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The Wrestling Discussion Thread

So this was the order I watched backlash in:

1. Fatal Four Way for the US belt, good start to the show
2. Becky vs Lyra, an ok match, need more intensity from Lyra and maybe Becky will bring that out
3. Cena vs Orton - This is arguably one of the best ‘singles’ matches they’ve ever had and for once the AE era style overbooking didn’t hurt the match, excellent flow, I expected nothing less from Cena and he will grow in confidence from here / get even better with the ring activity, Orton’s timing is unmatched in this industry, he’s the most natural pro-wrestler of the 21st century with beautiful technique, he is doing the best work of his career and is in insane shape, WWE keep making the mistake of not seeing his true worth.
4. Mysterio Jnr vs Penta; excellent mid-card match, great chemistry between the two and Dom looks better then ever really, one of the best prospects in wrestling and the crowd are getting behind him organically, Mr. Thicko should scrap the plans and for once make use of the heat being generated naturally.

My unofficial main-event was Gunther vs Pat; why are ya”ll not chatting about this? One of the worst PPV matches I’ve ever seen in my lifetime involving a major top of the card star, Pat can look good with the bells and whistles, but was this the opponent and match to make a mockery of the business? Seriously, I want to throw a brick at my TV, what the actual F did I just watch. You made Gunther look like a dork, you made Pat look like a dork; heck you bought them to the same level, that scumbag killed kayfabe along time ago, but this is just taking the p!ss, and *** was that respect thing afterwards, as though Pat genuinely proved he could compete. If you’re booking this, at least get it right you nonce, this match shouldn’t have gone on for more than 2 mins, and you only book it to set-up Gunther vs Wade Barett; that would sell out Wembley, e.g. Pat gets killed, Cole is about to get killed and Wade steps in etc But what has been achieved here, the crowd already see Gunther as a joke.

I don’t mind if another 500 million Janet Garcia’s have moan, I would always take Vince over this pretender.

With all the issues in creative right now, there is one solution; fire that 4/10 low IQ doofus.

Also, what on earth was up with the backlash stage, is H using money from the IMF to produce these shows 🤔

Triple 🤡🤡🤡
 
60 is too young man, I don’t know what the cause was but this guy am sure was still wrestling more recently. He was pioneer of the industry without a doubt and one of the most popular stars of the 90’s and early 2000’s when ECW was briefly resurrected. One hell of a character and for better or worse, there was nothing he wouldn’t put his body through; forever the Suicidal, Homicidal, Genocidal and Death-Defying Mainiac who inspired many to this day.
 
posted this literally a month ago, he even had his last match few weeks ago iirc
Suleiman said:
Speaking of ECW, Sabu interviews been popping up on my recommended.

Good to see him still in good health considering the absolutely insane spots this man took part in and what he put his body through.

Someone asked Paul Heyman recently who is the wrestler who should’ve been way more than what they ended up as, and he said Sabu. that he should’ve retired very very rich and a top tier legend for pioneering the high flying high risk style.

I remember on SvR 2008 he was the main legend I wanted to unlock because of his epic theme and because I thought he was Pakistani lol.
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Great pioneer in pro wrestling. His epic theme is still in my playlist and I still remember wanting to use it for my custom 2008-09 SvR character who I gave a skull mask and wanted to add the Sabu shemagh headscarf on him with it haha
 
Sabu was true innovator and trailblazer. For me, a wrestler's legacy is defined by the imprint they leave on the business—and when you look at modern wrestling today, you can see Sabu's fingerprints everywhere. RIP Sabu.
 
Sadly another guy where you wonder how much those chair shots and crazy bumps contributed to the demise. Human beings shouldn't be dying at 60 years of age. They haven't released the cause of death so maybe shouldn't jump to conclusions but I saw a video of his farewell match that happened just weeks ago, and it made me sick to see the type of bumps he was taking even in that match.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Sadly another guy where you wonder how much those chair shots and crazy bumps contributed to the demise. Human beings shouldn't be dying at 60 years of age. They haven't released the cause of death so maybe shouldn't jump to conclusions but I saw a video of his farewell match that happened just weeks ago, and it made me sick to see the type of bumps he was taking even in that match.
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I know which bump you saw, that made me cringe to. I thought at first whoever booked that should be blacklisted for good, then I realised 10 seconds later the person who agreed to that and most likely came up with the spot in the first place was Sabu…..
 
shaz619 said:
I know which bump you saw, that made me cringe to. I thought at first whoever booked that should be blacklisted for good, then I realised 10 seconds later the person who agreed to that and most likely came up with the spot in the first place was Sabu…..
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Yeah as much as I hate Garbage Championship Wrestling, I think Sabu is probably the one who came up with that whole match.

As much as I love wrestling, its kinda sad how much expectations fans end up putting on the wrestlers. Particularly those who wrestle this hardcore style. Even at 60, someone like Sabu is expected to bump like he would when he was 30.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Sabu was true innovator and trailblazer. For me, a wrestler's legacy is defined by the imprint they leave on the business—and when you look at modern wrestling today, you can see Sabu's fingerprints everywhere. RIP Sabu.
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He was the first true independent star and the founding father of the 2000’s boom, he laid the foundations for it. Sabu got over purely from tape trades, he gained notoriety through that and became this mythical cult like figure, it was a flex to have his matches stored away in the cabinet on them video tapes, not for too long because you called your buddies and showed them the mind blowing sh!t that they’d never seen before, that was the moment the IWC was being shaped, the way we talk on forums and how we discussed numerous indie promotions all started with Sabu, he epitomises the heartbeat of the alternate magic we seek and show others how it’s going to take over the world.

Thank You Sabu.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Sabu was true innovator and trailblazer. For me, a wrestler's legacy is defined by the imprint they leave on the business—and when you look at modern wrestling today, you can see Sabu's fingerprints everywhere. RIP Sabu.
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It was a shame WWE didn't push Sabu much when he was with WWE for a brief period.

Sabu should've won the ECW title at least. I also think he could've been a great cruiserweight champion.
 
sweep_shot said:
It was a shame WWE didn't push Sabu much when he was with WWE for a brief period.

Sabu should've won the ECW title at least. I also think he could've been a great cruiserweight champion.
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Physically he was pretty broken down at that point. When you wrestle that kind of style you aren't wrestling for longevity. He wasn't brought in as a top star either. He was brought in as part of the ECW group. Sabu was a fantastic wrestler at his peak though, and some would argue, after his peak too.
 
shaz619 said:
He was the first true independent star and the founding father of the 2000’s boom, he laid the foundations for it. Sabu got over purely from tape trades, he gained notoriety through that and became this mythical cult like figure, it was a flex to have his matches stored away in the cabinet on them video tapes, not for too long because you called your buddies and showed them the mind blowing sh!t that they’d never seen before, that was the moment the IWC was being shaped, the way we talk on forums and how we discussed numerous indie promotions all started with Sabu, he epitomises the heartbeat of the alternate magic we seek and show others how it’s going to take over the world.

Thank You Sabu.
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Fantastic tribute mate.

Side-note, if there is any wrestler who reminds of Sabu a bit, its Sami Zayn. And my guess is that isn't a coincidence. Sami Zayn was probably a big fan of Sabu.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Fantastic tribute mate.

Side-note, if there is any wrestler who reminds of Sabu a bit, its Sami Zayn. And my guess is that isn't a coincidence. Sami Zayn was probably a big fan of Sabu.
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Good spot to be fair, Sami has been vocal recently since the news broke out, Sami and others from the indie circuit would have been massively inspired by Sabu, no doubt about it.

Sab came up with all those crazy spots but he was also solid technically speaking imo
 
Enjoyed Punk's promo, but wasn’t that one of the weirdest, most incoherent brawls? I get that they're trying to portray Seth and Breakker as strong, but when three top babyfaces (including the World Champion) need to come together just to take down two heels—and that too only after they get their hands on steel chairs—its kind of a burial of the babyfaces.
 
Clowns like Logan and Pat being added to WWE makes guys like Seth seem better than they actually are but the truth is Seth is still insanely overrated.
 
I reckon they just about managed to save themselves from embarrassment with Gunther v McAfee AKA Gunther plays with his food. But I think it went on about 4 minutes too long. It didn't make sense for someone like Gunther to just keep beating the stuffing out of him for that long. Pat's offence was both believable and really bad. He took his beating like a government mule, but those punches and kicks were pretty hard to look at.

The most ridiculous thing about the match was Michael Cole getting involved and actively trying to help Pat win the match lol. Which makes him just about the most unprofessional, d-bag announcer on their roster in kayfabe. I have no idea why they suddenly decided to have their little school play between this wrestling match.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I reckon they just about managed to save themselves from embarrassment with Gunther v McAfee AKA Gunther plays with his food. But I think it went on about 4 minutes too long. It didn't make sense for someone like Gunther to just keep beating the stuffing out of him for that long. Pat's offence was both believable and really bad. He took his beating like a government mule, but those punches and kicks were pretty hard to look at.

The most ridiculous thing about the match was Michael Cole getting involved and actively trying to help Pat win the match lol. Which makes him just about the most unprofessional, d-bag announcer on their roster in kayfabe. I have no idea why they suddenly decided to have their little school play between this wrestling match.
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I'd still say Pat was put in a weird spot due to stupid booking. Someone like Rey would have been a better choice logically.
But Pat really did the best he could in this scenario. I can't imagine if Logan was in this position, he'd have done his high spots and tried to put all the spotlight on himself. Think Pat deserves credit here.
 
The funniest thing right now is the WHC at RAW isn't even in the top 3 the most important things going on which tells you about the failure of that stupid decision of having Jey win the title.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Enjoyed Punk's promo, but wasn’t that one of the weirdest, most incoherent brawls? I get that they're trying to portray Seth and Breakker as strong, but when three top babyfaces (including the World Champion) need to come together just to take down two heels—and that too only after they get their hands on steel chairs—its kind of a burial of the babyfaces.
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I liked the AJ vs Balor match. It was classic singles wrestling and WWE needs to put this kind of matches more frequently of live TV. The good thing here is even in defeat Balor got elevated by being competitive against AJ as he's been booked like Curt Hawkins in last 1 year. Hope Balor breaks away from JD and does his own thing now. And AJ gets moved to the mainevent.
I'd love to see another AJ Cena feud.
Drew vs AJ is a feud that I'd love see as well. Don't know why the two haven't crossed paths yet even though they've been in WWE at the same time for 8 years now.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
I liked the AJ vs Balor match. It was classic singles wrestling and WWE needs to put this kind of matches more frequently of live TV. The good thing here is even in defeat Balor got elevated by being competitive against AJ as he's been booked like Curt Hawkins in last 1 year. Hope Balor breaks away from JD and does his own thing now. And AJ gets moved to the mainevent.
I'd love to see another AJ Cena feud.
Drew vs AJ is a feud that I'd love see as well. Don't know why the two haven't crossed paths yet even though they've been in WWE at the same time for 8 years now.
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I enjoyed the match but both these guys have been booked like dirt. Hard to take either seriously as a legitimate contender for anything.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
I'd still say Pat was put in a weird spot due to stupid booking. Someone like Rey would have been a better choice logically.
But Pat really did the best he could in this scenario. I can't imagine if Logan was in this position, he'd have done his high spots and tried to put all the spotlight on himself. Think Pat deserves credit here.
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He was alright. I thought his kicks and punches looked pretty terrible. His selling was very good.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I enjoyed the match but both these guys have been booked like dirt. Hard to take either seriously as a legitimate contender for anything.
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which is why wwe needs a creative refresh after every year or so. The same people at the helm just push the same guys (Seth etc) and keep burying all others.
 
Beautiful tribute by Taz. You can tell how much this friendship meant to him. Taz v Sabu was one of the hallmark rivalries of ECW, and Sabu was kinda integral in launching Taz as the unstoppable killing machine.

It's a bit of a shame that Taz and RVD had to start a GoFundMe for Sabu's family. WWE should have taken care of it. But I guess they are too busy firing wrestlers, jacking up the ticket prices and laughing themselves to the bank.

 
Is it just me or was Sami and Punk's ring-gear last night in the color scheme of the Palestinian flag?

Really nice gesture of solidarity from them if this was actually the case.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
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Cm punk is a true role model man. It all comes full circle because his breakthrough moment was that stone cold promo on Cena where he called him out that he deserves to be the face of the company, and at this point if you want to be someone who says it like it is and stands up for others then in wwe he is that example and is many the ways the face of the company, more than Cody, Jey etc who are pushed due to family ties.
 
Suleiman said:
Cm punk is a true role model man. It all comes full circle because his breakthrough moment was that stone cold promo on Cena where he called him out that he deserves to be the face of the company, and at this point if you want to be someone who says it like it is and stands up for others then in wwe he is that example and is many the ways the face of the company, more than Cody, Jey etc who are pushed due to family ties.
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Absolutely. Only a fool would fail to capitalize on last few good years of his career. But then again, that's Triple H. He would rather use Punk to try to get Rollins over then push Punk at the top. Speaking of which, its kinda amazing how long he has been trying to get Project Rollins off the ground. Really speaks to Rollins' lack of charisma and star-power that barring that short period in 2015 he has rarely ever been interesting to watch. Even now when he is aligned with Paul Heyman and is the leader of this new faction, he doesn't feel revitalized like Roman did when he aligned with Heyman.

As ironic as it sounds, AEW probably used Punk the best. His AEW run still feels legendary, especially when you put it up with his current WWE run, which despite its positives has taken things waaaay too slow.
 
I don't know about you guys but I am just not feeling it with WWE these days. Nothing feels interesting or hot or must-see. As much as I would like to blame The Rock, this has kinda been the trend since they started building for WrestleMania. And now I'm supposed to be excited for Jey Uso & Cody Rhodes v John Cena & Logan Paul? Why?

Triple H's booking has failed to create interest or excitement in the product in any meaningful way. Everything feels predictable and boring. Honestly even AEW is better to watch right now. They had a pretty entertaining PPV the other night with some fantastic matches.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I don't know about you guys but I am just not feeling it with WWE these days. Nothing feels interesting or hot or must-see. As much as I would like to blame The Rock, this has kinda been the trend since they started building for WrestleMania. And now I'm supposed to be excited for Jey Uso & Cody Rhodes v John Cena & Logan Paul? Why?

Triple H's booking has failed to create interest or excitement in the product in any meaningful way. Everything feels predictable and boring. Honestly even AEW is better to watch right now. They had a pretty entertaining PPV the other night with some fantastic matches.
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Rock pulling out of everything due to his feud with H is something you can tell because WWE feels bland again.

Feel while he was working with H even just in the backdrop like toward finale of the main bloodline saga, things were exciting or the whole “sell your soul” shtick before he disappeared

Now that h has the remote control again, things are boring. None of it is believable. Not Jey being world champ, not Logan featuring for world titles. A joke.

Cena run is the only thing that’s interesting, I’ve only tuned in for his and Randy’s feud and won’t tune in until this chawal Logan saga as his tag team partner is done.
 
Suleiman said:
Rock pulling out of everything due to his feud with H is something you can tell because WWE feels bland again.

Feel while he was working with H even just in the backdrop like toward finale of the main bloodline saga, things were exciting or the whole “sell your soul” shtick before he disappeared

Now that h has the remote control again, things are boring. None of it is believable. Not Jey being world champ, not Logan featuring for world titles. A joke.

Cena run is the only thing that’s interesting, I’ve only tuned in for his and Randy’s feud and won’t tune in until this chawal Logan saga as his tag team partner is done.
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Yeah his booking just feels uninspiring and boring. There is no life to it. And this stretch from Rumble to Mania has by far been his worst stretch since taking over.

One thing I have noticed about him is that he is heavily reliant on his stars. When they are out of the picture things fall apart pretty fast because he has done very little to elevate wrestlers in the midcard or other positions of the card

Generally, nothing feels hot or must-see right now. SmackDown in particular has become very tough to get through.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Yeah his booking just feels uninspiring and boring. There is no life to it. And this stretch from Rumble to Mania has by far been his worst stretch since taking over.

One thing I have noticed about him is that he is heavily reliant on his stars. When they are out of the picture things fall apart pretty fast because he has done very little to elevate wrestlers in the midcard or other positions of the card

Generally, nothing feels hot or must-see right now. SmackDown in particular has become very tough to get through.
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This idiot instead of making a mockery out of LA, Chad and Kross could’ve had all 3 close or in the main event scene rn. As well as Uncle Howdy.

Now with the main players of the last few years taking a break he’s left dead in the water. Think I heard this guy tell Jey in the backstage segment behind the scenes im gonna put a rocket on ya 🤡 😂

Remove Cena and no one would be tuning into WWE period.

But yes keep trying to put Seth, Logan and Jey over… when you have far more talent than all 3.
 
Suleiman said:
This idiot instead of making a mockery out of LA, Chad and Kross could’ve had all 3 close or in the main event scene rn. As well as Uncle Howdy.

Now with the main players of the last few years taking a break he’s left dead in the water. Think I heard this guy tell Jey in the backstage segment behind the scenes im gonna put a rocket on ya 🤡 😂

Remove Cena and no one would be tuning into WWE period.

But yes keep trying to put Seth, Logan and Jey over… when you have far more talent than all 3.
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Seth is his little pet project since NXT so you know he will do everything to push him. But atleast Seth can cut it in the ring. The other two being pushed is just nuts. Btw I can't wait to watch that reality series they did with Netflix just so I can see more cringe backstage footage like that.

And it's not like they don't have other guys. If you forget the established stars like Cena, Punk, Orton, Roman, there's Gunther, Drew McIntyre, Sami Zayn who are all good enough to be elevated to the very top level. But they continue to be wasted in unimportant feuds.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Seth is his little pet project since NXT so you know he will do everything to push him. But atleast Seth can cut it in the ring. The other two being pushed is just nuts. Btw I can't wait to watch that reality series they did with Netflix just so I can see more cringe backstage footage like that.

And it's not like they don't have other guys. If you forget the established stars like Cena, Punk, Orton, Roman, there's Gunther, Drew McIntyre, Sami Zayn who are all good enough to be elevated to the very top level. But they continue to be wasted in unimportant feuds.
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At this point, I'd really like WWE to start a 1 hour stream only show called black and gold or Takeover and Trips can be its director/producer/booker etc and he should be just confined to that and he can maybe have Rollins as its face. Trips has only showed he was a good booker for NXT whose shows were infront of a few hundred people and whose performers were 10 year indie vets. He is just good at that.
The main roster booking should be given to someone like HBK or a group of top names. Meanwhile AJ and Punk can run NXT.
Trips has no idea how to generate interest or produce a feud from a scratch that is entertaining. He is just focused on matches and no story or character development or catching the audience by surprise. He is just bland like his matches.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
At this point, I'd really like WWE to start a 1 hour stream only show called black and gold or Takeover and Trips can be its director/producer/booker etc and he should be just confined to that and he can maybe have Rollins as its face. Trips has only showed he was a good booker for NXT whose shows were infront of a few hundred people and whose performers were 10 year indie vets. He is just good at that.
The main roster booking should be given to someone like HBK or a group of top names. Meanwhile AJ and Punk can run NXT.
Trips has no idea how to generate interest or produce a feud from a scratch that is entertaining. He is just focused on matches and no story or character development or catching the audience by surprise. He is just bland like his matches.
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Agreed. Sadly he is only in this position because of his susar.

Have seen many debates on this guy’s ability as a wrestler and how far he would have gone without the wedding ring. Allah knows how that would’ve played out.

But as a booker? no debate. It was a massive responsibility to take on. Vince grew up in the ownership, management, booking business.

You need to be highly talented as a booker and man manager or at least be quick on your feet and innovative with business acumen to be able to lead a pro wrestling company creatively.

This guy has zero ability to do so it seems like.

Once the bloodline avengers end game saga was done, there was nothing for h to coast on anymore and time came to generate something new and he is fumbling.

Cena’s storyline writes for itself as soon as he turned heel, and the success he’s seeing in his final year is down to his own ability. H got nothing to do with it except call up John and say play heel which doesn’t take a genius.
 
Suleiman said:
Agreed. Sadly he is only in this position because of his susar.

Have seen many debates on this guy’s ability as a wrestler and how far he would have gone without the wedding ring. Allah knows how that would’ve played out.

But as a booker? no debate. It was a massive responsibility to take on. Vince grew up in the ownership, management, booking business.

You need to be highly talented as a booker and man manager or at least be quick on your feet and innovative with business acumen to be able to lead a pro wrestling company creatively.

This guy has zero ability to do so it seems like.

Once the bloodline avengers end game saga was done, there was nothing for h to coast on anymore and time came to generate something new and he is fumbling.

Cena’s storyline writes for itself as soon as he turned heel, and the success he’s seeing in his final year is down to his own ability. H got nothing to do with it except call up John and say play heel which doesn’t take a genius.
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Plus you don't need to write stuff for someone like Cena. He can work without a script. Same thing with the likes of Randy, Punk etc.
Trips is only good as a talent relations guy. Booking is not his forte.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
At this point, I'd really like WWE to start a 1 hour stream only show called black and gold or Takeover and Trips can be its director/producer/booker etc and he should be just confined to that and he can maybe have Rollins as its face. Trips has only showed he was a good booker for NXT whose shows were infront of a few hundred people and whose performers were 10 year indie vets. He is just good at that.
The main roster booking should be given to someone like HBK or a group of top names. Meanwhile AJ and Punk can run NXT.
Trips has no idea how to generate interest or produce a feud from a scratch that is entertaining. He is just focused on matches and no story or character development or catching the audience by surprise. He is just bland like his matches.
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And for some reason every match has to be a damn three-way.

His position is different from Vince in that if fans begin to detest the booking, he can be sent home. Because at the end of the day he is working for TKO. We haven't gotten to that point yet but its something I can see happening down the line.
 
Carlito's contract not being renewed either. Such a shame. The TKO regime has wasted no time in letting everyone know they're just another scummy evil soulless corporation.
 
Has to be one of the most pathetic Money in the Bank cards ever. Only match I am looking forward to is the Men's MITB match. Also, giving fans 4 matches on what is essentially a stadium show is a hell of a rip-off.

Logan/Cena v Cody/Jey has all the potential to be absolutely atrocious. And I'm 99% sure it will main-event the show. :facepalm:
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Has to be one of the most pathetic Money in the Bank cards ever. Only match I am looking forward to is the Men's MITB match. Also, giving fans 4 matches on what is essentially a stadium show is a hell of a rip-off.

Logan/Cena v Cody/Jey has all the potential to be absolutely atrocious. And I'm 99% sure it will main-event the show. :facepalm:
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You need 1 highflyer in MITB match for spots. They should have put Phoenix in instead of Penta.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Carlito's contract not being renewed either. Such a shame. The TKO regime has wasted no time in letting everyone know they're just another scummy evil soulless corporation.
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A million times worse then the previous regime, I will die on that hell, I’ve seen enough to see where we are headed from here. I barely tune in apart from select segments, I do watch NXT which is the most polished wrestling programme right now; but Triple Clown can’t let us have nice things and has poached all the big fish, will be getting Ricky Saints to who I was enjoying in his programme with Ethan Page, I am no longer excited above any of these guys moving up.
 
shaz619 said:
A million times worse then the previous regime, I will die on that hell, I’ve seen enough to see where we are headed from here. I barely tune in apart from select segments, I do watch NXT which is the most polished wrestling programme right now; but Triple Clown can’t let us have nice things and has poached all the big fish, will be getting Ricky Saints to who I was enjoying in his programme with Ethan Page, I am no longer excited above any of these guys moving up.
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You know I disagreed with you on this initially but now I feel like you were 100% right. They have done a bunch of things in the past few weeks that has just completely removed the veil. Whether its releasing Truth and Carlito, moving WrestleMania to Vegas (again) after a city had already been awarded the bid on giving us this pathetic excuse for a PLE card on what is supposed to be a stadium show. They have made no qualms about the fact that they are ready to prostitute themselves to anyone and everyone who will pay top dollar.

I am negative on Vince on alot of things but the man valued loyalty. As someone said on Twitter, guys like R-Truth, Kane etc. would have had a job for life under Vince. He also wasn't willing to fleece/price out fans or sell himself and every little piece of advertising they could possibly sell for some money. Now it feels like we are a few months away from this:

20250604_032623.jpg
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
You know I disagreed with you on this initially but now I feel like you were 100% right. They have done a bunch of things in the past few weeks that has just completely removed the veil. Whether its releasing Truth and Carlito, moving WrestleMania to Vegas (again) after a city had already been awarded the bid on giving us this pathetic excuse for a PLE card on what is supposed to be a stadium show. They have made no qualms about the fact that they are ready to prostitute themselves to anyone and everyone who will pay top dollar.

I am negative on Vince on alot of things but the man valued loyalty. As someone said on Twitter, guys like R-Truth, Kane etc. would have had a job for life under Vince. He also wasn't willing to fleece/price out fans or sell himself and every little piece of advertising they could possibly sell for some money. Now it feels like we are a few months away from this:

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Actually this is better :misbah

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shaz619 said:
MVP is holding back.

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He is part of the family. :inti

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@shaz619 Worlds Collide card looks better than MITB. Will probably be half as long too. Feel like watching this show because I'm interested to see this mesh of AAA lucha and NXT/WWE guys. It's a shame our boy Ricky Saints isn't on the card though.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
You know I disagreed with you on this initially but now I feel like you were 100% right. They have done a bunch of things in the past few weeks that has just completely removed the veil. Whether its releasing Truth and Carlito, moving WrestleMania to Vegas (again) after a city had already been awarded the bid on giving us this pathetic excuse for a PLE card on what is supposed to be a stadium show. They have made no qualms about the fact that they are ready to prostitute themselves to anyone and everyone who will pay top dollar.

I am negative on Vince on alot of things but the man valued loyalty. As someone said on Twitter, guys like R-Truth, Kane etc. would have had a job for life under Vince. He also wasn't willing to fleece/price out fans or sell himself and every little piece of advertising they could possibly sell for some money. Now it feels like we are a few months away from this:

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It’s a pretty soul sucking environment, I am not sure how long it will last and if the fans will be heard, the UFC get away with it because it’s a combat sport and with comparisons to Boxing, they can fleece their die hard fans pretty well. In the entertainment business, you need to provide great value and despite these cost cutting tactics and price hikes; on the creative side, there’s a lot to be desired.

H would be good in another admin type role because he has a work ethic, I will give him that, but he doesn’t have a creative bone in his body, is too petty, stubborn and unwilling to ever change his ways; in my opinion he should be the first to be given the boot in his current position.

In an ideal situation, Shawn should be head of creative, but that will never happen due to the schedule as it would interfere with Shawn’s work life balance, he always prioritises his faith to. I think @BunnyRabbit mentioned AJ should lead NXT with Shawn on RAW/SD, great idea really but will never happen.

However, I can see AJ working in NXT alongside Shawn as a co-promoter, perhaps AJ could be groomed to take over from Shawn eventually.

As for the main roster creative; names which come to mind are as follows:

- Paul Heyman; I don’t think he would do it due to his age but he would be ideal, even as a consultant?

- Gave Sapolsky; He is already on the WWE payroll and his vast experience would make him a great fit, just look at some of talent he has helped scout for NXT, these will be seen as ‘home grown’ but I am certain he played a big hand in identifying their potential.

Or perhaps Gabe could work in a lead role with Heyman helping him out, a reverse of their 90’s arrangement.

Ryan Ward is still employed by WWE but he is arguably H’s second man in command, it seems only natural to consider him for a promotion and again, he has great experience.

I don’t like picking wrestlers for these positions due to the natural conflict but if I had to pick one who could do the job effectively in the future, it would be CM Punk; high ring IQ, one of the biggest stars of this era and true student of the game, and he actually does have a bit of experience to because you would know especially how he essentially shaped the vision for Collision and was a lead booker for that program.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
@shaz619 Worlds Collide card looks better than MITB. Will probably be half as long too. Feel like watching this show because I'm interested to see this mesh of AAA lucha and NXT/WWE guys. It's a shame our boy Ricky Saints isn't on the card though.
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I think they have the chance to make El Grande the biggest heel in Mexico, it’s a tantalising prospect, he could be world champion. Ricky is in the middle of an amazing program with Ethan Page who’s work reminds me so much of Christian, very high ring IQ and a great all rounder, but surprised Ricky has not been added to the match, surely they will? I might check Worlds Collide out as well but don’t have high hopes of it due to H’s involvement.

NXT Battleground though was one of the best PPV’s I’ve seen this year and very landmark to with the big change in the main event, it was pretty shocking to see.
 
shaz619 said:
It’s a pretty soul sucking environment, I am not sure how long it will last and if the fans will be heard, the UFC get away with it because it’s a combat sport and with comparisons to Boxing, they can fleece their die hard fans pretty well. In the entertainment business, you need to provide great value and despite these cost cutting tactics and price hikes; on the creative side, there’s a lot to be desired.

H would be good in another admin type role because he has a work ethic, I will give him that, but he doesn’t have a creative bone in his body, is too petty, stubborn and unwilling to ever change his ways; in my opinion he should be the first to be given the boot in his current position.

In an ideal situation, Shawn should be head of creative, but that will never happen due to the schedule as it would interfere with Shawn’s work life balance, he always prioritises his faith to. I think @BunnyRabbit mentioned AJ should lead NXT with Shawn on RAW/SD, great idea really but will never happen.

However, I can see AJ working in NXT alongside Shawn as a co-promoter, perhaps AJ could be groomed to take over from Shawn eventually.

As for the main roster creative; names which come to mind are as follows:

- Paul Heyman; I don’t think he would do it due to his age but he would be ideal, even as a consultant?

- Gave Sapolsky; He is already on the WWE payroll and his vast experience would make him a great fit, just look at some of talent he has helped scout for NXT, these will be seen as ‘home grown’ but I am certain he played a big hand in identifying their potential.

Or perhaps Gabe could work in a lead role with Heyman helping him out, a reverse of their 90’s arrangement.

Ryan Ward is still employed by WWE but he is arguably H’s second man in command, it seems only natural to consider him for a promotion and again, he has great experience.

I don’t like picking wrestlers for these positions due to the natural conflict but if I had to pick one who could do the job effectively in the future, it would be CM Punk; high ring IQ, one of the biggest stars of this era and true student of the game, and he actually does have a bit of experience to because you would know especially how he essentially shaped the vision for Collision and was a lead booker for that program.
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Trips is best suited to the talent relations role he had under Vince.
 
Trips the kanjoos low balling R Truth and a circuit legend and veteran like Carlito while keeping a spoiled brat like Logan who filmed dead in a forest and 5 move Jey Uso.

R Truth and Carlito both used as comic relief when their ceilings as true heel and face roles still relatively unexplored. Look at how fired up Ron got the crowd in his only promo before the Cena match, look at all the comments spamming we want truth in all the raw shorts and videos on Monday after his release

He has so much talent at his disposal but just like his one dimensional career and promos he’s making a mockery of his employees hard work and talents.

I know not everybody will be world champion, I get that, but if you are so stupid, pathetic and such a whore for money that you will put a crap drink like Prime in every camera angle and shove its owner into every main event angle just to squeeze out a few more $$$ then you literally are a clown who deserves zero respect

Go ahead and force yourself into HoF again 🤡
 
TBH. I like AEW. These guys do a lot of unbelievable stuff that WWE cannot even dream of.
AEW feels much more real.
 
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