Sincere Pakistan cricket fans should boycott this regime

[BouncerGuy]

Please welcome your new member of the selection committee. Where is the merit in his appointment?

This guy is the new Pakistan team data analyst. Either PCB should provide some valid reasons for his appointment or else this is a slap on the face of 200 million Pakistanis and a mockery of meritocracy. Shame on the PCB.

 

[160KPH]

I remember multiple boycott threads because of Rizwan’s selection and how certain posters said they would root against the PCT. I also remember commenting on the threads that I was waiting for them to actually boycott - they never actually would.

I almost never agree with Mamoon but it’s funny to see him troll some of you guys and watching the reaction because we have had to sit through years of crazy conspiracies, meltdowns, and threats of boycotts over completely made up things.

 

[160KPH]

I don’t think Babar and Rizwan have fans such as this, completely dismissive of reality.

Babar is criticized for his slow batting and mediocre captaincy, even by his most ardent fans.

Rizwan aswell for his show-man theatrics nowadays and for not having improved even the slightest in terms of strike-rate.

However, Imad Wasim’s fans have completely forgotten how awful he has been at international level and somehow elevate their hero to the same status as two cricketers who have actually won a lot of games for their country.

Imad has the same stats as Nawaz, who no one wants to see in the team. He has as many match-winning performances as Nawaz, who no one wants to see in the team. Infact Nawaz’s best performances have come against better opposition compared to Imad.

So much noise for someone who doesn’t really matter. Imad Wasim’s output will never determine if Pakistan does well at the T20 World Cup.

I doubt even his biggest fans here remember he was part of the 2021 T20WC team, where Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen, Asif Ali (lol), Hafeez, Malik, Fakhar, Haris etc were all better performers and determined Pakistan’s way to the semi-final.

This is such a great post.

His fans are going to such extremes to try to rewrite his career. He was extremely average in the T20 WC and had almost no impact. Shadab took 4 wickets in that SF we played against Australia in 2021 and bowled at an economy of just 6.5. If Imad Wasim had done that, his fans would have tried to use that performance to keep him in the team for the next 10 years.

 

[160KPH]

No one ever boycotts, I’ve seen the boycott threats for maybe the past 10 years and no one actually does it.

 

[mominsaigol]

No one ever boycotts, I’ve seen the boycott threats for maybe the past 10 years and no one actually does it.

It's not even possible to boycott mate. This nation itself is divided.

Only way to boycott is if you have a nation like China, China is always united and are adamant on just having their own products and not cooperating with the outside world. They want everyone else to use their products.

For example, China tries its best to boycott amazon which is why amazon China is the only branch of amazon that yields a net negative and not a net positive, Instead China uses alibaba, Ali express and temu.

Similarly China has boycotted Google and instead uses baidoo. WhatsApp is also boycotted and so is Facebook and Instagram, they use wechat which is a mix of all 3 apps and is the Chinese version essentially.

Similarly in sports China boycotts almost anyone local from participating in any sport that's not Chinese invented, if you're Asian outside China sure, but if you got a Chinese passport then fat chance in hell.

Pakistani people does not have China mentality, their won't be any boycott, hell they couldn't even boycott youtube or Facebook properly when both these apps were making fun of Islam and had anti Islam concept, they legit gave up eventually.

 

[Caved12]

No one ever boycotts, I’ve seen the boycott threats for maybe the past 10 years and no one actually does it.

So true! Just a way of getting attention here. Don’t understand what Imad did wrong? Imad set the Psl on fire last year and this, yet he is getting no respect from posters who talk about selecting players on merit. All this happened because Imad worked on his game and improved as a player in the last 2 years.

 

[hafizexpress]

Although I support Amir and Imad's inclusions, and am also aware of their selfishness, but I've had an absolute thrill watching @Mamoon single-handedly debate in this thread

 

[hafizexpress]

I don't like the people in this regime. I was distraught seeing the names on the selection committee. But other than those management members, I'm loving seeing the new captain take charge. This is separate to the "regime". This is a captain taking responsibility and forming a squad that he genuinely thinks can benefit the team. It's not always about the performers in PSL and domestic cricket, but rather the potential of each player.

 

[HARKS]

So , now Imad wasim can play multiple leagues but all other players is allowed only 2 , pakistan team is already fragmented , way to go to add more oil in to fire

 

[Energy]

I agree with the toxic stuff and the opportunist nature of Imad and Amir. And it is true they will disappear after the World Cup irrespective of the results.

However, with having them in the team is actually giving Pakistan a bigger chance of winning the tournament. It is a fact that their replacements, i.e. Nawaz and Rauf/Wasim are largely inferior. So why not make use of the toxic players who can deliver on the field, over the good students who succumb under pressure in every match.

For the guys who are slogging in the domestics, they will be picked after the World Cup anyway and it's their time to shine then.

 

[Energy]

Please welcome your new member of the selection committee. Where is the merit in his appointment?

This guy is the new Pakistan team data analyst. Either PCB should provide some valid reasons for his appointment or else this is a slap on the face of 200 million Pakistanis and a mockery of meritocracy. Shame on the PCB.

No wonder there's hardly any data analysis that comes out of the PCB. Even a power point graph will send shivers down the spine of the dinosaurs.

This Bilal guy seems to be care-taking for all the departments of the government, lol. Looks like a solid all-rounder.

 

[MenInG]

Lots of personal irrelevant stuff deleted

@Rana @topspin

Watch what you guys are posting.

 

[pratiktc]

To be honest, Pak doesn't need Imad or Amir.
The bowling attack (Shaheen, Naseem, Rauf) is good enough without them, it's the batters that need to stand up and perform.

It is counterproductive for Pak to keep going back to TTFs like these. Might as well try out new guys

 

[mominsaigol]

To be honest, Pak doesn't need Imad or Amir.
The bowling attack (Shaheen, Naseem, Rauf) is good enough without them, it's the batters that need to stand up and perform.

It is counterproductive for Pak to keep going back to TTFs like these. Might as well try out new guys

No it isn't, Rauf isn't even around anymore and he's a run machine, he got exposed this cup. Someone like mohammad Ali needs to be given a go over him now as Ali was the best psl performer.

 

[Mamoon]

This post is such a lie.

Yuvi outright admitted he was out of form even before the 2014 cup started and didn't know why the team selected him as yuvi felt he needed to improve as he wasn't fully fit, he outright said it multiple times that he was low on confidence, how he was clearly struggling and he felt India made a mistake.

Before the 2023 world cup, Babar didn't say he was low on confidence, he and his team made statements on how their the best in the world and after that mighty 100 against NZ c team and 150 against Nepal, everyone was going off on how it was a goat innings.

Yuvi didn't score 50 of 40, He scored 11 of 21 desperately trying to hit but genuinely felt like a tail ender out their. He tried his best but was unable to, and he was honest about it multiple times.

Babar on the other hand was coming from a mighty 150 and all of the sudden his form vanishes overnight? In the world cup? Lol.

These snail pace 50's that babar scores is massively different from yuvi genuinely being unable to perform.

Where was this so called i have lost form before the world cup or asia cup? Why did it happen straight after the nepal game?

Secondly don't ever compare what yuvi does to what Babar does, one guy has gave Stuart broad a permanent nightmare, the other guy gets nightmares from rashid Khan and kuldeep yadav.

So the problem is not playing selfishly. The problem is that Babar didn’t declare his poor form and didn’t play sympathy card like Yuvraj did in 2014.

You can play selfishly and poorly as long as you make a public announcement beforehand.

Beautiful.

 

[kingusama92]

To be honest, Pak doesn't need Imad or Amir.
The bowling attack (Shaheen, Naseem, Rauf) is good enough without them, it's the batters that need to stand up and perform.

It is counterproductive for Pak to keep going back to TTFs like these. Might as well try out new guys

Rauf's struggles opened the door for Amir otherwise he was completely shut out.

That third pacer role is definitely there for the taking whether it's Rauf, Amir, Wasim Jr, or Ali.

 

[mominsaigol]

So the problem is not playing selfishly. The problem is that Babar didn’t declare his poor form and didn’t play sympathy card like Yuvraj did in 2014.

You can play selfishly and poorly as long as you make a public announcement beforehand.

Beautiful.

Yuvi didn't play selfishly, he didnt make a 50 of 40, he made 11 of 21 desperately trying his hardest to hit but wasn't able to.

Him failing miserably is not the same as babar soft scoring and having no impact.

You're falsely equating a player failing to a player playing selfishly, big difference.

Like our Pakistan 2019 vs Pakistan 2023 discussion, you ended up brining up 2018 and 2019 performances when 2018 and 2019 odi performances did not include the exact same team, players like rizwan and other players like faheem ashraf were being tried out.

So don't know why you're falsely equating stats, the whole argument should have been a player comparison, and you lost the argument the moment you admitted shadab amd nawaz were out of it, Babar and imam were out of it, and that the 2023 selected the wrong individuals due to ego problems.

 

[Statpadder Inc]

So the problem is not playing selfishly. The problem is that Babar didn’t declare his poor form and didn’t play sympathy card like Yuvraj did in 2014.

You can play selfishly and poorly as long as you make a public announcement beforehand.

Beautiful.

Yuvraj wasn't being selfish, he was just crap. He didn't have the ability at that time to play well, the dude was struggling to put bat on ball.

A selfish innings would be something like a 22 of 21.

What yuvi did wasn't selfish because it hurt his stats

 

[Mamoon]

Yuvi didn't play selfishly, he didnt make a 50 of 40, he made 11 of 21 desperately trying his hardest to hit but wasn't able to.

Him failing miserably is not the same as babar soft scoring and having no impact.

You're falsely equating a player failing to a player playing selfishly, big difference.

Yuvraj wasn't being selfish, he was just crap. He didn't have the ability at that time to play well, the dude was struggling to put bat on ball.

A selfish innings would be something like a 22 of 21.

What yuvi did wasn't selfish because it hurt his stats

Who makes the rules of when an innings is selfish and when a batsman is struggling?

People play the “selfish” card when they don’t like a player. The fact is that there is absolutely no way you can prove that a player was being selfish.

What should be the runs to balls ratio for an innings to be selfish vs an innings that was a selfless struggle?

40 in 50 is selfish, 22 in 21 is selfish bur 11 out of 21 is a struggle.

Sounds great, now provide details of how many runs in how many balls will keep you in selfish zone and how many runs and how many balls will keep you in the selfless but struggling zone?

What is the threshold of selfishness and selflessness in terms of number of runs scored and number of balls faced. If there is an overlap, then confirm the number of runs and balls for the overlap.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Please, no more perosnal conflict. If you cannot talk about the topic of the thread, then you should post in some other thread. Do not derail the thread.

 

[mominsaigol]

Who makes the rules of when an innings is selfish and when a batsman is struggling?

People play the “selfish” card when they don’t like a player. The fact is that there is absolutely no way you can prove that a player was being selfish.

What should be the runs to balls ratio for an innings to be selfish vs an innings that was a selfless struggle?

40 in 50 is selfish, 22 in 21 is selfish bur 11 out of 21 is a struggle.

Sounds great, now provide details of how many runs in how many balls will keep you in selfish zone and how many runs and how many balls will keep you in the selfless but struggling zone?

What is the threshold of selfishness and selflessness in terms of number of runs scored and number of balls faced. If there is an overlap, then confirm the number of runs and balls for the overlap.

I didn't proclaim anything, you confidently proclaimed yuvi's innings was selfish and I corrected you, then you proceeded with this rules argument.

It's your burden of proof to provide evidence as to why it was, you're shifting the burden of proof on me, hence another falcious argument.

If you're claiming the rules cannot exist and aren't decided then you cannot confidently proclaim fam.

 

[Statpadder Inc]

Who makes the rules of when an innings is selfish and when a batsman is struggling?

People play the “selfish” card when they don’t like a player. The fact is that there is absolutely no way you can prove that a player was being selfish.

What should be the runs to balls ratio for an innings to be selfish vs an innings that was a selfless struggle?

40 in 50 is selfish, 22 in 21 is selfish bur 11 out of 21 is a struggle.

Sounds great, now provide details of how many runs in how many balls will keep you in selfish zone and how many runs and how many balls will keep you in the selfless but struggling zone?

What is the threshold of selfishness and selflessness in terms of number of runs scored and number of balls faced. If there is an overlap, then confirm the number of runs and balls for the overlap.

Do you know the meaning of selfish? How did scoring 11 of 21 help uv in anyway, how did it help his personal stats?

There's a diff between being selfish and terrible, he just couldn't score, he didn't deliberately try to play safe to boost his avg

 

[AMSS]

There's a diff between being selfish and terrible

How can you be so sure he was terrible and not selfish? If UV knew he was terrible then wasn't it selfish of him to continue playing?

 

[Statpadder Inc]

How can you be so sure he was terrible and not selfish? If UV knew he was terrible then wasn't it selfish of him to continue playing?

Man yuvi just couldn't connect the bat with the ball, he was in cricketing hell.

I would consider an innings to be selfish when it's done to preserve your spot in team or boost your stats.

I don't think uv innings did either of those things, he wasn't trying to play it safe like rizbar, he just couldn't play.

 

[PakEngFan]

This is such a great post.

His fans are going to such extremes to try to rewrite his career. He was extremely average in the T20 WC and had almost no impact. Shadab took 4 wickets in that SF we played against Australia in 2021 and bowled at an economy of just 6.5. If Imad Wasim had done that, his fans would have tried to use that performance to keep him in the team for the next 10 years.

You are being kind with 10 years they would have used it for 100 years and stated something along the line our greatest all rounder ever perhaps better than Imran khan

 

[Rana]

Please welcome your new member of the selection committee. Where is the merit in his appointment?

This guy is the new Pakistan team data analyst. Either PCB should provide some valid reasons for his appointment or else this is a slap on the face of 200 million Pakistanis and a mockery of meritocracy. Shame on the PCB.

Data analyst job is overrated. A data analyst won’t necessarily give you all the answers to make you a true number 1 side.

Misbah used data provided to him to argue Babar and Rizwan are more clinical at optimising the powerplay than Fakhar and Sharjeel

It was a wrong call, and in the long run has hurt Pakistan massively

 

[daytrader]

Data analyst job is overrated. A data analyst won’t necessarily give you all the answers to make you a true number 1 side.

Misbah used data provided to him to argue Babar and Rizwan are more clinical at optimising the powerplay than Fakhar and Sharjeel

It was a wrong call, and in the long run has hurt Pakistan massively

For a cricket nation that is deteriorating at a fast pace, Misbah made the best call possible. Babar and Rizwan cover our weaknesses and its a miracle that we have those 2. We suck at tests since Misbah left. In ODIs we are hardly competitive and have started losing to teams like Afghanistan. T20s are our only saving grace. If it wasn't for RizBar, we wouldn't even make knockouts there

 

[Rana]

For a cricket nation that is deteriorating at a fast pace, Misbah made the best call possible. Babar and Rizwan cover our weaknesses and its a miracle that we have those 2. We suck at tests since Misbah left. In ODIs we are hardly competitive and have started losing to teams like Afghanistan. T20s are our only saving grace. If it wasn't for RizBar, we wouldn't even make knockouts there

Ah well,

Let’s see if the new data analyst can find evidence to support scoring 15 odd 21 in the powerplay, which then converts to 50 off 40 is a remedy for success

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

LOL. Coming from a poster who even Indian posters celebrate as a brother in arms.

I'm no fan of the PCB but are we really going to get a genuine opinion from a self confessed Pakistan hater?

 

[daytrader]

Ah well,

Let’s see if the new data analyst can find evidence to support scoring 15 odd 21 in the powerplay, which then converts to 50 off 40 is a remedy for success

If he's a proper data analyst than he would find that Pakistan is a team that likes to finish with a bang. The last 5 overs for us are more important than the powerplay. If we lose early wickets we tend to collapse

 

[mominsaigol]

For a cricket nation that is deteriorating at a fast pace, Misbah made the best call possible. Babar and Rizwan cover our weaknesses and its a miracle that we have those 2. We suck at tests since Misbah left. In ODIs we are hardly competitive and have started losing to teams like Afghanistan. T20s are our only saving grace. If it wasn't for RizBar, we wouldn't even make knockouts there

We weren't even competitive in odi during the misbah era. Wanna know what sarfraz achieved that misbah couldn't? An icc trophy .

 

[Rajdeep]

I hear OPs concerns and they seem genuine enough. Only a true supporter and well wisher of a cricket team can pen down the corncerns the way OP has done. I hereby urge mr. @Mamoon to boycott Pak cricket team until there is a regime change and his concerns are addressed. Meanwhile I invite him to support Indian cricket team in the upcoming T20 world cup.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I hear OPs concerns and they seem genuine enough. Only a true supporter and well wisher of a cricket team can pen down the corncerns the way OP has done. I hereby urge mr. @Mamoon to boycott Pak cricket team until there is a regime change and his concerns are addressed. Meanwhile I invite him to support Indian cricket team in the upcoming T20 world cup.

Pretty sure you are one of the Indians who I was talking about celebrating the OP as a brother in arms.

I don't think you have anything to worry about on that score, the support will be there!

 

[Rana]

If he's a proper data analyst than he would find that Pakistan is a team that likes to finish with a bang. The last 5 overs for us are more important than the powerplay. If we lose early wickets we tend to collapse

Ah yes,

The data analyst will find that the last 5 overs are only important for Pakistan and not the rest of the world.

The same data analyst will find that the first 6 overs can be taken casually by Pakistan whereas the rest of the world will not take them casually.

This is the remedy for success, amazing analysis by the data analyst.

 

[160KPH]

Data analyst job is overrated. A data analyst won’t necessarily give you all the answers to make you a true number 1 side.

Misbah used data provided to him to argue Babar and Rizwan are more clinical at optimising the powerplay than Fakhar and Sharjeel

It was a wrong call, and in the long run has hurt Pakistan massively

Once you again you have no clue what you’re talking about.

Islamabad United just won the PSL after a long time largely because they hired Mike Hesson as head coach this year - an extremely data driven decision maker. He’s also one of New Zealand’s most successful coaches ever:

'I want context to be surrounded by data' - Hesson looks to build on Dean Jones' template

The United head coach speaks about the importance of being flexible, their numbers-driven approach and more

www.espncricinfo.com

And then the other team in the final, Multan, had hired Nathan Leamon as an analyst and Andy Flower as head coach in 2020. As soon as they were selected, MS became one of the most consistent cricket franchises in the world, they made the playoffs for the first time, won a final, and then made 3 more consecutive finals. Nathan Leamon is the cofounder of CricViz and also the lead analyst for England’s white ball teams. He was there for England’s white ball revolution alongside Eoin Morgan who is also an extremely analytical captain.

All of the best teams in the world hire the absolute best data analysts available.

 

[160KPH]

Maybe @Rana is right, and all of the top franchise teams in the world and top international cricket teams in the world are the ones who are wrong

 

[daytrader]

We weren't even competitive in odi during the misbah era. Wanna know what sarfraz achieved that misbah couldn't? An icc trophy .

He won the Asia cup as captain. And he suffered a setback in the 2015 World Cup where media cry babies like Afridi and YK were thrusted into the team. Kind of like what's happening right now with Imad and Amir. It's deja vu, but ofcourse in the World you live in, you will find a way to blame Rizwan and Babar instead just like how you blame Misbah

 

[Rana]

Once you again you have no clue what you’re talking about.

Islamabad United just won the PSL after a long time largely because they hired Mike Hesson as head coach this year - an extremely data driven decision maker. He’s also one of New Zealand’s most successful coaches ever:

'I want context to be surrounded by data' - Hesson looks to build on Dean Jones' template

The United head coach speaks about the importance of being flexible, their numbers-driven approach and more

www.espncricinfo.com

And then the other team in the final, Multan, had hired Nathan Leamon as an analyst and Andy Flower as head coach in 2020. As soon as they were selected, MS became one of the most consistent cricket franchises in the world, they made the playoffs for the first time, won a final, and then made 3 more consecutive finals. Nathan Leamon is the cofounder of CricViz and also the lead analyst for England’s white ball teams. He was there for England’s white ball revolution alongside Eoin Morgan who is also an extremely analytical captain.

All of the best teams in the world hire the absolute best data analysts available.

Yes I have no clue what I am talking about

That’s the reason why Misbah used data to employ two anchors to open the batting in T20.

Whereas Hesson who also uses Data uses two guys who have a balls per six ratio of approximately 10-15 balls to open the batting for his sides

Both Misbah and Hesson are comparable and similar

Yet I have no clue what I am talking about

 

[Bewal Express]

I hear OPs concerns and they seem genuine enough. Only a true supporter and well wisher of a cricket team can pen down the corncerns the way OP has done. I hereby urge mr. @Mamoon to boycott Pak cricket team until there is a regime change and his concerns are addressed. Meanwhile I invite him to support Indian cricket team in the upcoming T20 world cup.

He already does. Where have you been for the last decade. The guy was angry we won the CT in 2017.

 

[160KPH]

Yes I have no clue what I am talking about

That’s the reason why Misbah used data to employ two anchors to open the batting in T20.

Whereas Hesson who also uses Data uses two guys who have a balls per six ratio of approximately 10-15 balls to open the batting for his sides

Both Misbah and Hesson are comparable and similar

Yet I have no clue what I am talking about

You said that the data analyst job is overrated.

The fact that Mike Hesson is way better at analyzing data than Misbah shows how it’s not at all overrated and it’s very important to select the right person for data analysis for modern cricketing teams.

 

[Rana]

You said that the data analyst job is overrated.

The fact that Mike Hesson is way better at analyzing data than Misbah shows how it’s not at all overrated and it’s very important to select the right person for data analysis for modern cricketing teams.

Yes go on, use that as one of the many lies I spread here.

 

[mominsaigol]

He won the Asia cup as captain. And he suffered a setback in the 2015 World Cup where media cry babies like Afridi and YK were thrusted into the team. Kind of like what's happening right now with Imad and Amir. It's deja vu, but ofcourse in the World you live in, you will find a way to blame Rizwan and Babar instead just like how you blame Misbah

Asia cup isn't an icc trophy.

It's not my fault sarfraz did it better in every which way possible.

 

[160KPH]

Yes go on, use that as one of the many lies I spread here.

It’s not a lie just a disagreement.

Misbah is not a modern coach. People like Mike Hesson revolutionized New Zealand cricket, partially because they understand data analysis.

 

[160KPH]

Asia cup isn't an icc trophy.

It's not my fault sarfraz did it better in every which way possible.

Sarfraz was a good captain, especially in limited overs cricket.

Misbah was a solid captain in Test cricket in the subcontinent.

But a captain is also only as good as the tools we have. That 2017 Champion’s Trophy team was pretty well rounded. Back then Shadab Khan and Hasan Ali were also bowling very good.

 

[daytrader]

Asia cup isn't an icc trophy.

It's not my fault sarfraz did it better in every which way possible.

Sarfraz was a good captain no doubt. He had lots of backing from Misbah and the two were very similar. Sarfraz though had a better team and as you said it's a team game

 

[Mamoon]

I didn't proclaim anything, you confidently proclaimed yuvi's innings was selfish and I corrected you, then you proceeded with this rules argument.

It's your burden of proof to provide evidence as to why it was, you're shifting the burden of proof on me, hence another falcious argument.

If you're claiming the rules cannot exist and aren't decided then you cannot confidently proclaim fam.

The fact that you are hiding behind “burden of proof” shows that you have bottled it.

You claimed, and very confidently, that 40 runs in 50 balls is selfish but 11 in 21 is a selfless struggle.

My question is very simple - What is the threshold of selfishness and selflessness in terms of number of runs scored and number of balls faced.

If there is an overlap, then confirm the number of runs and balls for the overlap.

You used runs scored x balls faced as a metric to proof that one innings was selfish and the other wasn’t but it appears that you can’t back it up now.

 

[160KPH]

Sarfraz was a good captain no doubt. He had lots of backing from Misbah and the two were very similar. Sarfraz though had a better team and as you said it's a team game

Yeah Ricky Ponting was average in terms of captaincy skills and even lost Australia a match due to a terrible decision at the toss. But he’s also one of the most successful captains of all time because he had one of the best teams of all time.

People overrate the importance of captains and underrate the importance of having a good set up in the selection committee, analysts, and coach. In modern cricket, many of the most important decisions are made from the dug out, not on the field.

 

[Mamoon]

Do you know the meaning of selfish? How did scoring 11 of 21 help uv in anyway, how did it help his personal stats?

There's a diff between being selfish and terrible, he just couldn't score, he didn't deliberately try to play safe to boost his avg

You claimed that 22 in 21 would be an example of selfish innings, 11 and 21 isn’t.

You are clearly a subject matter expert in selfishness so please explain to novices like myself what is the threshold of selfishness and selflessness in terms of number of runs scored and number of balls faced. If there is an overlap, then confirm the number of runs and balls for the overlap.

 

[daytrader]

That’s the reason why Misbah used data to employ two anchors to open the batting in T20.

Whereas Hesson who also uses Data uses two guys who have a balls per six ratio of approximately 10-15 balls to open the batting for his sides

When did Misbah use two anchors for ISLU? He always relied on foreign power hitters. Misbah was analyzing data before it became a thing in Pak cricket Hesson just continued the template Misbah provided

 

[daytrader]

People overrate the importance of captains and underrate the importance of having a good set up in the selection committee, analysts, and coach. In modern cricket, many of the most important decisions are made from the dug out, not on the field.

Agreed but this requires stability. Sadly which we have been lacking ever since Misbah resigned

 

[160KPH]

Agreed but this requires stability. Sadly which we have been lacking ever since Misbah resigned

Yeah professionalism and consistency in our structure is also something we massively lack in our cricket infrastructure.

We just need to select a competent coach, selection committee, and analysts and at least give them a 1-3 year period to make decisions before we can accurately judge the results.

Instead we have meltdowns after one series, change our entire structure, and start am over again.

 

[Mamoon]

PCB going back to retired, washed players who made it abundantly clear that they don’t care about playing for Pakistan cricket shows that they have no faith in domestic performers and firmly believe that there is a talent crisis in Pakistan.

It is one thing for a fan or an observer to make this assessment and it is a fair assessment, but the PCB can absolutely not project this image and send this message but they have done exactly that by going backwards.

It is a very sad state of affairs for domestic cricketers and well-wishers of Pakistan cricket.

 

[JaDed]

Blockbuster thread say what you want we all love such threads.

Pak cricket is known to have retirement taken and untaken.
Everyone is MJordan in the making.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

Data analyst job is overrated. A data analyst won’t necessarily give you all the answers to make you a true number 1 side.

Misbah used data provided to him to argue Babar and Rizwan are more clinical at optimising the powerplay than Fakhar and Sharjeel

It was a wrong call, and in the long run has hurt Pakistan massively

Data analysis dominates almost all high level sport — be it football (Arsenal have an entire team pouring over the stats after each game, to basketball to cricket.
This is a superb book :

Hitting Against the Spin: How Cricket Really Works Paperback – 21 April 2022​

by Nathan Leamon (Author), Ben Jones (Author)

which I would recommend to anyone interested in how cricket really works nowadays.

Your gripe may well be with the decisions that were made following the input of the data — decisions are subjective and open to human bias, but to suggest data analysis is overrated is frankly silly.

 

[Rana]

This is an ill judged post.
Data analysis dominates almost all high level sport — be it football (Arsenal have an entire team pouring over the stats after each game, to basketball to cricket.
This is a superb book :

Hitting Against the Spin: How Cricket Really Works Paperback – 21 April 2022​

by Nathan Leamon (Author), Ben Jones (Author)

which I would recommend to anyone interested in how cricket really works nowadays.

Your gripe may well be with the decisions that were made following the input of the data — decisions are subjective and open to human bias, but to suggest data analysis is overrated is frankly silly.

Yes

Misbah has done extreme harm to the credibility of data analysis

 

[160KPH]

Yes

Misbah has done extreme harm to the credibility of data analysis

Is that why the top teams in international cricket and franchise cricket all across the world spend tremendous amounts of money on paying the best data analysts they can find?

 

[Mamoon]

Why would Imad fans want a data analyst though - he averages 44 with the ball in ODIs and 15 with the bat in T20Is.

An all-round failure.

 

[Rana]

Is that why the top teams in international cricket and franchise cricket all across the world spend tremendous amounts of money on paying the best data analysts they can find?

Yes, the reason why top teams spend an EXTREME amount of money on data analysis is because they don’t want the budget version which Misbah used, and made a complete mockery of international white ball cricket.

 

[Rana]

Hundred franchises also have expert data analysts

I wonder why they never thought about hiring Babar and Rizwan for their campaigns based on the analysis drawn by Misbah ul Haq?

@topspin @mominsaigol @Dr_Bassim

 

[PakEngFan]

Why would Imad fans want a data analyst though - he averages 44 with the ball in ODIs and 15 with the bat in T20Is.

An all-round failure.

Saw something interesting mental beast Imad who's a match winner and turns up at big occasions wouldn't have had a bowling average in the cwc 19 if it wasn't for his 2 wickets against Afghanistan. You can't make it up.

Great stuff from a match winner lol.

 

[Rajdeep]

He already does. Where have you been for the last decade. The guy was angry we won the CT in 2017.

If I am not wrong, he was happy that his team won the match but he was worried that it may have been a fluke and was aprehensive that it may impact the team in longer run. And he was right to an extent that the heroes of that CT win like Hasan Ali, Fakhar, Shadab and Sarfraz were never the same player again. They were so much engrossed in the fame of that win that their career took downward spiral from there. Within 1 year of winning that final, they got knocked out in Asia cup by losing twice against Ind and once against BD. Next in 2019 WC, they fail to make the top 4. The team got exposed badly in Asia cup and WC 2023 as well. So Mamoon bhai's aprehension back in 2017 is somewhat justified.

 

[Mohraheem]

We should keep this energy to kick out Players like Misbah who destroyed Pakistan cricket with tuktuk

 

[iPakistani]

Hundred franchises also have expert data analysts

I wonder why they never thought about hiring Babar and Rizwan for their campaigns based on the analysis drawn by Misbah ul Haq?

@topspin @mominsaigol @Dr_Bassim

Because they bat too slow. But surely your enigmatic fearless powerplay bashers Fakhar and Sharjeel should've been picked for the Hundred no?

 

[Rana]

It’s funny how the expert data analysts of the last 4 years in PCT missed the fact that Imad Wasim has the best dot ball ratio bowling in the powerplay in Pakistan and maybe in the world

And you had guys like Wasim Jr, Shahnawaz Dahani, Harris Rauf all getting tonked for 12 over plus as a norm regularly for Pakistan in the powerplay

 

[Bewal Express]

If I am not wrong, he was happy that his team won the match but he was worried that it may have been a fluke and was aprehensive that it may impact the team in longer run. And he was right to an extent that the heroes of that CT win like Hasan Ali, Fakhar, Shadab and Sarfraz were never the same player again. They were so much engrossed in the fame of that win that their career took downward spiral from there. Within 1 year of winning that final, they got knocked out in Asia cup by losing twice against Ind and once against BD. Next in 2019 WC, they fail to make the top 4. The team got exposed badly in Asia cup and WC 2023 as well. So Mamoon bhai's aprehension back in 2017 is somewhat justified.

No he wasn't. He was bitter that we won. Apparently we aren't supposed celebrate because he gets offended.

 

[Mamoon]

It’s funny how the expert data analysts of the last 4 years in PCT missed the fact that Imad Wasim has the best dot ball ratio bowling in the powerplay in Pakistan and maybe in the world

And you had guys like Wasim Jr, Shahnawaz Dahani, Harris Rauf all getting tonked for 12 over plus as a norm regularly for Pakistan in the powerplay

I think everyone is aware of Imad’s dot ball ratio. His 25 in 21 balls in the CT Final in the death overs, including 7 runs of his last 10 balls was a defensive masterclass.

 

[Rana]

I think everyone is aware of Imad’s dot ball ratio. His 25 in 21 balls in the CT Final in the death overs, including 7 runs of his last 10 balls was a defensive masterclass.

Yes, he was halfway there to his 50, which Babar has never crossed against India in ODIs

Data analysis proves Babar should not bat in top 4 against India because he will not contribute more than 50.

 

[PakEngFan]

Yes, he was halfway there to his 50, which Babar has never crossed against India in ODIs

Data analysis proves Babar should not bat in top 4 against India because he will not contribute more than 50.

Another lie Babar scored 50 in the world cup against India. But yes spread your lies.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Yuvis 12 of 21 was not a selfish innings, he just wasn’t able to put the ball away.
Yuvraj was never someone who would bat for stats, also 12 of 21 can’t even be called statspadding

 

[mominsaigol]

The fact that you are hiding behind “burden of proof” shows that you have bottled it.

You claimed, and very confidently, that 40 runs in 50 balls is selfish but 11 in 21 is a selfless struggle.

My question is very simple - What is the threshold of selfishness and selflessness in terms of number of runs scored and number of balls faced.

If there is an overlap, then confirm the number of runs and balls for the overlap.

You used runs scored x balls faced as a metric to proof that one innings was selfish and the other wasn’t but it appears that you can’t back it up now.

I haven't bottled anything, you confidently proclaimed yuvi's innings was him playing selfish, I corrected you, now it's up to you to counter me, instead you derail.

Ong you have no idea on how to debate at all do you? It would explain the clown emoji spams.

 

[mominsaigol]

Hundred franchises also have expert data analysts

I wonder why they never thought about hiring Babar and Rizwan for their campaigns based on the analysis drawn by Misbah ul Haq?

@topspin @mominsaigol @Dr_Bassim

Bro I've done a Google certification course on data analytics and data driven decisions, it was a requirement for my advertising degree.

The first thing the Google administration staff said was, btw once you get all your stats and analyse all the data, know that the data will still be wrong as it will never completly account for every factor and simply cannot replace human judgment as an element of personal bias and following your intuition is needed to get accurate results.

Basically once the data is collected, human judgement is needed to assert whether the accuracy of the data irrespective of what the physical numbers represent.

It's why I've told people countless times on this thread, the stats argument is useless as by this logic Imam ul haq is 10x the batsmen inzimam ever was.

Data doesn't account for external factors such as the strength of bowlers, the current rules vs the old era rules, the quality of bats over eras, the pitches played on, the overall strength of teams etc etc

The whole babar will go down as the greatest pakistani batsmen of all time is beyond hilarious .

 

[Human786]

I am deeply disturbed by the recent events that have unfolded in Pakistan cricket. The way the current PCB regime is operating will discourage the players who are putting in the hard yards in domestic cricket.

Mohammad Amir, notwithstanding his criminal past, turned his back on Pakistan cricket four years and has since then done nothing except produce mediocre performances in the PSL and has not bothered to play other domestic competitions.

In the recently concluded PSL, he wasn’t even among the top 5 Pakistani pacers. He has done absolutely nothing to warrant selection.

He wouldn’t have taken his retirement back if he wasn’t given assurances by the PCB that he will be playing at the World Cup. His selection is a slap in the face of bowlers like Mohammad Ali, Abbas Afridi, Mir Hamza and Hassan Ali who all bowled better than him in the PSL, toil in domestic cricket and haven’t turned their back on Pakistan cricket.

Similarly, Imad retired from international cricket for his own selfish interests and now he has taken his retirement back after getting assurances from PCB over his place in the World Cup team because the timing suits him.

There is no league cricket around at the moment other than the IPL and the World Cup will start as soon as the IPL ends. When the World Cup is over, he will retire from international cricket again or he will retire as soon as he find a better opportunity elsewhere.

His selection is a slap in the face for Mehran Mumtaz who works hard in domestic cricket and is eager to represent Pakistan.

He slept through the entire league phase of the PSL and based on a couple of games, PCB decided to bend over backwards to appease him even though he made it clear that he is retired from international cricket.

It seems that the concept of retirement means nothing to Pakistani players, PCB and the fans.

Amir and Imad are acting as if they have done Pakistan cricket a huge favor and will peddle the narrative that they have taken retirement back to “serve” Pakistan cricket, but the reality is that they are looking after their own interests.

Playing for Pakistan cricket right now has no opportunity cost because there is no cricket going on elsewhere until the World Cup and the chance to play a World Cup and have a paid trip to USA is too attractive for them to decline.

Their corpses have risen from their coffins not because they want to help and serve Pakistan cricket but because they are looking after their own interests.

They have put themselves above Pakistan cricket in the past and they will continue to do so in the future.

PCB have sent a clear message to domestic performers that they have no faith in them and would rather negotiate with retired players, criminals and selfish players who couldn’t care less about Pakistan cricket.

If you are a domestic player why would you want to play for Pakistan in such an environment.

I humbly request all self-respective and sincere supporters and stakeholders of Pakistan cricket to boycott Pakistan cricket as long as the current regime is in power because the betterment and long-term future of Pakistan cricket is not their priority.

Every cricket board is powered by the public. They hold all the cards and if the masses boycott Pakistan cricket, everything will be taken care of and this terror regime will crash and burn in no time.

Personally speaking, I am officially boycotting Pakistan cricket as long as Amir, Imad, Wahab are involved, Masood remains Test captain and the current PCB Chairman is in power.

It is not possible for me to support and even watch Pakistan cricket matches in these circumstances.

good post - completely agree about Amir !

 

[Swashbuckler]

Due to frustration with results, board, players etc desi fans always threaten to boycott but rarely follow up. Can't blame them because our countries are single sport countries despite the population. Unlike SENA countries where there are a plethora of sporting/entertainment options, just look at Australia who have sports dedicated to seasons/geography.

If India or Pakistan were even half decent at football, like some of the war torn West Asian or African countries, most of us would have lost interest in cricket a long time back.

Admit it. Pakistani fans didn't stop following cricket after multiple humiliations like 2007 vs Ireland, 2010 spot fixing saga, 2023 WC, a home test series whitewash against England. Indian fans didn't stop following cricket despite 2007 WC, Dhoni's 0-8, IPL corruption, gazillion ICC KO chokes. We are inherently shameless, our primitive societies lack accountability, we are so used to mediocrity and humiliation. Slavery and lack of self respect run in our blood as can also be see from our political choices.

Not just limited to sports. Desi idea of entertainment or leisure time is cinema, shopping or eating out. As opposed to the civilized world where apart from the usual things like restaurants, cinema, malls, they have great interest in treks/hiking, physical activity, museums, theatre, concerts, or even pick hobbies, read books, musical instruments, dance etc.

Even if our countries lose every single match for the next 10 years and fall below Denmark and Rwanda in the ICC ranking, PP will still be active, our fans will still be wasting countless hours and fighting on X. That is our nature/culture where we lack the capacity to explore other avenues or do something creative.

 

[Rana]

Another lie Babar scored 50 in the world cup against India. But yes spread your lies.

Oh he got to 50?

Data suggests Babar will reach 50 at best.

 

[160KPH]

Oh he got to 50?

Data suggests Babar will reach 50 at best.

You got caught in another lie? Wow I’m so surprised.

 

[PakEngFan]

Oh he got to 50?

Data suggests Babar will reach 50 at best.

Well done for another lie. You must be proud.

 

[PakEngFan]

You got caught in another lie? Wow I’m so surprised.

Him and a couple of his fans lie and make things up. It's a surprise now when they don't lie.

 

[mominsaigol]

I've decided I'm no longer going to engage in babar and imad discussions as not only have they gotten beyond tedious and boring St this point, they've also gotten hostile to the point that boycott threads and weird fantasy chairman narratives and entire social media fame nonsense is being applied.

This war isn't even about their respective role in the team anymore and whether their an assist or a liability.

Its all political,

One second the conversation is about how good of players imad and Babar are and the next it's about spot fixing, or TV toxicity or Rawalpindi crowd or smoking etc etc.

Edit: All my discussions will be about the world cup team and what shpuld be sent only, so mostly how are preparation is and what can be done to improve.

 

[Rana]

You got caught in another lie? Wow I’m so surprised.

Yes, go on. Get the fireworks out and ease your pain.

 

[Rana]

Him and a couple of his fans lie and make things up. It's a surprise now when they don't lie.

Yes, we lied about Imad being a good player and is needed for Pakistan. We lied about Amir being needed by Pakistan. Our lies were sold to the Pakistan management committee who went and begged those two players to return based on me and my friend’s lies.

Such is the power we hold.