SAS role in Indian army crackdown on Sikhs? Golden Temple 1984

[Cpt. Rishwat]

DID The SAS kill at Amritsar? Foreign Office hastily recalls files 'detailing UK role' in notorious Indian army crackdown on Sikhs


Dozens of files were pulled from the National Archives amid fears they detail British involvement in the Indian Army's attack on Amritsar in 1984.
Papers were released from Whitehall to the National Archives this summer but recalled abruptly after the Sikh Federation wrote to Boris Johnson to tell him they had found 'delicate information' relating to 'UK military assistance to India'.
A note, seen by the MailOnline, found by a researcher reportedly referred to the possibility of SAS involvement after 'an Indian request for military assistance in the setting up of a National Guard for internal security duties'.
The note was written by a civil servant in the Foreign Office's South Asia department in July, 1984, and was copied to Ministry of Defence official and the high commissioner in Delhi.
Hundreds of people were killed on June 6, 1984 when Indian troops stormed the Golden Temple at Amritsar, which was being held by Sikh separatists.
The three-day siege saw the Indian Army storm the Golden Temple to flush out Sikh separatists and arrest Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale a Sikh leader and his followers who had initiated a movement for a separate Sikh state.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ndian-army-crackdown-Sikhs.html#ixzz4P3Ks9vXJ

I don't really get what all the fuss is about. This incident happened in the 1980's, why are the files being recalled now, surely all this has been done and dusted a long time ago? What if the SAS did help in cleaning out the Sikh terrorists when they hid in the Golden Temple, the far worse massacre was when close to 3000 sikhs were killed in retaliatory riots against the sikhs in India. Why not create a fuss about that?

 

[troodon]

I did not read the article. So just taking a blind stab.

Its elections time. The issue of Sikh riots, emergency, Operation Blue Star is always played during elections.

The same with Babri Masjid, Ram Janma Bhoomi issue.

 

[Indiafan]

Every election the same issue is rinsed and repeated

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I did not read the article. So just taking a blind stab.

Its elections time. The issue of Sikh riots, emergency, Operation Blue Star is always played during elections.

The same with Babri Masjid, Ram Janma Bhoomi issue.

In which case this must still be an emotional topic if it's being used as a vote winner 40 years later. What is more concern is that it seems to be important enough for the British govt to recall files which may have implicated British involvement in putting down the protests. I think we should steer clear of Indian politics and stick to our own protocols.

 

[Thivagar]

If the Indian Army can do this in a broad light that too in a well known Indian city, imagine what they can do/did away from your eyes ?

 

[MrBrownstone]

Sikhs will never forget 1984 and rightly so, if you let people get away with something then there's nothing stopping them from doing it again. Indira Gandhi started the whole mess due to her greed for power in Punjab and it came to bite her back in the backside, she is the one who backed the leader of the Sikh militants in the first place but eventually he stopped being her puppet. What did the Muslims of Gujarat do? just accepted their fate instead of doing something about it. As for the operation itself it was a total mess, no one was being held hostage and nor were the army being attacked. Still despite all of these problems Sikhs have made a success of themselves in India and abroad.

 

[PakLFC]

Sikhs will never forget 1984 and rightly so, if you let people get away with something then there's nothing stopping them from doing it again. Indira Gandhi started the whole mess due to her greed for power in Punjab and it came to bite her back in the backside, she is the one who backed the leader of the Sikh militants in the first place but eventually he stopped being her puppet. What did the Muslims of Gujarat do? just accepted their fate instead of doing something about it. As for the operation itself it was a total mess, no one was being held hostage and nor were the army being attacked. Still despite all of these problems Sikhs have made a success of themselves in India and abroad.

Being so called successful abroad has nothing to do with the attack on the GT. The Muslim's of Gujarat just like the Sikh's have received to justice over what happened to them as well. Only difference is that Sikh's continue to beat their chests about it some 32 years later, it will make no difference. From the perspective of the Indian military the operation was a massive success, they wanted and got Bhandrawala's head.

 

[Spidy201]

This is not just an election issue, this thing gets debated every year this time of the year, because in 1984 Nov genocide happened. And no one forgets 1984 because culprits are still roaming free.
everyone thought CBI will do something as Congress is not in govt. But election equation is such that if BJP did punish those Congress leader(Tytler and sajjan Kumar) Congress will be zero in punjab, and if Congress becomes zero, elections results will be similar to Delhi 2015.

 

[PakLFC]

I acknowledge that there is a difference between Gujarat and Operation Bluestar. The Sikh's had their holiest shrine desecrated leaving behind a massive psychological scar that refuses to heal. Gujarat though a massive genocide no historical Muslim shrine was attacked or humiliated. India has somehow tried to find a Pakistani angle to the 1984 attacks but the Sikh's are not having it. They know that Pakistan had nothing to do with the attack on the Golden Temple.

 

[MrBrownstone]

Being so called successful abroad has nothing to do with the attack on the GT. The Muslim's of Gujarat just like the Sikh's have received to justice over what happened to them as well. Only difference is that Sikh's continue to beat their chests about it some 32 years later, it will make no difference. From the perspective of the Indian military the operation was a massive success, they wanted and got Bhandrawala's head.

You still have to fight for justice, in the hope that one day it might be delivered. Especially if your family members were victims.

The operation was not a success for the military, it gave rise to the militancy in Punjab from 1984-1995, prior to Operation Bluestar there was no way near the same level of trouble.

 

[PakLFC]

You still have to fight for justice, in the hope that one day it might be delivered. Especially if your family members were victims.

The operation was not a success for the military, it gave rise to the militancy in Punjab from 1984-1995, prior to Operation Bluestar there was no way near the same level of trouble.

The military will say that they had to take care off the freedom fighters. If according to you militancy ended after 1995 then the operation was indeed a success. India knows that if one state breaks away be it Kashmir or Khalistan is formed than that is the end of the Indian union.

 

[Hail-Akram]

This is not just an election issue, this thing gets debated every year this time of the year, because in 1984 Nov genocide happened. And no one forgets 1984 because culprits are still roaming free.
everyone thought CBI will do something as Congress is not in govt. But election equation is such that if BJP did punish those Congress leader(Tytler and sajjan Kumar) Congress will be zero in punjab, and if Congress becomes zero, elections results will be similar to Delhi 2015.

When discussing these events I have some very strong views.
Firstly the operation blue-star, I don't think it was wrong. Terrorists shouldn't be allowed to exploit the religious place as a hide-out. Religion doesn't matter.
Anti-Sikh riots that followed was actually a planned mass-murder where politicians led mobs to kill Sikh families; the motive probably was to prove loyalty towards the Gandhi family.
And the fact that culprits are roaming free (Tytler and sajjan Kumar) is purely sad and a mockery of the judicial system. Justice delayed is justice denied. The culprits have got an advantage of the huge time that has elapsed due to which any testimony by victims is not very strong. How clearly really can you testify on something that happened 30 years ago. Although people know who are the victims, I don't think they will be punished at all. Sad !

 

[MrBrownstone]

The military will say that they had to take care off the freedom fighters. If according to you militancy ended after 1995 then the operation was indeed a success. India knows that if one state breaks away be it Kashmir or Khalistan is formed than that is the end of the Indian union.

You don't understand, the call for independence was much less before Operation Bluestar and increased a huge amount after. It only made matters worse. If the government had thought about the problem carefully then such demand for independence would not be there especially 30 years later (from a small amount of Sikhs).

 

[PakLFC]

You don't understand, the call for independence was much less before Operation Bluestar and increased a huge amount after. It only made matters worse. If the government had thought about the problem carefully then such demand for independence would not be there especially 30 years later (from a small amount of Sikhs).

I understand well. Point I am making is that during the independence of the sub continent the Sikh's by and large chose to remain with India so what are you crying about now? The Indian government doesn't even recognise Sikhism or it's adherents as a different religious community. Sikh's are now stuck in the situation they are. Unless India breaks in to parts they will never have a separate country.

 

[MrBrownstone]

I understand well. Point I am making is that during the independence of the sub continent the Sikh's by and large chose to remain with India so what are you crying about now? The Indian government doesn't even recognise Sikhism or it's adherents as a different religious community. Sikh's are now stuck in the situation they are. Unless India breaks in to parts they will never have a separate country.

Your original point was that Operation Bluestar was a success which it clearly wasn't, it only escalated the violence and chaos in Punjab and surrounding areas.

It's like saying the 2003 Iraq war was a success because Saddam Hussein was toppled but it only caused more problems which will take a long time to settle down.

Despite being a well off community, Sikhs don't have good leaders, the Muslims had Jinnah and the Hindus had Nehru and Gandhi, all three were highly educated, the Sikh's leader at the time was a village school teacher called Tara Singh. He was not at the level of those three.

Muslims were discriminated by Hindus and even Sikhs prior to partition. They were made to drink from seperate fountains and not eat in the same room, naturally this would lead to calls of separatism. I don't think Sikhs were discriminated against and the Sikh leader trusted Nehru and Gandhi promises so that is why there was not much of a demand for Khalistan. Also the relationship between Sikhs and Hindus is very different to the relationship between Muslims and Hindus.

After independence the Sikhs wanted a state where Punjabi was the official language, this led to agitation and violence and caused Punjab to split into Punjab and Haryana. Then in the 80s, Indira Gandhi wanted to cause chaos so that her congress party could win seats in Punjab.

So to clarify Sikhs believed in Gandhi and Nehru's promises which weren't fulfilled and coupled with Indira Gandhi's meddling this led to a demand for independence.

 

[PakLFC]

Your original point was that Operation Bluestar was a success which it clearly wasn't, it only escalated the violence and chaos in Punjab and surrounding areas.

It's like saying the 2003 Iraq war was a success because Saddam Hussein was toppled but it only caused more problems which will take a long time to settle down.

Despite being a well off community, Sikhs don't have good leaders, the Muslims had Jinnah and the Hindus had Nehru and Gandhi, all three were highly educated, the Sikh's leader at the time was a village school teacher called Tara Singh. He was not at the level of those three.

Muslims were discriminated by Hindus and even Sikhs prior to partition. They were made to drink from seperate fountains and not eat in the same room, naturally this would lead to calls of separatism. I don't think Sikhs were discriminated against and the Sikh leader trusted Nehru and Gandhi promises so that is why there was not much of a demand for Khalistan. Also the relationship between Sikhs and Hindus is very different to the relationship between Muslims and Hindus.

After independence the Sikhs wanted a state where Punjabi was the official language, this led to agitation and violence and caused Punjab to split into Punjab and Haryana. Then in the 80s, Indira Gandhi wanted to cause chaos so that her congress party could win seats in Punjab.

So to clarify Sikhs believed in Gandhi and Nehru's promises which weren't fulfilled and coupled with Indira Gandhi's meddling this led to a demand for independence.

My point is that Sikh's should get over Bluestar that is part of history now. There is no point in protesting every year because it won't lead to anything. I have also told you that the infamous operation was successful in many ways. Firstly the military killed Bhindrawale who was the mastermind of the Khalistan movement that has greatly down in India after his death. It has not been a complete success seeing the movement has gone underground and among Sikh's living in the west.

Of course Sikh and Hindus have better relations then the two communities have with Muslim's after all the former two are both Indian religions with the one root. Muslim's who believe in a religion born in the Middle East will always be looked upon as being outsiders or traitors in India. That is why we formed our own country where as Nehru and co fooled the Sikh's like no one's business. Quaid Jinnah could see that clearly.

Doesn't matter who said or believed in what. Point is that there can be no Khalistan without the breaking up of India. There is little point in protesting 1984 every year, no one's listening neither does any community other then the Sikh one care about it.

 

[MrBrownstone]

My point is that Sikh's should get over Bluestar that is part of history now. There is no point in protesting every year because it won't lead to anything. I have also told you that the infamous operation was successful in many ways. Firstly the military killed Bhindrawale who was the mastermind of the Khalistan movement that has greatly down in India after his death. It has not been a complete success seeing the movement has gone underground and among Sikh's living in the west.

Of course Sikh and Hindus have better relations then the two communities have with Muslim's after all the former two are both Indian religions with the one root. Muslim's who believe in a religion born in the Middle East will always be looked upon as being outsiders or traitors in India. That is why we formed our own country where as Nehru and co fooled the Sikh's like no one's business. Quaid Jinnah could see that clearly.

Doesn't matter who said or believed in what. Point is that there can be no Khalistan without the breaking up of India. There is little point in protesting 1984 every year, no one's listening neither does any community other then the Sikh one care about it.

Bhindranwale never actually asked for Khalistan, the demand for it increased 10 fold after Operation Bluestar.

There's nothing wrong with people demanding justice, they aren't harming anyone.

 

[JaDed]

My point is that Sikh's should get over Bluestar that is part of history now. There is no point in protesting every year because it won't lead to anything. I have also told you that the infamous operation was successful in many ways. Firstly the military killed Bhindrawale who was the mastermind of the Khalistan movement that has greatly down in India after his death. It has not been a complete success seeing the movement has gone underground and among Sikh's living in the west.

Of course Sikh and Hindus have better relations then the two communities have with Muslim's after all the former two are both Indian religions with the one root. Muslim's who believe in a religion born in the Middle East will always be looked upon as being outsiders or traitors in India. That is why we formed our own country where as Nehru and co fooled the Sikh's like no one's business. Quaid Jinnah could see that clearly.

Doesn't matter who said or believed in what. Point is that there can be no Khalistan without the breaking up of India. There is little point in protesting 1984 every year, no one's listening neither does any community other then the Sikh one care about it.

Yes just like the Christians and Shias having great time in Pakistan now coz apparently they share similar root?Stop talking nonsense ,a Muslim from Chennai will get along with a Hindu from Chennai than say a Muslim from Punjab or even Bengal.

There is a reason why the mosques in western countries changes based on regions(Arabs,Africans,Indians etc.)
People can easily live with each other the problem is superiority complex or believing one religion is above other.

 

[PakLFC]

Yes just like the Christians and Shias having great time in Pakistan now coz apparently they share similar root?Stop talking nonsense ,a Muslim from Chennai will get along with a Hindu from Chennai than say a Muslim from Punjab or even Bengal.

There is a reason why the mosques in western countries changes based on regions(Arabs,Africans,Indians etc.)
People can easily live with each other the problem is superiority complex or believing one religion is above other.

There is no nonsense other then what you are saying. Christians and Shias in Pak have nothing to do with Islam and Christianity having the same root. Again your rubbish of a Muslim anywhere in India getting along with another one has nothing to do with Ibrahamic religions having the same root just like Vedic ones. We also share many holy sites with Christians and Jews in the Middle East.

Mosques only for certain groups again is not the point. It is not because of Islamic teachings but Muslim ignorance. The whole world knows the similarities between Middle Eastern faith's not people that you are on about. Seems that reminding you of Khalistan's reality is hurting your ego, the truth does that

 

[jeetu]

Sikh riots happened over 30 years. This issue only comes up during election time in Dehi/Punjab.
How Tytler, Sajjan Kumar avoided conviction is beyond me. Indira Gandhi created that mess and paid for it with life.