Should Imran Khan accept the minus one formula?

[Savak]

Apparently Shah Mahmood Qureshi is going to present the establishment's minus one offer to IK in his meeting with him tomorrow where IK remains the PTI Chairman but in a behind the scenes role and nominates SMQ as the Prime Minister candidate for PTI.

The establishment in exchange will stop the persecution of PTI supporters, workers, politicians and will allow PTI to participate in the next elections and will also take a step back from the Military's Courts, Army Act.

I believe PTI in exchange wants a level playing field in all elections and promise of full fledged security for IK which he deserves as the former prime minister of the country.

Do you think in the present situation, this is the best possible deal for IK and PTI? Will this arrangement be acceptable to PTI and IK's supporters?

 

[SalimBhai]

What is minus one offer?

 

[Savak]

What is minus one offer?

IK handing the PTI leadership to his other senior members and nominating someone else as Prime Minister and taking a back seat

 

[SalimBhai]

IK handing the PTI leadership to his other senior members and nominating someone else as Prime Minister and taking a back seat

I don’t see that happening . That will be hard pill to swallow for him

 

[Savak]

I don’t see that happening . That will be hard pill to swallow for him

Its not really a bad solution. The military's establishment in power right now is totally anti IK and they are not going anywhere for the next 1-2 years. Equations with the army keep changing as we have seen in past experiences with Sharif's, Bhuttos, Zardaris. IK going into a no win fight with the army at this point is no good for him and the country.

PTI benefits because of his name being associated with the party as PTI Chairman. Let's be real he will still be able to move around and go about his regular activities i.e. speaking at events, functions, Shaukat Khannum Hospital fund raisers. To be honest, given the enormity of Pakistan's upcoming economic and other challenges, i think its better someone else bears the brunt of these things.

 

[SalimBhai]

Its not really a bad solution. The military's establishment in power right now is totally anti IK and they are not going anywhere for the next 1-2 years. Equations with the army keep changing as we have seen in past experiences with Sharif's, Bhuttos, Zardaris. IK going into a no win fight with the army at this point is no good for him and the country.

PTI benefits because of his name being associated with the party as PTI Chairman. Let's be real he will still be able to move around and go about his regular activities i.e. speaking at events, functions, Shaukat Khannum Hospital fund raisers. To be honest, given the enormity of Pakistan's upcoming economic and other challenges, i think it’s better someone else bears the brunt of these things.

I agree with you. However his ego will not let him. But you are correct in politics it’s never over.

 

[UP]

Apparently Shah Mahmood Qureshi is going to present the establishment's minus one offer to IK in his meeting with him tomorrow where IK remains the PTI Chairman but in a behind the scenes role and nominates SMQ as the Prime Minister candidate for PTI.

The establishment in exchange will stop the persecution of PTI supporters, workers, politicians and will allow PTI to participate in the next elections and will also take a step back from the Military's Courts, Army Act.

I believe PTI in exchange wants a level playing field in all elections and promise of full fledged security for IK which he deserves as the former prime minister of the country.

Do you think in the present situation, this is the best possible deal for IK and PTI? Will this arrangement be acceptable to PTI and IK's supporters?

What is the guarantee that they won’t brake their promises after? What does the establishment gains if IK remains the party chairman? If he remains the chairman - he can control the next PTI PM.

Will they guarantee a fair election?

If these people can break constitution and harass females and kidnap and kill journalists - they should not be trusted one bit.

However, I’m in favour of IK taking a break and reassess what went wrong and where can he improve. He should go and meet his kids and take this summer off and watch some Ashes in the grounds.

 

[the Great Khan]

IK handing the PTI leadership to his other senior members and nominating someone else as Prime Minister and taking a back seat

That's a decision that should be made by the people of Pakistan. If IK backs down now people will see him as a coward just like Mawaz. Now is the time to dig your heels in. A Real leader doesn't abandon his post. These are hard times but everything passes..now is the time to be patient..

 

[DeadlyVenom]

What is the guarantee that they won’t brake their promises after? What does the establishment gains if IK remains the party chairman? If he remains the chairman - he can control the next PTI PM.

Will they guarantee a fair election?

If these people can break constitution and harass females and kidnap and kill journalists - they should not be trusted one bit.

However, I’m in favour of IK taking a break and reassess what went wrong and where can he improve. He should go and meet his kids and take this summer off and watch some Ashes in the grounds.

If he does this. Its over.

 

[Savak]

That's a decision that should be made by the people of Pakistan. If IK backs down now people will see him as a coward just like Mawaz. Now is the time to dig your heels in. A Real leader doesn't abandon his post. These are hard times but everything passes..now is the time to be patient..

You have to also live to be able to survive another day. He is being abandoned left, right and centre by people who he built up over the years. Right now the top millitary leadership is completely anti IK and will look to apply the ZAB formula against him. The country too needs a break from this saga.

Imran Khan can be useful for Pakistan and the country even without being made the prime minister, his party is all him or nothing, even if he remains the chairman behind the scenes, pti's core voters will remain loyal to him.

He will ultimately be showing the people and the country "Look, i am prepared to take a back seat for the sake of the country, now show us how you will fix the country"

 

[wasim-fan]

I would be super surprised if they are even considering to offer this. I think IK has spooked them beyond their wildest imagination. They can't take their chances now with him. They know that he will go for all of it.

 

[Savak]

I would be super surprised if they are even considering to offer this. I think IK has spooked them beyond their wildest imagination. They can't take their chances now with him. They know that he will go for all of it.

Foreign Powers i.e. the US, UK, Arab States, China know full well the turmoil that will ensure if the army goes ahead with the military's court trial of IK, they are the ones trying to arrange a deal.

 

[UP]

The country does not have enough money to cover mere interests and the guy Hafiz who is jumping up and down with excitement of hoping to apply ZAB formula on IK needs to realise you need money to survive. This is not 70s or 80s anymore, you can't hide behind the PTV. IK being eliminated will create chaos and mayhem and their own lives will not be safe. These dakoos run abroad as soon as they finish looting - Bajwa was humiliated the other day - any nutcase could have simply hurt him.

People are very angry right now against the Dakoo movement. The inflation is crushing the poor and the country everyday. A dollar will be 400 next year. If you do not have money to cover interest - how will you pay for defence Hafiz saab?

Sane heads need to prevail - sit on negotiation table and make policies of defence, foreign and financial and every party should be on the same page with those policies - nobody will break them. Hold elections and give everybody a fair chance and whoever awaam elects makes the govt. The new govt should be fully accountable and should work to create wealth. This is the only way forward.

If a hung parliament is created by Hafiz - it will be of no use. We will continue to suffer and suffer and will run out of money and army, eventually.

Only IK has the power to attract huge dollars - nobody will give a dime to chor Zardaris and Sharifs.

 

[UP]

Foreign Powers i.e. the US, UK, Arab States, China know full well the turmoil that will ensure if the army goes ahead with the military's court trial of IK, they are the ones trying to arrange a deal.

The other day you were saying the said countries were going to benefit if IK was eliminated and Hafiz visited them prior to his attacks on PTI.

 

[Extra_Cover]

Imran Khan should not compromise on minus one formula. The public is with Imran Khan let the people in power continue their naked abuse and let them curse themselves for this world and hereafter.

 

[SalimBhai]

I think he has to leave the country and let the people force the army’s hand or accept minus 1. He will not stay alive in Pakistan with his current mind set

 

[IAJ]

Apparently Shah Mahmood Qureshi is going to present the establishment's minus one offer to IK in his meeting with him tomorrow where IK remains the PTI Chairman but in a behind the scenes role and nominates SMQ as the Prime Minister candidate for PTI.

The establishment in exchange will stop the persecution of PTI supporters, workers, politicians and will allow PTI to participate in the next elections and will also take a step back from the Military's Courts, Army Act.

I believe PTI in exchange wants a level playing field in all elections and promise of full fledged security for IK which he deserves as the former prime minister of the country.

Do you think in the present situation, this is the best possible deal for IK and PTI? Will this arrangement be acceptable to PTI and IK's supporters?

You need to calm down with starting fazool threads every other day. If you support IK then do it properly and IK has said many times that he will not bow down and will keep fighting till his least breath.

 

[Savak]

You need to calm down with starting fazool threads every other day. If you support IK then do it properly and IK has said many times that he will not bow down and will keep fighting till his least breath.

He has also established a committee to negotiate with the govt which includes Shah Mahmood Qureshi where he has given them the mandate to negotiate with the government and establishment i.e. why is the minus one formula in the best interest of the country.

 

[KingKhanWC]

He has also established a committee to negotiate with the govt which includes Shah Mahmood Qureshi where he has given them the mandate to negotiate with the government and establishment i.e. why is the minus one formula in the best interest of the country.

Are you sure this would be a serious proposal to IK and PTI?

If so it means the establishment are very very very worried, as this is a huge backdown.

Imran didnt come into politics for fame or wealth, he had this in abundance. He came to change the condition of the people. If this gets PTI into power, we all know Imran will be calling the shots even if not PM.

I dont think it would a bad or poor move from Imran to accept such as a proposal. Firstly it will free many many people who have been loyal to him. It will then allow him to jail and end the PPP/PLMN once and for all, even hanging some of them after a civil trial. Over time he can weaken the establishments power and in future then become PM himself (after 4/5 years).

 

[moghul]

Patwaris , corrupt generals and politicians would love it to happen.

 

[saeedhk]

Given Khan's inflated ego and narcissism, he will not accept the proposal. If he does, that will be the end of his politics. He is as good as jailed. Once you are out of the electoral system, you are a nobody.

 

[UP]

Are you sure this would be a serious proposal to IK and PTI?

If so it means the establishment are very very very worried, as this is a huge backdown.

Imran didnt come into politics for fame or wealth, he had this in abundance. He came to change the condition of the people. If this gets PTI into power, we all know Imran will be calling the shots even if not PM.

I dont think it would a bad or poor move from Imran to accept such as a proposal. Firstly it will free many many people who have been loyal to him. It will then allow him to jail and end the PPP/PLMN once and for all, even hanging some of them after a civil trial. Over time he can weaken the establishments power and in future then become PM himself (after 4/5 years).

Why would Hafiz offer him to remain as Chairman?

Its not making sense to me.

 

[Savak]

Given Khan's inflated ego and narcissism, he will not accept the proposal. If he does, that will be the end of his politics. He is as good as jailed. Once you are out of the electoral system, you are a nobody.

He is obviously not going to accept the proposal without solid guarantees

 

[wasim-fan]

I don't buy this. Establishment doesn't need to offer this. Within days they have crushed the tehreek. No way they will be sitting on the table now and offer any kind of olive branch. There is no Arab spring like thing happening in Pakistan. They have crushed this early and easily. IK has been completely banned from all content on TV.

 

[the Great Khan]

I don't buy this. Establishment doesn't need to offer this. Within days they have crushed the tehreek. No way they will be sitting on the table now and offer any kind of olive branch. There is no Arab spring like thing happening in Pakistan. They have crushed this early and easily. IK has been completely banned from all content on TV.

No what they've done is put a Cork on a bottle of shaken fizzy drink. They have picked up teenagers from poor families and put them on jail. They have harassed innocent men women and the elderly. Do you think people will forget? They are waiting for a chance..you can't crush a movement that has been ingrained now. Kitni dair? The Pakistani people are resilient and very patient.

As long as Khan is alive and in Pakistan the people are prepared to wait. If anything happens to him then God be with you. Some reports on the ground from various analysts say some crazy stuff. I hope they are not true.

The economy is a shambles. How are they gonna sort it out? They are already thinking of getting rid of them speed minister. But then what? They are a busted flush...they can't declare martial law. They can't have an election. They can't get rid of Khan..so kya kurna hay?

Let's assume they do minus one? Do you think people will vote? Nope...people haven't sacrificed so that some one else can lead them. They want their chosen leader. In Pakistan you need a leader with a strong mandate otherwise get ready for more turmoil.

Just remember Khan is keeping things calm even to this day...also remeber there are elements amongst our enemies who want some kind of insurgency to restart. Beware..

 

[Savak]

I don't buy this. Establishment doesn't need to offer this. Within days they have crushed the tehreek. No way they will be sitting on the table now and offer any kind of olive branch. There is no Arab spring like thing happening in Pakistan. They have crushed this early and easily. IK has been completely banned from all content on TV.

The establishment has terrorized people into silence for now but the voters will eventually respond via the ballot.

 

[wasim-fan]

Honestly if the response had to come from the people it would have come by now. We are fooling ourselves again by these elaborate theories around Khan. They have systematically dismantled his tehreek because it was not a ground based movement. It was propped up by establishment and they broke it.

Historically this is not land of agitation and people's movement. Invaders and rulers have kept coming and life has moved on. Online voices amplify the reality. If with 40% inflation and broken economy, people did not come out to protest against current political sciffle, it won't happen. Happy to be proven wrong, but elites have their incentives to not allow any such thought.

 

[SalimBhai]

Honestly if the response had to come from the people it would have come by now. We are fooling ourselves again by these elaborate theories around Khan. They have systematically dismantled his tehreek because it was not a ground based movement. It was propped up by establishment and they broke it.

Historically this is not land of agitation and people's movement. Invaders and rulers have kept coming and life has moved on. Online voices amplify the reality. If with 40% inflation and broken economy, people did not come out to protest against current political sciffle, it won't happen. Happy to be proven wrong, but elites have their incentives to not allow any such thought.

I am afraid and saddened to say but I agree with you. Would also love to be proven wrong. I was in Pakistan for a very short time recently. People are content with the way things are . Sad affairs.

 

[saeedhk]

Honestly if the response had to come from the people it would have come by now. We are fooling ourselves again by these elaborate theories around Khan. They have systematically dismantled his tehreek because it was not a ground based movement. It was propped up by establishment and they broke it.

Historically this is not land of agitation and people's movement. Invaders and rulers have kept coming and life has moved on. Online voices amplify the reality. If with 40% inflation and broken economy, people did not come out to protest against current political sciffle, it won't happen. Happy to be proven wrong, but elites have their incentives to not allow any such thought.

You are spot on! People from this region are very timid and bow to power.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Honestly if the response had to come from the people it would have come by now. We are fooling ourselves again by these elaborate theories around Khan. They have systematically dismantled his tehreek because it was not a ground based movement. It was propped up by establishment and they broke it.

Historically this is not land of agitation and people's movement. Invaders and rulers have kept coming and life has moved on. Online voices amplify the reality. If with 40% inflation and broken economy, people did not come out to protest against current political sciffle, it won't happen. Happy to be proven wrong, but elites have their incentives to not allow any such thought.

Then I guess Pakistanis must be doing alright then. We see how refugees will even risk drowning their families in their bids to leave desperate countries to reach foreign shores on dangerous boats. I have always maintained that Pakistani people are too comfortable to agitate.

This minus one intiative seems more aimed at not rocking the boat for the military power brokers in Pakistan, otherwise why even bother? They seem shaken by the loss of trust in the army across the country and are now somewhat desperately trying to dial it back to a position where they are under less scrutiny.

 

[Major]

Yes, this is what Zardari did.

He became the president got the constitution changed where the powers went to the PM. But Zardari without any power had alot of influence on our politics and is now part of the establishment.

For PM they would than have to go with someone Imran can trust. Imran will have to become President through senate.

Because imran has failed to lead the parliament as PM

 

[the Great Khan]

Honestly if the response had to come from the people it would have come by now. We are fooling ourselves again by these elaborate theories around Khan. They have systematically dismantled his tehreek because it was not a ground based movement. It was propped up by establishment and they broke it.

Historically this is not land of agitation and people's movement. Invaders and rulers have kept coming and life has moved on. Online voices amplify the reality. If with 40% inflation and broken economy, people did not come out to protest against current political sciffle, it won't happen. Happy to be proven wrong, but elites have their incentives to not allow any such thought.

They did protest..they got shot at and put in jail. People are afraid. Just ask any normal Joe. They won't even admit they are PTI due to fear.

As for your first part that's actually factually incorrect. But we'll debate that at another time.

 

[Kianig89]

Ok get your wish via -1, but what will estb achieve with another trifle govt. Country is already in deep crisis for heaven sake stop using gimmicks

 

[MenInG]

Working towards it -

==


Former prime minister and Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) Chairman Imran Khan on Wednesday was booked in the murder of slain lawyer Abdul Razzaq Shar Advocate in Quetta.

A day earlier, Special Assistant to the Prime Minister Ata Tarar held Imran Khan accountable for the killing.

Speaking during a press conference in the federal capital, the PML-N leader revealed that Imran Khan would be implicated in the murder of Advocate Abdul Razzaq.

Police sources said that the former premier was booked in the murder of the senior lawyer on an application filed by the son of Abdul Razzaq Shar Advocate, Siraj Ahmed Advocate.

The Jameel Shaheed police station lodged the FIR against the PTI chief in connection with the murder of Abdul Razzaq Shar Advocate.

The senior lawyer was killed on Quetta's Airport Road area. Police reports indicate that the assailants unleashed a hail of 14 bullets upon the lawyer's vehicle before swiftly fleeing the scene.

The Supreme Court lawyer had submitted an application against Imran Khan for violating the Constitution. The slain lawyer had demanded the registration of a treason case against the former premier.

A division bench of the Balochistan High Court (BHC) had admitted the petition and the hearing on the case was scheduled for today. However, the case could not be heard because of the absence of the bench.

Members of the legal fraternity observed a boycott of courts against the killing of the senior lawyer. Rahib Buledi, a senior lawyer leader, strongly condemned the killing of senior members of the legal fraternity and lashed out at the Balochistan government.

Balochistan Home Minister Mir Ziaullah Langove condemned the attack and directed the police to arrest the culprits behind the attack. The killing of the senior lawyer was widely condemned by the political parties and members of civil society.

 

[Savak]

It looks like IK has decided to accept his fate as a political martyr.

 

[UP]

The country is in deep crisis economically. A dollar will be 400 next year and 500 in 2025 or after. The Dakoo movement has to pay $25 billion every year to pay off loans. These thugs don’t have the money to cover interest. Let them sink with the country and the best bet for IK will be to take a step back and let the thugs dig grave for themselves.

IK should take a break and leave. Reassess and learn from mistakes and make a comeback after few years. The establishment will need dollars to run their businesses and when the Dakoo movement will run out of gas - they will have to go back to IK. All is not lost. Nobody can save this country as of now. So let the thugs humiliate themselves.

 

[LongHorn]

Something similar was implemented in Bangladesh by the then military as a "Minus 2" concept in 2007

They acted as if Hasina and K Zia were the main problems facing BD and removing them would improve the scene

What happened in reality was that it was planned in full cooperation with Delhi and was a "minus 1" masquerading as a Minus 2

3 years after all the drama, Khaleda Zia got punished far more than Hasina, and the latter came back and "won" the elections
The minus 2 formula was just a cover for Khaleda to effectively be kicked out and Hasina given command till her death

The gist of what I am saying is that just because the powers offer a "Minus 1" formula today to PTI doesnt mean they will honor even 10% of it in a year or two. It may turn out to be an excuse to implement something 180 degrees different from what is being proposed now

 

[Kianig89]

Pakistan istehkam party " joke of the year launched, what is its narrative PRO Estb , Anti PTI , indifferent to PDM, key members JKT President, Aleem Khan No. 2, key members Imran Ismail, Ali Zaidi, Firdous Awan, Fayaz Rat and etc etc

 

[saeedhk]

Military leadership said yesterday that perpetrators of May 9 will face the full wrath of the law.

There is no escaping for Khan now. His life will become even harder with each passing day.

 

[Savak]

Military leadership said yesterday that perpetrators of May 9 will face the full wrath of the law.

There is no escaping for Khan now. His life will become even harder with each passing day.

With the Quetta Lawyer murder case, they are hoping to use it to apply the ZAB formula

 

[UP]

Military leadership said yesterday that perpetrators of May 9 will face the full wrath of the law.

There is no escaping for Khan now. His life will become even harder with each passing day.

There has been zero independent investigation of who actually committed the crime. Innocent people will have their lives destroyed. International human rights have to step in and make sure independent investigation takes place. Hafiz is just excited for personal grudge.

Assuming Hafiz eliminates Khan - what roadmap does he has to pay $25 billion yearly for loans? These thugs don’t have money to cover interest. Hafiz saab has to understand - no money = no army. Or is this guy in for three years and do as much loot maar and run away abroad?

Hafiz saab is in bed with Zardari these days - does this guy seriously think he will bail the country out? The guy has been in charge of Sindh since God knows when and we all know what misery he has created there for people.

A dollar will be 400 and 500 and so on as years will go by. I bet Pakistan will cease to exist in our lifetime if these thugs are not eliminated.

 

[saeedhk]

There has been zero independent investigation of who actually committed the crime. Innocent people will have their lives destroyed. International human rights have to step in and make sure independent investigation takes place. Hafiz is just excited for personal grudge.

Assuming Hafiz eliminates Khan - what roadmap does he has to pay $25 billion yearly for loans? These thugs don’t have money to cover interest. Hafiz saab has to understand - no money = no army. Or is this guy in for three years and do as much loot maar and run away abroad?

Hafiz saab is in bed with Zardari these days - does this guy seriously think he will bail the country out? The guy has been in charge of Sindh since God knows when and we all know what misery he has created there for people.

A dollar will be 400 and 500 and so on as years will go by. I bet Pakistan will cease to exist in our lifetime if these thugs are not eliminated.

Of course he will do loot maar and flee as soon as he retires. And yes, Zardari is the military's blue-eyed boy and I am sure Bilawal is the next PM. This country is hopeless.

 

[UP]

If Hafiz saab thinks overseas Pakistanis and mega companies will pour dollars in after eliminating IK - he is in for a day dream. 99% of overseas Pakistanis hate the two family businesses. They HATE them. Not a dollar will flow in for investment or to create wealth. People and companies have zero trust in the Dakoo movement thugs. These thugs can’t secure a billion from the IMF.

 

[daytrader]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Former Governor Punjab Latif Khosa affirms and condemns the false allegation of murder being pinned on me.<br><br>He further clarifies that Advocate Abdul Razzaq Shar was murdered because of personal enmity. <a href="https://t.co/s47xwAb3ED">pic.twitter.com/s47xwAb3ED</a></p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/1666669403247607812?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 8, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[LongHorn]

Given Khan's inflated ego and narcissism, he will not accept the proposal. If he does, that will be the end of his politics. He is as good as jailed. Once you are out of the electoral system, you are a nobody.

While they are 2 separate countries, Sonia Gandhi did exactly the same with Manmohan Singh as the frontman PM

 

[Major]

Something similar was implemented in Bangladesh by the then military as a "Minus 2" concept in 2007

They acted as if Hasina and K Zia were the main problems facing BD and removing them would improve the scene

What happened in reality was that it was planned in full cooperation with Delhi and was a "minus 1" masquerading as a Minus 2

3 years after all the drama, Khaleda Zia got punished far more than Hasina, and the latter came back and "won" the elections
The minus 2 formula was just a cover for Khaleda to effectively be kicked out and Hasina given command till her death

The gist of what I am saying is that just because the powers offer a "Minus 1" formula today to PTI doesnt mean they will honor even 10% of it in a year or two. It may turn out to be an excuse to implement something 180 degrees different from what is being proposed now

you jsut described pakistani politics in a nutshell

However, people like Altaf Hussain were disposed off completely, and Imran is being made another Altaf hussain.

Point is, if he was an influential person like Zardari, he can still be president and pull the strings. Zardari was the strongest President we ever had in a parliamentary govt

 

[saeedhk]

-Heated exchange between Khan and SMQ last night.

-SMQ told Khan to leave the country or take a step back and keep quiet.

-SMQ told Khan to step back so he could re-establish relationship with the military and seek forgiveness.

-Khan became agitated and told he will fight till his last breath.

-SMQ then left Zaman Park.

GEO News.

 

[Manager101]

-Heated exchange between Khan and SMQ last night.

-SMQ told Khan to leave the country or take a step back and keep quiet.

-SMQ told Khan to step back so he could re-establish relationship with the military and seek forgiveness.

-Khan became agitated and told he will fight till his last breath.

-SMQ then left Zaman Park.

GEO News.

Seems like Shah Mehmood Qureshi, Pervez Khattak and Asad Umar may form a seperate party as SMQ has an old rivalry with Tareen.

 

[Major]

PTI- inna lillahi wa inna lillahi rajiun

Zardari has destroyed this party and pmln with a single stroke

 

[greatest]

The country is in deep crisis economically. A dollar will be 400 next year and 500 in 2025 or after. The Dakoo movement has to pay $25 billion every year to pay off loans. These thugs don’t have the money to cover interest. Let them sink with the country and the best bet for IK will be to take a step back and let the thugs dig grave for themselves.

IK should take a break and leave. Reassess and learn from mistakes and make a comeback after few years. The establishment will need dollars to run their businesses and when the Dakoo movement will run out of gas - they will have to go back to IK. All is not lost. Nobody can save this country as of now. So let the thugs humiliate themselves.

Even if IK takes a break, goes into exile, comes back and is reinstalled as PM by the military establishment he will be a puppet/slave which IK doesn't want to be himself or the nation to be.

He got into politics and accepted a deal with the establishment to become the PM just to take them on but I guess he might never have thought how cruel and dirty the establishment can become despite having the whole nation on your side.

I and every Pakistani knows that Imran will never ever accept the establishment demands and be part of this corrupt system. He will never join hands will PML-N, PPP, JUI-F, etc and will surely not take orders from the top in how to run the country. The day he becomes part of the system he will be no less than Nawaz, Zardari and Fazl.

"You Either Die A Hero, Or You Live Long Enough To See Yourself Become The Villain"

 

[Major]

Even if IK takes a break, goes into exile, comes back and is reinstalled as PM by the military establishment he will be a puppet/slave which IK doesn't want to be himself or the nation to be.

He got into politics and accepted a deal with the establishment to become the PM just to take them on but I guess he might never have thought how cruel and dirty the establishment can become despite having the whole nation on your side.

I and every Pakistani knows that Imran will never ever accept the establishment demands and be part of this corrupt system. He will never join hands will PML-N, PPP, JUI-F, etc and will surely not take orders from the top in how to run the country. The day he becomes part of the system he will be no less than Nawaz, Zardari and Fazl.

"You Either Die A Hero, Or You Live Long Enough To See Yourself Become The Villain"

lol, he never took them on. He was sitting on their laps and following their orders.

Only when he was ousted did he tried to take them on and still failed cause his supporters only talk and do nothing

 

[Savak]

-Heated exchange between Khan and SMQ last night.

-SMQ told Khan to leave the country or take a step back and keep quiet.

-SMQ told Khan to step back so he could re-establish relationship with the military and seek forgiveness.

-Khan became agitated and told he will fight till his last breath.

-SMQ then left Zaman Park.

GEO News.

SMQ gave the correct advice in the circumstances. IK is playing harra kirri at this point

 

[saeedhk]

SMQ gave the correct advice in the circumstances. IK is playing harra kirri at this point

Yes. I agree.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

SMQ gave the correct advice in the circumstances. IK is playing harra kirri at this point

This is better, it is time Pakistani supporters of Bhutto and Sharifs took responsibility for their own parties instead of spending all their time crying about Imran Khan. Once he's out of the way, maybe we'll actually see posters giving practical solutions as to how Zardari/Sharif will progress the nation.

 

[IMMY69]

This is better, it is time Pakistani supporters of Bhutto and Sharifs took responsibility for their own parties instead of spending all their time crying about Imran Khan. Once he's out of the way, maybe we'll actually see posters giving practical solutions as to how Zardari/Sharif will progress the nation.

I'm sure Nawaz Sharif has been spending the last 2.5 years sitting on a bench in Hyde Park reading books on Economics and has all the knowledge in his mind to take Pakistan forward

 

[greatest]

lol, he never took them on. He was sitting on their laps and following their orders.

Only when he was ousted did he tried to take them on and still failed cause his supporters only talk and do nothing

That's what all the political parties have been doing to get into power. Without the blessings of the establishment no one has ever become a PM.
As you said.. First sit on their lap, follow their orders and then when you have the power of the people..take them on. Nawaz too tried doing this but he and his buddies always make a compromise either to save their wealth, politics and their reputations.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I'm sure Nawaz Sharif has been spending the last 2.5 years sitting on a bench in Hyde Park reading books on Economics and has all the knowledge in his mind to take Pakistan forward

Pakistan needs to be taken forward by Pakistanis. As outsiders you and I can only give our views, but I am always willing to admit that those who live there should choose their leaders. If they don't want Khan and they prefer Zardari/Sharif then they have to support them instead of whining constantly. Either that or get on a dinghy and take your luck riding the seas to Europe.

 

[IMMY69]

Pakistan needs to be taken forward by Pakistanis. As outsiders you and I can only give our views, but I am always willing to admit that those who live there should choose their leaders. If they don't want Khan and they prefer Zardari/Sharif then they have to support them instead of whining constantly. Either that or get on a dinghy and take your luck riding the seas to Europe.

Oh I agree completely, only thing is that the people don't really have the chance to choose their leaders

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Oh I agree completely, only thing is that the people don't really have the chance to choose their leaders

The people don't, but the local spokesmen on this site for them do. I am thinking in particular of posters such as [MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION], [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] etc.

Either you believe in democracy or you don't. You can't rejoice in the removal of your PM just because you didn't like him personally.

 

[Major]

The people don't, but the local spokesmen on this site for them do. I am thinking in particular of posters such as [MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION], [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] etc.

Either you believe in democracy or you don't. You can't rejoice in the removal of your PM just because you didn't like him personally.

its ok for UK to remove, but if Pakistan removes a pm than overseas cry about undemocratic norms

 

[MenInG]

Working very hard this government

==

The Islamabad High Court (IHC) on Thursday granted PTI Chairman Imran Khan protective bail in a case registered against him for the murder of senior Supreme Court lawyer Abdul Razzaq Shar — who was shot dead in Quetta earlier this week — for two weeks.

The order was passed by a division bench comprising IHC Chief Justice Aamer Farooq and Justice Miangul Hassan Aurangzeb.

Shar was shot dead by unidentified assailants near Quetta’s Alamo Chowk on Airport Road on June 6. Police said he was on his way to the Balochistan High Court when his vehicle came under attack by unknown men armed with automatic weapons. The lawyer received 15 bullet injuries and died on the spot.

The government and the PTI had traded blame over the incident, with both sides accusing the other of having a role in the killing.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

its ok for UK to remove, but if Pakistan removes a pm than overseas cry about undemocratic norms

It's not ok for the UK to remove, how many times has it happened in our history? Now compare that with yours. This sort of risible comparison just shows that you are not coming from a place of sincerity, neither do you truly believe your leader of choice will deliver progress to Pakistan.

 

[the Great Khan]

-Heated exchange between Khan and SMQ last night.

-SMQ told Khan to leave the country or take a step back and keep quiet.

-SMQ told Khan to step back so he could re-establish relationship with the military and seek forgiveness.

-Khan became agitated and told he will fight till his last breath.

-SMQ then left Zaman Park.

GEO News.

Didn't realise Geo were in the meeting.. are the part of PTI?

 

[IMMY69]

its ok for UK to remove, but if Pakistan removes a pm than overseas cry about undemocratic norms

Where is the comparison?
A British PM was removed and another MP was voted in as PM by the same party that had won the general election.

 

[Major]

Where is the comparison?
A British PM was removed and another MP was voted in as PM by the same party that had won the general election.

Well, thats the thing, you didnt had the seats to vote in someone

 

[Major]

It's not ok for the UK to remove, how many times has it happened in our history? Now compare that with yours. This sort of risible comparison just shows that you are not coming from a place of sincerity, neither do you truly believe your leader of choice will deliver progress to Pakistan.

this is the first time in Pakistan someone was removed through VONC.

Our issues for now are economic

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

this is the first time in Pakistan someone was removed through VONC.

Our issues for now are economic

But now you must believe your PPP leader will deliver Pakistan to prosperity right?

 

[IMMY69]

Well, thats the thing, you didnt had the seats to vote in someone

and why was that?

and don't say because they didn't have the peoples vote because that would be contradicting your whole argument about Establishment/Army being the ones in control.

 

[IMMY69]

this is the first time in Pakistan someone was removed through VONC.

Our issues for now are economic

The issues are Economic?
So you back those that looted the country to actually get the economy back on track?

 

[the Great Khan]

The issues are Economic?
So you back those that looted the country to actually get the economy back on track?

Ask him how Sindh is going and he'll dissappear after claiming Black Zero explained everything..

 

[Savak]

It appears IK is paranoid and doesn't trust anyone anymore. Can't blame him, this will happen to anyone if his entire senior leadership that he has cultivated for 10-30 years just end up abandoning him in a jiffy.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Today I have broken the world record, not in cricket, but by having to appear in 20 cases, which is a new record. Cases ranging from murder to terrorism to sedition.<br><br>Amazingly when I was confined in NAB jail, 9 more criminal cases were slapped on me.<br><br>Having always respect the…</p>— Imran Khan (@ImranKhanPTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI/status/1666849457869139971?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 8, 2023</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[wasim-fan]

lol, he never took them on. He was sitting on their laps and following their orders.

Only when he was ousted did he tried to take them on and still failed cause his supporters only talk and do nothing

Indeed. And he is not requesting them to withdraw from domestic politics. He is only asking them to be placed back on that lap. That's the tabdeeli.

 

[daytrader]

Why are authorities so sure Qureshi leading PTI?
According to a PTI leader, Imran Khan will not minus himself at this stage

PTI Chairman Imran Khan and party’s Vice Chairman Shah Mehmood Qureshi do not really like each other but, as luck would have it, the latter is the most likely option, acceptable to those who matter, to lead the PTI in the absence of the former. There are no confirmed reports about Qureshi’s interactions with powerful quarters during his post-May 9 stay in the Adiala Jail under the MPO (Maintenance of Public Order) but there are talks within important government circles about Qureshi leading the PTI. “Shah Mehmood Qureshi will lead the PTI minus Imran Khan,” an official source said.

When asked about the reported bitter meeting between the two on Wednesday at the Zaman Park residence of Imran Khan, he said, “It does not matter.” According to another official source, “Our information is that both Khan and Qureshi do not like each other but they are together for their respective political interests.” Interestingly, Qureshi is also suspected within the PTI of having contacts with the relevant quarters yet Imran Khan recently announced that in case of his arrest, Qureshi would lead the party. Imran Khan fears that he can be arrested anytime. With his arrest, it is said, the minus-Imran Khan process will technically start, paving the way for the emergence of Qureshi as PTI’s head.

According to a PTI leader, Imran Khan will not minus himself at this stage and before his arrest, to save the party from further desertions of its second and third-tier leaders. Qureshi, the PTI leader said on condition of not being named, can have the lead role only after Khan’s arrest or conviction in any case. Qureshi, it is said, may not be a popular leader for PTI followers and ranks and file but his acceptability to the powers that be, makes him most suitable to save the party from further damage. Even within the PTI, there is a realisation, in view of the present tough situation for the party, that the likes of Murad Saeed, who according to Imran Khan will be the future leader of PTI, will also not be acceptable.

...
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/1078389-why-are-authorities-so-sure-qureshi-leading-pti

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My latest EXCLUSIVE: Pakistan ex-PM Imran Khan says defying U.S. led to his downfall<br><br>In my 2nd interview w <a href="https://twitter.com/ImranKhanPTI?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ImranKhanPTI</a>, <a href="https://twitter.com/PTIofficial?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@PTIofficial</a> chief defends non-aligned approach to international affairs & warns nation is on dark path to instability & martial law<a href="https://t.co/MWljqY2KCd">https://t.co/MWljqY2KCd</a></p>— &#55349;&#56651;om &#55349;&#56646;'ℂonnor (@ShaolinTom) <a href="https://twitter.com/ShaolinTom/status/1667458149987565568?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 10, 2023</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[rpant_gabba]

Indeed. And he is not requesting them to withdraw from domestic politics. He is only asking them to be placed back on that lap. That's the tabdeeli.

Damn. Harsh. But not evidence to this is overwhelming.

I mean, where does he go from here? Establishment has essentially, for lack of a better word neutralized him.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If there is someone who deserves the title of modern-day Joseph Goebbels, chief propagandist for the German Nazi Party, is none other than Imran Khan. He is certainly perfecting the art of lying. <br><br>How convenient of IK to forget how he incited his cult followers to violence over… <a href="https://t.co/9rGn1KPGNc">https://t.co/9rGn1KPGNc</a></p>— Shehbaz Sharif (@CMShehbaz) <a href="https://twitter.com/CMShehbaz/status/1668861640861949953?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 14, 2023</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[moghul]

IK is a brave man, will not accept any dictation from establishment, no way.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If there is someone who deserves the title of modern-day Joseph Goebbels, chief propagandist for the German Nazi Party, is none other than Imran Khan. He is certainly perfecting the art of lying. <br><br>How convenient of IK to forget how he incited his cult followers to violence over… <a href="https://t.co/9rGn1KPGNc">https://t.co/9rGn1KPGNc</a></p>— Shehbaz Sharif (@CMShehbaz) <a href="https://twitter.com/CMShehbaz/status/1668861640861949953?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 14, 2023</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'd be surprised if Shebaz Sharif even knew who Joseph Goebbels was, let alone how to spell it. Someone must be writing his twitter material for him.

 

[daytrader]

US has no stance on ‘private citizen’ Imran: State Dept

The State Department has said former Pakistani prime minister Imran Khan “is a private citizen, and the US government does not have a stance” on private citizens.

At a regular news briefing on Thursday afternoon, journalists pointed out that the Pakistani government was advising news outlets “not even to mention Mr Khan’s name” in their news bulletins and talk shows.

“So, would you like to say something about (how this impacts press freedom) and the public’s right to access information?” one of the journalists asked.

“I would say that we generally urge all governments to respect the role of journalists and media. We believe the press performs a critical function in democratic societies,” Matthew Miller, the State Department’s spokesperson, said.

“We expect that journalists covering the events in Pakistan should all be allowed to do their work.”

A free and independent press, he said, was a vital, core institution that “undergirds healthy democracies by ensuring that electorates can make informed decisions and holding government officials accountable”.

When asked what is the current US stance towards Imran Khan, Mr Miller said: “He’s a private citizen. We don’t generally have stances towards private (citizens).”

When a journalist reminded him that Mr Khan was a former prime minister who “claims that defying US policies led to his downfall”, the State Department official said: “I would say that we’ve spoken to this in the past. Those allegations are absolutely false. Pakistani politics are a matter for the Pakistani people to decide, pursuant to their own constitution and laws. They are not a matter for the US government.”

...
https://www.dawn.com/news/1760219/us-has-no-stance-on-private-citizen-imran-state-dept