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The greatest Asian Test team of all time

Doesn't that then imply this Indian team would beat the Windies team of the 80s?

By extension, doesn't that imply that this Indian team is the greatest team of all time?



Zim may beat Pakistan and Pakistan may beat Aus, that won't mean that Zim is going to beat Aus. Circular logic does not work in cricket.

You can rate side based on how they have performed overall, come to the conclusion that the side is good or poor. You shouldn't be rating any side based on circular logic.
 
Nope, the peak rating for Pakistan is 112 points. Misbah team got to 111 points.



Article is dated JUly 2006, but looks wrong in reporting. Just go directly to ICC.


In July 2006,

View attachment 106064





In Aug 2006,

View attachment 106065

I have not seen any ICC direct source for peak rating above 112 for Pakistan.

It's nice when cricket is played on paper isn't it?
 
Gangulys goat team which drew in zimbabwe, lost in SA and NZ. Plus the much overhyped draw against an understrenghed Aussies in Aus.

I have already said 2007-10 was our peak test team.. I genuinely believe that was a GOAT Asian one as well..
 
Greatest Asian Test sides:

1. Present India (2015 onwards)
2. Ganguly’s India (2000-2005)
3. Imran’s Pakistan (1982-1991)

Please care to explain why gangulays india is better than the 1980s pak team.
 
Nope, the peak rating for Pakistan is 112 points. Misbah team got to 111 points.



Article is dated JUly 2006, but looks wrong in reporting. Just go directly to ICC.


In July 2006,

View attachment 106064





In Aug 2006,

View attachment 106065

I have not seen any ICC direct source for peak rating above 112 for Pakistan.

Pakistan had 109 rating points before the annual update on 12th July 2006. After the update on 12th July their rating increased to 120 points. 40 days later they lost the series in England 3-0, hence their rating got reduced to 112 points. But for 40 days they had 120 points which is their peak rating. There is your answer.
 
It's nice when cricket is played on paper isn't it?

Well, if you post a paper stats which is not based on reality then you may have a point.

Ranks and sustainability of ranks are based on actual results and it's not based on perceptions.
 
Pakistan had 109 rating points before the annual update on 12th July 2006. After the update on 12th July their rating increased to 120 points. 40 days later they lost the series in England 3-0, hence their rating got reduced to 112 points. But for 40 days they had 120 points which is their peak rating. There is your answer.

I am posting ratings at the end of July and the end of Aug from ICC site? Not sure how 120 points can exist in July lasting 40 days. You can check each month-end rating for all teams.
 
The funny thing is, as a Pakistan fan, when we were competing with WI in the 80s and having some awesome moments in the 90s, I was more concerned with our team and how good they were or could be. Or how we could improve. Yes, there were some painful moments in the 90s too, but I was more interested in watching our team.

I didn't really give India much thought tbf - they were a bit of a sideshow. And to be fair, we are a sideshow now. It seems that a lot of Indians are just obsessed with Pakistan even when we are really a pretty poor team these days.

Get over the obsession and if you like what your team is doing right now, then great - enjoy it. Stop worrying about what Pakistan are doing or how good they were in the past!
 
Nope, the peak rating for Pakistan is 112 points. Misbah team got to 111 points.



Article is dated JUly 2006, but looks wrong in reporting. Just go directly to ICC.


In July 2006,

View attachment 106064





In Aug 2006,

View attachment 106065

I have not seen any ICC direct source for peak rating above 112 for Pakistan.
In any case Pakistan's peak rating isn't 112 points. Pakistan had 116 points in Nov/Dec 1994 as well. Here is the ICC source.

https://web.archive.org/web/2013032...ket.com/match_zone/test_ranking.php?year=1994
 
Well, if you post a paper stats which is not based on reality then you may have a point.

Ranks and sustainability of ranks are based on actual results and it's not based on perceptions.

But it's not necessarily based on reality. It doesn't tell you what happened in the matches or the level of dominance. No statistics can tell you that. And then every so often the time period changes and the rankings change wildly.

I say this because even though Pakistan touched no1 in 2016, I personally didn't think that was accurate. We were not the best team in the world at that time for sure. No point doing somersaults over ranking points. If you are great, it will just be unanimous.

The Windies of the late 70s/80s didn't need ranking points to prove they were the best, neither did the Aussies of 2000s.
 
Why are Indian fans and their non Indian minions getting excited over a fought-for-life draw ?

and LOL at greatest Asian Team comment. I see Indian fans like OP becoming like Pakistani fans.
 
I am posting ratings at the end of July and the end of Aug from ICC site? Not sure how 120 points can exist in July lasting 40 days. You can check each month-end rating for all teams.

July ratings are from the beginning of July before 12th July update and August ratings are after Pak lost the series in England 3-0. You think losing a series 3-0 can increase their rating points from 109 in July to 112 points in August? Come on.
 
The pakistan team of 1980s=
Won matches in austrailia and the great west indies team.
Won series in India and england.
Drew in West indies and newzealand.
WL ratio of 1.77
WL ratio of the 2010s indian team is 1.68.
Had that pak team regularly play the 2010s indian team it would have a superior Wl ratio by the end of the decade. However I will agree that the 2015 onwards india team is the goat Asian test team with a WL ratio of almost 3 and a positive away WL ratio .

W/L is not a valid metric for comparison in test cricket, particularly across eras, because it ignores draws.
 
But it's not necessarily based on reality. It doesn't tell you what happened in the matches or the level of dominance. No statistics can tell you that. And then every so often the time period changes and the rankings change wildly.

I say this because even though Pakistan touched no1 in 2016, I personally didn't think that was accurate. We were not the best team in the world at that time for sure. No point doing somersaults over ranking points. If you are great, it will just be unanimous.

The Windies of the late 70s/80s didn't need ranking points to prove they were the best, neither did the Aussies of 2000s.

he mentioned sustainability, so you prove his point, as pakistan's number 1 ranking lacked sustainability.
 
Which is the greatest Asian team, then ?
I still believe it’s Imran’s side in the 80’s.

The main argument is that this current IND side has failed to win a series in ENG, NZ, and SA. Their major achievement has been a win in AUS against a depleted side.

This current performance is, IMO, 10X more impressive than the one last time.

For Imran’s side, the main argument is that they managed to draw three series against THE greatest Test team of all time when nobody else could do anything against them.

The only argument against Imran’s side could be they lost a Test, not series, to SL. But I find that particularly weak because you can single out any off-performance like that for an ATG side. NZ managed to draw in AUS in 01’ while NZ managed to beat WI in 79’.

But this IND test team is the best since the ATG SA team. It beats the ENG team that won in IND because they have better bowlers (fast+spin).
 
he mentioned sustainability, so you prove his point, as pakistan's number 1 ranking lacked sustainability.

I agree with that bit - and that's my point. You can't judge everything on paper. In fact my point goes even further, that Pakistan should not have even been No1 then. So it's not only sustainability, the rankings are just inaccurate.

That's my unbiased opinion as a Pakistani
 
But it's not necessarily based on reality. It doesn't tell you what happened in the matches or the level of dominance. No statistics can tell you that. And then every so often the time period changes and the rankings change wildly.

I say this because even though Pakistan touched no1 in 2016, I personally didn't think that was accurate. We were not the best team in the world at that time for sure. No point doing somersaults over ranking points. If you are great, it will just be unanimous.

The Windies of the late 70s/80s didn't need ranking points to prove they were the best, neither did the Aussies of 2000s

All of us could see that Misbah side was not really that great - Ranking trend reflected that as well. Sides don't occupy the top spot with 110-111 points for long. Even now, Aus, NZ and Ind - 3 teams are in 115-120 range.

Top teams have gone to 120+ points and also maintained it for some periods.


Aus and WI did maintain rank 1 for an extended period. Rank is not coming out of a vacuum. It's coming out of their sustained performance. Yes, Agree fully that you did not need to look at ranking to say that they were rank 1 because they were simply too good.

But if you can maintain rank 1 for many years then you have to be a quality side. As I said, rank is simply a function of the past few years of performance. I won't totally go by rank due to some flaws, but if you can maintain it for long period, then it's a very good data point to judge the quality of sides. Any ordinary side can not maintain a high rating for years.

Now I won't simply look at peak rating to order teams. Era's is different. But I won't ignore it as well.
 
I agree with that bit - and that's my point. You can't judge everything on paper. In fact my point goes even further, that Pakistan should not have even been No1 then. So it's not only sustainability, the rankings are just inaccurate.

That's my unbiased opinion as a Pakistani

Rankings are accurate. One just needs to correctly interpret them. Top ranking along with long reign is hallmark of great teams. Top ranking for couple of weeks doesn't mean a top team and rightly so.
 
I agree with that bit - and that's my point. You can't judge everything on paper. In fact my point goes even further, that Pakistan should not have even been No1 then. So it's not only sustainability, the rankings are just inaccurate.

Individual ranking can be more flawed at a specific time, but the sustained ranking is a lot less flawed. I don't read much into peak rating in isolation, but if you can maintain peak rating for long period then something to notice. It's true in any sport.

Due to home/away scheduling and teams you are going to play, you could come on top for a few months like Misbah's team did, but sustaining it will require a much higher output.
 
No doubt Pakistan in the same situation would have lost the match. I have seen Pakistan under Misbah collapse numerous times on flat wickets in 1-2 sessions where the pitches are doing nothing because of the lack of mental strength and resilience against an opposition going all out against you. No doubt India's achievement here is nothing short of fantastic.

However lets also keep it in perspective that the pitch had significantly flattened out with no pace, bounce left anymore and any turn was pretty slow. In such conditions, a top 3 ranked team should be able to comfortably bat out a draw with blockathon. If India had managed to do the same on a swinging, seaming headingly day 5 pitch against the likes of Anderson, Broad and co, i would highlight it as an even bigger achievement.
 
No doubt Pakistan in the same situation would have lost the match. I have seen Pakistan under Misbah collapse numerous times on flat wickets in 1-2 sessions where the pitches are doing nothing because of the lack of mental strength and resilience against an opposition going all out against you. No doubt India's achievement here is nothing short of fantastic.

However lets also keep it in perspective that the pitch had significantly flattened out with no pace, bounce left anymore and any turn was pretty slow. In such conditions, a top 3 ranked team should be able to comfortably bat out a draw with blockathon. If India had managed to do the same on a swinging, seaming headingly day 5 pitch against the likes of Anderson, Broad and co, i would highlight it as an even bigger achievement.

dunno what you are talking about. that Headingley pitch had become a batting paradise by day 5. Aussie bowlers were getting nothing out of it. In this test, at least there was some inconsistent bounce to deal with and the food delivery was seaming like the pujara dismissal which also kept a bit low.
 
July ratings are from the beginning of July before 12th July update and August ratings are after Pak lost the series in England 3-0. You think losing a series 3-0 can increase their rating points from 109 in July to 112 points in August? Come on.

You have a point here. I looked at it closely and Pakistan drew one test in July and probably also lost another before end of July. So they must have gotten to 120 in July 12th and then dropped by the end of the July.
 
India Away against ENG, SA, AUS, NZ ... 2010-2020. India has lost 10/11 away series against top sides. Only one win came against Australia "C"

India in ENG ... Lost 4-0 (2011)
India in AUS ... lost 4-0 (2011)
India in SA ... Lost 1-0 (2013)
India in NZ ... Lost 1-0 (2013)
India in ENG ... Lost 3-1 (2014)
India in AUS ... Lost 2-0 (2014)
India in SA ... Lost 2-1 (2017)
India in England ... Lost 4-1 (2018)
India in AUS ... Win 2-1
India in NZ ... Lost 2-0 (2019)
India in AUS ... (2020-2021) 1-1 so far but can be Lost 2-1 in few days.

ROFL-COPTER on the greatest Asian side label by hype master fans. In 10 years which saw rise of Dhoni as captain and then Kohli, India has managed to win one away series against top sides when the opposition was turmoiled and had to put out a C team. I know fans like to hype but cmon ...

Also India missed to face Pakistan during Misbah UAE fortress era or it could have been another away loss. No way Misbahs UAE fortress was to be brought down by India.
 
- Longest ever reign at the top of the Test rankings by an Asian team.

- longest ever reign at the top of the Test rankings in 2010 decade.

- 33 wins as Test captain for Kohli (4th most in history, 19 more than Imran Khan)

- first Asian team to win a Test series in Australia. Their batting wasn’t great, but 99% of Asian teams from any era would not win a Test series in Australia against an attack of Starc, Cummins, Hazlewood and Lyon, which is one of the greatest attacks Australia has assembled apart from its golden generation.

- At worst, they will only lose the ongoing series 2-1, which is far from a bad result considered how depleted they are.

- in the Kohli era, they have established themselves as one of the strongest home teams in history. They have only lost 1 Test at home in 6 years.

- their own failures were England 2018 and New Zealand 2019. The South African series in 2018 was played on the most bowling-friendly pitches in history.

It is the only series in history where every single wicket in every single innings fell. That series was basically decided by whoever batted first. Faf won the first two tosses and won both Tests, Kohli won the third toss and won the third Test.

India would have won that series 2-1 if they would have two tosses.

When it comes to tangible results, this team has surpassed all Asian teams of the past. However, when it comes to fairytales, myths and exaggerations, they will always come up short against Imran’s Pakistan.

If this Indian team wins in England, South Africa or New Zealand in the future, they will only enhance their legacy and widen the gap between them and the next greatest Asian team.
 
Oh here we go india only losted these away series because of coin tosses. Indian fans usual default excuse.

Tears are flowing. Mamoon please write a letter to ICC on behalf of BCCI and demand india get automatic coin toss win on all future series.

Yep 1 series win in SENA in last 10 years. All hail the might indians!
 
SA tests are always played on bowler friendly surfaces, when exactly have they produced roads?

I guess indias 36 all out in 1st test vs Aus must have been due to coin toss.

SL managed to be SA in south africa. Yet this great indian team couldnt.
 
Oh here we go india only losted these away series because of coin tosses. Indian fans usual default excuse.

Tears are flowing. Mamoon please write a letter to ICC on behalf of BCCI and demand india get automatic coin toss win on all future series.

Yep 1 series win in SENA in last 10 years. All hail the might indians!

and that 1 series win came against the C team Aussies.

Kohlis india will get thrashed by Gangulys India and Imrans Pak. I dont like giving opinions as I rather go by stats but I am 100 % sure Kohlis india would lose against Misbahs Pak in UAE too.

Anyways ... India lost 10/11 away series in last 10 years. The 33 test win drama is a result of home wins and against minnows on away tours.

Here is another Gem ... India failed to win Against Bangladesh on away tour too in same span of time.
 
Everyone will remember the test series wins kohli lead india to in england, NZ and SA. Am sure his grandkids cant wait for those stories.
 
No I meant the return series when India tours England in August will be a cracker. I believe we have the team to win in England this time...lets see.

You had the team to win in 2018 but Kohli and Shastri didn't engage their brains.

Playing 2 spinners on a wet Lord's pitch was criminal, didn't play Pujara in the 1st Test, Dhawan had no business opening against the Dukes ball, and to have England 80-7 time and again only for Sam Curran of all people to rescue the opposition is a big black mark on their judgment.

England won that series 4-1 but India should've won 3-2.
 
Please care to explain why gangulays india is better than the 1980s pak team.

Ganguly won 21 out of 49 matches-win% 43
Imran won 14 out of 48 matches-win% 29

Too bad with all them zazba, daleri, cornered tiger, hidden dragon etc Imran could manage to win only 14 tests. Not a top 2 material no matter how much you spin it.
 
Ganguly won 21 out of 49 matches-win% 43
Imran won 14 out of 48 matches-win% 29

Too bad with all them zazba, daleri, cornered tiger, hidden dragon etc Imran could manage to win only 14 tests. Not a top 2 material no matter how much you spin it.

Im not talking about imrans pakistan or bhattis pakistan. Im talking of the pak mentioned by mamoon 1982 till 1990. If you want to talk about wins in that period which was ridden with draw pak won 23 matches . Also you ignored 2000 till 2005 india WL ratio of barely 1.2 nd 1980s pak WL ratio of nearly 1.8.
 
Ganguly won 21 out of 49 matches-win% 43
Imran won 14 out of 48 matches-win% 29

Too bad with all them zazba, daleri, cornered tiger, hidden dragon etc Imran could manage to win only 14 tests. Not a top 2 material no matter how much you spin it.

How do you explain 10/11 SENA away losing Indian team being called greatest asian side by hype master Indian fans and their minion trolls ?

Ganguly Indians faced minnow WI and weak ENG, NZ while Imran had to face the wrath of ATG WI and strong ENG. Two teams from different era cant just be compared. I havent looked into proper stats but I will. This thread is about Indian team being greatest asian test side and I showed how much they have lost in bulk in last 10 years and are continuing to do so. Indian answer to that "pakistan has lost more" lol ...
 
Across eras you can’t even compare it is very silly, but if I had to do a fantasy match up

Let’s start of with Pakistan bowling

The current Indian fast bowling lot are probably the best at getting “natural” reverse swing (key emphasis on the word natural) even more than their current Pakistan counterparts so don’t think there is going to be that much difference in the fast bowling.

I really don’t think that Imran Khan was any more hostile than Starc or Cummins.

Wasim might be a threat but we are still talking about inexperienced Wasim

Who else? Sarfaraz Nawaz bowling to the likes of Rohit and Kohli :))

Spin department Abdul Qadir was great and might trouble the current day Indian batsman and I would say Pakistan batsman of that era will handle Ashwin and Jadeja better, no doubt.

I would also like to see Javed bhai and Salim Malik try steal quick singles to rotate strike against Jadeja,Pandya,Pandey,Aggarwal and co. Lol

We tend to over rate teams from the past. They had their good qualities but forget India or Australia , I am sure current day England and Newzealand or even current day SA (with their weakest team) might easily beat the 80’s Pakistan team
 
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Across eras you can’t even compare it is very silly, but if I had to do a fantasy match up

Let’s start of with Pakistan bowling

The current Indian fast bowling lot are probably the best at getting “natural” reverse swing (key emphasis on the word natural) even more than their current Pakistan counterparts so don’t think there is going to be that much difference in the fast bowling.

I really don’t think that Imran Khan was any more hostile than Starc or Cummins.

Wasim might be a threat but we are still talking about inexperienced Wasim

Who else? Sarfaraz Nawaz bowling to the likes of Rohit and Kohli :))

Spin department Abdul Qadir was great and might trouble the current day Indian batsman and I would say Pakistan batsman of that era will handle Ashwin and Jadeja better, no doubt.

I would also like to see Javed bhai and Salim Malik try steal quick singles to rotate strike against Jadeja,Pandya,Pandey,Aggarwal and co. Lol

We tend to over rate teams from the past. They had their good qualities but forget India or Australia , I am sure current day England and Newzealand or even current day SA (with their weakest team) might easily beat the 80’s Pakistan team

Imran’s team includes a peak Akram and Waqar. That’s vastly superior to any of the fast bowlers IND has right now. And Imran wasn’t an enforcer like Cummins or Starc, he got most wickets with in-swing.

Spin department is weak but not terribly so. Remember, this Indian team got blown by Lyon, so Tauseef and Qadir would skittle them like butter considering that expert spin players like Gavaskar lost a series to them at home.

Batting and fielding, you are correct. Except for Miandad, the dude could rotate strike against the WI team that was just as fit as this IND team, so he could do the same.

But you mentioned the fact that comparing eras is silly and that’s true because fielding standards 30 years ago were not the same as they are now. And Imran was a hard taskmaster and would have ensured that the hands catch to what comes their way a majority of the time.
 
I still think Indian team of 2002/3 is the greatest Asian team ever. Drawn against an ATG Aus side in Aus and then a supremely competitive 2-1. Won in Eng and NZ. That team had the greatest batting lineup I have ever seen, only probably Aus 2000-05 come close. Sehwag, Gambhir, Sachin, Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman, Dhoni...just insane batting lineup.

Lol no Warne or McGrath.

With the likes of Brad Williams/Nathan Brachen bowling pies
 
Greatest Asian team of all time is very very debatable.

Greatest Asian test team in the last 21 years? Possibly.
 
If we win @ Gabba then yes probably our greatest turn around series victory eclipsing 2001. Best part is now I see our players give it back to Aussies when sledged, it was definetely not the case till 2015. Only Bhajji, Gambhir used to do that from prev X.

If that happens, probably greatest comeback in test history.
 
India Away against ENG, SA, AUS, NZ ... 2010-2020. India has lost 10/11 away series against top sides. Only one win came against Australia "C"

India in ENG ... Lost 4-0 (2011)
India in AUS ... lost 4-0 (2011)
India in SA ... Lost 1-0 (2013)
India in NZ ... Lost 1-0 (2013)
India in ENG ... Lost 3-1 (2014)
India in AUS ... Lost 2-0 (2014)
India in SA ... Lost 2-1 (2017)
India in England ... Lost 4-1 (2018)
India in AUS ... Win 2-1
India in NZ ... Lost 2-0 (2019)
India in AUS ... (2020-2021) 1-1 so far but can be Lost 2-1 in few days.

ROFL-COPTER on the greatest Asian side label by hype master fans. In 10 years which saw rise of Dhoni as captain and then Kohli, India has managed to win one away series against top sides when the opposition was turmoiled and had to put out a C team. I know fans like to hype but cmon ...

Also India missed to face Pakistan during Misbah UAE fortress era or it could have been another away loss. No way Misbahs UAE fortress was to be brought down by India.

Misbah would have wiped the floor with India and its IPL sooperstars :yk

Bonus:

 
Across eras you can’t even compare it is very silly, but if I had to do a fantasy match up

Let’s start of with Pakistan bowling

The current Indian fast bowling lot are probably the best at getting “natural” reverse swing (key emphasis on the word natural) even more than their current Pakistan counterparts so don’t think there is going to be that much difference in the fast bowling.

I really don’t think that Imran Khan was any more hostile than Starc or Cummins.

Wasim might be a threat but we are still talking about inexperienced Wasim

Who else? Sarfaraz Nawaz bowling to the likes of Rohit and Kohli :))

Spin department Abdul Qadir was great and might trouble the current day Indian batsman and I would say Pakistan batsman of that era will handle Ashwin and Jadeja better, no doubt.

I would also like to see Javed bhai and Salim Malik try steal quick singles to rotate strike against Jadeja,Pandya,Pandey,Aggarwal and co. Lol

We tend to over rate teams from the past. They had their good qualities but forget India or Australia , I am sure current day England and Newzealand or even current day SA (with their weakest team) might easily beat the 80’s Pakistan team

Kids these days honestly. People forget Imran was in the top 3 bowlers throughout the 80s along with Hadlee and Marshall. He was also seriously quick when he wanted to be and hostile too. At peak he is arguably Pakistan’s best bowler ever. Just because he was an allrounder, people forget what a great bowler he was.

With all the chest beating about the current Indian pacers. None of them are better or quicker than Imran and Wasim (yes even a young wasim). If Amir can outfox both Kohli and Rohit I shudder to think what Imran and Wasim would do them. The current Indian batting is no better than the 1982 formidable lineup of gavasker, Viswanath, vengsarksar and amaranth - Imran destroyed them all single handedly. And nice try about Sarfraz - he hardly played in the 80s and was mainly a force in the 70s.

Miandad was for a few years the best batsman in the world too and when he wasn’t he was probably top 3. Salim Malik (Warne’s Daddy) would have devoured these wannabe current Indian spinners.

And if Moeen Ali can destroy these Indian batsmen in England of all places, Qadir would send them packing even quicker
 
Its Pakistan all the way as the GOAT! - Never doubt the cornered tigers. :ik:pkflag
 
Asian teams sorted out by Win Loss ratios in each decade starting from 1980.

1. India ( 2010-2019, W/L ratio of 1.9)

2. Pakistan ( From 1980-1989, W/L ratio of 1.76)

3 Pakistan ( From 1990-1999, W/L ratio 1.53)

4. India (From 2000-2009, W/L ratio of 1.48)

So going by the W/L ratios, India of 2010's is the best Asian team ever followed by Pak of 1980's.
 
Asian teams sorted out by Win Loss ratios in each decade starting from 1980.

1. India ( 2010-2019, W/L ratio of 1.9)

2. Pakistan ( From 1980-1989, W/L ratio of 1.76)

3 Pakistan ( From 1990-1999, W/L ratio 1.53)

4. India (From 2000-2009, W/L ratio of 1.48)

So going by the W/L ratios, India of 2010's is the best Asian team ever followed by Pak of 1980's.

This is a better and more logical list than the one posted my mamoon.
 
Are people really fighting over who had the greatest asian test team, which has only two countries of any test pedigree.

I would be happy if india is best among the teams who challenged australia at their peak.
 
Are people really fighting over who had the greatest asian test team, which has only two countries of any test pedigree.

I would be happy if india is best among the teams who challenged australia at their peak.

This thread is basically another india vs pakistan thread started by a postor who is known for his bias for one country and bias against the other.
 
This thread is basically another india vs pakistan thread started by a postor who is known for his bias for one country and bias against the other.

There should not be any india vs pakistan. I am fine if someone declares Pakistan as the greatest asian test country. It is hardly anything to be proud of.
 
Kids these days honestly. People forget Imran was in the top 3 bowlers throughout the 80s along with Hadlee and Marshall. He was also seriously quick when he wanted to be and hostile too. At peak he is arguably Pakistan’s best bowler ever. Just because he was an allrounder, people forget what a great bowler he was.

With all the chest beating about the current Indian pacers. None of them are better or quicker than Imran and Wasim (yes even a young wasim). If Amir can outfox both Kohli and Rohit I shudder to think what Imran and Wasim would do them. The current Indian batting is no better than the 1982 formidable lineup of gavasker, Viswanath, vengsarksar and amaranth - Imran destroyed them all single handedly. And nice try about Sarfraz - he hardly played in the 80s and was mainly a force in the 70s.

Miandad was for a few years the best batsman in the world too and when he wasn’t he was probably top 3. Salim Malik (Warne’s Daddy) would have devoured these wannabe current Indian spinners.

And if Moeen Ali can destroy these Indian batsmen in England of all places, Qadir would send them packing even quicker


Your analysis assumes Imran is better than hazel wood , miandad better than smith etc

I have seen several great test sides and this indian team is third best test cricket team barring the mighty West Indians and the aussies led by warne

A team thrives on collective strength and this indian team has collective and bench strength .

Rohit agrawal and gill now as openers
Pujara , rahane , kohli , rahul as middle order
Jadeja and pandya and ashwin - spinners : all rounders
Saha and pant wk keeper batsmen . 5 other equally competent batters / wicketkeepers in domestic circuit
Bumrah .sharma . Shami . Unmesh . Siraj . Saini .
( Tyagi krishna thampi natrajan ... the u-19 stars are yet to even get in a look though they are genuine quick )

The above list shows the depth . This team has the luxury of benching a prodigy like shaw .
What is missing -

This team does lack a genuine leg spinner - bishnoi in wings

It’s a privelege to watch this team . In tests I have not seen a better asian team . They can likely become at par with the Aussie and wi teams if they win a series in New Zealand and South Africa .no other team had as many substitutes as this team does . No kohli ? Sharma is back . No ishant ? We can still beat u .

Finally the mentality is never say never . 36 all out and then to win a match is an unheard feat . It’s like they play with positivity each time they play .
 
Your analysis assumes Imran is better than hazel wood , miandad better than smith etc

I have seen several great test sides and this indian team is third best test cricket team barring the mighty West Indians and the aussies led by warne

A team thrives on collective strength and this indian team has collective and bench strength .

Rohit agrawal and gill now as openers
Pujara , rahane , kohli , rahul as middle order
Jadeja and pandya and ashwin - spinners : all rounders
Saha and pant wk keeper batsmen . 5 other equally competent batters / wicketkeepers in domestic circuit
Bumrah .sharma . Shami . Unmesh . Siraj . Saini .
( Tyagi krishna thampi natrajan ... the u-19 stars are yet to even get in a look though they are genuine quick )

The above list shows the depth . This team has the luxury of benching a prodigy like shaw .
What is missing -

This team does lack a genuine leg spinner - bishnoi in wings

It’s a privelege to watch this team . In tests I have not seen a better asian team . They can likely become at par with the Aussie and wi teams if they win a series in New Zealand and South Africa .no other team had as many substitutes as this team does . No kohli ? Sharma is back . No ishant ? We can still beat u .

Finally the mentality is never say never . 36 all out and then to win a match is an unheard feat . It’s like they play with positivity each time they play .
This team isn't 3rd best after Aus and WI. South Africa from 2007-2014 is easily better than them. That SA team was unbeaten in away series for 9 years from 2006-2015. That says it all really.
 
This team isn't 3rd best after Aus and WI. South Africa from 2007-2014 is easily better than them. That SA team was unbeaten in away series for 9 years from 2006-2015. That says it all really.

Unbeaten away but not unbeaten at home. Truly strong sides never lose a series at home. They might underperform in a match or two, but over the course of a series, their batsmen and bowlers will always overpower the opposition batsmen and bowlers in their own conditions.

Every truly great side in history was immensely strong at home. Even the legendary West Indies and the legendary Australia had a few bad series away from home, but they never surrendered at home.

Kohli’s India have only lost 1 Test at home in 6 years. That is phenomenal dominance.
 
Unbeaten away but not unbeaten at home. Truly strong sides never lose a series at home. They might underperform in a match or two, but over the course of a series, their batsmen and bowlers will always overpower the opposition batsmen and bowlers in their own conditions.

Every truly great side in history was immensely strong at home. Even the legendary West Indies and the legendary Australia had a few bad series away from home, but they never surrendered at home.

Kohli’s India have only lost 1 Test at home in 6 years. That is phenomenal dominance.

SA only lost to Australia twice at home in that period (2009 and 2014), but their away record is phenomenal. They won away series everywhere. Won in Australia twice ( 2008 and 2012), won in England twice ( 2008 and 2012), won in NZ in 2012, won in SRL in 2014. Only places, they didn't win a series were India and the UAE. But even in India they drew twice (2008 and 2010), also drew with Pakistan in UAE twice (2010 and 2013). But they did beat Pakistan in Pakistan in 2007.

I will take being unbeaten away for 9 years over unbeaten home record any day of the week. And its not like SA lost many home series. They only lost 2 home series to Aus, which is forgivable given their away record is at par with WI of 80's and Aus of 2000's.
 
South african conditions are pretty sporting wicket wise so would be harder to win at home all the time. Most other teams doctor wickets to suit there own needs.
 
SA only lost to Australia twice at home in that period (2009 and 2014), but their away record is phenomenal. They won away series everywhere. Won in Australia twice ( 2008 and 2012), won in England twice ( 2008 and 2012), won in NZ in 2012, won in SRL in 2014. Only places, they didn't win a series were India and the UAE. But even in India they drew twice (2008 and 2010), also drew with Pakistan in UAE twice (2010 and 2013). But they did beat Pakistan in Pakistan in 2007.

I will take being unbeaten away for 9 years over unbeaten home record any day of the week. And its not like SA lost many home series. They only lost 2 home series to Aus, which is forgivable given their away record is at par with WI of 80's and Aus of 2000's.

Australia in 2009 and 2014 was nothing special. If South Africa were as strong as you made them out to be, they wouldn’t have lost at home to that side.

Smith’s South Africa would comfortably lose to Kohli’s India in India.
 
Most other teams doctor wickets to suit there own needs.

A run-of-the-mill excuse that doesn’t hold up to close scrutiny. The best example of the dominance of this Indian team at home is the England series in 2016.

It was played on flat wickets and England won the toss and batted first 4 out of 5 times. They posted first innings scores of 450+ regularly and still lost 4-0.

Against any other team, if England win the toss 4 out of 5 times and post 450+ regularly, they would at least win a couple of matches if not take the series. That is how brutally dominant Kohli’s India have been.
 
A run-of-the-mill excuse that doesn’t hold up to close scrutiny. The best example of the dominance of this Indian team at home is the England series in 2016.

It was played on flat wickets and England won the toss and batted first 4 out of 5 times. They posted first innings scores of 450+ regularly and still lost 4-0.

Against any other team, if England win the toss 4 out of 5 times and post 450+ regularly, they would at least win a couple of matches if not take the series. That is how brutally dominant Kohli’s India have been.

All you keep going on and on about is your beloved indias home record. Why dont you give us a breakdown of there 11 series in SENA in last 10 years and how they have been exposed overall and HTB. Living off 1 series win vs Aussie C team.
 
This team isn't 3rd best after Aus and WI. South Africa from 2007-2014 is easily better than them. That SA team was unbeaten in away series for 9 years from 2006-2015. That says it all really.

That south African side had few issues - lack of quality spinner and lack of ability to play good spinners . Ashwin will eat them fir breakfast. It was a good side though - perhaps the strongest sa side since they came in
 
Feel Imran’s pakistan was better than ganguly india only cos of fast bowling superiority . Ganguly had zaheer , nehra munaf and sreesanth and irfan at varying times but never a threatening attack like Imran had .
In test matches Bowlers win you matches and Imran had a v v good bowling unit .
 
There was not much doubt over their legacy after occupying the number 1 spot for longer than any Asian team and Virat Kohli amassing a record 33 Test wins as captain, but the skill and mentality that they have shown in this series clears any doubts over their status as the best Asian Test team of all time.

A disastrous session at Adelaide, the media and the fans from all over the cricket-verse making fun of them and the likes of Warne predicting a 4-0 demolition.

Kohli leaving and getting criticized for it, Shami getting injured, a few players getting criticized for dining out and not following COVID protocols as well as for eating beef.

Terribly biased home umpiring, racial abuse, Steve Smith cheating again, Pant playing a Gilchrist-esque knock after getting injured, Vihari getting injured and fighting it out, Ashwin copping blows on the body and carrying on, Jadeja getting injured but padded up to fight it out.........and yet, the series is 1-1 after 3 Tests.

The way they got the 36/9 out of their system and thrashed Australia at the MCG, the way they saved this Test with sheer grit after being dead and buried shows the resilience of this incredible team.

This is the competitiveness and resilience that Virat Kohli, the most successful Asian Test captain of all time, has instilled in Team India after Dhoni took them backwards in Test cricket.

Dhoni’s team would have been mentally wrecked by now and would have rolled over for 4-0 after all that this Indian team has been through on this tour.

Kohli is not around but you can see the impact his leadership has had on the belief of these players, and his legacy will continue to live long after he has retired.

People who are hyping up Rahane’s captaincy need to understand that if a timid character like him was the captain over the last 6 years, there is no way India would be in this position today.

No other team in the world today would be 1-1 after 3 Tests in Australia after what India had to put up with, let alone against an ATG worthy attack of Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood and Lyon.


Also, Shastri deserves credit as well. He is a fantastic motivator with an arrogant, confident personality who is quite good at blocking criticism and keeping his players focused.

Few years back when Kumble got the coaching job, Shastri also applied and appeared for his interview drunk, and he was heavily criticized by Ganguly and other BCCI members who were on the panel, but that did not faze him and he became Indian coach later at Kohli’s recommendation.

When you have a team like India and a captain like Kohli, a nosy coach is counterproductive. That is why Shastri is so good for this Indian team, he understands his role perfectly and has helped build an environment where the players thrive mentally.

Regardless of what happens in the final Test, Team India has proved why it is an elite cricket team.

As a Pakistani, I really wish we could have half the talent, half the skill and half the mentality this Indian team has.

Phenomenal stuff.


Greatest Asian Team? Not much of an award when you are only 1 of the 3 teams. Srilanka has never been #1 (even with the retroactive model). I meant no offence to Afghanistan and Bangladesh one just started and other has still to become a force in Test cricket.

The result is what 1-1 that is not even a win. But yes the Indian test team is good and have done well to be in this spot. Pakistan twice did 1-1 against Australia in the 70s. India win a series in Australia but that was against a weakened side.

India gets to play so many tests so no doubt they will have more wins. And they will improve because they have been to Australia for far more tests. Pakistan gets half the tests (that too mostly against weaker sides ) and then they couldn't even play at home. UAE was not home. Playing in UAE produced bowlers who are Only Good in UAE like Yasir Shah etc.

And also why celebrate something that has not been decided yet?
The decisive test is yet to be played.
I agree India is much superior side now to Pakistan. But it is not a level playing field. it will years for Pakistan to Develop. International cricket is just only starting to return
 
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A run-of-the-mill excuse that doesn’t hold up to close scrutiny. The best example of the dominance of this Indian team at home is the England series in 2016.

It was played on flat wickets and England won the toss and batted first 4 out of 5 times. They posted first innings scores of 450+ regularly and still lost 4-0.

Against any other team, if England win the toss 4 out of 5 times and post 450+ regularly, they would at least win a couple of matches if not take the series. That is how brutally dominant Kohli’s India have been.

You're trying too hard bete - maybe a new approach is required. I think you can do better. Take a step back, and approach with a clearer mind
 
Your analysis assumes Imran is better than hazel wood , miandad better than smith etc

Of course! Hazelwood is nowhere near Imran Khan and Smith is not a Javed. I'm assuming you've never seen Imran and Javed play. Smith is doing well, but eras mate, eras!
 
Pakistan under Imran lost to Sri Lanka and only drew with West Indies when they din't have the pace quartlet and best batsman. They are overrated.

Virat's india would pummel them in Asia especially now with good technical players and elite bowlers.
 
Of course! Hazelwood is nowhere near Imran Khan and Smith is not a Javed. I'm assuming you've never seen Imran and Javed play. Smith is doing well, but eras mate, eras!

Cummins is a better bowler than Imran and Smith is better than javedm don't kid yourself.
 
All you keep going on and on about is your beloved indias home record. Why dont you give us a breakdown of there 11 series in SENA in last 10 years and how they have been exposed overall and HTB. Living off 1 series win vs Aussie C team.

Aussie C. I think your India hate is clouding your judgement. All those players average well above 40 in Australia. The ones who played. Don't be silly.
 
Cummins is a better bowler than Imran and Smith is better than javedm don't kid yourself.

On what basis? Give me a good reason why? They won’t become better just because you say so. Cummins is good, but Imran was one of the greatest bowlers of all time. Imran was quicker, swung the new and old ball more and with greater regularity. Moreover he was a pioneer, and a certified matchwinner.

I like watching Cummins bowl but if he was so great England should never have won the headingley test and india should have never drawn this recent match.

So you guys have tried Hazelwood, now Cummins. Anyone else?

Javed vs Smith is closer, but you saw how smith struggled with archer’s short ball. Now imagine 4 archers steaming in at Smith with no limits on bouncers. Javed’s 2 centuries vs WI in WI in the 88 series - smith wouldn’t be able to do that.

Smith is the best batsman of this era, but he wouldn’t have survived in the 80s era. In fact, none of the current generation of batsmen would.
 
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On what basis? Give me a good reason why? They won’t become better just because you say so. Cummins is good, but Imran was one of the greatest bowlers of all time. Imran was quicker, swung the new and old ball more and with greater regularity. Moreover he was a pioneer, and a certified matchwinner.

I like watching Cummins bowl but if he was so great England should never have won the headingley test and india should have never drawn this recent match.

So you guys have tried Hazelwood, now Cummins. Anyone else?

Javed vs Smith is closer, but you saw how smith struggled with archer’s short ball. Now imagine 4 archers steaming in at Smith with no limits on bouncers. Javed’s 2 centuries vs WI in WI in the 88 series - smith wouldn’t be able to do that.

Smith is the best batsman of this era, but he wouldn’t have survived in the 80s era. In fact, none of the current generation of batsmen would.

These great insights should be taken seriously by all younger fans. 80s era with IK was simply too good. Smith/Kohli/Kane etc would have been sitting ducks and wouldn't have survived.

Cummins has not been able to win 2 matches(Headingley and Sydney test) but IK and bowlers of 80s won everything that was there to be won. That era was something different.
 
On what basis? Give me a good reason why? They won’t become better just because you say so. Cummins is good, but Imran was one of the greatest bowlers of all time. Imran was quicker, swung the new and old ball more and with greater regularity. Moreover he was a pioneer, and a certified matchwinner.

I like watching Cummins bowl but if he was so great England should never have won the headingley test and india should have never drawn this recent match.

So you guys have tried Hazelwood, now Cummins. Anyone else?

Javed vs Smith is closer, but you saw how smith struggled with archer’s short ball. Now imagine 4 archers steaming in at Smith with no limits on bouncers. Javed’s 2 centuries vs WI in WI in the 88 series - smith wouldn’t be able to do that.

Smith is the best batsman of this era, but he wouldn’t have survived in the 80s era. In fact, none of the current generation of batsmen would.

Imran was quicker? He played in an era riddled with faulty speed guns. Unless you juxtapose him in modern era you can't say he is better than Cummins. Cummins has much better bouncer, variation and dear factor. Imo he is better than Imran in bowling.

Maybe credit should be given to Indian batsmen and english batting as well to neutralize England.

How do you know modern players won't hack it in past era.

I can say the same about past era not being able to handle it in modern era when you ar required to play all 3 formats. Also, modern bowling is far superior where now everyone can handle pace better.

Smith is greater than any batsman of any era. Bowling in current era with rule restrictions regarding bouncers, data analysis, advanced tech, tapes to gameplan with, drs, unbiased umpiring, no ball tampering etc all favour modern players.

You play whoever is in front of you. It is futile compare era's but if you must I can say bowling is better now. You can claim batting is superior but I can say current era's high quality bowling makes even world class batsmen quiver and struggle.
 
These great insights should be taken seriously by all younger fans. 80s era with IK was simply too good. Smith/Kohli/Kane etc would have been sitting ducks and wouldn't have survived.

Cummins has not been able to win 2 matches(Headingley and Sydney test) but IK and bowlers of 80s won everything that was there to be won. That era was something different.

Yea because great players can never adpat to a different era. This delusional and nostalgic approach is why Pakistanis are behind in cricket now.

You guys were good in 80s and 90s. Doesn't mean those teams would excel vs modern teams. Or vice versa. You don't know that. You have no proof. T20 has changed the dynamics of cricket. Players have to adapt to three formats and train for three formats from a young age.
 
Javed vs Smith is closer, but you saw how smith struggled with archer’s short ball. Now imagine 4 archers steaming in at Smith with no limits on bouncers. Javed’s 2 centuries vs WI in WI in the 88 series - smith wouldn’t be able to do that.

Except that Garner, Holding and Roberts had all retired before that series took place. And Miandad has a career average of 29 against the West Indies. You think Smith couldn't have bettered that?

TheSultan said:
Smith is the best batsman of this era, but he wouldn’t have survived in the 80s era. In fact, none of the current generation of batsmen would.

:))) :))) Keep it coming.
 
Lol no Warne or McGrath.

With the likes of Brad Williams/Nathan Brachen bowling pies

Pakistan won one test in WI in 1987.

No Viv, No Marshall in that test. WI had a rookie test attack. Yet Pakistanis make so much about it and point out flaws in other's victories.
 
Pakistan won one test in WI in 1987.

No Viv, No Marshall in that test. WI had a rookie test attack. Yet Pakistanis make so much about it and point out flaws in other's victories.

Add to that, Holding, Garner and Roberts had all retired by then.
 
A reminder and this has been said before, Ambrose, Walsh, and Patterson took part in that 88’ series.

Walsh made his debut in 84’ and was already a reputable fast bowler with success all over the world.

Ambrose made his Test debut but he ripped Pakistan apart beforehand during the ODI series and would terrorize AUS and ENG away, right after the tour. It just shows that the PAK batsmen played him well when he struggled at home.

Patterson had debuted in 86’ and proved his worth by being the WI’s best bowler in IND before the tour. And he would be an enforcer (was overshadowed by Marshal and Ambrose) later on the same tours to AUS and ENG mentioned beforehand.

And Richards and Marshall DID play the series but missed the Test match that PAK won at Georgetown.

And PAK’s achievement was not losing ONE series to the WI in the 80’s. Nobody else can say that.

G.O.A.T Asian Test team. End of.
 
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There was not much doubt over their legacy after occupying the number 1 spot for longer than any Asian team and Virat Kohli amassing a record 33 Test wins as captain, but the skill and mentality that they have shown in this series clears any doubts over their status as the best Asian Test team of all time.

A disastrous session at Adelaide, the media and the fans from all over the cricket-verse making fun of them and the likes of Warne predicting a 4-0 demolition.

Kohli leaving and getting criticized for it, Shami getting injured, a few players getting criticized for dining out and not following COVID protocols as well as for eating beef.

Terribly biased home umpiring, racial abuse, Steve Smith cheating again, Pant playing a Gilchrist-esque knock after getting injured, Vihari getting injured and fighting it out, Ashwin copping blows on the body and carrying on, Jadeja getting injured but padded up to fight it out.........and yet, the series is 1-1 after 3 Tests.

The way they got the 36/9 out of their system and thrashed Australia at the MCG, the way they saved this Test with sheer grit after being dead and buried shows the resilience of this incredible team.

This is the competitiveness and resilience that Virat Kohli, the most successful Asian Test captain of all time, has instilled in Team India after Dhoni took them backwards in Test cricket.

Dhoni’s team would have been mentally wrecked by now and would have rolled over for 4-0 after all that this Indian team has been through on this tour.

Kohli is not around but you can see the impact his leadership has had on the belief of these players, and his legacy will continue to live long after he has retired.

People who are hyping up Rahane’s captaincy need to understand that if a timid character like him was the captain over the last 6 years, there is no way India would be in this position today.

No other team in the world today would be 1-1 after 3 Tests in Australia after what India had to put up with, let alone against an ATG worthy attack of Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood and Lyon.


Also, Shastri deserves credit as well. He is a fantastic motivator with an arrogant, confident personality who is quite good at blocking criticism and keeping his players focused.

Few years back when Kumble got the coaching job, Shastri also applied and appeared for his interview drunk, and he was heavily criticized by Ganguly and other BCCI members who were on the panel, but that did not faze him and he became Indian coach later at Kohli’s recommendation.

When you have a team like India and a captain like Kohli, a nosy coach is counterproductive. That is why Shastri is so good for this Indian team, he understands his role perfectly and has helped build an environment where the players thrive mentally.

Regardless of what happens in the final Test, Team India has proved why it is an elite cricket team.

As a Pakistani, I really wish we could have half the talent, half the skill and half the mentality this Indian team has.

Phenomenal stuff.

Well good thought provoking stuff in your post....Small correction-I guess it was Michael Vaughun - eng and not warne who predicted the 4-0 on twitter when we lost at Adelaide.
As you have rightly pointed out skill, attitude and mentality has been displayed in spades over the last two tests.
Having said that I feel as an indian we have improved dramatically in playing on bouncy wickets or bowling there -case in point-ashwin....but have regressed in facing swinging conditions.
The results of 4-1 on Eng tour - 2018 and 2-1 SAF -same year are frankly a bit harsh and a lot closer than the actual scoreline and if we had shown the same grit and determination in some sessions of those tours it would be different.
In summary, the potential is there for an absolute fab Asian team that can challenge all comers in all conditions, but we are not there yet. The NZ loss in 2020 was a big one and might haunt us, come points time for the world test championship.
But then-this series has set the world cricket alight -and no denying that....:salute
 
Reminds me of those stupid nba Goat team arguments

Just enjoy the moment/cricket on offer

Cause you can't compare eras simple as that

You just can't,things change so much (for both good and bad)
That it's nearly Impossible to get a clear picture
 
and that 1 series win came against the C team Aussies.

Kohlis india will get thrashed by Gangulys India and Imrans Pak. I dont like giving opinions as I rather go by stats but I am 100 % sure Kohlis india would lose against Misbahs Pak in UAE too.

Anyways ... India lost 10/11 away series in last 10 years. The 33 test win drama is a result of home wins and against minnows on away tours.

Here is another Gem ... India failed to win Against Bangladesh on away tour too in same span of time.

Small observation on the 'GEM' bit worth considering : -
Similar to Sydney 2018 test against India in which the host followed on and rain ended the test match, the 2015 BD test in BD had a similar conclusion. There are times when the cold result on scoreboard does not accurately reflect the reality.:kp
 
You're trying too hard bete - maybe a new approach is required. I think you can do better. Take a step back, and approach with a clearer mind

You are confused. Over my 9 years on PP, I have seen many posters who are still stuck in the past and will try to argue that somehow, both batting and bowling standards have gone down the drain.

The reality is that if you are downplaying modern batsmen with the usual excuses that they are playing on easier pitches, shorter boundaries, bouncer restrictions, bigger bats etc., then you need to downplay the previous era bowlers because they were not handicapped by these factors.

By the same token, you need to give extra credit to modern bowlers as well.

So if you are calling Smith inferior to Miandad due to so and so reasons, then you also need to apply the same logic to bowlers and conclude that Cummins is better than Imran, but you will not do that because it goes against your beliefs, and this is where nostalgia merchants like get caught up in your own illogical premise.

The reality is that you have great players in every era, and truly great players are not restricted by the era that they play in. Smith, Cummins, Miandad, Imran etc. were all great players.

Smith and Cummins would be great in the 70s and 80s and Imran and Miandad would be great today.

However, I can guarantee you that if Miandad played today, he would not be averaging higher than Smith’s mind-boggling Test average of 62.

In the age of DRS, Miandad would no longer have the luxury of ensuring that he is never given LBW in a home Test. And before you flaunt his centuries against West Indies, don’t forget that Miandad averaged 29 against them and 26 at home in spite of the biased home umpiring, which clearly shows that he was not good enough against the best bowling attack of his time.

Smith is the best Test batsman since Don. He has an almost perfect batting brain for Test cricket and he is averaging 60+ in an era of DRS. That is phenomenal.

Similarly, Imran wouldn’t be averaging lower than Cummins today. He could be similar but definitely not significantly better. I have seen many, many great Test bowlers, and the level that Cummins is bowling at today is as good as I have seen. He is almost a perfect Test bowler.

That Headingley Test means what? Don’t forget it was the genius of Ben Stokes that won England the game, who is another all-timer. Ben Stokes is not a great bowler, but he is a better batsman than Imran and Kapil and probably on par with Botham.

Imran lost a Test match to Sri Lanka in 1985, the worst team of the era that only won 2 Tests in the entire decade. The 1985 team of Sri Lanka will get devoured by Kohli’s India, especially in Asian conditions.

Learn to respect greatness and get off your nostalgia. This is a great era for cricket with many brilliant batsmen and bowlers.

Kohli is one of the greatest batsmen of all time.

Smith is one of the greatest batsmen of all time.

Williamson is the greatest batsman New Zealand has ever produced.

Root, in spite of his slump, is a finer batsman than 99% of the batsmen England have produced since WWII.

Ben Stokes is an all-time great player and as a batsman, he is better than Imran, Kapil, Hadlee and probably on par with Botham.

Quinton de Kock is the best WK batsman South Africa have ever had.

Boult is probably New Zealand’s greatest bowler since Hadlee.

Anderson is one of England’s best bowlers ever.

Lyon is the finest off-spinner Australia have ever had.

Cummins is one of the best Test fast bowlers to come out of Australia.

Ashwin is on track to be Indian’s greatest spinner ahead of Bedi and Kumble.

Bumrah could be India’s best fast bowler ever.

Similarly, the 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s were great as well. 2020s, 30s, 40s will be great today.

Great cricketers will continue to come and go but unfortunately some people will still be stuck in the past.
 
Greatest Asian Team? Not much of an award when you are only 1 of the 3 teams. Srilanka has never been #1 (even with the retroactive model). I meant no offence to Afghanistan and Bangladesh one just started and other has still to become a force in Test cricket.

The result is what 1-1 that is not even a win. But yes the Indian test team is good and have done well to be in this spot. Pakistan twice did 1-1 against Australia in the 70s. India win a series in Australia but that was against a weakened side.

India gets to play so many tests so no doubt they will have more wins. And they will improve because they have been to Australia for far more tests. Pakistan gets half the tests (that too mostly against weaker sides ) and then they couldn't even play at home. UAE was not home. Playing in UAE produced bowlers who are Only Good in UAE like Yasir Shah etc.

And also why celebrate something that has not been decided yet?
The decisive test is yet to be played.
I agree India is much superior side now to Pakistan. But it is not a level playing field. it will years for Pakistan to Develop. International cricket is just only starting to return

The UAE excuse doesn’t hold up. The reality is that Pakistan’s Test results actually improved after moving to UAE.

Pakistan had a poor home record in Pakistan from mid 90s onwards. They only become solid at home after moving to UAE where the pitches didn’t provide any assistance to Australian, South African, English pacers and we were able to beat them with spin.

Pakistani pitches offer more assistance to pacers and that is why these sides did better there. Had Pakistan stayed at home, they would not have become the number 1 team in 2016.

Playing in UAE is not the reason why our fast bowling declined. These bowlers are still learning their trade on Pakistani pitches. They don’t play domestic FC cricket in UAE.

Pakistan’s fast bowling culture is largely hampered by the fact that it is no longer possible to scratch balls with bottle-caps and get exaggerated reverse-swing.

You give the likes of Shaheen and Naseem the same custom made balls are bowlers bowled with in the 80s and 90s and they would also skittle teams for 150 all out from 120/2 with searing yorkers.

Pakistan will not improve as a team now that international cricket is back in Pakistan. It will continue to be ranked 6/7 because that is our capability at the moment.
 
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