Sachin Tendulkar vs AB de Villiers - The overall complete batsman?

[Mobashir]

Top post.


In your face all he kiddies out there who know nothing about the legends of 90s.

If you want to limit everything to the 90's then rate LAra as a better ODI batsman than Tendulkar!

 

[sivaji]

What is Sachin's highest ranking points.

 

[Thivagar]

Both of them are good son-in-law material for arranged marriage.

 

[ChachaCricket]

Well you cannot hit 100 off 50 as an opener because openers are expected to put a bigger price on their wickets. Let AB do it by moving up the order. AB will not be able to play this kind of innings batting at #1-3. AB can do this when walking into bat on a solid platform like 2/200, and not as an opener walking in a 0/0. You are basically comparing apples and oranges here. Opener's role in the team and #4,5 roles are different.

Had Sachin batted at 4-5, his SR would in the low 80s.

I never compared their roles to begin with. Just their explosive ability and Sachin is nowhere near AB. The latter is the most dynamic player we've ever seen. Can only be compared to Viv.

 

[Slog]

ABD is great, Tendulkar is GREATER.

/thread.

No thread is alive and the question is valid

Don't be an insecure Sachinista

 

[sivaji]

AB' all tons were scored at better than a ball. Only twice he needed more than100 balls to score a hundred and then he upped his SR. He plays the least number of dot balls. Nobody milks ones and two with such ease. He is not about hitting sixes only.

 

[IndianWillow]

Had Sachin batted at 4-5, his SR would in the low 80s.

I never compared their roles to begin with. Just their explosive ability and Sachin is nowhere near AB. The latter is the most dynamic player we've ever seen. Can only be compared to Viv.

Sachin used to as explosive as AB by the standards of the 90s. Just take a look at AB's most destructive knocks (ordered by S/R) to date, and check out who the opponents were, and at what score he walked into bat?

Most destructive AB big knocks:

149 (59) vs WI walking into bat at 1/247
162 (66) vs WI walking into bat at 3/146
119 (61) vs Ind walking into bat at 2/187
102 (59) vs Ind walking into bat at 2/192
108 (71) vs SL walking into bat at 2/132
104 (73) vs Ind walking into bat at 2/104
121 (85) vs Eng walking into bat at 1/107

AB generally needs a very strong platform to make these kind of scores, and he generally does it against weak bowling teams like India and WI. Sachin at his peak and AB are quite similar, AB's superlative innings are made possible by strong platforms he get and the modern rules and playing conditions. Sachin at his peak was capable of them too. I have seen Viv bat and Viv was at a different level for his era (can you imagine either Sachin or AB making a daddy hundred batting with #11 batsman at 9/166?) - ahead of both Sachin and AB.

 

[ChachaCricket]

Sachin used to as explosive as AB by the standards of the 90s. Just take a look at AB's most destructive knocks (ordered by S/R) to date, and check out who the opponents were, and at what score he walked into bat?

Most destructive AB big knocks:

149 (59) vs WI walking into bat at 1/247
162 (66) vs WI walking into bat at 3/146
119 (61) vs Ind walking into bat at 2/187
102 (59) vs Ind walking into bat at 2/192
108 (71) vs SL walking into bat at 2/132
104 (73) vs Ind walking into bat at 2/104
121 (85) vs Eng walking into bat at 1/107

AB generally needs a very strong platform to make these kind of scores, and he generally does it against weak bowling teams like India and WI. Sachin at his peak and AB are quite similar, AB's superlative innings are made possible by strong platforms he get and the modern rules and playing conditions. Sachin at his peak was capable of them too. I have seen Viv bat and Viv was at a different level for his era (can you imagine either Sachin or AB making a daddy hundred batting with #11 batsman at 9/166?) - ahead of both Sachin and AB.

AB can play these type of knocks against any team but obviously isn't presented with these platforms against better attacks. Take for example his knocks against Australia in Zimbabwe where he chased down 328 followed by 57* in the final. He literally butchered their attack which had Johnson and Starc.

I did not put Viv ahead of AB. Neither did I put AB ahead of Sachin. I compared their explosive ability. Sachin was a stroke player hence thrived in the initial powerplay and then slowed down when the field spread due to lack of a power game. In this regard only AB and Viv are comparable and I agree Viv would be more destructive than AB in this era.

 

[tempus123]

You can say Aravinda and Arjuna helped SL win the WC. Or Smith helped Aus win the WC. Sachin hasn't helped India win a WC. Just getting to the final doesn't help the team win a WC. To win a WC you obviously have to win the WC final. And to help win the final you need to perform in the final.

A ridiculous post as always.

 

[Ab Fan]

Sachin was an aggressive opening batsmen but he would dominate the bowlers with his class, innovation and by finding gaps..AB can do that with class, innovation and power also.This is where AB edges out Sachin.AB is the most destructive batsmen of his era which Sachin wasn't.Both have been consistent throughout their career and both are known for their resemblance in not being so good in finishing off a great chase.Overall, if AB can maintain the consistency till 35-36 he will surpass Sachin as he wins over him in terms of destroying the bowling attack..

 

[IndianWillow]

AB can play these type of knocks against any team but obviously isn't presented with these platforms against better attacks. Take for example his knocks against Australia in Zimbabwe where he chased down 328 followed by 57* in the final. He literally butchered their attack which had Johnson and Starc.

I did not put Viv ahead of AB. Neither did I put AB ahead of Sachin. I compared their explosive ability. Sachin was a stroke player hence thrived in the initial powerplay and then slowed down when the field spread due to lack of a power game. In this regard only AB and Viv are comparable and I agree Viv would be more destructive than AB in this era.

I chose those hundreds because they were better examples of typical AB knocks for which he has become famous. Sachin routinely used to destroy bowling attacks in the 90s and used to make run a ball fifties and hundreds for fun - he made 33 fifties/hundreds at over run a ball during the 90s - which were tall standards for that era. Sachin did not make these 2 run a ball scores like AB because those were inconceivable for his era.

If Sachin of the 90s were to play today, he would be capable of making AB like scores. It is no secret that since the late 2000s scoring rates among top batsmen in the ODIs have improved alarmingly. Many top ODI batsmen of the late 90s and early-mid 00s who were scoring with a S/R of 70-75 suddenly started scoring at a strike rate of 85-90 after 2008 or so - so there is conclusive evidence that making runs at a higher strike rate is easier in the modern era. Nobody is scoring the way AB does, so that is proof that he is the best modern ODI batsman. But just because AB is making runs faster than Sachin does not prove that he is more explosive than Sachin of the 90s.

Sachin was far ahead of other openers of his era, and AB is far ahead of other batsmen of his era. But we cannot compare their stats one on one because they are separated in time, their batting positions, roles in the team etc.

 

[Adijazz1706]

In the 90's, Lara was quite a bit better than Sachin (especially outside Asia). Just sayin'

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I chose those hundreds because they were better examples of typical AB knocks for which he has become famous. Sachin routinely used to destroy bowling attacks in the 90s and used to make run a ball fifties and hundreds for fun - he made 33 fifties/hundreds at over run a ball during the 90s - which were tall standards for that era. Sachin did not make these 2 run a ball scores like AB because those were inconceivable for his era.

If Sachin of the 90s were to play today, he would be capable of making AB like scores. It is no secret that since the late 2000s scoring rates among top batsmen in the ODIs have improved alarmingly. Many top ODI batsmen of the late 90s and early-mid 00s who were scoring with a S/R of 70-75 suddenly started scoring at a strike rate of 85-90 after 2008 or so - so there is conclusive evidence that making runs at a higher strike rate is easier in the modern era. Nobody is scoring the way AB does, so that is proof that he is the best modern ODI batsman. But just because AB is making runs faster than Sachin does not prove that he is more explosive than Sachin of the 90s.

Sachin was far ahead of other openers of his era, and AB is far ahead of other batsmen of his era. But we cannot compare their stats one on one because they are separated in time, their batting positions, roles in the team etc.

You make great points and I agree with many but watching both...I do feel ABD is defo better in brute slogging power. The gears he has is crazy. Don't think Sachin is that great in pure slogging.

Its like knowing Glenn McGrath and Akram are better than Steyn in ODIs inspite of Steyn bowling with disadvantages in this era. You just know watching them (however in tests Steyn has claims to be greater than them).

 

[ChachaCricket]

I chose those hundreds because they were better examples of typical AB knocks for which he has become famous. Sachin routinely used to destroy bowling attacks in the 90s and used to make run a ball fifties and hundreds for fun - he made 33 fifties/hundreds at over run a ball during the 90s - which were tall standards for that era. Sachin did not make these 2 run a ball scores like AB because those were inconceivable for his era.

If Sachin of the 90s were to play today, he would be capable of making AB like scores. It is no secret that since the late 2000s scoring rates among top batsmen in the ODIs have improved alarmingly. Many top ODI batsmen of the late 90s and early-mid 00s who were scoring with a S/R of 70-75 suddenly started scoring at a strike rate of 85-90 after 2008 or so - so there is conclusive evidence that making runs at a higher strike rate is easier in the modern era. Nobody is scoring the way AB does, so that is proof that he is the best modern ODI batsman. But just because AB is making runs faster than Sachin does not prove that he is more explosive than Sachin of the 90s.

Sachin was far ahead of other openers of his era, and AB is far ahead of other batsmen of his era. But we cannot compare their stats one on one because they are separated in time, their batting positions, roles in the team etc.

I've already explained why Sachin would not be able to do so. There is no point in repeating the same points. Sachin never had the power game of AB and Viv. He was a stroke player hence thrived as an opener. His SR might improve a bit but would still not be able to score 50 ball hundreds forget a 31 ball hundred against any team.

 

[Ab Fan]

In the 90's, Lara was quite a bit better than Sachin (especially outside Asia). Just sayin'

Yes true...Nothing wrong in that but winning a test series outside Asia matters more than bilateral odis..But still Sachin wasn't that good outside Asia in 90s and all his great knocks in odis (96 WC, desert Storm, 186 vs NZ etc) in 90s came in Asia only..But he did well post 2000 and Overall is a success there also..

 

[sivaji]

I chose those hundreds because they were better examples of typical AB knocks for which he has become famous. Sachin routinely used to destroy bowling attacks in the 90s and used to make run a ball fifties and hundreds for fun - he made 33 fifties/hundreds at over run a ball during the 90s - which were tall standards for that era. Sachin did not make these 2 run a ball scores like AB because those were inconceivable for his era.

If Sachin of the 90s were to play today, he would be capable of making AB like scores. It is no secret that since the late 2000s scoring rates among top batsmen in the ODIs have improved alarmingly. Many top ODI batsmen of the late 90s and early-mid 00s who were scoring with a S/R of 70-75 suddenly started scoring at a strike rate of 85-90 after 2008 or so - so there is conclusive evidence that making runs at a higher strike rate is easier in the modern era. Nobody is scoring the way AB does, so that is proof that he is the best modern ODI batsman. But just because AB is making runs faster than Sachin does not prove that he is more explosive than Sachin of the 90s.

Sachin was far ahead of other openers of his era, and AB is far ahead of other batsmen of his era. But we cannot compare their stats one on one because they are separated in time, their batting positions, roles in the team etc.

Sachin wasn't capable of making these ridiculous hundreds like AB scores. He has at never in his career shown that he could score at the SR of 200. The fact is AB is more talented and he tends to play a lot more shots. Sachin wasn't capable of playing the slog sweep to a fast bowler. He didn't reverse sweep or anything. He played a lot more dot balls compared to AB.

What sets AB ahead of Sachin is his ability to steal ones and twos and getting runs almost off every ball. He does not only have an SR of over 100 but also averages 54 playing these ridiculous shots. You know when you are down the order and trying to hit almost all balls for sixes, you are going to fail many times but AB has been doing it almost all the time. It's his consistency along with his SR that sets him apart.
If AB can't prove he is more explosive by scoring runs faster than Sachin, how else can he prove it? by scoring slower? AB has scored 4 hundreds facing less than 60 balls. We are not talking about one innings. He has consistency to show for along with his explosiveness.

Also SA middle order is so weak. Miller and Duminy rarely make runs. I can't remember when these two ever made runs for SA or played a significant innings that gave SA the momentum or the win. AB is the last recognized good batsman in the team therefore going to bat at 2 down for 100 runs is not really a platform. If he gets out, his team would fall like a pack of cards. Sachin opened the innings so he could play with a bit more freedom, knowing the rest would do repair job incase he gets out early.

 

[sivaji]

Even in the last ODI against India, AB went to bat at something like 200-2 but imagine he gets out highway and then Miller and Behardien in the crease. They did nothing in this tour and to be fair for a long time and the chances are they would have been in the pavilion soon and SA would be like 250-7 and fold for under 300. Then people would be like how AB couldn't perform in the decider. The same thing was raised in the one of the matches in the series when AB came to bat with a good score but he got out and the team folded and everyone was like hahaha told you he didn't score runs.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Some crazy arguments about Lara vs SRT in 90s ODI going on.

That's cos outside Asia INCLUDES Lara's home (WI too).

In 90s (outside Asia - away from home and nuetral venues)

Lara - 38 avg with 76 SR
SRT - 40 avg with 82 SR

In 90s (outside Asia - away from home ONLY)

Lara - 38 avg with 74 SR
SRT - 35 avg with 79 SR

In 90s with Tournaments (3 teams PLUS - non bilaterals)

Lara - 41 avg with 79 SR
SRT - 48 avg with 86 SR

In 90s WORLD CUPS

Lara - 42 avg with 86 SR
SRT - 56 avg with 88 SR

All this includes whole 90s even though SRT came into force only after 1994 when opening (but the stats are full stats and not just opener stats which would be EVEN better).

 

[sivaji]

Some crazy arguments about Lara vs SRT in 90s ODI going on.

That's cos outside Asia INCLUDES Lara's home (WI too).

In 90s (outside Asia - away from home and nuetral venues)

Lara - 38 avg with 76 SR
SRT - 40 avg with 82 SR

In 90s (outside Asia - away from home ONLY)

Lara - 38 avg with 74 SR
SRT - 35 avg with 79 SR

In 90s with Tournaments (3 teams PLUS - non bilaterals)

Lara - 41 avg with 79 SR
SRT - 48 avg with 86 SR

In 90s WORLD CUPS

Lara - 42 avg with 86 SR
SRT - 56 avg with 86 SR

All this includes whole 90s even though SRT came into force only after 1994 when opening (but the stats are full stats and not just opener stats which would be EVEN better).

I think people are talking about the period when Lara was opening and was ranked no 1 batsman. If you see the rankings points for all batsmen, Lara has achieved 900 in ODIs while Sachin did not.. Maybe wrong but Lara was damn good as an opener and then shifted down for no reason.

 

[Ab Fan]

Some crazy arguments about Lara vs SRT in 90s ODI going on.

That's cos outside Asia INCLUDES Lara's home (WI too).

In 90s (outside Asia - away from home and nuetral venues)

Lara - 38 avg with 76 SR
SRT - 40 avg with 82 SR

In 90s (outside Asia - away from home ONLY)

Lara - 38 avg with 74 SR
SRT - 35 avg with 79 SR

In 90s with Tournaments (3 teams PLUS - non bilaterals)

Lara - 41 avg with 79 SR
SRT - 48 avg with 86 SR

In 90s WORLD CUPS

Lara - 42 avg with 86 SR
SRT - 56 avg with 88 SR

All this includes whole 90s even though SRT came into force only after 1994 when opening (but the stats are full stats and not just opener stats which would be EVEN better).

Exclude minnows and then the difference will be seen..

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I think people are talking about the period when Lara was opening and was ranked no 1 batsman. If you see the rankings points for all batsmen, Lara has achieved 900 in ODIs while Sachin did not.. Maybe wrong but Lara was damn good as an opener and then shifted down for no reason.

People are talking about 90s in general (and not openers).

Even as openers too, SRT comes out ahead.

 

[SL_Fan]

A ridiculous post as always.

Means a lot coming from you. Mr QF/SF is equal to a final LOL.

 

[sivaji]

People are talking about 90s in general (and not openers).

Even as openers too, SRT comes out ahead.

When people say Lara in 90s, they just refer to that period. He was no 1 batsman with over 900 points. Sachin has never crossed 900 points.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Exclude minnows and then the difference will be seen..

Non - minnow:

In 90s (outside Asia - away from home and nuetral venues)

Lara - Avg 38 with 70 SR
SRT - Avg 35 with 78 SR

Even stevens.

In 90s (outside Asia - away from home ONLY)

Lara - Avg of 44 with 69 SR
SRT - Avg of 29 with 78 SR

Lara CRUSHES Sachin.

In 90s with Tournaments (3 teams PLUS - non bilaterals)

Lara - Avg of 40 with 75 SR
SRT - Avg of 46 with 87 SR

SRT beats Lara with ease.

In 90s WORLD CUPS

Lara - Avg of 41 with 85 SR
SRT - Avg of 45 with 79 SR

Even Stevens.

Interesting.

 

[Scrolln]

Lara was a better ODI batsman in the 90's but regressed badly between 1999-2007.

SRT was the second best of the 90's and the best of the 00's.

 

[90MPH]

Who is the bigger bottler ??

Talent can only take you so far, and no doubt they both are in terms of timing the ball. Actually I really think AB slightly edges him in terms of execution on all types of shots.

However I have seen both bottle and choke when the teams need them most.

Now let's look at G.Smith. Probably one of the most ugliest techniques seen in the game of cricket but he still gets the job done under pressure, and has played some great knocks when the team needed him.

 

[street cricketer]

I've seen so many such comparisons in the past here. Although they serve to bring up great discussions, I simply don't think there is any point in comparing players of different eras as you can never really come to a final conclusion as to who is the best. It's comparing apples with oranges. You can only compare players with their contemporaries and peers. It's like comparing Messi with Maradona with Pele. Many fouls were allowed during the older eras while even the smallest of nudges will get you a foul nowadays. In a game like cricket which changes continuously with time much more than football, especially the ODIs which have a different set of rules every five years or so, there are so much variables which render any comparison useless.

The Don played on uncovered wickets during war times. Still you can never know how he would have performed against the newer countries and in limited overs cricket, as he played pretty much only against England. Viv was by far the best player of his era. Sachin and Lara played against the most ATG bowlers ever in their prime. Now ABD has been playing knocks like never before seen. But you can never know whether ABD could have played the same devastating knocks against the likes of Wasim, Waqar, Mushtaq, Warne, McGrath, Murali, Ambrose, Walsh, etc., in bigger boundaries with much difficult rules. Of course, we can't fault ABD for that and he can only play what is in front of him. Similarly we don't know how a player like Viv would have fared during the 90s or if he had played during the T20 era with easier rules. Also we can never know how all these players would have fared on the uncovered wickets that the Don played on. At the end of the day, we can only select players who were the best during their respective eras by comparing with their peers. Viv was by far the best for his era, Sachin & Ponting were the best during their era, and now ABD is the best during his.

Coaching has changed, players techniques have changed, pitches have changed, boundary sizes have changed, rules have changed, approach to the game has changed and overall quality of the bowlers have changed. Fans will rate only the players who they've seen the most, experts will have a different set of XIs according to their own choices. Those who grew up in the 60s will have more players of the 60s and the 70s era or even before, in their all time 11. Current generation will choose more players from the 90s and the 2000s in the ATG XI line up. But like I said, it's all only "speculation".

 

[SL_Fan]

Bevan was up there as well in the 90s - 4k runs at over 60 striking in the high 70s.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...0;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Lara was a better ODI batsman in the 90's but regressed badly between 1999-2007.

SRT was the second best of the 90's and the best of the 00's.

I am not too sure. I personally don't have any problems with Lara ahead of SRT in 90s but here's the issue:

Lara surely crushed SRT in outside Asia (away for both and excluding neutral venues) and he needs to get credit for that.
But otherwise, it all even stevens.
In tournaments, SRT did better.
In Asia, SRT was a monster.
Plus impact wise...it was incredible. Even today, Desert Storm gets talked about. Gilly was tweeting about it last year or so to Warney.

In 1999, when SRT came out to bat against Aussies in WC, commies were saying he is probably the best.

In all ratings around 2000...SRT wins for ODIs.

You can't be winning those ratings if you have no impact.

Even Saeed Anwar wouldn't turn up that great if we dig in ODI stats like Test stats but reality was that he was a top opener along with SRT in the 90s.

Just like Viv is far ahead of anyone in ODIs based on everything (a place where we disagree ), I do feel SRT was the best batsman in 90s for ODIs (which is validated by so many opinions about SRT at the turn of the millenium).

Stats can show SRT to be really good in ODIs in 2000s but I felt he wasn't all that great in 2000s and if you notice....hardly anyone talks about SRT as the best bat in this 2000s period.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Bevan was up there as well in the 90s - 4k runs at over 60 striking in the high 70s.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...0;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Bevan is a certified GOAT.

Whattay player. Just would sap the hope out of you when he is batting.

 

[Rickz]

ABDV is sensational, bowlers and teams fear him, he can play a well composed innings or score at might.

ABDV has not finished his career, although he can overtake Sachin in odi's. However, the main difference is Sachin faced a myriad of great bowlers: Warne, McGrath, Wasim, Waqur, Donald, Ambrose, Walsh, Murali, Steyn, Pollock and done better overall in tournements, Sachin has some 6-7 final tournament final hundreds.

In tests's Sachin has faced far more greater bowlers and he averaged 59 in a bowler's dominated era, Sachin is ahead of ABDV.

 

[SL_Fan]

Bevan is a certified GOAT.

Whattay player. Just would sap the hope out of you when he is batting.

107 innings 42 not outs I guess some things never change still contributed around 37 runs per inning tho.

I know he had some issues with the short stuff but just can't figure out why he flopped so badly in Tests. Funny thing is he averaged close to 60 in FC cricket. Such a shame.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I am not too sure. I personally don't have any problems with Lara ahead of SRT in 90s but here's the issue:

Lara surely crushed SRT in outside Asia (away for both and excluding neutral venues) and he needs to get credit for that.
But otherwise, it all even stevens.
In tournaments, SRT did better.
In Asia, SRT was a monster.
Plus impact wise...it was incredible. Even today, Desert Storm gets talked about. Gilly was tweeting about it last year or so to Warney.

In 1999, when SRT came out to bat against Aussies in WC, commies were saying he is probably the best.

In all ratings around 2000...SRT wins for ODIs.

You can't be winning those ratings if you have no impact.

Even Saeed Anwar wouldn't turn up that great if we dig in ODI stats like Test stats but reality was that he was a top opener along with SRT in the 90s.

Just like Viv is far ahead of anyone in ODIs based on everything (a place where we disagree ), I do feel SRT was the best batsman in 90s for ODIs (which is validated by so many opinions about SRT at the turn of the millenium).

Stats can show SRT to be really good in ODIs in 2000s but I felt he wasn't all that great in 2000s and if you notice....hardly anyone talks about SRT as the best bat in this 2000s period.

To illlustrate my point better:

Take Amla and Kohli of this era.

Open up Amla's stats and see. Mind bogglingly good.
Open up Kohli's stats and see. Very good but not as balanced as Amla.

Who is talked about for top ODI bats after ABD? Amla or Kohli.

Kohli by a mile.

Now one may say Amla failed in WCs so he isn't talked about.

But dig in and see. What major thing did Kohli do in WCs? One century against Pakistan in 2015 (non minnow) and a 35 in WC finals 2011.

That's it.

If we FREEZE TODAY's POINT and see 10 years down the line...stats would say....Amla failed in WC against non minnows but Kohli scored just one 100 against non minnows in WCs. Now considering the balanced stats of Amla and we should say Amla wins in ODIs.

That's a statistical conclusion.

Now come back to TODAY's point and see what's the stature of both Amla and Kohli in ODIs among neutral fans?

Exactly.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Not that I am saying Lara of 90s is an Amla.

 

[Rickz]

You should compare important world cup matches and tournament finals, Tendulkar beats Lara with ease.

 

[IndianWillow]

I've already explained why Sachin would not be able to do so. There is no point in repeating the same points. Sachin never had the power game of AB and Viv. He was a stroke player hence thrived as an opener. His SR might improve a bit but would still not be able to score 50 ball hundreds forget a 31 ball hundred against any team.

You don't necessarily need a power game to do these. As you might be knowing, the fastest 50 by a Indian is Dravid (among proper batsmen) off 22 balls and not Sachin. Does Dravid have a better power game then? I think you may remember a young Sachin making an 18 ball 53 against Pakistan (that famous assault on Qadir) when he was only 16 years old. Sachin was certainly capable of brutal hitting though he did not attempt this very often due to the weak team he played in. (If Sachin got out India usually crumbled in the 90s so Sachin curtailed taking risks to a great extent)

AB himself might never score a 31 ball hundred again (even against that WI side), and even Corey Anderson managed a similar knock against the same WI side in the same year. So those freak knocks were made possible due to conditions in this era and were generally impossible in any previous decade. Sachin at his peak never had the modern conditions, so it would be futile to guess what he could have done or not - but he did make some of the fastest scores during his time.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

107 innings 42 not outs I guess some things never change still contributed around 37 runs per inning tho.

I know he had some issues with the short stuff but just can't figure out why he flopped so badly in Tests. Funny thing is he averaged close to 60 in FC cricket. Such a shame.

Heard he was dropped from tests, then worked on his short ball game in FC and looked good but selectors found a stable team so he was never picked.

Bevan is a scary scary dude.

The hypocrisy of how much tests are favoured is shown when almost none of the experts chose Bevan in their World Cup XI that was circulated around.

Even I didn't choose Bevan in my team (forgot about him) and later felt like an idiot.

 

[Scrolln]

I am not too sure. I personally don't have any problems with Lara ahead of SRT in 90s but here's the issue:

Lara surely crushed SRT in outside Asia (away for both and excluding neutral venues) and he needs to get credit for that.
But otherwise, it all even stevens.
In tournaments, SRT did better.
In Asia, SRT was a monster.
Plus impact wise...it was incredible. Even today, Desert Storm gets talked about. Gilly was tweeting about it last year or so to Warney.

In 1999, when SRT came out to bat against Aussies in WC, commies were saying he is probably the best.

In all ratings around 2000...SRT wins for ODIs.

You can't be winning those ratings if you have no impact.

Even Saeed Anwar wouldn't turn up that great if we dig in ODI stats like Test stats but reality was that he was a top opener along with SRT in the 90s.

Just like Viv is far ahead of anyone in ODIs based on everything (a place where we disagree ), I do feel SRT was the best batsman in 90s for ODIs (which is validated by so many opinions about SRT at the turn of the millenium).

Stats can show SRT to be really good in ODIs in 2000s but I felt he wasn't all that great in 2000s and if you notice....hardly anyone talks about SRT as the best bat in this 2000s period.

I actually rate Viv as the greatest ODI batsman of all time! (I do not rate him as highly as people here do, in tests, though) I rate him as the best due to how far ahead he was of the rest in the 80's. Apart from Miandad, Clive Lloyd and Zaheer Abbas i doubt anyone was a GREAT ODI batsman in that era.

I rate Lara as the best ODI bat of the 90's because he dominated Wasim,Waqar and Donald at their absolute peak. SRT did well against them but not nearly as good as Lara. Lara had his weaknesses too, like choking in every single ODI tournament finals since 1994. But Lara treated some of the greatest ODI bowlers of all time, like nothing.

SRT's ODI contributions in 00's were massive. Not only was he a more consistent batsman all across the world, he played a huge role in India winning ODI series in Aus,Pak,WI and NZ. Was man-of the series in our only overseas series win against SA in 2007 and looked good to set up a series win in Eng 2007 before he was sawn off by a ridiculous Aleem Dar decision
Of course, he was a beast at home too, as always.

Anyway the gap between Lara and SRT in the 90's and Ponting and SRT in the 00's is not much.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Bevan was up there as well in the 90s - 4k runs at over 60 striking in the high 70s.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...0;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

The original finisher.

My 90s batting line-up:-

Tendulkar
Jayasuriya
Lara
Mark Waugh
Azharuddin
Klusener
Bevan

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I actually rate Viv as the greatest ODI batsman of all time! (I do not rate him as highly as people here do, in tests, though) I rate him as the best due to how far ahead he was of the rest in the 80's. Apart from Miandad, Clive Lloyd and Zaheer Abbas i doubt anyone was a GREAT ODI batsman in that era.

I rate Lara as the best ODI bat of the 90's because he dominated Wasim,Waqar and Donald at their absolute peak. SRT did well against them but not nearly as good as Lara. Lara had his weaknesses too, like choking in every single ODI tournament finals since 1994. But Lara treated some of the greatest ODI bowlers of all time, like nothing.

SRT's ODI contributions in 00's were massive. Not only was he a more consistent batsman all across the world, he played a huge role in India winning ODI series in Aus,Pak,WI and NZ. Was man-of the series in our only overseas series win against SA in 2007 and looked good to set up a series win in Eng 2007 before he was sawn off by a ridiculous Aleem Dar decision
Of course, he was a beast at home too, as always.

Anyway the gap between Lara and SRT in the 90's and Ponting and SRT in the 00's is not much.

I see....very informative post.

And yeah I agree...the gap between SRT-Lara and Ponting-SRT isn't much in those decades.

 

[IndianWillow]

You make great points and I agree with many but watching both...I do feel ABD is defo better in brute slogging power. The gears he has is crazy. Don't think Sachin is that great in pure slogging.

Its like knowing Glenn McGrath and Akram are better than Steyn in ODIs inspite of Steyn bowling with disadvantages in this era. You just know watching them (however in tests Steyn has claims to be greater than them).

Brute slogging is born out of the T20 culture (typically after 2008). Top batsmen of the 90s rarely indulged in wild slogging, so the extra gears in this era didn't apply to batsmen of the previous generation. AB himself did not slog like this till the dawn of T20 era. What was AB's S/R before 2009? It was only 84. A young Tendulkar was capable of batting more brutally than AB for his era.

ODI cricket has changed dramatically since 2008 or 2009. The batsmen who have played a majority of cricket after this period must be evaluated with a different yard stick. We call a batsman like Rahane with S/R of 76 a "worthless" batsman these days, but Ganguly with S/R of 73 was considered an excellent ODI player for his day. AB himself won't be able to play like this had he played in the 90s and 00s ( between 2004-2008 AB was nothing like he is today). Full credit to all batsmen who are making maximum use of the conditions these days, but this does not necessarily make them better power hitters than their predecessors. Boundaries are often 60m these days, did you ever see that during the 90s?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/680537.html

Power hitting is grossly overhyped these days - this is the era of heavy and thick bats, short boundaries etc. Even a puny looking Venkatapathy Raju can hit sixes these days.

 

[Acricketfan]

I've seen so many such comparisons in the past here. Although they serve to bring up great discussions, I simply don't think there is any point in comparing players of different eras as you can never really come to a final conclusion as to who is the best. It's comparing apples with oranges. You can only compare players with their contemporaries and peers. It's like comparing Messi with Maradona with Pele. Many fouls were allowed during the older eras while even the smallest of nudges will get you a foul nowadays. In a game like cricket which changes continuously with time much more than football, especially the ODIs which have a different set of rules every five years or so, there are so much variables which render any comparison useless.

The Don played on uncovered wickets during war times. Still you can never know how he would have performed against the newer countries and in limited overs cricket, as he played pretty much only against England. Viv was by far the best player of his era. Sachin and Lara played against the most ATG bowlers ever in their prime. Now ABD has been playing knocks like never before seen. But you can never know whether ABD could have played the same devastating knocks against the likes of Wasim, Waqar, Mushtaq, Warne, McGrath, Murali, Ambrose, Walsh, etc., in bigger boundaries with much difficult rules. Of course, we can't fault ABD for that and he can only play what is in front of him. Similarly we don't know how a player like Viv would have fared during the 90s or if he had played during the T20 era with easier rules. Also we can never know how all these players would have fared on the uncovered wickets that the Don played on. At the end of the day, we can only select players who were the best during their respective eras by comparing with their peers. Viv was by far the best for his era, Sachin & Ponting were the best during their era, and now ABD is the best during his.

Coaching has changed, players techniques have changed, pitches have changed, boundary sizes have changed, rules have changed, approach to the game has changed and overall quality of the bowlers have changed. Fans will rate only the players who they've seen the most, experts will have a different set of XIs according to their own choices. Those who grew up in the 60s will have more players of the 60s and the 70s era or even before, in their all time 11. Current generation will choose more players from the 90s and the 2000s in the ATG XI line up. But like I said, it's all only "speculation".

POTW for me.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Brute slogging is born out of the T20 culture (typically after 2008). Top batsmen of the 90s rarely indulged in wild slogging, so the extra gears in this era didn't apply to batsmen of the previous generation. AB himself did not slog like this till the dawn of T20 era. What was AB's S/R before 2009? It was only 84. A young Tendulkar was capable of batting more brutally than AB for his era.

ODI cricket has changed dramatically since 2008 or 2009. The batsmen who have played a majority of cricket after this period must be evaluated with a different yard stick. We call a batsman like Rahane with S/R of 76 a "worthless" batsman these days, but Ganguly with S/R of 73 was considered an excellent ODI player for his day. AB himself won't be able to play like this had he played in the 90s and 00s ( between 2004-2008 AB was nothing like he is today). Full credit to all batsmen who are making maximum use of the conditions these days, but this does not necessarily make them better power hitters than their predecessors. Boundaries are often 60m these days, did you ever see that during the 90s?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/680537.html

Power hitting is grossly overhyped these days - this is the era of heavy and thick bats, short boundaries etc. Even a puny looking Venkatapathy Raju can hit sixes these days.

+1000

Agreed.

 

[Bhaijaan]

If Tendulkar had debuted today at the age of 16, i'd say with his talent and work ethic, he'd hit 15 double hundreds in tests and around 20 ODI hundreds at 200 SR.

Put ABD in the 90s though and i can barely see a 40 averaging test player and a 32 averaging ODI batsman with an SR of mighty 79.

 

[ChachaCricket]

Brute slogging is born out of the T20 culture (typically after 2008). Top batsmen of the 90s rarely indulged in wild slogging, so the extra gears in this era didn't apply to batsmen of the previous generation. AB himself did not slog like this till the dawn of T20 era. What was AB's S/R before 2009? It was only 84. A young Tendulkar was capable of batting more brutally than AB for his era.

ODI cricket has changed dramatically since 2008 or 2009. The batsmen who have played a majority of cricket after this period must be evaluated with a different yard stick. We call a batsman like Rahane with S/R of 76 a "worthless" batsman these days, but Ganguly with S/R of 73 was considered an excellent ODI player for his day. AB himself won't be able to play like this had he played in the 90s and 00s ( between 2004-2008 AB was nothing like he is today). Full credit to all batsmen who are making maximum use of the conditions these days, but this does not necessarily make them better power hitters than their predecessors. Boundaries are often 60m these days, did you ever see that during the 90s?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/680537.html

Power hitting is grossly overhyped these days - this is the era of heavy and thick bats, short boundaries etc. Even a puny looking Venkatapathy Raju can hit sixes these days.

It was around 2009(around 25-26) when AB really developed as a player and came into his own. There was a lot fine tuning to be done before that. It's ridiculous to use those stats as evidence to prove Tendulkar's power game would remain superior had it not been for the T20 era. Laugh-worthy really because of how misinformed you are on AB's development. Unlike Tendulkar, AB was a late bloomer. During his early days, everyone could see the talent but there were a lot of flaws in his technique, bat grip, defence etc. He was quite average during that period in both formats.

When those kinks were sorted out, that's when he took off, in ODIs and tests.

Dude what AB is doing is unreal stuff. He plays cricket like it's a video game. Not one damn bowler has gotten the better of him, not one! If it was that easy, you'd see every modern great batsman striking near a 100 but he is head and shoulders above anyone else which Tendulkar was not.

 

[ChachaCricket]

[MENTION=135445]Strike Rate[/MENTION] posted these earlier

Video game numbers. You're telling me Tendulkar could replicate this. Mate please.

Consistently striking the ball at 105+ while averaging 66. Unreal.

 

[Ab Fan]

Brute slogging is born out of the T20 culture (typically after 2008). Top batsmen of the 90s rarely indulged in wild slogging, so the extra gears in this era didn't apply to batsmen of the previous generation. AB himself did not slog like this till the dawn of T20 era. What was AB's S/R before 2009? It was only 84. A young Tendulkar was capable of batting more brutally than AB for his era.

ODI cricket has changed dramatically since 2008 or 2009. The batsmen who have played a majority of cricket after this period must be evaluated with a different yard stick. We call a batsman like Rahane with S/R of 76 a "worthless" batsman these days, but Ganguly with S/R of 73 was considered an excellent ODI player for his day. AB himself won't be able to play like this had he played in the 90s and 00s ( between 2004-2008 AB was nothing like he is today). Full credit to all batsmen who are making maximum use of the conditions these days, but this does not necessarily make them better power hitters than their predecessors. Boundaries are often 60m these days, did you ever see that during the 90s?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/680537.html

Power hitting is grossly overhyped these days - this is the era of heavy and thick bats, short boundaries etc. Even a puny looking Venkatapathy Raju can hit sixes these days.

A very good post but a flawed one.Ganguly with SR of 73 was considered excellent because he averaged 42 and in terms of records of multiples of fastest 1000 runs, he was going neck to neck with Sachin and ponting. Also he could change gears. AB before 2008 was a talented batsmen but had lots of flaws.He developed with time and then peaked.Its not all because of batting friendly rules and lack of quality bowlers. Also even then he had the image of an aggressive batsmen and obviously at such younger age he won't have a SR like that...It was quite like Yuvi whose actual SR if u see is 87 but we all know he was among the big hitters in the team.So at that time his SR was misleading because he wasn't consistently playing good innings..Take an example of Rohit Sharma..His SR is 83-84 but we all know if in form he is more destructive than even kohli.Now if batting has become so easy then why a quality player like Rahane is still to make an impression in odis...Also, would you rate Kohli as not at all explosive as Sachin was as you rate Sachin and AB at same level?

 

[Mamoon]

Tendulkar for me, let jingoism rear its ugly head for others.

 

[Mamoon]

Brute slogging is born out of the T20 culture (typically after 2008). Top batsmen of the 90s rarely indulged in wild slogging, so the extra gears in this era didn't apply to batsmen of the previous generation. AB himself did not slog like this till the dawn of T20 era. What was AB's S/R before 2009? It was only 84. A young Tendulkar was capable of batting more brutally than AB for his era.

ODI cricket has changed dramatically since 2008 or 2009. The batsmen who have played a majority of cricket after this period must be evaluated with a different yard stick. We call a batsman like Rahane with S/R of 76 a "worthless" batsman these days, but Ganguly with S/R of 73 was considered an excellent ODI player for his day. AB himself won't be able to play like this had he played in the 90s and 00s ( between 2004-2008 AB was nothing like he is today). Full credit to all batsmen who are making maximum use of the conditions these days, but this does not necessarily make them better power hitters than their predecessors. Boundaries are often 60m these days, did you ever see that during the 90s?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/680537.html

Power hitting is grossly overhyped these days - this is the era of heavy and thick bats, short boundaries etc. Even a puny looking Venkatapathy Raju can hit sixes these days.

Flawless assessment, but I think it will take time for the 'AB' fanboys to let that sink in, but they are breeding like rabbits on PakPassion these days (mostly driven out of chauvinism) making this place quite insufferable these days.

 

[Ab Fan]

If Tendulkar had debuted today at the age of 16, i'd say with his talent and work ethic, he'd hit 15 double hundreds in tests and around 20 ODI hundreds at 200 SR.

Put ABD in the 90s though and i can barely see a 40 averaging test player and a 32 averaging ODI batsman with an SR of mighty 79.

And trolling is taken to another level..This one had to be the POTW..

 

[Sachin136]

If Sachin played today I do not think he would replicate what AB is doing today (in terms of the strike rate). He had an amazing power game way ahead of his time (maybe even equivalent to how far ahead AB is), but that doesn't mean he can do what AB does in this era. But as a top order batsmen he has a different role in the team, power hitting isn't the only factor in judging an ODI batsman.

 

[Hawkeye]

Tendulkar for me, let jingoism rear its ugly head for others.

Your judgment is clouded by SA/AB hate.

 

[Mamoon]

Your judgment is clouded by SA/AB hate.

So you have to biased against the Proteas to believe that Tendulkar is better than de Villiers. Hmm okay.

 

[ChachaCricket]

So you have to biased against the Proteas to believe that Tendulkar is better than de Villiers. Hmm okay.

In ODIs? What does he have to accomplish to overtake Teenda?

 

[Bilal7]

So you have to biased against the Proteas to believe that Tendulkar is better than de Villiers. Hmm okay.

No, but someone who has come out and said that he hates the South African team cannot be objective in this discussion.

ABD is ahead of Sachin as far as ODIs goes. After seeing that he averages 66 at a SR of over 100 since 2009, I have no doubts about this.

 

[Abdullah719]

If Sachin played today I do not think he would replicate what AB is doing today (in terms of the strike rate). He had an amazing power game way ahead of his time (maybe even equivalent to how far ahead AB is), but that doesn't mean he can do what AB does in this era. But as a top order batsmen he has a different role in the team, power hitting isn't the only factor in judging an ODI batsman.

Fair post.

 

[Mamoon]

In ODIs? What does he have to accomplish to overtake Teenda?

Bat in the top 3 rather play most of his great innings while riding on the momentum of the top 3. That would be a start for me. If he is adamant at playing the position he does, then he needs to become a better chaser and finisher. As things stand, he is the greatest player of all time when it comes to flaying deflated attacks, which is the perfect platform for him - not many iconic innings otherwise to be put ahead of a player who is widely regarded as among the top 5 batsman of all time by most neutrals observers, players, viewers etc., and top 2 in ODIs along with Viv (GOAT).

de Villiers is not talked about as an all-time great yet by many outside PakPassion while Tendulkar was considered one before he was 30, so there is certainly some difference there. de Villiers has a long, long way to go before he can match the aura of Tendulkar and be the one-man machine which Tendulkar was for much of the early 90's.

de Villiers is head and shoulders above his teammates but he has excellent support outside of World Cups of course.

Comparisons with Viv and Tendulkar are premature; let his career finish. In Tests, he has a very long way to go to even be eligible, so it is quite possible that he will not be considered an overall ATG unless he becomes one in Test cricket, and that's how great players are generally remembered.

So in a nutshell, both overall and in ODIs only, he certainly has not done enough yet to be considered as superior to one of the most iconic batsman of all time for the cricketing universe excluding his ever-growing fan club on PakPassion brewed out of jingoism, insecurity and hatred.

Regarding Tests, well it is not even a question at this point, because he is not even the best Test batsman in his team and not even in the top 3 Test batsmen to have played for his country in the last 15 years (Kallis, Smith, Amla).

 

[Mamoon]

No, but someone who has come out and said that he hates the South African team cannot be objective in this discussion.

ABD is ahead of Sachin as far as ODIs goes. After seeing that he averages 66 at a SR of over 100 since 2009, I have no doubts about this.

So will you take my assessment [ Amla > de Villiers (Tests) ] objective then, since it aligns with your train of thought or will you be dismissive of it in the same fashion as my assessment that Tendulkar > de Villiers overall and in ODIs as well, because it doesn't align with your train of thought.

 

[Bilal7]

So will you take my assessment [ Amla > de Villiers (Tests) ] objective then, since it aligns with your train of thought or will you be dismissive of it in the same fashion as my assessment that Tendulkar > de Villiers overall and in ODIs as well, because it doesn't align with your train of thought.

I don't think any of your opinions on anything relating to South Africa are objective, given your history with them. No offense.

 

[habibi hayya]

[MENTION=135445]Strike Rate[/MENTION] posted these earlier

Video game numbers. You're telling me Tendulkar could replicate this. Mate please.

Consistently striking the ball at 105+ while averaging 66. Unreal.

Wow....had no idea he was this good for such a long time. Jeez...

 

[Mamoon]

I don't think any of your opinions on anything relating to South Africa are objective, given your history with them. No offense.

None taken.

 

[Mamoon]

Wow....had no idea he was this good for such a long time. Jeez...

He has taken advantage of the post-2010/2011 boom better than anyone because of his versatility. Sangakkara is in the same boat, his post 2010/2011 stats must be insane, because he was a pretty average ODI batsman for most of the 2000's.

 

[ChachaCricket]

Before 4 fielders rule change.

 

[Pete Rose]

ABD chokes more often than Tendulkar, so Tendulkar wins.

 

[Buffet]

He has taken advantage of the post-2010/2011 boom better than anyone because of his versatility. Sangakkara is in the same boat, his post 2010/2011 stats must be insane, because he was a pretty average ODI batsman for most of the 2000's.

Sanga used have SR in mid 70s even in 2012. Only in his last two and half years he had a good SR. I am 100% sure that it's simply due to new rules. Same rules also helped AB to have a SR of 115 in the last 3 years and it boosted his career SR but you are unfairly making a parallel with Sanga here. AB had gun numbers few years before that as well. Clearly, taking stats at face value for comparison with older era will be delusional but AB's situation is not the same as Sanga. AB was late bloomer and new rules surely inflated his stats but his situation is not just due to new rules.

And no, I and many other SA fans don't rate AB in league of Viv or SRT, but just making a point here.

 

[sivaji]

Did anyone say AB is adamant about batting at 5?? Haha the length some Sachin fanatics/SA haters would go to defend Sachin's status.
AB has said he wants to bat at 3 but he has to bat at no 4 or 5 given that Faf has failed down the order and has been doing good at no 3. Since AB could play all positions, it makes more sense to play AB at no 4 or 5. Watching both, it is easier to see than AB is in different league to Sachin. Some people tried to cast him as slogger here. LOL. He can play all the shots in the book and not in the book. if Sachin wasn't mentally weak, I'd have him ahead of AB. An average of 54 at SR of 100. Sachin can only dream of.

 

[sivaji]

Sanga used have SR in mid 70s even in 2012. Only in his last two and half years he had a good SR. I am 100% sure that it's simply due to new rules. Same rules also helped AB to have a SR of 115 in the last 3 years and it boosted his career SR but you are unfairly making a parallel with Sanga here. AB had gun numbers few years before that as well. Clearly, taking stats at face value for comparison with older era will be delusional but AB's situation is not the same as Sanga. AB was late bloomer and new rules surely inflated his stats but his situation is not just due to new rules.

And no, I and many other SA fans don't rate AB in league of Viv or SRT, but just making a point here.

Not in tests but in ODIs, AB is better. The delusional Sachin fanatics would find it hard to admit.

 

[ChachaCricket]

Sanga used have SR in mid 70s even in 2012. Only in his last two and half years he had a good SR. I am 100% sure that it's simply due to new rules. Same rules also helped AB to have a SR of 115 in the last 3 years and it boosted his career SR but you are unfairly making a parallel with Sanga here. AB had gun numbers few years before that as well. Clearly, taking stats at face value for comparison with older era will be delusional but AB's situation is not the same as Sanga. AB was late bloomer and new rules surely inflated his stats but his situation is not just due to new rules.

And no, I and many other SA fans don't rate AB in league of Viv or SRT, but just making a point here.

What's the gap between Sachin and AB in ODIs? What do you feel he has to achieve to go past him?

 

[Buffet]

What's the gap between Sachin and AB in ODIs? What do you feel he has to achieve to go past him?

4-5 additional years of what he is doing and winning more matches. I consider him in the same class as Viv/SRT but being the top batsman for 5 years in ODI is similar to how Ponting was the top test player for 5 years. During that stretch, Ponting was touted as the second best batsman after Bradman by many and we all know how it ended.

I am seeing the same thing for AB in ODI. Not many fans considered Ponting as the top 2-3 batsman in the test format before his gun 5 years. Same is true for AB in the ODI format. AB wasn't really counted as top dogs in 00s by many. Difference is that Ponting declined after that period and AB can write his script. So as I said, I will give him this entire 2010s. We are not even half way in 2010s.

In my eyes, AB may actually surpass Viv/SRT in ODI format by the time he hangs up his boot but I will wait additional 4-5 years to make that call.

 

[sajeebmcj]

abd will never be able to past sachin as a odi batsman. if he scores 70 -80 run at 120 strike rate per innings, he will not be same as sachin according to some fan . they will make excuse...
as per sachin - abd debate, I think sachin's main achivement was his consistency through 24 years. devilliers have to continue his consistency for a longer period of time.

someone steted that de Villiers is late bloomer.its totally wrong. most players stuggle in his initial stage of his career. after passing 2 - 3 yreas, they reached their best. ab is no exceptional. except 2004, he performed every year.

 

[sajeebmcj]

4-5 additional years of what he is doing and winning more matches. I consider him in the same class as Viv/SRT but being the top batsman for 5 years in ODI is similar to how Ponting was the top test player for 5 years. During that stretch, Ponting was touted as the second best batsman after Bradman by many and we all know how it ended.

I am seeing the same thing for AB in ODI. Not many fans considered Ponting as the top 2-3 batsman in the test format before his gun 5 years. Same is true for AB in the ODI format. AB wasn't really counted as top dogs in 00s by many. Difference is that Ponting declined after that period and AB can write his script. So as I said, I will give him this entire 2010s. We are not even half way in 2010s.

In my eyes, AB may actually surpass Viv/SRT in ODI format by the time he hangs up his boot but I will wait additional 4-5 years to make that call.

agree here.

 

[Buffet]

someone steted that de Villiers is late bloomer.its totally wrong. most players stuggle in his initial stage of his career.

A good catch. I actually didn't mean in traditional sense. I was mainly thinking about AB's name coming as the top 2-3 batsmen in 00s and I don't think that he used to come up much in that entire decade even though he picked up his game in the later part of 00s.

AB had 4 tons in around 90-100 ODIs in 00s. In 2010s, he has 19 tons in around 90-100 ODIs, so you get my drift. Even though his average etc started looking good in later part of 00s, he didn't play too many gun knocks to be noticed and he wasn't really counted as the top 2-3 batsmen by many in previous decade.

As you said, it's about doing it for longer years. I made the same point earlier in this thread. It's about him being top player for a longer period. If he keeps up the same output for additional 4-5 years, I will simply rate him as the best ODI batsman. Many here may not agree but 10 years of being in/near the top is good enough for me.

I have not seen Viv but I have seen SRT's entire career. I will surely rate AB higher if he does the same thing for another 4-5 years. Many will bring WC and SA kind of irrelevant stats but he can't be responsible for others not stepping up. For that Matter, SRT got the WC pretty much at the end of his career so it's an irrelevant point. AB is not good in finishing and he used to botch up a lot just few years ago but SRT wasn't too great in that aspect. I saw him playing stupid shots many times as well.

 

[sivaji]

I don't need to look at stats guru. When I see a quality player I know it. AB has the class to play a proper knock and as well as the power to play power hitting with consistency. Having seen both Sachin and AB, I can conclude AB is the better ODI batsman.

 

[Ab Fan]

I have not seen Viv but I have seen SRT's entire career. I will surely rate AB higher if he does the same thing for another 4-5 years. Many will bring WC and SA kind of irrelevant stats but he can't be responsible for others not stepping up. For that Matter, SRT got the WC pretty much at the end of his career so it's an irrelevant point. AB is not good in finishing and he used to botch up a lot just few years ago but SRT wasn't too great in that aspect. I saw him playing stupid shots many times as well.

It goes without saying that to match the consistency and longevity of Sachin, one has to be consistent throughout his career and AB has hardly lost his form since 2009 but he needs to be consistent for 4-5 years more.Apart from that, there is a lot of resemblance in their game and their strength and weakness.

 

[Indian_Supporter]

AB and Sachin should not be mentioned even on the same sentence.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[Mamoon]

Sanga used have SR in mid 70s even in 2012. Only in his last two and half years he had a good SR. I am 100% sure that it's simply due to new rules. Same rules also helped AB to have a SR of 115 in the last 3 years and it boosted his career SR but you are unfairly making a parallel with Sanga here. AB had gun numbers few years before that as well. Clearly, taking stats at face value for comparison with older era will be delusional but AB's situation is not the same as Sanga. AB was late bloomer and new rules surely inflated his stats but his situation is not just due to new rules.

And no, I and many other SA fans don't rate AB in league of Viv or SRT, but just making a point here.

My comparison was only limited to the point that both batsmen took full advantage of the new rules, other than that there is no doubt that de Villiers is vastly superior in ODIs. In fact, he is the dream ODI player for these conditions.

But from observation, I'd say that other than de Villiers, Sangakkara leads the way when it comes to cashing in under the new rules.

 

[Slog]

AB and Sachin should not be mentioned even on the same sentence.

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AB Has been unreal and many would say has surpassed Sachin but it is still a valid comparison. Don't downplay Sachin's achievements by saying that he cannot be mentioned in same sentence.

 

[Indian_Supporter]

AB Has been unreal and many would say has surpassed Sachin but it is still a valid comparison. Don't downplay Sachin's achievements by saying that he cannot be mentioned in same sentence.

Even Boycott's grandma can score runs in this era of flat decks, heavy bats, small grounds and against lack of quality bowlers. The best bowler in the world plays in his own team.

Rohit Sharma also has 2 Double hundreds when Sachin had only 1 and Viv Richards none. What does it say? Batting got extremely easy these days.

I have no doubt ABDV would have avg late 30's - early 40s had he played in 90s.

But yeah people can debate though...adds lot of entertainment value. Comparing with Sachin

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[Ab Fan]

Even Boycott's grandma can score runs in this era of flat decks, heavy bats, small grounds and against lack of quality bowlers. The best bowler in the world plays in his own team.

Rohit Sharma also has 2 Double hundreds when Sachin had only 1 and Viv Richards none. What does it say? Batting got extremely easy these days.

I have no doubt ABDV would have avg late 30's - early 40s had he played in 90s.

But yeah people can debate though...adds lot of entertainment value. Comparing with Sachin

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Then why a quality player like Rahane is struggling in odis...?He avgs 32-33 and at SR of 76-77..Why Dhoni has hardly two -three quickfire knocks in last four years?

 

[street cricketer]

AB and Sachin should not be mentioned even on the same sentence.

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Now this is overegging it. Yes, the rules have become much easier and the quality of the bowlers have gone down. But all these are not ABD's faults and he is the best ODI player of this era by some distance. So it is only fair that comparisons are made with the previous best players of their respective eras, although I'm not sure you can come to a credible conclusion by comparing across different eras. But nevertheless, the comparison is valid.