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Time to Move On: Pakistan's Speedsters Are Done!

mesmerizer85

Tape Ball Regular
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Sep 23, 2018
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After so many pathetic performances against even minnows, the writing is clear on the wall!

We need to move on from Haris, Shaheen, and Hasan, who have turned into run machines literally.

It’s time to inject some fresh blood into this team , bowlers who actually understand line and length.

The way associate teams are spanking them around shows there’s no fire or brains left in our so called "speedsters"

On top of that, we need batsmen who play with intent, not just reckless sloggers.
 
Old news. Pakistan's speedsters were done after Wasim and Waqar retired.

Not managing to hit the stumps in the 2007 World T20 bowl out when we could manage it with Sehwag, Uthappa and another guy was the writing on the wall.
 
Old news. Pakistan's speedsters were done after Wasim and Waqar retired.

Not managing to hit the stumps in the 2007 World T20 bowl out when we could manage it with Sehwag, Uthappa and another guy was the writing on the wall.
Wasim was the real deal. Waqar was great all round bowler in his 2nd innings when he was a trundler. Shoaib is a freak. I mean 160 clicks is special.

Asif is at best Bhuvi level (that’s a compliment as Bhuvi was also a gun bowler when in form)

Unfortunately Amir had it in him to be an ATG. He had cricketing smarts, skill and for a while pace too. We know how that turned out.

I would take Imran’s records with non-neutral umpires and no cameras with a pinch of salt. Was a great captain and mentor though and probably had an eye for the right talent that could play around him for his benefit but again nothing wrong with that 👍 .
 
Wasim was the real deal. Waqar was great all round bowler in his 2nd innings when he was a trundler. Shoaib is a freak. I mean 160 clicks is special.

Asif is at best Bhuvi level (that’s a compliment as Bhuvi was also a gun bowler when in form)

Unfortunately Amir had it in him to be an ATG. He had cricketing smarts, skill and for a while pace too. We know how that turned out.

I would take Imran’s records with non-neutral umpires and no cameras with a pinch of salt. Was a great captain and mentor though and probably had an eye for the right talent that could play around him for his benefit but again nothing wrong with that 👍 .
Asif is at best Bhuvi level lol?. Just right here, we have a proof of why some indians should not speak about fast bowling….
 
Asif is at best Bhuvi level lol?. Just right here, we have a proof of why some indians should not speak about fast bowling….
Maybe the drugs and fixing glamor is making him a better bowler for you than he is but had he lasted he would go in the way of so many after him. He was no better than Abbas who was hyped up here similarly. Good red ball bowler may I add- Abbas that is.
 
Lacking new ball skills for sure

That Rohid guy is a better new ball bowler than everyone in Pakistan atm

Beautiful skills
 
We were arguably the fastest and the best performing pace attack by miles in the T20WC 2022. These boys were getting adulation from everywhere.

Since then, the pacers have nose dived considerably and just reduced to bowling machines now.
 
Maybe the drugs and fixing glamor is making him a better bowler for you than he is but had he lasted he would go in the way of so many after him. He was no better than Abbas who was hyped up here similarly. Good red ball bowler may I add- Abbas that is.
Bus kar day, Yaar. Let’t forget both you and me for a moment and ask players like KP, Hashim Amla and AB de Villiers about Asif. I am sure you must have heard what they think about him?
 
We were arguably the fastest and the best performing pace attack by miles in the T20WC 2022. These boys were getting adulation from everywhere.

Since then, the pacers have nose dived considerably and just reduced to bowling machines now.
Was 2022 the attack that let India score 40 odd in the last 3, grab unlikely victory from jaws of defeat? Could be fastest but werent the best performing.

Naah mate your best pace attack was 2009 that got you the WC. Young Amir, Guldozer & Tanvir.....
 
Lacking new ball skills for sure

That Rohid guy is a better new ball bowler than everyone in Pakistan atm

Beautiful skills
And they don’t have any bowling intelligence either. One trick ponnies all of them.

Good bowlers always have certain plans against different batsman. Take the Indian opener as an example, Abishek? The guy was swinging his bat at every delivery. Against him you need a proper plan to set him up and get him out, you can’t keep bowling half-volleys or half-trackers to him.

The coaching staff with all those computers also needs to take responsibility. If the bowlers can’t execute their plans they should address that and even ask selectors to see for other options.
 
Indians comparing a nobody like Bhuvi to Asif omg 🤣 😂

How many batsmen have talked about Bhuvi being a dangerous bowler? None lol
 
You can say that. Given that red ball at home has been taken over by spinner uncles pakistan has no scope to develop fast bowlers at home. They predominantly play T2

T20s

SHaheen afridi peak ranking 3 in 2022 current ranking 27
Haris Rauf peak ranking 11 in 2023 current ranking 37
Naseem shah peak ranking 22 iin 2023 current ranking 125

ODIs

Naseem shah peak ranking 40 Current ranking 44
Haris Rauf peak ranking 10 current ranking 29
Shaheen peak ranking 1 current ranking 15

Shaheen is the only decent LOI bowler you have.
 
Was 2022 the attack that let India score 40 odd in the last 3, grab unlikely victory from jaws of defeat? Could be fastest but werent the best performing.

Naah mate your best pace attack was 2009 that got you the WC. Young Amir, Guldozer & Tanvir.....
In that tournament, the bowling carried us to the final despite the batting trying it’s level best to mess it up as usual.
 
Mohammed Amir (before scandal) and mohammed Asif were the last 2 world class pak bowlers.

Hasan Ali and afridi had their purple patches but lacked consistency. Both are finished as bowlers now
 
left arm seamer is always handy compared to right arm seamers due to their angle to right handers. NOt a lot in the world right now. SHaheen, Arshdeep, Fiz, Farooqui those are the major 4. Others are upcoming or new. Pakistan will still need to hold on to him. Rauf and Naseem can be dropped.
 
Ali Raza has potential but jumps out at the last moment, losing momentum and rhythm. Obaid has pace but lacks control. The young fast bowler from Sialkot had potential and showed real potential but with a poor and fractured domestic scene none of these guys are going to develop. If they do develop, it will be more luck rather than any one at PCB doing a good job
 
left arm seamer is always handy compared to right arm seamers due to their angle to right handers. NOt a lot in the world right now. SHaheen, Arshdeep, Fiz, Farooqui those are the major 4. Others are upcoming or new. Pakistan will still need to hold on to him. Rauf and Naseem can be dropped.
Fizz is playing from 10 years.he is done as an attacking option. He can attack only on sluggish pitches. But he will be carted around on any batting wicket.
 
Indians comparing a nobody like Bhuvi to Asif omg 🤣 😂

How many batsmen have talked about Bhuvi being a dangerous bowler? None lol
Bhuvneshwar has won an ICC trophy. Asif hasn't.

Bhuvi also has multiple Asia Cups. Asif hasn't.

Bhuvneshwar has MoMs in victories in England and SA.

Tests
63 @ 26.09 vs 106 @ 24.36

ODIs
141 @ 35.11 @ ER 5.08 vs 46 @ 33.13 @ ER 4.71

T20s
90 @ 23.10 @ ER 6.96 vs 13 @ 26.38 @ ER 8

This is one more of those things where Pakistanis hype up things in their own head while the stats say otherwise.
 
After so many pathetic performances against even minnows, the writing is clear on the wall!

We need to move on from Haris, Shaheen, and Hasan, who have turned into run machines literally.

It’s time to inject some fresh blood into this team , bowlers who actually understand line and length.

The way associate teams are spanking them around shows there’s no fire or brains left in our so called "speedsters"

On top of that, we need batsmen who play with intent, not just reckless sloggers.
Shaheen is making some sort of a come back, rest is crap. Particularly Harris , Faheem and Hasan won't make it to Hong Kong and Omman eleven.
 
The system to produce Proper cricketers is not there it is as simple is that. You will see brilliant players come and perform in a series or two and then become mediocre..

Pick any player in the past 5-10 yrs and you will see the same pattern.Once a player is identified you polish the player and build your team, but the system is such that great players become mediocre and fail game after game but no one is there to correct them or address the issues.

You will have Committees being form for producing "power hitters" LOL those are just gimmicks. Lets build a system and results will be seen as soon as 2 yrs. Been watching cricket for a very long time I know that will never happen. On personal Brilliance will win a series here and there or a big tournament in a 5-10 yrs nothing more. SL is an example WI is an example unfortunately Pak is also following the path...
 
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Not sure why Wasim Jnr didn't got a chance in games against UAE & Oman. Why Shaheen & Haris are playing against these teams? Pakistan really need to move on from current outdated pacers
 
I think the bowling department is still better than what we have in the batting atm.. Total failure in batting is making things even worse...

This team has failed to cross 150 more times than the last era, yet people are doing bhangra over this team..
 
Lol Pakistanis should not be speaking of fast bowling considering where they are now
Nothing surpasses experience and the knowledge it brings.
The whole world recognizes Pakistan’s legacy in fast bowling — and deep down, you know it too, which is probably why it stings. But that’s just something you’ll have to accept.

I’m not interested in diving into the usual Pakistan vs India debate with every new indian who pops up here daily — we’ve got plenty of others here who enjoy that kind of back-and-forth.

However, when someone claims that Mohammad Asif, at his best, was only on par with Bhuvneshwar Kumar, then clearly something has gone missing in their understanding.
 
How many times do we have to move on before we can settle for good. We moved on from misbah, sarfaraz, babar and now Salman as well?

What is the solution?
 
Nothing surpasses experience and the knowledge it brings.
The whole world recognizes Pakistan’s legacy in fast bowling — and deep down, you know it too, which is probably why it stings. But that’s just something you’ll have to accept.

I’m not interested in diving into the usual Pakistan vs India debate with every new indian who pops up here daily — we’ve got plenty of others here who enjoy that kind of back-and-forth.

However, when someone claims that Mohammad Asif, at his best, was only on par with Bhuvneshwar Kumar, then clearly something has gone missing in their understanding.
Lol no

Pakistan's fast bowling ended in the early 2000s. Not a single Pakistani pacer has taken 200 test wickets since Waqar.

Pakistani fans like to live in la la land.

Like I said above - Pakistanis like to live in delusion more than reality.

I have posted their respective stats and they are close.

Asif was a good bowler in helpful conditions as was Bhuvneshwar.

Bhuvi actually has an ICC trophy where he contributed with quick wickets (CT 2013). Asif doesn't.

And in tests, Bhuvi has MoMs in victories in SA as well as 5fers in victories in England, WI plus also at friendly decks at home. Very similar to Asif's CV.
 
Shaheen sets the tone each game with predictable bowling. He's kept his place due to batting and is therefore a banker in that regard as the batters also cannot do their job.

In UAE, pacers like Hassan are more likely to succeed on accuracy.
 
Pakistan needs to realize it’s not just the speedsters, it’s 90% of the team that are the problem.
 
Today, Haris bowled well but Shaheen didn't. They need to perform together to win against big teams.
 
Shaheen had zero swing. It was just gun-barrel straight. What's worse is that he doesn't seem to have the skillset to adapt anymore either.
 
Haris bowled pretty well today. Had he bowled fewer fuller deliveries the figures would have been even better. He seemed to have good awareness of the conditions...nice bit of aggression too.

Shaheen on the other hand.... :facepalm:
 
I've been saying for long time to get rid of this kpk mafia in our cricket m asif said it and got shouted down for being racist against these pathans

And start finding our bowlers where the original homeland is for our bowlers and household names were and that is punjab
Even that ik toshakhana is actually a punjabi and a fake pathan he is fully punjabi .

Even that rauf is originally from mansehra kpk .
 
There have been some signs that SSA has some rhythm back but he is hit too easily. His short ball has all the bite of a dead sheep and that is a major strike weapon of a fast bowler and he doesnt have it
 
I've been saying for long time to get rid of this kpk mafia in our cricket m asif said it and got shouted down for being racist against these pathans

And start finding our bowlers where the original homeland is for our bowlers and household names were and that is punjab
Even that ik toshakhana is actually a punjabi and a fake pathan he is fully punjabi .

Even that rauf is originally from mansehra kpk .
What the hell is this bigoted nonsense?
 
I've been saying for long time to get rid of this kpk mafia in our cricket m asif said it and got shouted down for being racist against these pathans

And start finding our bowlers where the original homeland is for our bowlers and household names were and that is punjab
Even that ik toshakhana is actually a punjabi and a fake pathan he is fully punjabi .

Even that rauf is originally from mansehra kpk .
Some of Pakistan's best quicks have been Pathan eg Imran Khan, Umar Gul. please name the Punjabi fast bowlers that are waiting in the wings.
 
I thought Rauf brought some heat today. 149.4 kph delivery to Abhishek. He can be harmful. But he is necessary for Pakistan. Probably Naseem shah can be brought in too. Pakistan suddenly thought they had the best spin attack in the world after winning UAE cup. Under pressure they were bowling half tracker after half tracker. So much half trackers that even put Shadab to shame. This is why novelty bowlers should not be hyped too soon. Give them fair bit of time before assessing.
 
I thought Rauf brought some heat today. 149.4 kph delivery to Abhishek. He can be harmful. But he is necessary for Pakistan. Probably Naseem shah can be brought in too. Pakistan suddenly thought they had the best spin attack in the world after winning UAE cup. Under pressure they were bowling half tracker after half tracker. So much half trackers that even put Shadab to shame. This is why novelty bowlers should not be hyped too soon. Give them fair bit of time before assessing.
Naseem should be kept away as far as possible. Truly garbage
 
I don't think our bowlers are bad but we are lacking a coherent strategy. Can't just hand the ball to anyone and hope for wickets especially if you're not going to back them up with fielding. The field placements today were atrocious, the bowlers don't bowl according to a plan.

Shaheen, Rauf and Abrar are better bowlers outside the PP, use them then. Give the PP to part timers, if they get hit so be it.
 
After seeing some bits of the game Haris Rauf showed some fight, good on him. SSA thinks he’s better than he really is and Naseem Shah is waiting to be picked. Wasim Jr isn’t bad either.

But as usual they never pick the best players, we have to wait for sheer luck for certain players to get to the first team.
 
I've been saying for long time to get rid of this kpk mafia in our cricket m asif said it and got shouted down for being racist against these pathans

And start finding our bowlers where the original homeland is for our bowlers and household names were and that is punjab
Even that ik toshakhana is actually a punjabi and a fake pathan he is fully punjabi .

Even that rauf is originally from mansehra kpk .
You are a racist loser. Save your crap for your media cell
 
I think the whole bowling strategy is awful. SSA, Haris are way too inconsistent
Faheem, Talat are just ordinary.

Abrar was ok but had a bad game. Nawaz is too stupid to keep in the team.
Saim will grow as a player.

But looked at as a whole it’s just a team without any coherent strategy a few guys that just run in and throw the ball and hope for the best.
 
Hesson went with this "modern" way of stacking the line up. Too many options. Left arm spin, right seamers 3 of them, left arm seamer, carrom ball bowler, mystery spinner, left arm spinner, part timer spinner. Agha with far too many options at his disposal got confused not knowing who to bowl.
 
I think the whole bowling strategy is awful. SSA, Haris are way too inconsistent
Faheem, Talat are just ordinary.

Abrar was ok but had a bad game. Nawaz is too stupid to keep in the team.
Saim will grow as a player.

But looked at as a whole it’s just a team without any coherent strategy a few guys that just run in and throw the ball and hope for the best.

I think playing allrounders and batting until #8 is not working for Pakistan

Especially when Haris doesn't get to bat and the "Number 1" spin bowler doesn't get to bowl

It works somewhat for India because we have an ultra aggresive lineup .

Pakistan probably need to dump an allrounder and play a proper bowler instead and just stick with Shaheen at #8.
 
I think playing allrounders and batting until #8 is not working for Pakistan

Especially when Haris doesn't get to bat and the "Number 1" spin bowler doesn't get to bowl

It works somewhat for India because we have an ultra aggresive lineup .

Pakistan probably need to dump an allrounder and play a proper bowler instead and just stick with Shaheen at #8.
They believe deep batting line up free the minds of top order. But it is doing the opposite. They can literally collapse out of nowhere. Luckily they ran into a very scratchy Bumrah today bowling full tosses. An usual Bumrah would have cleaned up the tail
 
They believe deep batting line up free the minds of top order. But it is doing the opposite. They can literally collapse out of nowhere. Luckily they ran into a very scratchy Bumrah today bowling full tosses. An usual Bumrah would have cleaned up the tail

That's exactly what deep batting lineups do. But you also need the players up top to pull it off.

Also, something about the Pakistani team's psyche. They just seem more comfortable with a bowling heavy balance.
 
There is no plan. We are trying to paper too many cracks and simultaneously have batting depth and bowling depth, but we don't even fully utilize the players.

If Nawaz ain't bowling he shouldn't be in the team as a standalone batsman.
 
That's exactly what deep batting lineups do. But you also need the players up top to pull it off.

Also, something about the Pakistani team's psyche. They just seem more comfortable with a bowling heavy balance.
Ya.. bowling heavy is good for them. But 3 or 4 cannot be part timers, or all rounders. He tried to cover so many bases almost trying to make pakistan team look like they have 22 players. He has to go with 4 genuine bowlers. ( one of them can be all rounder if they are genuine bowler ). One genuine all rounder. Probably Saim can do 6th bowling role. Rauf, Shaheen, Wasim (everyone says he is good), Abrar, Nawaz. So that is about 4 genuine bowlers plus one all rounder. Saim can bowl 6th. Then they pick the other six.
 
I think playing allrounders and batting until #8 is not working for Pakistan

Especially when Haris doesn't get to bat and the "Number 1" spin bowler doesn't get to bowl

It works somewhat for India because we have an ultra aggresive lineup .

Pakistan probably need to dump an allrounder and play a proper bowler instead and just stick with Shaheen at #8.
Yeah agree. I do like the idea of long batting to 8 but I don’t think it works in our team.

Haris, Shaheen and Abbas afridi should play. We are missing someone reliable like Abbas to offset the inconsistency of the other two. Faheem runs too hot and cold.

Nawaz as allrounder, Saim as a part timer and Abrar as a spinner, that’s three decent spin options already.

It really feels like we’re missing a batting allrounder at 7 rather than a bowling allrounder for t20s. That’s the issue. But there isn’t a good batting allrounder I can think of that we have. So we have no choice but to play a bowling one.
 
Farhan, Saim, Fakhar, Hasan, Haris, Agha the specialist captain (who is seriously a lullo T20 batsman). Rauf, Shaheen, Wasim, Abrar, Nawaz. That is about 7 specialist batsman
 
I think playing allrounders and batting until #8 is not working for Pakistan

Especially when Haris doesn't get to bat and the "Number 1" spin bowler doesn't get to bowl

It works somewhat for India because we have an ultra aggresive lineup .

Pakistan probably need to dump an allrounder and play a proper bowler instead and just stick with Shaheen at #8.
I don’t know. Since when having a team full of all rounders was a strategy? I can only think of newzealand and early Bangladesh packing this many all rounders. In actual fact Pak doesn’t have all rounders or spinners. These are genuinely untested good for nothings.

Primarily you need a very dependable set of fast bowlers and occasionally get 2-3 overs from a spinner if conditions suit. Shaheen just isn’t a bowler anymore I don’t care what anybody says. Harris is too unpredictable. That’s 8 overs. The other 12 have to be from genuinely canny bowlers.
 
Ya.. bowling heavy is good for them. But 3 or 4 cannot be part timers, or all rounders. He tried to cover so many bases almost trying to make pakistan team look like they have 22 players. He has to go with 4 genuine bowlers. ( one of them can be all rounder if they are genuine bowler ). One genuine all rounder. Probably Saim can do 6th bowling role. Rauf, Shaheen, Wasim (everyone says he is good), Abrar, Nawaz. So that is about 4 genuine bowlers plus one all rounder. Saim can bowl 6th. Then they pick the other six.
Wasim is not good. The problem with Pak bowlers is that they are ok in short bursts but every over there are loose balls and they spray it around so there is no working out and targeting batsmen and their weak areas.
 
Pakistan still have fast bowling raw talent but since long they have lost the art of converting talent into greatness. All talented fast bowlers from Pakistan these days come with an expiry date case in point Shaheen Afridi, Hasan ali in recent times…

Shaheen has lost his swing along with 5-10k reduction in speed in he’s in his mid 20s

Pakistan should move on to newer talents like Ali raza and ubaid shah soon and keep in mind that those guys also might have expiry date of 2-3 years
 
There should be an SOS call to the NCA honestly to sort out both Shaheen and Naseem. There should be specific plans to get them bowling to their absolute best and to actually monitor their improvement. I don't care if we get smashed in his tenure, but Hesson needs to sit down and figure out long term solutions rather than short term solutions in order to fix this mess.
 
There should be an SOS call to the NCA honestly to sort out both Shaheen and Naseem. There should be specific plans to get them bowling to their absolute best and to actually monitor their improvement. I don't care if we get smashed in his tenure, but Hesson needs to sit down and figure out long term solutions rather than short term solutions in order to fix this mess.
We are such a big mess honestly. Feel like everybody needs that sort of program. Most importantly the think tank needs to revisit strategy. Some positions in the xi will have to be redefined too.
 
Wasim is not good. The problem with Pak bowlers is that they are ok in short bursts but every over there are loose balls and they spray it around so there is no working out and targeting batsmen and their weak areas.
IN other words lack of bankable overs from seamers. India's 4 bankable overs today went to hell. Luckily 4 targettable overs from Dube compensated for it. You are looking for someone teams want to see off. Nowadays teams try to attack everyone. If they sense someone is good on that day they respect and go after others. India vs Australia went like that. INdia saw Hazlewood bowling impeccable line and length. Rohti paid respect. Hazlewood finished with 4 overs 25 runs. Where as Rohit picked 29 runs in one over from Starc. So you need more than 2 good bowlers hoping atleast two come good on a given day so that whatever damage that happens in other 12 overs can be offset by others. Back in 2009 T20 was played differently. Pakistan had 5 genuinely wicket taking options in Gul, Amir, Ajmal, Afridi, Razzaq. plus Malik could bowl.

2009 world cup winning bowling unit vs current one

Amir - Shaheen
Razzaq - Faheem
Saeed Ajmal - Abrar
Umar Gul - Haris Rauf
Shahid Afridi - Nawaz
Sohaib Malik - Saim

Both as individuals and as a unit that was a better bowling unit.
 
We are such a big mess honestly. Feel like everybody needs that sort of program. Most importantly the think tank needs to revisit strategy. Some positions in the xi will have to be redefined too.
You shouldn’t be losing bowlers like Shaheen and Naseem to the system, PCB needs to do what it can to make sure they monitor their improvement.
 
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