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Thankfully we don't have to play India in Test cricket

daytrader said:
Okay that's really far fetched. A more accurate comparison would've been Australia vs England, the other prominent test rivalry. If Australia doesn't play England for almost 2 decades, can they claim superiority?

The gap between Pak and India is not big, but don't forget, Pak is leading. Your team has to close the gap
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Yeah not really... :)


Australia and England have consistently been the top 4 Test sides in the world for the past 15 years (Since Strauss took over England). Even the much criticised Silverwood's England were deceptively a good side that won away in South Africa, cleanswept Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka twice and completed well in India while drawing the home Ashes.


On the other hand Pakistan of today has managed to go through three whole series' and 8 home tests against SENA opponents without even a single win, not a single Test series win outside the subcontinent since 2017 (excluding mighty Zimbabwe) drawing even against West Indies.

Not the same comparison mate. :)
 
Mesozoic said:
LMAO. I know patriotism blocks all the logic and sanity (which is not a bad thing) but this is like some Zimbabwean fan saying "England or Australia cannot claim superiority over us because they don't play us".

Yes I know the gap between India and Pakistan is not as big as Australia and Zimbabwe but the point remains.
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India is clearly a better team in Test and ODI than Pakistan right now and has been that way for a while now. T20 is closer and Pakistan still puts up good performances there and made the recent WC Final.

You can say that you guys are the better ODI/Test team, but to say that you guys actually dominate our team or something along those lines we would actually have to play some series - otherwise it’s just theoretical.
 
Unless and Until Pakistan find some spin threat will struggle against most teams. Salman Ali Agha is not going to make anyone quack in their boots.
 
Mesozoic said:
Yeah not really... :)


Australia and England have consistently been the top 4 Test sides in the world for the past 15 years (Since Strauss took over England). Even the much criticised Silverwood's England were deceptively a good side that won away in South Africa, cleanswept Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka twice and completed well in India while drawing the home Ashes.


On the other hand Pakistan of today has managed to go through three whole series' and 8 home tests against SENA opponents without even a single win, not a single Test series win outside the subcontinent since 2017 (excluding mighty Zimbabwe) drawing even against West Indies.

Not the same comparison mate. :)
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Yeah, we're not doing too great at the moment however come game day against India, our boys raise their game.

If we were playing India regularly, we would've been considered a better test side.
 
daytrader said:
Yeah, we're not doing too great at the moment however come game day against India, our boys raise their game.

If we were playing India regularly, we would've been considered a better test side.
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How many times in the last 10 years have the boys "raised their game" vs India?

How many matches have Pakistan won and how many have they lost? That answers your question and disproves your theory.
 
160KPH said:
India is clearly a better team in Test and ODI than Pakistan right now and has been that way for a while now. T20 is closer and Pakistan still puts up good performances there and made the recent WC Final.

You can say that you guys are the better ODI/Test team, but to say that you guys actually dominate our team or something along those lines we would actually have to play some series - otherwise it’s just theoretical.
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It is as theoretical as saying that Pakistan will dominate Canada in a series.
 
Mamoon said:
How many times in the last 10 years have the boys "raised their game" vs India?

How many matches have Pakistan won and how many have they lost? That answers your question and disproves your theory.
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Everyone is so keen to downplay Pakistan's test record by going off topic to shorter formats. We haven't played a test with them in the last 10 years so how can they raise their game.

In LOIs, the boys haven't done too bad and even 'fluked' their way to a few memorable wins. CT17 final ofcourse and even the 152/0. We've had our moments.

In tests though our game is usually up there against India. Most tests being drawn between the two proves that we are no push overs.

We are also being deprived of quality opposition by India not playing with us. It's less pressure on them that they don't have to play Pakistan, part of the reason why they've been able to build a stable team. If they had to worry about changing their approach after a loss to Pakistan, they wouldn't be where they are.

Pakistan is also suffering because we are playing less tests and our boys aren't allowed to compete with the best. A win over India creates superstars. Sadly we aren't getting the opportunity but at some point it will happen. Hopefully India keeps up its good form till then so we can play the best.
 
Misbahs peak team vs kohlis peak team would be a great battle.
In India I see kohlis peak team winning 2 0 or 3 0

In u.a.e however I see it as a very competitive series.

Maybe 1-1 or 1-2 to India.
 
kron said:
What about peak misbahs side vs peak kohlis team
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Misbah’s Pakistan barely scraped past Sri Lanka, the only decent Asian Test side that they could face. Herath caused deep trouble to our batsmen.

Kohli’s India was a far better side and would have demolished Pakistan both in India and UAE.

It is delusional thinking that Pakistan would have beaten them in the UAE.
 
daytrader said:
Everyone is so keen to downplay Pakistan's test record by going off topic to shorter formats. We haven't played a test with them in the last 10 years so how can they raise their game.

In LOIs, the boys haven't done too bad and even 'fluked' their way to a few memorable wins. CT17 final ofcourse and even the 152/0. We've had our moments.

In tests though our game is usually up there against India. Most tests being drawn between the two proves that we are no push overs.

We are also being deprived of quality opposition by India not playing with us. It's less pressure on them that they don't have to play Pakistan, part of the reason why they've been able to build a stable team. If they had to worry about changing their approach after a loss to Pakistan, they wouldn't be where they are.

Pakistan is also suffering because we are playing less tests and our boys aren't allowed to compete with the best. A win over India creates superstars. Sadly we aren't getting the opportunity but at some point it will happen. Hopefully India keeps up its good form till then so we can play the best.
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Past records mean nothing because you are talking about different set of players in different eras. What Wasim, Miandad, Imran, Shoaib etc. did vs India in Tests has zero bearing on the current era.

Current Pakistan side, or the ones that has played in the last 10 years, has no chance of beating India in Test cricket.

And no Pakistan has not done well vs India in white ball cricket. 3-4 wins vs a dozen defeats is an embarrassing record.

The H2H between Pakistan and India in the last 6-7 years is highly embarrassing for Pakistan.
 
daytrader said:
Everyone is so keen to downplay Pakistan's test record by going off topic to shorter formats. We haven't played a test with them in the last 10 years so how can they raise their game.

In LOIs, the boys haven't done too bad and even 'fluked' their way to a few memorable wins. CT17 final ofcourse and even the 152/0. We've had our moments.

In tests though our game is usually up there against India. Most tests being drawn between the two proves that we are no push overs.

We are also being deprived of quality opposition by India not playing with us. It's less pressure on them that they don't have to play Pakistan, part of the reason why they've been able to build a stable team. If they had to worry about changing their approach after a loss to Pakistan, they wouldn't be where they are.

Pakistan is also suffering because we are playing less tests and our boys aren't allowed to compete with the best. A win over India creates superstars. Sadly we aren't getting the opportunity but at some point it will happen. Hopefully India keeps up its good form till then so we can play the best.
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The last test match played between India & Pak was in 2007 - 26 years back (which we won btw!). So the win-draw-loss ratios eons ago don’t matter because the two teams are not the same anymore. I don’t think the matches will be drawn anymore if the two sides meet- will be pretty much a one sided affair in favor of one side. Even Misbah’s team could not have taken on Kohli’s India which was aarguably our ATG Test team.
 
Late 2012 was probably the only period (albeit shortish) of time in the relatively recent past where Pakistan would have won a full Test series against India. They had peak Ajmal and a decent Hafeez chucking their way away merrily and guys like Rehman too were quite good.

And more importantly, India were going through a transition phase with the retirements of Dravid-Laxman and phasing out of Sachin, Harbhajan and Zaheer. Ashwin-Jadeja were still pretty raw too so Pak would have probably won 2-1 in a 4 match series.


Apart from that, it would have been an embarassing set of results as I don't Yasir Shah/Zulfiqar Babar and then later Noman Ali/Sajid Khan would have caused any kind of trouble for the Indian batters.
 
Indo-Pak clash would attract fans from the whole world. Would love to see the game between these 2 sides even though I know, Pakistan will end up on the losing side most of the time. but still, it is good for the game, NO?
 
I can see Jadeja spinning circles around the Pakistani batsmen.

Mockingbird said:
The last test match played between India & Pak was in 2007 - 26 years back (which we won btw!).
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Uhhh.

2007 = 16 years back.
India won that series 1-0.
 
Varun said:
I can see Jadeja spinning circles around the Pakistani batsmen.



Uhhh.

2007 = 16 years back.
India won that series 1-0.
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My bad… clearly the lack of sleep last night watching the match is now catching up to me 😂
Btw, I was in the stadium in Bangalore on the last day of the last match of that series. Very tense day of cricket. Ganguly delayed his 2nd innings declaration & we ran out of time to get Pakistan out (they were 7 down for 160 odd!). Never knew that would be the last India Pak test match in like forever.
 
At the end of the day, it is about taking Test wickets as cheaply as possible.

You need talented bowlers to do that. Considering that Pakistan produce some of the least gifted bowlers(pace and spin) , it is tough to beat a team like India

If you can successfully lobby the ICC to allow a 45 degree straightening of the elbow for bowlers or to allow a certain level of tampering with fingernails etc., PAK might have a chance to beat India or at least won't end up with a home season with 0 wins over Australia, NZ, England

The fact that their weak, timid batsmen can't hit sixes won't matter much, thankfully, in the Test format
 
I think 2010-2016 Pakistan could've beaten India.

Current Pakistan is a bit more inconsistent and may fail to beat India in Test. But, you never know. Pakistan is always unpredictable.
 
We can cut all the stats we like but the reality is the series is between two sides that weren't capable of winning the WTC in any of it's cycles.
 
17 straight home series wins for India, don't know when this streak will end. Australia's record is 10 (twice), for West Indies it is 8.
 
daytrader said:
Great achievements by India and kudos to you guys for making the best of home advantage.

However, these achievements are not against Pakistan and the intestity of an India vs Pakistan match is different. Until we see one, it's all what ifs
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Most of the teams haven't played Zimbabwe or Afghanistan or Ireland in tests, hence Australia or India or SA or England are not better than them.
 
Rajdeep said:
Wow...some stats. Didn't realize they were so poor in red ball cricket.

How many of those 18 games were at home?
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People here don't actually realise how pathetic Pakistan has been in Test cricket ever since the retirement of Misbah and Younis Khan.

Now some will say "Oh we don't care about this format...we prefer T20s" but it still sad to see a huge cricket market like Pakistan plunge to borderline minnow level in red ball cricket.
 
Indian cricket was at its lowest point in the late 90s - esp 99 tour of Aus .However one thing was a saving grace , Indian fans were not delusional though we happened to beat Pakistan in every WC game .

Looking at the comments on this thread , I wish I could say the same about Pakistani fans ….
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
It's a shame we don't get to see test matches between India and Pakistan, with the new talent coming through my hunch is that Pakistan would win a three test series 2-0, and a five test series either 3-0 or 3-1.
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You can take a Pakistani to Britain, but you can't take out the "Pakistan mein bohot talent hai" out of a Pakistani. :LOL:
 
vprasanna83 said:
Indian cricket was at its lowest point in the late 90s - esp 99 tour of Aus .However one thing was a saving grace , Indian fans were not delusional though we happened to beat Pakistan in every WC game .

Looking at the comments on this thread , I wish I could say the same about Pakistani fans ….
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So true - those were the lowest point years. Still can't believe ind beat pak in wc in 92, 96, 99. Those pak teams should have hammered ind. Even then was under no illusion whatsoever that ind was better than pak. Pak was the better team than ind during that period irrespective of the wc losses. It was more like pak vs sachin pretty much till 97. Post 2000 with dravid ganguly sehwag yuvraj bhaji zaheer kaif emerging - ind was the better team and has been the case ever since..
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
It's a shame we don't get to see test matches between India and Pakistan, with the new talent coming through my hunch is that Pakistan would win a three test series 2-0, and a five test series either 3-0 or 3-1.
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I think Pakistan might end up winning 4-0 in a 3-Test series, one extra win for talent. What was that Wasim said on The Pavilion? “Please share whatever you’re having, seems to be fun”?
 
Pakistan was better in many ways upto mid-2000s, not just cricket but also hockey, economy etc.

Now tables are reversed but we don't face each other as often. In hockey also, we have won every single game against Pakistan for the last 10 years something like 15 or 16 consecutive games, in Asian Games we scored 10 goals which is Pakistan's worst ever loss. In 80s and 90s there were so many bilateral test series in cricket as well as hockey where India was really made to suffer. But now the favors can't be returned because of politics.

But this can again reverse if Pak as a country course corrects. Economy and political stability hold the key.
 
Swashbuckler said:
Pakistan was better in many ways upto mid-2000s, not just cricket but also hockey, economy etc.

Now tables are reversed but we don't face each other as often. In hockey also, we have won every single game against Pakistan for the last 10 years something like 15 or 16 consecutive games, in Asian Games we scored 10 goals which is Pakistan's worst ever loss. In 80s and 90s there were so many bilateral test series in cricket as well as hockey where India was really made to suffer. But now the favors can't be returned because of politics.

But this can again reverse if Pak as a country course corrects. Economy and political stability hold the key.
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In what world did pakistan have a way better economy till the mid- 2000s

and india had even raced passed pakistan in cricket by that point looking at our consecutive odi series wins in pakistan soil, the 2004 test series win and the 2003 wc
 
daytrader said:
India look good these days, no doubt. But they have only gotten good since they stopped playing Pakistan.

We were their bogey team and a few losses against us woild see them chopping their players/captain/coaches.

They would not be the settled unit they are today if they had to continously face us. The bigger blessing is for Indian cricket that they can play pressure free
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Thank you Pakistan for stopping to play India. Same way Duckett said that Bazball deserved credit for Jaiswal’s aggressive batting and runs.
 
hoshiarpurexpress said:
The main purpose to not play Pakistan is to deprive them of massive money from Indian cricket economy and that has been a rip roaring success. Win or loss is all theoretical and conjecture.
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Of course, and indians like like you enjoy that. nothing lasts forever, hopefully Pakistan will develop, hopefully the filthy rotten crooks in charge will die off and Pakistan may slowly change for the better. May Pakistan change this stupid concept that their neighbour is thier well wisher. Your comments reflect your nations mentality. I wish that Pakistanis stop this stupid pandering to their ill-wishing neighbour.
 
On Paper it should be a one sided thrashing , especially in tests. The batting depth India have is a lot with a very good bowling attack

But matches are not played on paper, so till both sides actually play we cant predict the results
 
Nikhil_cric said:
I posted that to show how your original point is flawed and biased, somewhat .

Pakistan is not unpredictable . They have no chance of winning a single Test match against India.
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A mid-tier team can defeat #2 team (#1 is Australia of course). It wouldn't be an upset.

Not sure why you are feeling so overconfident.
 
sweep_shot said:
A mid-tier team can defeat #2 team (#1 is Australia of course). It wouldn't be an upset.

Not sure why you are feeling so overconfident.
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Because of their custom made pitches. Look at the record of their spinner at home and in SENA. At home they are goat contenders while in SENA they are as good as a part time spinner.
 
sweep_shot said:
A mid-tier team can defeat #2 team (#1 is Australia of course). It wouldn't be an upset.

Not sure why you are feeling so overconfident.
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That is what Buffet showed. That Pakistan did zilch from 2017... What are you on dude???
 
sweep_shot said:
A mid-tier team can defeat #2 team (#1 is Australia of course). It wouldn't be an upset.

Not sure why you are feeling so overconfident.
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Last 11 years , there have only been 2 teams that have won 1 Test per tour in India - England and Australia .

From the stats I posted above , Pakistan are only slightly above WI and SL and we have lost 1 Test in total to both of them and that was when Herath was playing.

So yes, it's not overconfidence to suggest that Pakistan beating India would almost be a non event.
 
Last thing i want is a validation from a perennial minnow team fan. The current Pakistan side had fantastic opportunity to make it to WTC final with so many home games. Instead they did not win even a single Test against big teams. So i doubt they will beat any decent side in the near futre in a series.
 
PakEngFan said:
Because of their custom made pitches. Look at the record of their spinner at home and in SENA. At home they are goat contenders while in SENA they are as good as a part time spinner.
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Indeed. They are still home track bullies. They cannot win a series in England, South Africa, and NZ.
 
daytrader said:
Everyone is so keen to downplay Pakistan's test record by going off topic to shorter formats. We haven't played a test with them in the last 10 years so how can they raise their game.
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Thats because it is easier for an Avg team to Win against a stronger team in shorter formats yet the recent ind vs pak record in odis is there for everyone to see.

daytrader said:
In tests though our game is usually up there against India. Most tests being drawn between the two proves that we are no push overs.
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You are using a stat from old eras to prove current team is strong ... lol

just look at how the same eng team completely thrashed Pak in Pak just a year ago... and see what happened to them today. Ditto with Aus.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Last thing i want is a validation from a perennial minnow team fan. The current Pakistan side had fantastic opportunity to make it to WTC final with so many home games. Instead they did not win even a single Test against big teams. So i doubt they will beat any decent side in the near futre in a series.
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Quite surprised to see such a sharp and direct reaction from you, after all kinds of constant belittling this poster has done against our team’s performance in various threads over last few months herein PP.

Better late than never. 👍🏻😅
 
PakEngFan said:
Because of their custom made pitches. Look at the record of their spinner at home and in SENA. At home they are goat contenders while in SENA they are as good as a part time spinner.
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Jadeja averages 21 with the ball in Australia. Best Asian spinner to ever tour there.

And yet you call him a part time spinner?

Pakistan's biggest matchwinner in recent times was Yasir Shah and he averaged 90 with the ball in Australia.

If Jaddu was a part timer , then Saqlain was a club level pie chucker and Yasir was a minnow woman's team part timer bowling to men.
 
BaaliSoda said:
Quite surprised to see such a sharp and direct reaction from you, after all kinds of constant belittling this poster has done against our team’s performance in various threads over last few months herein PP.

Better late than never. 👍🏻😅
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Gave the troll a chance. But lives up to the reputation of the most dislikable fans of a cricket team. So just ignore.
 
sweep_shot said:
Aussies were #1 prior to this India-England series. Gap is only 5 points. Aussies are likely to regain it again.

Also, Aussies hold the WTC trophy. They are the undisputed #1.
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WTC winner means they were #1 in the previous cycle. Also they just lost to Windies at home.
 
sweep_shot said:
This is the most accurate reflection. Not what @Buffet posted.
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The top 4 sides in the last 5 years are Aus, Eng, NZ and Ind. Pakistan has beeen very consitent against top sides in the last 5 years with W/L = 0. This is the only thing matter when discussing Pakistan's ability to win matches agaisnt any top team.

Since you want to talk about Pakistan's being a bit inconsistent for hypothetical Ind-Pak matches,

Pakistan has been extremely consistent agasint top teams ( Top 4 teams): Zero test win in 5 years.

PakisStr.png



Pakistan has been extremely consistent agasint bottom teams ( Bottom 4 teams): 7 test wins in 5 years.

PakisSTR1.png



Pakistan failed to win a single test against good teams and won 7 tests against weaker teams. Seems very consistent performance from Pakistan. No one will call it inconsistent.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Jadeja averages 21 with the ball in Australia. Best Asian spinner to ever tour there.

And yet you call him a part time spinner?

Pakistan's biggest matchwinner in recent times was Yasir Shah and he averaged 90 with the ball in Australia.

If Jaddu was a part timer , then Saqlain was a club level pie chucker and Yasir was a minnow woman's team part timer bowling to men.
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I said SENA. I was hoping you could read. Yasir shah has a 5fer and 10fer in SENA I believe , so if he was minnow women's team part timer bowling to men than jadeja and Ashwin must be toddlers bowling to mens.
 
Buffet said:
The top 4 sides in the last 5 years are Aus, Eng, NZ and Ind. Pakistan has beeen very consitent against top sides in the last 5 years with W/L = 0. This is the only thing matter when discussing Pakistan's ability to win matches agaisnt any top team.

Since you want to talk about Pakistan's being a bit inconsistent for hypothetical Ind-Pak matches,

Pakistan has been extremely consistent agasint top teams ( Top 4 teams): Zero test win in 5 years.

View attachment 142642



Pakistan has been extremely consistent agasint bottom teams ( Bottom 4 teams): 7 test wins in 5 years.

View attachment 142643



Pakistan failed to win a single test against good teams and won 7 tests against weaker teams. Seems very consistent performance from Pakistan. No one will call it inconsistent.
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The two tables you posted were biased. You need to add all top 8 teams at once. Not 4.

It seems like you want to win over Indian posters for whatever reason.

Anyway, here is the unbiased table to show how teams did since 2017:



sdfdfds.png
 
sweep_shot said:
Who determines who is a top side? You?
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Nah, not me. It determined by their performances.

For non-followers or people who don't follow test seriously, top teams are who win more and who are ranked higher.



,

top4.pngtop4-1.png
 
What a hilarious thread this is turning out to be... :yk


A renowned Pakistani cricket journalist starts the thread by stating that India would hammer them but a random Bangladeshi low quality/low cricketing IQ poster ended up getting triggered. :ROFLMAO:
 
PakEngFan said:
I said SENA. I was hoping you could read. Yasir shah has a 5fer and 10fer in SENA I believe , so if he was minnow women's team part timer bowling to men than jadeja and Ashwin must be toddlers bowling to mens.
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No he's not. Just because they didn't take fifers because the seamers took wickets doesn't make them part timers .

On the other hand, Yasir Shah averages 90 in Australia , 123 in South Africa , 65 in New Zealand.

Thats utter rubbish. So much for being the superior SENA spinner.
 
sweep_shot said:
The two tables you posted were biased.
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If we are talking about Pakistan's chances agasint a top test team then it make sense to see how Pakistan has been performing agasint top sides. I don't see why it will be biased. Just see it rationally and think about it.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
No he's not. Just because they didn't take fifers because the seamers took wickets doesn't make them part timers .

On the other hand, Yasir Shah averages 90 in Australia , 123 in South Africa , 65 in New Zealand.

Thats utter rubbish. So much for being the superior SENA spinner.
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Never said he was superior. He was rubbish and still managed to pick up a 5fer and a 10fer. Come back to me when Ashwin picks up a 5fer in SENA let alone a 10fer.

If your seamer picked all the wickets then how comes you haven't won a series in SA,NZ and England in recent times?
 
Pakistan spin bowling strength is at all time low. That is not something exaggerating to say . No disrespect to Abrar. He probably can do well in some parts of the world. Pace attack is disoriented. Amer Jamal is a decent test prospect. Need more evidence. Other bowlers don't have fitness to do well in Tests. Mostly good for 4 over spells. Bowling is traditionally stronger suite of Pakistan. Right now not a single pak bowler is in top 10 ranking. Best is Shaheen who is already on the downhill. Second best 33rd ranked Hasan Ali. Among spinners Abrar is the highest ranked spinner. Ranked 43rd.
 
Mesozoic said:
What a hilarious thread this is turning out to be... :yk


A renowned Pakistani cricket journalist starts the thread by stating that India would hammer them but a random Bangladeshi low quality/low cricketing IQ poster ended up getting triggered. :ROFLMAO:
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Your country has an average IQ score of 76.24. Don't become arrogant about IQ score.

All I said was Pakistan had a chance against India. A mid-tier team can easily defeat a #2 team.

All Indian posters started to get triggered like Stephanie McMahon. Disappointing.
 
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