 billion-euro package of support for households and companies, financed in part by tapping windfall profits generated by energy firms.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-09-05/europe-is-bracing-for-a-brutal-cold-winter

The above is from 4th September.

Now I wonder if NATO bots have any evidence supporting their myths?

 

[SalimBhai]

Russians standard of living is very low.

 

[SalimBhai]

Russians standard of living is very low.

Have travelled through Russia extensively over the years. You have Moscow and you have St Petersburg. Rest is almost and in some places third world

 

[KingKhanWC]

Oh evidence supporting my claim:

Europe Is Bracing for a Brutal, Cold Winter

European governments are scrambling to avert a full-scale energy crisis after Russia’s last-minute decision to halt gas deliveries through the key Nord Stream pipeline indefinitely. With a winter of unaffordable energy bills, rationing and blackouts looming, energy ministers meeting Friday will consider unorthodox measures to rein in soaring prices, ranging from gas-price caps to a temporary suspension of power derivatives trading, according to a draft document we’ve seen. The bill for governments is also mushrooming as they seek to keep energy providers solvent. Nordic authorities moved to bolster the liquidity of utilities struggling with collateral requirements, citing the risk of a Lehman-like moment in energy markets. In Germany, the government presented a 65 billion-euro package of support for households and companies, financed in part by tapping windfall profits generated by energy firms.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-09-05/europe-is-bracing-for-a-brutal-cold-winter

The above is from 4th September.

Now I wonder if NATO bots have any evidence supporting their myths?

Read this.

That Robert Habeck, Germany’s economy minister in his recent, pre-ministerial life, wrote a children’s book in which a girl called Emily experiences “how exciting a night-time power cut can be” may yet come back to haunt him.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...onomy-minister-keep-the-lights-on-this-winter

I think he knew , Brainwashing children into the future reality.

 

[Technics 1210]

Read this.



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...onomy-minister-keep-the-lights-on-this-winter

I think he knew , Brainwashing children into the future reality.

The ZMSM news cycle has changed, and poor NATO bots are just having to fil in the gaps by concocting news out of thin air.

Yes, Germany is fully aware of winter impact this year, this is why Germany, along with Italy, have called for easing of sanctions on Russia just so that they can keep warm this summer. I bet they wished for climate change now! No wait, Germany have now increased the burning of coal by up to 30% just to fill in the shortfall from Russian gas, clearly not enough, but perhaps enough to induce climate change!

 

[cpleigh]

Yes which is why they are turning off lights and businesses are collapsing.

You really need to read various sources not what fits your own views.

Businesses collapsing?... Er.... No. Just no.

The head of the Unions in Germany made that warning in July IF gas supplies failed.

They haven't, and won't.

 

[Robert]

Question now will be - Will Putin survive if Russia retreats from Ukraine?

I think he is in strife - he can’t look weak in front of his capos in the regions.

He’ll have to fully mobilise.

But then the fiction of the “special military operation“ will evaporate.

 

[cpleigh]

The ZMSM news cycle has changed, and poor NATO bots are just having to fil in the gaps by concocting news out of thin air.

Yes, Germany is fully aware of winter impact this year, this is why Germany, along with Italy, have called for easing of sanctions on Russia just so that they can keep warm this summer. I bet they wished for climate change now! No wait, Germany have now increased the burning of coal by up to 30% just to fill in the shortfall from Russian gas, clearly not enough, but perhaps enough to induce climate change!

You are making things up now. When did Germany call for sanctions to end?

Please .. link us up to a German gov official asking for that. Link us up to an Italian official.

 

[cpleigh]

I think he is in strife - he can’t look weak in front of his capos in the regions.

He’ll have to fully mobilise.

But then the fiction of the “special military operation“ will evaporate.

Apparently Russia has suspended all new recruits being deployed to ukraine

 

[KingKhanWC]

Businesses collapsing?... Er.... No. Just no.

The head of the Unions in Germany made that warning in July IF gas supplies failed.

They haven't, and won't.

Due to high prices of natural gas and electricity, German companies are switching to other energy sources, reducing output, but also shutting down production facilities, according to Economy Minister Robert Habeck.

https://balkangreenenergynews.com/german-firms-reduce-halt-production-over-high-energy-prices/

hese Are The UK Businesses Which Have Already Closed Due To The Cost Of Living Crisis
Other sectors – including schools – have issued bleak warnings about their future too

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...-of-living-crisis_uk_62fcfc01e4b0a85a8197c961

 

[cpleigh]

I work with German business a lot. Absolutely no issues with productivity, zilch. Everything has still arrived on time.

That report also says help is coming from the gov, u choose to ignore that, just like u have with the UK energy issue.

Ok another note... The only issues we have had is with Chinese suppliers who are on short time due to energy issues

 

[dildilpak]

Apparently Russia has suspended all new recruits being deployed to ukraine

Many of these recruits werent even from the Russian mainland - they apparently imported majority of their fighters from Chechnya/Dagestan. Mercenaries who clearly didnt have their heart in the battle.

 

[Technics 1210]

You are making things up now. When did Germany call for sanctions to end?

Please .. link us up to a German gov official asking for that. Link us up to an Italian official.

You got some front asking for evidence. And are you even reading? I said Germany asked for the sanctions to ease, not end.

https://on.ft.com/3ymIJak

Funny how you NATO bots don't have any evidence substantiating your lies, but demand others provide evidence. Typical.

 

[Technics 1210]

I work with German business a lot. Absolutely no issues with productivity, zilch. Everything has still arrived on time.

That report also says help is coming from the gov, u choose to ignore that, just like u have with the UK energy issue.

Ok another note... The only issues we have had is with Chinese suppliers who are on short time due to energy issues

Evidence, where is it?

 

[cpleigh]

Evidence, where is it?

Of?... Evidence of the fact Germany has shut down?

Just everyday life.

Not that you'll believe anything, I mean u ACTUALLY think the Russian economy is booming and Putin is winning

 

[SalimBhai]

I just got back from europe a week ago . Did go through Germany and stopped over in Berlin for a few days to see friends. Normal . Gasoline is a bit expensive. Electric bills are a bit expensive. But not like people on PP claim. Same with Spain. In Spain Gad was 1.87 a Litre. Usually is 1.44 for last few years But once you buy and go to the counter. You get a 12.5 percent discount. Paid by government. There will be some discomfort come winter in Europe. But the people are not that worried . People on PP claiming that people in Europe will die of cold amd people in russsiq will be eating caviar and dunking champagne are out of their minds. Russia is chit hole country to begin with other than two cities.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I work with German business a lot. Absolutely no issues with productivity, zilch. Everything has still arrived on time.

That report also says help is coming from the gov, u choose to ignore that, just like u have with the UK energy issue.

Ok another note... The only issues we have had is with Chinese suppliers who are on short time due to energy issues

We cant take your word for it due to much of what you've said in this thread being unable to prove.

Did you read the report, in UK businesses have already closed! They will get no help.

Are you ok with people in the UK suffering if it means arming and sending more Ukranians to their deaths?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Many of these recruits werent even from the Russian mainland - they apparently imported majority of their fighters from Chechnya/Dagestan. Mercenaries who clearly didnt have their heart in the battle.

Chechnya and Dagestan are part of the Russian federation. Its say on the Map.

You do realise Russia could wipe out Ukraine if it wanted to in a matter of a week.

Russia are only employing such tactics to save lives of Russian speakers in the East, their troops and property in the area. 4 or 5 powerful hypersonic missiles on Kiev will end this war.

 

[Technics 1210]

Of?... Evidence of the fact Germany has shut down?

Just everyday life.

Not that you'll believe anything, I mean u ACTUALLY think the Russian economy is booming and Putin is winning

Most of us still present evidence substantiating our claims, even if you don't believe it. It means we don't make up stuff and its actually based on something.

You on the other hand have zero evidence.

NATO should sack you as a bot.

 

[SalimBhai]

[MENTION=29741]KingKhan[/MENTION]. Honest question.
And why have they not used the hypersonic weapons. I know and using nuclear is a no no. I assume hypersonic are non nuclear. Why not use it to end the war and declare victory. At this PARTICULAR moment the Russians are getting embarrassed.

 

[Technics 1210]

From today, an MSM piece:

Soaring energy costs could threaten future of electric cars, experts warn.

Industry bosses in Germany say high costs are having an impact on vehicle production and sales.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...s-experts-warn?CMP=twt_a-environment_b-gdneco

 

[KingKhanWC]

[MENTION=29741]KingKhan[/MENTION]. Honest question.
And why have they not used the hypersonic weapons. I know and using nuclear is a no no. I assume hypersonic are non nuclear. Why not use it to end the war and declare victory. At this PARTICULAR moment the Russians are getting embarrassed.

Russia want a deal, its not in their interests to destroy Ukraine esp as it has a pipeline infrastructure going through from Russia to Europe. Remember Kiev used to be part of the Russian empire. They have historic links to the land.

But if it means losing the black sea, Crimea Russia will annihilate Ukraine.

Russians have retreated killing thousands of Ukrainians in a tactical move. This is the last big push by them, when it fails Europe will demand a peace deal. The only other scenario is the US start a war with China over Taiwan or if they use powerful western given missiles to hit Crimea, destroy it.

 

[SalimBhai]

Russia want a deal, its not in their interests to destroy Ukraine esp as it has a pipeline infrastructure going through from Russia to Europe. Remember Kiev used to be part of the Russian empire. They have historic links to the land.

But if it means losing the black sea, Crimea Russia will annihilate Ukraine.



Russians have retreated killing thousands of Ukrainians in a tactical move. This is the last big push by them, when it fails Europe will demand a peace deal. The only other scenario is the US start a war with China over Taiwan or if they use powerful western given missiles to hit Crimea, destroy it.

Sorry I don't understand why would USA start war with china. How do you relate that to Ukraine. HONEST QUESTION

 

[KingKhanWC]

Sorry I don't understand why would USA start war with china. How do you relate that to Ukraine. HONEST QUESTION

USA have been crying over China for decades, they are against the rise of China. As if the US have a right to dictate who is prosperous or not. lol. Taiwan is the biggest producer of the world's most advanced microchips. If China put a halt to this, US would within 24 hrs see a huge economic crash.

Russia and China have signed a military pact, both are attempting to end the dollar hegemony. Any war with China (wont happen yet) will cause a larger war between Russia and Europe.

 

[SalimBhai]

Ok I see what you are tying to say. But don't you think It also hurts china to go to war with the USA. China and USA are trading partners. Too much to lose. But USA was worried about the Microchip, hence Uncle Biden gave money for a factory somewhere here in the USA last week. Billions. But I don't think China and use will fight it out militarily. AT this Moment china can't go toe to toe with the USA militarily anyway. Not including Nukes.

 

[KingKhanWC]

From today, an MSM piece:

Soaring energy costs could threaten future of electric cars, experts warn.

Industry bosses in Germany say high costs are having an impact on vehicle production and sales.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...s-experts-warn?CMP=twt_a-environment_b-gdneco

This Putin chap is a genius!

His retaliation to this counter offensive is to hit Ukrainians electricity and energy in genral.

Eastern Ukraine suffers blackout, Kyiv blames Russia

‘Completely dark’
Al Jazeera’s Hoda Abdel Hamid reporting from Kharkiv said there are “power outages in five regions in the northeast and eastern part of the country. What we’re hearing from officials is that the Russians have hit critical infrastructure; they’re not telling us what or where, but this city is in pitch-black.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/11/ukraines-east-reports-blackouts-water-cuts-officials

Last reactor at Ukraine’s Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant shut down

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022...ukraines-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-plant-shut-down

This plant has been shut off, its produces 50-60% of Ukraines energy grid.

Once the lights are out, the missiles will rain down on the advancing troops too.

 

[Sidilicious]

Of?... Evidence of the fact Germany has shut down?

Just everyday life.

Not that you'll believe anything, I mean u ACTUALLY think the Russian economy is booming and Putin is winning

I‘ll given you evidence. I live in Germany. Things are fine. Yes, we will need to tighten our belt over the winter and put on an extra jumper as the cost of gas will rise in October. But we will be fine.
And any one who thinks that Russian standard or life has improved, they have no idea what they are talking about

 

[KingKhanWC]

I‘ll given you evidence. I live in Germany. Things are fine. Yes, we will need to tighten our belt over the winter and put on an extra jumper as the cost of gas will rise in October. But we will be fine.
And any one who thinks that Russian standard or life has improved, they have no idea what they are talking about

This is decline not fine. Im sure you can afford the rising bills but can those who are not as well off or companies which are closing?

 

[Manager101]

This may be off-topic but rise in tension at border of Armenia and Azerbaijan as artilleries fired.

https://news.am/eng/news/719780.html

 

[KingKhanWC]

 

[Junaids]

The questions by few kids here is not about "Why the bases exist" But they want to know the saviour of the world USA/NATO have bases/ military units present there or not.

Russia has invaded Estonia twice in the last 125 years.

Estonia is entitled to turn to whichever alliance it chooses to deter Russia from further Russian Imperialist aggression.

 

[Junaids]

This Putin chap is a genius!

His retaliation to this counter offensive is to hit Ukrainians electricity and energy in genral.



https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/11/ukraines-east-reports-blackouts-water-cuts-officials



https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022...ukraines-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-plant-shut-down

This plant has been shut off, its produces 50-60% of Ukraines energy grid.

Once the lights are out, the missiles will rain down on the advancing troops too.

Putin is not a genius, he’s a cretin.

He has launched a foolish war of Imperial Expansion. He has gained no territory whatsoever but has wiped out his own conventional armed forces.

He has also driven neutral neighbours into NATO and provoked economic sanctions which have ruined his economy.

He is an old-fashioned dictator who listens only to echo chambers, and he has destroyed his nation by his terrible decisions.

 

[Junaids]

View attachment 117074

Which meets the formal legal definition of a War Crime.

That is not strength. It is terrorism by a rogue state.

So was the purpose of your post to illustrate that Vladimir Putin is a War Criminal? We actually already knew that.

 

[Junaids]

This may be off-topic but rise in tension at border of Armenia and Azerbaijan as artilleries fired.

https://news.am/eng/news/719780.html

Inevitable.

Azerbaijan defeated Armenia last year, but Russia appointed itself as the peacekeeper sending troops to enforce the new lines of control.

Now that the Russian Army is deserting en masse and collapsing in a heap, the Moldovans, the Georgians and both sides in Nagorno-Karabakh are likely to seek to restore lost territory which has been under Russian military occupation.

 

[Junaids]

USA have been crying over China for decades, they are against the rise of China. As if the US have a right to dictate who is prosperous or not. lol. Taiwan is the biggest producer of the world's most advanced microchips. If China put a halt to this, US would within 24 hrs see a huge economic crash.

Russia and China have signed a military pact, both are attempting to end the dollar hegemony. Any war with China (wont happen yet) will cause a larger war between Russia and Europe.

France and the UK would wipe out Russia in less than an hour.

It would be like Australia playing Hong Kong in a cricket Test match.

 

[sweep_shot]

France and the UK would wipe out Russia in less than an hour.

It would be like Australia playing Hong Kong in a cricket Test match.

France? I don't think so.

Russia is too large. Russia is superior to France.

 

[Junaids]

[MENTION=29741]KingKhan[/MENTION]. Honest question.
And why have they not used the hypersonic weapons. I know and using nuclear is a no no. I assume hypersonic are non nuclear. Why not use it to end the war and declare victory. At this PARTICULAR moment the Russians are getting embarrassed.

I covered this ten pages ago. Russia doesn’t have proper hypersonic weapons. None!

The Kinzhal is a bog standard 1980’s technology ballistic missile, but with a useless guidance system. And Russia has fewer than five serviceable Kinzhal missiles left anyway due to a lack of microchips.

Russia’s purported hypersonic missiles are just flying dustbins.

 

[Junaids]

France? I don't think so.

Russia is too large. Russia is superior to France.

France has around 280-300 active nuclear warheads, delivered from nuclear submarines and aircraft.

Unlike Russia’s nuclear weapons they are properly maintained, have an accurate guidance system and use advanced technology both in terms of the missiles and the delivery systems.

Russia would be wiped out inside 30 minutes if they attacked France.

 

[Junaids]

France? I don't think so.

Russia is too large. Russia is superior to France.

Too large? Only on a map.

Russia’s economy is 45% smaller than France’s and 20% smaller than Canada’s.

Russia is just a minnow which happens to have lots of badly maintained obsolete nuclear weapons.

Ukraine used to have the same ex-Soviet nuclear weapons as Russia, but gave them up.

 

[Robert]

France? I don't think so.

Russia is too large. Russia is superior to France.

Ok have a read about France’s nuclear deterrent. It is comparable to that of the UK. Either country could erase Moscow, St Petersburg, Volgograd and the next five biggest cities from the map. That would represent Russia-ending damage. But by then, the whole Northern hemisphere of the planet would be obliterated, causing cataclysmic environmental damage to the whole world.

 

[Robert]

Too large? Only on a map.

Russia’s economy is 45% smaller than France’s and 20% smaller than Canada’s.

Russia is just a minnow which happens to have lots of badly maintained obsolete nuclear weapons.

Ukraine used to have the same ex-Soviet nuclear weapons as Russia, but gave them up.

Given the lack of serviceability of basic items like trucks, one wonders how many Russian ICBMs would fly and if so whether the warheads would actually detonate. Their entire military has suffered serious loss of credibility.

 

[bones]

France and the UK would wipe out Russia in less than an hour.

It would be like Australia playing Hong Kong in a cricket Test match.

With just 200k soldiers Russia have been able to take a territory larger than England and Wales. Up until 48 hours ago they did this by not hitting civilian infrastructure. Bear in mind the main Russian army only constitutes 25-40% of this 200k, the rest is DPR, LNR, Wagner and Chechen forces.

France stands no chance and the UK even less because of the size of the army.

 

[Junaids]

So former Russian President Medvedev has today said that Russia’s precondition for peace is “total capitulation of the Kyiv regime on Russia’s terms.”

The Russian government clearly is not seeing that the war is lost. Or is trying to mislead the public into thinking that Russia is still in a position to dictate terms to the army that is routing it.

 

[bones]

He has launched a foolish war of Imperial Expansion. He has gained no territory whatsoever but has wiped out his own conventional armed forces.

He has also driven neutral neighbours into NATO and provoked economic sanctions which have ruined his economy.

He is an old-fashioned dictator who listens only to echo chambers, and he has destroyed his nation by his terrible decisions.

For a middle aged man you do type a lot more like a teenager.

This is not a war. If it were a war those lights, railroad, internet, water systems would have been out of commission in February. Russia tried diplomacy but when they realised the Minsk accords were a delaying tactic, confirmed now by poroshenko what choice did they have?

Tell us junaids - how would you have stopped the oppressive behaviour towards ethnic Russians in east/south Ukraine?

You say he’s gained no territory, well I’m looking at western maps and I see he controls most of the mod important Ukrainian land. If you think otherwise then show us your source which has no red over Ukrainian territory.

Putin wins elections with 53 or 56% votes, not exactly a dictatorship is it?

 

[Junaids]

With just 200k soldiers Russia have been able to take a territory larger than England and Wales. Up until 48 hours ago they did this by not hitting civilian infrastructure. Bear in mind the main Russian army only constitutes 25-40% of this 200k, the rest is DPR, LNR, Wagner and Chechen forces.

France stands no chance and the UK even less because of the size of the army.

Where would this imaginary battle take place? Russia has no ability to transport soldiers anywhere, and when they sent their crumbling aircraft carrier to Australia for the 2014 G20 summit in Brisbane they had to send two huge tugs because it almost always breaks down when it leaves port.

Nuclear or non-nuclear, the UK or France would wipe out Russia in less than an hour with pinpoint missile strikes.

Putin is still fighting World War 2 and thought he could beat Ukraine in 3 days.

A modern advanced country would defeat Russia in less than an hour.

Ukraine has been given 0.5% of America’s oldest weapons and is winning with that!

 

[Junaids]

For a middle aged man you do type a lot more like a teenager.

This is not a war. If it were a war those lights, railroad, internet, water systems would have been out of commission in February. Russia tried diplomacy but when they realised the Minsk accords were a delaying tactic, confirmed now by poroshenko what choice did they have?

Tell us junaids - how would you have stopped the oppressive behaviour towards ethnic Russians in east/south Ukraine?

You say he’s gained no territory, well I’m looking at western maps and I see he controls most of the mod important Ukrainian land. If you think otherwise then show us your source which has no red over Ukrainian territory.

Putin wins elections with 53 or 56% votes, not exactly a dictatorship is it?

Of course it’s a dictatorship.

The Russian opposition are all dead or in prison and the media is a propaganda tool.

Russia is a sham democracy - there is nothing democratic about it at all.

 

[bones]

So former Russian President Medvedev has today said that Russia’s precondition for peace is “total capitulation of the Kyiv regime on Russia’s terms.”

The Russian government clearly is not seeing that the war is lost. Or is trying to mislead the public into thinking that Russia is still in a position to dictate terms to the army that is routing it.

Ukraine won one battle. In fact it wasn’t even a battle because the Russians decided to withdraw and save their men. Unlike the west who are prepared to send Ukrainians to die needlessly under artillery bombardment.

Regardless this is one battle, the end result is going to be a Russian win. Im very confident of this as I have been from day one because Russian are winning despite such a small deployed army and fighting with one arm tied they have destroyed huge numbers of Ukrainian fortified positions and forces.

 

[bones]

Of course it’s a dictatorship.

The Russian opposition are all dead or in prison and the media is a propaganda tool.

Russia is a sham democracy - there is nothing democratic about it at all.

Tell me, what has Zelensky done with the opposition in Ukraine?

Also provide sources to back your claim he is a dictator.

 

[Junaids]

For a middle aged man you do type a lot more like a teenager.

This is not a war. If it were a war those lights, railroad, internet, water systems would have been out of commission in February. Russia tried diplomacy but when they realised the Minsk accords were a delaying tactic, confirmed now by poroshenko what choice did they have?

Tell us junaids - how would you have stopped the oppressive behaviour towards ethnic Russians in east/south Ukraine?

You say he’s gained no territory, well I’m looking at western maps and I see he controls most of the mod important Ukrainian land. If you think otherwise then show us your source which has no red over Ukrainian territory.

Putin wins elections with 53 or 56% votes, not exactly a dictatorship is it?

There was no oppression of Russians in Donbas - you are swallowing absurd propaganda fairy tales.

There is nothing to negotiate a diplomatic end too - an evil dictatorship has invaded a peaceful democracy and committed widespread war crimes. The only people who want a negotiated settlement are the Russians and gas-addicted European cowards like Orban and Scholz.

And you know as well as I do that Putin shows a little restraint with war crimes like wiping out electricity and water for civilians only because he knows that there are red lines which would provoke the USA to send Ukraine longer-range missiles.

And as soon as the USA does that, Russia instantly loses Ukraine, Transnistria and South Ossetia, Putin gets killed and the Russian Empire is finally decolonized.

 

[bones]

Given the lack of serviceability of basic items like trucks, one wonders how many Russian ICBMs would fly and if so whether the warheads would actually detonate. Their entire military has suffered serious loss of credibility.

I thought you were somewhat more sensible with your views but I guess I was wrong.

I keep reminding you that any military man with credibility will tell you that Russia who are fighting with such a small army of 200k, are doing very well against an army supplied by the entire NATO alliance and 600k + forces.

In the end the military conflict will be won by Russia, these battles that they are not fighting such as the withdrawal on the Izyum/Kharkiv front allows them to resupply and fight again.

The real war is the economic war and if you want to know who is winning that just look at European bills. Putin has Germany by the balls and most of Europe is going to have a long, cold and very dangerous winter.

 

[bones]

There was no oppression of Russians in Donbas - you are swallowing absurd propaganda fairy tales.

There is nothing to negotiate a diplomatic end too - an evil dictatorship has invaded a peaceful democracy and committed widespread war crimes. The only people who want a negotiated settlement are the Russians and gas-addicted European cowards like Orban and Scholz.

And you know as well as I do that Putin shows a little restraint with war crimes like wiping out electricity and water for civilians only because he knows that there are red lines which would provoke the USA to send Ukraine longer-range missiles.

And as soon as the USA does that, Russia instantly loses Ukraine, Transnistria and South Ossetia, Putin gets killed and the Russian Empire is finally decolonized.

BBC and your beloved MSM were covering the oppression plenty of coverage. You may choose to ignore and lie about it but that says more about you.

All conflicts either end with diplomacy or capitulation(surrender). It seems like American doesn’t want diplomacy so capitulation it will be.

I have a strong feeling the European civilians who are going to a long, cold and expensive winter will decide the outcome more than you know. The average German or French citizen is not going to want to supply Ukraine with weapons when they can’t go to work or heat their home. The average Russian won’t go cold anytime soon.

You keep talking about the mighty American army likes it's the great saviour. This American army l we gt Afghanistan with their heads between their legs and let's not even discuss Vietnam.

 

[Robert]

Of course it’s a dictatorship.

The Russian opposition are all dead or in prison and the media is a propaganda tool.

Russia is a sham democracy - there is nothing democratic about it at all.

True. All journalists who asked awkward questions were murdered. The elections are rigged. In the last election the opposition leader was under house arrest and not allowed to campaign.

Gobsmacking that [MENTION=135003]bones[/MENTION] doesn’t understand this.

 

[Junaids]

I thought you were somewhat more sensible with your views but I guess I was wrong.

I keep reminding you that any military man with credibility will tell you that Russia who are fighting with such a small army of 200k, are doing very well against an army supplied by the entire NATO alliance and 600k + forces.

In the end the military conflict will be won by Russia, these battles that they are not fighting such as the withdrawal on the Izyum/Kharkiv front allows them to resupply and fight again.

The real war is the economic war and if you want to know who is winning that just look at European bills. Putin has Germany by the balls and most of Europe is going to have a long, cold and very dangerous winter.

The Russians can’t fight. They have exactly the same problem they have always had except in WW2 when the UK and USA kept Germany occupied on the western front.

The Russian Army is badly trained.

The Russian Army is badly led.

The Russian Army has obsolete weapons (as, to be fair, do the Ukrainians).

The Russian Army has terrible logistics.

The Russian Army troops (including Donbas proxies) are exhausted and unmotivated.

This is why Russia always loses to everyone - whether it’s Japan or Poland or Austria or Ukraine.

They can beat minnows like Georgia or Moldova. But put them up against a motivated, trained, organised Army and it’s just a matter of time before they desert or surrender.

It’s what Russia always does.

 

[bones]

The Russians can’t fight. They have exactly the same problem they have always had except in WW2 when the UK and USA kept Germany occupied on the western front.

The Russian Army is badly trained.

The Russian Army is badly led.

The Russian Army has obsolete weapons (as, to be fair, do the Ukrainians).

The Russian Army has terrible logistics.

The Russian Army troops (including Donbas proxies) are exhausted and unmotivated.

This is why Russia always loses to everyone - whether it’s Japan or Poland or Austria or Ukraine.

They can beat minnows like Georgia or Moldova. But put them up against a motivated, trained, organised Army and it’s just a matter of time before they desert or surrender.

It’s what Russia always does.

I'm looking at western maps. Right now I see Russia with 200k forces have captured everything to the east of the Dnieper on the the southern coast. For a badly trained, badly led, badly equipped, low morale, poor logistics and history of failures - the Russians are doing ok.

Imagine if the Russians didn't have the issues you've highlighted - just imagine how much more damage they could inflict and how much more territory they could capture.

 

[Junaids]

Putin reportedly moved to his self-owned palace outside Sochi when his first general told him two days ago that the war is lost.

(The Palace a man who has never earned more than $200,000 per year built with $3 billion of his own savings).

One missile strike could end this now, without worrying about winter heating bills. It won’t happen, but it should.

(And yes, it is perfectly legal to kill a man whose country unlawfully invaded and occupied another).

 

[Manager101]

Putin reportedly moved to his self-owned palace outside Sochi when his first general told him two days ago that the war is lost.

(The Palace a man who has never earned more than $200,000 per year built with $3 billion of his own savings).

One missile strike could end this now, without worrying about winter heating bills. It won’t happen, but it should.

(And yes, it is perfectly legal to kill a man whose country unlawfully invaded and occupied another).

Please provide weblink of this "report".

 

[Junaids]

Tell me, what has Zelensky done with the opposition in Ukraine?

Also provide sources to back your claim he is a dictator.

He defeated Poroschnko who had a Ukranian nationalist manifesto.

Ukraine is a democracy.

 

[bones]

Please provide weblink of this "report".

Probably the same sources who told us Putin and Shoigu were on death's door.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/vladimir-putins-uncontrollable-shaking-evidence-27243496

 

[Sidilicious]

I

This is decline not fine. Im sure you can afford the rising bills but can those who are not as well off or companies which are closing?

The extent of support given to firms in Germany is much higher than the UK. We also have not had the rise in gas and electricity prices as the UK had last year.

Again, Most people in Germany would be fine. Some will struggle but the govt support here is extensive.

Simply put, most Germans are prepared to have one difficult winter in order to ensure the victory against Putin.

One thing is clear, this is not a long run thing. The problems are effectively for this winter. And the question is who will blink first. Russian economy will not survive without European gas revenue for more than a winter.

 

[cpleigh]

I thought you were somewhat more sensible with your views but I guess I was wrong.

I keep reminding you that any military man with credibility will tell you that Russia who are fighting with such a small army of 200k, are doing very well against an army supplied by the entire NATO alliance and 600k + forces.

In the end the military conflict will be won by Russia, these battles that they are not fighting such as the withdrawal on the Izyum/Kharkiv front allows them to resupply and fight again.

The real war is the economic war and if you want to know who is winning that just look at European bills. Putin has Germany by the balls and most of Europe is going to have a long, cold and very dangerous winter.

Utter... Utter rubbish. Speaking of Russias Economy.... they are now losing money

https://www.ft.com/content/d9cdc51f-5fe3-4f4a-b0e8-054ef21a2a6e

 

[cpleigh]

Ukraine won one battle. In fact it wasn’t even a battle because the Russians decided to withdraw and save their men. Unlike the west who are prepared to send Ukrainians to die needlessly under artillery bombardment.

Regardless this is one battle, the end result is going to be a Russian win. Im very confident of this as I have been from day one because Russian are winning despite such a small deployed army and fighting with one arm tied they have destroyed huge numbers of Ukrainian fortified positions and forces.

ha ha ha ha ha hah I mean do you honestly believe that rubbish? They decided to 'withdraw' whilst leaving behind $$$ millions of equipment.

You are becoming a parody.

1 battle... just amazing

 

[bones]

Utter... Utter rubbish. Speaking of Russias Economy.... they are now losing money

https://www.ft.com/content/d9cdc51f-5fe3-4f4a-b0e8-054ef21a2a6e

I think you miss the main point - Russia might not be doing as well they would like, but Europe are doing a lot worse.

As for what I'm saying being rubbish, look at this pro Ukrainian map. I see a lot of red in Ukrainian territory.... If the Russians are losing - why is such a big area still red? Explain that one to me.

https://liveuamap.com

 

[bones]

ha ha ha ha ha hah I mean do you honestly believe that rubbish? They decided to 'withdraw' whilst leaving behind $$$ millions of equipment.

You are becoming a parody.

1 battle... just amazing

Do I believe they withdrew? Of course I do, where is your evidence of these massive battles? The reason the Ukrainians captured so much territory so quickly is because there was no one to fight.

The Russians left behind a lot of equipment - but as the Russian commanders said they could not move all of that equipment in such a short time. So they decided to leave it behind. Makes total sense, they did the same in Feb/March if you recall. How many Ukranian tractors were seen towing left behind equipment? Plenty.

So we have examples in this very same conflict which back what I say and once again make you look foolish.

I remind you - look at this pro Ukranian map. A lot of red in Ukranian territory, this despite only a paltry 200k Russian army fighting a huge Ukranian army supplied by the collective NATO armory and intel.

https://liveuamap.com

 

[Sidilicious]

I think you miss the main point - Russia might not be doing as well they would like, but Europe are doing a lot worse.

As for what I'm saying being rubbish, look at this pro Ukrainian map. I see a lot of red in Ukrainian territory.... If the Russians are losing - why is such a big area still red? Explain that one to me.

https://liveuamap.com

Europe is NOT doing a lot worse. Most countries do not depend on Russian gas. Germans and a couple of other countries do. A reduction in gas usage this winter along with increasing renewables (and some coal and nuclear) along with higher fuel prices, will allow us to manage this winter. It’s going to be a little difficult, but Europe is preparing to overcome.

Put it simply, if Europe learns to manage without Russian gas this winter, Russia could lose a significant chunk of revenue from gas in the long run.

In short, Europe are not doing a lot worse. In fact, things haven’t changed that much till now. They will get more difficult, but the Germans are prepared.

 

[cpleigh]

Who says europe's doing worse? You? The Russian Economy shrank nearly 5% last month, thats BEFORE the real issues for them start like the EU not buying their energy. The is from a Russian in Moscow on another forum i visit

The main hit was taken by small businesses & entertainment industry. Plus there's a huge rise of unemployment in regions after the exodus of big international companies that had their production factories in Russia. Inflation grows quite quickly. The quality of products (from food to literally everything else) has dropped significantly. The whole economy is more or less isolated from the outside which allows Russia to retain a very favorable ruble price but they're not doing it by improving its value, they're doing it by restricting its trade.

The biggest issue is mid-to-long term effects on a more complicated production cycles. Every complicated machinery needs a steady supply of new details to keep up functioning and this supply is limited to say the least. The aviation have taken the hit earlier due to how closed off the market for those details are (and how important it is to prevent anything from happening — in other production you can risk it a bit more) — they are tearing down some planes to get details for other planes and this is not a sustainable strategy.

Plus Russia still gets an enormous amount of money from the export of energy sources which it uses to cover the ever-growing cracks in its economy but that input of cash is going to dry up pretty soon.

Here's a decent read that is still more or less readable if you translate it from Russian via google:
https://meduza.io/feature/2022/09/0...skuyu-ekonomiku-no-etogo-ne-sluchilos-pochemu

 

[Robert]

Europe is NOT doing a lot worse. Most countries do not depend on Russian gas. Germans and a couple of other countries do. A reduction in gas usage this winter along with increasing renewables (and some coal and nuclear) along with higher fuel prices, will allow us to manage this winter. It’s going to be a little difficult, but Europe is preparing to overcome.

Put it simply, if Europe learns to manage without Russian gas this winter, Russia could lose a significant chunk of revenue from gas in the long run.

In short, Europe are not doing a lot worse. In fact, things haven’t changed that much till now. They will get more difficult, but the Germans are prepared.

This is not about hurting Russia.

It's about helping Ukraine defend themselves from the despot Putin.

If Putin falls as a result, and Russia becomes a democracy again, all to the good.

 

[bones]

This is not about hurting Russia.

It's about helping Ukraine defend themselves from the despot Putin.

If Putin falls as a result, and Russia becomes a democracy again, all to the good.

Not according to Lloyd Austin. According to him it is about "weakening Russia".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...-austin-is-right-russia-weakened-ukraine-war/