The Russian invasion of Ukraine

[MenInG]

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[James]

<b>US, Russia defence chiefs discuss Ukraine war in rare phone call</b>

<I>Few details have emerged of Friday’s conversation, but both sides confirmed discussing the Ukraine war in the conversation.</I>

United States defence secretary Lloyd Austin has held a rare telephone call with his Russian counterpart Sergei Shoigu, with the Ukraine war featuring in the talks, according to the defence ministry from both countries.

The Pentagon on Friday declined to offer specifics beyond saying that Austin, who initiated the conversation, emphasised a need for lines of communication amid the war in Ukraine.

“Topical issues of international security – including the situation in Ukraine – were discussed,” said Russia’s defence ministry.

Few details emerged of Friday’s conversation – only the second call between the ministers since Moscow invaded Ukraine on February 24. Back in May, Austin had urged Moscow to implement an “immediate ceasefire”.

The call comes as pro-Kremlin officials in Ukraine’s east said they were turning the country’s southern city of Kherson into a “fortress” as Kyiv’s forces advance. Ukraine said on Friday it had retaken a total of 88 towns and villages in the region since launching its offensive to retake Kherson in September.

Kyiv’s forces in recent weeks – aided by Western weapons – have been advancing along the west bank of the Dnieper river towards the region’s main city Kherson.

Ukraine’s push in the south comes after a sweeping counteroffensive in the northeast Kharkiv region that has badly impaired Russia’s supply routes and logistics corridors in the eastern Donbas region.

Meanwhile, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Washington had seen no evidence that Russia is interested in ending its aggression towards Ukraine, and instead was “doubling and tripling down”. However, Austin said the US would stay in contact with Russia.

“We have seen no evidence of that at this moment. On the contrary, we see Russia doubling and tripling down on its aggression,” Blinken told a joint news conference with French foreign minister Catherine Colonna.

Blinken pointed to Russia’s recent attacks on power stations and other civilian infrastructure in Ukraine and the mobilisation of troops who Blinken called “horrifically, cannon fodder that Putin is trying to throw into the war”.

“The fundamental difference is that Ukrainians are fighting for their country, their land, their future. Russia is not and the sooner President Putin understands that and comes to that conclusion, the sooner we will be able to end this war,” Blinken said.

Meanwhile, Ukraine’s energy minister said that Russian air attacks have hit at least half of Ukraine’s thermal generation capacity, causing billions of dollars of damage since October 10, though not all those power units have stopped working completely.

German Galushchenko told the Reuters news agency that Ukraine may need electricity imports to get through the winter after attacks that had struck 30-40 percent of power infrastructure and traders were already holding negotiations with suppliers.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Friday urged the West to warn Russia not to blow up a dam in southern Ukraine that would cause severe flooding.

Russia has accused Ukraine of rocketing the dam and planning to destroy it in what Kyiv officials called a sign Russia might blow it up and blame Ukraine.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022...chiefs-talk-to-clear-misunderstandings-moscow

 

[mazkhan]

Massive attacks on ukranian energy infrastructure.

36 missiles , ukraine claims to have shot most of them down.

Iris t missile costs 430000 dollars a piece

And the American amraam costs 1.2 million dollars a piece. Just one battery cost 23 million dollars

So how long does zelensky think usa nato will be bankrolling this considering the drones russia is using barely cost 20000 dollars.

 

[bones]

Key talk right now is about "dirty bombs". Seems like further escalations are coming.

 

[Junaids]

In general, Russia’s public statements betray their intentions.

Talk of a dirty bomb is a perfect example.

Ukraine has adhered almost completely to Biden’s prohibition on attacking targets in Russia. Ukraine has the missiles to have wiped out the electricity grids in Belgorod, Krasnodar and Rostov-on-Don, but they don’t because they know that the supply of weapons from the USA would dry up.

To be honest, I would not have maintained my discipline enough to avoid hitting targets in Russia like Ukraine has.

So talk by Russia of Ukraine using a dirty bomb is transparent nonsense intended to either cover up Russian use of WMD or to try to stop NATO nations from supplying Ukraine. There is literally no reason why the side which is winning on the battlefield would do this.

 

[Junaids]

Some sad snippets from a BBC article following the Ukrainian Army into a newly liberated village outside Kherson….

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63365211

Excerpts:
“Those Russians said they were liberators, they just started robbing us!" says a tearful Fedir. He says they took his car, furniture and mattresses. Nearly every house on his street has been damaged.

Despite having been forced out, you also learn a lot about the Russian occupiers just by looking around.

In one school which they used as a base, their supplies, ammunition, and rubbish are scattered in all directions. These are not the traces of a disciplined force. It's evidence they'd been fighting in squalor and left in a hurry.

Alyona says when she first met a Russian soldier, he asked her "who allowed you to live so well?" Her family's wooden house was left nearly empty after the Russians took everything away.

 

[PakLFC]

Putin's not pulling back anytime soon. It is Europe that will be the biggest loser thinking Russia would be afraid of Europe and America. Now with the energy crises it could turn in to a complete nightmare for Europe right when days are gonna get much colder. Again instead of staying out of the Russia-Ukraine conflict the UK as always had to polish America's boots by doing right by them. Not saying Putin was wrong or right however it's rich seeing the UK and America condemning Russia for invading Ukraine when they have been doing exactly the same.

 

[Junaids]

it's rich seeing the UK and America condemning Russia for invading Ukraine when they have been doing exactly the same.

Have they?

Ukraine is a democracy in which the current government is a centre-left liberal administration elected on twin platforms of taking on corruption and protecting the rights of Russian speakers.

The bogus pretexts for invasion are their imaginary far right policies and anti- Russian policy.

You presumably are referring to the wars In Afghanistan and Iraq, against illegitimate unelected regimes which protected and exported terrorists.

Those wars were fought by a Republican US government - which is not in power now - and a Labour UK government, which also is not in power.

There is no equivalence. None.

 

[sweep_shot]

You presumably are referring to the wars In Afghanistan and Iraq, against illegitimate unelected regimes which protected and exported terrorists.

Illegitimate?

So, if someone is not elected through a system like western democracy, he is illegitimate?

Which terrorists did Saddam "protect and export"?

 

[Junaids]

Russia’s Kherson strategy seems to be becoming clearer.

Professional Russian soldiers are being evacuated from the right-bank to the left bank of the Dniepr River, where they are shedding their uniforms and being evacuated as civilians.

Meanwhile the newly mobilised untrained troops are being sent to the right-bank to be killed or taken as prisoners of war.

The Russians are clearly trying to retain their best soldiers but yet again are abandoning their weapons and supplies.

 

[Junaids]

In the 1982 Falklands War, the UK knew that if the two aircraft carriers were lost, the country could still not use nuclear weapons against Argentina because it crossed a red line.

The Crimean Bridge is basically useless now, and the Russians have realised that they are going to lose everything - even Crimea and Donbas.

The “ Ukrainian Dirty Bomb” fairytale is obviously a case of Russia considering using WND in a false flag operation, as a pretext for using nuclear weapons against Ukraine.

Nobody is going to fall for that. It’s a shortcut to Russian national suicide.

 

[sweep_shot]

The “ Ukrainian Dirty Bomb” fairytale is obviously a case of Russia considering using WND in a false flag operation, as a pretext for using nuclear weapons against Ukraine.

Nobody is going to fall for that. It’s a shortcut to Russian national suicide.

If Russia uses nuclear weapon on Ukraine, what can America do about it? Probably nothing beyond sanctions.

 

[Junaids]

If Russia uses nuclear weapon on Ukraine, what can America do about it? Probably nothing beyond sanctions.

If Russia uses nuclear weapons in Ukraine, the “problem” for Russia is not America.

We will have a new Conservative PM in London without a national mandate and with a dysfunctional economy. And the Conservative Party is, as I have previously discussed with [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION], completely dependent upon the votes of Polish and Lithuanian immigrants.

The UK would respond to Russian nuclear strikes with comprehensive non-nuclear strikes to decimate Russia’s army, Air Force and navy from Murmansk to Vladivostok.

It would be a political masterstroke for a Conservative government which is otherwise doomed.

Would the USA join in? It’s not certain that they would join the initial strikes. But within half an hour the Russian response would bring the US into the war.

 

[Junaids]

If Russia uses nuclear weapon on Ukraine, what can America do about it? Probably nothing beyond sanctions.

To add to my previous comment, the UK and USA already both have Air Force fighters and bombers and cruise missiles on the Black Sea opposite Crimea.

They have built up units at Constanta in Romania, which is just 275 miles from Crimea.

Russia is a Flat Track Bully. And Putin continues to push his luck, seeing what he can get away with, but Constanta is a noose around his neck, and if he uses WMD he hangs himself.

I lived through the Falklands War.

I know that a dead-as-a-dodo Conservative government in the UK can resurrect itself by defeating a ragtag conscript army.

I know that the German campaign in the USSR is not the benchmark for fighting in freezing conditions, and that well equiped professional armies have a huge advantage in winter, rather than being stuck in a stalemate.

And above all, I know that a losing force cannot use its WMD to defeat a conventional army which is beating it. It’s off limits.

Putin doesn’t seem to understand these lessons. Perhaps he should pay attention - especially as in 1982 Argentina’s Armada actually had the same number of aircraft carriers that Russia has now.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

If Russia uses nuclear weapons in Ukraine, the “problem” for Russia is not America.

We will have a new Conservative PM in London without a national mandate and with a dysfunctional economy. And the Conservative Party is, as I have previously discussed with [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION], completely dependent upon the votes of Polish and Lithuanian immigrants.

The UK would respond to Russian nuclear strikes with comprehensive non-nuclear strikes to decimate Russia’s army, Air Force and navy from Murmansk to Vladivostok.

It would be a political masterstroke for a Conservative government which is otherwise doomed.

Would the USA join in? It’s not certain that they would join the initial strikes. But within half an hour the Russian response would bring the US into the war.

And what do you think Russia will do then? Nothing?

You destroy their military and they might decide to move on from tactical nukes to nuking Kiev. Will the west end the world over Ukraine?

 

[Junaids]

The cruise missile situation is very instructive.

We all know that Russia has less than 100 left, and for months has been using ship-to-ship and surface-to-air missiles in place of cruise missiles. And Ukraine is shooting down roughly 75% of the Russian cruise missiles anyway.

In contrast, the UK has roughly 100 submarine-launched Tomahawk cruise missiles and around 1000 aircraft-delivered Storm Shadow cruise missiles.

Every missile that Russia shoots at a power station or a playground is worsening its numerical deficit against the UK, let alone the USA.

 

[Junaids]

And what do you think Russia will do then? Nothing?

You destroy their military and they might decide to move on from tactical nukes to nuking Kiev. Will the west end the world over Ukraine?

Why are you accusing the west of escalation?

It was Russia which invaded Ukraine - we just gave Ukraine the means to defend themselves.

My scenario is what happens if Russia uses nuclear weapons. And I am saying the west should respond to Russian nuclear escalation by ensuring the complete disarmament of Russia by conventional means.

The only cards that Russia holds are nuclear blackmail. They are poor, they are backward and their conventional armed forces are inferior to the UK, let alone the USA.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The war is at the beginning of the end . Ukraine is losing so badly , the Brits are talking with Russians now .

 

[Robert]

If Russia uses nuclear weapons in Ukraine, the “problem” for Russia is not America.

We will have a new Conservative PM in London without a national mandate and with a dysfunctional economy. And the Conservative Party is, as I have previously discussed with [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION], completely dependent upon the votes of Polish and Lithuanian immigrants.

The UK would respond to Russian nuclear strikes with comprehensive non-nuclear strikes to decimate Russia’s army, Air Force and navy from Murmansk to Vladivostok.

I doubt that.

Firstly: Any attack by NATO member forces on Russian soil would trigger a nuclear response. Putin has said that and he has a record of doing what he says.

Secondly: UK is not going to act against Russia unless Article Five is declared by every NATO member.

Thirdly: We haven’t got the kit anyway. Twelve years of Tories have slashed our military to the bone.

The way for the West to support Ukraine is to help them keep bleeding Russia until Putin loses face and is deposed. There’s a parallel with their ten-year Afghanistan incursion here. USA could afford to deploy in an overseas war for twenty years because they have very deep pockets. Russia has a tenth of USA’s GDP and cannot sustain a foreign war.

 

[Junaids]

The war is at the beginning of the end . Ukraine is losing so badly , the Brits are talking with Russians now .

Ukraine has liberated large areas of all four “annexed” oblasts in recent weeks.

Russia is evacuating Kherson.

On every battlefield Ukraine is winning and Russia is losing. That’s why Russia is now resorting to naked terrorism by sending missiles to destroy civilian infrastructure.

But they are still losing on every military front.

 

[Junaids]

I doubt that.

Firstly: Any attack by NATO member forces on Russian soil would trigger a nuclear response. Putin has said that and he has a record of doing what he says.

Secondly: UK is not going to act against Russia unless Article Five is declared by every NATO member.

Thirdly: We haven’t got the kit anyway. Twelve years of Tories have slashed our military to the bone.

The way for the West to support Ukraine is to help them keep bleeding Russia until Putin loses face and is deposed. There’s a parallel with their ten-year Afghanistan incursion here. USA could afford to deploy in an overseas war for twenty years because they have very deep pockets. Russia has a tenth of USA’s GDP and cannot sustain a foreign war.

I agree that the preferred strategy is simply to let Russia to continue to disarm itself.

Six months ago Russia had more cruise missiles than the UK: now it has around 1/10 of the number the UK has.

My comments about striking Russia relate to a situation in which Russia has used nuclear weapons. The pressure from Poles and Lithuanians in the UK to respond would potentially be enormous.

If you don’t stop Putin when he nukes a democratic neighbour, when would you ever use your conventional arsenal, let alone a nuclear one?

 

[Junaids]

I doubt that.

Firstly: Any attack by NATO member forces on Russian soil would trigger a nuclear response. Putin has said that and he has a record of doing what he says.

Secondly: UK is not going to act against Russia unless Article Five is declared by every NATO member.

Thirdly: We haven’t got the kit anyway. Twelve years of Tories have slashed our military to the bone.

The way for the West to support Ukraine is to help them keep bleeding Russia until Putin loses face and is deposed. There’s a parallel with their ten-year Afghanistan incursion here. USA could afford to deploy in an overseas war for twenty years because they have very deep pockets. Russia has a tenth of USA’s GDP and cannot sustain a foreign war.

The fallout of a Russian nuclear strike in Ukraine is effectively a nuclear attack against Romania, Poland and the Baltic States. Just watch the Geiger counters!

Article 5 would be invoked by them immediately, and neither Hungary nor anyone else has an exemption at that point.

 

[cpleigh]

Got to say it does feel like something is 'thawing'. Erdogan said Putin had a softer tone towards Ukraine last week, Shiogu making calls to the US x 2 and Uk, France etc and RT suspending a broadcaster for his genocidal talk on state TV. Her statement below was quite telling i thought, they've spent the past 6 months telling Russians Ukraine didn't exist and their language didn't either.

Margarita Simonyan, the Russian state-controlled news channel's editor-in-chief, said Mr Krasovsky had been suspended because of his "disgusting comments".

She added that no one at Russia Today shared his views.

In a statement on the channel's website, Ms Simonyan added: "For the children of Ukraine, as well as the children of Donbas, and all other children, I wish that all this ends as soon as possible, and they can live and study in peace again - in the language they consider native."

 

[MenInG]

We have now removed the previous thread as it had simply become unmanageable and was simply going nowhere.

Before you start posting new articles/views on this subject, carefully read the below and understand what is being asked of you when posting in this thread.

Simply use this thread to post new and to discuss the situation with the Russia-Ukraine conflict

Make sure you make:

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- No racism or encouragement of racist behaviour
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- RESPECT each other's views

If in doubt, create a thread in MRR and ask for guidance from the Admin team.

Reminder

Any posts we feel are unnecessarily aggressive towards other posters will be removed.

 

[Technics 1210]

There is no radioactive fall out from tactical nukes, unlike the nukes dropped by Amreeka on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Thus tactical, and if Russia decides to nuke Ukraine tactically, then it will obliterate Ukraine, while neighbouring countries will remain unscathed.

It is best for NATO to secure peace now.

 

[cpleigh]

There is no radioactive fall out from tactical nukes, unlike the nukes dropped by Amreeka on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Thus tactical, and if Russia decides to nuke Ukraine tactically, then it will obliterate Ukraine, while neighbouring countries will remain unscathed.

It is best for NATO to secure peace now.

All things nuclear create a radioactive fallout. Tactical ones less so due to their size and height of detonation.

You are wrong again.

Tactical Nukes wouldn't obliterate Ukraine either, they are about as powerful enough to destroy a village.

Not sure the political fallout would be worth it for Russia

 

[KingKhanWC]

Ukraine has liberated large areas of all four “annexed” oblasts in recent weeks.

Russia is evacuating Kherson.

On every battlefield Ukraine is winning and Russia is losing. That’s why Russia is now resorting to naked terrorism by sending missiles to destroy civilian infrastructure.

But they are still losing on every military front.

Firstly let keep this civil to respect the moderators for their good work.

As I wrote UK is now talking regularly to Russia to bring this war to an end. This is great news for UK, Europe but bad bad new for Ukraine because UK and everyone knows the writing is on the wall.

You also have 30 US Democrats urging Sleepy Joe to have direct talks with Russia.

The Ukrainian offensive in Kherson and other places has been a terrible failure. So many Ukrainians have been killed , tens of thousands of poorly trained civilians. Now Ukraine is stating all men at any time of day or night should be prepared to be called up for more offensives, or to be accurate cannon fodder.

Ukraine is not wining anything, look at the state of the nation, its broken. While Russia is stronger than ever in history with economy and military support and of course backing of MOST of the worlds population.

But sure lets give another 3 months of your winning Ukraine stance, its been 6 already since you first stated. Putin is no rush.

 

[PakLFC]

Have they?

Ukraine is a democracy in which the current government is a centre-left liberal administration elected on twin platforms of taking on corruption and protecting the rights of Russian speakers.

The bogus pretexts for invasion are their imaginary far right policies and anti- Russian policy.

You presumably are referring to the wars In Afghanistan and Iraq, against illegitimate unelected regimes which protected and exported terrorists.

Those wars were fought by a Republican US government - which is not in power now - and a Labour UK government, which also is not in power.

There is no equivalence. None.

British imperialism was a good thing or are you saying Russia is not an invading force? Doesn't matter who was in power during American invasions. They are all one behind the scenes in fact i would say that the UK has always been bullied by the Americans to obey otherwise London and Manchester could be bombed too. Ironically Putin is now threatening the UK with the same.

 

[Junaids]

A little light relief for once.

The Russian military propagandist Semyon Pegov has been evacuated from the war zone after sustaining a comically suspicious foot injury. It’s clear from the photos that the bullet was shot directly downward at a range of less than 1 metre.

The old ones are still the best. If you’re scared of dying at the front line, shoot yourself in the foot!

Source (including photos): ChrisO Twitter.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Why are you accusing the west of escalation?

It was Russia which invaded Ukraine - we just gave Ukraine the means to defend themselves.

My scenario is what happens if Russia uses nuclear weapons. And I am saying the west should respond to Russian nuclear escalation by ensuring the complete disarmament of Russia by conventional means.

The only cards that Russia holds are nuclear blackmail. They are poor, they are backward and their conventional armed forces are inferior to the UK, let alone the USA.

And I am asking what do you think what happens when the west responds if Russia uses nuke? You have to plan for that as well. Otherwise you end up making unrealistic threats like destroying their conventional forces. Most likely the west will try to isolate Russia even more if they use nukes, however no sane leader will risk end of world over Southeastern Ukraine.

 

[SalimBhai]

According to some posters here, russia was going to win the war in a week when it first started. We are almost a year into it. I think it would be fair to say Russia got a bloody nose. Ukraine will keep fighting till the aid stops, which is 50/50 for now. Lets see. But so far Russia has been embarrassed. They are the stronger nation.

 

[Junaids]

Interesting video footage today of Russian soldiers beating up a Muslim colleague, telling him they are “sick of your f***ing Allah, you can only pray when we tell you”.

 

[Junaids]

And I am asking what do you think what happens when the west responds if Russia uses nuke? You have to plan for that as well. Otherwise you end up making unrealistic threats like destroying their conventional forces. Most likely the west will try to isolate Russia even more if they use nukes, however no sane leader will risk end of world over Southeastern Ukraine.

You are giving any nation that acquires nuclear weapons a blank cheque to break any and all international laws and to steal, rape and destroy whatever they feel like.

There has to be a red line somewhere.

 

[bones]

According to some posters here, russia was going to win the war in a week when it first started. We are almost a year into it. I think it would be fair to say Russia got a bloody nose. Ukraine will keep fighting till the aid stops, which is 50/50 for now. Lets see. But so far Russia has been embarrassed. They are the stronger nation.

According to which posters? If you mean those who follow MSM then yes maybe you are right.

You think the Russians have been embarassed? With just 200k men they managed to control a frontline of over 1000km against an army 3.5 times largers that has been funded and supplied by the collective west. Right now Russia are beginning to take the gloves off, electricity outages all over Ukraine for example.

Let's see what winter brings Ukraine and what it brings Europe. I can tell you with absolute certainty, Russians won't have issues eating or heating. Ukraine and Europe on the other hand...

 

[MenInG]

Please keep all comments directed towards answering arguments and not target any poster.

 

[Junaids]

According to which posters? If you mean those who follow MSM then yes maybe you are right.

You think the Russians have been embarassed? With just 200k men they managed to control a frontline of over 1000km against an army 3.5 times largers that has been funded and supplied by the collective west. Right now Russia are beginning to take the gloves off, electricity outages all over Ukraine for example.

Let's see what winter brings Ukraine and what it brings Europe. I can tell you with absolute certainty, Russians won't have issues eating or heating. Ukraine and Europe on the other hand...

Once and for all.

Russia has gone backwards territorially in the last six months.

And glorying in “taking the gloves off” by committing the war crime of destroying a civilian energy network is the precise equivalent of saying “now we are gassing your civilians at Auschwitz and Dachau, how do you like that?”

Destroying Ukraine’s energy network is a war crime being perpetrated by a pathetic and inhuman Russia which is being thrashed on the battlefield.

 

[mazkhan]

Looks like zelensky is smoking something heavy again wants Israel to supply iron dome system.

At 50 million dollars a battery imagine how many are needed to cover such a large land mass like ukraine the interceptor itself ranges from 100000-150000$ a piece like Israel is gonna supply that to shoot down a 20000 $ iranian kamikaze drone with a moped engine.

 

[mazkhan]

Russia has withdrawn due to it being covenvetionally rubbish they simply dont have the hardware , tech, logistics and manpower to go on an offensive they are tactically withdrawing and digging in now with hard fortifications.

Now it will cost ukraine a lot in manpower and money and weapons to dislodge those fortified positions ukraine itself doesn't have much hence why the war has become more or less a stalemate .

West has achieved what it wanted that it has defanged the russian conventional forces and proven the Russian airforce is more or less completely pants and incapable of fighting modern warfare.

 

[Technics 1210]

Nothing is more embarrassing than Iranian kamikaze drones outmaneuvering NATO weapons at a fraction of the cost.

Makes one wonder what the NATO budget is spent on, while nations under sanctions produce more effective weapons.

 

[Technics 1210]

Mark my words, as austerity kicks in during winter, the public will lose interest in this war.

We have already seen this in the USA where more people are concerned about inflation than this war. Plus 30 DEMOCRATIC members of the house are calling for Biden to initiate peace talks.

NATO is losing this proxy war, and the politicians and public in the West know it.

 

[sweep_shot]

Looks like zelensky is smoking something heavy again wants Israel to supply iron dome system.

At 50 million dollars a battery imagine how many are needed to cover such a large land mass like ukraine the interceptor itself ranges from 100000-150000$ a piece like Israel is gonna supply that to shoot down a 20000 $ iranian kamikaze drone with a moped engine.

It is a "price worth paying" according to some. They should foot the bills.

 

[bones]

The IAEA are going to Ukraine to investigate the dirty bomb claims. I wonder if they will let Russian representatives attend.

 

[MenInG]

A few of you still not getting the idea of not getting personal with each other.

 

[bones]

Ukrainian military commander confirms that the Russians are not looking to leave Kherson, they are digging in. Russia are basically fortifying the positions.

 

[the Great Khan]

Ukrainian military commander confirms that the Russians are not looking to leave Kherson, they are digging in. Russia are basically fortifying the positions.

According to some analysts the Russians have sent in fresh troops and are fortifying Kherson. The Ukrainians are walking into a meat grinder. A massive contingent of troops are massing at the Belarusian border. Combat troops have been sent to the border areas while they are being relieved by reservists who will continue training in Russia ready for rotations.

There is a calculation that Ukraine will lose the kherson front and then Russia will push forward. Bakhmut is still contested and that is a key battle front. Russia has time..the west does nor..the Russians will pull back from kherson but not after they have inflicted much damage on the attackers..they will then flatten the area with air strikes and artillery..it will be a massacre. This war must end and the Europeans etc should be pushing for a ceasefire.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Nothing is more embarrassing than Iranian kamikaze drones outmaneuvering NATO weapons at a fraction of the cost.

Makes one wonder what the NATO budget is spent on, while nations under sanctions produce more effective weapons.

Do you remember a few years ago when Iran captured the American drone? They reverse engineered the RQ-170 , this wasnt the start of their drone program but was a game changer.

The kamikaze drones are pretty accurate, not so expensive, probably 20-30k each. Russia then used this tech from Iran, via USA to create their own versions.

Nato is giving difficult weapons for farmers, milkmen and posties to use against Russia, it makes no sense.

 

[Technics 1210]

Do you remember a few years ago when Iran captured the American drone? They reverse engineered the RQ-170 , this wasnt the start of their drone program but was a game changer.

The kamikaze drones are pretty accurate, not so expensive, probably 20-30k each. Russia then used this tech from Iran, via USA to create their own versions.

Nato is giving difficult weapons for farmers, milkmen and posties to use against Russia, it makes no sense.

Yeah, I remember that!

I think NATO is doing what it does best in a war, be it Europe, Asia, or in particular against Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya/Syria, that is to test weapons while generating revenue through a war economy. Thus far, NATO weapons have failed, and NATO funding has evaporated into thin air, while Russia is winning on a daily basis.

This is a poor advert for NATO and if I was a defense minister or thinking about joining NATO, I would question contribution towards the NATO budget to the tune of 2% of GDP. Clearly money that can be better spent on improving the wellbeing of society opposed to putting society in danger.

So called start of the art NATO weapons and military equipment, bamboozled by paper kamikaze drones.

My gut feeling is NATO will step up and resort to biological warfare.

 

[bones]

Here is an article that pretty much confirms what we knew all along. NATO are not united in their position on Ukraine. If they enter a war it would be as a coalition of allied forces and not NATO. I’m almost certain they are thinking about it and want to see what the public think first before making a decision. As far as I can see there is no appetite anywhere in the American or European public for a war with Russia.

https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2022/...ctly-enter-Ukraine-war-w-o-NATO--ex-CIA-chief

 

[Junaids]

The letter from “The Squad”, the progressive Democrat caucus in the USA, has basically discredited their own Russian-funded appeal for negotiations with Russia.

It’s heartening to see both Biden himself and Mitch McConnell with the Republicans maintaining order against Russian aggression and criminal atrocities.

The Squad’s letter has basically worked wonders in discrediting the idea of negotiation with Russia.

But the very idea of negotiation is insane anyway. It’s like a mother negotiating with a rapist how many of her children she is willing to let him rape.

Interesting footage out of Donbas this week with the release of the compilation of drone footage of Russian soldiers stealing washing machines from people’s houses.

It doesn’t matter whether you are the people that Russia claims to be liberating - they still steal your property and rape your children.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The letter from “The Squad”, the progressive Democrat caucus in the USA, has basically discredited their own Russian-funded appeal for negotiations with Russia.

It’s heartening to see both Biden himself and Mitch McConnell with the Republicans maintaining order against Russian aggression and criminal atrocities.

The Squad’s letter has basically worked wonders in discrediting the idea of negotiation with Russia.

But the very idea of negotiation is insane anyway. It’s like a mother negotiating with a rapist how many of her children she is willing to let him rape.

Interesting footage out of Donbas this week with the release of the compilation of drone footage of Russian soldiers stealing washing machines from people’s houses.

It doesn’t matter whether you are the people that Russia claims to be liberating - they still steal your property and rape your children.

Biden is mentally unstable, should be a nursing home. Its not a good argument using what Biden says.

Its not just 30 democrats, there are republicans too. There are Nato members too, there are EU nations too. Not to forget the MAJORITY population of the planet all want this to end , for Russia and Ukraine to come to a deal and dismiss the Zelensky nonsense of wanting to take back the 4 new Russian lands.

I think its time to accept this. Russia within 4 weeks will have a huge army of proper soldiers with proper Russian military equipment. Give in now or face decimation , they all know it.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Yeah, I remember that!

I think NATO is doing what it does best in a war, be it Europe, Asia, or in particular against Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya/Syria, that is to test weapons while generating revenue through a war economy. Thus far, NATO weapons have failed, and NATO funding has evaporated into thin air, while Russia is winning on a daily basis.

This is a poor advert for NATO and if I was a defense minister or thinking about joining NATO, I would question contribution towards the NATO budget to the tune of 2% of GDP. Clearly money that can be better spent on improving the wellbeing of society opposed to putting society in danger.

So called start of the art NATO weapons and military equipment, bamboozled by paper kamikaze drones.

My gut feeling is NATO will step up and resort to biological warfare.

It seems to be the case, desperation leads to desperate efforts, dangerous efforts and sadly possibly world defining efforts.

Russia has done very well to stop the months of attacks on the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear facility, its pretty secure now. One of the only few remaining solutions is a dirty bomb. Even the biolabs were quickly destroyed by Russia.

 

[Junaids]

Biden is mentally unstable, should be a nursing home. Its not a good argument using what Biden says.

Its not just 30 democrats, there are republicans too. There are Nato members too, there are EU nations too. Not to forget the MAJORITY population of the planet all want this to end , for Russia and Ukraine to come to a deal and dismiss the Zelensky nonsense of wanting to take back the 4 new Russian lands.

I think its time to accept this. Russia within 4 weeks will have a huge army of proper soldiers with proper Russian military equipment. Give in now or face decimation , they all know it.

The four “new Russian lands” you cite have never had support of more than 25% of the population for ceasing to be part of Ukraine.

Russia’s claim is identical in justification and legitimacy to India asserting sovereignty over Karachi and Lahore.

 

[Gilly]

Junaids, why do you respond, you are smarter than that.

 

[Junaids]

Junaids, why do you respond, you are smarter than that.

It really upsets me.

Hitler showed Chamberlain that there is no such thing as diplomacy with invaders like Putin.

“Diplomacy” means appeasement. It means letting murderers and rapists carry on raping and murdering.

Putin understands one language - force.

He has nuclear weapons which can only be used as an act of suicide. And he has a pathetic ragtag Army, Air Force and Navy, which would be destroyed by the USA or UK or France (and I mean or, not and) in less than an hour.

Diplomacy with Putin means being an accessory to murder, an accessory to rape.

I am disgusted by the likes of AOC and Kevin McCarthy. How dare they enable this murderer?

 

[Gilly]

It really upsets me.

Hitler showed Chamberlain that there is no such thing as diplomacy with invaders like Putin.

“Diplomacy” means appeasement. It means letting murderers and rapists carry on raping and murdering.

Putin understands one language - force.

He has nuclear weapons which can only be used as an act of suicide. And he has a pathetic ragtag Army, Air Force and Navy, which would be destroyed by the USA or UK or France (and I mean or, not and) in less than an hour.

Diplomacy with Putin means being an accessory to murder, an accessory to rape.

I am disgusted by the likes of AOC and Kevin McCarthy. How dare they enable this murderer?

Surely you can read that these posts are designed to upset people, when posters write such childish things you must ignore them or you just end up playing their game. This is the only place they can express their hatred, everywhere else just ignores them.

 

[Junaids]

Interesting Tweet today:

After eight months of warfare on its own doorstep, the world’s “second most powerful military” is reduced to begging for weapons and instructors from Iran.

 

[sweep_shot]

It really upsets me.

Hitler showed Chamberlain that there is no such thing as diplomacy with invaders like Putin.

“Diplomacy” means appeasement. It means letting murderers and rapists carry on raping and murdering.

Putin understands one language - force.

He has nuclear weapons which can only be used as an act of suicide. And he has a pathetic ragtag Army, Air Force and Navy, which would be destroyed by the USA or UK or France (and I mean or, not and) in less than an hour.

Diplomacy with Putin means being an accessory to murder, an accessory to rape.

I am disgusted by the likes of AOC and Kevin McCarthy. How dare they enable this murderer?

There is only one solution and that is diplomacy.

If you think Russia can be destroyed in "less than an hour", you definitely are out of touch with reality.

 

[Robert]

Junaids, why do you respond, you are smarter than that.

Quite right [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]. Stop wasting your energy on this thread. As you say it just upsets you. It upsets me too. Sometimes the best thing to do for your own mental well-being is take a step away.

 

[bones]

There is only one solution and that is diplomacy.

If you think Russia can be destroyed in "less than an hour", you definitely are out of touch with reality.

The Russians are fighting NATO via their proxy and winning easily. The Russians control a frontline of 1000km+ with just 200k forces and we are to believe NATO could easily destroy them? What would nato use? They have send all their excess equipment and ammunition to Ukraine already and have lost a lot of it.

Now it gets interesting because not only did Russia mobilise the 300k there are news reports saying the Russians have gone up close to 400k.

Everyone keeps saying nato would destroy Russia, my question is how? They haven’t prepared, they have no supply or communication lines and right now most of nato has an economic and energy crisis because they sanctioned the very country who supplies more than a third of their energy.

Former military commanders have said that it would take close to a year for America to prepare for a fight in Ukraine. So the best they can and are doing is sending smaller units.

 

[bones]

November and December will be interesting because the Russians have amassed three huge armies for what looks like three frontal attacks. One of them likely a feint and two of them actual ready for big sweeping moves.

The Americans have the intel, they know what’s coming so they are trying really hard to get involved somehow but the public do not care about Ukraine enough to support a war.

 

[bones]

Just had a think about this, in order for American forces to join the war they would need air cover. How would they get it without control of the black sea? They can't so at best there would be partial air cover.

 

[bones]

Winter is coming. Even MSM knows what this means.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/winters-onset-will-change-russias-war-in-ukraine-11666608971

 

[Junaids]

There is only one solution and that is diplomacy.

If you think Russia can be destroyed in "less than an hour", you definitely are out of touch with reality.

There is no place whatsoever for diplomacy with Russia until it withdraws from all invaded lands and commits to paying for the damage it has inflicted.

As long as Russia does not cross any red lines in terms of weapons of mass destruction or mass war crimes against civilians, the solution is to continue funding the Ukrainians to continue to batter the Russians on the battlefield. Just like now.

If Russia crosses the red lines listed above, the next step is for NATO to completely destroy their armed forces by conventional means. That would take less than an hour, and would also involve the absolute destruction of the Kerch Bridge and Putin’s Palace at Sochi.

If Russia attempts to use WMD against any NATO member, the next step is the total devastation of Russia by nuclear strikes.

That’s all.

 

[Junaids]

Just had a think about this, in order for American forces to join the war they would need air cover. How would they get it without control of the black sea? They can't so at best there would be partial air cover.

The USAF and RAF are already operating out of Constanta - on the Black Sea - in Romania. They can have total air superiority over the Black Sea in less than an hour.

 

[Junaids]

The USAF and RAF are already operating out of Constanta - on the Black Sea - in Romania. They can have total air superiority over the Black Sea in less than an hour.

The USAF currently has 2,400 people at the Constanta Air Base, supporting a fleet of F15’s.

And the UK and Spain both have Eurofighter Typhoons operating out of Constanta.

 

[Technics 1210]

Ukraine war: South Africa refuses to seize sanctioned Russian superyacht.

"South Africa has no legal obligation to abide by sanctions imposed by the US and EU," Vincent Magwenya told reporters in Pretoria on Tuesday.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-63395322

Well well well, the power of BRICS+ on display here.

 

[Junaids]

Ukraine war: South Africa refuses to seize sanctioned Russian superyacht.

"South Africa has no legal obligation to abide by sanctions imposed by the US and EU," Vincent Magwenya told reporters in Pretoria on Tuesday.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-63395322

Well well well, the power of BRICS+ on display here.

Fearsome BRICS+ power.

The world’s 39th biggest economy: 60 million South Africans sharing almost as big an economy as 5.7 million Singaporeans.

Maybe they should let in some other superpowers like Bangladesh or Vietnam?

 

[the Great Khan]

The USAF and RAF are already operating out of Constanta - on the Black Sea - in Romania. They can have total air superiority over the Black Sea in less than an hour.

That's big talk. To achieve air superiority they will have to fight Russia. That is not going to happen.

I'm actually very very disappointed with some of you on here. This is a discussion forum that allows different views and probably one of the rare forums that allows views that are contrary to the Western viewpoint.

As soon as those of you on here who hold (and I say this for discussions sake) pro western views are challenged you start throwing our toys out of the pram. I suggest some thicker skin is required.

Coming back to this conflict, there is no way in hell NATO is gonna fight openly. Yes there are maniacs in Washington who want a big brawl but hopefully nobody is that stupid.

Finally you need to go and reassess the current dire situation for Ukraine. It is looking very very precarious for them. If they fail in kherson whether they take it or not , because they will fail, where will the next load of troops come from? The core of the Ukraine army is gone..what your left with is new soldiers that won't fight at that level..

This war needs to stop now..before we are all in a situation we don't want..instead of spouting nonsense manybof younshould be talking about how we can stop this war..

 

[the Great Khan]

The USAF currently has 2,400 people at the Constanta Air Base, supporting a fleet of F15’s.

And the UK and Spain both have Eurofighter Typhoons operating out of Constanta.

There is no guarantee that any of those aircraft would get off the ground if hostilities begin. Let's pray nobody is as stupid as you are to start ww3.

 

[Junaids]

That's big talk. To achieve air superiority they will have to fight Russia. That is not going to happen.

I'm actually very very disappointed with some of you on here. This is a discussion forum that allows different views and probably one of the rare forums that allows views that are contrary to the Western viewpoint.

As soon as those of you on here who hold (and I say this for discussions sake) pro western views are challenged you start throwing our toys out of the pram. I suggest some thicker skin is required.

Coming back to this conflict, there is no way in hell NATO is gonna fight openly. Yes there are maniacs in Washington who want a big brawl but hopefully nobody is that stupid.

Finally you need to go and reassess the current dire situation for Ukraine. It is looking very very precarious for them. If they fail in kherson whether they take it or not , because they will fail, where will the next load of troops come from? The core of the Ukraine army is gone..what your left with is new soldiers that won't fight at that level..

This war needs to stop now..before we are all in a situation we don't want..instead of spouting nonsense manybof younshould be talking about how we can stop this war..

Like all Russian propaganda talking points, the truth is the precise opposite of this.

He blames the war on western aggression. Yet Russia launched an unprovoked invasion and is terrorising civilians while it gets smashed on the battlefield.

He talks of Ukraine running out of soldiers - yet it is Russia which has called up untrained, unarmed and unfit conscripts.

 

[Technics 1210]

It seems to be the case, desperation leads to desperate efforts, dangerous efforts and sadly possibly world defining efforts.

Russia has done very well to stop the months of attacks on the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear facility, its pretty secure now. One of the only few remaining solutions is a dirty bomb. Even the biolabs were quickly destroyed by Russia.

It is clear from the onset that Russia has focused on minimizing structural and civilian loss in Ukraine, or as NATO would say 'collateral damage'.

Russia has even offered gas/oil supplies to Europe via Turkey; circumventing the ridiculous and Western self-harming sanctions imposed on Russia.

Why would Russia/Putin even offer this? Well, it is clear, he is not interested in civilian casualties or damage to Ukrainian infrastructure.

All NATO have to do is come to the table and negotiate peace, they have done so with other terrorist/despot regimes, but no, NATO's reluctance and funding of this war are the main contributing factors to civilian casualties and infrastructural damage in Ukraine.

 

[mazkhan]

Russia may be beginning to draft in Afghan commandos there's 30000 of them trained to high standards by western special forces and who have experience of brutal battles with taliban .

 

[Pakpak]

There is no guarantee that any of those aircraft would get off the ground if hostilities begin. Let's pray nobody is as stupid as you are to start ww3.

This is what I don't get.

It's good having different views. And like you I also want this war to end. But I have no idea how people seem to think the UK and the US can destroy all Russian assets in Russia with air strikes and decimate their military and what? Russians will sit quietly?

Any person can see that would lead to a nuclear war. And people like Junaids think otherwise. Its simply stupidly

 

[cpleigh]

So Russia isn't fighting Nazis now? Its a war against 'Satan' and a 'Holy war'

Absolute Jokers

 

[Junaids]

So Russia isn't fighting Nazis now? Its a war against 'Satan' and a 'Holy war'

Absolute Jokers

That’s nothing.

The legendary sociopath Milchakov, who came to prominence in 2011 by eating a puppy in a live stream, is all over Telegram today stating that he is a Nazi in the Russian occupying forces.

Seems like the army which needs deNazification is the Russian one!

 

[James]

The passion for Ukraine in the UK seems to have died off significantly. In reality we have come to the conclusion that we are all paying for this war through the nose, and most of us can’t afford it. We need to get our own house in order now. Praying for no more bloodshed & that all parties can negotiate a sensible conclusion sooner rather than later.

 

[bones]

The passion for Ukraine in the UK seems to have died off significantly. In reality we have come to the conclusion that we are all paying for this war through the nose, and most of us can’t afford it. We need to get our own house in order now. Praying for no more bloodshed & that all parties can negotiate a sensible conclusion sooner rather than later.

This is the pattern across Europe and America too. There is nowhere near enough support to join the war.

But why would the Russians stop now? They are just about to start big offensives with the large reenforcements.

 

[MenInG]

Vladimir Putin has overseen annual exercises by Russia's strategic nuclear forces at a time of heightened tensions with the West over his eight-month-long war in Ukraine.

Ballistic and cruise missiles were launched from the Arctic to Russia's Far East, the Kremlin said.

The US was told about the drill under the terms of the New Start arms treaty.

The launches took place as Russia makes unsubstantiated claims that Ukraine was plotting to use a "dirty bomb".

A "dirty bomb" is an explosive device mixed with radioactive material and the Russian allegations have been widely rejected by Western countries as false.

Kyiv warned the claims indicate Moscow itself could be preparing such an attack.

The last Russian nuclear drill took place five days before it invaded Ukraine.

Ahead of the latest exercise, military officials in Washington pointed out that, in notifying the US, the Russians were complying with arms control obligations.

Nato is also staging its own nuclear exercises, dubbed Steadfast Noon, in north-western Europe. The Western defensive alliance said training flights involving 14 countries were taking place until Sunday over Belgium, the UK and the North Sea.

Russia's exercises were being held against a backdrop of a flagging campaign in southern and eastern Ukraine.

Moscow has sent troops into the key southern city of Kherson to help defend it. Russia took Kherson in the early days of the war, but recently it has come under pressure as Ukrainian troops advance.

Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu was seen on Russian TV saying that the aim of the drill was for military command and control to practise carrying out "a massive nuclear strike by the strategic nuclear forces in retaliation for the enemy's nuclear strike".

BBC

 

[cpleigh]

This is the pattern across Europe and America too. There is nowhere near enough support to join the war.

But why would the Russians stop now? They are just about to start big offensives with the large reenforcements.

You keep claiming about this mythical big Russian offensive. Absolutely nothing to suggest that at all.

 

[cpleigh]

The passion for Ukraine in the UK seems to have died off significantly. In reality we have come to the conclusion that we are all paying for this war through the nose, and most of us can’t afford it. We need to get our own house in order now. Praying for no more bloodshed & that all parties can negotiate a sensible conclusion sooner rather than later.

I don't think it's died off, just there is more news now and we've become used to the Russia - Ukraine situation.
.I was thinking about Israel and Palestine this week. It was on the news about Israel launching an offensive into the west bank and I thought I should be outraged... But it's all I've ever known there so it's just become normal