There was 'something' in shoe of Jadhav's wife: FO responds to Indian criticism of spy meeting [#12]

[Abdullah719]

Statement by the official spokesperson on Shri Kulbhushan Jadhav’s meeting with his family
December 26, 2017

As you are all aware, the mother and wife of Shri Kulbhushan Jadhav met him yesterday in Islamabad. The meeting took place after requests by India for family access.

Prior to the meeting, the two Governments were in touch through diplomatic channels to work out its modalities and format. There were clear understandings between the two sides and the Indian side scrupulously abided by all its commitments.

However, we note with regret that the Pakistani side conducted the meeting in a manner which violated the letter and spirit of our understandings. This included:

i. The Pakistani press was allowed on multiple occasions to approach family members closely, harass and hector them and hurl false and motivated accusations about Shri Jadhav. This was despite a clear agreement that the media would not be allowed close access.

ii. Under the pretext of security precautions, the cultural and religious sensibilities of family members were disregarded. This included removal of mangal sutra, bangles and bindi, as well as a change in attire that was not warranted by security.

iii. The mother of Shri Jadhav was prevented from talking in their mother tongue, although this was clearly the natural medium of communication. She was repeatedly interrupted while doing so and eventually prevented from proceeding further in this regard.

iv. Deputy High Commissioner was initially separated from family members who were taken to the meeting without informing him. The meeting was started without his presence and he could join only after pressing the matter with concerned officials. Even then, he was kept behind an additional partition that did not allow him access to the meeting as agreed.

For some inexplicable reason, despite her repeated requests, the shoes of the wife of Shri Jadhav were not returned to her after the meeting. We would caution against any mischievous intent in this regard.

From the feedback we have received of the meeting, it appears that Shri Jadhav was under considerable stress and speaking in an atmosphere of coercion. Most of his remarks were clearly tutored and designed to perpetuate the false narrative of his alleged activities in Pakistan. His appearance also raises questions of his health and well being.

We also regret that contrary to assurances, the overall atmosphere of the meeting was intimidating insofar as family members were concerned. Family members, however, handled the situation with great courage and fortitude.

The manner in which the meeting was conducted and its aftermath was clearly an attempt to bolster a false and unsubstantiated narrative of Shri Jadhav’s alleged activities. You would all agree that this exercise lacked any credibility.

New Delhi
December 26, 2017

http://mea.gov.in/press-releases.htm?dtl/29239

 

[Syed1]

He is a spy and a prisoner not a hotel guest. We will treat however we deem fit.

 

[Pakpak]

He is a spy and a prisoner not a hotel guest. We will treat however we deem fit.

This. He should have met his family from prison, like all other normal prisoners, instead of meeting them in the FO office.

 

[gkb101277867]

He is a spy and a prisoner not a hotel guest. We will treat however we deem fit.

Whatever you think of him...his mother and sister are innocent and should not be treated badly. I mean stealing shoes?. Come on now

 

[Syed1]

Whatever you think of him...his mother and sister are innocent and should not be treated badly. I mean stealing shoes?. Come on now

Our country our rules. His mother and wife are lucky we allowed them to meet in a respectable manner in the foreign office rather than the filthy jail where the spy is residing.

 

[gkb101277867]

Our country our rules. His mother and wife are lucky we allowed them to meet in a respectable manner in the foreign office rather than the filthy jail where the spy is residing.

Makes sense....in that case steal all the shoes you want

 

[blue_champion]

Our country our rules. His mother and wife are lucky we allowed them to meet in a respectable manner in the foreign office rather than the filthy jail where the spy is residing.

“Your country your rules” that is not exactly a flattering statement coming from a country that doesn’t exactly have a stellar reputation among the international community when it comes to having a track record of of accountability and responsibility.

 

[big_gamer007]

He is a spy and a prisoner not a hotel guest. We will treat however we deem fit.

This. He should have met his family from prison, like all other normal prisoners, instead of meeting them in the FO office.

Shouldn’t have agreed then read all the points they say same thing it wasn’t carried out as agreed.. If you agree something then follow it lee don’t agree to it and do whatever you want other side can only crib now they can complain..

It’s like MOU which was verbal agreement been broken all of you support Pakistani narrative on it so it’s same case here..

 

[Pakpak]

Shouldn’t have agreed then read all the points they say same thing it wasn’t carried out as agreed.. If you agree something then follow it lee don’t agree to it and do whatever you want other side can only crib now they can complain..

It’s like MOU which was verbal agreement been broken all of you support Pakistani narrative on it so it’s same case here..

We made a commitment that his family should meet him, which in the end they did. Comparing it a fraud MOU which was never carried it...yeah, makes perfect sense.

 

[Major]

boo hoo

i;m still ****** at the fact that a spy was allowed to meet his family

Pakistan wont carry out any punishment, they will present this guy in UN and al, and after 30-40 years will be released.

he will be used as a bargaining chip

 

[Major]

Shouldn’t have agreed then read all the points they say same thing it wasn’t carried out as agreed.. If you agree something then follow it lee don’t agree to it and do whatever you want other side can only crib now they can complain..

It’s like MOU which was verbal agreement been broken all of you support Pakistani narrative on it so it’s same case here..

any other language being spoken in would have never been allowed

I hope, morse codes were not passed down from them.

 

[Abdullah719]

There was 'something' in shoe of Jadhav's wife: FO responds to Indian criticism of spy meeting

The Foreign Office (FO) on Tuesday "categorically rejected" criticism by the Indian government of the meeting between Kulbhushan Jadhav and his family members in Islamabad yesterday, saying the shoes of the Indian spy's wife were confiscated on security grounds.

"There was something in the shoe [of Jadhav's wife], FO spokesman Dr Muhammad Faisal told DawnNews, adding that the shoe is being investigated.

The spokesman said the wife, Chetankul, had been provided replacement shoes and all her jewellery was returned to her.

"She acknowledged that she has got back all her stuff, except the shoe," the FO spokesman said.

Dr Faisal was responding to Indian allegations that during the meeting the "cultural and religious sensibilities of family members [Jadhav's mother and wife] were disregarded under the pretext of security precautions".

"This included removal of mangal sutra, bangles and bindi, as well as a change in attire that was not warranted by security," complained India's Ministry of External Affairs (MEA).

It claimed Jadhav's wife's shoes were removed "for some inexplicable reason, [and] despite her repeated requests... not returned to her after the meeting" and added: "We would caution against any mischievous intent in this regard."

But the FO said: "If Indian concerns were serious, the guests or the Indian DHC [deputy high commissioner] should have raised them during the visit, with the media, which was readily available, but at a safe distance, as requested by India."

Saying Pakistan does not wish to indulge in a "meaningless battle of words", the spokesman in a statement said it is a fact that Jadhav's mother "publicly thanked Pakistan for the humanitarian gesture".

"Nothing more needs to be said," he concluded.


Jadhav meeting 'an exercise that lacked any credibility'

India's foreign ministry had earlier in the day roundly criticised the meeting between Jadhav and his family members — arranged by Pakistan as a goodwill gesture — as an 'exercise that lacked any credibility'.

The meeting had been granted by Pakistan to India 21 months after Jadhav's arrest on "humanitarian grounds" and as a gesture of goodwill on Quaid-i-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah's birthday.

However, "We note with regret that the Pakistani side conducted the meeting in a manner which violated the letter and spirit of our understandings," India complained in a statement hours after Jadhav's wife and mother met officials at the MEA in New Delhi, where they were likely debriefed.

Avanti and Chetankul Jadhav also held a three-hour-long meeting with Indian Foreign Minister Sushma Swaraj.

During the trio's meeting — arranged at the Foreign Office in Islamabad — Jadhav had spoken to his wife and mother via an intercom from across a glass screen. Foreign Office officials and Indian Deputy High Commissioner JP Singh had monitored the encounter through another glass screen.

The women had made a stop at the Indian High Commission upon their arrival in Islamabad prior to the meeting with Jadhav.

However, India complained on Tuesday that its envoy "was initially separated from family members who were taken to the meeting without informing him."

"The meeting was started without his [Singh's] presence and he could join only after pressing the matter with concerned officials. Even then, he was kept behind an additional partition that did not allow him access to the meeting as agreed," the statement said.


'Intimidating atmosphere'

India also described "the overall atmosphere of the meeting" as "intimidating insofar as family members were concerned."

Despite a "clear agreement that the media would not be allowed close access" to Avanti and Chetankul, "the Pakistani press was allowed on multiple occasions to approach family members closely, harass and hector them and hurl false and motivated accusations about Jadhav," the MEA alleged.

Jadhav's mother was also prevented from speaking to him in their mother tongue, the MEA complained. "She was repeatedly interrupted while doing so and eventually prevented from proceeding further in this regard."


'Jadhav speaking under coercion'

The MEA also claimed that "from the feedback we have received of the meeting, it appears that Jadhav was under considerable stress and speaking in an atmosphere of coercion."

"Most of his remarks were clearly tutored and designed to perpetuate the false narrative of his alleged activities in Pakistan. His appearance also raises questions of his health and well being," the statement read.

"The manner in which the meeting was conducted and its aftermath was clearly an attempt to bolster a false and unsubstantiated narrative of Jadhav’s alleged activities," the MEA said.

"You would all agree that this exercise lacked any credibility."

The Foreign Office on Monday, in a press briefing after the meeting, had played a pre-recorded video message from Jadhav thanking the Pakistani government for permitting the meeting. It also included a confession from him for his involvement in espionage.

The FO also issued medical reports that showed Jadhav is in good health, and asserted that it was not the Indian spy's last meeting with his family.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1378938

 

[big_gamer007]

We made a commitment that his family should meet him, which in the end they did. Comparing it a fraud MOU which was never carried it...yeah, makes perfect sense.

any other language being spoken in would have never been allowed

I hope, morse codes were not passed down from them.

So you didn’t read the article? Read again it says

1. It was agreed media would not be allowed.
2. The Indian high commissioner not allowe when it was agreed..
My point is don’t agree to these two points if you don’t wanna carry it.. This is exactly same as agreeing to something then breaking the agreement..

Any unbiased neutral person would say the same..

Now regarding removing bangles and not allowed to speak in native language I don’t have any problems with that since that was not agreed and it might be your security policies that any highly sensitive prisoner like Kulbhushan there are security policies which need to be followed..

So yes Pakistan is somewhat in a wrong here..

 

[Pakpak]

So you didn’t read the article? Read again it says

1. It was agreed media would not be allowed.
2. The Indian high commissioner not allowe when it was agreed..
My point is don’t agree to these two points if you don’t wanna carry it.. This is exactly same as agreeing to something then breaking the agreement..

Any unbiased neutral person would say the same..

Now regarding removing bangles and not allowed to speak in native language I don’t have any problems with that since that was not agreed and it might be your security policies that any highly sensitive prisoner like Kulbhushan there are security policies which need to be followed..

So yes Pakistan is somewhat in a wrong here..

Not really. We agreed to a meeting, it happened. The rest is minor nonsense, you'd hardly expect the Indians to thank us.

If India played us in cricket, according to the MOU, but say only played ODIs and not Tests then you'd have a point. Otherwise your analogy is pointless.

I am glad the media was allowed, otherwise we'd not gotten any pictures and Indians would have made more fantastical stories.

 

[Snak3eye5]

Pakistan could at the very least let Jadhav go on humanitarian grounds with a warning atleast since he has wife and kids to look after. After all there is no valid proof that he was a spy. It might also reciprocate good standing with the Indian side that Pakistan took this good step which might allow India to not shun it at the world stage. Heck India might even allow its cricket players back to playing in Pakistan which might get cricket to resume in the country. Pakistan has a chance to make things right here if it chooses to do so which may also definitely start some peaceful dialogue on both sides.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Execute this man and put an end to this charade.

 

[www787]

Pakistan could at the very least let Jadhav go on humanitarian grounds with a warning atleast since he has wife and kids to look after. After all there is no valid proof that he was a spy.
he confessed, what more could be needed?


It might also reciprocate good standing with the Indian side that Pakistan took this good step which might allow India to not shun it at the world stage.
Indian government feed off and need anti-pakistan rhetoric, no good deed from Pakistan side will be appreciated as long as Hardline extremists Hindu party is in power.

Heck India might even allow its cricket players back to playing in Pakistan which might get cricket to resume in the country.
not that important for the government of Pakistan and establishment, so far Pakistan cricket have survived and recently beat the world's richest cricket team in Champions trophy
Pakistan has a chance to make things right here if it chooses to do so which may also definitely start some peaceful dialogue on both sides.right?
let go of someone who has confessed in killing of thousands?

......

 

[Saeed]

Pakistan could at the very least let Jadhav go on humanitarian grounds with a warning atleast since he has wife and kids to look after.

The laborers that get killed in Balochistan due to people like him have wives and kids too. Who is going to look after their kids and elderly parents?

 

[Yossarian]

The FO also issued medical reports that showed Jadhav is in good health, and asserted that it was not the Indian spy's last meeting with his family.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1378938

If the Indian spy's family wish to keep open the possibility of future visits to see Jadhav then they need to be careful what statements they make regarding their visit and treatment by the Pakistanis. They also need to tell the same to the Indian authorities (via the media if need be).

Otherwise, if Pakistan is going to be in a lose-lose situation because Jadhav's family and the Indian authorities are going to badmouth Pakistan when Pakistan denies a visit from Jadhav's family, and also still badmouth Pakistan when it does, out of goodwill, grant them a visit, then Jadhav's family can say goodbye to any further visits.

 

[Snak3eye5]

......

I don't claim to know what happened, but reading some what about it one has to be honest that a lot of things just plain don't add up. Jadhav was a spy and he confessed ? Confessions can be coerced right ? He is a spy then what good did it do Pakistan in advertising it the world. Pakistan could have killed him in secret or tortured him for years to get valuable intel. Heck they could have bribed him and send him back as a double agent. They could have exchanged him for someone on the Indian side. The options are limitless. Regardless Pakistan can play its card right and let him go taking the high road, showing the international community that it's being empathetic. India did once handover 90000 something Pakistani pow's during 1971 war out of good will and nothing in return. Pakistan can reciprocate here and do the same. Just saying.

 

[www787]

I don't claim to know what happened, but reading some what about it one has to be honest that a lot of things just plain don't add up. Jadhav was a spy and he confessed ? Confessions can be coerced right ? He is a spy then what good did it do Pakistan in advertising it the world. Pakistan could have killed him in secret or tortured him for years to get valuable intel. Heck they could have bribed him and send him back as a double agent. They could have exchanged him for someone on the Indian side. The options are limitless. Regardless Pakistan can play its card right and let him go taking the high road, showing the international community that it's being empathetic. India did once handover 90000 something Pakistani pow's during 1971 war out of good will and nothing in return. Pakistan can reciprocate here and do the same. Just saying.

Maybe Pakistan will or maybe not, it is still too early in the this game for Pakistan to do anything.

He confessed multiple times.

 

[Pakistanian]

Execute this man and put an end to this charade.

This.

Get it over with and set a precedent, heck do it on new years.

 

[Syed1]

“Your country your rules” that is not exactly a flattering statement coming from a country that doesn’t exactly have a stellar reputation among the international community when it comes to having a track record of of accountability and responsibility.

Our country our rules

 

[Syed1]

Shouldn’t have agreed then read all the points they say same thing it wasn’t carried out as agreed.. If you agree something then follow it lee don’t agree to it and do whatever you want other side can only crib now they can complain..

It’s like MOU which was verbal agreement been broken all of you support Pakistani narrative on it so it’s same case here..

Well you guys broke MOU we did the same. Why cry?

 

[cricketjoshila]

This.

Get it over with and set a precedent, heck do it on new years.

The ICJ has put a stay on it.


@All the Indians here, a befitting response will be given at the appropriate time.Whether Commander Jadhav lives or dies, either way there will be costs to bear.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The ICJ has put a stay on it.


@All the Indians here, a befitting response will be given at the appropriate time.Whether Commander Jadhav lives or dies, either way there will be costs to bear.

The most India can do is to make a bollywood movie about it. Accept the reality.

 

[big_gamer007]

Not really. We agreed to a meeting, it happened. The rest is minor nonsense, you'd hardly expect the Indians to thank us.

If India played us in cricket, according to the MOU, but say only played ODIs and not Tests then you'd have a point. Otherwise your analogy is pointless.

I am glad the media was allowed, otherwise we'd not gotten any pictures and Indians would have made more fantastical stories.

This was a high profile meeting with two countries whose relations are sour involved.. Every minute detail which was agreed should have been followed, simple things break trust.. Even if Pakistan agreed to something as stupid as giving Bisleri water to the family but provided Kinley water it would have been talked about and can hamper trust..

Like I said if you agree to something do it else don’t agree..

You agreed to the meeting and agreed to certain conditions for the meeting all should have been followed that’s how you high level meetings such as this work.. These are not your simple meetings, it was highly visible and every protocol agreed should have been followed..

 

[big_gamer007]

Well you guys broke MOU we did the same. Why cry?

No one is crying just pointing it out.. You think anyone cries over someone not related to him? Everyone who talks online and fights against Pakistani over Kulbhushan in reality doesn’t care about him enough to do anything apart from just Internet fighting.. If There was an option of setting Kulbhushan Free but in his place you have to go to Pakistani prison doubt there will be many takers..

So childish responses like why cry hardly matters I only speak what I see in reality.. And yes like I said we broke MOU and this is somewhat comparable to that..

 

[Pakpak]

This was a high profile meeting with two countries whose relations are sour involved.. Every minute detail which was agreed should have been followed, simple things break trust.. Even if Pakistan agreed to something as stupid as giving Bisleri water to the family but provided Kinley water it would have been talked about and can hamper trust..

Like I said if you agree to something do it else don’t agree..

You agreed to the meeting and agreed to certain conditions for the meeting all should have been followed that’s how you high level meetings such as this work.. These are not your simple meetings, it was highly visible and every protocol agreed should have been followed..

We did a favor to India to allow a meeting at all. Indians would have whined regardless, which it seems they are doing.

Taking off metals and even shoes sometimes is standard procedure (I can speak off UK) and nothing to cry about. Indians are lucky his mother and wife weren't taken to a jail to meet him like all prisoners. Instead of showing gratitude we are still getting crying and whining.

 

[Yossarian]

This was a high profile meeting with two countries whose relations are sour involved.. Every minute detail which was agreed should have been followed, simple things break trust.. Even if Pakistan agreed to something as stupid as giving Bisleri water to the family but provided Kinley water it would have been talked about and can hamper trust..

Like I said if you agree to something do it else don’t agree..

You agreed to the meeting and agreed to certain conditions for the meeting all should have been followed that’s how you high level meetings such as this work.. These are not your simple meetings, it was highly visible and every protocol agreed should have been followed..

We did a favor to India to allow a meeting at all. Indians would have whined regardless, which it seems they are doing.

Taking off metals and even shoes sometimes is standard procedure (I can speak off UK) and nothing to cry about. Indians are lucky his mother and wife weren't taken to a jail to meet him like all prisoners. Instead of showing gratitude we are still getting crying and whining.

Well it's easy for the Pakistanis to ensure the problem doesn't arise - no more visits for Jadhav's family to come and see him. Problem solved.
Someone should have advised Jadhav's family as such, and they in turn should have been publically praising the Pakistani authorities when they went back home to India. The Pakistanis would then have been beding over backwards to grant them further visists - every week if need be.

The FO also issued medical reports that showed Jadhav is in good health, and asserted that it was not the Indian spy's last meeting with his family.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1378938

 

[MenInG]

Guys stay on topic

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

The ICJ has put a stay on it.


@All the Indians here, a befitting response will be given at the appropriate time.Whether Commander Jadhav lives or dies, either way there will be costs to bear.

Agree Bollywood will make Phantam 2 y that will be some response.

 

[Azzurri]

Did I just read that jadhav should be released so that India might allow its cricket player to play with Pakistan? Are you for real man? I havenever seen such a stupid and brain washed community anywhere in the world

 

[Third_Umpire]

The ICJ has put a stay on it.


@All the Indians here, a befitting response will be given at the appropriate time.Whether Commander Jadhav lives or dies, either way there will be costs to bear.

befitting response to executing a terrorist....what will India do, send more terrorists to Pakistan?

 

[Azzurri]

Just imagine for a second if it was a Pakistani spy caught in India. Your whole media would be all over Pakistan let alone allowing his family to meet him.

 

[big_gamer007]

We did a favor to India to allow a meeting at all. Indians would have whined regardless, which it seems they are doing.

Taking off metals and even shoes sometimes is standard procedure (I can speak off UK) and nothing to cry about. Indians are lucky his mother and wife weren't taken to a jail to meet him like all prisoners. Instead of showing gratitude we are still getting crying and whining.

Well it's easy for the Pakistanis to ensure the problem doesn't arise - no more visits for Jadhav's family to come and see him. Problem solved.
Someone should have advised Jadhav's family as such, and they in turn should have been publically praising the Pakistani authorities when they went back home to India. The Pakistanis would then have been beding over backwards to grant them further visists - every week if need be.

Your whole point of argument is that we allowed his family to visit him so they should be grateful and whatever/however we treat them or break any agreements we did with Indian HC does not matter..

Ultimately where do you draw the line in breaking agreements tomorrow if India breaks Indus River agreement or violates ceasefire agreement then you would say it is unfair.. Point which I am making is very simple if you make an agreement follow it whether it be Pakistan, India or any country.. If Pakistan had not agreed to let Jadhav’s family meet him then that is the Pakistan’s policy and I would not have said anything but since they allowed the meeting and agreed on certain points then follow those points else don’t agree to them..

If you refer to my original post it is only about two points which Pakistan agreed on (as per Indian press release) removing bangles, bindi etc I am not referring to but the ones agreed should have been followed..

It’s ok if Pakistan does not allow the family to meet again that is their choice and no one can force them to.. They allowed his family to meet which is a great gesture by Pakistan..

 

[big_gamer007]

Just imagine for a second if it was a Pakistani spy caught in India. Your whole media would be all over Pakistan let alone allowing his family to meet him.

There have been instances in the past where ISI agents have been caught and media has gone crazy I am not sure if The families were allowed to meet or whether Pakistan actually agreed that they were its citizens or not.. If you are interested you can search what happened in those cases.. I don’t know how Pakistani media portrayed Kulbhushan but when Pakistani spies get caught Indian media goes all guns blazing against Pakistan..

 

[big_gamer007]

Execute this man and put an end to this charade.

Showed your true colours at the end didn’t you? Don’t portray to be a patriotic Indian ever now..

 

[Bewal Express]

There is no doubt that he will be released eventually like the guy in the 80's who claimed that he was innocent and then after his release he confessed his guilt. Our Indian friends are fed propoganda that they are the good guys and we are the evil ones whereas in reality both sides have committed crimes to destabilise the other country. As i stated on many occasions the Kashmir issue could be solved by letting Kashmiris become an independent state guaranteed by the UN which allows both countries to come out of it without losing face.
Ind has close to a billion in absolute poverty and propertionately we probably have the same or higher, just imagine what we could do for our poor with literally the billions to spend on education, water conservation and food security. In the end the biggest enemy of the people of these 2 countries is poverty and only by tackling it could we hope to develop.

 

[big_gamer007]

There is no doubt that he will be released eventually like the guy in the 80's who claimed that he was innocent and then after his release he confessed his guilt. Our Indian friends are fed propoganda that they are the good guys and we are the evil ones whereas in reality both sides have committed crimes to destabilise the other country. As i stated on many occasions the Kashmir issue could be solved by letting Kashmiris become an independent state guaranteed by the UN which allows both countries to come out of it without losing face.
Ind has close to a billion in absolute poverty and propertionately we probably have the same or higher, just imagine what we could do for our poor with literally the billions to spend on education, water conservation and food security. In the end the biggest enemy of the people of these 2 countries is poverty and only by tackling it could we hope to develop.

Kashmir issue is political and no side will want to resolve it.. It keeps Pakistani army relevant and in control, Indian government can use it to portray Pakistan as an enemy state and to hide their own failures divert the attention to a bigger evil “Pakistan”..

People fall for it and and politicians/army on either side use the issue for their own gain.. No one cares about the population and poor.. You are dreaming if you think what you suggested will happen in our lifetime..

Btw close to 1bill in absolute poverty is highly exaggerated figure But I get the gist of your post.

 

[cricketjoshila]

befitting response to executing a terrorist....what will India do, send more terrorists to Pakistan?

World has seen in which country UN sanctioned terrorists are found.

 

[Pakpak]

Your whole point of argument is that we allowed his family to visit him so they should be grateful and whatever/however we treat them or break any agreements we did with Indian HC does not matter..

Ultimately where do you draw the line in breaking agreements tomorrow if India breaks Indus River agreement or violates ceasefire agreement then you would say it is unfair.. Point which I am making is very simple if you make an agreement follow it whether it be Pakistan, India or any country.. If Pakistan had not agreed to let Jadhav’s family meet him then that is the Pakistan’s policy and I would not have said anything but since they allowed the meeting and agreed on certain points then follow those points else don’t agree to them..

If you refer to my original post it is only about two points which Pakistan agreed on (as per Indian press release) removing bangles, bindi etc I am not referring to but the ones agreed should have been followed..

It’s ok if Pakistan does not allow the family to meet again that is their choice and no one can force them to.. They allowed his family to meet which is a great gesture by Pakistan..

Her shoes were taken after a security measure. Which is nothing out of the ordinary. And in prisons strip search even for some visitors is common.

And nothing else was that much of a deal. He gets to see his family, if India is going to cry about it then they can inform the family that they are welcome to not come and visit him.

 

[big_gamer007]

Her shoes were taken after a security measure. Which is nothing out of the ordinary. And in prisons strip search even for some visitors is common.

And nothing else was that much of a deal. He gets to see his family, if India is going to cry about it then they can inform the family that they are welcome to not come and visit him.

Again I am not talking about asking her to remove shoes please read my posts..

I am talking about Indian HC not being allowed to meet as was agreed and the media was supposed to be kept at a distance to protect the mother and wife which again was agreed.. If you didn’t want to allow the Indian HC to meet and didn’t have control over media then should not have agreed.. These are not your normal meetings where me or you go to the other country and face issues this meeting was set up by FO of both countries and certain protocols were supposed to be followed which were missed however minor it may seem to you but protocols being missed in such events where FO is setting up meetings is a huge deal..

If it had happened the other way around and Indian officials were at fault I would say the same thing..

 

[Romali_rotti]

LORD!!!!!!!!!!!

A thread where both Indians and Pakistanis crying like little babies, both of you are a lost causes on this one..!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Yossarian]

Again I am not talking about asking her to remove shoes please read my posts..

I am talking about Indian HC not being allowed to meet as was agreed and the media was supposed to be kept at a distance to protect the mother and wife which again was agreed.. If you didn’t want to allow the Indian HC to meet and didn’t have control over media then should not have agreed.. These are not your normal meetings where me or you go to the other country and face issues this meeting was set up by FO of both countries and certain protocols were supposed to be followed which were missed however minor it may seem to you but protocols being missed in such events where FO is setting up meetings is a huge deal..

If it had happened the other way around and Indian officials were at fault I would say the same thing..

Although I don't blame you for doing so, you're assuming that everything put out by India about the visit is the gospel truth and nothing but the truth, whilst everything the Pakistanis are saying is a blatant lie. Ever considered the possibility that due to it being a high profile political drama, each side will try and portray the other in a negative light?

So put aside for a moment all the propoganda (from both sides) and think in terms of the ground realities for the mother and daughter. Is all of this going to do them any good as regards any further visits? The fact of the matter is that they managed to see and speak to their son/husband.

In my opinion, the best outcome would have been for the Pakistanis to say, "come and visit your son, but as private citizens, on your own. It will be a private visit akin to that for any high security prisoner. No politicians, no Indian High Commission, no media. Take it or leave it"

If the Pakistanis do decide to allow any further visits in the future, it should be on that basis.

 

[big_gamer007]

Although I don't blame you for doing so, you're assuming that everything put out by India about the visit is the gospel truth and nothing but the truth, whilst everything the Pakistanis are saying is a blatant lie. Ever considered the possibility that due to it being a high profile political drama, each side will try and portray the other in a negative light?

So put aside for a moment all the propoganda (from both sides) and think in terms of the ground realities for the mother and daughter. Is all of this going to do them any good as regards any further visits? The fact of the matter is that they managed to see and speak to their son/husband.

In my opinion, the best outcome would have been for the Pakistanis to say, "come and visit your son, but as private citizens, on your own. It will be a private visit akin to that for any high security prisoner. No politicians, no Indian High Commission, no media. Take it or leave it"

If the Pakistanis do decide to allow any further visits in the future, it should be on that basis.

Ofcourse what I am saying holds true only if Indian side of the story is true.. If it is a lie and a political gimmick then my posts have no relevance..

The politics is going on for ages and will continue to happen, people of sub continent are easy to trap.. I don’t think they will be allowed to visit as private citizens the Indian government would want to take credit as this is a high visibility’s case..

 

[MenInG]

https://www.dawn.com/news/1379335/a...anted-in-kulbhushan-wifes-shoes-sushma-swaraj

Indian Foreign Minister Sushma Swaraj on Thursday rejected Pakistan's claim that 'something suspicious' was found in Kulbhushan Jadhav's wife's shoes, terming the allegation "an absurdity beyond measure", India Today reported.

While addressing the Rajya Sabha — the upper house of India's parliament — today, Swaraj said that it was "absurd to suggest there was a mystery chip or camera or recording device planted inside Kulbhushan's wife's shoes."

Earlier this week, Pakistan's Foreign Office (FO) had explained that the shoes of the Indian spy's wife, Chetankul, had been confiscated on security grounds after "something metallic" was found in her shoe. The explanation had followed Indian accusations that the guest had been humiliated by Pakistani authorities who took away her shoes.

Swaraj today also reiterated claims that the trial conducted by Pakistan to convict Jadhav was "farcical" and that his mother and wife were humiliated by Pakistani authorities before and after their meeting with him.

The FO has already rejected these claims, saying: "If Indian concerns were serious, the guests or the Indian DHC [deputy high commissioner] should have raised them during the visit, with the media, which was readily available, but at a safe distance, as requested by India."

Saying Pakistan does not wish to indulge in a "meaningless battle of words", the FO spokesman had said it is a fact that Jadhav's mother "publicly thanked Pakistan for the humanitarian gesture", therefore "nothing more needs to be said."

Convicted Indian spy Kulbhushan Jadhav's mother and wife had been allowed to meet him on "humanitarian grounds" by Pakistan 21 months after Jadhav's arrest and as a gesture of goodwill on Muhammad Ali Jinnah's birthday.

"We note with regret that the Pakistani side conducted the meeting in a manner which violated the letter and spirit of our understandings," India had complained in a statement hours after Jadhav's wife and mother met officials at the Ministry of External Affairs in New Delhi following their visit, triggering a spat between the two neighbouring nuclear powers.

 

[Pakpak]

Again I am not talking about asking her to remove shoes please read my posts..

I am talking about Indian HC not being allowed to meet as was agreed and the media was supposed to be kept at a distance to protect the mother and wife which again was agreed.. If you didn’t want to allow the Indian HC to meet and didn’t have control over media then should not have agreed.. These are not your normal meetings where me or you go to the other country and face issues this meeting was set up by FO of both countries and certain protocols were supposed to be followed which were missed however minor it may seem to you but protocols being missed in such events where FO is setting up meetings is a huge deal..

If it had happened the other way around and Indian officials were at fault I would say the same thing..

The media was kept at a safe distance, according to Pakistani anchors and analysts. The Indian HC was also there, again according to the Pakistanis.

As I said, even if it went perfectly Indians would still claim, you can hardly expect them to show any gratitude.

 

[PakLFC]

Poor Bharatis are crying about the mother and spouse of a terrorist being mistreated or what! This coming from a people that charges a supposed Pakistani ISI spy pigeon and feels there could be something in balloons that cross the border!! This terrorist has been treated much better in Pak then ordinary criminals behind bars are in both countries. Other then wiping off the "sindoor" from the ladies foreheads that was unneeded everything else was above board. If the security people had questions about their clothes and accessories then they reserve the right to have them removed. Indian media is making silly stories up as if we should be treating the mother and spouse of their terrorist as VIP guests! Understandably, as Pakistanis don't understand Marathi they were told to speak in a common language! I got news for Bharatis that your terrorist is in Pak custody and we will treat him like we see fit so deal with it. Often prison guards disallow visitors from wearing jewellery which was why the ladies were asked to remove the "mangalsutra". No matter how he is treated the neighbour will make a fuss about every Little thing just like they are insisting for this terrorist to be innocent. If released, the first thing he would do in India would be to boast about killing innocent Pakistanis. Kulbushan must die in Pakistan, let India and it's people beat their chest and spew venom in frustration like they did when another terrorist Sarbjit met his end in Pak, although I disagree with how he was murdered. Later they can make another flop movie like "Sarbjit" on Yadav as well.

 

[Syed1]

Apparently there was a mic or recording device in the shoes.

 

[Syed1]

Let it be perfectly clear to the whining Indians here that the family of the spy dog was visiting Pakistan and hence it is totally our prerogative to decide how we treat them.


Keep whining and this will be the first and last visit of the family.

 

[PakLFC]

Let it be perfectly clear to the whining Indians here that the family of the spy dog was visiting Pakistan and hence it is totally our prerogative to decide how we treat them.


Keep whining and this will be the first and last visit of the family.

See Indian's think they should be treated as being special human beings. That is the virus in their minds that can not be removed, ever. Such is the brainwashing and Pak hatred by their media that their people have no grasp of reality. Bharatis refuse to accept RAW terrorism in Pakistan through the likes of Yadav even when they are caught red handed. They believe their should be one rule for them and their terrorists and another for the "evil Pakistanis". They only are only obsessed with Hafiz Saeed who our courts have found innocent, that is all that matters. We do not follow Indian courts or their dictations. This makes seeing them squeak helplessly over Yadav even sweeter.

 

[PakLFC]

India and it's people need to clearly understand one thing. Pakistan and it's people are not answerable to you. We will make sure that Yadav is punished for his crimes against Pakistanis. Rok sakte ho to rok lo!

 

[PakLFC]

I tell you that if India had Hafiz Saeed they would be treating him much worse then we are Yadav and they know it! These attempts to be victims of terrorism does not wash a minute with a Pakistani like me.

 

[asfandyar]

To the Indian posters here: how will criticism on Pakistan's treatment of his family help in getting Hussain Mubarak Patel released?

 

[asfandyar]

India and it's people need to clearly understand one thing. Pakistan and it's people are not answerable to you. We will make sure that Yadav is punished for his crimes against Pakistanis. Rok sakte ho to rok lo!

How will you make that sure? What you say or do has absolutely no bearing on what the Government / Establishment does. Unless you are a big-shot beaureucrat?

The jingoism on both sides of the border and the delusion that the common man has the power to make decisions is appalling.

 

[PakLFC]

How will you make that sure? What you say or do has absolutely no bearing on what the Government / Establishment does. Unless you are a big-shot beaureucrat?

The jingoism on both sides of the border and the delusion that the common man has the power to make decisions is appalling.

What is your point here? We do not have to explain to India and it's people that Yadav is a terrorist when we have enough evidence. Well from what I am seeing the government is not really caring much about what India thinks about the whole thing. Yadav is in our custody and will stay that way no matter how much Indian's scream

 

[asfandyar]

What is your point here? We do not have to explain to India and it's people that Yadav is a terrorist when we have enough evidence. Well from what I am seeing the government is not really caring much about what India thinks about the whole thing. Yadav is in our custody and will stay that way no matter how much Indian's scream

You don't have to explain to anyone mate. Just stop using the word "We" to denote patriotism and affiliation to a country, as whatever you say or do on this forum, or whatever your thoughts might be, the country's institution will do what the top people in the room decide, and you are nowhere near that level.

There is no such thing as a country or nation. Only a handful of people who exploit heightened sense of patriotism in individuals like you to control the masses.

With all that rant, let me come back to the topic.

For peace to prosper, I think Pakistan and India should set some baseline rules:

1. Each country should accept the decisions of legal institutions in the other country. If we disregard this, Ajmal Qassab's court trial can be rendered null and void by Pakistan on grounds that it was passed by courts that consider Kashmir part of India, and hence are incapable of dispensing justice. India is currently rejecting Hussain Mubarak's trial by military courts as according to them, military courts are not actual courts. If we keep on ignorantly rejecting the counter-narrative, this has an undesirable side-effect of setting loose someone who may potentially be involved in killing innocents.

2. Terrorism should be condemned without the flavor of jingoism. As such, Hafiz Saeed and Kulbhushan Yadav should be condemned by both countries (even if used by clandestine purposes).

3. The efforts that a country is making should be judged by its goodwill gestures, without the associated paranoia. At the expense of sounding biased, Pakistan is currently ahead in this regard as they want to resume cricket, setup Jadhav's meeting, set free 150 fishermen after the meeting. India also used to give medical visas and set free individuals who inadvertently crossed the LOC, but recently, Shushma Swaraj has put a hold on those visas (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[PakLFC]

You don't have to explain to anyone mate. Just stop using the word "We" to denote patriotism and affiliation to a country, as whatever you say or do on this forum, or whatever your thoughts might be, the country's institution will do what the top people in the room decide, and you are nowhere near that level.

There is no such thing as a country or nation. Only a handful of people who exploit heightened sense of patriotism in individuals like you to control the masses.

With all that rant, let me come back to the topic.

For peace to prosper, I think Pakistan and India should set some baseline rules:

1. Each country should accept the decisions of legal institutions in the other country. If we disregard this, Ajmal Qassab's court trial can be rendered null and void by Pakistan on grounds that it was passed by courts that consider Kashmir part of India, and hence are incapable of dispensing justice. India is currently rejecting Hussain Mubarak's trial by military courts as according to them, military courts are not actual courts. If we keep on ignorantly rejecting the counter-narrative, this has an undesirable side-effect of setting loose someone who may potentially be involved in killing innocents.

2. Terrorism should be condemned without the flavor of jingoism. As such, Hafiz Saeed and Kulbhushan Yadav should be condemned by both countries (even if used by clandestine purposes).

3. The efforts that a country is making should be judged by its goodwill gestures, without the associated paranoia. At the expense of sounding biased, Pakistan is currently ahead in this regard as they want to resume cricket, setup Jadhav's meeting, set free 150 fishermen after the meeting. India also used to give medical visas and set free individuals who inadvertently crossed the LOC, but recently, Shushma Swaraj has put a hold on those visas (correct me if I'm wrong).

"We" does not refer to you but those who agree with me oof which there will be many. You seem unable to understand that the government seems to agree with me not you! I don't see them explaining anything to the neighbours.
"Each country should accept the decisions of legal institutions in the other country" as well as the courts decision which has been made that Yadav is guilty.

Ajmal in my view was not a Pakistani no matter how much India insist. They had every right to hang him after what he did, I have no complaints about that as the crime took place in India. Despite Pak pleading to interrogate him the Indian's refused us permission. I wonder why? Hafiz is not a terrorist just because India says so. He supports the Kashmir cause but has never made any hate speeches against Hindu people.

Understand that no country should punish anyone just to please the neighbour. This is where the courts come in, there decision has to be respected even if the perpetrator of the crime is from another country. I don't know if you are Indian or Pakistan however you are not an iota to tell or lecture Pak or any court what decision they should make. They found Hafiz innocent and Yadav guilty, end off. The Indian courts also rightfully found Ajmal guilty as well, I have no problem with that. You can not compromise a country's honour for a silly ball-bat game, it has been ages since Pak mentioned any continuation of Cricketing ties.

If SS wants to end medical visa's then there is nothing that Pak can do about it. We are not forcing her to ggive them.

 

[Abdullah719]

'Indian diplomat yelled at my mother,' says spy Kulbhushan in new video

Indian spy Kulbhushan Jadhav, in a video released by the Foreign Office (FO) on Thursday, said he "saw fear" in the eyes of his mother and wife when he met them in Islamabad on December 25, 2017, adding that an Indian diplomat accompanying them was "yelling at them".

"The Indian person or diplomat accompanying my mother and wife started yelling at them as soon as they stepped out of the meeting," said Jadhav in the video, which was played during a weekly press briefing at the FO.

Jadhav's Christmas meeting with his family in Islamabad was widely criticised in the Indian media. Indian officials had claimed that the spy's mother and wife were humiliated by Pakistani authorities before and after their meeting with him.

"I have something very important to say here to the Indian people, the government and the Indian navy: I am a commissioned officer in the Indian Navy — my commission is not over," said Jadhav in the video, adding that his family "was threatened". "I saw fear in the eyes of my mother and wife — why should there be fear? What all has happened has happened."

"This gesture was a positive one so that she feels happy, I feel happy — and then there's this person standing outside and yelling at her?"

He assured viewers that he had "not been subjected to any sort of torture in Pakistan".

In the video, Jadhav said that his mother was "very happy" to see him "in a good state".

"She said, 'I'm feeling very relaxed after seeing you'."

"We, India and Pakistan, are supposed to end our enmity and subsequently, further our relationship."

FO Spokesperson Dr Muhammad Faisal during the briefing said it was "sad" that Pakistanis were kept from visiting India for the urs of Khawaja Nizamuddin Aulia after New Delhi postponed the issuance of visas to 192 Pakistani pilgrims who wished to attend the urs from Jan 1-8.

Dr Faisal also claimed that the Indian blind cricket team was not granted visas to travel to Pakistan by Delhi.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1380738/i...at-my-mother-says-spy-kulbhushan-in-new-video

 

[Syed1]

Bhai jo hum bolien woh "propaganda" aur jo woh bolain woh naazil howi wi sachayi...

 

[sshakir411]

LOL. Indians will cook up anything...stealing shoes....seriously? What a joke. Goes to show what these people are fed on that they'll believe anything pulled out of someones rear. This Jhadav guy should have been executed months ago and family should have never been allowed to visit.

 

[MenInG]

ISLAMABAD: Indian spy Kulbhushan Jadhav, who was last year convicted and sentenced to death by a military tribunal for spying, is now undergoing trial on terrorism and sabotage charges, an official told Dawn on Monday.

The Pakistan government has, meanwhile, on a number of occasions sought access to 13 Indian officials to ascertain information in the Jadhav case — a fact that is supposedly also mentioned in the counter-memorial submitted at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) by Pakistan. But New Delhi has remained stubbornly uncooperative.

The official explained that Jadhav has multiple cases against him in which he had been indicted on terror- and sabotage-related charges. The cases were progressing, he said, emphasising the one relating to spying had only concluded.

Jadhav was captured by Pakistani security forces on March 3, 2016, in Balochistan. He was in April last year sentenced to death by a Field General Court Martial (FGCM) after being found guilty of espionage under Section 59 of the Pakistan Army Act (PAA), 1952, and Section 3 of the Official Secrets Act of 1923.

Pakistan seeks access to 13 Indian officials to ascertain information in the case, but New Delhi remains uncooperative

His appeals against the conviction have been rejected by the military app*ellate court and his mercy petition is lying with Army Chief Gen Qamar Bajwa.

About the access to 13 Indian officials, the source said, multiple requests had been made to India.

A source in New Delhi, meanwhile, disclosed that the officials whom Pakistan wanted to access included National Security Adviser Ajit Doval and a former RAW chief for their involvement in recruiting and directing Jadhav’s activities. Others that Pakistan wants to access include intelligence operatives, bankers and passport officials.

The Pakistani source would not disclose the names of the 13 Indian officials that the government wants to quiz. He, however, said: “We want to reach Jadhav’s handlers.”

Besides, Pakistan has sought information about his Navy service file, bank record of his pension payment (if there is one as India had been claiming that he was a retired officer), and issuance of the passport in the name of Mubarak Hussain Patel.

Pakistani officials want to know how the passport in the name of Patel was issued and whether it was original or fake. “We have asked if the passport is fake (then) how he exited Mumbai and Delhi airports 18 times,” the source said.

Particulars of Jadhav’s properties in Mumbai, Pune and other parts of Maharashtra, which he had acquired with the alias Hussain Mubarak Patel had also been demanded, the source said.

The ICJ is currently hearing an Indian petition challenging Pakistan’s refusal to grant consular access to the spy. Memorial (by India) and counter-memorial (by Pakistan) have been submitted. The oral arguments are yet to commence as the court has allowed further written pleadings in the case by India till April 17, 2018, and a rejoinder by Pakistan till July 17. The world court had while ordering provisional measures in the case last May restrained the Pakistan government from executing him till it decides the case.

The Foreign Office on Dec 25 hosted a meeting between Jadhav and his mother and wife. The meeting held as a goodwill gesture ended in a diplomatic spat between the two countries over the security checks Jadhav’s mother and wife underwent and the language restrictions during the meeting.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1387502

 

[MenInG]

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan is going to file a second counter-memorial on July 17 in the International Court of Justice (ICJ) on the conviction of Indian spy Kulbhushan Jadhav.

On January 23, the ICJ gave a timeline to both Pakistan and India for filing another round of memorials in the case.

Pakistan’s top attorney Khawar Qureshi had briefed Prime Minister Nasirul Mulk last week, sources told The Express Tribune. Attorney General for Pakistan Khalid Javed Khan and other senior officials also attended the meeting. Earlier, India on April 17 submitted second memorial in ICJ. It is learnt that Khawar Qureshi has drafted the counter-memorial.

Sources also told that after the submission of second counter memorial, the ICJ will fix the matter for hearing, which is likely to take place next year.

India submits reply to ICJ in Jadhav case

A senior lawyer, who has expertise in international litigations, believes that there is no chance of hearing the case in the on-going year. Even the hearing of other matters has already been fixed until March/April next year, therefore, Kulbhushan Jadhav case will be listed in summer next year, he added.

While submitting first counter-memorial in the ICJ on December 13 last year, Pakistan rejected the Indian objection of not giving consular access to Jadhav saying that the provision of such access under the Vienna Convention is only for legitimate visitors and not spies.

Pakistan said that since India did not deny that Jadhav was travelling with an assumed Muslim name, they have no case to plead. India has repeatedly sought consular access to Jadhav but Pakistan has turned down its requests, citing a bilateral accord that does not permit such access to spies.

However, on December 25, Islamabad allowed Jadhav’s mother and wife to meet with him on purely humanitarian grounds.

Pakistan stated in the memorial that India did not explain how a serving naval commander, operating under India’s spy agency – Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) – was travelling under an assumed name. This leads to only one conclusion, that India seeks consular access to the information he [Jadhav] had gathered, it added.

India claims nabbing another ‘Pakistani spy pigeon’

It also stated that since Jadhav was on active duty, it is obvious that he was a spy sent on a special mission. “Only a state that adheres to legitimate actions can request the court to intervene in a matter between two states. A state which does not come with clean hands cannot get any relief,” Pakistan contended.

Pakistan further said that sending Jadhav for espionage and funding terrorist activities were some of the reasons that disentitle India from invoking the jurisdiction of the ICJ.

“Giving false identity to Kulbhushan, sending him for espionage and funding of terrorists activities are all some of the reasons which disentitle India from invoking the jurisdiction of the ICJ,” said the counter memorial.

On September 13 last year, India submitted a 22-page memorandum wherein it objected to Jadhav being tried by a military court in Pakistan. India had contended that Jadhav’s trial should have been conducted by a civilian court and that Pakistan was bound to give him consular access.

The ICJ on May 18 last year halted the execution of Jadhav, who was sentenced to death by a military court on April 10 after being convicted on charges of terrorism and espionage. Jadhav alias Hussain Mubarak Patel was apprehended on March 3 2016, after he illegally crossed into Pakistan via Iran border.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1755704/1-pakistan-file-counter-memorial-july-17-icj/