The greatest Asian Test team of all time

[Ab Fan]

A team with two consecutive test series wins in Australia is certainly the greatest Asian test team of all-time in my opinion.

Wins in no other country is as precious as winning in Australia followed by India. England generally have knack of losing few games at home every now and then, so I wouldn't count the wins in England at same level.

 

[szrana007]

A team with two consecutive test series wins in Australia is certainly the greatest Asian test team of all-time in my opinion.

Wins in no other country is as precious as winning in Australia followed by India. England generally have knack of losing few games at home every now and then, so I wouldn't count the wins in England at same level.

Agreed, Australia is the toughest place to win in closely followed by India and their historical home series records show that. Pakistan, England and South Africa come after them.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=138806]MesonK[/MENTION]

The GOAT period started from 2015 onwards when Kohli took over as Test captain. It has nothing to do with the 2010-15 period, where Dhoni was captain, the mindset of the team was different and so were the personnel in most cases.

It is not about the decade cut-off, it is about the Kohli era.

Winning in Australia is not easy for Asian teams, or even for non-Asian teams. In recent years, only South Africa has a good record there.

England got hammered in 2016-17 Ashes, New Zealand got smashed in 2019 and we all know how Pakistan play in Australia.

This Indian team is the only one that has won not once but twice in Australia, and they did it both times against an attack of Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood and Lyon, which is among the finest attacks Australia has ever put up and a much better attack than the one that got hammered by England in Australia in 2010-11.

In addition, the phenomenal home record where they have only lost twice in 6 years makes this Indian team the greatest Asian Test team of all time.

Misbah’s Pakistan does not merit any comparison with Kohli’s India. Talking about SENA stats is pointless when you cannot even win in Zimbabwe.

Getting whitewashed in all SENA countries multiple times is still better than losing a Test and drawing a series in Zimbabwe in 2013.

Pakistan’s win in New Zealand in 2011 and the two drawn series in England in 2016 and 2018 are negated by the fact that they couldn’t even beat Zimbabwe in 2013.

Misbah’s Pakistan is not even fit to stand on the same podium as Kohli’s India. If you want to live in denial, it is your choice.

 

[Slog]

A team with two consecutive test series wins in Australia is certainly the greatest Asian test team of all-time in my opinion.

Wins in no other country is as precious as winning in Australia followed by India. England generally have knack of losing few games at home every now and then, so I wouldn't count the wins in England at same level.

Those are great achievements but you need to be consistent overall. Same team got whitewashed in New Zealand, humiliated in England and lost in South Africa in their last tours. Cricket doesn’t begin and end with Australia.

Kohli’s team is the best Asian home team imo. It’s not that they win but they totally dominate and do regular clean sweeps which prior great teams didn’t at this rate. However as a travelling team Kohli’s team isn’t even the best Indian team in past 20 years. India’s 2007-2011 team were very competitive in Australia, won in New Zealand, won in England and drew in South Africa.

So to say this the GOAT Asian team isn’t borne by facts. Cricket is played outside of India and Australia even if many current fanbois would wish so. It is imo the best ever team in Asian conditions though last loss notwithstanding.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Such a GOAT indian team that every time they lose a match or series they start making excuses like "if we won the toss" we would have won the game or series.

Supposidly the losses in SA and England were just on the tosd otherwise india would have won 3-0 in SA and 5-0 in england last time.

 

[Mesozoic]

Such a GOAT indian team that every time they lose a match or series they start making excuses like "if we won the toss" we would have won the game or series.

Supposidly the losses in SA and England were just on the tosd otherwise india would have won 3-0 in SA and 5-0 in england last time.

Losing 9/10 tosses is not an "excuse" especially when you're playing away from home and the gap between you and your opponent is quite marginal. We won the toss at Wanderers and won the game. Root made us "win" the toss at Trent Bridge and we won.

Maybe as a Pak fan, you're used to seeing your test team lose away from home pretty much everytime irrespective of the toss so I guess I won't blame you for thinking that it doesn't matter.....

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

There is nothing to see. Your argument would have had perhaps an ounce of seriousness if India wouldn’t have won the last two editions of the Asia Cup comfortably.

...and India would have deserved the accolade at the time because they were competing.

Pakistan also boycotted the 1990–91 edition of the Asia Cup. Going by your logic, Pakistan's status as an Asian superpower (in cricket) at that time should also be dismissed. If you agree, fair enough otherwise it's just a clear case of double standards.

I do agree, Pakistan would also have forfeited the accolade of greatest team, but the thread is about current ATG Asian team so not sure why you are talking about 30 years ago.

 

[Chrish]

There have been only two ATG teams in Cricket history; Lloyd's WI and Waugh/ Ponting's OZ. Bradman's invincibles might have been but their dominance was short-lived. Same for 70s SA team. You have to dominate world cricket for at least a decade IMO to be called ATG team. Second in line is team like SA 2010s. They were excellent team who didn't loose away series for many many years.

As things stand right now, none of Asian teams are close to being excellent let alone ATG.

 

[Buffet]

Aggressive in looks or tactics.

The MIndset to win.

It reflects on the Indian team. It is Old Aus mentality where you play for the win even if you lose some matches. Some captains have happily played for a draw even if winning a match was possible.

 

[Mamoon]

There have been only two ATG teams in Cricket history; Lloyd's WI and Waugh/ Ponting's OZ. Bradman's invincibles might have been but their dominance was short-lived. Same for 70s SA team. You have to dominate world cricket for at least a decade IMO to be called ATG team. Second in line is team like SA 2010s. They were excellent team who didn't loose away series for many many years.

As things stand right now, none of Asian teams are close to being excellent let alone ATG.

SA of 2010s was a great team but they were vulnerable at home which is why they didn’t really have an aura of an invincible team.

You can lose away from home but great Test teams rarely surrender at home. In their home conditions, their batsmen and bowlers always come out on top over the course of a series.

In the 2000s, Australia lost two high profile away series in India and England but it was their home dominance that made everyone fear touring Australia.

South Africa in the early 2010s wasn’t a scary place to tour.

 

[Chrish]

SA of 2010s was a great team but they were vulnerable at home which is why they didn’t really have an aura of an invincible team.

You can lose away from home but great Test teams rarely surrender at home. In their home conditions, their batsmen and bowlers always come out on top over the course of a series.

In the 2000s, Australia lost two high profile away series in India and England but it was their home dominance that made everyone fear touring Australia.

South Africa in the early 2010s wasn’t a scary place to tour.

That's why I said they were an excellent team, and not ATG. Had SA not lost those home series, they would have been ATG.

 

[MesonK]

Aggressive in looks or tactics.

Looks.

Kohli is far less aggressive in field setting than Ganguly was.

 

[Chrish]

problem with Kohli is his tendency to go for win regardless of the game situation. It sounds well and good but is not practical. I mean take this game for example. It's impossible to try and chase 400 runs on a day 5 wicket in SC. India should have tried to block everything and fight for a draw. They got players like Pujara, Sundar, Ashwin who are capable of doing it. But under Kohli's leadership, they have no choice but to "show intent". I firmly believe Pujara is often forced to alter his natural game when playing under Kohli.

And this is the reason why they won in Australia; Kohli wasn't around and Pujara kept blocking to his heart's content. He was able to completely blunt the attack and rest of the team capitalized on it. I am beginning to think Kohli not being a captain may not be a bad thing for team in a long-run.

 

[Mamoon]

problem with Kohli is his tendency to go for win regardless of the game situation. It sounds well and good but is not practical. I mean take this game for example. It's impossible to try and chase 400 runs on a day 5 wicket in SC. India should have tried to block everything and fight for a draw. They got players like Pujara, Sundar, Ashwin who are capable of doing it. But under Kohli's leadership, they have no choice but to "show intent". I firmly believe Pujara is often forced to alter his natural game when playing under Kohli.

And this is the reason why they won in Australia; Kohli wasn't around and Pujara kept blocking to his heart's content. He was able to completely blunt the attack and rest of the team capitalized on it. I am beginning to think Kohli not being a captain may not be a bad thing for team in a long-run.

Pujara did the same under Kohli’s captaincy in the 2018 series win as well, and Pujara was more successful then and ended up scoring 3 centuries.

 

[Chrish]

Pujara did the same under Kohli’s captaincy in the 2018 series win as well, and Pujara was more successful then and ended up scoring 3 centuries.

Yes but his natural game is being a wall; not being a dasher.

 

[Mamoon]

Yes but his natural game is being a wall; not being a dasher.

You stated that Pujara was able to blunt the attack because Kohli was not around and that is why India won.

However, India won under Kohli in 2018 and Pujara did an even better job of blunting the Australian attack. He blunted his way to 3 centuries.

 

[Chrish]

You stated that Pujara was able to blunt the attack because Kohli was not around and that is why India won.

However, India won under Kohli in 2018 and Pujara did an even better job of blunting the Australian attack. He blunted his way to 3 centuries.

Yes, but that doesn't mean it will work every time. I have seen his career long-enough to know he is not an attacking player and he shouldn't have to alter his style to accommodate captain's intent tactics. Best thing India can do is leave Pujara alone and let him play however he wants; like what Rahane did.

 

[Mamoon]

Yes, but that doesn't mean it will work every time. I have seen his career long-enough to know he is not an attacking player and he shouldn't have to alter his style to accommodate captain's intent tactics. Best thing India can do is leave Pujara alone and let him play however he wants; like what Rahane did.

That is exactly what he has done under Kohli. He hasn’t altered his playing style.

Kohli was not always appreciative of his style. He dropped him for Rohit in Sri Lanka in 2015, only for Rohit to fail and Pujara to come back in the third Test and score a hundred on a seaming wicket.

Since then, Kohli has not tinkered with his playing style.

 

[subshakerz]

I still maintain that India under Dravid and Dhoni from 2006 - 2010 were superior to Kohli's team. That team won in England and NZ, drew in South Africa and were highly competitive against a stronger Australian side in 2007/8. Unbeaten at home as well. The bowling was perhaps not as deadly as the current lineup but the batting core of Sehwag, Tendulkar, Laxman, and Dravid was very strong.

I also think that in subcontinent conditions, Pakistan under Imran Khan in the 80s would seriously challenge Kohli's side (they drew home and away against a stronger WI side). They do not look as strong on paper but were more than the sum of their parts.

The mid-90s Pakistan team would likely lose at home against Kohli's team but beat them away. On paper they were a stronger team.

Kohli's team's has a weak batting lineup in swinging conditions which is why they lost in SA, England and NZ.

 

[Ab Fan]

Current Indian team has two ATGs, Kohli and Ashwin. Pujara and Jadeja are country greats.

 

[Chrish]

Jadeja is the MVP for Indian team; arguably the best current all-rounder along with Stokes.

 

[MesonK]

You keep saying India have lost 10/11 SENA series, when infact they have lost 9/11 SENA series.

From 2011-2020 the record is Indian win record is 1/10

1) Pataudi Trophy (India in England) 2011 England 4-0 (4)
2) Border-Gavaskar Trophy (India in Australia) 2011/12 Australia 4-0 (4)
3) India in South Africa Test Series 2013/14 South Africa 1-0 (2)
4) India in New Zealand Test Series 2013/14 New Zealand 1-0 (2)
5) Pataudi Trophy (India in England) 2014 England 3-1 (5)
6) Border-Gavaskar Trophy (India in Australia) 2014/15 Australia 2-0 (4)
7) Freedom Trophy (India in South Africa) 2017/18 South Africa 2-1 (3)
8) Pataudi Trophy (India in England) 2018 England 4-1 (5)
9) Border-Gavaskar Trophy (India in Australia) 2018/19 India 2-1 (4)
10) India in New Zealand Test Series 2019/20 New Zealand 2-0 (2)

Some Massive improvement ... from 1/11 India is now 1/10 from 2011-2020.

Here is the funny thing. BCCI is the richest Board of all the cricketing nations by far and with all those massive PR campaigns, celebrity status of players, one would expect something like 5-6/10 SENA series wins from GOAT team but we are standing at what 1/10 or 1/11 in a whole decade of 10s. Thats not the definition of a GOAT team by any means.

 

[MesonK]

[MENTION=138806]MesonK[/MENTION]

The GOAT period started from 2015 onwards when Kohli took over as Test captain. It has nothing to do with the 2010-15 period, where Dhoni was captain, the mindset of the team was different and so were the personnel in most cases.

It is not about the decade cut-off, it is about the Kohli era.

GOAT Kohli-India has lost only won 5/23 SENA test matches. Their away % win is merely 21 % ... This 33 test wins drama stands at 57 % win rate ... is nothing out of ordinary as Misbahs depleted Pak also won at 47 % with better SENA win rate at 27 %. If Kohli is GOAT then so is Misbah

[MENTION=138806]

Winning in Australia is not easy for Asian teams, or even for non-Asian teams. In recent years, only South Africa has a good record there.

England got hammered in 2016-17 Ashes, New Zealand got smashed in 2019 and we all know how Pakistan play in Australia.

This Indian team is the only one that has won not once but twice in Australia, and they did it both times against an attack of Cummins, Starc, Hazlewood and Lyon, which is among the finest attacks Australia has ever put up and a much better attack than the one that got hammered by England in Australia in 2010-11.

Australia has lost to SAF in home in fact they have been hammered 4 times at home in last 12 years and got a drawn series by visiting side as well. You may hide behind India win in Australia against a depleted side in 2019 but that is not the only way a team can become GOAT. Its like saying Misbahs Pak stood at Ist rank and drew against ENG in ENG using likes of Sohail Khan so Misbah is some GOAT captain (Misbahs record is similiar to Kohli). Australian fortress has been breached multiple times in last 10-12 years. If India is winning in Australia then it by no means implies that other teams have not done that in recent times.

Also the Indian victory over full strength Austrailia came under Rahane not Kohli. Kohlis team got out at 36 against same Austrailia. GOAT captain right ...

[MENTION=138806]MesonK[/MENTION]

In addition, the phenomenal home record where they have only lost twice in 6 years makes this Indian team the greatest Asian Test team of all time.

If you think someone becomes GOAT captain by winning at home on doctored pitches in front of home crowds then Misbah also won 23 tests in UAE (UAE is not Pakistan) against Kohli's 28 wins (Misbah played less tests as captain) lol

[MENTION=138806]

Misbah’s Pakistan does not merit any comparison with Kohli’s India. Talking about SENA stats is pointless when you cannot even win in Zimbabwe.

Misbahs record is almost on par with Kohli.

Misbah

26/56 @ 47 % win rate, 27% win rate in SENA

Kohli

33/59 @ 56 % win rate @ 21% win rate in SENA

one bad match among 57 tests does not mean anything. Its like Kohli's disaster of 36 all out disaster should outweigh his entire career. Overall stats count, fan opinions do not matter. Misbahs Stats as a captain are almost similar to Kohlis and your opinions cant change that.

[MENTION=138806]

Getting whitewashed in all SENA countries multiple times is still better than losing a Test and drawing a series in Zimbabwe in 2013.

That is your fan opinion and nothing else. Getting whitewashed in SENA for a decade means your worshipped "GOAT" team is not GOAT but a massive losing sidein tough away conditions. India had a terrible decade away from home on not doctored home pitches in front of home crowds. Its like whenever going got tough for India in 10s, they failed yet you have the audacity to call them GOAT because of fan opinions.

Overall stats count, one upset or bad day here or there is common in cricket with almost every captain, Clive Lloyd's loss to Minnow NZ, IK Loss to SL, Kohlis 36 all out joke do not count because they are one or two bad days of cricket in decade long careers of these team leaders. Their overall stats reveal the actual truth.

Its a FACT Misbahs Test record is similar or almost on par to Kohlis as test captain. Only difference is that Misbah was captaining a bad team made by a bad cricketing board that too in another country and calling it home. But I would not take your route of using shoulda/woulda/coulda fan logics, Misbahs overall record is his and its there to stay.

[MENTION=138806]
Pakistan’s win in New Zealand in 2011 and the two drawn series in England in 2016 and 2018 are negated by the fact that they couldn’t even beat Zimbabwe in 2013.

That's your fan opinion which means nothing since you are a reasonless fan, but stats wont change from the fact that India stands at 1/10 wins in a decade while Kohli has only slightly ... slightly better record than Misbah overall (57 % win rate vs 46% of Misbah) while having lower win rate than Misbah in SENA (21% vs 27%). You may write 50 more posts containing thousand more opinions but overall stats are here to stay and they just wont change no matter how much you try.

[MENTION=138806]
Misbah’s Pakistan is not even fit to stand on the same podium as Kohli’s India. If you want to live in denial, it is your choice.

The only person here who is delusional enough to live in denial is you with your fan opinions, but the fun part is this that no matter how much you try to spin it in your favor with opinions, Misbahs test record is almost on par with Kohli and you just cant change it. As a matter of fact compared to Kohli he doesn't have a bad individual batting record either.

Misbah

26/56 @ 47 % win rate, 27% win rate in SENA. Individual average of 52.

Kohli

33/59 @ 56 % win rate @ 21% win rate in SENA. Individual average 60.2

... ROFL

 

[topspin]

...and India would have deserved the accolade at the time because they were competing.





I do agree, Pakistan would also have forfeited the accolade of greatest team, but the thread is about current ATG Asian team so not sure why you are talking about 30 years ago.

Fair enough I rate you for being consistent with your views.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Losing 9/10 tosses is not an "excuse" especially when you're playing away from home and the gap between you and your opponent is quite marginal. We won the toss at Wanderers and won the game. Root made us "win" the toss at Trent Bridge and we won.

Maybe as a Pak fan, you're used to seeing your test team lose away from home pretty much everytime irrespective of the toss so I guess I won't blame you for thinking that it doesn't matter.....

1st off pakistans performances are not relevant to my point. So you bring that up is irrelevant.

So india is such a GOAT team but as soon as they lose a toss away from home in games they cant handle the pressure. Wow so much for greatness. Why dont you look back at all those games and ul find india had chances in a lot of those games and in key situations bottled it mentally to take advantage. Yet conviently rather then looking at indias short comings lets just blame the toss of a coin.

If i was given a $1 everytime india used the toss excuse id be a millionare.

 

[Bilal7]

Regardless of what happens in the final Test, Team India has proved why it is an elite cricket team.
/QUOTE]

I agree. Kohli's India is one of the greatest Asian test teams. People can be stans and argue all they like about what this team would have done in the 80s and 90s or what Imran's Pakistan would have done today but the fact of the matter is that we simply can never know.

Kohli has led his team very well and is certainly one of the great captains. I wish we could have seen Misbah's Pakistan compete with Kohli's India in the UAE/Pakistan and India. That would have been a great tussle between two teams that were practically invincible in Asia.

 

[Mamoon]

I agree. Kohli's India is one of the greatest Asian test teams. People can be stans and argue all they like about what this team would have done in the 80s and 90s or what Imran's Pakistan would have done today but the fact of the matter is that we simply can never know.

Kohli has led his team very well and is certainly one of the great captains. I wish we could have seen Misbah's Pakistan compete with Kohli's India in the UAE/Pakistan and India. That would have been a great tussle between two teams that were practically invincible in Asia.

Nice to see you posting again. I hope all is well with you.

 

[Bilal7]

1) Lloyd's West Indies.

2) Ponting's Australia.

3) Smith's South Africa.

These are the three greatest test teams. Teams that not only had some of the greatest players, who would succeed across eras, but that went to every cricketing nation in the world and came away with a positive result.

 

[Bilal7]

Nice to see you posting again. I hope all is well with you.

Alhamdulillah, things are good with me. Glad to see you're on as well!

 

[Amjid Javed]

GOAT Kohli-India has lost only won 5/23 SENA test matches. Their away % win is merely 21 % ... This 33 test wins drama stands at 57 % win rate ... is nothing out of ordinary as Misbahs depleted Pak also won at 47 % with better SENA win rate at 27 %. If Kohli is GOAT then so is Misbah




Australia has lost to SAF in home in fact they have been hammered 4 times at home in last 12 years and got a drawn series by visiting side as well. You may hide behind India win in Australia against a depleted side in 2019 but that is not the only way a team can become GOAT. Its like saying Misbahs Pak stood at Ist rank and drew against ENG in ENG using likes of Sohail Khan so Misbah is some GOAT captain (Misbahs record is similiar to Kohli). Australian fortress has been breached multiple times in last 10-12 years. If India is winning in Australia then it by no means implies that other teams have not done that in recent times.

Also the Indian victory over full strength Austrailia came under Rahane not Kohli. Kohlis team got out at 36 against same Austrailia. GOAT captain right ...



If you think someone becomes GOAT captain by winning at home on doctored pitches in front of home crowds then Misbah also won 23 tests in UAE (UAE is not Pakistan) against Kohli's 28 wins (Misbah played less tests as captain) lol



Misbahs record is almost on par with Kohli.

Misbah

26/56 @ 47 % win rate, 27% win rate in SENA

Kohli

33/59 @ 56 % win rate @ 21% win rate in SENA

one bad match among 57 tests does not mean anything. Its like Kohli's disaster of 36 all out disaster should outweigh his entire career. Overall stats count, fan opinions do not matter. Misbahs Stats as a captain are almost similar to Kohlis and your opinions cant change that.



That is your fan opinion and nothing else. Getting whitewashed in SENA for a decade means your worshipped "GOAT" team is not GOAT but a massive losing sidein tough away conditions. India had a terrible decade away from home on not doctored home pitches in front of home crowds. Its like whenever going got tough for India in 10s, they failed yet you have the audacity to call them GOAT because of fan opinions.

Overall stats count, one upset or bad day here or there is common in cricket with almost every captain, Clive Lloyd's loss to Minnow NZ, IK Loss to SL, Kohlis 36 all out joke do not count because they are one or two bad days of cricket in decade long careers of these team leaders. Their overall stats reveal the actual truth.

Its a FACT Misbahs Test record is similar or almost on par to Kohlis as test captain. Only difference is that Misbah was captaining a bad team made by a bad cricketing board that too in another country and calling it home. But I would not take your route of using shoulda/woulda/coulda fan logics, Misbahs overall record is his and its there to stay.



That's your fan opinion which means nothing since you are a reasonless fan, but stats wont change from the fact that India stands at 1/10 wins in a decade while Kohli has only slightly ... slightly better record than Misbah overall (57 % win rate vs 46% of Misbah) while having lower win rate than Misbah in SENA (21% vs 27%). You may write 50 more posts containing thousand more opinions but overall stats are here to stay and they just wont change no matter how much you try.



The only person here who is delusional enough to live in denial is you with your fan opinions, but the fun part is this that no matter how much you try to spin it in your favor with opinions, Misbahs test record is almost on par with Kohli and you just cant change it. As a matter of fact compared to Kohli he doesn't have a bad individual batting record either.

Misbah

26/56 @ 47 % win rate, 27% win rate in SENA. Individual average of 52.

Kohli

33/59 @ 56 % win rate @ 21% win rate in SENA. Individual average 60.2

... ROFL

Post of the week nomination here. Mamoon just got taught a cricket lesson.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Losing 9/10 tosses is not an "excuse" especially when you're playing away from home and the gap between you and your opponent is quite marginal. We won the toss at Wanderers and won the game. Root made us "win" the toss at Trent Bridge and we won.

Maybe as a Pak fan, you're used to seeing your test team lose away from home pretty much everytime irrespective of the toss so I guess I won't blame you for thinking that it doesn't matter.....

Lets look at one of the examples tests in SA/NZ/Eng

India in 2nd test in NZ last series.

NZ won toss.

India 242 vs NZ 235 so india had 1st inns lead of 7. 2nd inns India got bowled out for 124, NZ chase 132 easily with 3 wkts down.

So please tell me how the toss effected indias inns in 3rd inns of match for them to be bowled out for 124.

Facts in vast majority of indias defeats they usually have been pretty much level there or there abouts and then lost game in 2nd half of test. But lets keep blaming the toss.

I awate your response!

 

[Amjid Javed]

Also all these indian fans raving on about how they are Asias best. So they have won 2 series in Australia well done.

They lost in SA, yet a weak SL team went there and won.

They have been hammered in england in last 2 series. Yet in same period a weak pakistan has managed 2 drawn series.

Doesnt say much really for GOAT india.

 

[Mamoon]

Also all these indian fans raving on about how they are Asias best. So they have won 2 series in Australia well done.

They lost in SA, yet a weak SL team went there and won.

They have been hammered in england in last 2 series. Yet in same period a weak pakistan has managed 2 drawn series.

Doesnt say much really for GOAT india.

Sri Lanka faced a weaker South Africa than the one India faced in 2018. You can compare the lineups of South Africa in both series.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

GOAT Kohli-India has lost only won 5/23 SENA test matches. Their away % win is merely 21 % ... This 33 test wins drama stands at 57 % win rate ... is nothing out of ordinary as Misbahs depleted Pak also won at 47 % with better SENA win rate at 27 %. If Kohli is GOAT then so is Misbah




Australia has lost to SAF in home in fact they have been hammered 4 times at home in last 12 years and got a drawn series by visiting side as well. You may hide behind India win in Australia against a depleted side in 2019 but that is not the only way a team can become GOAT. Its like saying Misbahs Pak stood at Ist rank and drew against ENG in ENG using likes of Sohail Khan so Misbah is some GOAT captain (Misbahs record is similiar to Kohli). Australian fortress has been breached multiple times in last 10-12 years. If India is winning in Australia then it by no means implies that other teams have not done that in recent times.

Also the Indian victory over full strength Austrailia came under Rahane not Kohli. Kohlis team got out at 36 against same Austrailia. GOAT captain right ...



If you think someone becomes GOAT captain by winning at home on doctored pitches in front of home crowds then Misbah also won 23 tests in UAE (UAE is not Pakistan) against Kohli's 28 wins (Misbah played less tests as captain) lol



Misbahs record is almost on par with Kohli.

Misbah

26/56 @ 47 % win rate, 27% win rate in SENA

Kohli

33/59 @ 56 % win rate @ 21% win rate in SENA

one bad match among 57 tests does not mean anything. Its like Kohli's disaster of 36 all out disaster should outweigh his entire career. Overall stats count, fan opinions do not matter. Misbahs Stats as a captain are almost similar to Kohlis and your opinions cant change that.



That is your fan opinion and nothing else. Getting whitewashed in SENA for a decade means your worshipped "GOAT" team is not GOAT but a massive losing sidein tough away conditions. India had a terrible decade away from home on not doctored home pitches in front of home crowds. Its like whenever going got tough for India in 10s, they failed yet you have the audacity to call them GOAT because of fan opinions.

Overall stats count, one upset or bad day here or there is common in cricket with almost every captain, Clive Lloyd's loss to Minnow NZ, IK Loss to SL, Kohlis 36 all out joke do not count because they are one or two bad days of cricket in decade long careers of these team leaders. Their overall stats reveal the actual truth.

Its a FACT Misbahs Test record is similar or almost on par to Kohlis as test captain. Only difference is that Misbah was captaining a bad team made by a bad cricketing board that too in another country and calling it home. But I would not take your route of using shoulda/woulda/coulda fan logics, Misbahs overall record is his and its there to stay.



That's your fan opinion which means nothing since you are a reasonless fan, but stats wont change from the fact that India stands at 1/10 wins in a decade while Kohli has only slightly ... slightly better record than Misbah overall (57 % win rate vs 46% of Misbah) while having lower win rate than Misbah in SENA (21% vs 27%). You may write 50 more posts containing thousand more opinions but overall stats are here to stay and they just wont change no matter how much you try.



The only person here who is delusional enough to live in denial is you with your fan opinions, but the fun part is this that no matter how much you try to spin it in your favor with opinions, Misbahs test record is almost on par with Kohli and you just cant change it. As a matter of fact compared to Kohli he doesn't have a bad individual batting record either.

Misbah

26/56 @ 47 % win rate, 27% win rate in SENA. Individual average of 52.

Kohli

33/59 @ 56 % win rate @ 21% win rate in SENA. Individual average 60.2

... ROFL

Just to add to your excellent, well written and facts filled post:

Misbah as a captain was fun to watch, he had small tactical brilliances which as a spectator I used to enjoy, especially in crunch moments in England.

Kohli the captain is many times clueless and his captaincy leaves much to be desired. I'm sure people who have actually watched whole India games can list number of times India lost a crucial little battle which provided opposition opportunity to win the game.

So all in all, Misbah despite having a weaker team provided better results.

My 2 cents, as a spectator.

 

[Mamoon]

Post of the week nomination here. Mamoon just got taught a cricket lesson.

More like the most deluded post of the week. All I am seeing is a rehash of the same denial over and over again. At this point, it seems like he is more interested in having the last word than a serious discussion.

In summary, he is completely dismissing the difficultly of beating Australia in Australia not once but twice, he refuses to consider the series win in 2021 because he choose an arbitrary cut-off period of 31st Dec 2020 for his convenience and he is brushing Pakistan’s humiliation in Zimbabwe under the carpet.

All of this is a coping mechanism for the fact that our celebrations after Adelaide Test proved to be premature and blew in our faces, because to see India beat Australia in Australia after the Adelaide debacle and that too with its reserve side was something that we did not anticipate in our wildest dreams and it was the stuff of nightmares.

We have been burning like hot coal since.

Make peace with the following:

(a) Any Asian team that wins two series in Australia,

(b) loses only 2 home Tests in 6 years,

(c) spends the longest time at the top of the rankings among all Asian teams ever,

(d) spends the longest time at the top of the rankings among all teams in the 2010 decade is the GOAT Asian Test team.

To be the GOAT Asian Test side, you do not have to be invincible and win every series; you simply have to achieve more than what other great Asian teams of the past have achieved, and in spite of losing in South Africa, England and New Zealand, the current India’s achievements tower above the achievements of other Asian teams in the past.

 

[Mamoon]

Just to add to your excellent, well written and facts filled post:

Misbah as a captain was fun to watch, he had small tactical brilliances which as a spectator I used to enjoy, especially in crunch moments in England.

Kohli the captain is many times clueless and his captaincy leaves much to be desired. I'm sure people who have actually watched whole India games can list number of times India lost a crucial little battle which provided opposition opportunity to win the game.

So all in all, Misbah despite having a weaker team provided better results.

My 2 cents, as a spectator.

Misbah lost a Test and drew a series in Zimbabwe, that alone ends the debate and any comparison with the GOAT Asian captain Kohli.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Sri Lanka faced a weaker South Africa than the one India faced in 2018. You can compare the lineups of South Africa in both series.

Excuses all thr time, toss of a coin. Now its SA were a weaker team. Never give credit to any asian team apart from your beloved india.

If SL win in SA shouldnt ve acknowleded. Why should Indias 1st win in Australia werent they weakened.

We can go through every series in history of cricket and dismiss different series wins due to player XYZ were missing.

Lets see your next copy paste response from your stored folder.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Misbah lost a Test and drew a series in Zimbabwe, that alone ends the debate and any comparison with the GOAT Asian captain Kohli.

So should Great WI captains of GOAT team be dismissed because they lost to NZ away when they were minnows. Every top team has a blemish on there record. Sadly thats beyond your basic cricket comprehension.

 

[Mamoon]

So should Great WI captains of GOAT team be dismissed because they lost to NZ away when they were minnows. Every top team has a blemish on there record. Sadly thats beyond your basic cricket comprehension.

Losing to 2013 Zimbabwe is more than just a blemish. It is an unpardonable result.

West Indies losing in New Zealand and Imran’s Pakistan losing in Sri Lanka in 1985 were nowhere as bad as Pakistan losing to Zimbabwe in 2013.

 

[Mamoon]

Excuses all thr time, toss of a coin. Now its SA were a weaker team. Never give credit to any asian team apart from your beloved india.

If SL win in SA shouldnt ve acknowleded. Why should Indias 1st win in Australia werent they weakened.

We can go through every series in history of cricket and dismiss different series wins due to player XYZ were missing.

Lets see your next copy paste response from your stored folder.

As I said, instead of whining, check the South African squads for both series. I bet you weren’t aware of the difference in personnel.

 

[Amjid Javed]

More like the most deluded post of the week. All I am seeing is a rehash of the same denial over and over again. At this point, it seems like he is more interested in having the last word than a serious discussion.

In summary, he is completely dismissing the difficultly of beating Australia in Australia not once but twice, he refuses to consider the series win in 2021 because he choose an arbitrary cut-off period of 31st Dec 2020 for his convenience and he is brushing Pakistan’s humiliation in Zimbabwe under the carpet.

All of this is a coping mechanism for the fact that our celebrations after Adelaide Test proved to be premature and blew in our faces, because to see India beat Australia in Australia after the Adelaide debacle and that too with its reserve side was something that we did not anticipate in our wildest dreams and it was the stuff of nightmares.

We have been burning like hot coal since.

Make peace with the following:

(a) Any Asian team that wins two series in Australia,

(b) loses only 2 home Tests in 6 years,

(c) spends the longest time at the top of the rankings among all Asian teams ever,

(d) spends the longest time at the top of the rankings among all teams in the 2010 decade is the GOAT Asian Test team.

To be the GOAT Asian Test side, you do not have to be invincible and win every series; you simply have to achieve more than what other great Asian teams of the past have achieved, and in spite of losing in South Africa, England and New Zealand, the current India’s achievements tower above the achievements of other Asian teams in the past.

E) Get smashed in 8 out of 8 series in South africa / NZ and ENG in last decade

Won 3 tests lost 17 and drawn 3.

Feel free to explain this pathetic record since 2011. Lets soley dicuss india here are they are such a GOAT )

 

[Amjid Javed]

As I said, instead of whining, check the South African squads for both series. I bet you weren’t aware of the difference in personnel.

I was fully aware of personel, teams change from series to series. Injuries happen, form changes, players retire.

Like i said before you can dismiss every series win in history of game by your stupid logic of players in team being different. Only person whinning is you with your usual copy and paste drivel. Start watching cricket on tv rather than watching it on the radio like you normally do.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Misbah lost a Test and drew a series in Zimbabwe, that alone ends the debate and any comparison with the GOAT Asian captain Kohli.

So they also whitewashed #1 England side which won in India

You are losing it. I'm seriously worried about you. Not a joke, or disrespect, take care of yourself bro.

 

[Amjid Javed]

So they also whitewashed #1 England side which won in India

You are losing it. I'm seriously worried about you. Not a joke, or disrespect, take care of yourself bro.

Mamoon response:

Copy + paste: Pakistan winning 3-0 was worst a team has ever played in whitewashing another

You will get same excused filled rubbish from him.

 

[szrana007]

So should Great WI captains of GOAT team be dismissed because they lost to NZ away when they were minnows.
Every top team has a blemish on there record. Sadly thats beyond your basic cricket comprehension.

The WI side under Clive Lloyd which lost to NZL 0-1 in NZL in 1980 wasn't a minnow at all. Infact that Kiwi team of the 80's is one of NZL's greatest test sides ever which had bowlers like Richard Hadlee and Lance Cairns and batsmen like John Wright and Martin Crowe.

 

[Technics 1210]

GOAT Kohli-India has lost only won 5/23 SENA test matches. Their away % win is merely 21 % ... This 33 test wins drama stands at 57 % win rate ... is nothing out of ordinary as Misbahs depleted Pak also won at 47 % with better SENA win rate at 27 %. If Kohli is GOAT then so is Misbah




Australia has lost to SAF in home in fact they have been hammered 4 times at home in last 12 years and got a drawn series by visiting side as well. You may hide behind India win in Australia against a depleted side in 2019 but that is not the only way a team can become GOAT. Its like saying Misbahs Pak stood at Ist rank and drew against ENG in ENG using likes of Sohail Khan so Misbah is some GOAT captain (Misbahs record is similiar to Kohli). Australian fortress has been breached multiple times in last 10-12 years. If India is winning in Australia then it by no means implies that other teams have not done that in recent times.

Also the Indian victory over full strength Austrailia came under Rahane not Kohli. Kohlis team got out at 36 against same Austrailia. GOAT captain right ...



If you think someone becomes GOAT captain by winning at home on doctored pitches in front of home crowds then Misbah also won 23 tests in UAE (UAE is not Pakistan) against Kohli's 28 wins (Misbah played less tests as captain) lol



Misbahs record is almost on par with Kohli.

Misbah

26/56 @ 47 % win rate, 27% win rate in SENA

Kohli

33/59 @ 56 % win rate @ 21% win rate in SENA

one bad match among 57 tests does not mean anything. Its like Kohli's disaster of 36 all out disaster should outweigh his entire career. Overall stats count, fan opinions do not matter. Misbahs Stats as a captain are almost similar to Kohlis and your opinions cant change that.



That is your fan opinion and nothing else. Getting whitewashed in SENA for a decade means your worshipped "GOAT" team is not GOAT but a massive losing sidein tough away conditions. India had a terrible decade away from home on not doctored home pitches in front of home crowds. Its like whenever going got tough for India in 10s, they failed yet you have the audacity to call them GOAT because of fan opinions.

Overall stats count, one upset or bad day here or there is common in cricket with almost every captain, Clive Lloyd's loss to Minnow NZ, IK Loss to SL, Kohlis 36 all out joke do not count because they are one or two bad days of cricket in decade long careers of these team leaders. Their overall stats reveal the actual truth.

Its a FACT Misbahs Test record is similar or almost on par to Kohlis as test captain. Only difference is that Misbah was captaining a bad team made by a bad cricketing board that too in another country and calling it home. But I would not take your route of using shoulda/woulda/coulda fan logics, Misbahs overall record is his and its there to stay.



That's your fan opinion which means nothing since you are a reasonless fan, but stats wont change from the fact that India stands at 1/10 wins in a decade while Kohli has only slightly ... slightly better record than Misbah overall (57 % win rate vs 46% of Misbah) while having lower win rate than Misbah in SENA (21% vs 27%). You may write 50 more posts containing thousand more opinions but overall stats are here to stay and they just wont change no matter how much you try.



The only person here who is delusional enough to live in denial is you with your fan opinions, but the fun part is this that no matter how much you try to spin it in your favor with opinions, Misbahs test record is almost on par with Kohli and you just cant change it. As a matter of fact compared to Kohli he doesn't have a bad individual batting record either.

Misbah

26/56 @ 47 % win rate, 27% win rate in SENA. Individual average of 52.

Kohli

33/59 @ 56 % win rate @ 21% win rate in SENA. Individual average 60.2

... ROFL

Mamoon just got schooled.

Great post of the month candidate.

 

[Bewal Express]

Best ever Asian team was IKs team that toured the Windies in 1988. A team that came within an umpires decision to win a series against ATG team.

 

[KP From India]

That would have been the case had this team had a simillar record we had in SEN during 2007-2011.
For me, the order would be
WI 1980s- Another planet.
Aus 2000s- Another planet.
Smiths's SA- miles ahead
Michael Waughn's team-ahead.
1990s Pakistan.
Fleming's NZ-ahead.
Stauss's Eng-ahead.
Ranatunga's Sri Lanka-ahead.
Then comes this Indian side.

 

[KP From India]

That too considering you dont have Murali, Warne, Mcgrath in opposition and every SENA team is hardly left with 1-2 Pontings or Kallises.

 

[NoBallZombie]

This is OP’s personal opinion. Don’t think any serious person can claim this side is the greatest Asian side, this isn’t even thr greatest Indian side. There are so many chinks in that armour. For starters, the openers are not stable , the middle order is shaky, the keeper would give kamy a run for his money, and without shami... the bowling attack lacks the bite. Yes they have some fantastic individuals: kohli, pujara, Bumrah, ashwin and even rohit to some extent in tests.... but no way is this team the greatest. I would take a batting order of tendu, ganguly Dravid and vvs over this one any day of the week and twice on Sunday! Even the bowling of kumble, bhajji and zaheer would be on par, if not better than this one.

Everyone knows OPs tendencies to exaggerate anything Indian and downplay anything Pakistan and hence this opinion of his which is totally devoid of facts ... must not be taken seriously

 

[KP From India]

If we are not achieving results in SEN tours, either of these two must be a problem.
1) Clueless captaincy.
2) The team is not as balanced as people think.
Dunno a single reason or combination of both.

 

[Mamoon]

So they also whitewashed #1 England side which won in India

You are losing it. I'm seriously worried about you. Not a joke, or disrespect, take care of yourself bro.

Whitewashing England with a chucker does not make up for losing a Test and drawing a series in Zimbabwe.

I am glad that you are worried about me, but I am worried about the people who are actually arguing that Misbah’s Pakistan was superior to Kohli’s India, when Misbah’s Pakistan couldn’t even win in Zimbabwe.

 

[Mamoon]

E) Get smashed in 8 out of 8 series in South africa / NZ and ENG in last decade

Won 3 tests lost 17 and drawn 3.

Feel free to explain this pathetic record since 2011. Lets soley dicuss india here are they are such a GOAT )

Once again, it is all relative. To be the GOAT, you don’t have to be invincible; you only have to be better than the rest.

In spite of losing in South Africa, England and New Zealand, the achievements of this Indian puts them above other Asian teams of the past, because their achievements are greater than the achievements of the previous Asian teams.

Longest reign as number 1 team in a decade, longest reign as number 1 team for any Asian side in history, two series wins in Australia, not a single home series lost in the last 6 years.

There is no doubt about the fact that the post 2015 Indian team is the GOAT Asian Test side.

 

[Slog]

Once again, it is all relative. To be the GOAT, you don’t have to be invincible; you only have to be better than the rest.

In spite of losing in South Africa, England and New Zealand, the achievements of this Indian puts them above other Asian teams of the past, because their achievements are greater than the achievements of the previous Asian teams.

Longest reign as number 1 team in a decade, longest reign as number 1 team for any Asian side in history, two series wins in Australia, not a single home series lost in the last 6 years.

There is no doubt about the fact that the post 2015 Indian team is the GOAT Asian Test side.

This post 2015 Indian side got whitewashed in New Zealand, humiliated in England and lost in South Africa. The 2007-2011 Indian side won in England, won in New Zealand and drew against a much superior South African side away. First this side needs to become the GOAT India side. This side is ruthless at home but the 2007-2011 side was very successful at home too. So from a ‘relative’ perspective; 2007-2011 India side was better.

 

[Mamoon]

This is OP’s personal opinion. Don’t think any serious person can claim this side is the greatest Asian side, this isn’t even thr greatest Indian side. There are so many chinks in that armour. For starters, the openers are not stable , the middle order is shaky, the keeper would give kamy a run for his money, and without shami... the bowling attack lacks the bite. Yes they have some fantastic individuals: kohli, pujara, Bumrah, ashwin and even rohit to some extent in tests.... but no way is this team the greatest. I would take a batting order of tendu, ganguly Dravid and vvs over this one any day of the week and twice on Sunday! Even the bowling of kumble, bhajji and zaheer would be on par, if not better than this one.

Everyone knows OPs tendencies to exaggerate anything Indian and downplay anything Pakistan and hence this opinion of his which is totally devoid of facts ... must not be taken seriously

The following achievements make this Indian team the GOAT Asian Test team:

(a) two Test series wins in Australia, and both against a bowling attack of Cummins-Starc-Hazlewood-Lyon which is among the best Australia have fielded in the last 20-30 years after the McGrath-Warne generation, and in fact, the likes of Cummins and Hazlewood would get into that Australian attack because they are better than support bowlers like Gillespie and Lee.

(b) longest reign as the number 1 team in the 2010 decade.

(c) longest reign as the number 1 team for any Asian side in history.

(d) no home series lost in 6 years. Not only are they almost impossible to beat in a series, they rarely lose matches as well. This England loss was only their second home defeat in the Kohli era.

All these achievements makes them the GOAT Asian Test team, because the achievements of other Asian sides fall short in comparison.

This Indian bowling attack likes bite? They are biting hard than all other attacks. Their record in almost every country over the last 3-4 years is amazing. They keep taking wickets in all conditions.

After Muralitharan, Ashwin and Jadeja are as good as any Test spinner ever produced by Asia, and they would be world class even if they were number 11s. The fact that they are good batsmen makes them elite among the elites.

Bumrah is better than Zaheer who was more comparable to Shami. Ishant is also a far better Test bowler than the likes of Agarkar, Pathan, Balaji, RP Singh etc.

Ashwin and Jadeja is a better combo than Kumble and Harbhajan.

Pant’s keeping is not great yet, but he is as gifted with the bat as Gilchrist. He is well on his way of overtaking Dhoni as the greatest Asian Test WK batsman of all time.

Rizwan is a brilliant keeper and I think he is the best WK batsman Pakistan has ever had although the bar is embarrassingly low. However, Pant’s batting ability is something else. He is Gilchrist 2.0.

It is understandable to rate the 2000s Indian batting lineup higher, but this lineup is no slouch either.

Kohli is very much comparable to Tendulkar and better than Dravid, Laxman and Ganguly.

Pujara is almost as good as Dravid and Laxman and better than Ganguly.

Rahane is comparable to Ganguly but inferior to the rest of the Indian middle-order batsmen of the 2000s.

Sehwag was obviously a major factor that this team lacks, although the future looks very bright with the emergence of Gill.

I also think India missed a trick by not trusting Rohit as an opener earlier. Sure he will have his lean patches, but he has the ability to produce the same level of destruction on Asian pitches that Sehwag did.

Rohit is the type of player who can easily score a double-hundred in one day, and we saw glimpses of the damage he can do against South Africa last year.

He should have been trusted as an opener in Asian conditions over the last 4-5 years, instead of forcefully trying to accommodate him in the middle-order. It didn’t work in ODIs and didn’t work in Tests.

Overall, among all Asian Test teams of the past, the 2000s India would give them the toughest fight in most conditions, which is why I would put that Indian team as the second greatest Asian Test side, with Imran’s Pakistan at number 3.

 

[Mamoon]

This post 2015 Indian side got whitewashed in New Zealand, humiliated in England and lost in South Africa. The 2007-2011 Indian side won in England, won in New Zealand and drew against a much superior South African side away. First this side needs to become the GOAT India side. This side is ruthless at home but the 2007-2011 side was very successful at home too. So from a ‘relative’ perspective; 2007-2011 India side was better.

That Indian team couldn’t win in Australia in 2008 when Australia had a vastly inferior bowling attack compared to what they have now, and although they still had Ponting, Hayden and Gilchrist in the lineup, they were no longer at their peak.

Hayden and Gilchrist were done by then and Ponting’s decline started in 2008-2009.

I don’t think the 2007-2011 would be able to win in Australia not once but twice against an attack of Cummins-Hazlewood-Starc-Lyon, and stop Smith, Warner and Labuschagne pile up big runs with RP Singh opening the bowling.

Ishant Sharma created a lot of hype when he made Ponting jump around, but it was no longer the prime Ponting.

I think Kohli’s India beats the 2007-2011 India in most conditions.

 

[szrana007]

That Indian team couldn’t win in Australia in 2008 when Australia had a vastly inferior bowling attack compared to what they have now, and although they still had Ponting, Hayden and Gilchrist in the lineup, they were no longer at their peak.

Hayden and Gilchrist were done by then and Ponting’s decline started in 2008-2009.

I don’t think the 2007-2011 would be able to win in Australia not once but twice against an attack of Cummins-Hazlewood-Starc-Lyon, and stop Smith, Warner and Labuschagne pile up big runs with RP Singh opening the bowling.

Ishant Sharma created a lot of hype when he made Ponting jump around, but it was no longer the prime Ponting.

I think Kohli’s India beats the 2007-2011 India in most conditions.

Not to mention that 2006-2010 Indian team also lost 1-2 in Sri Lanka in 2008, while Pak won in SL in 2006. That Indian team couldn't even win in SL in 2010 too, when Murali retired. That side is overrated by many on this forum.

 

[Ab Fan]

Not to mention that 2006-2010 Indian team also lost 1-2 in Sri Lanka in 2008, while Pak won in SL in 2006. That Indian team couldn't even win in SL in 2010 too, when Murali retired. That side is overrated by many on this forum.

You should make your points more clearer for everyone to understand.
Murali played in the game that SL won in 2010. When Murali retired, India won the third game and drew second one.

In 2008, they lost in SL because of Murali and Mendis duo. Their batting had some home legends like Mahela, Sanga, Samareweera, peak Dilshan etc in both the series. Also, that Indian team still beat such a strong team at home.

 

[Ab Fan]

What people are forgetting is that it is always hard to beat a strong home team in alien conditions.

The current NZ side are probably their greatest home test side.

England are pretty strong side at home.

The current South African side is the only side that the current Indian side should have won to prove their worth as all- condition team. If they would have won that series, the current Indian team would have only losses in England and New Zealand.

Remember, even the great Australian side also lost two home series to India in 1996 and 2001 and lost a test series in Sri Lanka in 1999. So, in alien conditions against strong teams, it is always hard to win a series.

 

[szrana007]

What people are forgetting is that it is always hard to beat a strong home team in alien conditions.

The current NZ side are probably their greatest home test side.

England are pretty strong side at home.

The current South African side is the only side that the current Indian side should have won to prove their worth as all- condition team. If they would have won that series, the current Indian team would have only losses in England and New Zealand.

Remember, even the great Australian side also lost two home series to India in 1996 and 2001 and lost a test series in Sri Lanka in 1999. So, in alien conditions against strong teams, it is always hard to win a series.

Yeah that was my point that India couldn't beat SL, when Murali didn't play 2 out of 3 tests in 2010. In comparison Pak in 2000's won in SL twice when Murali was playing ( 2000 and 2006), while India of 2000's lost in SL twice (2001 and 2008), and only managed to draw in 2010.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Whitewashing England with a chucker does not make up for losing a Test and drawing a series in Zimbabwe.

I am glad that you are worried about me, but I am worried about the people who are actually arguing that Misbah’s Pakistan was superior to Kohli’s India, when Misbah’s Pakistan couldn’t even win in Zimbabwe.

India had two chuckers against England. Only difference is Ajmal was tested and cleared and Ojha/Ashwin shamelessly chucked. Ashwin might still be chucking in some deliveries.

PS: some people also raised voices on Bumrah's action.

 

[Ab Fan]

Yeah that was my point that India couldn't beat SL, when Murali didn't play 2 out of 3 tests in 2010. In comparison Pak in 2000's won in SL twice when Murali was playing ( 2000 and 2006), while India of 2000's lost in SL twice (2001 and 2008), and only managed to draw in 2010.

In 2010, Murali played the first test and
their batting was at its all-time peak hence SL won that test but after that India made a comeback and drew the series.

In 2008, they had the duo of Murali-Mendis and Mendis was new and that he got a beginner luck with an action hard to pick which is why India lost that series.

In 2009 at home against the same side, we did beat them 2-0 and sealed the series.

In 2006, Pakistan won the series because that SL side didn't had a batting as great as it was around 2008-10 and there was no Mendis.

In 2004 and 2009, Pakistan couldn't win a test series against Sri Lanka at even home.

 

[szrana007]

In 2010, Murali played the first test and
their batting was at its all-time peak hence SL won that test but after that India made a comeback and drew the series.

In 2008, they had the duo of Murali-Mendis and Mendis was new and that he got a beginner luck with an action hard to pick which is why India lost that series.

In 2009 at home against the same side, we did beat them 2-0 and sealed the series.

In 2006, Pakistan won the series because that SL side didn't had a batting as great as it was around 2008-10 and there was no Mendis.

In 2004 and 2009, Pakistan couldn't win a test series against Sri Lanka at even home.

Leaving aside Pak's home record against SL, Pak beat strong SL sides away in 2000 and 2006. That 2006 SL team was quite strong which beat SA 2-0 at home, drew 1-1 in England and also drew 1-1 in New Zealand later in the same year. India never beat such strong SL sides in Sri Lanka, as Pak did in 2006 and 2000.

 

[subshakerz]

That Indian team couldn’t win in Australia in 2008 when Australia had a vastly inferior bowling attack compared to what they have now, and although they still had Ponting, Hayden and Gilchrist in the lineup, they were no longer at their peak.

Hayden and Gilchrist were done by then and Ponting’s decline started in 2008-2009.

I don’t think the 2007-2011 would be able to win in Australia not once but twice against an attack of Cummins-Hazlewood-Starc-Lyon, and stop Smith, Warner and Labuschagne pile up big runs with RP Singh opening the bowling.

Ishant Sharma created a lot of hype when he made Ponting jump around, but it was no longer the prime Ponting.

I think Kohli’s India beats the 2007-2011 India in most conditions.

That Aussie attack was Johnson, Stuart Clarke and Brett Lee who was in the best form of his life. It was comparable.

 

[observer1]

GOAT Kohli-India has lost only won 5/23 SENA test matches. Their away % win is merely 21 % ... This 33 test wins drama stands at 57 % win rate ... is nothing out of ordinary as Misbahs depleted Pak also won at 47 % with better SENA win rate at 27 %. If Kohli is GOAT then so is Misbah




Australia has lost to SAF in home in fact they have been hammered 4 times at home in last 12 years and got a drawn series by visiting side as well. You may hide behind India win in Australia against a depleted side in 2019 but that is not the only way a team can become GOAT. Its like saying Misbahs Pak stood at Ist rank and drew against ENG in ENG using likes of Sohail Khan so Misbah is some GOAT captain (Misbahs record is similiar to Kohli). Australian fortress has been breached multiple times in last 10-12 years. If India is winning in Australia then it by no means implies that other teams have not done that in recent times.

Also the Indian victory over full strength Austrailia came under Rahane not Kohli. Kohlis team got out at 36 against same Austrailia. GOAT captain right ...



If you think someone becomes GOAT captain by winning at home on doctored pitches in front of home crowds then Misbah also won 23 tests in UAE (UAE is not Pakistan) against Kohli's 28 wins (Misbah played less tests as captain) lol



Misbahs record is almost on par with Kohli.

Misbah

26/56 @ 47 % win rate, 27% win rate in SENA

Kohli

33/59 @ 56 % win rate @ 21% win rate in SENA

one bad match among 57 tests does not mean anything. Its like Kohli's disaster of 36 all out disaster should outweigh his entire career. Overall stats count, fan opinions do not matter. Misbahs Stats as a captain are almost similar to Kohlis and your opinions cant change that.



That is your fan opinion and nothing else. Getting whitewashed in SENA for a decade means your worshipped "GOAT" team is not GOAT but a massive losing sidein tough away conditions. India had a terrible decade away from home on not doctored home pitches in front of home crowds. Its like whenever going got tough for India in 10s, they failed yet you have the audacity to call them GOAT because of fan opinions.

Overall stats count, one upset or bad day here or there is common in cricket with almost every captain, Clive Lloyd's loss to Minnow NZ, IK Loss to SL, Kohlis 36 all out joke do not count because they are one or two bad days of cricket in decade long careers of these team leaders. Their overall stats reveal the actual truth.

Its a FACT Misbahs Test record is similar or almost on par to Kohlis as test captain. Only difference is that Misbah was captaining a bad team made by a bad cricketing board that too in another country and calling it home. But I would not take your route of using shoulda/woulda/coulda fan logics, Misbahs overall record is his and its there to stay.



That's your fan opinion which means nothing since you are a reasonless fan, but stats wont change from the fact that India stands at 1/10 wins in a decade while Kohli has only slightly ... slightly better record than Misbah overall (57 % win rate vs 46% of Misbah) while having lower win rate than Misbah in SENA (21% vs 27%). You may write 50 more posts containing thousand more opinions but overall stats are here to stay and they just wont change no matter how much you try.



The only person here who is delusional enough to live in denial is you with your fan opinions, but the fun part is this that no matter how much you try to spin it in your favor with opinions, Misbahs test record is almost on par with Kohli and you just cant change it. As a matter of fact compared to Kohli he doesn't have a bad individual batting record either.

Misbah

26/56 @ 47 % win rate, 27% win rate in SENA. Individual average of 52.

Kohli

33/59 @ 56 % win rate @ 21% win rate in SENA. Individual average 60.2

... ROFL

Sterling Post mate.

Mamoon will be frothing at the mouth when facts get in the way of his opinion.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

1. Pakistan 1994-1999
2. India 2007-2011
3. Pakistan 1987-1992
4. India 2017-2021*

 

[Junaids]

Imran Khan’s team lost 1 series from 1985-92, by 1-0 in Australia, and drew three series 1-1 against the GOAT West Indians.

This India team has:

Lost 2 series in England
Lost 2 series in New Zealand
Lost 1 series in South Africa
Won 2 series against relatively weak Australian teams using makeshift openers (Finch in 18-19, Wade in 20-21).

 

[Chrish]

Won 2 series against relatively weak Australian teams using makeshift openers (Finch in 18-19, Wade in 20-21).

What an astute observation! “Relatively weak” team that has smashed every touring team not named South Africa into oblivion since eons.

But whatever. Carry on..

 

[Thunderbolt14]

What an astute observation! “Relatively weak” team that has smashed every touring team not named South Africa into oblivion since eons.

But whatever. Carry on..

This Australian team is nowhere near comparable to the Australian team of the 00s, which in turn was inferior to the GOAT West Indies of the 80s.

It’s a fantastic, fantastic win, but one win does not make a side GOAT. To be called greatest equates to sustained excellence and this India has been horrible away other than Australia.

Another 3 years of excellence, including some overseas wins or draws in England and NZ, can put India into contention for the best Asian team ever. Until then, this is simply the greatest home bully with a good record in one top country.

 

[NoBallZombie]

The following achievements make this Indian team the GOAT Asian Test team:

(a) two Test series wins in Australia, and both against a bowling attack of Cummins-Starc-Hazlewood-Lyon which is among the best Australia have fielded in the last 20-30 years after the McGrath-Warne generation, and in fact, the likes of Cummins and Hazlewood would get into that Australian attack because they are better than support bowlers like Gillespie and Lee.

(b) longest reign as the number 1 team in the 2010 decade.

(c) longest reign as the number 1 team for any Asian side in history.

(d) no home series lost in 6 years. Not only are they almost impossible to beat in a series, they rarely lose matches as well. This England loss was only their second home defeat in the Kohli era.

All these achievements makes them the GOAT Asian Test team, because the achievements of other Asian sides fall short in comparison.

This Indian bowling attack likes bite? They are biting hard than all other attacks. Their record in almost every country over the last 3-4 years is amazing. They keep taking wickets in all conditions.

After Muralitharan, Ashwin and Jadeja are as good as any Test spinner ever produced by Asia, and they would be world class even if they were number 11s. The fact that they are good batsmen makes them elite among the elites.

Bumrah is better than Zaheer who was more comparable to Shami. Ishant is also a far better Test bowler than the likes of Agarkar, Pathan, Balaji, RP Singh etc.

Ashwin and Jadeja is a better combo than Kumble and Harbhajan.

Pant’s keeping is not great yet, but he is as gifted with the bat as Gilchrist. He is well on his way of overtaking Dhoni as the greatest Asian Test WK batsman of all time.

Rizwan is a brilliant keeper and I think he is the best WK batsman Pakistan has ever had although the bar is embarrassingly low. However, Pant’s batting ability is something else. He is Gilchrist 2.0.

It is understandable to rate the 2000s Indian batting lineup higher, but this lineup is no slouch either.

Kohli is very much comparable to Tendulkar and better than Dravid, Laxman and Ganguly.

Pujara is almost as good as Dravid and Laxman and better than Ganguly.

Rahane is comparable to Ganguly but inferior to the rest of the Indian middle-order batsmen of the 2000s.

Sehwag was obviously a major factor that this team lacks, although the future looks very bright with the emergence of Gill.

I also think India missed a trick by not trusting Rohit as an opener earlier. Sure he will have his lean patches, but he has the ability to produce the same level of destruction on Asian pitches that Sehwag did.

Rohit is the type of player who can easily score a double-hundred in one day, and we saw glimpses of the damage he can do against South Africa last year.

He should have been trusted as an opener in Asian conditions over the last 4-5 years, instead of forcefully trying to accommodate him in the middle-order. It didn’t work in ODIs and didn’t work in Tests.

Overall, among all Asian Test teams of the past, the 2000s India would give them the toughest fight in most conditions, which is why I would put that Indian team as the second greatest Asian Test side, with Imran’s Pakistan at number 3.

Mamoon surely you couldnt have written this post with a straight face.

I know Bumrah is a good bowler (not an ATG at this point) but I rate shami higher than him in Tests. You can have one superstar but if the support cast is not good enough, you end up putting additional pressure on your lone star and effect his performance. Without going into the stats, I can tell you that with Shami, Bumrah is more effective as compared to without him. It is fairly similar to Shaheen's case where he is our premier bowler but when he does not have enough support, he looks very ineffective.

Ashwin and Jadeja have been titans in their home conditions and Ashwin has just recently started to look threatening in overseas conditions even though not in all of those conditions yet. He was good on the Aussie pitches here but you have to consider that in the recent past, the pitches rolled out have not been the traditional ones i.e. they have more spin support or are absolute roads specially the one in Sydney and now more so the ones in Melbourne too. Both of these play nicely into the Indian team's hand because there is limited lateral movement and their spinners come into play from day one. For bowlers to be considered GOAT, they have to at least average less than 30 in my opinion, here are Ashwin's SENA stats

NewZealand
Matches: 1
Wickets: 3
Avg: 33

England
Matches: 6
Wickets: 14
Avg: 33

South Africa
Matches: 3
Wickets: 7
Avg: 46

Australia
Matches: 10
Wickets: 62
Avg: 42

Again keeping in mind that I believe he is a beast at home but an ok bowler abroad. And unless he replicates his recent success against Aussies in the remaining SENA countries, I would put his success down to the change in pitches in Australia.

Not sure why you are comparing Pant with Gilly when the former cant even keep. Unless he is top in both dept, he cant be compared to any of the legendary keepers. The best of the lot from Asia is probably Dhoni and Sanga who can play alone as either a keeper or a batsman. Pant cannot play as a keeper alone in the side and would have been far away from the team had it not been for his batting. Pant is more comparable to Umar Akmal -- Similar physique, similar batting style and similar keeping skills. I am intentionally not talking about Rizwan because while he has been great recently, the sample size is too small but if he carries on for a couple of years at least, he can challenge dhoni and Sanga as the best ever keeper from Asia.

Now the batting order bit. Kohli vs Tendu is a debate in itself. I think Tendu was a better bat and Kohli has a better presence. Kohli has not had to face the kinds of bowlers or the types of pitches that Tendu faced. In summary -- and I know there is another thread somewhere for this discussion -- I think Tendu edges it.

You can't seriously compare Pujara with Dravid or Rahane with Ganguly? These guys were titans.....I am sure you have watched all these batters, the type of impact Dravid and Ganguly had on opposition can not be replicated by the other two. I dont even have to look at their stats.

The number 2 asian side you mentioned, the Pak side of that time was on par with that Indian side, if not better. They beat India in India in tests and frequently dominated them. So not sure how that is not in your top 2 list if you rank the indian 2000 team as number 2.

Overall I think you are letting your love for this Indian team cloud your judgement here.

 

[Chrish]

This Australian team is nowhere near comparable to the Australian team of the 00s, which in turn was inferior to the GOAT West Indies of the 80s.

It’s a fantastic, fantastic win, but one win does not make a side GOAT. To be called greatest equates to sustained excellence and this India has been horrible away other than Australia.

Another 3 years of excellence, including some overseas wins or draws in England and NZ, can put India into contention for the best Asian team ever. Until then, this is simply the greatest home bully with a good record in one top country.

I don’t care if they are GOAT Asian team or not. The recent win is the greatest overseas series victory of all time by any Asian team. Period. Pat Cummins is the best pace bowler. Smith is the best batsman. Marnus, Hazlewood, Starc, Waner all are world-Class. Calling it a weak team is pretty disingenuous.

Pakistan never beat GOAT WI team even at home. India beat great OZ team twice at home.

There is absolutely no evidence that great OZ team was inferior to great WI team. Both were head and shoulder above the rest in their respective era.

 

[Chrish]

Ask any serious English, Kiwi or even Pakistani fans about how much they would want to beat this weak Australian side.

They would drool over the idea of winning one game when playing in Australia, let alone winning a series.

 

[subshakerz]

I am wondering how Kohli would do against the below team around 1996-1997 when the bowlers were in their prime and captained by Wasim. I think Akrams side would seriously test Kohlis team in India with that bowling attack.

Sohail
Anwar
Ijaz
Inzi
Saleem Malik
Moin
Akram
Waqar
Saqlain
Mushtaq

 

[Chrish]

“90s Pakistan team was losing home series to the likes of Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe. They were a great team only on paper.”

Copied/pasted from another place by another poster. 80s Pak team easily better than their 90s counterpart.

 

[subshakerz]

They were actually a decent away team hence I was asking if they were to tour India.

 

[szrana007]

“90s Pakistan team was losing home series to the likes of Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe. They were a great team only on paper.”

Copied/pasted from another place by another poster. 80s Pak team easily better than their 90s counterpart.

Pakistan's away record in the 90's was very good though, second only to Australia in the 90's

 

[The lone Ranger]

Mamoon surely you couldnt have written this post with a straight face.

I know Bumrah is a good bowler (not an ATG at this point) but I rate shami higher than him in Tests. You can have one superstar but if the support cast is not good enough, you end up putting additional pressure on your lone star and effect his performance. Without going into the stats, I can tell you that with Shami, Bumrah is more effective as compared to without him. It is fairly similar to Shaheen's case where he is our premier bowler but when he does not have enough support, he looks very ineffective.

Ashwin and Jadeja have been titans in their home conditions and Ashwin has just recently started to look threatening in overseas conditions even though not in all of those conditions yet. He was good on the Aussie pitches here but you have to consider that in the recent past, the pitches rolled out have not been the traditional ones i.e. they have more spin support or are absolute roads specially the one in Sydney and now more so the ones in Melbourne too. Both of these play nicely into the Indian team's hand because there is limited lateral movement and their spinners come into play from day one. For bowlers to be considered GOAT, they have to at least average less than 30 in my opinion, here are Ashwin's SENA stats

NewZealand
Matches: 1
Wickets: 3
Avg: 33

England
Matches: 6
Wickets: 14
Avg: 33

South Africa
Matches: 3
Wickets: 7
Avg: 46

Australia
Matches: 10
Wickets: 62
Avg: 42

Again keeping in mind that I believe he is a beast at home but an ok bowler abroad. And unless he replicates his recent success against Aussies in the remaining SENA countries, I would put his success down to the change in pitches in Australia.

Not sure why you are comparing Pant with Gilly when the former cant even keep. Unless he is top in both dept, he cant be compared to any of the legendary keepers. The best of the lot from Asia is probably Dhoni and Sanga who can play alone as either a keeper or a batsman. Pant cannot play as a keeper alone in the side and would have been far away from the team had it not been for his batting. Pant is more comparable to Umar Akmal -- Similar physique, similar batting style and similar keeping skills. I am intentionally not talking about Rizwan because while he has been great recently, the sample size is too small but if he carries on for a couple of years at least, he can challenge dhoni and Sanga as the best ever keeper from Asia.

Now the batting order bit. Kohli vs Tendu is a debate in itself. I think Tendu was a better bat and Kohli has a better presence. Kohli has not had to face the kinds of bowlers or the types of pitches that Tendu faced. In summary -- and I know there is another thread somewhere for this discussion -- I think Tendu edges it.

You can't seriously compare Pujara with Dravid or Rahane with Ganguly? These guys were titans.....I am sure you have watched all these batters, the type of impact Dravid and Ganguly had on opposition can not be replicated by the other two. I dont even have to look at their stats.

The number 2 asian side you mentioned, the Pak side of that time was on par with that Indian side, if not better. They beat India in India in tests and frequently dominated them. So not sure how that is not in your top 2 list if you rank the indian 2000 team as number 2.

Overall I think you are letting your love for this Indian team cloud your judgement here.

Yes, the pitches they have prepared were not the traditional ones where they used to make 600 for fun and 400+ by visiting teams in return. Even Pakistan once made 450 in the 4th innings on those traditional pitches.

Now they produced roads just to get bundled out for less than 200. You need to be more clear on whether they were spinner friendlier or roads because if they were spinner friendlier then you have to give more credits to India's batting on day 5 on those pitches. If they were roads, then you have to give more credits to Ashwin's performance.

 

[szrana007]

Imran Khan’s team lost 1 series from 1985-92, by 1-0 in Australia, and drew three series 1-1 against the GOAT West Indians.

This India team has:

Lost 2 series in England
Lost 2 series in New Zealand
Lost 1 series in South Africa
Won 2 series against relatively weak Australian teams using makeshift openers (Finch in 18-19, Wade in 20-21).

This Indian team hasn't lost 2 series in NZL and 2 series in Eng they have lost 1 each, where are you getting your info from? The 2014 NZL and Eng series should be discounted as they happened in the Dhoni era.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

I don’t care if they are GOAT Asian team or not. The recent win is the greatest overseas series victory of all time by any Asian team. Period. Pat Cummins is the best pace bowler. Smith is the best batsman. Marnus, Hazlewood, Starc, Waner all are world-Class. Calling it a weak team is pretty disingenuous.

I agree. It is. I’m just disagreeing with anyone saying that this team itself is GOAT, that’s a silly thing to say. The win was certainly the best ever by an Asian team, especially given the fact that India’s B team pulled through a 2-1 win. I will be willing to say that India’s B team is the greatest B team of all time, but for me to refer to Kohli’s India as a whole as the greatest Asian team, I need to see India draw or win in England, SA, and NZ within the next 3 years.

Pakistan never beat GOAT WI team even at home. India beat great OZ team twice at home.

My friend Pakistan beat the GOAT WI team in a series that we drew 1-1 and were the undisputed number 2 team in the 80s decade, only overshadowed due to the greatest team ever. That series is also famous for biased umpiring, and was the single biggest reason Imran Khan fought to bring neutral umpires into the setup - we would have won the series otherwise.

We also beat and drew with some fantastic, fantastic teams like NZ, Australia away from home and created a fortress at home. That NZ was arguably the best ever NZ side until the modern incarnation under Williamson. And certainly better than the Australia that India beat. We dominated the likes of India and England. I would highly encourage you to go and look at some of those away series, both scorecards and any clips you can find on youtube. Those games would put anyone claiming that the current Indian side is the greatest ever to shame.

There is absolutely no evidence that great OZ team was inferior to great WI team. Both were head and shoulder above the rest in their respective era.

Most cricket analysts and cricketers themselves will tell you that the West Indies team was the greatest of all time. Nevertheless, the Indian team that beat the great OZ team (in individual games) was certainly fantastic and you’ll see in my earlier ranking that I’ve actually rated that team higher than the current Indian team.

Some trolls here however would like us to believe that 2021 India is better than the 2007 India that beat the great Australian team. Forget Pakistan.

 

[Buffet]

I don’t care if they are GOAT Asian team or not. The recent win is the greatest overseas series victory of all time by any Asian team. Period. Pat Cummins is the best pace bowler. Smith is the best batsman. Marnus, Hazlewood, Starc, Waner all are world-Class. Calling it a weak team is pretty disingenuous.

Pakistan never beat GOAT WI team even at home. India beat great OZ team twice at home.

There is absolutely no evidence that great OZ team was inferior to great WI team. Both were head and shoulder above the rest in their respective era.

The best batsman in the world. The best bowler in the world. 4-5 other world-class players. And we have 'some' posters claiming that it was a weak Aus side? That too in their home.