The Jasprit Bumrah workload myth: Is opting out of the 2nd Test against England justified?

[DeadlyVenom]

Imran got his trophy at 38.

He already has more 5fers in SENA wins than any other Asian bowlers, come up with a proper defence for that before nonsensically claiming him to be non impactful .

Even if he is 31 he definitely will end up with around 300 wkts which will be more than enough to be a legend.

Cope harder

If he was to retire now would you say he is a tier one legend and ATG?

Imran got his trophy at 38 but the trophy Bumrah has weren't around in Imrans time so we cant compare on the basis of trophies.

 

[sweep_shot]

If he was to retire now would you say he is a tier one legend and ATG?

Imran got his trophy at 38 but the trophy Bumrah has weren't around in Imrans time so we cant compare on the basis of trophies.

Bumrah won one Mickey Mouse trophy (T20 WC).

He is yet to win any real one, such as ODI WC or WTC.

 

[mominsaigol]

Bumrah won one Mickey Mouse trophy (T20 WC).

He is yet to win any real one, such as ODI WC or WTC.

He didn't pandya did. He got klaseem

 

[mominsaigol]

Seethe, bud .. seethe.

His competition is now Mcgrath and Marshall. Fixkram and Cell-mate is no longer in contention.

Why do you guys troll?

Do you seriously view a player with 200 test wickets and 0 trophies inc competition with Mcgrath and Marshall?

Name one goat pace bowler who doesnt have a 10 fer? Or a 40+ avg against any team? That too in his own home den?

If No of wickets dont matter, Trophies dont matter etc etc, only avergae does then Scott Boland is the greatest pacer of all time.

Lets debate why Boland is > Bumrah using the rubbish metrics you lot have applied.

Their is zero coping, you guys can't keep utilising the Pakistani racism card forever. At some point it'll get old.

 

[mominsaigol]

Imran got his trophy at 38.

He already has more 5fers in SENA wins than any other Asian bowlers, come up with a proper defence for that before nonsensically claiming him to be non impactful .

Even if he is 31 he definitely will end up with around 300 wkts which will be more than enough to be a legend.

Cope harder

But how many 10 fers

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

If he was to retire now would you say he is a tier one legend and ATG?

Imran got his trophy at 38 but the trophy Bumrah has weren't around in Imrans time so we cant compare on the basis of trophies.

Bowlers like Javagal Srinath and Chaminda Vaas were truly unlucky not to play in this era. They would have torn through batting lineups with ease. Back then, they were the tireless workhorses of their teams.

 

[Mamoon]

The reality is that Bumrah is closer to a Ryan Harris or a Scott Boland than Wasim or Imran. Bowlers with excellent stats but no longevity to be counted amongst the greats.

If we talk about batsmen than Voges retired with an average of 60 but not enough matches to be considered a legend.

Indians are just way too insecure about the rubbish fast bowling legacy. I mean I don’t blame them when their two greatest pacers before Bumrah were Zaheer and Srinath who won’t make the all time Pakistan B team, but that doesn’t justify being in a crazy rush to label Bumrah as the GOAT based on a small sample.

Come back when he gets to 350+ Test wickets and wins an ODI World Cup.

 

[RexRex]

Why do you guys troll?

Do you seriously view a player with 200 test wickets and 0 trophies inc competition with Mcgrath and Marshall?

Name one goat pace bowler who doesnt have a 10 fer? Or a 40+ avg against any team? That too in his own home den?

If No of wickets dont matter, Trophies dont matter etc etc, only avergae does then Scott Boland is the greatest pacer of all time.

Lets debate why Boland is > Bumrah using the rubbish metrics you lot have applied.

Their is zero coping, you guys can't keep utilising the Pakistani racism card forever. At some point it'll get old.

What's the Pakistani racism card that I used ?

I will rate Scott Boland as a legend if he performs consistently all over the world, particulary in India and other Asian wickets. Not to mention, he is a nobody in white ball cricket.

I wouldn't look too much into Bumrah's longevity in test cricket being a disqualifying factor, given that he has a heavy workload in two other formats as well .. at both of which he is an ATG. Mcgrath and Marshall didn't have to juggle three formats. You need to take all these things into account.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

The reality is that Bumrah is closer to a Ryan Harris or a Scott Boland than Wasim or Imran. Bowlers with excellent stats but no longevity to be counted amongst the greats.

If we talk about batsmen than Voges retired with an average of 60 but not enough matches to be considered a legend.

Indians are just way too insecure about the rubbish fast bowling legacy. I mean I don’t blame them when their two greatest pacers before Bumrah were Zaheer and Srinath who won’t make the all time Pakistan B team, but that doesn’t justify being in a crazy rush to label Bumrah as the GOAT based on a small sample.

Come back when he gets to 350+ Test wickets and wins an ODI World Cup.

Another gem, So basically you are saying that Michael Holding, Joel Garner and Andy roberts are Scott Boland level bowlers because they only took around 250 wickets

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

If he was to retire now would you say he is a tier one legend and ATG?

Imran got his trophy at 38 but the trophy Bumrah has weren't around in Imrans time so we cant compare on the basis of trophies.

If he retires now he will be on the same level as someone like Michael Holding.
Holding has 249 wkts at an average of 23.7 , Bumrah has 217 wkts at an average of 19.4.

He will still be an ATG but not comparable to McGrath,Marshall, Ambrose.

 

[RexRex]

Another gem, So basically you are saying that Michael Holding, Joel Garner and Andy roberts are Scott Boland level bowlers because they only took around 250 wickets

Mamoon has been digging himself into a lot of holes lately.

 

[mominsaigol]

What's the Pakistani racism card that I used ?

I will rate Scott Boland as a legend if he performs consistently all over the world, particulary in India and other Asian wickets. He is a nobody in white ball cricket.

I wouldn't look too much into Bumrah's longevity in test cricket being a disqualifying factor, given that he has a heavy workload in two other formats as well .. at both of which he is an ATG as well. You need to take all these things into account.

You know why I find this funny. Whenever I mention you need to take Head playing other formats into account, Every tom dick and Harry still treats him like hes a specialist test batter .

What a steaming Pile of Rubbish. Bumrah is next to Nobody in Odi. His record is good but not ATG material. Dozens of players have better records then him.

People cant even hide behind the whole Era's nonsense as Starc clearly proved it not to be case.

In today's era Odi averages have gone down the drain due to this 2 new ball and stupid Powerplay system. Tournament peformance is the pinnacle of succees in odi post 2012 excluding a few innings such as De villers fastest 100 etc etc.

Bumrah contributed to the 2 worst final performances I have ever witnessed, this too in an era where india rigs pitches to qualify to finals.

In t20 he is an ATG which I will not deny, infact possibly the 2nd greatest t20 bowler of all time alongside Umar Gul who was a freak of nature in t20 cricket.

In test cricket I don't care about his rubbish agenda sob stories that his fans portray. Mcgrath, Wasim etc etc all had harder workloads.

Their were more tests and odi's played in that era then their are now excluding leagues but no one is forcing Bumrah to play an IPL and hurt his body. Even so t20 is not a format where your workload diminishes.

Bumrah's work load is non existent as compared to the previous era bowlers I have mentioned. These lying agenda posts need to stop.

He is a player with a crap fitness, possibly the most unfit bowler I have ever seen excluding a few Asian bowlers I can think of.

Lastly Boland doesnt need to play Odi to be a better test pacer then Bumrah lol. What you consider > is meaningless.

Anyone can endlessly change goalposts. The point of bringing up boland is to illustrate how goal posts consistently change 24/7.

Bumrah isnt even close to Mcgrath and Marshall. Putting him in this list is bloody hilarious, in the same way putting Garner on this list is a joke as well.

However garner doesnt have indian hooligans spreading agendas 24/7.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Mamoon has been digging himself into a lot of holes lately.

He will now come up with some idiotic logic of how Holding never skipped a test mid series, without actually knowing that infact he did miss matches between series.

 

[mominsaigol]

Another gem, So basically you are saying that Michael Holding, Joel Garner and Andy roberts are Scott Boland level bowlers because they only took around 250 wickets

Yes, Scott Boland > Bumrah.

Had Boland played as many tests as these 3, he would be in their rank with Bumrah ranking below due to lack of impact.

In terms of records boland isnt up their, bit in terms of talent he is just as Good if not better then Garner.

 

[shaz619]

Is he going to play the next Test match?

 

[RexRex]

You know why I find this funny. Whenever I mention you need to take Head playing other formats into account, Every tom dick and Harry still treats him like hes a specialist test batter .

What a steaming Pile of Rubbish. Bumrah is next to Nobody in Odi. His record is good but not ATG material. Dozens of players have better records then him.

People cant even hide behind the whole Era's nonsense as Starc clearly proved it not to be case.

In today's era Odi averages have gone down the drain due to this 2 new ball and stupid Powerplay system. Tournament peformance is the pinnacle of succees in odi post 2012 excluding a few innings such as De villers fastest 100 etc etc.

Bumrah contributed to the 2 worst final performances I have ever witnessed, this too in an era where india rigs pitches to qualify to finals.

In t20 he is an ATG which I will not deny, infact possibly the 2nd greatest t20 bowler of all time alongside Umar Gul who was a freak of nature in t20 cricket.

In test cricket I don't care about his rubbish agenda sob stories that his fans portray. Mcgrath, Wasim etc etc all had harder workloads.

Their were more tests and odi's played in that era then their are now excluding leagues but no one is forcing Bumrah to play an IPL and hurt his body. Even so t20 is not a format where your workload diminishes.

Bumrah's work load is non existent as compared to the previous era bowlers I have mentioned. These lying agenda posts need to stop.

He is a player with a crap fitness, possibly the most unfit bowler I have ever seen excluding a few Asian bowlers I can think of.

Lastly Boland doesnt need to play Odi to be a better test pacer then Bumrah lol. What you consider > is meaningless.

Anyone can endlessly change goalposts. The point of bringing up boland is to illustrate how goal posts consistently change 24/7.

Bumrah isnt even close to Mcgrath and Marshall. Putting him in this list is bloody hilarious, in the same way putting Garner on this list is a joke as well.

However garner doesnt have indian hooligans spreading agendas 24/7.

Instead of vomiting out this dribble, you need to make a cohesive but concise argument as to why the top 3 bowlers deserve that title and what they have that other's don't. It seems like apart from longevity, you have no other argument.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Instead of vomiting out this dribble, you need to make a cohesive but concise argument as to why the top 3 bowlers deserve that title and what they have that other's don't. It seems like apart from longevity, you have no other argument.

He called Boland as talented as the big 3 of West Indies, I am embarrassed for him.

Don’t even know what to say

Btw Boland averages 132 away from home in the 3 tests he played against non minnows.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

If he retires now he will be on the same level as someone like Michael Holding.
Holding has 249 wkts at an average of 23.7 , Bumrah has 217 wkts at an average of 19.4.

He will still be an ATG but not comparable to McGrath,Marshall, Ambrose.

It's not a bad level top 30 region.

 

[mominsaigol]

Instead of vomiting out this dribble, you need to make a cohesive but concise argument as to why the top 3 bowlers deserve that title and what they have that other's don't. It seems like apart from longevity, you have no other argument.

I stated it once, I will not state it again. My job isnt to pamper children

 

[Rajdeep]

I still don’t understand how this thread is still ongoing. It’s turned into a troll fest, hijacked by "7th fail" spammers trying (and failing) to be funny, or by a few old uncles seemingly jealous of an Indian bowler’s success.

The question asked in the original post was: Was Bumrah’s decision to opt out of the 2nd Test against England justified?

I believe that question has already been answered decisively by the Indian team on the field by winning that very Test match. So, I genuinely don’t understand what we’re still debating here.


FAQs on Bumrah:
(for our Pak and buy 1 get 1 free sidekick BD fans)

1. Is Bumrah a great bowler?
That’s not even the topic of this thread, but the answer is a resounding yes. Only fools would think otherwise.

2. Is Bumrah an all-time great (ATG)?
Not yet. We’ll have to wait and see how his career pans out in the long run.

3. Is Bumrah better than all Pakistani bowlers in history?
Statistically, yes—as @Buffet has pointed out several times. However, if we look beyond numbers, he’s still behind Wasim Akram in terms of longevity and sustained excellence. Performing at the top for a few years is very different from dominating across decades. In that respect, Wasim is ahead—and we Indians have no shame in admitting that. Unfortunately, the same Pakistani (and their Bangladeshi sidekick) posters rarely acknowledge this longevity factor when it comes to players like Sachin Tendulkar.

4. Has Bumrah won anything special?
Absolutely. He was a key figure in two back-to-back Test series wins in Australia—arguably the toughest challenge in cricket. He also played a pivotal role in India’s T20 World Cup victory, single-handedly changing the game both in the group stage against Pakistan (defending a low total) and in the final when the match looked all but lost.

5. Has he won an ODI World Cup yet?
No, but his career isn't over. And let’s not forget—cricket is a team sport. If the batters don’t perform, there’s only so much one bowler can do. In the 2023 World Cup final in Ahmedabad, India managed only 240, while the average score throughout the tournament was around 320. What exactly was Bumrah expected to do under lights and dew? And by the way, Wasim Akram never won a World Cup match against India. Does that make him a poor bowler? Of course not.

6. Does Bumrah Chuck?
Not in real world but probably yes as per Lahori logic

7. Is Bumrah a good looking man or looks like an ape?
None of your business

#RajdeepSpeaksOn15thJuly

 

[mominsaigol]

He called Boland as talented as the big 3 of West Indies, I am embarrassed for him.

Don’t even know what to say

Btw Boland averages 132 away from home in the 3 tests he played against non minnows.

Boland avg 48 in England is as embrassing as Bumrah avg 45 vs NZ. Otherwise boland has outperformed Bumrah in every country and opposition in test cricket.

This is an undeniable fact. Its a shame he will never have the career due to lack of match count but he is just as good if not > Garner.

Boland is Mcgrath level accurate.

 

[RexRex]

I stated it once, I will not state it again. My job isnt to pamper children

I'll repeat again .. what do the top 3 bowlers have that others don't ? You don't have any set metrics.

 

[mominsaigol]

I'll repeat again .. what do the top 3 bowlers have that others don't ?

1) Longetivity
2) Impact
3) 10 fers
4) Consistency
5) Fitness
6) No 45 avg against any team
7) Historic wins or historic performance if including odi then odi wc wins, idc about CT, joke tournament.

Bonus (never got bullied an under 19 kid at the prime of their career)

Bumrah had 1(consistency), 7 failed metrics.

 

[shaz619]

Comparing this guy to the best from the 90’s is ridiculous, ya”ll need to be drug tested.

Compare him to bowlers from this century and he still doesn’t hold up anywhere close to the likes of Steyn.

However, is he up there with Murali? A resounding yes from me.

 

[Mamoon]

Another gem, So basically you are saying that Michael Holding, Joel Garner and Andy roberts are Scott Boland level bowlers because they only took around 250 wickets

Not sure why you are posting selfies.

What’s wrong with Scott Boland? He is at the same level as Bumrah but Bumrah got to play more matches.

Scott Boland is on par with someone like Broad but never got to play enough. His FC shows how great a bowler he is, definitely very unlucky.

 

[RexRex]

1) Longetivity
2) Impact
3) 10 fers
4) Consistency
5) Fitness
6) No 45 avg against any team
7) Historic wins or historic performance if including odi then odi wc wins, idc about CT, joke tournament.

Bonus (never got bullied an under 19 kid at the prime of their career)

Bumrah had 1(consistency), 7 failed metrics.

1) longevity - 200 wickets is enough longevity. Joel Garner is considered a legend and he has about the same.
2) Impact - you only need to see how the aussies and english swoon over him, since you don't trust indian opinions
3) 10 fers - Nice if he had one but arbitrary threshold that means nothing.
4) Consistency - he is very consistent. Averages a ridiculous 19.5
5) Fitness - he has been fit enough to get 200 wkts and will take many more
6) 45 for one team - Irrelevan, Warne averaging 45 against India hasn't stopped his repuation as spin GOAT
7) Historic wins - like the Aus tour 2018 - first ever Indian team to win in Aus.

Unfortunately I've come to the conclusion that what motivates many pakistani responses on here is envy.

Bumrah be like : 'They hate me coz they ain't me.

 

[mominsaigol]

1) longevity - 200 wickets is enough longevity. Joel Garner is considered a legend and he has about the same.
2) Impact - you only need to see how the aussies and english swoon over him, since you don't trust indian opinions
3) 10 fers - Nice if he had one but arbitrary threshold that means nothing.
4) Consistency - he is very consistent. Averages a ridiculous 19.5
5) Fitness - he has been fit enough to get 200 wkts and will take many more
6) 45 for one team - Irrelevan, Warne averaging 45 against India hasn't stopped his repuation as spin GOAT
7) Historic wins - like the Aus tour 2018 - first ever Indian team to win in Aus.

Unfortunately I've come to the conclusion that what motivates many pakistani responses on here is envy.

Bumrah be like : 'They hate me coz they ain't me.

Lol you asked me for my metrics and your response is utilising words such as Arbitrary in order to sound smarter

I mentioned pace bowlers and man brought up Shane warne

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Comparing this guy to the best from the 90’s is ridiculous, ya”ll need to be drug tested.

Compare him to bowlers from this century and he still doesn’t hold up anywhere close to the likes of Steyn.

However, is he up there with Murali? A resounding yes from me.

Murali be like

 

[mominsaigol]

Open challenge to @jeeteshssaxena @RexRex and any Indian poster.

Get in the ring with me.

Scott Boland vs Jasprit Bumrah. Stats battle. Longetivity is a metric thrown away by indians so I shall throw it away too.

 

[James]

There’s also the issue of other Indian bowlers having to exist in Bumrah’s shadow when he plays. I think he could possibly be quite an intimidating presence in the dressing room and that he is a bit of an egotist. Akash Deep took a 10fer in Birmingham and looked world class, then at Lords 3 days later with the GOAT’s return he was straight back to bowling like an absolute wasteman with 1-120, and for good measure then got thrown under the bus into a woeful cameo as nightwatchman.

 

[RexRex]

Open challenge to @jeeteshssaxena @RexRex and any Indian poster.

Get in the ring with me.

Scott Boland vs Jasprit Bumrah. Stats battle. Longetivity is a metric thrown away by indians so I shall throw it away too.

I'm not interested.

Let Scott Boland travel the world and play in all the major countries. Then we can discuss his exploits.

 

[frenchcut]

Since winning at Perth in November, Bumrah has taken 36 wickets in 6 Tests.

India have lost 5 of these Tests and the one draw was due to rain, otherwise India were destined to lose that Test too.

He has taken useless stat-padding to a whole new level.

stat padding by watching his hapless colleagues fail to chase 190?

ok elon

 

[frenchcut]

There’s also the issue of other Indian bowlers having to exist in Bumrah’s shadow when he plays. I think he could possibly be quite an intimidating presence in the dressing room and that he is a bit of an egotist. Akash Deep took a 10fer in Birmingham and looked world class, then at Lords 3 days later with the GOAT’s return he was straight back to bowling like an absolute wasteman with 1-120, and for good measure then got thrown under the bus into a woeful cameo as nightwatchman.

a lot of conjecture there but ok

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

stat padding by watching his hapless colleagues fail to chase 190?

ok elon

Wow. What an uppercut by you.

 

[G0rmintAunty]

What is that ?

OG ATG Dhalsim from Streetfighter.

 

[G0rmintAunty]

There’s also the issue of other Indian bowlers having to exist in Bumrah’s shadow when he plays. I think he could possibly be quite an intimidating presence in the dressing room and that he is a bit of an egotist. Akash Deep took a 10fer in Birmingham and looked world class, then at Lords 3 days later with the GOAT’s return he was straight back to bowling like an absolute wasteman with 1-120, and for good measure then got thrown under the bus into a woeful cameo as nightwatchman.

Its funny you mention thus as I was wondering the same the other day.

Agree with the shadow part, it seems like when Bumrah plays, I feel the other bowlers kind of stop trying that hard because they think he will as usual take most of the top order wickets.

The 2nd Test match he didn't play in, the others showed up and in the Aus tour of 21 (I think) when he was out but the likes of Nataranjan, Thakur etc put their hands up.

 

[Wasim Ghulam]

Absolutely. He was a key figure in two back-to-back Test series wins in Australia—arguably the toughest challenge in cricket. He also played a pivotal role in India’s T20 World Cup victory, single-handedly changing the game both in the group stage against Pakistan (defending a low total) and in the final when the match looked all but lost.

Bumrah was nt key figure in winning BGT 2020. He did nt even play Brisbane test.

No Bumrah did nt win t20 wc Single handedly. India lost 4 wickets for 32 runs. it was Kohli who saved the batting and afterwards Pandya took out Klaasen . Bumrah just capitalised. if i were to give you example of a player single handedly winning a tournament for its team.. Shahid Afridi in 2009 would be perfect example of that.Defending 120 at NY pitch against weak side like Pak of 2024 is nt even worth mentioning

 

[mominsaigol]

I'm not interested.

Let Scott Boland travel the world and play in all the major countries. Then we can discuss his exploits.

Thanks for your concession. Only strong willed people can take me on

 

[BouncerGuy]

I think this time, India should excuse Bumrah and rest him again so they can try and level the series.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

It's not a bad level top 30 region.

Its top 15 , I don’t think there are 29 better pace bowler than Holding.

 

[mominsaigol]

Its top 15 , I don’t think there are 29 better pace bowler than Holding.

Yes their are. Holding and Garner are nothing special in the long run of things

Walsh, Ambrose, Marshall are the real deal.

Garner and Holding do not deserve the top 15 rank

 

[Rafale Nidhal]

Proof that Bumrah is a stat-padded first before a team player.

Most wickets by fast bowlers in Tests in losing cause in last 5 years

60 Jasprit Bumrah
49 Jayden Seales
48 Alzarri Joseph
41 Blessing Muzarabani
39 Kemar Roach

King among minnow bowlers

 

[Ab Fan]

Yes their are. Holding and Garner are nothing special in the long run of things

Walsh, Ambrose, Marshall are the real deal.

Garner and Holding do not deserve the top 15 rank

Anyone who has watched them bowl will rate Garner and Holding both above Walsh.

 

[Mamoon]

stat padding by watching his hapless colleagues fail to chase 190?

ok elon

Nah, by acting that he is fatigued and carrying an injury on the 5th day of the Leeds Test where he failed to defend a 370+ target and took 0 wickets in the fourth innings.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Yes their are. Holding and Garner are nothing special in the long run of things

Walsh, Ambrose, Marshall are the real deal.

Garner and Holding do not deserve the top 15 rank

Ambrose and Marshall are better but thats it

Holding and Garner are number 3 and 4 amaongst west indies pacers which means they are definitely amongst top 15

The pacers ahead of them are

Ambrose
Marshall

Mcgrath
Lillee

Steyn
Donald
Rabada

Hadlee

Imran
Akram
Dont think Waqar is ahead but you can count him too

So they are definitely top 15

 

[mominsaigol]

Ambrose and Marshall are better but thats it

Holding and Garner are number 3 and 4 amaongst west indies pacers which means they are definitely amongst top 15

The pacers ahead of them are

Ambrose
Marshall

Mcgrath
Lillee

Steyn
Donald
Rabada

Hadlee

Imran
Akram
Dont think Waqar is ahead but you can count him too

So they are definitely top 15

AlrightE. I agree.

 

[RidiculousMan]

King among minnow bowlers

I like your name

 

[Romali_rotti]

JB is a modern day great, is he goat, no..

If he retires with 290-300 wickets at 18-19 avg then he can be in the goat category..

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

We need to pause with GOAT tag and all, no pacer in this era can be called that right now.

Let Bumrah pick 300 wickets at less than 22-21 and then he will have a proper claim to that status.

 

[Ab Fan]

Every Indian poster here accepts that he is not in the category of GOAT or comparable to Marshall or McGrath so I don’t understand why Pakistani fans on this forum are so thin skinned that they get triggered via posts made by 1-2 trolls over here. Instead of degrading the quality of forum, we should cherish the fast bowler that Bumrah is. His performance vs top teams is a testament to this.

 

[Rafale Nidhal]

 

[frenchcut]

Nah, by acting that he is fatigued and carrying an injury on the 5th day of the Leeds Test where he failed to defend a 370+ target and took 0 wickets in the fourth innings.

even more impressive he averages 19 then

 

[Technics 1210]

As no Tendulkar test century is in the all time Wisden list, Bumrah remains a foot note too. Just because 1.4 Billion say so, doesn't mean so. (Sorry state of Indian cricket/nation of late).

Bumrah has bowled more no-balls than 2 Ws, one costing a trophy, and is a pansy product of the IPL. His attention span lasts about 4 overs and a round of IPL cheerleading, he is the TikTok of bowling.

Bumrah is proof that the IPL is destroying Indian Test Cricket. I say go for it, but stop calling this suspect action bowler a GOAT, because Bumrah is a GOAT in Indian adverts only - at best.

Mutton dressed as lamb.

 

[RamLakhan]

Its funny you mention thus as I was wondering the same the other day.

Agree with the shadow part, it seems like when Bumrah plays, I feel the other bowlers kind of stop trying that hard because they think he will as usual take most of the top order wickets.

The 2nd Test match he didn't play in, the others showed up and in the Aus tour of 21 (I think) when he was out but the likes of Nataranjan, Thakur etc put their hands up.

I think the opposition batsmen tend to relax when Bumrah is not there and underestimate the other bowlers... So the real verdict on this will be seen in the upcoming test... If again Indian Bowlers do well in his absence (regardless of whether team wins or not - because that's dependent on batsmen, fielders & also toss) then we can say Bumrah is doing harm to the team (a bit like Tendulkar in the past!)

But what if England this time go rampage on Indian Bowling in Bumrah's absence? Because this is only the 1st time where he is rested in a test match (in between a test series), so what if England come up with a different plan in the coming test...

Bumrah was not this critically important when we won in Australia... Also for Champions trophy his presence was irrelevant in UAE...

So we will find out now!

 

[RamLakhan]

Looks like Bumrah has a limitation (in Tests). But I still think that if he is rotated properly (like he himself did in the 1st Test match against Australia which we won!) he can be more effective (in fact the whole bowling unit). That 1st test match was a perfect demonstration of great team effort in an overseas test! (that too which was supposed to be an hostile pitch for India - Perth!) Especially the 1st innings...

I think Bumrah, captain, coach & think-tank should analzye that match and see how bowlers can be handled effectively... Also batsmen should not act like stupids chasing milestones (for god-sake in test cricket)... Test matches are won by whole team performance! Marshall, Ambrose, Mc.Grath, Styen etc didn't play in teams which had clown batsmen (they had ATG batsmen as well who batted responsibly & aggressively, that's why these bowlers could achieve what they did! Also they played under great captains! The whole team itself was ATG, not just them... Probably that's the reason why Wasim & Waqar underachieved - because they had relatively inferior batsmen in their team & defensive/less-thinking captains!)

Bumrah can do his job well if the whole team jells properly... It is problem of other bowlers if they are not contributing enough when Bumrah is in the team! Probably they are complaisant... If captain is not thinking properly & if team is not focussing properly, then yes its a burden on his body (to just keep bowling hard without results particularly on these flat pitches! Yes he has physical limitations, we agree...)

Bumrah at the end of his career can become like Lara... (WI who bothered only about his milestones!) Great with stats/stat-padding, but less contribution to team victories, selfish-like figures, etc. And end up inferior to other ATGs (just like Lara was inferior to Sachin, Ponting, etc) So team & captain are also important...

 

[RamLakhan]

Also I have faint memories of WI doing well in matches where Lara was injured/not playing during those times! So its kind of team psychology, who push hard in the absence of a strong figure!

 

[Mamoon]

even more impressive he averages 19 then

Yup, that is why his useless stat-padding should be praised. Few have mastered the art of not turning up when it matters, contributing to losses and still ending up with great numbers like he has.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Yup, that is why his useless stat-padding should be praised. Few have mastered the art of not turning up when it matters, contributing to losses and still ending up with great numbers like he has.

Better numbers in SENA wins than Akram,Khan and Younis.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Better numbers in SENA wins than Akram,Khan and Younis.

You really think today's SENA teams are stronger than the ones from Wasim Akram's era? Be serious. Back then, even teams like West Indies, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, and Zimbabwe had world-class talent.

You are out here comparing wicket-taking in today's soft, batter-friendly era where half the top orders look like net bowlers with the time when Wasim was dismantling batters for fun. If this is truly the 'toughest era for bowlers', then I guess Joe Root should be hailed as the GOAT too, right?

Let's be honest you probably didn't even watch cricket in the 90s. Wasim wasn't just another fast bowler, he was a force of nature. That's why he is still in most all-time XI. We admired him even as rivals. But newbies like you are so blinded by bias, you would rather downplay greatness than give credit where it's due. Hating Pakistan is one thing, but mocking a legend like Wasim just exposes your ignorance.

 

[Ab Fan]

You really think today's SENA teams are stronger than the ones from Wasim Akram's era? Be serious. Back then, even teams like West Indies, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, and Zimbabwe had world-class talent.

You are out here comparing wicket-taking in today's soft, batter-friendly era where half the top orders look like net bowlers with the time when Wasim was dismantling batters for fun. If this is truly the 'toughest era for bowlers', then I guess Joe Root should be hailed as the GOAT too, right?

Let's be honest you probably didn't even watch cricket in the 90s. Wasim wasn't just another fast bowler, he was a force of nature. That's why he is still in most all-time XI. We admired him even as rivals. But newbies like you are so blinded by bias, you would rather downplay greatness than give credit where it's due. Hating Pakistan is one thing, but mocking a legend like Wasim just exposes your ignorance.

Many do consider Steve Smith as GOAT. Root averages less than Tendulkar,Lara, Ponting, Kallis, Dravid and Sanga and yet to score even a single ton in Australia so he can’t be considered GOAT. There is nothing wrong with the current era, any player can only perform in the era they played.

 

[mominsaigol]

Many do consider Steve Smith as GOAT. Root averages less than Tendulkar,Lara, Ponting, Kallis, Dravid and Sanga and yet to score even a single ton in Australia so he can’t be considered GOAT. There is nothing wrong with the current era, any player can only perform in the era they played.

Lol, that is hogwash.

The reason root avg 50.80 is because pre 2020 he was genuinely an avg test batter. He was avg 46-47 and had a terrible conversion rate.

Root after 2020 had a resurgence. He has been avg 55 for 5 years, has scored 20 centuries in record time more then any other batter despite india and Australian players playing an almost equivalent number of test games.

He averages 50 in every country excluding dustbowls and Australia. Bangladesh was a dustbowl because those cowards aren't capable of having the guts to prepare good wickets which is why Australia stopped touring them after those rubbish 2 series.

India and Pakistan dont count either. Everyone knows what Pakistan did after that 800 bashing similarly India is another fraud nation for Home tests.

The only difference is that India doesnt get criticism because unlike Pakistan and Bangladesh they were dominant in overseas tests before Ghambir showed up so you cant claim they are cowards unlike PK amd Bangladesh.

Still he avg 45 and 47 on said dustbowls. 24 in Bangladesh but he's only played 2 games their.

His overseas record is far > Tendulkar post 2020 and the logic of bowlers doesnt make any sense as I already proved that tenda was useless against top bowlers excluding 35 year old Dead pitch Ambrose and Shane Warne.

Tendulkar is Ahead due to Australia where root has been extremely poor avg 35. Their is no excuse for that.

But Root from 2020 onwards is no less then Sachin, Lara, Smith(current), kallis etc etc.

Only prime smith is head and shoulders > him.

Root is plagued by a career pre 2020 thats the issue. In a way he is the opposite of Virat Kohli who unlike root started at 55 and dropped to 46 while root started at 46 and is avg 55 for 5 years now.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Lol, that is hogwash.

The reason root avg 50.80 is because pre 2020 he was genuinely an avg test batter. He was avg 46-47 and had a terrible conversion rate.

Root after 2020 had a resurgence. He has been avg 55 for 5 years, has scored 20 centuries in record time more then any other batter despite india and Australian players playing an almost equivalent number of test games.

He averages 50 in every country excluding dustbowls and Australia. Bangladesh was a dustbowl because those cowards aren't capable of having the guts to prepare good wickets which is why Australia stopped touring them after those rubbish 2 series.

India and Pakistan dont count either. Everyone knows what Pakistan did after that 800 bashing similarly India is another fraud nation for Home tests.

The only difference is that India doesnt get criticism because unlike Pakistan and Bangladesh they were dominant in overseas tests before Ghambir showed up so you cant claim they are cowards unlike PK amd Bangladesh.

Still he avg 45 and 47 on said dustbowls. 24 in Bangladesh but he's only played 2 games their.

His overseas record is far > Tendulkar post 2020 and the logic of bowlers doesnt make any sense as I already proved that tenda was useless against top bowlers excluding 35 year old Dead pitch Ambrose and Shane Warne.

Tendulkar is Ahead due to Australia where root has been extremely poor avg 35. Their is no excuse for that.

But Root from 2020 onwards is no less then Sachin, Lara, Smith(current), kallis etc etc.

Only prime smith is head and shoulders > him.

Root is plagued by a career pre 2020 thats the issue. In a way he is the opposite of Virat Kohli who unlike root started at 55 and dropped to 46 while root started at 46 and is avg 55 for 5 years now.

Joe Root has a very ordinary peak, he averages 56 across 48 tests, this is his average in peak form.

Let alone Smith, even Tendulkar, Ponting and even Kohli had a better peak than him.

There is a reason that even after him being at his best he still averages hardly above 50. Its 50.8

At their peak Tendulkar reached an avg of 59, Kohli reached 55.6, Ponting again was around 60, Dravid also averaged around 60, Smith averaged close to 66.

If we count the peak duration of the above players their average will be above 65 for those years.

That is why I have Root lower than all of Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Sanga and tbh even below Kallis and Dravid.

 

[mominsaigol]

Joe Root has a very ordinary peak, he averages 56 across 48 tests, this is his average in peak form.

Let alone Smith, even Tendulkar, Ponting and even Kohli had a better peak than him.

There is a reason that even after him being at his best he still averages hardly above 50. Its 50.8

At their peak Tendulkar reached an avg of 59, Kohli reached 55.6, Ponting again was around 60, Dravid also averaged around 60, Smith averaged close to 66.

If we count the peak duration of the above players their average will be above 65 for those years.

That is why I have Root lower than all of Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Sanga and tbh even below Kallis and Dravid.

You can rate them however you like but the fact remains that no one looks at peak periods when a player retires.

No one minus Kohli fan boys view Kohli as a great test cricketer. He is still very good obviously and still better then the 70% as a 46 avg + 30 centuries + 9K runs is still a very very very good record.

But no one minus his fans use the 55 peak as an excuse.

The same goes for Steve Smith fans. I am a huge fan of smith. He is one of my if not my most favourite test player of all time but his form slump has given the Sachin vs Steve Smith debate more merit whereas if we had this debate 6 years ago, id have called you a delusional Sachin Fan boy but now not so much due to said form slump.

Root atm avg 50.8 and has a bad record in Aus. For that reason he is obviously not > the players you mentioned excluding Maybe Sanga who i view to be a better version of Kane Williamson. But if you view Sanga > i won't blame you.

However their avg, Country performance, and a few others metrics such as conversion rate, No of centuries based of no games, And no of runs scored + batting position is what'll determine where they end up.

But yes you are right, Root atm doesnt compare, so I will respectfully agree with you.

 

[Ab Fan]

Lol, that is hogwash.

The reason root avg 50.80 is because pre 2020 he was genuinely an avg test batter. He was avg 46-47 and had a terrible conversion rate.

Root after 2020 had a resurgence. He has been avg 55 for 5 years, has scored 20 centuries in record time more then any other batter despite india and Australian players playing an almost equivalent number of test games.

He averages 50 in every country excluding dustbowls and Australia. Bangladesh was a dustbowl because those cowards aren't capable of having the guts to prepare good wickets which is why Australia stopped touring them after those rubbish 2 series.

India and Pakistan dont count either. Everyone knows what Pakistan did after that 800 bashing similarly India is another fraud nation for Home tests.

The only difference is that India doesnt get criticism because unlike Pakistan and Bangladesh they were dominant in overseas tests before Ghambir showed up so you cant claim they are cowards unlike PK amd Bangladesh.

Still he avg 45 and 47 on said dustbowls. 24 in Bangladesh but he's only played 2 games their.

His overseas record is far > Tendulkar post 2020 and the logic of bowlers doesnt make any sense as I already proved that tenda was useless against top bowlers excluding 35 year old Dead pitch Ambrose and Shane Warne.

Tendulkar is Ahead due to Australia where root has been extremely poor avg 35. Their is no excuse for that.

But Root from 2020 onwards is no less then Sachin, Lara, Smith(current), kallis etc etc.

Only prime smith is head and shoulders > him.

Root is plagued by a career pre 2020 thats the issue. In a way he is the opposite of Virat Kohli who unlike root started at 55 and dropped to 46 while root started at 46 and is avg 55 for 5 years now.

No need to write long post when you accept that Root isn’t a GOAT. My post was in reply to that.

 

[mominsaigol]

No need to write long post when you accept that Root isn’t a GOAT. My post was in reply to that.

I accept that he is a goat. He is England's greatest player of all time.

Goat is subjective, if you wish to be extreme, then Goat means greatest of all time.

You cant have multiple greatest of all time. Hence kindly remove Lara, Sachin, Steve Smith and everyone from your list except Bradman.

And Root will surpass Sachin. Eventually his Avg will rise > Ponting's and he'll surpass Ponting.

Soon he'll surpass Lara once it rises to 52 and finally Sachin once it rises to 53 and he gets that 40 Avg in Aus.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

You can rate them however you like but the fact remains that no one looks at peak periods when a player retires.

No one minus Kohli fan boys view Kohli as a great test cricketer. He is still very good obviously and still better then the 70% as a 46 avg + 30 centuries + 9K runs is still a very very very good record.

But no one minus his fans use the 55 peak as an excuse.

The same goes for Steve Smith fans. I am a huge fan of smith. He is one of my if not my most favourite test player of all time but his form slump has given the Sachin vs Steve Smith debate more merit whereas if we had this debate 6 years ago, id have called you a delusional Sachin Fan boy but now not so much due to said form slump.

Root atm avg 50.8 and has a bad record in Aus. For that reason he is obviously not > the players you mentioned excluding Maybe Sanga who i view to be a better version of Kane Williamson. But if you view Sanga > i won't blame you.

However their avg, Country performance, and a few others metrics such as conversion rate, No of centuries based of no games, And no of runs scored + batting position is what'll determine where they end up.

But yes you are right, Root atm doesnt compare, so I will respectfully agree with you.

I am not calling Kohli a great player here, he isn’t in tests.

People do look at peak record for sure, that’s one of the most important factor to evaluate a player, also the reason why people think of Smith as one of the Goats.

Roots peak averages is very low and not comparable to most atg batsman, he averages just a shade above 50 and that’s why I think if he playes for 3-4 more years the average can take a hit as he gets old.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

I accept that he is a goat. He is England's greatest player of all time.

Goat is subjective, if you wish to be extreme, then Goat means greatest of all time.

You cant have multiple greatest of all time. Hence kindly remove Lara, Sachin, Steve Smith and everyone from your list except Bradman.

And Root will surpass Sachin. Eventually his Avg will rise > Ponting's and he'll surpass Ponting.

Soon he'll surpass Lara once it rises to 52 and finally Sachin once it rises to 53 and he gets that 40 Avg in Aus.

But is there a reason to think his average will cross Ponting and Lara or is it just conjecture?

He averages 56 in his peak years, are you sure he will be able to get to 52 plus in the next 3 years.

 

[mominsaigol]

I am not calling Kohli a great player here, he isn’t in tests.

People do look at peak record for sure, that’s one of the most important factor to evaluate a player, also the reason why people think of Smith as one of the Goats.

Roots peak averages is very low and not comparable to most atg batsman, he averages just a shade above 50 and that’s why I think if he playes for 3-4 more years the average can take a hit as he gets old.

We will see. But all that matters is the final record at the end of a person's career.

 

[Rafale Nidhal]

this player plays every single game for his country be it Tests or ODIs

never seen his team management discuss about his workload and rest him after just 1 Test lmao

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

this player plays every single game for his country be it Tests or ODIs

never seen his team management discuss about his workload and rest him after just 1 Test lmao

View attachment 156181

Wonder why he has played less Odis and t20s than Jasprit Bumrah despite starting late in his career.

Cummins skips a lot of Odis and t20s. He even skipped the test series vs Srl.

 

[Vikram1989]

Wonder why he has played less Odis and t20s than Jasprit Bumrah despite starting late in his career.

Cummins skips a lot of Odis and t20s. He even skipped the test series vs Srl.

He famously skipped odi matches against pak to attend cold play concert .

Why this photo of Pat Cummins should make Aussie cricket fans angry

The men in green and gold lost the deciding game in the one-day international series against Pakistan at Perth's Optus Stadium on Sunday - and the result was made even worse by Cummins' Instagram post.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Ab Fan]

Workload management may have become more prevalent in today’s time but some players were occasionally taking rest back in 80s and 90s too.

Michael Holding had several injury issues so he was often rotated alongwith other great bowlers than WI had and hence he played only 60 tests in 12 years of his career and didn’t played many ODIs either.

Curtly Ambrose skipped some test matches in Asia as he claimed that the weather and food in Asia didn’t suited him.

 

[Devadwal]

GOAT Bumrah is already exposed the wannabe fans by picking 2 Five fer in two match .

Most fifer in Away test by current generation Pacers

Jasprit Bumrah - 13
Kagiso rabada - 7
Starc - 7
Hazelwood - 6
Cummins - 5

No one is close To GOAT BUMRAH .

 

[Ice Man]

He famously skipped odi matches against pak to attend cold play concert .

Why this photo of Pat Cummins should make Aussie cricket fans angry

The men in green and gold lost the deciding game in the one-day international series against Pakistan at Perth's Optus Stadium on Sunday - and the result was made even worse by Cummins' Instagram post.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Tbf, he was only rested (along with other players) for the third ODI in Perth, mate. He played the first two ODIs.

 

[Ice Man]

GOAT Bumrah is already exposed the wannabe fans by picking 2 Five fer in two match .

Most fifer in Away test by current generation Pacers

Jasprit Bumrah - 13
Kagiso rabada - 7
Starc - 7
Hazelwood - 6
Cummins - 5

No one is close To GOAT BUMRAH .

Hold on, mate. First you put out that stat for the current generation pacers and then you proceed to say no one is close to 'GOAT Bumrah'.

How can he be the 'GOAT' based on that stat, when he is currently tied with Imran Khan (13) for that particular stat and behind Hadlee (21), McGrath (18), Wasim (17), Barnes (15), Marshall (14) and Walsh (14)?

 

[Devadwal]

Hold on, mate. First you put out that stat for the current generation pacers and then you proceed to say no one is close to 'GOAT Bumrah'.

How can he be the 'GOAT' based on that stat, when he is currently tied with Imran Khan (13) for that particular stat and behind Hadlee (21), McGrath (18), Wasim (17), Barnes (15), Marshall (14) and Walsh (14)?

Because some idiots recently compared Bumrah with starc ,rabada etc etc . I exposed them with fact

 

[mominsaigol]

Hold on, mate. First you put out that stat for the current generation pacers and then you proceed to say no one is close to 'GOAT Bumrah'.

How can he be the 'GOAT' based on that stat, when he is currently tied with Imran Khan (13) for that particular stat and behind Hadlee (21), McGrath (18), Wasim (17), Barnes (15), Marshall (14) and Walsh (14)?

Anyway @Devadwal will change the goalpost. Rather then addressing GOAT status he'll say something like "X stated this so I exposed that" rather then answering you directly.

Never mind I read his above comment and thats exactly what he did .

 

[Vikram1989]

Tbf, he was only rested (along with other players) for the third ODI in Perth, mate. He played the first two ODIs.

In general, Aussies are not interested in limited formats(wcs are exclusion). U don't see much Aussie attendance in Australia for limited formats. Only sub continent audience will fill it out. Uk and Aus business models are built on test series.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Anyway @Devadwal will change the goalpost. Rather then addressing GOAT status he'll say something like "X stated this so I exposed that" rather then answering you directly.

Never mind I read his above comment and thats exactly what he did .

If you are chasing GOAT status, 'Legend' tags, and Sigma titles, just come to India. There are enough fanboys here handing them out for free. Even random social media influencers get crowned with those labels overnight.

 

[BouncerGuy]

BCCI is thinking about Bumrah's workload once again, or not, because India lost another game with Bumrah..

Might as well make an excuse again and let him... better on the bench if the team wins.