Nathan Lyon is on a par with Shane Warne ? I've heard everything now.
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This is New Zealand's greatest pace attack of all-time
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Nathan Lyon is on a par with Shane Warne ? I've heard everything now.
Thunderbolt14
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I was more surprised by Cummins being better than McGrath
jeeteshssaxena
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Mcgrath is the Goat bowler but
Cummins record at this stage is comparable to Mcgrath(actually better) , so as long as he is performing on the same level we can't deny that he is on the path to become an ATG.
Hazelwood is inferior to Gillespie but not by much, the gap between them can be considered similar to the gap between Starc and lee in tests. So evens stevens on the fast bowling front.Or maybe slightly tilted towards the former based on Mcgrath's longevity
Warne>>>>>Lyon no doubt about it.
This Australian attack is probably their second best (post 1970, don't care about cricket before that).
I know some will say lillee, Thomson were better but they won't have the statistics to prove that which seals it for me.
Overall
1.Mcgrath warne lee dizzie
2.cummins, Hazelwood starc lyon
3.Lille,Thomson,(any one of pascoe, hogg or some unknown spinner)
4.Harris,Johnson,siddle.
5.Mcdermott, hughes, reiffel
Cummins record at this stage is comparable to Mcgrath(actually better) , so as long as he is performing on the same level we can't deny that he is on the path to become an ATG.
Hazelwood is inferior to Gillespie but not by much, the gap between them can be considered similar to the gap between Starc and lee in tests. So evens stevens on the fast bowling front.Or maybe slightly tilted towards the former based on Mcgrath's longevity
Warne>>>>>Lyon no doubt about it.
This Australian attack is probably their second best (post 1970, don't care about cricket before that).
I know some will say lillee, Thomson were better but they won't have the statistics to prove that which seals it for me.
Overall
1.Mcgrath warne lee dizzie
2.cummins, Hazelwood starc lyon
3.Lille,Thomson,(any one of pascoe, hogg or some unknown spinner)
4.Harris,Johnson,siddle.
5.Mcdermott, hughes, reiffel
This is quite a good post and I agree with this largely though with Mcgrath and Cummins I feel the difference is bigger then what the stats show. Pigeon I believe is the biggest match winner of all time and the way he would bully the opposition main batsman in a series on numerous occasion and decide the course of the series is something one can not not see just in stats and has to watch him in action to realize how big a role that played in Australian domination. Cummins I still feel can get tamed quite often by the opposition main threat.
Thing is we've had them in Oz a few times. Boult never produces here really. Southee has had the odd good session when conditions suited, but struggled overall, the numbers aren't great. Wagner has just about held his own, his style translates well over here with the older ball but he tends to get his wickets late and have 4/120 or 5/150 when the side has 450 & he was 0/80 at one stage.
Jamieson is exciting. No idea how he'll go overseas but he looks like he has all the ingredients. If he is the X factor that allows the others to click then he'll go down alongside Cairns (who I rate highly) & Hadlee.
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Sir Richard Hadlee can see parallels between the Black Caps’ in-form test pace attack and the great West Indies fast bowling unit of the 1970s and 80s.
Senior new ball duo Trent Boult and Tim Southee have been integral to New Zealand's dominant test form, with the tireless Neil Wagner and rising star Kyle Jamieson helping form a lethal combination.
New Zealand crushed the West Indies 2-0 to make it 15 tests unbeaten and seven straight series wins at home for the Black Caps since March 2017.
The series win saw them draw level with Australia on 116 points on the International Cricket Council’s ranking system – putting them in uncharted territory.
Cricket legend Hadlee – New Zealand's greatest cricketer – said it was a special time for the New Zealand test side, who are chasing a spot in the World Test Championship final at Lord’s in June.
Boult, Southee, Wagner, and Jamieson combined for 37 of the 38 wickets against the West Indies with medium-pacer Daryl Mitchell capturing the other.
The Black Caps’ frontline test quartet don’t have the express pace or intimidation factor of the West Indies’ star-studded bowling lineup of the 70s or 80s.
There was a similarity in the fact they were relentless at putting the opposition batsmen under pressure, Hadlee said. Just when batsmen thought they had survived Boult and Southee’s spells, a fresh Wagner and Jamieson then posed problems – providing no let-up.
“It sort of reminds me of the West Indies’ pace attack with the [Michael] Holding, [Joel] Garner, [Colin] Croft, [Andy] Roberts, [Malcolm] Marshall combination,” Hadlee told Stuff.
“If it wasn’t a bowler one day getting a share of the wickets, it was always someone else, but overall they were doing the job and that's knocking over teams and winning games and winning series. There's no respite.”
Sir Richard Hadlee (left) and deputy prime minister Grant Robertson pose before playing the first ball under lights at Christchurch's Hagley Oval on Tuesday.
Boult and Southee have combined for 568 test wickets and are New Zealand's most successful new ball test duo. Add in the lion-hearted Wagner, who has been a reliable performer over his 50-test career, and Jamieson, who has made a dream start to test cricket, Hadlee said it was demanding for batsmen, especially in New Zealand conditions.
“The four-pronged pace attack is outstanding and they complement each other with different skillsets, so they’re all hunting together as a pack.
“The skillsets are all very different. You've got right-arm swing, you’ve got left-arm swing, you’ve got left-arm pace and bounce. You've got a guy, who's about six-foot-fifteen (Jamieson) bouncing the ball and swinging it. It's a wonderful combination.”
Southee and Boult will go down as Black Caps' greats, but they have struggled against the benchmark of Australia in test cricket. Their numbers against Australia are well down on their test average mark.
Tim Southee and Trent Boult have spearheaded the New Zealand test pace attack over the past decade.
Southee averages 28.58 in tests, but 41.62 against Australia, while it's a similar story for Boult. He has a test average of 27.96, but 41.69 from seven tests against Australia.
New Zealand have only won one test against Australia during Boult and Southee’s careers in 2011 in Hobart – which was Boult's test debut.
The challenge for the Black Caps' test side in the coming years was to not just be outstanding in New Zealand conditions, but win regularly overseas and topple Australia in tests, Hadlee said.
Hadlee won six tests against Australia during his career, drawing eight, and losing nine.
“This team is yet to do that. If they can, it puts it all together as a team of fine ability.”
Hadlee was highly impressed by Jamieson’s start to test cricket, bursting onto the international scene with four wickets on debut against India at the Basin Reserve in February.
While it had been a brilliant beginning for Jamieson, Hadlee warned he would have to deal with increased scrutiny and scouting from opposition sides as time went on. The Black Caps would also need to be careful with how he was managed across the three formats.
“He's had a lot of good coaches working with him, but now he's got the fitness and technique and the skillset and nobody has seen him before.
“He's bowling the inswinger, he's bowling the outswinger. He’s getting the ball to bounce and if the pitches aren't even in bounce that's when they're going to get caught on the crease."
AT A GLANCE:
New Zealand frontline quicks in test cricket since start of 2018:
Tim Southee: 88 wickets at 21.8
Trent Boult: 72 wickets at 26.31
Neil Wagner: 71 wickets at 23.19
Kyle Jamieson: 20 wickets at 14.55
Senior new ball duo Trent Boult and Tim Southee have been integral to New Zealand's dominant test form, with the tireless Neil Wagner and rising star Kyle Jamieson helping form a lethal combination.
New Zealand crushed the West Indies 2-0 to make it 15 tests unbeaten and seven straight series wins at home for the Black Caps since March 2017.
The series win saw them draw level with Australia on 116 points on the International Cricket Council’s ranking system – putting them in uncharted territory.
Cricket legend Hadlee – New Zealand's greatest cricketer – said it was a special time for the New Zealand test side, who are chasing a spot in the World Test Championship final at Lord’s in June.
Boult, Southee, Wagner, and Jamieson combined for 37 of the 38 wickets against the West Indies with medium-pacer Daryl Mitchell capturing the other.
The Black Caps’ frontline test quartet don’t have the express pace or intimidation factor of the West Indies’ star-studded bowling lineup of the 70s or 80s.
There was a similarity in the fact they were relentless at putting the opposition batsmen under pressure, Hadlee said. Just when batsmen thought they had survived Boult and Southee’s spells, a fresh Wagner and Jamieson then posed problems – providing no let-up.
“It sort of reminds me of the West Indies’ pace attack with the [Michael] Holding, [Joel] Garner, [Colin] Croft, [Andy] Roberts, [Malcolm] Marshall combination,” Hadlee told Stuff.
“If it wasn’t a bowler one day getting a share of the wickets, it was always someone else, but overall they were doing the job and that's knocking over teams and winning games and winning series. There's no respite.”
Sir Richard Hadlee (left) and deputy prime minister Grant Robertson pose before playing the first ball under lights at Christchurch's Hagley Oval on Tuesday.
Boult and Southee have combined for 568 test wickets and are New Zealand's most successful new ball test duo. Add in the lion-hearted Wagner, who has been a reliable performer over his 50-test career, and Jamieson, who has made a dream start to test cricket, Hadlee said it was demanding for batsmen, especially in New Zealand conditions.
“The four-pronged pace attack is outstanding and they complement each other with different skillsets, so they’re all hunting together as a pack.
“The skillsets are all very different. You've got right-arm swing, you’ve got left-arm swing, you’ve got left-arm pace and bounce. You've got a guy, who's about six-foot-fifteen (Jamieson) bouncing the ball and swinging it. It's a wonderful combination.”
Southee and Boult will go down as Black Caps' greats, but they have struggled against the benchmark of Australia in test cricket. Their numbers against Australia are well down on their test average mark.
Tim Southee and Trent Boult have spearheaded the New Zealand test pace attack over the past decade.
Southee averages 28.58 in tests, but 41.62 against Australia, while it's a similar story for Boult. He has a test average of 27.96, but 41.69 from seven tests against Australia.
New Zealand have only won one test against Australia during Boult and Southee’s careers in 2011 in Hobart – which was Boult's test debut.
The challenge for the Black Caps' test side in the coming years was to not just be outstanding in New Zealand conditions, but win regularly overseas and topple Australia in tests, Hadlee said.
Hadlee won six tests against Australia during his career, drawing eight, and losing nine.
“This team is yet to do that. If they can, it puts it all together as a team of fine ability.”
Hadlee was highly impressed by Jamieson’s start to test cricket, bursting onto the international scene with four wickets on debut against India at the Basin Reserve in February.
While it had been a brilliant beginning for Jamieson, Hadlee warned he would have to deal with increased scrutiny and scouting from opposition sides as time went on. The Black Caps would also need to be careful with how he was managed across the three formats.
“He's had a lot of good coaches working with him, but now he's got the fitness and technique and the skillset and nobody has seen him before.
“He's bowling the inswinger, he's bowling the outswinger. He’s getting the ball to bounce and if the pitches aren't even in bounce that's when they're going to get caught on the crease."
AT A GLANCE:
New Zealand frontline quicks in test cricket since start of 2018:
Tim Southee: 88 wickets at 21.8
Trent Boult: 72 wickets at 26.31
Neil Wagner: 71 wickets at 23.19
Kyle Jamieson: 20 wickets at 14.55
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