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[VIDEOS] Can JF-17 Thunder take on the big guys? How good is it in aerial combat?

Lovely... Block 3 is also around the corner. It is slated to be true 4.5 gen with AESA radar. That will put a few cats amongst the pigeons. The Blk 3 with its AESA radar will also be able to be equipped with Chinese PL-15 BVR missile with range far higher than anything the Rafale is capable of shooting, at the moment.

(In layman terms the Rafale will have to get alot closer to the Blk 3, than the Blk3 will have to get to it for them to shoot at eachother)


That being said the Rafale is a very potent and dangerous jet and may have a few tricks up its sleeve as well.
 
Lovely... Block 3 is also around the corner. It is slated to be true 4.5 gen with AESA radar. That will put a few cats amongst the pigeons. The Blk 3 with its AESA radar will also be able to be equipped with Chinese PL-15 BVR missile with range far higher than anything the Rafale is capable of shooting, at the moment.

(In layman terms the Rafale will have to get alot closer to the Blk 3, than the Blk3 will have to get to it for them to shoot at eachother)


That being said the Rafale is a very potent and dangerous jet and may have a few tricks up its sleeve as well.

I don't think these are dedicated EW platforms. The initial batch is standard 2 seater for type conversion.
If this was a dedicated EW platform, you would see a extra EW Antennae or fairings on the wingtip and back spine. I could be wrong. We did purchase 200+ Mar-1 Anti Radiation missile from Brazil plus LD-10s so may be true. There was demand from foreign customers for a 2 seat trainer, PAF on the other hand had no trouble converting pilots from F-7/Mirages. It is a dream to fly.

I don't like the term Growler though. US Navy started calling EF-18G as growlers which replaced the EA-6B prowlers. So now everybody calls EW offensive platforms Growlers.

The term should be Wild Weasel aka Mongoose/Naevla paying homage to the first true SAM hunters from the Vietnam era the F-105G & F-4G Wild Weasels.

The term comes from Cobra hunting mongoose. Cobra is deadly and a much feared predator. A mongoose relishes a good fight with the cobra. It toys with it, kills it and enjoys a yummy snack. An analogy of SAMs being the hunter and the weasels going after the hunter -- Hunter Killers
 
Lovely... Block 3 is also around the corner. It is slated to be true 4.5 gen with AESA radar. That will put a few cats amongst the pigeons. The Blk 3 with its AESA radar will also be able to be equipped with Chinese PL-15 BVR missile with range far higher than anything the Rafale is capable of shooting, at the moment.

(In layman terms the Rafale will have to get alot closer to the Blk 3, than the Blk3 will have to get to it for them to shoot at eachother)


That being said the Rafale is a very potent and dangerous jet and may have a few tricks up its sleeve as well.

Reported earlier-

PL-15 BVR

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PL-15 BVR on J-20

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A Russian company announced on Wednesday that a new engine for fighter aircraft that it had developed has been shipped for conducting thermal pressure chamber tests.

The state-owned United Engine Corporation controls development and manufacturing of all engines for military, civilian and space use in Russia and for Russian exports. The UEC's Klimov plant in St Petersburg had been developing the RD-93MA engine, which is a modification of the RD-93 engine, used on the JF-17 fighter, being built by Pakistan and China.

In a press release on its website on Wednesday, UEC said the RD-93MA engine had been shipped from St. Petersburg to Moscow for thermal pressure chamber trials at the Central Institute of Aviation Motors (CIAM). The pressure chamber trials at CIAM are expected to subject the RD-93MA engine to simulated heat and altitude conditions the power-plant would experience in actual flight.

The UEC press release states, "The RD-93MA engine has improved performance. In particular, increased thermodynamic parameters, an improved design of the fan and the hot part, an upgraded automatic power-plant control system... An additional emergency engine start mode was provided... and the possibility of emergency fuel drain was realised. All this is due to the specifics associated with the possible use of the power-plant on a single-engine aircraft..."

The reference to use in single-engine aircraft has given rise to speculation that the new engine is destined for the JF-17 fighter. This is because Russia does not have any active single-engine fighter project at the moment.

According to reports, the RD-93MA engine can produce maximum thrust of 9,300 kgf (kilogram-force). The RD-93MA would have significantly greater thrust than the existing RD-93 engine used on Pakistan's JF-17 fighter, which can produce maximum thrust of 8,300kgf, according to UEC.

Having a new engine offers advantages in addition to increased thrust in combat situations. In December, Chinese state media confirmed that the latest version of the JF-17, dubbed the JF-17 Block 3, had made its maiden flight. The upgraded fighter will have new electronically scanned radar and other electronics, all of which necessitate higher power requirements than can be met by the existing power-plant.

Pakistan has already built over 100 JF-17 fighters for its air force and officials have indicated 62 JF-17 Block 3 fighters will be ordered by 2024.

In 2015, IHS Jane’s Defense Weekly reported Pakistan would continue to use Russian engines for the JF-17 even though China was developing an alternate engine. “We are completely satisfied with this Russian-made engine,” an official Pakistan Aeronautical Complex had told IHS Jane’s Defense Weekly. Pakistani officials had claimed "changing to another engine would not make any sense and would be disruptive and cause a huge expense for the JF-17 programme".

Interestingly, the RD-93 has a connection to India. The RD-93 is developed from the RD-33 engine that powers the MiG-29UPG fighters of the Indian Air Force and MiG-29K jets of the Indian Navy. India operates over 60 MiG-29UPG jets and about 40 MiG-29K fighters. The government recently cleared the purchase of 21 MiG-29 fighters for the Indian Air Force.

Despite repeated Indian protests in the past two decades, Russia has continued supply of the RD-93 to China and Pakistan.

https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2...w-jet-engine-is-it-for-pak-jf-17-fighter.html
 
How much do these 14 jf-17 cost in total in us dollars?

What are they equipped with
Nigeria had inked a contract to purchase three JF-17 Block II fighter jets and the deal was formally set in motion in March 2019 when the Pakistani government's Economic Coordination Committee (ECC) approved a $184.3 million sovereign guarantee covering the delivery of three PAC/CAC JF-17 Thunder fighter jets to the Nigerian Air Force.

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/26995/Nigerian_JF_17_jets_Commence_User_Testing_in_Pakistan

Around $64 million each.
 
Good thing for PAF is Rafaele is too expensive to be the standard IAF jet so they will be used like we use F16s

So we don't have a proper answer to Rafaele it's too good but it's also too expensive (kinda reminds of dinemic between tiger tank vs sherman)

Good thing for PAF this block 3 JF-17 is slightly better than SU-30 (future standard IAF jet)

So we can still stay competitive despite the growing economic differences...
 
ISLAMABAD: Indian Air Force’s Rafael jets will no longer be as lethal as it hoped them to be as the Pakistan Air Force announced on Wednesday the serial production of the 4.5-generation aircraft of the most advanced variant of JF-17 Thunder Block III.

The start of production was announced at a ceremony at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), Kamra where the PAF was also handed over the 14 state-of-the-art indigenously developed dual seater JF-17B Thunder Block-II fighter jets.

Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan called the the new jets a “significant milestone” in the history of the country.

The air chief said that the JF-17 Thunder had been proven as a battle-tested aircraft during the Operation Swift Retort against IAF’s intrusion into Pakistan’s territorial sovereignty on February 27, 2019.

The ceremony also marked the announcement of serial production of PAF’s most advanced 4.5 generation JF-17 Thunder Block III jets.

Read more: China boosted production of JF-17 fighter jets jointly developed with Pakistan

The air chief commended PAC for the in-time completion of the project by the Aircraft Manufacturing Factory (AMF) team involved in the development of the advance generation of the dual seater JF-17B Thunder and Block-III jets version.

“The year of 2020 has been very challenging due to the COVID-19 pandemic as it disturbed life all over the world. It also inflicted serious impacts on the PAC project of JF-17B Thunder Block-III as the entire complex has remained under lockdown,” said Air Chief Marshal Mujahid.

The PAF chief lauded PAC Kamra for upholding its traditions despite the most challenging times of the pandemic.

“I would like to commend the entire team and PAC leadership including chairman PAC and managing director AMF for their concerted efforts to meet the project deadlines,” said Air Chief Marshal Mujahid.

The PAF head said that PAC was the backbone of PAF’s operational readiness and had displayed their capabilities to meet challenges with limited resources at the optimum level.

The air chief also extended his gratitude to the Ministry of Defence Production and Chinese Aviation Industry for their continuous support.

“The dual seat version of JF-17B and the production of Block-III marks the achievement of a significant milestone as it will play an important and significant role in geostrategic milieu due to the technology installed in the modern aircraft,” said the PAF chief.

Earlier, PAC Chairman Air Marshal Syed Nauman Ali briefed the participants over the project details and highlighted that JF-17 Thunder would be the shining symbol of cooperation between Pakistan and China.

He said due to COVID-19 lockdown in PAC, technicians and experts completed the project in due time despite many odds where the Chinese experts supported PAC extraordinarily for meeting the programme targets.

Speaking on the occasion, Chinese Ambassador Nong Rong said PAC’s successful acquiring of the capacity to build JF-17B Thunder Block-III aircraft has set up a perfect model of Pak-China friendship.

“Pakistan has become self-sufficient in developing JF-17 Thunder and an advance fighter aircraft producing country in the world. JF-17 Thunder has finally become the backbone of Pakistan’s defence,” said the envoy.

He hoped it would further strengthen the defence ties between Pakistan and China. “Pakistan and China’s close collaboration will bring more success in the future.”
 
Good thing for PAF is Rafaele is too expensive to be the standard IAF jet so they will be used like we use F16s

So we don't have a proper answer to Rafaele it's too good but it's also too expensive (kinda reminds of dinemic between tiger tank vs sherman)

Good thing for PAF this block 3 JF-17 is slightly better than SU-30 (future standard IAF jet)

So we can still stay competitive despite the growing economic differences...

Rafaele is a short term solution, as it isn't developed by Indian air force and IAF will always depend on buying newer versions.

On the other hand, PAF with invaluable collaboration of Chinese are developing JF-17 Thunders at home, they can improve their capabilities continuously because of their "blocks construct nature" and do not need to spend ridiculous amount of $ to stay competitive.

I believe this is a very important factor.

Even if Rafaele (what an ugly name btw) is better than JF-17s but it is a finished and rapidly becoming obsolete as years pass by.

Don't sweat, PAF have been planning for them from day 0 ;) ⛈️⚡⛈️

Even F16s are improved each year.
 
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If Ind gains an air advantage then the situation will become dangerous and unstable.

If IAF work their socks off and PAF get totally complacent then maybe.

But PAF are already getting ready with Chinese collaboration. So expect PAF to rule the air for upcoming decades.
 
The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra formally handed over three JF-17 Thunder aircraft to the Nigerian Air Force during a ceremony held at Nigerian Air Force base Makudri to mark the 57th anniversary of the Nigerian Air Force on Friday, a Pakistan Air Force (PAF) press release said.

Nigerian Defence Minister Major General (Rtd) Bashir Magashi was the guest of honour at the ceremony, representing the Nigerian president, whereas the PAF vice chief of the air staff, Air Marshal Syed Noman Ali, was invited to attend the ceremony as the special guest of the Nigerian Air Force.

Addressing the ceremony, Magashi expressed his gratitude to Pakistan and the PAF for sustained bilateral cooperation and partnership for enhancing the Nigerian Air Force’s capabilities to meet Nigeria’s security challenges.

Referring to the new induction, he said, “We are happy and excited on the addition of JF-17 fighter aircraft from Pakistan.”

Air Marshal Ali said the event was not just a historical landmark for Pakistan’s JF-17 programme, but was also a reflection of the strong military cooperation and mutual trust between Nigeria and Pakistan.

He further stated that the JF-17 aircraft, with its unique fighting capabilities, would prove to be a potent platform in addressing the security requirements of Nigeria.

Air Marshal Ali also said the PAF and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex would continue to provide all-out support to the Nigerian Air Force in meeting all its requirements.

DAWN
 
Argentina to purchase JF-17 ‘Thunder’ jets from Pakistan

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“ARGENTINA SELECTS PAKISTAN’S THUNDER JET – The Government of Argentina has officially included $664 Million in funding for the purchase of 12 PAC JF-17A Block III fighters from Pakistan in a draft budget for 2022 presented to its Parliament.”
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JF-17-PAF-main.jpg


https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/argentina-to-purchase-jf-17-thunder-jets-from-pakistan/

https://www.aviacionline.com/2021/09/argentina-allocates-664m-for-jf-17-block-iii-purchase-in-fy2022/
 
Awesome news. Hopefully it goes through.

Nigeria is also hinting at buying 36+ more

We should be cautious. The Argentinians have a habit of messing things up. Especially their economy so I won't be jumping around until a proper deal is signed.

The Nigerian one is more concrete cos we already sold them some and they have used them to fight boko..they are happy and always had an option to buy more..

Hoping Azerbaijaan also buy some but let's see..
 
Argentina likely to buy 12 JF-17 Thunder jets from Pakistan: report

Buenos Aires has set aside about $664 million in next year's budget for the purchase

LAHORE:
The Argentinian government is planning to acquire 12 JF-17A Block III fighters from Pakistan and has reportedly set aside $664 million in funding for the purchase of the said aircraft, according to reports.

According to UK Defence Journal, a website focused on defence matters, the government of Argentina “has officially included $664 Million in funding for the purchase of 12 PAC JF-17A Block III fighters from Pakistan in a draft budget for 2022 presented to its Parliament”.

The move to buy the aircraft jointly built by Pakistan Aeronautical Complex and China’s Chengdu Aircraft Corporation came after South Korea refused to sell the jets to Buenos Aires last year owing to British pressure, the report said.

Similarly, Sweden’s Saab AB in 2015 ruled out facilitating the sale of Gripen fighter aircraft to Argentina as the result of a deal to build and export combat jets from Brazil, Reuters reported at the time.

It may be noted here that Britain had imposed an embargo on Argentina after the Falkland War in 1982, hampering the sale of military equipment to Argentina. A former Argentine defence minister had last year described the move as British “imperial pride”.

Read Pakistan Navy inducts first jet-powered long-range maritime patrol aircraft

However, it is yet to be seen if the deal with Pakistan will go through because of the JF-17’s ejector seat being built by a British company - Martin Baker.

A report in MercoPress, South Atlantic News Agency, said that the Argentine air force is almost grounded since, besides the 50+ aircraft lost during the Falklands conflict, it has been unable to replace them, be it for financial reasons or the UK embargo.

What is the JF-17?

The JF-17 Thunder is a single-engine multi-role combat aircraft developed jointly by the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex and the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation of China. The builders say that the JF-17 can be used for multiple roles, including interception, ground attack, anti-ship, and aerial reconnaissance.

58% of the JF-17 airframe, including its front fuselage, wings and vertical stabiliser is produced in Pakistan, whereas 42% is produced in China, with the final assembly taking place in Pakistan.


http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?228430-VIDEOS-Can-JF-17-Thunder-take-on-the-big-guys-How-good-is-it-in-aerial-combat/page3
 
Pakistan needs to go one step further , get China to transfer j10 technology and develop its own in house j10 variant with the Russian sukhoi engine .

That way we can get rid of f16 and old mirages.

Best way is self reliance with aid of friendly countries .

Turkish companies can help with the avionics.
 
We should be cautious. The Argentinians have a habit of messing things up. Especially their economy so I won't be jumping around until a proper deal is signed.

The Nigerian one is more concrete cos we already sold them some and they have used them to fight boko..they are happy and always had an option to buy more..

Hoping Azerbaijaan also buy some but let's see..

Hence I said "Hopefully" it goes through. US can act as a spoiler offering them with EDA F-16 Blk 40/52 with a good A2A capability with AMRAAMs and Sidewinders to counter any regional country but without Harpoons (Anti Ship missiles) to allay any British misgivings. But then I also think Chinese may sweeten the pot by providing very attractive financing options for the deal just to **** off the Brits in light of their new AUKUS misadventure. We already had to swap out Martin Baker ejection seats for Chinese version to circumvent any British objections.

Let's see how it plays out.

Next up Malaysia & Azerbaijan. Icing on the cake would be a 150+ order for the Egyptian Airforce that needs a 4.5 gen fighter to replace bulk of their Mig21/J7/Mirage V inventory. Yes I know they have just bought Rafales, Su 35s and Mig 35 but all those are a different class of fighters.
 
Good thing for PAF is Rafaele is too expensive to be the standard IAF jet so they will be used like we use F16s

So we don't have a proper answer to Rafaele it's too good but it's also too expensive (kinda reminds of dinemic between tiger tank vs sherman)

Good thing for PAF this block 3 JF-17 is slightly better than SU-30 (future standard IAF jet)

So we can still stay competitive despite the growing economic differences...

Shermans very rarely fought Tigers, most of which were deployed on the Eastern Front. ShermanS were much more likely to meet the much more numerous Panzer 4 or StuG-III.
 
Argentinian MoD says they are yet to select a fighter plane but didnt tell us why the hell thre budget proposal mentioned the name JF-17 on thre official site .....

janes still persisting with the news .....

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argentina?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Argentina</a> allocates JF-17 funding in latest fighter recapitalisation twist <a href="https://t.co/i6wzEzz6R5">https://t.co/i6wzEzz6R5</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/JF17?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#JF17</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/aircraft?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#aircraft</a> <a href="https://t.co/LYSMdzDV1I">pic.twitter.com/LYSMdzDV1I</a></p>— Janes (@JanesINTEL) <a href="https://twitter.com/JanesINTEL/status/1442066552493379586?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 26, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Iraq to buy 12 JF-17 Thunder jets from Pakistan

pakistan-iraq-jf-17-314341-mFwzcXYF.webp



ISLAMABAD - In a landmark development Pakistan got another international defence order from Iraq for the sale of 12 fighter jets JF-17 Thunder Block III, manufactured at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) Kamra.

https://nation.com.pk/25-Sep-2021/iraq-to-buy-12-jf-17-thunder-jets-from-pakistan

https://www.aviacionline.com/2021/09/jf-17-thunder-iraq-would-be-the-next-customer-of-the-sino-pakistani-fighter/

https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/26-Sep-2021/iraq-plans-to-buy-12-jf-17-thunder-jets-from-pakistan-reports

whats going on here ? whos leaking deliberately all the deals to media ? ......
 
how long will it take Pakistan to make these and deliver?

This news us not confirmed. They are just considering it. No deals nothing. All of these news items are not confirmed.

As for if they did order we have capacity at home for about 16-25 a year..but we do have a deal with catic to help take the load too..so could do this order within 12-18 Mths..

One order that is mure likely is Nigeria as they already have 3 and are waiting for blk3 to order 40
 

definitely someone inside who is also exaggerating a lot; for this guy even an inquiry is an order :facepalm: Unless it is signed there is no deal
 
Argentinian MoD says they are yet to select a fighter plane but didnt tell us why the hell thre budget proposal mentioned the name JF-17 on thre official site .....

janes still persisting with the news .....

Interesting. They wanted Rafales, but Dassault was talked out of the sale under diplomatic pressure from the British government.

I wonder how such a purchase would change the balance of power in the Falklands.
 
Pakistan Air Force ready to induct J-10C fighter jets in 2022

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Pakistan Air Force is all set to induct the J-10C fighter jets next year. The sophisticated aircraft will make Pakistan’s airspace invincible.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pakistan Air Force to get 36 Chengdu J-10C fighter Jets. <br><br>Pakistan Air Force (PAF) is set to receive 36 Chengdu J-10C semi-stealth, 4.5-gen advanced multirole fighter jets from China by the end of this year.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/China?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#China</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pakistan?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Pakistan</a> 🇵🇰🇨🇳 <a href="https://t.co/ghHCZGsDmj">pic.twitter.com/ghHCZGsDmj</a></p>— Developing Pakistan (@developingpak) <a href="https://twitter.com/developingpak/status/1419617809223585793?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 26, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

https://www.globalvillagespace.com/pakistan-air-force-ready-to-induct-j-10c-fighter-jets-in-2022/
 
how much will the 36 cost in total, and how many years will it take for us to get the 36? anyone can give us a brief into this jet fighter and how good is it versus the mirage which the indian bought ?
 
These fighters are the Chinese version of the F-Sola.

Anything is good enough to rattle our crash-prone air force anyway.
 
These fighters are the Chinese version of the F-Sola.

Anything is good enough to rattle our crash-prone air force anyway.

Can someone explain what is 4.5gen mean? Is this some new terminology to market stuff?
 
Can someone explain what is 4.5gen mean? Is this some new terminology to market stuff?

4th generation aircraft are the hi-tech aircraft developed during the Cold War by both the West and USSR: F-15/16/18, MiG-29/Su-27 etc.

5th generation aircraft are aircraft developed after this period with an emphasis on stealth: F-22/35, Su-57 etc.

4.5 generation aircraft are of the former category with have been upgraded in the decades since to have some capabilities of the latter category. But toe to toe, they can't match up against any F-22/35, though they are cheaper to procure and operate.
 
4th generation aircraft are the hi-tech aircraft developed during the Cold War by both the West and USSR: F-15/16/18, MiG-29/Su-27 etc.

5th generation aircraft are aircraft developed after this period with an emphasis on stealth: F-22/35, Su-57 etc.

4.5 generation aircraft are of the former category with have been upgraded in the decades since to have some capabilities of the latter category. But toe to toe, they can't match up against any F-22/35, though they are cheaper to procure and operate.

Thanks!

So 4.5 are a poor man's 5th gen :)
 
Can someone explain what is 4.5gen mean? Is this some new terminology to market stuff?

They are somewhat stealthy (like frontal stealth, use of composite materials and stuff like that) and have smaller rcs, but not as stealthy as 5th gen fighters.
 
Thanks!

So 4.5 are a poor man's 5th gen :)

No. They are mostly stop gap aircraft or upgraded 4th gen ones. They use 5th gen tech mixed with 4th gen airframes etc. Also air warfare is alot different now. We still use mirage 5's that are 3rd gen. Upgraded with network links and modern weapons and they are still potent against our near adversaries.

Also air warfare is more than plane vs plane..it's now plane with his boys vs other plane with his boys..think of it like a football team. You have your defence midfield and strikers..each have their own role but you fight as a team..
 
These fighters are the Chinese version of the F-Sola.

Anything is good enough to rattle our crash-prone air force anyway.

They are a bit different but they can fire the pl15 which has a range of about 200 km and not sanction prone. Will alow us to finally retire our Chinese mig21 knock offs. Its a 36 initial order and it's modified for us. Plus has IRST and other j20 goodies attached.
 

some Update .....

We signed a contract with a Pakistani company to purchase aircraft capable of facing the marches.
Iraqi Defense Minister Jumaa Inad in a #private_interview with Al-Arabiya.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="ar" dir="rtl">وقعنا عقدا مع شركة باكستانية لشراء طائرات قادرة على مواجهة المسيرات.<br>وزير الدفاع العراقي جمعة عناد في <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/%D9%85%D9%82%D8%A7%D8%A8%D9%84%D8%A9_%D8%AE%D8%A7%D8%B5%D8%A9?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#مقابلة_خاصة</a> مع العربية.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%82?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#العراق</a><a href="https://twitter.com/Jouma_Anad?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Jouma_Anad</a> <a href="https://t.co/b7sxhlFvJ7">pic.twitter.com/b7sxhlFvJ7</a></p>— العربية برامج (@AlArabiya_shows) <a href="https://twitter.com/AlArabiya_shows/status/1487826187644719111?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 30, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Can someone explain what is 4.5gen mean? Is this some new terminology to market stuff?

A good analogy would be mobile communication technology, ie. 3G, 4G, 5G etc.

Whilst improving current technologies, you had H+ (High Speed Packet Access) effectively 3.5G and LTE Advanced, effectively 4.5G, the technology between between 4G and 5G.
 
Jf17 is a potent, cheap and effective platform with lot of Pakistan input, contribution and know-how and they have been honing/improving it with every new version.

Definitely something IAF can learn from PAF - to harness your capability timely and within budget.
 
Thanks!

So 4.5 are a poor man's 5th gen :)

4.5 gen includes Eurofighter Typhoon, Rafale, Su-30. Better than the F14, F15, F16, FA18, MiG-29, Su27 in terms of avionics, but lacking the advanced communication and stealth capability of Fifth Feb fighters such as the F22 and F35.

Sixth gen will be robot fighters - see the BAe Tornado project.
 
Only the US, Russia and China have produced their own 5th gen fighters with the US being far ahead development wise than the other two.

It's still a major achievement for any air force to produce/acquire their own 4.5G platforms.
 
No way JF-17, even block 3 qualifies as 4.5 gen. Just an AESA does not make an fighter aircraft 4.5 gen. It still need to have low RCS, light weight (which possible with high carbon composites, not so in jf-17), some sensor fusion/data link etc. While jf-17 is a great asset, calling it 4.5 is a huge stretch. barely 3.5 IMO.
 
^For reference, rafale, Eurofighter would qualify as 4.5 gen. Does jf-17 match their capabilities? Rafale will make circles around jf-17 a few times before relieving it of embarrassment.
 
In regards to 4.5G concerning PAF, it's the J10 that is the platform of interest, no one is claiming that JF-17 is 4.5G.
 
Pakistan Air Force all set to induct first batch of JF-17 block III fighter jets

Islamabad: Pakistan's air defence would get a major boost with the induction of the latest version of JF-17 Thunder fighter planes, developed jointly with China, by the end of next month, according to a top defence official.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">First picture of JF-17 Thunder Block-3 ⚡ &#55356;&#56821;&#55356;&#56816;<br><br>3P10 indicates that atleast 10x airframes have been produced of JF-17 Thunder Block-3.<br><br>It's almost certain that JF-17 Thunder Block-3 will be the part of 23rd March 2022 Parade along with J-10C Vigorous Dragon &#55357;&#56370; ⚡ <a href="https://t.co/c2knEdn5SK">pic.twitter.com/c2knEdn5SK</a></p>— Pakistan Strategic Forum (@ForumStrategic) <a href="https://twitter.com/ForumStrategic/status/1478382684271529986?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 4, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

he first images of the first batch of new JF-17 Thunder Block III, fresh off the assembly line at Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) in Kamra, surfaced on the web.

The different photos show a flight line of seven Thunder Block III aircraft, but if we go by the serial numbers, the total number of fighters produced for this first batch could be eleven units.

Among the improvements incorporated in the Thunder with respect to the previous Block II are:

-AESA NRIET KLJ-7A radar of Chinese origin
-Wide-angle holographic HUD, derived from the one used by the J-20 stealth fighter
-Refurbished cockpit with updated display elements
-Updated avionics
-3-axis fly-by-wire flight system
-HMD (pilot’s helmet mounted sight)
-An extra hardpoint under the fuselage for target designation, reconnaissance or ECM pods
I-ncreased use of composite materials in fuselage and wing structure
-Dual wing pylons for medium-range air-to-air missiles
-Upgraded self-defense systems, very similar to those used on the J-10C
-New weapons such as PL-10 and PL-15 air-to-air missiles or CM400AKG long-range anti-ship missiles



https://www.timesnownews.com/international/article/pakistan-air-force-to-get-jf-17-thunder-block-iii-fighter-jets/857404
 
Onto the thread. I feel J17 is maturing well and having squadrons and squadrons of it will serve the purpose of keeping IAF on its toes. I don't necessarily feel IAF will have an overwhelming advantage by having a few squadrons of Rafales
 
PAF-USAF joint air exercise ‘Falcon Talon’ culminates

Falcon Talon, a bilateral exercise between Pakistan Air Force (PAF) and United States Air Force (USAF) aimed to promote interoperability when faced with complicated realistic scenarios, culminated d at an operational base on Saturday.

PAF Deputy Air Chief (Personnel) Air Marshall Zahid and US Chargé d'affaires in Pakistan Angela Aggeler witnessed the culmination ceremony, according to a statement issued by the PAF spokesperson.

The exercise that kicked off on February 26 with the deployment of USAF fighter jets at an operational base was aimed at Interoperability in complex Air Operations in realistic contemporary scenarios, said the communiqué.

Interacting with the combat crew of both the air forces, Air Marshal Zahid congratulated the participants on successful completion of the exercise. He also appreciated the air and ground crew for smooth and professional conduct of this significant exercise.

Both the air forces, he added, have a long history of enviable cordial relations and hoped that this exercise would certainly enable both the air forces to learn from mutual experiences in addition to promoting inter-operability.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2346562/paf-usaf-joint-air-exercise-falcon-talon-culminates
 
At this point jf17 block 3 (with aesa, pl15) is better than anything in IaF except rafael.

Shame on Iaf if I can see that and they are not taking any expedited counter measure.
 
On one hand you have ik trying to get close to russia iran and China

And then you have these Charlie's sucking up to their original masters with exercises and coas bajwa swanning around the eu meeting eu officials and politicians whilst ik was in Russia

Talk about having 2 legs in 2 different boats no wonder country won't progress and sinks everytime
 
At this point jf17 block 3 (with aesa, pl15) is better than anything in IaF except rafael.

Shame on Iaf if I can see that and they are not taking any expedited counter measure.

But you wrote that it is barely 3.5 generation.

So does IAF not have anything which is equivalent to a barely 3.5 generation.
 
But you wrote that it is barely 3.5 generation.

So does IAF not have anything which is equivalent to a barely 3.5 generation.
Only Indian plan with aesa right now is rafael. Only the last 4-6 rafaels have meteor specific enhancements which can outgun pl15. At this point with jf17 b3 and j10c, iaf is naked again qualitatively, on paper and its a shame to fall behind a country with lesser resources.
 
Only Indian plan with aesa right now is rafael. Only the last 4-6 rafaels have meteor specific enhancements which can outgun pl15. At this point with jf17 b3 and j10c, iaf is naked again qualitatively, on paper and its a shame to fall behind a country with lesser resources.

I believe PAF's goal has always been to maintain a qualitative advantage cos it knows it heavily outgunned quantity and resources wise.
 
The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) on Friday formally inducted the Chinese-made J-10C multi-role combat aircraft during a ceremony held at Minhas Air Base, Kamra.

Prime Minister Imran Khan, along with other federal ministers, service chief and the Chinese ambassador, attended the induction ceremony of the single-engine fighter jet at the special invitation of Chief of the Air Staff (CAS) Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmad Babar.

The premier congratulated the nation on the induction of the new multi-role fighter aircraft and also thanked China for delivering the fighter jets to Pakistan in a short period of eight months.

“When F-16s were inducted 40 years ago, the whole nation was jubilant and now that time has come again as Pakistan is strengthening itself. There was an attempt to create an imbalance in the region however, the induction of the fighter aircraft has again created an equilibrium,” he said.

He also expressed confidence that any aggressor would pay a heavy price for testing Pakistan's defence capabilities.

"A message went to the entire world after Pakistan’s response to the Balakot attack that we have full capability to defend ourselves,” the premier said and added that the real strength of the armed forces is a united nation with a synchronised vision.


“We have fought a very difficult war on terror. But, the message was conveyed to the entire world that we can defend ourselves," said the premier as he lauded the armed forces and the people of the country.

After viewing the newly-inducted combat aircraft's display, the premier expressed confidence that no state or actor could pressurise Pakistan in any manner.

“A sovereign country can only remain sovereign when it can defend itself,” the prime minister said. The prime minister also acknowledged and appreciated the No 15 Squadron of the PAF for expediting the induction of the J-10C aircraft in record time.

Referring to the progress being made by the country, Imran said recently record tax collection has been made, exports increased and record remittances were collected as a result of which the country was generating wealth.

“As our wealth increases, our first priority is to uplift the poor of the country through various programmes such health cards and Ehsaas. The second is to strengthen our defence,” the PM said.

Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmed Babar said the PAF was prepared and skilled to deter any aggression of the enemy. He said the JC-10 was a fully integrated weapon, avionic and combat system and its induction into the PAF would further strengthen its professional capabilities.

The J-10C can be equipped with a bigger active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar than the one used by the JF-17 Block 3. The aircraft can also carry more advanced, fourth-generation air-to-air missiles including the short-range PL-10 and the beyond-visual-range PL-15.

Chinese analysts have lauded the latest defence cooperation between China and Pakistan, saying that the move holds great significance for both countries as it boosts the combat capabilities of the Pakistani military, promotes China’s aviation equipment, and serves regional security interests.

Read More: J-10C serves regional security interests

“The J-10C will significantly enhance the combat capabilities of the Pakistan Air Force,” Chinese analysts said.

“The J-10C is a 4.5-generation medium-sized fighter jet and is more powerful than the China-Pakistan jointly developed lightweight fighter jet, the JF-17, which is currently in service with the Pakistan Air Force,” Shipborne Weapons Executive Chief Editor Shi Hong had told the Global Times.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2347447/paf-formally-inducts-j-10c-multi-role-combat-aircraft
 
Some pictures I took in an airshow in Bahrain

606de155-a45c-46ac-85e4-19bfe6a5d05c.jpg11a7c16e-5e49-48e4-bf58-8ea0d44db107.jpg3b156fab-fd31-43d4-a7c9-7af81bfc5152.jpg298e37c4-9a39-4146-b3e4-61d7ceb98c12.jpg
 
During the non-stop flight of jets from an Operational Air Base to Bahrain and on their way back to the country, inflight refuelling was carried out by Pakistan Air Force’s JF-17 Thunder aircraft achieving yet another milestone which marks a significant step towards the impregnable aerial defence of the motherland.

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 55.000%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/ir17ry" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>
 
IDEAS 2022 concludes: ‘Over 30 MoUs signed at International Defence Exhibition’

KARACHI: Over 30 Memorandum of Understanding (MoUs) were signed by delegates on the sidelines of IDEAS 2022, the International Defence Exhibition, Muhammad Israr Tareen, Federal Minister for Defence Production, said at the conclusion of the event.

Addressing the closing ceremony of the International Defence Exhibition held at the Expo Centre, Karachi, the defence production minister said, “Our country has showcased one of the best and technologically advanced air and ground equipment in the global market, thus, proudly achieving self-sufficiency in many fields related to the defence sector.”

He said Pakistan has always been conscientious of the reality that arms facilitate peace, adding, “We desire to live as a harmonious and peace-loving nation in this competitive world.”

The minister added that the aim of the IDEAS 2022 was to display products, demonstrate organisational skills to plan and conduct a mega event of international stature and provide a great international platform to convey viewpoints on security issues of the region.

Holding IDEAS 2022 successfully under the prevalent environment helps building the image of Pakistan as a modern, progressive and tolerant state which is willing to co-exist peacefully with the international community, said Tareen.

He concluded: “We have achieved all targets of holding the IDEAS 2022. Around 285 foreign defence delegations from 64 countries participated, which showed the significance and success of the exhibition.”

Meanwhile, briefing the media, Major General Muhammad Arif Malik, DG DEPO, said some of the major indigenously developed products were showcased in IDEAS-2022, including Main Battle Tank, Al-Khalid, Al-Zarrar, JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft, armoured personnel carriers, armed UAV and others.

“We received a very good response from Turkey, China, North America, South America, Europe, Asia, and the Far East,” he said.

The director general DEPO said that the impact of the event would be large-scale, adding Pakistan is producing high-quality defence products at competitive rates. Pakistan would continue to hold IDEAS biennially as it has a great potential to export defence products across different continents of the world.

Later, the exhibitors were recognised by giving away certificates and participation awards.

During the award ceremony, the Sindh Police have been awarded with the Best Stall Award in the category of national exhibitors in the 11th Edition of International Defence Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS) 2022, held from November 15-18, 2022, at the Karachi Expo Centre.

DIG Security and Emergency Services Division Dr Maqsood Ahmed received the award from the chief guest in the closing ceremony of IDEAS 2022.

It was the first-ever participation of Sindh Police in the international exhibitory event where Special Security Unit on behalf of Sindh Police participated and displayed its services, highlighting the professionally trained commandos of SSU, Special Weapons And Tactics (S.W.A.T) equipped with latest weapons, gadgets and communication system. The display also included the introduction of Sindh Police’s recently-launched Talaash App to locate criminals. On the occasion, the DIG Security, Dr Maqsood Ahmed, stated it is a great honour for the Sindh Police to receive the award in the international exhibition. He further said the leadership of Sindh Police is committed to continuing its journey towards modernisation and it would participate in the next IDEAS with new ideas and technology.

The News PK
 
In early November, three JF-17 fighters of the Pakistani Air Force conducted aerial demonstrations at the Bahrain International Air Show.

At the same time, China was showcasing the JF-17 at the annual China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition in Zuhai, China.

The events were the latest attempts by China and Pakistan to market their jointly developed fourth-generation fighter jet to international customers.

The JF-17 is only in service with three countries — Pakistan, Myanmar, and Nigeria — which operated a total of 145 as of October 2021, according to Aviation Week.

At the time, Aviation Week data showed that total was set to rise to 185 JF-17s by mid-decade — growth that would make it the most widely operated Chinese combat jet in service overseas by the end of 2023.

Developed by China's Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation and the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, the JF-17 first flew in 2003. The single-seat, single-engine jet is known in Pakistan as the JF-17 Thunder and as the FC-1 Xiaolong in China.

With a service ceiling of 50,000 feet and a top speed of about 1,200 mph, the JF-17 can perform several missions, including aerial intercept and ground attack. It can carry roughly 7,000 pounds of ordnance on seven hardpoints and is armed with a single twin-barrel 23 mm autocannon.

The first few JF-17s were made entirely in China, but Pakistan now does most of the production. At present, 58% of the aircraft is made in Pakistan and 42% in China.


Despite its joint development, only Pakistan chose to introduce it into service, officially doing so in 2007. The jet is meant to replace Pakistan's aging fleet of Nanchang A-5, Chengdu F-7, and Mirage III and V attack and fighter jets.

Pakistani air force personnel check a JF-17 at the Zhuhai Airshow in China's Guangdong province in October 2018. REUTERS/Stringer
With at least 125 in service, the JF-17 is the backbone of the PAF. They have reportedly been used to conduct airstrikes against militants in northwestern Pakistan and, according to one report, to down an Iranian-made drone in southwestern Pakistan in 2017.

Current and retired Pakistani air force officials also said a JF-17 shot down an Indian MiG-21 during an air-to-air skirmish in February 2019. (India said its jet was downed by a Pakistani F-16.)

The JF-17 has been upgraded several times since its introduction. The most recent version, the Block III, first flew in late 2019 and features several considerable improvements, including an additional hardpoint, a quad-redundant digital fly-by-wire system, and an active electronically scanned array radar.


Pakistan considers the Block III JF-17 a 4.5-generation jet, and its air force plans to acquire at least 50 of them, the first of which arrived in January. The jets have already been seen carrying one of China's most advanced air-to-air missiles.

Pakistan currently operates the most JF-17s. Myanmar, the first international customer, operates six and Nigeria has three.

Ranging from $15 million to $25 million each, the JF-17 is considerably cheaper than virtually every other fourth-generation jet on the market. Add-ons that increase its lethality, like targeting pods, makes it attractive to countries with low defense budgets that want multirole combat jets.

"Its not cutting edge, but it is a reliable performer," Timothy Heath, a senior international and defense researcher at the Rand Corporation think tank, told Insider.


"This is not an aircraft that is designed to compete head-to-head with the F-22, so it doesn't need the most sophisticated engines and parts," Heath said. "It's a cheap multirole budget aircraft that is suitable and probably most appealing to developing countries that are looking for a basic aircraft to either bomb their own people, like insurgents, or to carry out basic defense against similar-type countries."

Several countries have expressed interest in the JF-17. Iraq has reportedly agreed to buy at least 12, and Egypt has said it's interested in acquiring JF-17s as part of expanded defense cooperation with Pakistan. Azerbaijan has said for years that it wants JF-17s, and both Bolivia and Argentina are considering the jet.

Argentina has also sought to expand its local fighter production. Should it receive a license to build JF-17s domestically, it could make the jet more appealing to its neighbors.

Expanding JF-17 sales could help China increase its share of the market for "value arms" — weapons that are less sophisticated but still effective — among middle- and lower-income countries, which have long relied on Russia for jets, armored vehicles, and heavy artillery.


But selling more JF-17s may not translate into greater dependence on Chinese military hardware. Many countries still covet higher-end Western-built aircraft and are generally wary of becoming reliant on a single supplier, which is why many operate a mix of US, European, Russian, and Chinese aircraft.

"That's a pretty common strategy in the developing world," Heath said. "Most countries want autonomy, so they tend to want to have diverse suppliers, even though that does complicate their ability to operate all these foreign systems."

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-pakistan-jf17-may-be-most-widely-operated-combat-jet-2022-11
 
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