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The greatest Asian Test team of all time

Good improvement in overseas tests in past 10 months. Before that, they were carrying only home track bullies.
 
Robert said:
Well, thereby hangs a tale.

Gatt took a long time to get established at test level. He was dropped every time England lost, like his team mate Ramprakash later on.

Then when he got his mind right, for about three years he was England’s best batsman, piling on big centuries. He missed that ‘86 Windies series through injury. He came back to win the Ashes and two ODI tournaments on one tour. He scored two centuries against Imran, Wasim and Qadir in 1987. Then he fell foul of politics and a tabloid honey-trap and was sacked as skipper during the 1988 Windies series, and dropped himself, and then got banned for going to SA and that was his test career, by-and-large. He had one more test hundred in the tank, in Australia, commenting humbly that he owed skipper Atherton a few runs.
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I believe RObin smith took his spot. Had a decent series vs Austrlalia. Gooch/Gatting/Robin smith all looked hopeless against Kumble in 1993. Indians were so much angry with Azharuddin's captaincy after his series losses in Australia/SA, world cup loss, some Indians were rooting for England. Graeme Hick was considered to be next Bradman at that time. Sadly he didn't live up to the expectation. He was the only one that looked somewhat assured during that tour. Made a 178 at Chennai.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
I believe RObin smith took his spot. Had a decent series vs Austrlalia. Gooch/Gatting/Robin smith all looked hopeless against Kumble in 1993. Indians were so much angry with Azharuddin's captaincy after his series losses in Australia/SA, world cup loss, some Indians were rooting for England. Graeme Hick was considered to be next Bradman at that time. Sadly he didn't live up to the expectation. He was the only one that looked somewhat assured during that tour. Made a 178 at Chennai.
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England desperately missed Gower on that tour.

Gooch was going through a divorce and should not really have been playing cricket. His mind was not right.
 
Robert said:
England desperately missed Gower on that tour.

Gooch was going through a divorce and should not really have been playing cricket. His mind was not right.
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Yup that whole series was a bit of a shambles from the moment the “young lions” squad was selected. Ironic considering there were two 40 yr olds selected.

They did miss Gower especially as he just played half decently against one of the best attacks of all time - Wasim, Waqar, Aqib and Mushy

Let’s not forget Delhi belly too.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
I believe RObin smith took his spot. Had a decent series vs Austrlalia. Gooch/Gatting/Robin smith all looked hopeless against Kumble in 1993. Indians were so much angry with Azharuddin's captaincy after his series losses in Australia/SA, world cup loss, some Indians were rooting for England. Graeme Hick was considered to be next Bradman at that time. Sadly he didn't live up to the expectation. He was the only one that looked somewhat assured during that tour. Made a 178 at Chennai.
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Hick was considered bradman until his test debut in 1991. From the moment he debuted first ambrose and co, then Wasim and Waqar exposed him as just a county basher. By the time they played india in 92/93 he was already considered a bit of a joke.

I guess the easier and less physically threatening bowling of Indian gentle medium pacers and non turning spinners like kumble gave him a bit of confidence
 
TheSultan said:
Hick was considered bradman until his test debut in 1991. From the moment he debuted first ambrose and co, then Wasim and Waqar exposed him as just a county basher. By the time they played india in 92/93 he was already considered a bit of a joke.

I guess the easier and less physically threatening bowling of Indian gentle medium pacers and non turning spinners like kumble gave him a bit of confidence
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And yet he had a good average against Donald and Pollock. He had a technical issue on the back foot which the top quicks spotted and exploited, and that turned into a confidence issue, but at times he could overcome this and at times not.

Also one of the best England ODI men.

I suppose KP was what Hick should have been.
 
A fantastic exhibition of test match batting today from India in tough spinning conditions. The lads are digging in and spending valuable time on the crease.

Despite it being a tough ground to score singles they have rotated the strike well.
 
They are doing alright in the supposedly best format "Tests" (except the farced "Finals")
 
DeadlyVenom said:
A fantastic exhibition of test match batting today from India in tough spinning conditions. The lads are digging in and spending valuable time on the crease.

Despite it being a tough ground to score singles they have rotated the strike well.
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Beat Australia in Australia and were dominating England in England in the same calendar year - whereas some other teams were struggling to win against minnows West Indies .
 
The only cricket that matters. As a test purist as some liked to quote me for that, I wait for the South Africa tour.

These are meaningless matches going around.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Beat Australia in Australia and were dominating England in England in the same calendar year - whereas some other teams were struggling to win against minnows West Indies .
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Lost in the final of that format too.

Anyway my point was that they played well because of their test credentials. Beautiful defensive batting on display today.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Beat Australia in Australia and were dominating England in England in the same calendar year - whereas some other teams were struggling to win against minnows West Indies .
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Suddenly T20 has become important format of cricket! Its high time India/BCCI sends a special team to T20I who play only T20 (IPL + International T20). This is the way to go forward! ODI team should have players who play only IPL (optional) + ODI. Test team should have only IPL (optional) + Test players! This is very important to keep the players fresh (both physically & mentally + financially!)

Instead most people here think that IPL should be banned and all players should play only international cricket! In this way we will go back to how we were playing in 90s... I am happy that we are at least doing well in Test Cricket!
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
Still you are losing your sleep over these matches. :inti
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How did you figure that out lol?

It is a meaningless tournament and you can't even accuse me that I am saying it because of India's performance. I have been saying this from past one year and I firmly stick to it. :inti

I hope my T20 tamasha cricket fans like you have an answer to defend this shambolic performance of your team as you do watch T20 cricket with all eyes glued to the TV sets. I hope your Television sets are fine? :yk :inti
 
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Ab Fan said:
The only cricket that matters. As a test purist as some liked to quote me for that, I wait for the South Africa tour.

These are meaningless matches going around.
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You wouldn't have said that before the tournament as your team were favourites and you certainly wouldn't be saying this if your team was to lift the cup.
 
topspin said:
You wouldn't have said that before the tournament as your team were favourites and you certainly wouldn't be saying this if your team was to lift the cup.
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He is frustrated, confused and certainly can't take the pressure of his own big statements. He supports IPL but has a problem with International T20s. He said before the world cup that Pandya will be the hero of T20 World Cup and is now calling this World Cup meaningless. :inti
 
topspin said:
You wouldn't have said that before the tournament as your team were favourites and you certainly wouldn't be saying this if your team was to lift the cup.
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Well, I have been saying it from past one year now. Those who have followed me closely know it very well, so you got it completely wrong here. I am sure there would be enough posts here to find out that because I have repeatedly said it. Not once or twice.

I think it is a challenge for Indian fans like Bhaag Viru Bhaag to defend as they were valuing this tournament very highly. I hope they don't end up exposing their actual nationality today as they look bitter and confused themselves what to do now :inti
 
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Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
He is frustrated, confused and certainly can't take the pressure of his own big statements. He supports IPL but has a problem with International T20s. He said before the world cup that Pandya will be the hero of T20 World Cup and is now calling this World Cup meaningless. :inti
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As far as I remember he was very bullish about India's prospects and there's nothing wrong with that as they have such a good side.

But to say it's meaningless just because the expectations haven't met is what I call a very bad sore loser.

If I'm not mistaken he also claimed that Kohli's half century was superior to Babar's and to claim the latter isn't a match winner was just laughable.
 
Ab Fan said:
The only cricket that matters. As a test purist as some liked to quote me for that, I wait for the South Africa tour.

These are meaningless matches going around.
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You post quite a lot for the meaningless matches!
And if it's the only cricket that does matter, who do you rate as the best batsman of the generation?
 
This brutal destruction of New Zealand - India showing who's boss!
 
It is not even a debate. You have to be utterly deluded or in complete denial to argue that any other Asian side has a stronger claim and can list greater achievements.

Kohli’s India, or 2015-present Indian team is undoubtedly the greatest Asian Test side that has ever been assembled.
 
Mamoon said:
It is not even a debate. You have to be utterly deluded or in complete denial to argue that any other Asian side has a stronger claim and can list greater achievements.

Kohli’s India, or 2015-present Indian team is undoubtedly the greatest Asian Test side that has ever been assembled.
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No mention of test wins count under Kohli? :vk
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">India in the last 12 months in Test cricket:<br><br>Beat Australia at Melbourne<br>Beat Australia at Brisbane<br>Beat England at Lord's<br>Beat England at The Oval<br>Beat South Africa at Centurion<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1476512037710749699?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 30, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
MenInG said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">India in the last 12 months in Test cricket:<br><br>Beat Australia at Melbourne<br>Beat Australia at Brisbane<br>Beat England at Lord's<br>Beat England at The Oval<br>Beat South Africa at Centurion<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1476512037710749699?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 30, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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With some notable wins like that its hard not to concede that this India team is one of the best.

Sure some fans may put asterix beside certain wins but its not India's fault that South Africa/England are weak. They have got to beat whoever is in front of them and at the moment they are doing it quite comfortably.
 
Well on the way to conquering the final frontier South Africa..

I believe they got this, if they win the next match, this will be the greatest Asian test side ever and also the 3rd best side of all time after the 80's WI and Aus of the early 2000s..
 
South African conditions are very similar to Australian.

Of course India will win there.

The issue is their endless losses in New Zealand.
 
The reigning, defending, undisputed Greatest Asian test team.
Lol at people claiming that title for the team who won two test overseas :))
 
Junaids said:
South African conditions are very similar to Australian.

Of course India will win there.

The issue is their endless losses in New Zealand.
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Results in New Zealand doesn't matter that much as we have already beaten more stronger Australia with our C team. Name one Asian side that has dominate Australia, England and RSA away from the home.
Question is which is the strongest ever Asian team and obvious answer is India as we have beaten Australia, England and RSA in same year.
India's current bowling attack as unit is also the best ever from Asia.
 
street cricketer said:
I've always been amazed by this thread. It's as if becoming the GOAT asian side is a very difficult achievement. I think I've said this before but the benchmark for asian sides isn't really great. Asian sides historically have been lions at home and lambs abroad.

The only two sides worth considering in the debate are Imran's (& Miandad) side during the 80s and the Indian side of the 2000s. I've compared the current Indian side to both of those sides and the Indian side of 2000s and Pakistan of 80s compare very similarly with each other. But both fall short in stats at home and away from home compared to the current Indian side both in terms of win loss ratios and achievements outside asia.

The series won outside asia by Imran and Miandad's Pakistan were:

Two series wins in England and a series win in New Zealand - 3.

They drew two series one in Windies and one in NZ - 2.

The series won by the Indian side of 2000s were

Two series wins in the Caribbean, one in England and one in NZ - 4.

They also drew a series in Aus and SA - 2.

This current Indian side under Kohli and Rahane have already won two series in Australia, two series in the Caribbean and are leading this series 2-1 in England. So that's 5 series won or being led outside asia. And they aren't yet finished as a side. They tour South Africa next where they have a decent chance of winning too.

The biggest difference between the current Indian side and the Pakistani side of 80s and Indian side of 2000s is that the current side is very attacking and rarely draws series - it either wins or loses which is partly responsible for its more series wins outside asia and it also has a higher win loss ratio outside asia compared to the other two. Imran's side was a great side but it was defensive and played in a manner to not lose rather than to win which is why they have a high amount of draws, the Indian side of noughties were great but while they brought their best against the great Australian side, they weren't as dominant overall and were at best the third best side during that era after Aus and SA.

The current Indian side is far more attacking than the former two which points to its higher win loss ratio and their home record is unmatched by any other side in test cricket history. They're easily better than any other Asian side to have played the game and are currently competing with the Saffer side of the late 2000s and early 2010s from a legacy pov. They can better their legacy if they tick the box in South Africa too by winning there later this year. Of course the GOAT teams are the Windies and the Australian sides.
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Repeating this. Asian sides have always struggled away from home that it's not really a difficult task in becoming the best asian side ever. The benchmark is so low that India already breached that when they won in Australia earlier this year. There has never been an Asian side that has consistently won overseas, so I'm amused at this thread continuing as if there's any serious competition in history.
 
street cricketer said:
There has never been an Asian side that has consistently won overseas, so I'm amused at this thread continuing as if there's any serious competition in history.
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+1

There is no serious competition. IK's team won 1-2 tests outside Asia. The Indian team of 2007-2011 won a bit more but not that much more. Kohli's team has long surpassed other teams due to winning so much away. If you add home then they are probably the most dominant team in the history of cricket at home.
 
Any team in history would be proud of getting the same results as India has in the past couple of years.

The only blip is the WTC final but that's something that is relatively new to the cricketing world.

Winning bilaterals in Aus, Eng and potentially SA is the stuff of champions and historically this has been the pinnacle for test sides.

Congrats to India and Indians on this momentous occasion.
 
Romali_rotti said:
Well on the way to conquering the final frontier South Africa..

I believe they got this, if they win the next match, this will be the greatest Asian test side ever and also the 3rd best side of all time after the 80's WI and Aus of the early 2000s..
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Given the extended run of success , fair to say it’s better than the Australian side . It’s slightly inferior to the great West Indian side as the batting quality is slightly inferior to that side but bowling wise , it’s better than either of the three attacks .
 
docteurmanish said:
Given the extended run of success , fair to say it’s better than the Australian side . It’s slightly inferior to the great West Indian side as the batting quality is slightly inferior to that side but bowling wise , it’s better than either of the three attacks .
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Nah, Great Aus and WI sides were superior. What do you mean by extended run? They both had extended runs and had better batting. This Indian team does not have gun batting.
 
Buffet said:
Nah, Great Aus and WI sides were superior. What do you mean by extended run? They both had extended runs and had better batting. This Indian team does not have gun batting.
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If india can win next series in NZ then this indian team can campare to those great sides but now we are behind to both of them .
 
Always said that good pacers and capable batters are the difference between being a decent Test team and a very good Test team.

At the moment India has a good array of pacers who can trouble any opposition batting line-up and they have a capable batting group who has the skills to put up decent totals around the world.
 
This Indian team is making a strong case to be considered an ATG Test team. The bowling attack( pace + spin) is simply amazing. Batting lineup is competent enough with the openers in good touch but the only question is how long will the middle order be carried like this and India still keep on winning?

They have been lucky that India haven't lost a series in recent times so there has not been many questions raised on them yet.
 
Saj said:
Always said that good pacers and capable batters are the difference between being a decent Test team and a very good Test team.

At the moment India has a good array of pacers who can trouble any opposition batting line-up and they have a capable batting group who has the skills to put up decent totals around the world.
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Don’t forget the spinners too.
 
Romali_rotti said:
Well on the way to conquering the final frontier South Africa..

I believe they got this, if they win the next match, this will be the greatest Asian test side ever and also the 3rd best side of all time after the 80's WI and Aus of the early 2000s..
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The "3rd best side" lost to NZ in the final :))) Delusional.
 
I had my doubts initially due to India's ageing and out of form middle order and although I thought India can pull off a series win in one of AUS, RSA or ENG but not all three.

In 2021 India have proved beyond doubt that they are the best Asian team in history.

I don't think any Asian team has won test series in Australia, England and South Africa within a span of just over 1 year but India are doing it.

Yes, New Zealand is one country this team would like to conquer but other than that they have been perfect.

This team tough to beat for anyone.
 
Most Test wins in a year for India:

9 - 2016
8 - 2010, 2021
7 - 2017, 2018, 2019

Only once have India won more Tests in a year than they have in 2021.
 
A phenomenal 2021 in Test Match Cricket for #TeamIndia ....Brisbane, Oval, Lord's and now Centurion in 2021
After memorable wins at the Gabba and Lord's, team India wrapped up 2021 in style by bringing down South Africa's citadel, the Supersport Park, as they handed the Proteas a 113-run loss in the opening Tes as India became the first Asian team to win a Test match at the SuperSport Park. Perfect way to end a stellar year for Indian Test Cricket.
 
Ozymandiasza said:
The "3rd best side" lost to NZ in the final :))) Delusional.
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Yeah it can happen when one side is isolating for covid with no match practice while the other one is all prepared playing a series getting well used to the conditions. It's not rocket science.... one off test matches don't mean anything
 
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It's easily the greatest Asian test team of all time.
There's no other competition. Let's move on.
 
MenInG said:
Do India still justify that label?
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Yes.
1. KL Rahul/Agarwal
2. Rohit/ Gill
3. Pujara
4. Kohli
5. Rahane
6. Pant

Have you seen so many average/good test batsman in any other team.
The whole batting line up is bang average apart from Kohli.
 
The greatest Asian side remains Sachin-Dravid side for me by some margin. The opposition they played against were far superior. Yes you can only beat what is in front of you. However they competed against the best Australian side ever, the best English side in a long time, our best team since readmision. I just wish they had this awesome bowling attack though. I like their pace attack
 
They are good bcz oppositions are weak... the team with Donald, Pollock, Kirsten, Kallis would have roasted them flat ... they could take on this SA bowling, what would they have done against Donald/Pollock lol

this is a bang avg team.... xcellent bowling though....

this is kind of the team Pak had with super class bowling and avg batting


and this is on a downhill from here.... Kholi was the glue keeping it up there... and the king is on downhill himself .... lets see where they stand in 6 months... dosnt look good
 
More like the greatest jobbers of all time. What an Almighty choke led by King Chokli himself, it’s a disgrace to compare this team to any of the best from the past.
 
Losses in NZ and worst ever SA test team will show as blavk marks against this current indian team.
 
As I said before, the debate ended after India’s win in Australia last year. Whatever this Indian team achieved or did not achieve after that point changed nothing with respect to their legacy compared to other Asian teams.

They have already surpassed all Asian Test teams of the past, let’s see if any Asian team (basically any Indian team of the future since others aren’t capable) can catch up.

- Longest reign as a number 1 ranked team for an Asian side

- Longest reign as a number 1 ranked team in the 2010-20 decade

- two Test series wins in Australia, all other Asian sides have zero

- unbeaten in a home series

You have to be absolute bonkers to believe or argue that any Asian side of the past can list a greater list of achievements.
 
Great teams do not lose a series after leading 1-0 in a 3 match series vs. the weakest SA team in history.

Other honourary mentions:

Losing CT17 final
Losing WTC final
Losing 152-0

As far as Kohli the captain

All of the above plus:

Never won a WT20
Never won a WC
Never won an IPL tournament
Fluke win vs Australia first time round vs. weak Oz team
Absent in second series win vs Australia.

Winning at home isn't an achievement; it the expectation anyway.
 
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Technics 1210 said:
Great teams do not lose a series after leading 1-0 in a 3 match series vs. the weakest SA team in history.

Other honourary mentions:

Losing CT17 final
Losing WTC final
Losing 152-0

As far as Kohli the captain

All of the above plus:

Never won a WT20
Never won a WC
Never won an IPL tournament
Fluke win vs Australia first time round vs. weak Oz team
Absent in second series win vs Australia.

Winning at home isn't an achievement; it the expectation anyway.
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So who is the greatest Asian team in your opinion?
 
Mamoon said:
As I said before, the debate ended after India’s win in Australia last year. Whatever this Indian team achieved or did not achieve after that point changed nothing with respect to their legacy compared to other Asian teams.

They have already surpassed all Asian Test teams of the past, let’s see if any Asian team (basically any Indian team of the future since others aren’t capable) can catch up.

- Longest reign as a number 1 ranked team for an Asian side

- Longest reign as a number 1 ranked team in the 2010-20 decade

- two Test series wins in Australia, all other Asian sides have zero

- unbeaten in a home series

You have to be absolute bonkers to believe or argue that any Asian side of the past can list a greater list of achievements.
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Not as bonkers as Ashwin being better then Imran Khan.
 
How is this even a question?

Is someone seriously going to put Imran's team which won a total of 2 tests in SENAW ahead of Kohli's team.Lol
 
Greatest Asian test side of all-time due to the unbelievable 2020 Test Series win in Australia led by Shastri and mastered by Pant.

As captain, I would say, Kohli is the third greatest Asian captain of all-time, could have been the best had he beaten South Africa in South Africa or won the World Test Championship.

One away series win in 2018 against a weak Aussies side is unfortunately not enough for me.
 
The leaving of the Indian team in Australia tour 2020 after the 36 all out goes big time against him.

His captaincy in Lords Test last year remains the highlight of his test career.
 
Kohli's team had ended that debate a long time back for anyone caring about actual results.

He did not have serious competition, to begin with. IK team won like 1-2 tests outside of Asia and at home drastically less domination than Kohli's team. The gap is very large there. The Indian team of the late 00s won a bit more than IK's team, but still not as much Kohli's team. No Asian team dominated the way Kohli's team has dominated at home.

----------------------------------------------------

W/L of all teams Since 2016, when playing Away

Ind: 1.2
...
...
...
Aus : 0.6
Pak : 0.6
Eng : 0.5
SA: 0.5
NZ : 0.4

One stand-out team which made world cricket interesting because they could go and play well in all conditions. Everyone else has been hovering around 0.5. Hope is that some other teams take over to keep cricket interesting for away tours.

----------------------


Home record since 2016,

Ind : 11.5
..
...
..
...
...
NZ 4.5
Aus 3.3
SA 2.3
Eng 1.7
SL 1.1

The gap here is multiple times than away record.

-----------------------

What a phenomenal run by the Indian team under Kohli.
 
This Indian team was never anytime close to a great WI/Aus team due to weak batting. The great Aus/WI team remains the stand-out team in world cricket.
 
Buffet said:
This Indian team was never anytime close to a great WI/Aus team due to weak batting. The great Aus/WI team remains the stand-out team in world cricket.
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There is no comparison between Wesindies and Australian team.

West Indies did not lose a Test series for 15 long years 1980-95, while that great Australian team did lose away test series in Sri lanka 1999, India 2001 and notably Ashes of 2005. Yes that team did win 11 straight Tests under Waugh but lost in India. Similarly 2005 Ashes.

West indies did not lose single series for 15 years.
 
Sarwar89 said:
There is no comparison between Wesindies and Australian team.

West Indies did not lose a Test series for 15 long years 1980-95, while that great Australian team did lose away test series in Sri lanka 1999, India 2001 and notably Ashes of 2005. Yes that team did win 11 straight Tests under Waugh but lost in India. Similarly 2005 Ashes.

West indies did not lose single series for 15 years.
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WI team lost in NZ on their first attempt and couldn't win on the second attempt in 80s.

WI team also drew many away series in India, Pakistan, Aus etc in 80s.
 
I will prefer a record of higher W/L than not losing kind of record. You play cricket to win, go ahead and win a lot even if you end up losing some in process of winning. Not much to do with WI team because they won plenty, just a general point.
 
Buffet said:
WI team lost in NZ on their first attempt and couldn't win on the second attempt in 80s.

WI team also drew many away series in India, Pakistan, Aus etc in 80s.
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Drew but not lost. There is one key stat they did not lose a Test series for 15 years. 1980-1995

That great Australian team lost 3 key test
1999 sri lanka 2005 eng 2001 india
3 series they lost in 6 years cycle.

India is bot even in league. Lost to South Africa twice 2018,2022, lost to England 4-1 in 2018 as well and lost to nzl 2-0 as well. India is not even in ATG discussion in my books.
 
Buffet said:
I will prefer a record of higher W/L than not losing kind of record. You play cricket to win, go ahead and win a lot even if you end up losing some in process of winning. Not much to do with WI team because they won plenty, just a general point.
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Then you can follow odi cricket.
 
Sarwar89 said:
Drew but not lost. There is one key stat they did not lose a Test series for 15 years. 1980-1995
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Not correct.

WI played 3 tests series in 1980. 1st test was won by NZ and the other two tests were drawn. NZ won the series by 1-0.

1st Test, Dunedin, Feb 8 - 13 1980 - Won by NZ
2nd Test, Christchurch, Feb 22 - 27 1980 - Draw
3rd Test, Auckland, Feb 29 - Mar 5 1980 - Draw

Now can we stop calling WI GOAT team? Since you prefer that only teams not losing any series can be called that. I don't have any issue with WI losing to NZ because when all dais and done, WI won a whole lot more than what they lost and remained rank 1 team for a very long time.
 
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Sarwar89 said:
Drew but not lost. There is one key stat they did not lose a Test series for 15 years. 1980-1995

That great Australian team lost 3 key test
1999 sri lanka 2005 eng 2001 india
3 series they lost in 6 years cycle.

India is bot even in league. Lost to South Africa twice 2018,2022, lost to England 4-1 in 2018 as well and lost to nzl 2-0 as well. India is not even in ATG discussion in my books.
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India was never in a discussion of being clubbed with a great Aus/WI team. Those two teams were truly outstanding and ATG teams.
 
Buffet said:
Not correct.

WI played 3 tests series in 1980. 1st test was won by NZ and the other two tests were drawn. NZ won the series by 1-0.

1st Test, Dunedin, Feb 8 - 13 1980 - Won by NZ
2nd Test, Christchurch, Feb 22 - 27 1980 - Draw
3rd Test, Auckland, Feb 29 - Mar 5 1980 - Draw

Now can we stop calling WI GOAT team? Since you prefer that only teams not losing any series can be called that. I don't have any issue with WI losing to NZ because when all dais and done, WI won a whole lot more than what they lost and remained rank 1 team for a very long time.
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I think in my other post i mentioned it very clearly that ATG west indian cricket period started after losing to Nzl. After that they dud not lose any series for 15 years home/away and also beat nzl in 1994 away from home.

Once a team will remain unbeaten in 30 TEST series or 16 years unbeaten in tests then yes you can bring a case.
 
Buffet said:
India was never in a discussion of being clubbed with a great Aus/WI team. Those two teams were truly outstanding and ATG teams.
Click to expand...

Ok but Aussies were unbeaten in 16 Test series and lost 3 Test series between their peak 6 year cycle 1999-2005.
 
Sarwar89 said:
I think in my other post i mentioned it very clearly that ATG west indian cricket period started after losing to Nzl. After that they dud not lose any series for 15 years home/away and also beat nzl in 1994 away from home.

Once a team will remain unbeaten in 30 TEST series or 16 years unbeaten in tests then yes you can bring a case.
Click to expand...

Oh, I must have missed that. I don't think we are ever going to see a team not losing 30 test series in the current era of so many teams playing well at home. It was the product of the WI era. I will leave it at that and not extrapolate.

If you care to look,

During 80s' - only 3 teams had W/L of greater than 1.3 at home - WI, NZ, and Pak. WI struggled to win against NZ and Pak.

During Aus time - 7 teams had W/L of greater than 1.3 at home. No surprise that the Aus team lost a few away series.

Right now 6 teams have W/L of greater than 1.3 at home. I don't expect any team to not lose away series when so many teams have a good record at home.

As I said, fans romanticize too much about WI not losing. Where they would have lost? At home? No good team loses at home. When playing away? Sure if you have some decent away teams in your era. During WI time only two teams(Pak and NZ) had a decent home record.

Sure, nothing to take away from WI. You can win only whoever you are playing against. But WI avoiding loss for a long period had two components. WI being a gun team. The majority of teams were ordinary at home in 80s. I won't hold losing a few away series against Aus. They had different challenge than WI.
 
Sarwar89 said:
Ok but Aussies were unbeaten in 16 Test series and lost 3 Test series between their peak 6 year cycle 1999-2005.
Click to expand...

See above, I addressed that. Only two decent home record teams in 80s outside of WI. NZ and Pak. WI struggled to win against both. Aus had 7 teams with a decent home record. No surprise they lost a few.
 
Buffet said:
Kohli's team had ended that debate a long time back for anyone caring about actual results.

He did not have serious competition, to begin with. IK team won like 1-2 tests outside of Asia and at home drastically less domination than Kohli's team. The gap is very large there. The Indian team of the late 00s won a bit more than IK's team, but still not as much Kohli's team. No Asian team dominated the way Kohli's team has dominated at home.

----------------------------------------------------

W/L of all teams Since 2016, when playing Away

Ind: 1.2
...
...
...
Aus : 0.6
Pak : 0.6
Eng : 0.5
SA: 0.5
NZ : 0.4

One stand-out team which made world cricket interesting because they could go and play well in all conditions. Everyone else has been hovering around 0.5. Hope is that some other teams take over to keep cricket interesting for away tours.

----------------------


Home record since 2016,

Ind : 11.5
..
...
..
...
...
NZ 4.5
Aus 3.3
SA 2.3
Eng 1.7
SL 1.1

The gap here is multiple times than away record.

-----------------------

What a phenomenal run by the Indian team under Kohli.
Click to expand...

So you compare this side to the Indian side of the 00's how is that fair? Do we not take into account the quality of opposition? Is it plausible that the 00's Indian side would comfortably be the best side in the world atm (even with a weak bowling attack)? I get that you can only beat what is in front of you. But surely common sense has to prevail. Unless we're purely comparing results, then I'd agree.
 
soso_killer said:
So you compare this side to the Indian side of the 00's how is that fair? Do we not take into account the quality of opposition? Is it plausible that the 00's Indian side would comfortably be the best side in the world atm (even with a weak bowling attack)? I get that you can only beat what is in front of you. But surely common sense has to prevail. Unless we're purely comparing results, then I'd agree.
Click to expand...

The Indian team of the 2000s didn't have a good bowling attack, bar Kumble and Zaheer in patches.
 
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