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Thankfully we don't have to play India in Test cricket

sweep_shot said:
Your country has an average IQ score of 76.24. Don't become arrogant about IQ score.

All I said was Pakistan had a chance against India. A mid-tier team can easily defeat a #2 team.

All Indian posters started to get triggered like Stephanie McMahon. Disappointing.
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This says everything

www.womeneye24.com

Bangladeshis have lower IQ than that of most other SA nations

Japan topped the list with a score of 106.48. The USA and Russia are ranked 28th and 34th with 97.43 and 96.29 points.
www.womeneye24.com www.womeneye24.com
 
Asian spinners in SENA since 2011(year of Ashwin's debut)

Ashwin - 71 wickets, average 39.36, Economy - 2.81

Herath - 54 wickets, average 42.90, Economy - 2.93

Jadeja - 52 wickets, average - 37.23 , Economy - 2.66

Yasir - 46 wickets, average - 55.08, economy - 3.87

Yasir was the biggest match loser among all Asian spinner in SENA . Got smashed at 4 RPO and averaged 55.
 
PakEngFan said:
Never said he was superior. He was rubbish and still managed to pick up a 5fer and a 10fer. Come back to me when Ashwin picks up a 5fer in SENA let alone a 10fer.

If your seamer picked all the wickets then how comes you haven't won a series in SA,NZ and England in recent times?
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Nobody claimed we had an ATG side capable of thrashing teams in their backyard. On the other hadn, when you have the worst bowling attack in Asia, you do end up getting whitewashed in SA/OZ/NZ for overa decade and part of the reason is that you had the worst spinner in Asia who could offer no control.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Nobody claimed we had an ATG side capable of thrashing teams in their backyard. On the other hadn, when you have the worst bowling attack in Asia, you do end up getting whitewashed in SA/OZ/NZ for overa decade and part of the reason is that you had the worst spinner in Asia who could offer no control.
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We don't claim to be a good team like your team
Atg this goat that and yet can't win anything. Yasir was rubbish yet he picked up a 5fer Ashwin who's got a million test wickets can't pick one outside his custom made pitches.
 
cricketcricket79 said:
Thank you Pakistan for stopping to play India. Same way Duckett said that Bazball deserved credit for Jaiswal’s aggressive batting and runs.
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Don't know anything about the incident that you're referring to. But yes, that's the argument - by not playing Pakistan, India has been able to develop a stable test team. No pressure to lose
 
PakEngFan said:
We don't claim to be a good team like your team
Atg this goat that and yet can't win anything. Yasir was rubbish yet he picked up a 5fer Ashwin who's got a million test wickets can't pick one outside his custom made pitches.
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I said we didn't claim to be an ATG side. Yasir averaged 55 with the ball in SENA . Got outbowled by Ashwin in SENA, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and West Indies. Literally Ash has a better record wherever they have played together.
And yet you slander the better spinner by talking about custom made pitches being the reason for their success.

Let Yasir bowl on Indian pitches against these same opponents and he wont average less than 30 with the ball. That is the gap in gulf and quality.

Yasir actually could not prevent NZ from drawing a series in 2014 and in 2018, he got outbowled by AJaz Patel and Will Somerville.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Most of the teams haven't played Zimbabwe or Afghanistan or Ireland in tests, hence Australia or India or SA or England are not better than them.
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It's not the same logic bud We've played in the past and established the greatest rivalry in cricket if not all of sports. We have beaten India many times
 
sweep_shot said:
All I said was Pakistan had a chance against India. A mid-tier team can easily defeat a #2 team.
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In Test cricket, it's not that easy for a "mid-tier" side to beat a much stronger opponent. It's common cricketing knowledge that the longer the format the harder it is for inferior teams to cause an upset.

There's a reason why Sri Lanka have never win a single test match in India despite being a "slightly above mid tier" for much of it's history. Australia and England are the only sides who have the ability and the mindset to compete with India in Test cricket on a regular basis...and coincidentally those are also the top 3 sides for most part of the last decade.
 
daytrader said:
Don't know anything about the incident that you're referring to. But yes, that's the argument - by not playing Pakistan, India has been able to develop a stable test team. No pressure to lose
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So how does that theory of "no pressure to lose" work in ODI and T20s?
 
daytrader said:
Don't know anything about the incident that you're referring to. But yes, that's the argument - by not playing Pakistan, India has been able to develop a stable test team. No pressure to lose
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So unless it's a Test match against Pakistan, Indian players have no pressure to lose?


Do you guys even think before typing out such utter garbage? 🤣
 
daytrader said:
It's not the same logic bud We've played in the past and established the greatest rivalry in cricket if not all of sports. We have beaten India many times
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That Indian team that you beat no longer plays today. Today's Indian team is completely different.

Using that logic we might as well say the WI will beat India because once upon a time they used to regularly beat us black and blue.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
I said we didn't claim to be an ATG side. Yasir averaged 55 with the ball in SENA . Got outbowled by Ashwin in SENA, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and West Indies. Literally Ash has a better record wherever they have played together.
And yet you slander the better spinner by talking about custom made pitches being the reason for their success.

Let Yasir bowl on Indian pitches against these same opponents and he wont average less than 30 with the ball. That is the gap in gulf and quality.

Yasir actually could not prevent NZ from drawing a series in 2014 and in 2018, he got outbowled by AJaz Patel and Will Somerville.
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I said Yasir was rubbish but still managed to pick up a 5fer and 10fer come back when Ashwin takes a 5fer in SENA. That's like saying someone is an atg but doesn't have a century in SENA. Taking wickets in India wouldn't be hard. Players like Joe root has a 5fer there and many rubbish spinners have taken wickets for fun even look at the current England spinners who can't even get into their country teams.
 
Intangible factors are good for argument. But real assessment can be made by analyzing how they compete with other top sides. Not a pretty sight. Whitewashed at home by ENgland. Whitewashed in Australia. Next is strengths and weaknesses. There are more weaknesses than strengths with current Pakistan side. Since we rae talking about an impossible scenario let us see how they compete against other countries
 
Saj is right in the original post when he said that Pakistan is lucky to avoid playing Test series with India and the Indian Govt should be thanked.

If England beats a sfull strength Pakistan 3-0 in Pakistan, and only manages one win against a depleted Indian side in 5 tests then I have to admit that there's no way Pakistan is winning any test series Vs India.

MIracles can happen of course.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Intangible factors are good for argument. But real assessment can be made by analyzing how they compete with other top sides. Not a pretty sight. Whitewashed at home by ENgland. Whitewashed in Australia. Next is strengths and weaknesses. There are more weaknesses than strengths with current Pakistan side. Since we rae talking about an impossible scenario let us see how they compete against other countries
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The biggest weakness of this Indian team is it's batting can be extremely vulnerable against seam movement and swing. That's the reason why we haven't won in South Africa, England or New Zealand in the recent past although we came close multiple times.

Now the question arises for all the delusional moaners on this thread. Will Pakistan ever be in a situation to take advantage of the said Indian weakness? Don't think even the most optimistic pak fan would say they would do so especially on Indian or Pakistani pitches. And if we move onto a less realistic neutral venue argument (let's say England) , India obviously has much better bowling attack there too.
 
India is now a first world cricketing nation while Pakistan is in the bottom tier. These are undisputable facts.
 
Mesozoic said:
The biggest weakness of this Indian team is it's batting can be extremely vulnerable against seam movement and swing. That's the reason why we haven't won in South Africa, England or New Zealand in the recent past although we came close multiple times.

Now the question arises for all the delusional moaners on this thread. Will Pakistan ever be in a situation to take advantage of the said Indian weakness? Don't think even the most optimistic pak fan would say they would do so especially on Indian or Pakistani pitches. And if we move onto a less realistic neutral venue argument (let's say England) , India obviously has much better bowling attack there too.
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Who are not weak against seam/swing? Everyone is susceptible. Especially seam movement will give you very little time to adjust. But current line up is using hte feet against pacers which is a good sign.
 
PakEngFan said:
I said Yasir was rubbish but still managed to pick up a 5fer and 10fer come back when Ashwin takes a 5fer in SENA. That's like saying someone is an atg but doesn't have a century in SENA. Taking wickets in India wouldn't be hard. Players like Joe root has a 5fer there and many rubbish spinners have taken wickets for fun even look at the current England spinners who can't even get into their country teams.
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Joe Root averaged 51 this series with bowl. He picked 8 wickets in 5 tests.

Ashwin, Jadeja and Kuldeep averaged between 20 and 25. They picked 26, 19 and 19 wickets respectively.

It helps when you back up your argument with actual numbers rather than just stating absurd arguments as it sounds cheap and plain rubbish.
 
Ab Fan said:
Joe Root averaged 51 this series with bowl. He picked 8 wickets in 5 tests.

Ashwin, Jadeja and Kuldeep averaged between 20 and 25. They picked 26, 19 and 19 wickets respectively.

It helps when you back up your argument with actual numbers rather than just stating absurd arguments as it sounds cheap and plain rubbish.
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Why let facts get in the way of a good story?
 
Ab Fan said:
Joe Root averaged 51 this series with bowl. He picked 8 wickets in 5 tests.

Ashwin, Jadeja and Kuldeep averaged between 20 and 25. They picked 26, 19 and 19 wickets respectively.

It helps when you back up your argument with actual numbers rather than just stating absurd arguments as it sounds cheap and plain rubbish.
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When did I say he bowled well here? Read again I said even root has a 5fer in India. Can you prove otherwise? Somehow you have translated that into this series. Talking about actual number could you please provide us with the 5fers ashwin has in SENA? I will wait.
 
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The biggest sadness is the fact the likes of Ashwin and Kohli went and entire career without feasting on some utterly cheap runs and wickets because we don't play Pakistan..

Blokes like Williamson absolutely filled their appetites by scoring heavily against such attacks and that's why he even averages 50.

Too bad that Virat and Pujara couldnt benefit from that
 
guard said:
An indian vociferously defending and indian who masquerades as a Pakistani on a Pakistani Forum, who’d a thought it?! Lol
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I am relatively new here on this forum like you too. What I have noticed is that any new forum member will take umbrage on Mamoon’s posts because they appear to be anti-Pakistan even though Mamoj has been proven right innumerable times. You will find it out soon. The first step is to accept the reality. Pakistan cricket team has not been doing anything noteworthy. No fancy way to slice and dice the facts will change that. PCT would do well to heed to Mamoon’s suggestions.
 
Consider this a warning guys, any rude reference to other poster is not allowed and will be removed. Just remain on the topic discourse and try not to derail the thread
 
uppercut said:
That Indian team that you beat no longer plays today. Today's Indian team is completely different.

Using that logic we might as well say the WI will beat India because once upon a time they used to regularly beat us black and blue.
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'That Indian team' has changed many times, we've been playing since 1950s. It doesn't matter what team you field, an India Pakistan test match will always be competitive.
 
daytrader said:
'That Indian team' has changed many times, we've been playing since 1950s. It doesn't matter what team you field, an India Pakistan test match will always be competitive.
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Bro, I know this is an imaginary thread but India - Pakistan test match will be competitive from which angle? India's first class system and test cricket is very strong. Even top teams like Australia or England, who whitewash Pakistan at home, consider themselves lucky to win even a single test in India. And you think Pakistan has got any chance?

This notion that India-Pakistan matches always starts with equal footings due to external pressure doesn't fly in modern times. Modern players are equipped to handle all sorts of pressure. Had we not been playing ODI cricket too, you will be saying most India-Pakistan matches will be competitive. However, 99% of the matches are one sided thrashing whenever or wherever we meet. Only in T20s, Pakistan is on par or sometimes even better than Indian team.
 
Croma said:
Saj is right in the original post when he said that Pakistan is lucky to avoid playing Test series with India and the Indian Govt should be thanked.

If England beats a sfull strength Pakistan 3-0 in Pakistan, and only manages one win against a depleted Indian side in 5 tests then I have to admit that there's no way Pakistan is winning any test series Vs India.

MIracles can happen of course.
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It wasn't a full strength team
We had faheem muhammad ali nawaz and abrar in one game as part of our bowling attack so not sure what your eon about
 
PakEngFan said:
When did I say he bowled well here? Read again I said even root has a 5fer in India. Can you prove otherwise? Somehow you have translated that into this series. Talking about actual number could you please provide us with the 5fers ashwin has in SENA? I will wait.
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Pandya has a 5fer in England
Oh you meant ashwin. My bad
 
Rajdeep said:
Only in T20s, Pakistan is on par or sometimes even better than Indian team.
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I think it was due to kl,almost washed up rohit ,bhuvi,chahal,avesh kind of team before 2022 t20 wc.Now definitely we are in good space now due to jaiswal,rinku, bishnoi etc.
 
Most neutral observers would say recent results notwithstanding, India's roughly on par with Australia as a test team.

I think you can take Australia's results against Pakistan as a proxy of what India-Pakistan series would look like.

Wipeouts 5-0 / 4-1 in India
Mostly draws with 1-0 / 1-1 series results in Pakistan

It's a pity we aren't playing though. The atmosphere for such games in unique.
 
daytrader said:
'That Indian team' has changed many times, we've been playing since 1950s. It doesn't matter what team you field, an India Pakistan test match will always be competitive.
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As competitive as the 8-0 score line in the short format suggests where it is easier to win than in Test matches ?... even if you add T20 WC it becomes 14-1

Dill behelane. Ke liye khayal behtereen hai ... and all that jazz
 
uppercut said:
As competitive as the 8-0 score line in the short format suggests where it is easier to win than in Test matches ?... even if you add T20 WC it becomes 14-1

Dill behelane. Ke liye khayal behtereen hai ... and all that jazz
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Guess that's why India is leading head 2 head in T20s but not ODIs and Tests
 
Every Indian batsmen and bowler would have +5 and -5 averages respectively if they had the luxury of playing Pakistan in Test cricket.

Too bad they have missed out on so many easy peasy wins because of the geopolitical situation.
 
I guess a few posters here didn't watch the Border Gavaskar Trophy 2020-21. Ashwin's bowling was the finest by any visiting spinner in modern times, including Muralitharan. Getting 5fers is a misleading metric especially for this Indian bowling attack where there are 5 good to outstanding bowlers. I will never understand how a match winning 4fer or 90 is inferior to a 5fer or 100, why only look at multiples of 5 or 100? Without Ashwin no way would we have won that series, had he played at Gabba he was the frontrunner for man of the series award.

Kumble picked more pickets in SENA because our pacers were not that good. Kapil has picked 8fers and 9fers (in an innings, more than once) in West Indies and Australia because support case was Ghavri, Chetan Sharma, Prabhakar, Shastri. Before 2016 it wasn't tough to stat pad, but then came Kohli's fast bowling revolution. Not just in SENA, even in India Ashwin picked more 5fers, 10fers (6 out of 7 I believe) before 2016 than now, but now his average and strike rate are better.

If you look at the wickets column of West Indies from 70s and 80s, when they had the four pronged attack of Clive Lloyd, not many 5fers or wickets, since all the bowlers shared the spoils. Does that mean Kapil Dev was better than them? He was good but not in the class of Holding, Roberts, Garner. Likewise the scenario now when we have Bumrah, Shami, Ishant 2.0/Siraj/Umesh, Ashwin, Jadeja, Kuldeep.
 
I cringe to see indians trying to put down Pakistani cricket. Find new rivals for yourself and let Pakistan find their new rivals. Rivalry cannot be between teams who rarely play each other.
 
CricketCartoons said:
I cringe to see indians trying to put down Pakistani cricket. Find new rivals for yourself and let Pakistan find their new rivals. Rivalry cannot be between teams who rarely play each other.
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Which country do you feel are good current rivals for Pakistan?

For India I think Australia are rivals coz they always lose to them in ICC finals, & Australia has been unable to beat India in the last 4 Test Series.
 
Croma said:
Which country do you feel are good current rivals for Pakistan?

For India I think Australia are rivals coz they always lose to them in ICC finals, & Australia has been unable to beat India in the last 4 Test Series.
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haven't been following Pakistani cricket since some years now, but when I used to follow they had a good rivalry with England. India should look to Australia. Losing to Australia should hurt them more than happiness over winning against Pakistan.
 
CricketCartoons said:
I cringe to see indians trying to put down Pakistani cricket. Find new rivals for yourself and let Pakistan find their new rivals. Rivalry cannot be between teams who rarely play each other.
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All of us Indian posters who're on this board are to an extent weird and have some level of excess interest in Pakistan either curiosity or intent to troll/gloat. Therefore we're likely to focus a little extra on Pakistan compared to the average Indian fan. If I poll my friends who also follow cricket, I think I would find they barely see Pakistan as a rival and would actually struggle to name Pakistani players outside the big 3-4: Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen, Fakhar. They only get interested in Pakistani cricket for a few days before the match in the Cup.

We're the odd ones here not Indians in general.
 
daytrader said:
Guess that's why India is leading head 2 head in T20s but not ODIs and Tests
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Pakistans overall ODI w/l record vs Ind was 1.65 when we last played test Cricket in 2007 December. Since 2008 that W/L record Stands at 0.5 ... and this is while mainly playing mainly in big ICC / Asia cup matches.

As I said Dill behelane ke liye khayal bahoot khoobsurat/beheteren/lajawab hai ... and all that jazz.
 
Mamoon said:
That is a myth.

Misbah’s Pakistan could barely beat Sri Lanka and Sri Lanka in that era were still very inferior to India.

Kohli’s India would have destroyed Misbah’s Pakistan in Test cricket as well.
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Lol i agree Indian Team has been great. But Bilateral cricket with India would not have been one sided as you point out.

India had Tendulkar , Dravid , Laxman , prime Sehwag and Ghambir.. in bowling Zaheer khan , irfan Pathan , Anil Kumble and Harbhjan.. Australia at their peak struggled to beat India In India with these players but yet Inzimam with likes of Sami , abdul Razzaq, Arshan khan , Danish kaneria and shahid Afridi bowling in test cricket drew test series in 2006 tour.. and ended up winning odi series too. There was even bigger gap in quality back then it is now.. so stop posting sweeping statements. Continuous bilateral cricket would have benefited Pakistan too with players development and knowing opposition's game. Now with one off games in icc tournaments it becomes hard for Pakistan to beat a quality side like India.. continuous bilaterals would have been different story
 
Wasim Ghulam said:
Lol i agree Indian Team has been great. But Bilateral cricket with India would not have been one sided as you point out.

India had Tendulkar , Dravid , Laxman , prime Sehwag and Ghambir.. in bowling Zaheer khan , irfan Pathan , Anil Kumble and Harbhjan.. Australia at their peak struggled to beat India In India with these players but yet Inzimam with likes of Sami , abdul Razzaq, Arshan khan , Danish kaneria and shahid Afridi bowling in test cricket drew test series in 2006 tour.. and ended up winning odi series too. There was even bigger gap in quality back then it is now.. so stop posting sweeping statements. Continuous bilateral cricket would have benefited Pakistan too with players development and knowing opposition's game. Now with one off games in icc tournaments it becomes hard for Pakistan to beat a quality side like India.. continuous bilaterals would have been different story
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You are clearly mistaken by drawing parallels between the 2005 Pakistan team and the one that played in the last 10 years.

The 2005-2006 Pakistan had featured its strongest ever middle order if Younis, Yousuf and Inzamam. In addition, Kamran Akmal from 2004-2006 was a quality Test batsman and superior to Rizwan and Sarfaraz.

Note that I am talking about the 2004-2006 Kamran only, his game declined massively in later years but during that period, he was really good with the bat and played some exceptional knocks.

In the Misbah era, Pakistan had a middle-order of Azhar, Younis, Misbah and Shafiq and apart from Younis, none of the players would have been selected for Pakistan in the 2004-2006 period.

With a middle-order of Yousuf, Younis and Inzamam, I would back Pakistan to compete really well against Ashwin and Jadeja but with the 2010-2017 middle-order, they don’t have a chance.
 
Wasim Ghulam said:
Lol i agree Indian Team has been great. But Bilateral cricket with India would not have been one sided as you point out.

India had Tendulkar , Dravid , Laxman , prime Sehwag and Ghambir.. in bowling Zaheer khan , irfan Pathan , Anil Kumble and Harbhjan.. Australia at their peak struggled to beat India In India with these players but yet Inzimam with likes of Sami , abdul Razzaq, Arshan khan , Danish kaneria and shahid Afridi bowling in test cricket drew test series in 2006 tour.. and ended up winning odi series too. There was even bigger gap in quality back then it is now.. so stop posting sweeping statements. Continuous bilateral cricket would have benefited Pakistan too with players development and knowing opposition's game. Now with one off games in icc tournaments it becomes hard for Pakistan to beat a quality side like India.. continuous bilaterals would have been different story
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Also, continuous cricket doesn’t make you more likely to improve your performance. That is a myth used by our fans to justify the mediocre performances.

Take a look at England and Australia. They play more Tests in India than any other team yet they get smashed every time.

If this logic was true, they would be winning in India now because their players are so used to Indian wickets and Indian players but that is not the case because if there is a significant skill gap, it won’t be bridged by regular matches.

I repeat - not having bilateral cricket with India is the best possible thing that could have happened to the dignity of Pakistan cricket in the last 10 years.

Getting destroyed home and away in all formats every year would have been too much.
 
Mamoon said:
You are clearly mistaken by drawing parallels between the 2005 Pakistan team and the one that played in the last 10 years.

The 2005-2006 Pakistan had featured its strongest ever middle order if Younis, Yousuf and Inzamam. In addition, Kamran Akmal from 2004-2006 was a quality Test batsman and superior to Rizwan and Sarfaraz.

Note that I am talking about the 2004-2006 Kamran only, his game declined massively in later years but during that period, he was really good with the bat and played some exceptional knocks.

In the Misbah era, Pakistan had a middle-order of Azhar, Younis, Misbah and Shafiq and apart from Younis, none of the players would have been selected for Pakistan in the 2004-2006 period.

With a middle-order of Yousuf, Younis and Inzamam, I would back Pakistan to compete really well against Ashwin and Jadeja but with the 2010-2017 middle-order, they don’t have a chance.
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Your argument is clearly based on assumption while ignoring what actually happened.. according to you 2006 team had strongest middle order yet they were beaten comprehensively by England in England 3-0 and weaker middle order according to you was one with Azhar , Misbah and Younis yet they were the ones to compete with England in England drawing series 2-2 and lifted the test mace. So you can assume whatever you want but when actual cricket happens things change. Pakistan ended up winning odi series in 2012 against world champions yet you discount it by saying India was declining.. if they were declining how cone they won CT right after 6 months of that defeat.. india was lucky to avoid 3-0 embarrassment in that series
 
Mamoon said:
Also, continuous cricket doesn’t make you more likely to improve your performance. That is a myth used by our fans to justify the mediocre performances.

Take a look at England and Australia. They play more Tests in India than any other team yet they get smashed every time.

If this logic was true, they would be winning in India now because their players are so used to Indian wickets and Indian players but that is not the case because if there is a significant skill gap, it won’t be bridged by regular matches.

I repeat - not having bilateral cricket with India is the best possible thing that could have happened to the dignity of Pakistan cricket in the last 10 years.

Getting destroyed home and away in all formats every year would have been too much.
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It's not a myth. Continuous bilateral between India and Pakistan is altogether different as compared to rest of them. One series defeat results in huge changes on either side for next series and players also perform to best of their ability knowing that all eyes are on them. 2007 series in India , Pakistan with weaker side still competed well . Out of 3 tests india won the first one only, which should have been 3-0 looking at teams. Misbah scored close to 500 runs in that series . And more bilaterals between India Pakistan meant more money for the game in Pakistan and more incentives for players to perform.. there are lot of factors.. just assuming that India would beat us day in day out is also a myth
 
Red-Indian said:
Most neutral observers would say recent results notwithstanding, India's roughly on par with Australia as a test team.

I think you can take Australia's results against Pakistan as a proxy of what India-Pakistan series would look like.

Wipeouts 5-0 / 4-1 in India
Mostly draws with 1-0 / 1-1 series results in Pakistan

It's a pity we aren't playing though. The atmosphere for such games in unique.
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I beg to differ.. India Vs Pakistan is altogether different ball Game and Im pretty sure India would struggle to wipeout 5-0 or 4-1 .. example is last series in 2007.. 1-0 out of 3 and if we go one further back.. 1-1 .. Pakistan was loosing to Australia same way then as they do now
 
Wasim Ghulam said:
I beg to differ.. India Vs Pakistan is altogether different ball Game and Im pretty sure India would struggle to wipeout 5-0 or 4-1 .. example is last series in 2007.. 1-0 out of 3 and if we go one further back.. 1-1 .. Pakistan was loosing to Australia same way then as they do now
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Maybe...but it's tough to imagine. 12+ years of seeing strong teams getting wiped out in India has taught me to expect wipeouts. As it stands, Pakistan barely have a test team while India has prioritised tests through constant series against the big teams. If bilateral tests restarted today, I'd be stunned if we saw anything other than wipeouts.

Over time, we can speculate. Maybe Pakistan would slowly want to start competing again in tests because of it's competitive spirit, would prioritise it's domestic cricket and start producing test class talents. Conversely it's possible that a few humiliations would turn the country even more away from tests and increase the prioritisation of T20 cricket.

It's a pity we won't find out.
 
Wasim Ghulam said:
I beg to differ.. India Vs Pakistan is altogether different ball Game and Im pretty sure India would struggle to wipeout 5-0 or 4-1 .. example is last series in 2007.. 1-0 out of 3 and if we go one further back.. 1-1 .. Pakistan was loosing to Australia same way then as they do now
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How do you explain a great W/L record of 2.1 for IND vs pak in all ODI+T20I since we stopped playing bilateral test cricket if ind vs pak is altogether a different ball game as you say? The sample size is pretty decent too

Link:

stats.espncricinfo.com

Team records | Combined Test, ODI and T20I records | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com stats.espncricinfo.com
 
Wasim Ghulam said:
It's not a myth. Continuous bilateral between India and Pakistan is altogether different as compared to rest of them. One series defeat results in huge changes on either side for next series and players also perform to best of their ability knowing that all eyes are on them. 2007 series in India , Pakistan with weaker side still competed well . Out of 3 tests india won the first one only, which should have been 3-0 looking at teams. Misbah scored close to 500 runs in that series . And more bilaterals between India Pakistan meant more money for the game in Pakistan and more incentives for players to perform.. there are lot of factors.. just assuming that India would beat us day in day out is also a myth
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You forget that india had a crap bowling line up back then and indian pitches used to be flatter leading to more draws
 
CricketCartoons said:
I cringe to see indians trying to put down Pakistani cricket. Find new rivals for yourself and let Pakistan find their new rivals. Rivalry cannot be between teams who rarely play each other.
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Reminds me of when I used to walk home from school, sometimes you would get a bus going past with a bunch of kids on the top deck shouting abuse at those below when you would never hear a peep out of them when they were face to face and not travelling at 30mph.
 
Most of the times except a few it is Pakistan spin attack the got them the result. Asff and Gul performances are exceptions. That is where the massive challenge lies for Pakistan. Also indias new weakness has been spin. Pakistan will have less ammunition. Also indias attack is not made of Balaji, pathan who won a series in pakistan. Vastly superior to that. Pakistan line up has no inzi, Moyo, Younis,, Anwar. Man to man India look better. In shorter formats this difference can be masked. Not in longer formats. There is no real intimidation factor. Pakistan will definitely win a few sessions. But India will come back. All the other things are fictional.
 
Statpadder Inc said:
You forget that india had a crap bowling line up back then and indian pitches used to be flatter leading to more draws
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So did Pakistan.. that 1-1 draw in 2005 Pakistan managed it with Muhammad Sami , Arshad Khan , Rana Naveed.. these guys were no better than Anil Kumble , Zaheer Khan or irfan Pathan
 
Red-Indian said:
Maybe...but it's tough to imagine. 12+ years of seeing strong teams getting wiped out in India has taught me to expect wipeouts. As it stands, Pakistan barely have a test team while India has prioritised tests through constant series against the big teams. If bilateral tests restarted today, I'd be stunned if we saw anything other than wipeouts.

Over time, we can speculate. Maybe Pakistan would slowly want to start competing again in tests because of it's competitive spirit, would prioritise it's domestic cricket and start producing test class talents. Conversely it's possible that a few humiliations would turn the country even more away from tests and increase the prioritisation of T20 cricket.

It's a pity we won't find out.
Click to expand...
Well I think until 2017 when Misbah and Younis retired , any series would have been very competitive in subcontinent.. with Yasir Shah and Saeed Ajmal into mix as well with good form. After 2017 , Pakistan has not been able to produce good test results which is also combination of several factors.. lack of bilateral tests with big teams.. and also more focus on shorter format.. India is able to continuously produce world class test players because it has resources to do so.. the incentive of being a test cricketer in India is much better prospect as the one in Pakistan.. Indian Tracks became too much spin friendly after 2010s.. but im pretty sure Pakistan could counter that much better than either England or Australia.. another factor is that for a good part of decade , Pakistan had to play its cricket at neutral venue.. it makes a big difference.. so all things are assumptions that India would just slide past Pakistan in bilateral.. surely Indian team is miles ahead in terms of quality just recently.. you can say post 2018.. may be there could have been one series in that period where India could have pulled 4-1 scoreline.. Pakistan has been very competitive whenever they toured India even with weaker teams.. Sri Lanka is yet to win a test match in India.. that tells you about Pakistan's competitiveness in india
 
Wasim Ghulam said:
So did Pakistan.. that 1-1 draw in 2005 Pakistan managed it with Muhammad Sami , Arshad Khan , Rana Naveed.. these guys were no better than Anil Kumble , Zaheer Khan or irfan Pathan
Click to expand...
In 2005 ,ind lost the match in a frantic last session. In 2007 india was never in any trouble in the series. Misbah saved pak in the second match and dark light saved them in the last match.in 2 years ,if they completely lost the ability to compete ,how u will expect them to survive now with sole focus on t20
 
Vikram1989 said:
In 2005 ,ind lost the match in a frantic last session. In 2007 india was never in any trouble in the series. Misbah saved pak in the second match and dark light saved them in the last match.in 2 years ,if they completely lost the ability to compete ,how u will expect them to survive now with sole focus on t20
Click to expand...

When India lose, it is a fluke.

When India win, credit to India.

#IndianFanLogic
 
Wasim Ghulam said:
Well I think until 2017 when Misbah and Younis retired , any series would have been very competitive in subcontinent.. with Yasir Shah and Saeed Ajmal into mix as well with good form. After 2017 , Pakistan has not been able to produce good test results which is also combination of several factors.. lack of bilateral tests with big teams.. and also more focus on shorter format.. India is able to continuously produce world class test players because it has resources to do so.. the incentive of being a test cricketer in India is much better prospect as the one in Pakistan.. Indian Tracks became too much spin friendly after 2010s.. but im pretty sure Pakistan could counter that much better than either England or Australia.. another factor is that for a good part of decade , Pakistan had to play its cricket at neutral venue.. it makes a big difference.. so all things are assumptions that India would just slide past Pakistan in bilateral.. surely Indian team is miles ahead in terms of quality just recently.. you can say post 2018.. may be there could have been one series in that period where India could have pulled 4-1 scoreline.. Pakistan has been very competitive whenever they toured India even with weaker teams.. Sri Lanka is yet to win a test match in India.. that tells you about Pakistan's competitiveness in india
Click to expand...
Some fair points historically but the fact remains. India now are far ahead of Pakistan in tests. When the change happened from Pakistan being reasonably competitive to now barely a test team is tough to say. You believe it was in 2018 so I'll give you that. To change it will take years of committed effort. Recently you've been wiped out at home and wiped out away. Even if you do play India, is there enough interest to revive test cricket?
 
Some Pakistanis are good at extrapolating past data to arrive at a conclusion that their present team who has probably lost every important series out there will win against this Indian line up which has not lost a home series in 12 years and is the best touring team of all countries. Sure, whatever floats your boat!
 
uppercut said:
How do you explain a great W/L record of 2.1 for IND vs pak in all ODI+T20I since we stopped playing bilateral test cricket if ind vs pak is altogether a different ball game as you say? The sample size is pretty decent too

Link:

stats.espncricinfo.com

Team records | Combined Test, ODI and T20I records | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com stats.espncricinfo.com
Click to expand...
We are talking about bilateral cricket right? No one is talking about win loss in icc tournaments.. india is clearly dominating that.. last bilateral was in 2012 .. what was the result? 1-1 in t20 and 2-1 in odi for Pakistan with india avoiding humiliation of 3-0 with some luck in delhi odi... India was dominated win loss in tournaments before you stopped bilateral.. so thats your answer.. pull up record of head to head in odis from 2004-2017... you will find that head to head pretty much equal.. there has been only one t20 series in history and that also ended 1-1.. after 2017 , we played India in Asia cup 4 times and wc twice which India won 5 of them and 1 ended in washout.. so India has dominated Pakistan just recently post 2018... dnt flatter yourself by spreading this idea of dominance over a decade.. results say different.. most imp was ct win in 2017 that trumps all dominating wins of India post 2018 because that gave us icc trophy
 
Unpredictability and inconsistency might work in T20s and somewhat in ODIs , but Test format requires consistency.. one cannot use the excuse that they will raise the game and be unpredictable for Test cricket, Pakistan has been a bang average test cricket team since YK and Misbah left and those two were if anything very consistent in this format.
 
Red-Indian said:
Some fair points historically but the fact remains. India now are far ahead of Pakistan in tests. When the change happened from Pakistan being reasonably competitive to now barely a test team is tough to say. You believe it was in 2018 so I'll give you that. To change it will take years of committed effort. Recently you've been wiped out at home and wiped out away. Even if you do play India, is there enough interest to revive test cricket?
Click to expand...
Pakistan won against Lanka 2-0 so all is nit lost.. Sri Lanka fielded same team that defeated Australia before Pakistan series
 
Constant bilateral cricket is no guarantee for better results. You need players with the talent in the first place.
 
Wasim Ghulam said:
We are talking about bilateral cricket right? No one is talking about win loss in icc tournaments.. india is clearly dominating that.. last bilateral was in 2012 .. what was the result? 1-1 in t20 and 2-1 in odi for Pakistan with india avoiding humiliation of 3-0 with some luck in delhi odi... India was dominated win loss in tournaments before you stopped bilateral.. so thats your answer.. pull up record of head to head in odis from 2004-2017... you will find that head to head pretty much equal.. there has been only one t20 series in history and that also ended 1-1.. after 2017 , we played India in Asia cup 4 times and wc twice which India won 5 of them and 1 ended in washout.. so India has dominated Pakistan just recently post 2018... dnt flatter yourself by spreading this idea of dominance over a decade.. results say different.. most imp was ct win in 2017 that trumps all dominating wins of India post 2018 because that gave us icc trophy
Click to expand...

I don't get this logic ... are you saying there is more pressure/importance to bilateral series than ICC Events when it comes to ind vs pak ?
 
uppercut said:
I don't get this logic ... are you saying there is more pressure/importance to bilateral series than ICC Events when it comes to ind vs pak ?
Click to expand...
Apparently this thread is About Bilateral cricket between Ind and Pakistan and there has been no historical evidence to suggest to that India dominated Pakistan in bilateral cricket.. its not about what's important.. people are suggesting India will win series against Pakistan with Landslide margin which many of us dnt think so.. all are assumptions unless bilateral cricket happens
 
Pakistan has not win a single test against Australia, England , NZ from last five year and Pakistan fans are
Thinking they can beat India .lol
 
Wasim Ghulam said:
Apparently this thread is About Bilateral cricket between Ind and Pakistan and there has been no historical evidence to suggest to that India dominated Pakistan in bilateral cricket.. its not about what's important.. people are suggesting India will win series against Pakistan with Landslide margin which many of us dnt think so.. all are assumptions unless bilateral cricket happens
Click to expand...
Read above my post you get your answer.
 
Wasim Ghulam said:
Pakistan won against Lanka 2-0 so all is nit lost.. Sri Lanka fielded same team that defeated Australia before Pakistan series
Click to expand...
Those are really thin hopes to hold on to but you're welcome to them.

By any objective metrics - WTC points rankings, Test batting, bowling, all-rounder rankings, Pakistan batter averages against spin, Pakistan spinner averages etc. etc., India are a far superior team and would be expected to demolish Pakistan.

However if you want to cling on to the belief that there's something magical about a bilateral series that would cause the Pakistani players to play out of their skins and run India close...well hope is something noone should be denied.
 
Vikram1989 said:
Watching a score does not mean 1 -0.its understanding the context what happened .Alas understanding is not Ur forte.
Click to expand...

Let's not make things complicated.

2 series. One was 1-1 and another was 1-0 (2 draws).

Results matter only. Contexts are not important.
 
uppercut said:
Pakistans overall ODI w/l record vs Ind was 1.65 when we last played test Cricket in 2007 December. Since 2008 that W/L record Stands at 0.5 ... and this is while mainly playing mainly in big ICC / Asia cup matches.

As I said Dill behelane ke liye khayal bahoot khoobsurat/beheteren/lajawab hai ... and all that jazz.
Click to expand...

There's been a lot of factors since 2007 that have seen Pakistan Cricket's downfall. Head coach committed suicide, our best players got banned for spot fixing, more got banned for chucking and then no cricket at home for a decade.

Meanwhile, Indian cricket expanded it's influence, made lots of money and finally developed some pace bowlers to complement their strong batting.

I get why in your mind Pakistan is a write off.

Whats astonishing though is even though we were at our lowest, all was not lost as we still managed to bag a T20WC, the test Mace and the champions trophy. We also won our last ODI series over India in India!

This was our lowest yet we still managed all that, in a period where we didn't play cricket at home and our best players got banned.

You have every right to be proud of your World cup streak over us, but write us off at your own peril bud.
 
JaDed said:
Who do you think is the best Asian cricket team across formats?
Click to expand...

India obviously. More ICC trophies and Asia Cup trophies.

Having a larger population, larger landmass, less distractions, and more resources helped them though.
 
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