Those who live outside Pakistan - Would you move back there if you could?

[Saj]

The question and basis of the discussion is in the title.

For those of you out there living outside Pakistan, would you move back there if you could?

If not, why not?

 

[Abdul]

Nope. Why would I want to live in a third world country? The western environment is completely different and not to mention the lifestyle which is quite luxurious.

I would go back for meeting relatives who live there etc. but moving back permanently is out of contention.

 

[sjahmed23]

Yes. If I am offered a good and stable job and security situation continues to improve in Karachi. Why? because most of my family is in Pakistan and living abroad with no relatives or friends is very difficult, you have to make unbelievable amounts of sacrifices that money can never repay.

 

[Noman]

I thougt about Living in Pakistan 2 years ago. BBut was in Pakistan in Nov 2016 Lahore. I have decided I Will never go to Pakistan again for Vacation. Only for shaadi or business. Pakistan is really dirty country. No future for Young People if you Do NOT know The right People or are NOT Rich god bless you. Living in West We have a better Health Care and better life style Here . Everything is better in The West. Would be interesting to hear from someone WHO Went bacl to Pak and is enjoying it.

 

[Gunner786]

Yes.
But depends on income.

 

[LegCutter]

A definitive no. My quality of life is much higher right now in the US. Several key factors:

Security: NYC isn't generally considered safe but I have never had to actively worry about my cell phone getting snatched while walking down a street at night; whereas in Pakistan, it occupied a significant portion of my mental consciousness to try to keep my cell phone out of sight, be vigilante when on public transport etc. This is the single biggest reason that I prefer NYC.


Electricity: Loadshedding was a nuisance; ruined so many electrical appliances. I had an auto-generator back when I was in Pakistan so I didnt have to sit in darkness/heat but it was still another thing to be wary about. I just simply dont have to worry about it here.

There were other factors too. The corruption in day-to-day life when dealing with any chaperone or government official; MQM strikes shutting the city down; only a few off the top of my head.

America has it's share of it's problems too; some of them quite major [healthcare is a big one]. It is not even close to a utopia but all things considered, it's just a better quality of life for me and my family here.

 

[blackanhyellow]

Security issues, apart from terrorism there is other crime as well. All countries have crime, but in Pakistan there is a freehand.

Pollution and litter.

Bleak future for kids, with poverty, unemployment, poor education/healthcare, etc...

Corruption. Its hard to live honestly in Pakistan. I do not want to pay bribes to get simple things done in a timely manner. In developed countries I can live an honest life.

In Canada, women can take the bus to get to universities and are not harassed. Not saying it doesn't happen at all, but far less frequently than in South Asia.

 

[Mamoon]

Some very pathetic posts in this thread. Disappointed but not surprised. Pakistan doesn't need you either.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Some very pathetic posts in this thread. Disappointed but not surprised. Pakistan doesn't need you either.

Why would any sane person leave Europe or North America to return to Pakistan? If it was good they wouldn't have left in the first place.

 

[shaz619]

Why would any sane person leave Europe or North America to return to Pakistan? If it was good they wouldn't have left in the first place.

He comes from a privileged background I believe and financial security isn't a worry for him so I guess he ought to be overly hostile towards others who will not return to pak which is unfair, but such folk can still contribute to their homeland whilst basing in Europe or North America but they do not owe anyone a charity. Besides, what has Pakistan given them? I am a bit more protective of Brum then others but it's because the city has given me everything despite all my struggles so I do feel in debt and contribute whenever am able to when it comes to helping others but even then, it's not a rule and each to their own.

 

[emm-tee]

Some hilarious posts.

Went to Pakistan for a couple weeks last month and no, I was not scared to carry around my phone everywhere with me. Heck, I even went and exchanged money without a worry and quite a decent amount of cash on me at all times as well.

You being worried someone will snatch your phone etc is mostly a mental thing and very different ground reality. Went to 5 cities in Punjab and no issues whatsoever. BTW I had an iPhone 7 Plus when I was travelling with roaming so I was using it everywhere.

About moving back, I wouldn't though. That's not because of security or pollution or any other reason. Simply because I've been raised and brought up outside of Pak and wouldn't be able to fully adjust myself.

 

[KingKhanWC]

He comes from a privileged background I believe and financial security isn't a worry for him so I guess he ought to be overly hostile towards others who will not return to pak which is unfair, but such folk can still contribute to their homeland whilst basing in Europe or North America but they do not owe anyone a charity. Besides, what has Pakistan given them? I am a bit more protective of Brum then others but it's because the city has given me everything despite all my struggles so I do feel in debt and contribute whenever am able to when it comes to helping others but even then, it's not a rule and each to their own.

A lot of these folk have family in institutions which means they get ahead mainly due to corruption. Because they live in relative comfort they think Pakistan is a great nation to live in but the truth is the majority of the population struggles in every day life. People are not equal under the law, rich people have more rights than poor people. This is where Britain is a great , the norm is no matter who you are , your status , you have no more rights than anyone else. It's not surprising people like this support corrupt leaders such as Nawaz and Bhuto. Maybe when Imran Khan comes into power and things change, such people will start looking at flight deals.

 

[Yossarian]

The question and basis of the discussion is in the title.

For those of you out there living outside Pakistan, would you move back there if you could?

If not, why not?

Nope.

*** Grown up in the UK (born in Pakistan but taken to the UK at a very early age, before the age of schooling)

*** All education in the UK. Meaning little formally educated knowledge of Pakistani literature, history, culture, arts, music.

*** Ability to read/write urdu only at a fairly basic level (only taught a little at home, none in a formal educational institution by professional teachers). Therefore at a disadvantage compared with Pakistan educated professionals if I was to try and obtain a job in Pakistan.

*** Even if I was able to obtain such, my level of urdu grammar and vocabulary, when reading/writing memo's or documents in urdu if/when the need arose, would make me stand out like a sore thumb and may cause problems to my employers.

Foreigners working in Pakistan is not a fair comparison because they are working as expats, and hired because of their specialised skill set which probably required very little knowledge of urdu. Besides, translators and/or interpreters would be made available for expats - not so for non-expat employees, which one would be if they moved there on a permanent basis.

*** My own children are now at school and being educated as per the the national curriculum for England, and therefore would face similar issues if moved to Pakistan.

Having said all of the above, I have lived & worked in the USA, with my children attending American state schools whilst we were there. They had virtually no problems adjusting to the different educational systems, both when moving to the USA as well as when moving back. This was solely due to the similar everyday language, cultures and environment of the UK and USA, which would not be the case if we moved to Pakistan.


Overall, it would be naive in the extreme for anyone whose entire education was at UK (or USA) state schools to then believe that they would be able to compete on an equal footing with other potential candidates educated in Pakistani educational institutions (either in Pakistan itself or in Pakistani schools outside Pakistan) if their job required a decent knowledge of urdu (which would be expected of anyone considered as a 'local' employee. Different of course if they were classed as an 'expat' employee)

 

[blackanhyellow]

Some very pathetic posts in this thread. Disappointed but not surprised. Pakistan doesn't need you either.

Coming from the guy who goes vacationing in the UK.

When we were in Pakistan we couldn't even dream of vacationing in such places. Our vacation was going to a slightly fancy restaurant.

Not all of us were from upper class families in Pakistan, hence we come from different realities.

If I was rich in Pakistan I wouldn't want to leave either because I could live in an upper class liberal bubble.

 

[shaz619]

A lot of these folk have family in institutions which means they get ahead mainly due to corruption. Because they live in relative comfort they think Pakistan is a great nation to live in but the truth is the majority of the population struggles in every day life. People are not equal under the law, rich people have more rights than poor people. This is where Britain is a great , the norm is no matter who you are , your status , you have no more rights than anyone else. It's not surprising people like this support corrupt leaders such as Nawaz and Bhuto. Maybe when Imran Khan comes into power and things change, such people will start looking at flight deals.

*DropsTheMic* You could have been the 2pac Shakur of Westmanz Totally agree with you, I'd have expected folk in pakistan to have a better understanding of the decisions which people are forced to make; unfortunately the Pakistani dream is one which involves seeking a better life elsewhere, for that to stop there needs to be a big shift when it comes to the countries economic prowess, law, politics and leadership etc

 

[Yossarian]

Coming from the guy who goes vacationing in the UK.

When we were in Pakistan we couldn't even dream of vacationing in such places. Our vacation was going to a slightly fancy restaurant.

Not all of us were from upper class families in Pakistan, hence we come from different realities.

If I was rich in Pakistan I wouldn't want to leave either because I could live in an upper class liberal bubble.

And by and large be exempt from the law. And also, due to the vast chasm between the poor and the middle/upper classes, enjoy being fawned on by those less privileged.

 

[KingKhanWC]

*DropsTheMic* You could have been the 2pac Shakur of Westmanz Totally agree with you, I'd have expected folk in pakistan to have a better understanding of the decisions which people are forced to make; unfortunately the Pakistani dream is one which involves seeking a better life elsewhere, for that to stop there needs to be a big shift when it comes to the countries economic prowess, law, politics and leadership etc

Feel like Tupac when I go back there, I see no changes but more and more corrupt faces. As a kid it was exciting going to Pakistan for a holiday but as you get older you realise pretty much every person in Pakistan is out to make money from you. From the time you get off the plane, you're hounded by corrupt airport staff trying to use any lame excuse to get some sterling off you. You go to the shop to buy a shirt and because you are from the UK they try to charge you 3 times the normal rate etc etc.. There are obviously good people in Pakistan but apart from the lifestyle in the UK, the people here are more genuine imo. I think this is often overlooked when deciding to move to Pakistan.

 

[Black Zero]

Never.

Some of the reasons, I migrated out of Pakistan were:


Closed society
Highly censored education.
Low human development index.
Extreme human right violations.
Insecurity


And situation is worse now.

 

[Yossarian]

Never.

Some of the reasons, I migrated out of Pakistan were:


Closed society
Highly censored education.
Low human development index.
Extreme human right violations.
Insecurity


And situation is worse now.

And most important of all, better pay in Canada?

 

[Black Zero]

And most important of all, better pay in Canada?

Not really.
I am earning 6 figures but my class fellows in Pakistan (almost, all of them), earning more, if I consider purchasing power pairity.

Even though I immigrated to Canada as skilled worker, but still paid for master of engineering degree from my pocket before earning anything in Canada. And before coming to Canada, I was working in UAE, and compensation was not bad there, if you consider, no tax, car, residence paid by employer.

So, I am certain, money is not a main (or even side factor)in my decision.

 

[Yossarian]

Not really.
I am earning 6 figures but my class fellows in Pakistan (almost, all of them), earning more, if I consider purchasing power pairity.

Even though I immigrated to Canada as skilled worker, but still paid for master of engineering degree from my pocket before earning anything in Canada. And before coming to Canada, I was working in UAE, and compensation was not bad there, if you consider, no tax, car, residence paid by employer.

So, I am certain, money is not a main (or even side factor)in my decision.

Fair enough.

I relocated back from the USA (to the UK) so that my parents and my children could be closer and spend more time together even though I used to bring the whole family back during school holidays at least twice a year, whilst my parents also visited during the English winter.

I'm glad I did because my parents have now both passed away.

 

[The_KING]

No, thanks. I like Pakistan but it's only good for a few weeks of holiday and that too only in winter. Why would I leave the free west to go and live among backward old fashioned people who are mostly corrupt and selfish? Why would I live in a country where water and electricity problems happen on a regular basis? Thanks but I'm good in England.

 

[Major]

Some very pathetic posts in this thread. Disappointed but not surprised. Pakistan doesn't need you either.

not pathetic posts actually.

these people are being realistic and dont live in fantasy world and these are the kind of people i like.

Lets face it, in Pakistan the only way to survive is being street smart or else you will just rot. ANd i'm not even 1% street smart

 

[Azzurri]

Simply NO

 

[Sarfarazian92]

Definitely!

 

[saeedhk]

Pakistan is only good for holidays and that too in winter.That being said, whenever, I have been to Pakistan, I have never had any bad experience ; never been robbed or had someone run me over. I felt very safe in Pakistan maybe because I come from an affluent place in Pakistan.

But, I would never move to Pakistan. There are just too many hardships; poor education, medical systems coupled with poor human development and a lack of prospects for youngsters.

 

[PakLFC]

Yes I would if I had lots of money. Another reason for returning would be a positive change in government. I would like to spend much more time in Pakistan for sure.

 

[Slog]

Already did

Though I understand the posts in the thread to an extent

If my familly was also from some backward, uneducated pind of Punjab I would also be hesitant to move back there.

 

[Azzurri]

Already did

Though I understand the posts in the thread to an extent

If my familly was also from some backward, uneducated pind of Punjab I would also be hesitant to move back there.

As if life is better outside of backward, uneducated pinds

 

[Pakistanian]

Already did

Though I understand the posts in the thread to an extent

If my familly was also from some backward, uneducated pind of Punjab I would also be hesitant to move back there.

I have many friends here who have origins from Karachi and other places of Pakistan and they wouldn't ever move back. Pakistan just isn't safe, especially Karachi where getting mugged and murdered by criminals is pretty common, as well as getting threats from extortionists if you're somewhat successful. Also, the less populated parts of Pakistan would be better cause of less pollution and congestion. I mean, if I've ever decided to live in Pakistan, I'd probably choose a small town in a valley up north.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Already did

Though I understand the posts in the thread to an extent

If my familly was also from some backward, uneducated pualind of Punjab I would also be hesitant to move back there.

I've found the village life a lot more pleasent. Its a lot cleaner, fresh air, open spaces, free range animals and the people are more friendly and welcoming. The city life is not pretty at all, as someone mentioned they drive like imbeciles so that itself shows their mentality.

Which part of foward , educated , city life do you come from?

 

[Pakistanian]

I've been to 3 of the major cities in Pakistan(Lahore, Karachi & Islamabad/Rawalpindi) and I stayed at some of the nicest parts of those cities but I wouldn't live in any of them, wasn't impressed.

 

[PerfectionPersonified]

Interesting comments here, so much negativity about Pakistan and still want overseas TEAMS TO GO AND PLAY IN PAKISTAN?? I would go back if offered a stable job. I don’t care about security, it is overhyped to be bad

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Some very pathetic posts in this thread. Disappointed but not surprised. Pakistan doesn't need you either.

Very well said. I swear to god there is nothing worse than expats who bash their own country. Some of my relatives who live abroad do it and it makes me so mad. The same jokers act like saints and suck up to everyone in the west but when they go back home, they don't think twice before littering. What do these guys do to make Pakistan a better place. Pakistan is much much better without them.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

The worst part is when they speak without knowing jack. A Pakistani here asked me how I was able to get a PS4 over there. Clueless, infuriating idiots most of these guys and Pakistan is much better off without their annoying presence.

 

[Sarfarazian92]

I've lived in nyc and I've lived in Karachi and I'll choose the Karachi life every freaking time.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

I've lived in nyc and I've lived in Karachi and I'll choose the Karachi life every freaking time.

You said it. Ive had so much fun over the past 6 months since moving to Canada for university but Pakistan ka apna maza hai

 

[Black Zero]

I've lived in nyc and I've lived in Karachi and I'll choose the Karachi life every freaking time.

So, I am assuming you are in karachi now and wold never live karachi?

 

[Sarfarazian92]

So, I am assuming you are in karachi now and wold never live karachi?

No. I moved to nyc 6.5 years ago but I have spent each summer (3 months) in Karachi since moving here.

 

[Black Zero]

I've lived in nyc and I've lived in Karachi and I'll choose the Karachi life every freaking time.

No. I moved to nyc 6.5 years ago but I have spent each summer (3 months) in Karachi since moving here.

Then you should revise your earlier statement as you are not choosing karachi life every freaking time.
You only choosing karachi in summer time.

 

[Sarfarazian92]

Then you should revise your earlier statement as you are not choosing karachi life every freaking time.
You only choosing karachi in summer time.

I'm 18. I am dependent on my parents.

If it was upto me, I wouldn't have left Pakistan in the first place.

 

[Runner Up]

I live in Karachi and I don't even want to move to other city in Pakistan. It's natural thing. I get bored when I go out of Pakistan and start missing my home.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

I will eventually move back to Karachi in the next 5-8 years or so. I am working overseas due to financial constraints that my family faced during when I was a juvenile and a teenager and I made a vow that I will eradicate these when I am able and working on my own.

Alhamdulliah I have a stable income in Malaysia working in ERP and Finance (I am a Chartered Accountant by Profession) so now these financial hurdles have somewhat been dissolved - Almost 60-70 percent. My plan now is to start a twin pronged business that will feature in Pakistan as well as in Far East and Oceania. Once that is stable enough I will take charge of the station in Pakistan while I'll make my kid brother handle stuff overseas

I love my country to bits and if it wasn't for these difficulties I wouldn't have ever left Pakistan. Even today if some company offers me 80% of what I am earning right now I will move back to Pakistan in a heart beat. There is nothing more comforting than home and home is nowhere but in Pakistan.

Although I am extremely surprised by some of the posts in this thread !!

 

[shah_1]

There is so much lie and misinformation by many here

I haved lived in London for my B.Eng for three years and I perfer Islamabad. It's actucally more secure than London.

 

[IAJ]

Firstly I am very happy and satisfied with my life here in Norway, Alhamdulillah.

Even though I came to Norway when I was 6 years old I still remember the days in Pakistan. And I have been there several times after that.

I would loved to move back and live there, I have many relatives there, the best thing is to just wear same clothes indoor and outdoor and be able to pray in Mosques.
The food is also good, I love the bazaars as well.

But my children are born here in and for them it will be a huge change to move to Pakistan permanently. But Ineill keep taking them to Pakistan on vacations.
Going to Pak in two weeks time BTW

 

[Zohaib Shah]

Nope no way.

I have been to Pakistan many times now. I have realized the living standards there are horrible. I feel bad for the citizens of Pakistan who have to suffer from water problems and load shedding everyday. In fact the living standards there are so bad that I failed to see a cricket match properly. Without having the light to go out for an hour.

 

[Yossarian]

I will eventually move back to Karachi in the next 5-8 years or so. I am working overseas due to financial constraints that my family faced during when I was a juvenile and a teenager and I made a vow that I will eradicate these when I am able and working on my own.

Yeah, that's what each and every one of those early migrants (almost exclusively young men) who went to work in the UK said in the late 50's to late 60's. Apart from parents and siblings, many had even lfet wives and young children behind whilst they went to make some money to give their families a better life back home. "Just a few years of hard work and saving money, and we'll be back after we've improved the family's situation"

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Yeah, that's what each and every one of those early migrants (almost exclusively young men) who went to work in the UK said in the late 50's to late 60's. Apart from parents and siblings, many had even lfet wives and young children behind whilst they went to make some money to give their families a better life back home. "Just a few years of hard work and saving money, and we'll be back after we've improved the family's situation"

Well I can't vouch or give explanation for the people you're talking about so I won't comment on that but here in the far east, especially Malaysia and Singapore there is no 'immigration program' or a pathway to becoming citizens or residents, you are welcomed in their society as long as you remain a contributing factor to their economy; so I came here with a preset notion that one day, eventually, I will be going back to Pakistan.

This kind of a mindset actually makes it easier for you to navigate in this environment, you don't slack off and keep focused from day 1. I have successfully completed my studies here (without ever lending anything from my parents or anyone else) and now I am Alhamdullilah have a good stable income that helps me save for a start up and pays for all me and my family bills.

In the grand scheme of things that's a couple of hurdles crossed and I am looking forward Inshallah to making it in the next stage i.e. to start my own business and making it a profitable avenue in the next half a decade or a bit more. By the time that is achieved, Inshallah I will make sure my kid brother is a trained to the extent where he can hold his own if I throw him at the deep end of managing a small scale business and keeping it going. His turn to learn how to navigate life and learn how to make a living without help and on his own.

By that time I think I'll be 31-33ish (I am 24 right now ) which would be the ideal time for me to come back home, develop a forked connection to my overseas business in Karachi (MY HOME) and live a peaceful life in the city I love and in the country I adore and am really proud off.

If my brother after he learns his craft in those 5-8 years wants to live overseas then I'll be happy for him or else if he wants to come back then I'll support him 100% as well (That's his choice).

Where I work right now the only way you can become a citizen or a resident is if you marry a local and then she files for an immigration based on marriage while since I am Pakistani I've had 6-7 different offers from extremely decent Malay families who have asked me to marry their girls and that they'd help me (financial and socially) to get started on any type of business I might want but truth be told I am not looking to stay here and hence I have rejected all of them without hesitation.

I hope this answers your questions brother

 

[Moiza]

I can't say anything about other cities but islamabad seems to be perfect even for a middle class family. No gas or water shortage, water is actually in such abundance that our maid washes the driveway twice a week which makes me mad since the country faces a shortage. Security is also perfect in islamabad. Electricity is annoying but after a while it doesn't bother you at all because everything I use is on the UPS/generator.

The only problem I see with islamabad is the unbelievably high property prices. Only the elites can purchase property here.

 

[Yossarian]

Well I can't vouch or give explanation for the people you're talking about so I won't comment on that but here in the far east, especially Malaysia and Singapore there is no 'immigration program' or a pathway to becoming citizens or residents, you are welcomed in their society as long as you remain a contributing factor to their economy; so I came here with a preset notion that one day, eventually, I will be going back to Pakistan.

This is the key. Malaysia is not your 'home', you are basically an 'expat' / migrant worker in Malaysia, and as such, if the authorities so wish, they can at anytime revoke your visa and ask you to leave. Correct?

Whilst the OP is basically referring to those who are citizens of the countries where they are currently living, and where many of them were born, and even where their parents were born. The OP is effectively asking if they would leave their countries of birth, in some cases even of their parents countries of birth, to emigrate to Pakistan on a permanent basis.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

This is the key. Malaysia is not your 'home', you are basically an 'expat' / migrant worker in Malaysia, and as such, if the authorities so wish, they can at anytime revoke your visa and ask you to leave. Correct?

Yes, that is correct.

Whilst the OP is basically referring to those who are citizens of the countries where they are currently living, and where many of them were born, and even where their parents were born. The OP is effectively asking if they would leave their countries of birth, in some cases even of their parents countries of birth, to emigrate to Pakistan on a permanent basis.

I am not too sure how I should answer this apart from that it was my mistake that I couldn't identify the OP correctly. Somebody who is in such a position as specifically mentioned here could be better suited to answer this correctly.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Whilst the OP is basically referring to those who are citizens of the countries where they are currently living, and where many of them were born, and even where their parents were born. The OP is effectively asking if they would leave their countries of birth, in some cases even of their parents countries of birth, to emigrate to Pakistan on a permanent basis.

Wait Wait Wait.... On second thoughts !! This is what the OP Says Brother:

The question and basis of the discussion is in the title.

For those of you out there living outside Pakistan, would you move back there if you could?

If not, why not?

I don't see where [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] bhai has categorically mentioned that I have to be a citizen of that country or my parents might have migrated here. He is just asking for anyone who might be living abroad. Please re read the OP brother.

 

[Salma_T]

I'm 18. I am dependent on my parents.

If it was upto me, I wouldn't have left Pakistan in the first place.

sorry but you are a child no responsibility everything on your parents.You go to Karachi and chill out no need to worry about the real world. Come back when you have become a member of the workforce!

 

[Yossarian]

Wait Wait Wait.... On second thoughts !! This is what the OP Says Brother:



I don't see where [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] bhai has categorically mentioned that I have to be a citizen of that country or my parents might have migrated here. He is just asking for anyone who might be living abroad. Please re read the OP brother.

If they are not citizens of the country in which they are living, and have no intentions of becoming a citizen, then it's not their permanent 'home' - they are effectively expats in much the same way you are.

Just as, unlike the citizens of Malaysia, you can only remain in Malaysia as long as your visa is periodically renewed by the authorities, and they can make you leave anytime they wish by revoking your visa, without being citizens of where they live ( or having permanent residence, but which too can be revoked if the authorities so wish), it is not their permanent home and they too can be asked to leave anytime the authorities wish to do so.

That's why the OP doesn't need to spell it out that he's referring to citizens (and permanent residents with aspirations of becoming citizens in the future) of other countries, and not referring to Pakistani expats/ migrant workers whose 'home' is in Pakistan.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

If they are not citizens of the country in which they are living, and have no intentions of becoming a citizen, then it's not their permanent 'home' - they are effectively expats in much the same way you are.

Just as, unlike the citizens of Malaysia, you can only remain in Malaysia as long as your visa is periodically renewed by the authorities, and they can make you leave anytime they wish by revoking your visa, without being citizens of where they live ( or having permanent residence, but which too can be revoked if the authorities so wish), it is not their permanent home and they too can be asked to leave anytime the authorities wish to do so.

That's why the OP doesn't need to spell it out that he's referring to citizens (and permanent residents with aspirations of becoming citizens in the future) of other countries, and not referring to Pakistani expats/ migrant workers whose 'home' is in Pakistan.

Fair Enough, I'll give [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] bhai the benefit of the doubt but I would appreciate if he could come and clear this up for us in the OP. As far as my English reading skills goes I can't make a connection to the above. Anyways Good Talk !!

 

[the Great Khan]

Already did it and stayed there for nearly a decade but teh caveat was my dad was still in the UK most of the time and our income was UK income..therefore alhumdullillah we had a decent standard of living..I still miss those great spring days in Islamabad..I moved to karachi first and after a year of culture shocks I eventaully became a full fledged karachite,..my parents had a decent social circle and I lived in an ok area at the time..but islamabad was the place for me..just loved the place..and part of me wants to go back but unfortunaltey practical issues just come in the way now..children , work, etc..realistically i dont think ill be able to move back..maybe when I'm older and nearing retirement..it may be an option to spend some winters there..

fortunatley or unfortunatley what ever way you look at it the UK is where im at now and this is where i have my rozi written until Allah decides otherwise..plus the education system for my kids gives them a chance..unless my son suddenly decides he wants to join the pakistan army if all his cousins do the same lol..

my parents spend alot of time in islamabad so I still go back and still love it..(but you have to make sure you dont get into any scrapes because thats when you realise how broken some of the organisational processes are in pak. but its improving and you ahve to be a bit ballsy but you can get things done)

 

[dhump]

I founded a company in Pakistan and worked there for 5 years travelling constantly and staying in Pakistan.

First my observations

- If you have money you can live comfortable in Pakistan.
- Even with money for things like medical,police and government sector work you need to know someone.
- Electricity is unreliable and water is sometimes unavailable.
- Social life is always great in Karachi.
- You cannot trust people you dont know and this is a fact.

So after all this what I say if I do it again...Answer is big NO I will not even travel to Pakistan anymore. It is a country where life holds no value on the street you are vulnerable if you do well you are not safe at home either you cant trust your countrymen you cant trust your neighbors. You as a citizen is nothing and country belongs to chosen elite who loot the land.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think I could live in Africa if I had to, you just downsize your expectations and fit your lifestyle to your surroundings.

Would I want to? No because for me it wouldn't be 'moving back' so I wouldn't fit in, neither is it my way of life. That said, the freshies who leave and spend all their time badmouthing where they come from don't impress me much either, I certainly wouldn't mix with them over here either. Miserable gits.

 

[shah_1]

Islamabad is a good place to live if you have saved enough money to buy yourself a house and skilled enough to earn good

 

[yasir]

The question and basis of the discussion is in the title.

For those of you out there living outside Pakistan, would you move back there if you could?

If not, why not?

I would ask a similar question, but differently...

People who moved from Villages to Cities (throughout last 70 years), within Pakistan, would they move back to villages?? - Again why not??

I always compare moving to west to move from village to cities, its a generational move, done for very similar reasons (better and equal opportunity, better education for kids, better and empowering life for women, more open and less prejudice social values, also kind of surprising but more diverse environment)...

Culture of Pakistan faces same challenges as culture of villages (in last 70 years, they were not able to hold generations at home, same is true for Pakistan)...Both of them are reluctant to grow or evolve, they want to hold on to traditions and values that have frankly failed for centuries and decades...They still have fetish about old traditions(religions, family system, inequality of race, gender and what not)...They don't see value of modern world, well feel strongly threaten by it...

Family System, which is sort of corner stone of Pakistani culture, is causes same problem in villages as in cities, that system does not work in modern industrialized era, it creates inequality, injustice and short sightedness, result is society as a whole is not thinking beyond next meal, that does not take you anywhere...

You need a vibrant liberal pockets in your country, Society needs a more dynamic and open culture to grow and evolve, until they Pakistan will have hard time stopping the bleed...We loose way more liberal brain than anybody else in the world probably, those are the agents of change...Even if you don't like them, should be tolerant enough to live with them

 

[Sarfarazian92]

sorry but you are a child no responsibility everything on your parents.You go to Karachi and chill out no need to worry about the real world. Come back when you have become a member of the workforce!

Lol why are you guys so sensitive?

Did I say that everyone should leave their current country and go live in Pakistan? No.

I simply stated that I've had a better life in Karachi than in nyc. Nothing to get worked up about.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Some very pathetic posts in this thread. Disappointed but not surprised. Pakistan doesn't need you either.

I salute you bro! Honestly, I don't even get the thing with these guys. Too sissy, IMO.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Very disappointed by the disgusting comments by fellow PP'ers. I would expect Overseas Pakistani's to have a different view of Pakistan but sadly, most of the overseas "Pakistani's" hold the same, baseless sentiments as those of the Westerners. First of all, I would very much appreciate it if people were more realistic. Bashing your home country and calling it third world or whatever doesn't make a difference or change what the reality is. Pakistan is one of the fastest growing economies and people here who work hard make a very good living and actually have lives better than those that you could ever imagine living in America or any other Western country.

Secondly, something that disappoints me is that a couple of posters have right out said that Mamoon's family may have been corrupt because he belongs from an Upper Middle-Class family. LOL. Honestly, I don't even feel the need to reply to that because it just portrays your ignorance and simple pessimism towards Pakistan. There is nepotism everywhere in the world. There is corruption everywhere in the world but that does not mean that everyone who makes a decent living is corrupt.

As for those saying that there are limited job opportunities in Pakistan, then I very much welcome you working at Dunkin' Donuts or TGI Friday's if that is your definition of employment abroad. Let's face it, all the overseas Pakistani's bashing Pakistan here are aware of their social security and welfare support and that chanda is all you worship your adopted homes for. Pakistan has just the right amount of employment opportunities but for those who look for them, are dedicated and worth it. You shouldn't expect to get a good, well paying job while not even having passed your A Levels/High school.

 

[Moiza]

Culture of Pakistan faces same challenges as culture of villages (in last 70 years, they were not able to hold generations at home, same is true for Pakistan)...Both of them are reluctant to grow or evolve, they want to hold on to traditions and values that have frankly failed for centuries and decades...They still have fetish about old traditions(religions, family system, inequality of race, gender and what not)...They don't see value of modern world, well feel strongly threaten by it...

Just because the country you live in doesnt value these things doesnt mean they are doomed for failure. Pakistan has its fair share of problems but blame them on holding onto culture, religion, "family system" etc is not right. The social system of the west isn't perfect either which is clearly evident from the sky high divorce rates with many marriages lasting only a few years now. Maybe one day you'll advocate the marriage is evil too and how it's holding Pakistan back. I dont know about you but I loved growing up with both my parents in the house.

Its okay to bash Pakistan on the things that are bad like security, terrorism, job opportunity etc but if you start to pick out every aspect of the Pakistani society and start bashing it then that's stupid.

 

[Moiza]

Very disappointed by the disgusting comments by fellow PP'ers. I would expect Overseas Pakistani's to have a different view of Pakistan but sadly, most of the overseas "Pakistani's" hold the same, baseless sentiments as those of the Westerners. First of all, I would very much appreciate it if people were more realistic. Bashing your home country and calling it third world or whatever doesn't make a difference or change what the reality is. Pakistan is one of the fastest growing economies and people here who work hard make a very good living and actually have lives better than those that you could ever imagine living in America or any other Western country.

Secondly, something that disappoints me is that a couple of posters have right out said that Mamoon's family may have been corrupt because he belongs from an Upper Middle-Class family. LOL. Honestly, I don't even feel the need to reply to that because it just portrays your ignorance and simple pessimism towards Pakistan. There is nepotism everywhere in the world. There is corruption everywhere in the world but that does not mean that everyone who makes a decent living is corrupt.

As for those saying that there are limited job opportunities in Pakistan, then I very much welcome you working at Dunkin' Donuts or TGI Friday's if that is your definition of employment abroad. Let's face it, all the overseas Pakistani's bashing Pakistan here are aware of their social security and welfare support and that chanda is all you worship your adopted homes for. Pakistan has just the right amount of employment opportunities but for those who look for them, are dedicated and worth it. You shouldn't expect to get a good, well paying job while not even having passed your A Levels/High school.

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] family is apparently corrupt since he likes staying in Pakistan or God forbid he went for vacations in the UK. A lot of posters hold old notions about Pakistan from when they used to live here while completing ignoring the fact that Pakistan as a country and a society is evolving. Obviously no sane person would leave a developed country for Pakistan but to project Pakistan like a slum is the definition of wrong.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Very disappointed by the disgusting comments by fellow PP'ers. I would expect Overseas Pakistani's to have a different view of Pakistan but sadly, most of the overseas "Pakistani's" hold the same, baseless sentiments as those of the Westerners. First of all, I would very much appreciate it if people were more realistic. Bashing your home country and calling it third world or whatever doesn't make a difference or change what the reality is. Pakistan is one of the fastest growing economies and people here who work hard make a very good living and actually have lives better than those that you could ever imagine living in America or any other Western country.

Secondly, something that disappoints me is that a couple of posters have right out said that Mamoon's family may have been corrupt because he belongs from an Upper Middle-Class family. LOL. Honestly, I don't even feel the need to reply to that because it just portrays your ignorance and simple pessimism towards Pakistan. There is nepotism everywhere in the world. There is corruption everywhere in the world but that does not mean that everyone who makes a decent living is corrupt.

As for those saying that there are limited job opportunities in Pakistan, then I very much welcome you working at Dunkin' Donuts or TGI Friday's if that is your definition of employment abroad. Let's face it, all the overseas Pakistani's bashing Pakistan here are aware of their social security and welfare support and that chanda is all you worship your adopted homes for. Pakistan has just the right amount of employment opportunities but for those who look for them, are dedicated and worth it. You shouldn't expect to get a good, well paying job while not even having passed your A Levels/High school.

I always assume that a fair number of ex-pats posting on Pakistan forums are those who have political or sectarian grievances. They may well be justified, I don't make any judgement on that, but you always wonder why else would someone post relentlessly on the same subjects when ostensibly it's the life they've left behind?

 

[ExpressPacer]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] family is apparently corrupt since he likes staying in Pakistan or God forbid he went for vacations in the UK. A lot of posters hold old notions about Pakistan from when they used to live here while completing ignoring the fact that Pakistan as a country and a society is evolving. Obviously no sane person would leave a developed country for Pakistan but to project Pakistan like a slum is the definition of wrong.

Exactly, I have friend's from lower middle-class backgrounds making holiday trips to Dubai and perhaps would even make them to England given they'd get a visa easily. Also, I would assume most of these people who left Pakistan and now are bashing it are one of those people who would be ready to work as a salesman at Drive Through but not as a professional in Pakistan just because of the title of being an Overseas Pakistani.

Also, to address your last comment, to be honest, a sane person would very much so leave a developed country for Pakistan given that he/she has established themselves. Given that they would be able to make a good living in Pakistan. This was never a thread about what the downsides of living in Pakistan were, but rather one for if someone could, would they?

I know lots of people who have and they wouldn't even think about moving back.

 

[ExpressPacer]

I always assume that a fair number of ex-pats posting on Pakistan forums are those who have political or sectarian grievances. They may well be justified, I don't make any judgement on that, but you always wonder why else would someone post relentlessly on the same subjects when ostensibly it's the life they've left behind?

As for anyone who's left Pakistan because of Sectarian grievances, I would understand. That is one aspect of the Pakistani society (and perhaps the only) that I am extremely ashamed of. We have no values and no morals with regards to difference of sect, religion and religious beliefs. But to show Pakistan as some dump and portray the West to be Narnia or Utopia is totally uncalled for. I would understand the cries for load-shedding (even though it wouldn't be much of problem for someone moving back given they'd have good money) or even education and all that but to say you can't trust the people, neighbors and stuff like that is absolute garbage. - To all those with such an opinion, please, do me a favour and walk into Brooklyn, New York and then tell me how safe it is. Or how nice the people are.

Honestly, I didn't feel safe walking in the streets of East London at night because I'd seen drunks, gangs or 'roadmen' as they are referred to acting like thugs and taking whatever you had while aiming a gun at people's head.

 

[GudduBadmash]

Not at all

 

[yasir]

Just because the country you live in doesnt value these things doesnt mean they are doomed for failure. Pakistan has its fair share of problems but blame them on holding onto culture, religion, "family system" etc is not right. The social system of the west isn't perfect either which is clearly evident from the sky high divorce rates with many marriages lasting only a few years now. Maybe one day you'll advocate the marriage is evil too and how it's holding Pakistan back. I dont know about you but I loved growing up with both my parents in the house.

Its okay to bash Pakistan on the things that are bad like security, terrorism, job opportunity etc but if you start to pick out every aspect of the Pakistani society and start bashing it then that's stupid.

Nobody is saying west is prefect, but clearly its better that's why people move their not to east...Same case can be made for villages verses cities...Most conservatives believe that conservative culture of villages is better cities, yet people were always flocking to cities in big numbers...Conservative culture works like military, when people are obedient and don't demand or expect much, which worked in time when masses were illiterate, but not when education is on the rise...

Family System did not evolve because people love each other, but in agriculture era, they needed more hands and at early age, its easy to tame the obedience at early age... Like in Army, tameness is most important value for the solider, this dose of love for country, race, religion servers as good taming agent and authorities love them, but there is nothing else good about these ideas...Its just a way to make you slave

If these conservative ideas would create Economic opportunities, people would still might not have left those cultures, problem is, it has very little to offer in every expect...Even in west these ideas are build on the strength of wealth created by liberal cultures, innovation of Science, Technology, thoughts and Arts are driven by liberal pocket of the societies... Problem with muslims is they don't let liberal live in their societies, its only their loss, they are loosing key resources to the west

 

[Moiza]

If Pakistan expats were running away from the conservative culture then they would be settling in the middle eastern countries.

India is also a conservative country but many Indians return from abroad to India every year and the numbers are increasing by the year.

 

[yasir]

If Pakistan expats were running away from the conservative culture then they would be settling in the middle eastern countries.

India is also a conservative country but many Indians return from abroad to India every year and the numbers are increasing by the year.

Well, there is conservative culture and then their is extremist culture, we are brewing a lot of that in last 20/30 years...Religion on steroids, look at Tablagis for instance, they have ruined everything including Cricket...Then their is every variety of extremist, good Talabian, Bad ones, every variety of Sunis, some Shais too... Problem is Pakistani society is too easy to hijack by extremist, but for liberals and free thinking culture, that is impossible task...

Indians are not going after liberal with full force yet, I don't think they are that stupid

Many People who live in Middle East are ok with religious discrimination as long as it is not their religion...Women are fine with not so much freedom, as long as it means they have less to do at home, give and take...Many people like the closeness with Pakistan, 2 hours and you are back home...Also, Keep in mind Middle is not the final destination for most, because that culture can only go thus far(you are still treated as second class citizen), final destination is west in most cases, sometimes it takes two generation. I know many families in USA, who came from Middle East and their parents to middle east generation ago...For education, everybody wants to go to west, not just because they can land better jobs, but their education and env (for education) is actually better...It opens up your mind and vision more than you think.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

The only people I know who have gone back to Pakistan and stayed are people running away from British court cases

 

[KingKhanWC]

Very disappointed by the disgusting comments by fellow PP'ers. I would expect Overseas Pakistani's to have a different view of Pakistan but sadly, most of the overseas "Pakistani's" hold the same, baseless sentiments as those of the Westerners. First of all, I would very much appreciate it if people were more realistic. Bashing your home country and calling it third world or whatever doesn't make a difference or change what the reality is. Pakistan is one of the fastest growing economies and people here who work hard make a very good living and actually have lives better than those that you could ever imagine living in America or any other Western country.

This seems like an emotionally charged post. You first state people should be more realistic but further down go on to say people have better lives in Pakistan compared to Western nations. Could you please expand on how many people , what percentage of the population and some evidence to back up this point?

Secondly, something that disappoints me is that a couple of posters have right out said that Mamoon's family may have been corrupt because he belongs from an Upper Middle-Class family. LOL. Honestly, I don't even feel the need to reply to that because it just portrays your ignorance and simple pessimism towards Pakistan. There is nepotism everywhere in the world. There is corruption everywhere in the world but that does not mean that everyone who makes a decent living is corrupt.

There is corruption everywhere but not to the level in Pakistan, one of the most corrupt nations on the planet. I can only speak for myself but this is a real turn off for me, from the time I land to the time I fly back corruption throws itself in your face whether its from customs people, police, ministers, businessmen, shopkeepers. I don't think anyone mentioned anyone by name but there are many families of middle/upper class you indulge in corrupt practices at the expense of the hard working lower classes. Such people will inevitably want to remain in Pakistan.

As for those saying that there are limited job opportunities in Pakistan, then I very much welcome you working at Dunkin' Donuts or TGI Friday's if that is your definition of employment abroad. Let's face it, all the overseas Pakistani's bashing Pakistan here are aware of their social security and welfare support and that chanda is all you worship your adopted homes for. Pakistan has just the right amount of employment opportunities but for those who look for them, are dedicated and worth it. You shouldn't expect to get a good, well paying job while not even having passed your A Levels/High school.

The only ones who work in take aways are generally the new arrivals. In the UK we have moved 3/4 generations now and most people of Pakistani background are doing reasonably well in various professional fields.

 

[The_KING]

Very disappointed by the disgusting comments by fellow PP'ers. I would expect Overseas Pakistani's to have a different view of Pakistan but sadly, most of the overseas "Pakistani's" hold the same, baseless sentiments as those of the Westerners. First of all, I would very much appreciate it if people were more realistic. Bashing your home country and calling it third world or whatever doesn't make a difference or change what the reality is. Pakistan is one of the fastest growing economies and people here who work hard make a very good living and actually have lives better than those that you could ever imagine living in America or any other Western country.

Secondly, something that disappoints me is that a couple of posters have right out said that Mamoon's family may have been corrupt because he belongs from an Upper Middle-Class family. LOL. Honestly, I don't even feel the need to reply to that because it just portrays your ignorance and simple pessimism towards Pakistan. There is nepotism everywhere in the world. There is corruption everywhere in the world but that does not mean that everyone who makes a decent living is corrupt.

As for those saying that there are limited job opportunities in Pakistan, then I very much welcome you working at Dunkin' Donuts or TGI Friday's if that is your definition of employment abroad. Let's face it, all the overseas Pakistani's bashing Pakistan here are aware of their social security and welfare support and that chanda is all you worship your adopted homes for. Pakistan has just the right amount of employment opportunities but for those who look for them, are dedicated and worth it. You shouldn't expect to get a good, well paying job while not even having passed your A Levels/High school.

Unfortunately you are the victim of blind patriotism. There are a lot of problems with Pakistan. I would be a fool to leave England for Pakistan. Never understand why some people get so sensitive just because others don't share the same blind love for their country.

 

[Zohaib Shah]

Very disappointed by the disgusting comments by fellow PP'ers. I would expect Overseas Pakistani's to have a different view of Pakistan but sadly, most of the overseas "Pakistani's" hold the same, baseless sentiments as those of the Westerners. First of all, I would very much appreciate it if people were more realistic. Bashing your home country and calling it third world or whatever doesn't make a difference or change what the reality is. Pakistan is one of the fastest growing economies and people here who work hard make a very good living and actually have lives better than those that you could ever imagine living in America or any other Western country.

Secondly, something that disappoints me is that a couple of posters have right out said that Mamoon's family may have been corrupt because he belongs from an Upper Middle-Class family. LOL. Honestly, I don't even feel the need to reply to that because it just portrays your ignorance and simple pessimism towards Pakistan. There is nepotism everywhere in the world. There is corruption everywhere in the world but that does not mean that everyone who makes a decent living is corrupt.

As for those saying that there are limited job opportunities in Pakistan, then I very much welcome you working at Dunkin' Donuts or TGI Friday's if that is your definition of employment abroad. Let's face it, all the overseas Pakistani's bashing Pakistan here are aware of their social security and welfare support and that chanda is all you worship your adopted homes for. Pakistan has just the right amount of employment opportunities but for those who look for them, are dedicated and worth it. You shouldn't expect to get a good, well paying job while not even having passed your A Levels/High school.

All this sounds like a fairy tale written in a book. I have observed Pakistan long and hard to know all this is a false lie.

 

[Moiza]

Unfortunately you are the victim of blind patriotism. There are a lot of problems with Pakistan. I would be a fool to leave England for Pakistan. Never understand why some people get so sensitive just because others don't share the same blind love for their country.

You'd be surprised to know that not everyone hates Pakistan just because it's not more like the UK and the US. Really shocking if you ask me.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

It's hilarious when these same crybabies wear the green shirt and upload selfies on instagram before a big cricket match with hashtags like #pakistanzindabad. If you're gonna bash Pakistan in public then there's no need for your fake patriotism either.

 

[shah_1]

There is nothing wrong with perfering a country over Pakistan but bashing Pakistan like that is disgusting. Pakistan is better off without these hate mongers

 

[ExpressPacer]

This seems like an emotionally charged post. You first state people should be more realistic but further down go on to say people have better lives in Pakistan compared to Western nations. Could you please expand on how many people , what percentage of the population and some evidence to back up this point?



There is corruption everywhere but not to the level in Pakistan, one of the most corrupt nations on the planet. I can only speak for myself but this is a real turn off for me, from the time I land to the time I fly back corruption throws itself in your face whether its from customs people, police, ministers, businessmen, shopkeepers. I don't think anyone mentioned anyone by name but there are many families of middle/upper class you indulge in corrupt practices at the expense of the hard working lower classes. Such people will inevitably want to remain in Pakistan.



The only ones who work in take aways are generally the new arrivals. In the UK we have moved 3/4 generations now and most people of Pakistani background are doing reasonably well in various professional fields.

Please. If you're calling it an emotionally charged post just to feed your delusion, then I'm sorry, I can't do anything about that. You are saying that I'm not being realistic by saying that Pakistani's do not have better life than those of the Westerners. I don't buy that. Sorry, but we do. If you look at the average white collar person from both Pakistan and the West, you will see that Pakistani's in fact lead much better lives.

As for corruption, I don't really agree with you there. What facts and figures do you have to prove it? I'm sorry but if reading what the biased media tells you and forming an opinion from there is what you call your "proof", then you can keep it to yourself. Sure, there is corruption. But where is there not? Only 2016 American Anti Corruption department reported an assumed corruption of 200 billion US Dollars. So much for First World, West etc.

If you're going to try and sugarcoat things and think you sound very true and sophisticated, then let me assure you, you do. But that doesn't mean it is the truth. Anyway, I don't feel the need to argue with you anyway given how composed your oh so dear Western Education has made. Blaming someones family for corruption when all you know about them is through a cricket forum on the internet. Heck, you don't even know if his family is in the Govt. or not. He could be the son of a former princely state King for all you know..

As for talking about professionals, then if you are speaking of Pakistani Taxi Drivers in the UK then I'm sure that's such a promotion from being a salesman at McDonald's. Yes, I'm afraid this is the sad reality, my friend. No matter how much you deny it. Most British Pakistani's do work as Taxi drivers and the rich one's have their own mobile phone shops.