Trump targets H1bs, new policy hurts Indian immigrants

[Pakistanian]

usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/01/30/trump-targets-techs-h1b-visa-hiring-tool/97240588

Our old man Trump is now trying to cut down on H1bs to hire more American workers, he's making it more difficult for American employers to hire foreigners esp. Indians by raising the minimum pay to hire somebody from outside the country to $130,000! More than double than what it is right now and takes away the only incentive to bring foreigners cause they could work for less than an American.

 

[Nostalgic]

The trouble with the $130,000 figure (or any figure for that matter) is that it can mean wildly different standards of living, and different wage levels, in different parts of the country. There are still going to be plenty of tech jobs in the Bay Area with that salary. In rural parts, not so much.

 

[Pakistanian]

The trouble with the $130,000 figure (or any figure for that matter) is that it can mean wildly different standards of living, and different wage levels, in different parts of the country. There are still going to be plenty of tech jobs in the Bay Area with that salary. In rural parts, not so much.

In the south, only really experienced people make more than that in tech, anything over 60 grand here is considered upper middle class and I'm from a state that has the biggest tech industry outside Cali, we get a lot of Indians but this new policy might change that.

 

[sjahmed23]

He is not taking an executive action against H1b, he is letting congress do it. Which imo, is nothing more than a publicity stunt. He doesn't have the courage to take on the Indian lobbyists and interest groups. Notice that he never said a word against the Indians during his campaign who are probably as detrimental, if not more to the US worker than the chinese or mexicans.

 

[PakLFC]

He said "America first". That is what he will do I believe.

 

[srh]

H1b visas are used as slavery tool by Indian companies against Indians.

 

[Slog]

good move.

will reward the top talent

 

[JaDed]

As i said in the other thread,the visa was being exploited so something had to be done.

 

[Nostalgic]

In the south, only really experienced people make more than that in tech, anything over 60 grand here is considered upper middle class and I'm from a state that has the biggest tech industry outside Cali, we get a lot of Indians but this new policy might change that.

That's what I meant. There's a big difference between earning $100,000 or thereabouts in the Bay Area, which would barely buy you a middle-class existence, and earning that much in, say, rural Alabama, where that much would allow you to live like a king. So the $130,000 figure applied across the board nationally makes very little sense.

 

[JaDed]

That's what I meant. There's a big difference between earning $100,000 or thereabouts in the Bay Area, which would barely buy you a middle-class existence, and earning that much in, say, rural Alabama, where that much would allow you to live like a king. So the $130,000 figure applied across the board nationally makes very little sense.

That's only for H1b man,they can hire local techies for around 60-85k(or whatever suits their median),that is the reason for this bill,thereby stopping h1b being utilized by Indians and companies hiring locals.

 

[Nostalgic]

This is one policy I'm happy about, if it really does come to fruition. Less competition for the likes of yours truly, who thrive on flying under the radar and faking it just enough to avoid getting laid off.

Besides, my days of being on an H1B are long past, so I'm all for not only clamping down on it, but getting rid of it entirely.

 

[Nostalgic]

That's only for H1b man,they can hire local techies for around 60-85k(or whatever suits their median),that is the reason for this bill,thereby stopping h1b being utilized by Indians and companies hiring locals.

Right, I was only commenting on how an across-the-board figure, for H1B or otherwise, doesn't really make much sense. The same goes for minimum wage.

 

[JaDed]

Right, I was only commenting on how an across-the-board figure, for H1B or otherwise, doesn't really make much sense. The same goes for minimum wage.

Yes but this way only ones which are genius level probably having ms,phd who can earth that through research and what not will be given the visa thereby attracting the best talent not only the cheap ones.

The only way i see this backfiring is incase the move the jobs to Canada and exploit visa situation there or completely making it an offshore onsite model w.r.t 1:30 ratio.

 

[Nostalgic]

Yes but this way only ones which are genius level probably having ms,phd who can earth that through research and what not will be given the visa thereby attracting the best talent not only the cheap ones.

The only way i see this backfiring is incase the move the jobs to Canada and exploit visa situation there or completely making it an offshore onsite model w.r.t 1:30 ratio.

I wonder what the starting wage for a fresh MS from a good school is in the Bay Area. When I left grad school, slightly less than ten years ago, the classmates of mine who headed to California were starting out just short of six figures. I would imagine that the starting salary is probably approaching that $130,000 figure now. So like you said, they'll still be able to hire the grads from US schools, just not be able to bring them over from abroad at the lower salaries. They could potentially also hire really experienced people from abroad, people who at $130,000 may be a bargain, although such people may not be too plentiful.

What this would also do is really limit the hiring to companies and offices in SF, NY, Boston etc., places where such salaries can be justified.

 

[JaDed]

I wonder what the starting wage for a fresh MS from a good school is in the Bay Area. When I left grad school, slightly less than ten years ago, the classmates of mine who headed to California were starting out just short of six figures. I would imagine that the starting salary is probably approaching that $130,000 figure now. So like you said, they'll still be able to hire the grads from US schools, just not be able to bring them over from abroad at the lower salaries. They could potentially also hire really experienced people from abroad, people who at $130,000 may be a bargain, although such people may not be too plentiful.

What this would also do is really limit the hiring to companies and offices in SF, NY, Boston etc., places where such salaries can be justified.

Yes,don't think the figures are 130 k yet for every MS(excluding programmers from ivy) ,wages have been stagnant for atleast 10-20 years now in programming unless someone is from Cali.


Yes on the second point as well,it seems smallers companies were complaining that they are not able to hire talent from abroad compared to larger ones but don't think these companies would now hire anyone paying 130 k .

https://www.wired.com/2004/02/india/

What America doesn't realize as stated in the article above from 2004 is

There is some solace in history. Agricultural jobs turned into even more manufacturing jobs, which decades later turned into even more service jobs. The cycle of work turns and turns again

When they gave away these jobs,they turned to IT designing/innovtion and in the last 10 years in tech atleast they have come up with some of the best platforms,frameworks and all for free thereby making it reach a global level.
I don't mean to be offensive to any coder here but American ones were obviously better at innovation and one can clearly see the rise from licensed software to free on demand Big data types don't think such things would had happened if the guys were doing "copy/paste" coding from google.

 

[JaDed]

[MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] ,as i was saying the below is a possiblility.

Silicon Valley is making plans to move foreign-born workers to Canada
https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/31/in-silicon-valley-plotting-to-get-foreign-born-workers-to-vancouver/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29&utm_content=FaceBook&sr_share=facebook

 

[Pollack]

Whites are usually into MBA ,management and arts. Those who pursue tech generally get into research or academics. As such foreign workers provide skilled workforce at lesser salary.

 

[Pakistanian]

Whites are usually into MBA ,management and arts. Those who pursue tech generally get into research or academics. As such foreign workers provide skilled workforce at lesser salary.

My white roommates and their girlfriends are all in tech, you couldn't be more wrong.

 

[Pollack]

My white roommates and their girlfriends are all in tech, you couldn't be more wrong.

But your white roommates and their girlfriends do not constitute entire America.I did not say they are not into tech at all. Anyway that is the perception. I may still be wrong.Some surveys might help if there are any. But I am too lazy to dig them out.

 

[Pakistanian]

But your white roommates and their girlfriends do not constitute entire America.I did not say they are not into tech at all. Anyway that is the perception. I may still be wrong.Some surveys might help if there are any. But I am too lazy to dig them out.

Most CompSci and engineering majors are white, though proportionally Asians may outnumber them.

 

[Pollack]

Most CompSci and engineering majors are white, though proportionally Asians may outnumber them.

They get into research,academics or become entrepreneur.

 

[JaDed]

Most CompSci and engineering majors are white, though proportionally Asians may outnumber them.

They are into copy/paste tech?? Most whites who I had to deal with are actually innovative designers and coders not like an average H1b 65k copy/paste coder.

 

[JaDed]

They get into research,academics or become entrepreneur.

Not all,there are many designers, architects innovative ones who are not necessarily into research,just that they won't for peanuts with slave hours.

 

[Pakistanian]

They are into copy/paste tech?? Most whites who I had to deal with are actually innovative designers and coders not like an average H1b 65k copy/paste coder.

Dude this isn't my field of work so I got no idea, but i'll take your word for it cause a lot of fresh off the boat people I've met from south asia didn't speak English that well. I'm surprised they can keep their jobs without communication skills. They're probably treated like slaves.

 

[JaDed]

Dude this isn't my field of work so I got no idea, but i'll take your word for it cause a lot of fresh off the boat people I've met from south asia didn't speak English that well. I'm surprised they can keep their jobs without communication skills. They're probably treated like slaves.

Don't think many have issue with communication in H1b if not they would probably flunk the visa interview ,I would know I work in that field.

They are not treated like slaves by whites but by the South Asian Managers themselves and coding for 65k doesn't have much to do with communication but by understanding the models created and working on the design given.

 

[Stallion__]

This isn't an executive order. It's a bill which needed to be passed from both house before it can reach Mr. Trump. Two such bills (HR 5801 and HR170) have been introduced in last 8 months. Both didn't reach the House and Senate since they couldn't even clear the consideration committee.

Even with Republicans in majority in both houses, Trump will have it much harder in this one.

 

[troodon]

All this means is there will be more outsourcing to companies in Bangalore/Pune/Gurgaon...

If companies are stopped from getting H1B's from India/China/Philippines etc, those same companies will hire techies in India.

My company owner is a huge trump supporter who was against H1B's. He could not stop himself from hiring a startup company in India to create a mobile app for his product. All this to save 100k dollars.

A guy here in US demanded $120k to do the app. Some dude in India said he can do the same for $12k

My boss said YES with abig smile on his face.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Donald Trump is basically the legitimate face of the Tea Party. Anyone who thought he or his supporters only concern was Muslims is in for a rude shock. The rust belt voters want jobs and manufacturing for themselves and their families, not Indians or Mexicans coming from overseas.

 

[Syed1]

Whites are usually into MBA ,management and arts. Those who pursue tech generally get into research or academics. As such foreign workers provide skilled workforce at lesser salary.

Not true. In my mechanical engineering graduating class I'd say most of the Arabs and desis (excluding me and a few others) have secured employment which does not use their engineering degree and have gone into more management fields. However, the majority of the 'whites' are working engineering jobs.

The fact is if a white person gets into engineering he is most likely doing it because he likes it and not because his parents gave him two options of either engineer or doctor.

 

[sshakir411]

yeah, good luck filling those jobs.

 

[Syed1]

One jugaar the desis can use is that they come to Canada and get Canadian citizenship (total time is 7 years, you need 4 years of Canadian degree, 1 year of work experience then you apply for PR, after getting PR you have to spend 2 more years in Canada and you get citizenship)

Once you are Canadian citizen you do not need H1b to work in US, instead you a TN permit which is easier to get and also renewed easily.


Kafi long game hai, but if you are absolutely dying to get to the States by hook or crook then you can take this karvi goli. Besides many US companies have offices in Canada and more are coming each day since the Canadian dollar is considerably weaker to the US these days and it is alot cheaper for US companies to operate out of Canada.


Besides being a canuck is more respectable then being a yank

 

[CricketCartoons]

lol. this policy will only hurt the US. No wonder a shocking half of the population is below average IQ.

 

[JaDed]

One jugaar the desis can use is that they come to Canada and get Canadian citizenship (total time is 7 years, you need 4 years of Canadian degree, 1 year of work experience then you apply for PR, after getting PR you have to spend 2 more years in Canada and you get citizenship)

Once you are Canadian citizen you do not need H1b to work in US, instead you a TN permit which is easier to get and also renewed easily.


Kafi long game hai, but if you are absolutely dying to get to the States by hook or crook then you can take this karvi goli. Besides many US companies have offices in Canada and more are coming each day since the Canadian dollar is considerably weaker to the US these days and it is alot cheaper for US companies to operate out of Canada.


Besides being a canuck is more respectable then being a yank

https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/31/in-silicon-valley-plotting-to-get-foreign-born-workers-to-vancouver/

Still far fetched, apparently its already being done for ones who visas didn't get selected in the lottery.

 

[Syed1]

lol. this policy will only hurt the US. No wonder a shocking half of the population is below average IQ.

Funny you say that because the computer you are typing through, the operating system it is using and the internet through which the message is relayed are all American inventions.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Their country. Their rules.

 

[Slog]

But your white roommates and their girlfriends do not constitute entire America.I did not say they are not into tech at all. Anyway that is the perception. I may still be wrong.Some surveys might help if there are any. But I am too lazy to dig them out.

you are right

tech jobs in states are disproportionately asian/indian

 

[Slog]

One jugaar the desis can use is that they come to Canada and get Canadian citizenship (total time is 7 years, you need 4 years of Canadian degree, 1 year of work experience then you apply for PR, after getting PR you have to spend 2 more years in Canada and you get citizenship)

Once you are Canadian citizen you do not need H1b to work in US, instead you a TN permit which is easier to get and also renewed easily.


Kafi long game hai, but if you are absolutely dying to get to the States by hook or crook then you can take this karvi goli. Besides many US companies have offices in Canada and more are coming each day since the Canadian dollar is considerably weaker to the US these days and it is alot cheaper for US companies to operate out of Canada.


Besides being a canuck is more respectable then being a yank

haha i know a few people who are doing it. only discovered abt their long game recently

have to say. Props for such forward planning

when i was applying for unis i didnt know what ill be doing in my 2nd semester let along 10 years out.

though you wonder spending 7-8 years just as a stop over of sorts to get to another place.....youll die of misery and the wait

 

[Slog]

This is one policy I'm happy about, if it really does come to fruition. Less competition for the likes of yours truly, who thrive on flying under the radar and faking it just enough to avoid getting laid off.

Besides, my days of being on an H1B are long past, so I'm all for not only clamping down on it, but getting rid of it entirely.

lol legendary post

hows the good old centennial state?

 

[Nostalgic]

lol legendary post

hows the good old centennial state?

Lovely as ever. The Manitou Incline has been repaired and is open again. I'm planning on going there one of these days and burning 5,000 calories in two hours, followed by a week of sleep and binge eating.

 

[Justcrazy]

Trump is on a mission.

 

[SandyB]

Not true. In my mechanical engineering graduating class I'd say most of the Arabs and desis (excluding me and a few others) have secured employment which does not use their engineering degree and have gone into more management fields. However, the majority of the 'whites' are working engineering jobs.

The fact is if a white person gets into engineering he is most likely doing it because he likes it and not because his parents gave him two options of either engineer or doctor.

That is the saddest part.. Us desis(not sure how it works in Pak or SL) are taught to only care about the paycheck and the social status when it comes to picking careers .. Which is why we end up producing tons of incompetent or disinterested graduates in engineering or medical fields.. Even the civil services are only encouraged for the prestige the jobs bring and the opportunity for huge bribes .. Shouldn't people become doctors if they actually care about saving lives and civil servants because they actually want to SERVE ?

The whole H1B scenario is a by product of that mentality . The tons of Engineers coming out of India each year need jobs. And no other sector employs as many people or has even close to the opportunities that IT has. So most go to IT by default. They are ready to work for whatever pittance the company pays, because in India where the money is made is far more important to most middle to low income people than how much..So a chance to work in the US or other countries is a way of salvaging something out of this crappy career (i'm talking about the general mentality, not the people who actually like this job) .. So people go there even if its barely for a few weeks..

One of my cousins working in a smaller Indain IT firm was taken on-site to Australia for 3 weeks for an implementation. She was paid just 150 Australian dollars per day additionally over her India salary .. She said they actually ended up spending far more of her own money through the trip than earning anything .. Because you can do very little in Aus for that kind of money ..

Recently one of the founders of Infosys said " these days a graduate can make far more money driving Uber's or Ola cabs in Bangalore than doing a starting IT position." . But if you do it , your'e still a "driver" in our desi feudalistic perception . Most people will take working in a fancy air conditioned building getting paid peanuts over that !!

Atleast this ban will force companies to actually improve R& D in India. Outsourcing will increase a lot, and companies will look at alternative venues for business, with the domestic market being the one of the top prospect ..

 

[JaDed]

That is the saddest part.. Us desis(not sure how it works in Pak or SL) are taught to only care about the paycheck and the social status when it comes to picking careers .. Which is why we end up producing tons of incompetent or disinterested graduates in engineering or medical fields.. Even the civil services are only encouraged for the prestige the jobs bring and the opportunity for huge bribes .. Shouldn't people become doctors if they actually care about saving lives and civil servants because they actually want to SERVE ?

The whole H1B scenario is a by product of that mentality . The tons of Engineers coming out of India each year need jobs. And no other sector employs as many people or has even close to the opportunities that IT has. So most go to IT by default. They are ready to work for whatever pittance the company pays, because in India where the money is made is far more important to most middle to low income people than how much..So a chance to work in the US or other countries is a way of salvaging something out of this crappy career (i'm talking about the general mentality, not the people who actually like this job) .. So people go there even if its barely for a few weeks..

One of my cousins working in a smaller Indain IT firm was taken on-site to Australia for 3 weeks for an implementation. She was paid just 150 Australian dollars per day additionally over her India salary .. She said they actually ended up spending far more of her own money through the trip than earning anything .. Because you can do very little in Aus for that kind of money ..

Recently one of the founders of Infosys said " these days a graduate can make far more money driving Uber's or Ola cabs in Bangalore than doing a starting IT position." . But if you do it , your'e still a "driver" in our desi feudalistic perception . Most people will take working in a fancy air conditioned building getting paid peanuts over that !!

Atleast this ban will force companies to actually improve R& D in India. Outsourcing will increase a lot, and companies will look at alternative venues for business, with the domestic market being the one of the top prospect ..

That same Infy founder is the reason Indians are getting peanuts it was his product ,he is the biggest example of setting up "body shops" and then taking all the profits and moving out.

 

[Pollack]

It is not going to encourage R &D in India.That is wishful thinking. There are many reasons why its not viable in India at the moment.

 

[Ankit007]

It is not going to encourage R &D in India.That is wishful thinking. There are many reasons why its not viable in India at the moment.

I think it will improve the mindset of people here. They will try not to hire people from outside as much as possible and groom and improve technology in India itself. And it will lead to better understanding of technology in Indian people.

 

[JaDed]

I think it will improve the mindset of people here. They will try not to hire people from outside as much as possible and groom and improve technology in India itself. And it will lead to better understanding of technology in Indian people.

Unless we ban google fb amazon uber don't think it will encourage anything,China was able to do that and they setup their own tech but there is no gurantee similar things will work for India

 

[troodon]

Lots of jealous American bozos spewing venom against Indians with baseless claims.

Yes, H1B is exploited by some start up/Staffing companies who prop up the experience of the candidate. Those needs to be clamped down.

But even a Joe working in Burger king is also blaming Indians and H1B visa for his miserable state.

If Americans showed any interest in academics, they would be in a far better shape when it comes to jobs. They are into sports/Literature/Music etc. Then they wonder why Microsoft/Google/Facebook/Oracle/Amazon hire Indians.

Just look at the number of Americans to Indians/Chinese/Vietnamese etc in any university in IT/mechanical/Electrical etc Bachelors and Masters Programs. Americans do not study. They want everything easy. They enjoy all through their teen years by wasting time on sports, booze, girl friends and then when they have to do a low end job, they whine.

Let Trump ban H1B's completely. All IT and Tech giants will hire more and more workers in India. Means more projects to Ifosys/TCS/Tech Mahindra/Wipro etc.

 

[troodon]

Another thing is when American brands entered Indian market in early 90's, they destroyed all local brands. The brands that I used to see as a kid have totally disappeared. Many Indian businesses have closed as they could not compete with American Giants.

Americans are now feeling the heat of Indians taking their jobs. When it was Americans who preached globalization to India and entered Indian markets and made billions while killing many local brands and people losing tons of jobs.

 

[Pollack]

But even a Joe working in Burger king is also blaming Indians and H1B visa for his miserable state.

Well said bro.

If Americans showed any interest in academics, they would be in a far better shape when it comes to jobs. They are into sports/Literature/Music etc. Then they wonder why Microsoft/Google/Facebook/Oracle/Amazon hire Indians.

They do show interests in academics.The number of people opting for tech compared to other is however disproportional.

Just look at the number of Americans to Indians/Chinese/Vietnamese etc in any university in IT/mechanical/Electrical etc Bachelors and Masters Programs.

I am not sure if they outnumber others in college or academic setup.But that is irrelevant.This still doesn't change the fact that american by and large don't favour tech as a first choice.

Americans do not study. They want everything easy. They enjoy all through their teen years by wasting time on sports, booze, girl friends and then when they have to do a low end job, they whine.

Far from truth.They have the most all round development that Desi's can only be envious of.

Let Trump ban H1B's completely. All IT and Tech giants will hire more and more workers in India. Means more projects to Ifosys/TCS/Tech Mahindra/Wipro etc.

[/QUOTE]

Let the fun begin. I think it would do more harm than good to American s. But let's see.

 

[Slog]

But even a Joe working in Burger king is also blaming Indians and H1B visa for his miserable state.
.

LMAO. Well said.

Im using that line in future when needed

There is a point to the argument they make and in my exp it is def exploited by the indian firms. But the funny thing is that the people most affected by it arent the ones usually complaining because they work hard enough and are talented enough to make it work some other way. But the guy flipping burgers cannot develoop programs regardless of what visa policy is there

 

[JaDed]

Lots of jealous American bozos spewing venom against Indians with baseless claims.

Yes, H1B is exploited by some start up/Staffing companies who prop up the experience of the candidate. Those needs to be clamped down.

But even a Joe working in Burger king is also blaming Indians and H1B visa for his miserable state.

If Americans showed any interest in academics, they would be in a far better shape when it comes to jobs. They are into sports/Literature/Music etc. Then they wonder why Microsoft/Google/Facebook/Oracle/Amazon hire Indians.

Just look at the number of Americans to Indians/Chinese/Vietnamese etc in any university in IT/mechanical/Electrical etc Bachelors and Masters Programs. Americans do not study. They want everything easy. They enjoy all through their teen years by wasting time on sports, booze, girl friends and then when they have to do a low end job, they whine.

Let Trump ban H1B's completely. All IT and Tech giants will hire more and more workers in India. Means more projects to Ifosys/TCS/Tech Mahindra/Wipro etc.

Im actually enjoying some of the delusions one of comments there were many among similar lines it was something like ,have to work in Popeyes chicken because couldn't get a programming job due of h1b cheap labour.

 

[Syed1]

This opposition to H1B visas is due to the ingrained white privilege that these people have. The color of their skins opened a lot of doors for them, but at one point talent and hardwork overcame the privilege they were afforded due to their skin color and this is not acceptable to them.

 

[Tera Gawaandi]

Funny you say that because the computer you are typing through, the operating system it is using and the internet through which the message is relayed are all American inventions.

Father of the Intel Pentium chip is Indian Punjabi Vinod Dham.

Father of fiber optics is Indian Punjabi Sikh, Narinder Singh, he is from my hometown.

Indians have contributed a lot, another Punjabi Sabeer Bhatia invented Hotmail.

 

[Syed1]

Father of the Intel Pentium chip is Indian Punjabi Vinod Dham.

Father of fiber optics is Indian Punjabi Sikh, Narinder Singh, he is from my hometown.

Indians have contributed a lot, another Punjabi Sabeer Bhatia invented Hotmail.

Sir they are off Indian origin but America provided them the opportunity and education to do what they did. Why is it that an Indian migrates to America and becomes Google's CEO, but we are not seeing more Googles come out of India itself.

 

[Gubol123]

Sir they are off Indian origin but America provided them the opportunity and education to do what they did. Why is it that an Indian migrates to America and becomes Google's CEO, but we are not seeing more Googles come out of India itself.

it will take time. but India is actually one of the hotspots of startups . http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...tartups-in-the-world/articleshow/56821054.cms

 

[JaDed]

it will take time. but India is actually one of the hotspots of startups . http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...tartups-in-the-world/articleshow/56821054.cms

Meh our startups are basically bubble looking for finance and being bough off which is similar to the ones in America right now,only Zomato tried to venture out but has not done that well.

Ola,Flipkart have also started crying "globalization" is unfair trash.To setup business in India one needs discipline and long term investment and cannot expect a "system".

eg:Reliance,Airtel this is excluding Tata,Birla,Godrej,Wadias for obvious reasons.