[VIDEOS] Long may the Babar-Rizwan partnership continue

[Usman Chadda]

There is no team in the world where it’s sustainable for two players to carry four others. At some point you have to trust in your middle order. I would have been completely happy to be 80-1 or 80-2 in 7 overs as long as these guys just GO. Part of the problem with the strategy is that it actively takes responsibility away from the middle order. As it is the middle order don’t get enough balls to face in international t20s to be impactful( I’m not including Ifti in this, we’ve seen his ceiling). Yes, we’ve been very disappointed with the likes of Khushdil, but he’s not as terrible a player as he’s shown, in that he absolutely can bat better than *this* version that’s failing.

In any format, even T20, batsmen need time in the middle to find rhythm, confidence and ultimately form. A great example of this is Babar, who was struggling in the early part of his innings, before it clicked into gear and he erupted. A confident batsmen is a different animal, and our entire middle order is drowning in low confidence. The only way to get out of that is time in the middle.

Even if we find three better middle order players than what we have, the problem with the current strategy will remain. I have so issues with Babar and Rizwan if they play aggressively like yesterday. Not because we won handsomely, but because both of them took risks.

When’s the last time you recall Rizzy coming down to Spinners in the 6th over (when he got dropped by Hales)? It’s just doesn’t happen. When’s the last time you saw Babar use the crease, thereby changing his shot angles? They both took risks yesterday because they had to chase. The next step is for them to play like this when batting first, even if that means they get out early. It’s not sustainable to keep hiding the middle order, and the middle order boys need time in the middle anyway.

Playing this way (and sometimes failing) also trains the fans to understand that this is how we play now.

As an example, Harry Brook when batting on 31 of 19, played a ramp shot against Rauf and got out. Waqar on commentary was like “Why did he play that shot, he was so well set”. Brooksy played that shot because England play high risk high reward cricket which makes them win more often than not. England fans, similar to Pak fans initially found the approach questionable, because England were prone to collapses. But England played with the courage of their convictions and started winning more. And their fans were convinced.

We need to start doing similar with Pakistan, because whilst our middle order isn’t incredible, the likes of Haider and Khushdil are better players than they’re showing and both need serious time in the middle. This is the ideal series to get those lads the time in the middle they need.

The middle order has been trusted enough, case in point the Asia Cup. Ample time to build an innings and they couldn’t do jack.

We won due to the brilliance of our all-rounders and also Asif Ali contributed to a certain extent. Iftikhar and Khushdil are hopeless cricketers.

 

[MenInG]

Babar definitely has some steel about him, as seen in some of his test innings recently, but regardless of that he’s naturally a reserved guy. You put him with a more boisterous personality (this time Rizzy), and it rubs of well with Babar. This is why Babar is a better player for KK with a Chadwick Walton in the team. Team combinations aren’t just playing styles, but personalities as well.

You are not wrong

Babar was getting bogged down and the dreaded 40 off 41 on a slow wicket was pending

Not gonna lie, Willy to Rizwan is like Saqlain to Sehwag. Willy’s career will end on this tour if he plays every game and Rizwan opens every match. On top of that, Moeen kept feeding him Willy in the powerplay.

Babar gained confidence and played 2 slogs/hacks to Curran. There was also a lofted shot over point!

I just hope Babar now settles for his 40+ average and goes hell for leather like he did once set, but from ball 1 and not take 20 balls to do it!

Hales and Salt are not England’s regular openers, but look at how they wanted to hit every ball only to re-adjust for the single if it wasn’t there to hit.

Some excellent view points, life is about constant learning, and I thank you both for helping me.

 

[KingOfPakBreakfast]

The middle order has been trusted enough, case in point the Asia Cup. Ample time to build an innings and they couldn’t do jack.

We won due to the brilliance of our all-rounders and also Asif Ali contributed to a certain extent. Iftikhar and Khushdil are hopeless cricketers.

The point on giving the middle order more time out in the middle, whoever plays in it, remains valid. I actually agree with you on Ifti, in that he’s demonstrated his ceiling, and post WC, we’ll see others given a go in his place.

However, we need to give Khushdil ample opportunity in this series to find form. Because like it or not, he’s going to the WC.

 

[cricenjoyer]

What both do so well in high chases is set the tone straight away and target the correct bowlers at the correct time. What they need to do now to enhance their partnership is to play with the same intent when setting up a score

 

[Usman Chadda]

The point on giving the middle order more time out in the middle, whoever plays in it, remains valid. I actually agree with you on Ifti, in that he’s demonstrated his ceiling, and post WC, we’ll see others given a go in his place.

However, we need to give Khushdil ample opportunity in this series to find form. Because like it or not, he’s going to the WC.

No way should Khushdil go to the World Cup. He has shown no inclination to be the ‘power hitter’ our team needs, besides a few fluke sixes against a hapless Aizaz Khan. I would rather prefer Iftikhar to Khushdil, who provides the same bowling angle as Nawaz and Shadab aswell.

 

[daytrader]

He was a very toxic individual and corrupt too. Hence why he barely lasted two years despite holding a very powerful position and then bailed like a coward just before the WC. Hope to never see his face ever again with Pak cricket.

Generic statements like this doesn't make him corrupt or toxic. Please add context with examples if there are any.

As far leaving his 'powerful' position, the man was in quarantine in the Carribean suffering from Covid 19 when the board made the announcement for the world cup squad. Doesn't seem that powerful when the guys above him were making the decisions but wanted him to be the scapegoat. If he was fit, in Pakistan and had a say in the WC squad then, he wouldn't have left. But Ramiz Raja wanted to show off his efficiency and created an environment behind Misbah's back which forced him to quit.

 

[daytrader]

Yep he certainly was. I knew he was no angel after what I saw in Mohali. He was batting for his place in the side when we needed him to accelerate.

The way he ousted Mickey Arthur was nothing short of disgraceful. He should banned from participating in any cricket related activity in Pakistan.

So between Mohali and ousting of Mickey, there are 8 years in between. You didn't change your opinion once on him? Even during the push ups at Lords? How about when we reached #1 in tests?

 

[ezhil]

Every day 200 partnerships won't occur....if they continue they better be doing it at faster rate.

 

[topspin]

So between Mohali and ousting of Mickey, there are 8 years in between. You didn't change your opinion once on him? Even during the push ups at Lords? How about when we reached #1 in tests?

No because he also had a record to forget in between Mohali and Mickey's ousting:

2013

1. His time was up in tests when Pakistan lost against a very weak Zimbabwe side. If he cared about the best interests of Pakistan cricket, he would have retired

2. In the 2013 CT, Misbah's Pakistan lost every game to crash out of the group. He should have retired after the Mohali knock but if there was another telling moment it was two years after that. Now contrast this to what Sarfraz achieved in the following edition of the CT, which was held in England. It was a complete change in fortunes. Don't get me wrong, I despise him as well but at least he wasn't as inept as Misbah.

2015 - 2017

2015 WC and 2016/17 Tour of Australia proved why he's the worst ever captain in Australia. His low cricket IQ was also exposed as Head Coach for Pakistan during their last tour there as well.

2019 World Cup

His awful reading of the game was yet again exposed when he wasn't in favour of Shaheen's selection during the tournament.

Few months later this con artist becomes Pakistan coach which tells you everything about how shady the process to appoint him really was.

 

[PakEngFan]

Agreed. Far better then the alternatives.

 

[Farabi]

There is no team in the world where it’s sustainable for two players to carry four others. At some point you have to trust in your middle order. I would have been completely happy to be 80-1 or 80-2 in 7 overs as long as these guys just GO. Part of the problem with the strategy is that it actively takes responsibility away from the middle order. As it is the middle order don’t get enough balls to face in international t20s to be impactful( I’m not including Ifti in this, we’ve seen his ceiling). Yes, we’ve been very disappointed with the likes of Khushdil, but he’s not as terrible a player as he’s shown, in that he absolutely can bat better than *this* version that’s failing.

In any format, even T20, batsmen need time in the middle to find rhythm, confidence and ultimately form. A great example of this is Babar, who was struggling in the early part of his innings, before it clicked into gear and he erupted. A confident batsmen is a different animal, and our entire middle order is drowning in low confidence. The only way to get out of that is time in the middle.

Even if we find three better middle order players than what we have, the problem with the current strategy will remain. I have so issues with Babar and Rizwan if they play aggressively like yesterday. Not because we won handsomely, but because both of them took risks.

When’s the last time you recall Rizzy coming down to Spinners in the 6th over (when he got dropped by Hales)? It’s just doesn’t happen. When’s the last time you saw Babar use the crease, thereby changing his shot angles? They both took risks yesterday because they had to chase. The next step is for them to play like this when batting first, even if that means they get out early. It’s not sustainable to keep hiding the middle order, and the middle order boys need time in the middle anyway.

Playing this way (and sometimes failing) also trains the fans to understand that this is how we play now.

As an example, Harry Brook when batting on 31 of 19, played a ramp shot against Rauf and got out. Waqar on commentary was like “Why did he play that shot, he was so well set”. Brooksy played that shot because England play high risk high reward cricket which makes them win more often than not. England fans, similar to Pak fans initially found the approach questionable, because England were prone to collapses. But England played with the courage of their convictions and started winning more. And their fans were convinced.

We need to start doing similar with Pakistan, because whilst our middle order isn’t incredible, the likes of Haider and Khushdil are better players than they’re showing and both need serious time in the middle. This is the ideal series to get those lads the time in the middle they need.

A very sensible post. Couple of assumptions may be leading to a different conclusion.

There is an assumption that lack of “time in the middle” is the reason the likes of Khusdil, Ifti and co haven’t kicked on. Except Haider, is that really true in the case of other guys? Babar was getting out early through the Asia cup giving these guys ample chances that were squandered. Even during this series vs Eng, chances in 1st game and 3rd games were squandered.

Another flimsy assumption that these guys don’t have the license to go hard. They have been selected as “power hitters” - whatever that means. It’s absolutely irrelevant what Waqar says. If anything Khusdil, Haider and Ifti seem to be happier nudging it around and not taking any risks at all. Ifti’s innings in the final vs Sl was boring as hell. It’s totally confusing what they’re trying to do.

At some point, you have to deep dive into the problem and get into the specifics.
Harry, Duckett just have different skills and a great process for run scoring, which these guys lack. They have better basics, play all round the wicket (sweep, ramp, scoop etc.,), run better, know how to use the crease, and are backing themselves to deliver.

To me, it’s a difference of ability and skill.

Pakistan needs to get out of the “power hitter” mentality and get proper players with that extra gear. Shan is a great addition. Who else in the domestic setup has the experience and basics that can be invested into?
Abdullah S? Kamran G?

 

[James]

Rizwan and Babar is one of the great T20 partnerships. Much of Pakistan’s fate in match situations does seem to rest of their success though. They need to strengthen the team in other key areas, such as mid innings bowling and their own middle order. Rizwan and Babar won’t physically be able to put on a huge stand every day.

 

[Suleiman]

Rizwan and Babar is one of the great T20 partnerships. Much of Pakistan’s fate in match situations does seem to rest of their success though. They need to strengthen the team in other key areas, such as mid innings bowling and their own middle order. Rizwan and Babar won’t physically be able to put on a huge stand every day.

Pretty much. It’s interesting how whenever we have had a solid middle order in LOIs post 2010, we’ve had struggling openers. But now that we have a solid opening pair, can’t seem to get the middle order right.

It’s the same with most teams. A team which has every box checked is going to be a team remembered for a long time.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Pretty much. It’s interesting how whenever we have had a solid middle order in LOIs post 2010, we’ve had struggling openers. But now that we have a solid opening pair, can’t seem to get the middle order right.

It’s the same with most teams. A team which has every box checked is going to be a team remembered for a long time.

t20 is all about how you handle match ups. You see a batsman that is weak against leg spin and you have a leg spinner bowl him there. Similarly send batsman at the right time against right bowling choices Easier said that done. IN order to do that you need to have a very versatile squad. Players with multi skills right through the line up. One of the reason i don't fancy India getting anywhere close to winning it. It is one of the most one-dimensional squad among major countries. Vast majority can do well in only one department. Fielding is atrocious for the most.

 

[Saj]

That's now 2000 runs as a partnership for Mohammad Rizwan and Babar Azam in T20Is:

Innings 38
Hundred Partnerships 7
Fifty Partnerships 7
Average 57.14
Run Rate 8.13

 

[Saj]

Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan have become the first pair of batters to score 2000 runs when batting together in T20Is.

 

[Saj]

Mohammad Rizwan/Babar Azam partnership in T20Is:

Innings 38
Runs 2043
Average 56.75
Century partnerships 7 (most by any pairing)
Fifty partnerships 7

 

[MenInG]

 

[MRSN]

As I have said in many other threads I don't value these runs scored by both Rizwan and Baber. The rate at which they score is outdated for modern t20is. Could be lack of skills or could be they are just content with batting like this. Either way not too pleased with current approach and I don't think Pak will achieve any thing other than personal stats for players like Rizwan.

 

[Rana]

Long May it continue…..


Says the opposition

 

[James]

When their partnership ends, the Pakistan innings completely loses momentum.

 

[OmarKhan99]

Their strike-rate needs a significant improvement. There's no point blaming the middle order when they only get to bat like 3 overs in regular games and then carry the bulk of the responsibility when one of Rizwan-Babar inevitably go early in the big game.

The thing that annoys me at the moment, is the lack of intent. It's not like they're trying to hit big, and they aren't. It's that in overs 7-15, and in particular with spinners bowling, they're content with just nudging it around. At the least, try and press your advantage and put the opposition under pressure rather than sheepishly make way to a sub-140 SR half ton. Thought they'd learnt their lesson after the SL and AFG games in Asia Cup and Aus last year. Guess not.

 

[Asif321]

As I have said in many other threads I don't value these runs scored by both Rizwan and Baber. The rate at which they score is outdated for modern t20is. Could be lack of skills or could be they are just content with batting like this. Either way not too pleased with current approach and I don't think Pak will achieve any thing other than personal stats for players like Rizwan.

Somehow I feel it’s going the way it used to be during Misbah . When misbah got all the useless runs and people kept blaming top order and lower order . No talent in Pakistan . And all praise was for misbah

 

[ChTab]

This partnership is blessing for opposition teams.

 

[Ahmed216]

Rizwan and Babar is one of the great T20 partnerships. Much of Pakistan’s fate in match situations does seem to rest of their success though. They need to strengthen the team in other key areas, such as mid innings bowling and their own middle order. Rizwan and Babar won’t physically be able to put on a huge stand every day.

They truly are greatest ever partnership in t20’s. Pak lucky to have them.
I can’t decide whether their detractors lack understanding of cricket or they are just trolls

 

[MenInG]

 

[Grunge101]

Rizwan was too slow today, there really shudnt be any question about it.

At the end of the 8th over, he was 21 of 21

At the end of 11 over, he was 34 of 31

At the end of the 15th , he was 54 of 45.

He reached 50 at a SR under 120. By the end, he had hit 4 fours in total out of 9.2 overs that he faced. Thats almost half the innings. His contribution to the total score was 38%.

You can make a case for that SR for the first 20-30 runs hoping he'll accelerate from there and end with something around 150 but you can't afford to keep going at that pace till the end.

 

[Rana]

It will end

It must end

 

[zacattakk]

Rizwan was too slow today, there really shudnt be any question about it.

At the end of the 8th over, he was 21 of 21

At the end of 11 over, he was 34 of 31

At the end of the 15th , he was 54 of 45.

He reached 50 at a SR under 120. By the end, he had hit 4 fours in total out of 9.2 overs that he faced. Thats almost half the innings. His contribution to the total score was 38%.

You can make a case for that SR for the first 20-30 runs hoping he'll accelerate from there and end with something around 150 but you can't afford to keep going at that pace till the end.

Yes he was definitely too slow today and it could have cost us the game if Nawaz hadn't been promoted and played a gem. I couldnt see our regular middle order of Shan, Haider, Chacha and Asif successfully pulling that off.

 

[PakEngFan]

Rubbish innings by rizwan today.

 

[Major]

Only in pakistan you see fans being unhappy about it because they want to see the middle order to play for some weird reason

 

[Rana]

Only in pakistan you see fans being unhappy about it because they want to see the middle order to play for some weird reason

The same Middle order for which Rizwan was brought in to replace Sarfaraz…but failed handsomely just like Shan, Fakhar, Khushdil, Iftikhar, Haider!

Those guys have no Godfather like Misbah who will elevate them into opening position and save their careers!

 

[Mamoon]

Both are nothing players in this format. They are running a con show.

Any half-decent opener would score with the same consistency as these two do if they also take such little risks and look to nudge the ball around for 10 overs.

Babar and Rizwan will average in the 20s if they are asked to play the type of high risk shots that other openers do in this format to maintain a high RR.

When they bat first, their intention is to score 160-170 regardless of the pitch. When they are chasing a big target, the RRR when they start the innings is lower than the RRR when they end their innings.

They are the only T20 opening pair in the world that has a free run when it comes to batting within their comfort-zones and not worrying about the run rate.

This flop strategy has cost Pakistan in WT20 Semifinal, the Asia Cup final and the decider against England.

InshAllah, it will continue to cost Pakistan in the future as well and we will suffer more heartbreaking defeats because that is what this team deserves.

The justification that they bat like this because the middle-order is terrible is nonsense.

Yes the middle-order is a clown show, but you can give these guys a middle-order of Miller, Suryakumar and Bairstow and these two would still bat like this because this is the only way they can score consistently.

It is just that the failures of the middle-order allows them an excuse. Babar and Rizwan will not bat like Buttler and Warner if they have a firing middle-order.

They will continue to bat at 7 an over and hope that the middle-order will score at 15 an over in the last 5.

This team has become all about Babar and Rizwan scoring fifties day in day out. The team has achieved nothing with these tactics because they do not work.

Are other teams stupid? Australia, England, India etc. have dozens of players who can open the innings in this format and score 40 ball 50s every day with 5 boundaries and 1 six.

It is the easiest job in the format. Babar and Rizwan have the easiest job in the format.

Other teams do not follow this strategy because the only positive outcome is that it will have your openers occupy top positions in the rankings but the team will achieve nothing.

Regardless of how good or bad your middle-order is, it thrives on momentum. Even if you have the most explosive middle-order in the world, they will find it hard to flick the switch and go from 7 an over to 10+ an over.

On the contrary, even a weak middle-order is likely to carry the momentum forward and continue at the same pace.

Rizwan and Babar are asking too much from the middle-order irrespective of how bad it is. Even explosive middle-orders will struggle to build momentum after these two nudge the ball around for 15 overs.

This team has become all about the management and some deluded fans puffing their chests over the averages and rankings of Rizwan and Babar and nothing else.

This team has become unwatchable and this monopoly needs to come to an end. Pakistan needs a proper coach who can call out this scam for what it is. This con job has been going on for almost 3 years now.

 

[TheSultan]

It’s this type of graphic most Pakistani fans live for.

Forget results - as long as we have an infographic about Rizwan and Babar’s average or aggregate runs, stick in a comparison with some Indian players and life is just dandy for them.

 

[MenInG]

It’s this type of graphic most Pakistani fans live for.

Forget results - as long as we have an infographic about Rizwan and Babar’s average or aggregate runs, stick in a comparison with some Indian players and life is just dandy for them.

as is 152/0

 

[Ozeirk]

It’s this type of graphic most Pakistani fans live for.

Forget results - as long as we have an infographic about Rizwan and Babar’s average or aggregate runs, stick in a comparison with some Indian players and life is just dandy for them.

They have won games as a consequence of those averages, aggregates and partnerships. They are doing more than their share for the team. Middle order is where the struggles are.

 

[Waleed93]

Damn, the crying is getting louder with each performance.

How I wish these clowns were forced to witness the days of Shehzad and Hafeez opening for us, followed by Akmal, Maqsood, Afridi and Anwar Ali.

Those were the days.

 

[Duckworth Lewis]

Both are nothing players in this format. They are running a con show.

Any half-decent opener would score with the same consistency as these two do if they also take such little risks and look to nudge the ball around for 10 overs.

Babar and Rizwan will average in the 20s if they are asked to play the type of high risk shots that other openers do in this format to maintain a high RR.

When they bat first, their intention is to score 160-170 regardless of the pitch. When they are chasing a big target, the RRR when they start the innings is lower than the RRR when they end their innings.

They are the only T20 opening pair in the world that has a free run when it comes to batting within their comfort-zones and not worrying about the run rate.

This flop strategy has cost Pakistan in WT20 Semifinal, the Asia Cup final and the decider against England.

InshAllah, it will continue to cost Pakistan in the future as well and we will suffer more heartbreaking defeats because that is what this team deserves.

The justification that they bat like this because the middle-order is terrible is nonsense.

Yes the middle-order is a clown show, but you can give these guys a middle-order of Miller, Suryakumar and Bairstow and these two would still bat like this because this is the only way they can score consistently.

It is just that the failures of the middle-order allows them an excuse. Babar and Rizwan will not bat like Buttler and Warner if they have a firing middle-order.

They will continue to bat at 7 an over and hope that the middle-order will score at 15 an over in the last 5.

This team has become all about Babar and Rizwan scoring fifties day in day out. The team has achieved nothing with these tactics because they do not work.

Are other teams stupid? Australia, England, India etc. have dozens of players who can open the innings in this format and score 40 ball 50s every day with 5 boundaries and 1 six.

It is the easiest job in the format. Babar and Rizwan have the easiest job in the format.

Other teams do not follow this strategy because the only positive outcome is that it will have your openers occupy top positions in the rankings but the team will achieve nothing.

Regardless of how good or bad your middle-order is, it thrives on momentum. Even if you have the most explosive middle-order in the world, they will find it hard to flick the switch and go from 7 an over to 10+ an over.

On the contrary, even a weak middle-order is likely to carry the momentum forward and continue at the same pace.

Rizwan and Babar are asking too much from the middle-order irrespective of how bad it is. Even explosive middle-orders will struggle to build momentum after these two nudge the ball around for 15 overs.

This team has become all about the management and some deluded fans puffing their chests over the averages and rankings of Rizwan and Babar and nothing else.

This team has become unwatchable and this monopoly needs to come to an end. Pakistan needs a proper coach who can call out this scam for what it is. This con job has been going on for almost 3 years now.

Unfortunately, you guys don't have better options like other top teams. The quality of Pakistan's batting talent is apparent when you have to go back to the likes of Sharjeel and Malik.
In all of Pakistan's history, no one has been as consistent as Rizwan even with his boring half centuries.

 

[Kianig89]

RizBar partnership is like having a Mehran and running it at 90MPH on an empty road and chest thumping it, we just edged out Bangladesh of all sides

 

[Ozeirk]

RizBar partnership is like having a Mehran and running it at 90MPH on an empty road and chest thumping it, we just edged out Bangladesh of all sides

C'mon now this is a bit harsh. New Zealand and Pakistan have won one game each against each other. Even the England series was pretty close.

 

[Zaz]

It’s this type of graphic most Pakistani fans live for.

Forget results - as long as we have an infographic about Rizwan and Babar’s average or aggregate runs, stick in a comparison with some Indian players and life is just dandy for them.

I think you're forgetting Pakistan Won today

Lets leave the wrist slitting for another day when the openers actually cost the team the game Today they didnt

 

[Rana]

I think you're forgetting Pakistan Won today

Lets leave the wrist slitting for another day when the openers actually cost the team the game Today they didnt

Oh yeah as if RizBar fans will admit it was their fault and not the middle orders )

 

[shariqnoor]

Wasn't a particularly good innings by Rizwan today. Deserves criticism.

 

[The lone Ranger]

Two back to back matches without a day gap!! The excuse some will give if they fail to chase tomorrow.

Some players should have been given some rest today in a meaningless match especially before the final.

 

[MenInG]

I think you're forgetting Pakistan Won today

Lets leave the wrist slitting for another day when the openers actually cost the team the game Today they didnt

It's deliberate - things people do to further their hate.

 

[Rana]

Two back to back matches without a day gap!! The excuse some will give if they fail to chase tomorrow.

Some players should have been given some rest today in a meaningless match especially before the final.

They think we can’t see through it

 

[ammar_merry]

RizBar partnership is like having a Mehran and running it at 90MPH on an empty road and chest thumping it, we just edged out Bangladesh of all sides

Name few instances of Pakistan team chasing 170+ before and after rizbabar started opening. I vividely remember Pakistan unable to chase 150 score in t20Is before this pair.

 

[Rana]

Name few instances of Pakistan team chasing 170+ before and after rizbabar started opening. I vividely remember Pakistan unable to chase 150 score in t20Is before this pair.

So we had a 79% win rate under Sarfaraz for no reason?

 

[MRSN]

I think you're forgetting Pakistan Won today

Lets leave the wrist slitting for another day when the openers actually cost the team the game Today they didnt

It will most likely come in a big game like Asia cup final. Then we will see who will have the final laugh. This mentality has no place in modern cricket. Blindly defending such knocks will not help. Constructive criticism is the way to go. We have given Rizwan so much time but even today he didn't show any improvement even though he stayed for almost whole innings. He gets worse and worse the more he stays at the crease. That's not what quality batters are known for.

This upcoming world cup will definitely destroy lots of myths about overrated players.

 

[the Great Khan]

Here we go again..you guys are never happy..when we had bakwaas like the akmals you moaned..then with shahid afridi you moaned..you moaned with hafeez and Co. You moaned with wins losses draws whatever..moan moan Moan.

 

[Rana]

Here we go again..you guys are never happy..when we had bakwaas like the akmals you moaned..then with shahid afridi you moaned..you moaned with hafeez and Co. You moaned with wins losses draws whatever..moan moan Moan.

There is nothing wrong with having backwas that plays for the team instead of their averages

You seem to fail to understand that

 

[TheSultan]

Oh yeah as if RizBar fans will admit it was their fault and not the middle orders )

Exactly - had we not had Nawaz' 225 S/R, we would have lost. Even if had a S/R of 180 (much higher than either King) we still would have lost.

But of course, let's blame the middle order.

In fact if neither got out....we would have lost. But then it would still be the middle order's fault - they only play like this because they are worried about the middle order!

I'm feeling down, someone please post an infographic of their stats please.

 

[Energy]

There is nothing wrong with having backwas that plays for the team instead of their averages

You seem to fail to understand that

Right. Playing for the team aka Afridi has a win percentage of 45%. While playing for the averages aka Babar has a win percentage of 65%.

You can take the bakwas team player, I'll take the talismanic run machine.

 

[ex-q-zit]

I saw a press comference video of Rizwan speaking proudly about the no. 1 ranking and saying its the 1157th (or something close to this I dont remember the exact no.) day of Babar's reign as no. 1 batsman as he and Babar are not different. As long as the players, media and fans give more importance to individual records and not team records such selfish batting will persist. Pakistan is no. 4 but no one questions that in press conference instead they ask Babar what records he intends to break.

For me someone like SKY is more deserving as he comes moe often in the middle overs with fields spread out and strikes at 170+ with a healthy average. Also his knocks have more impact on the victory. Or some like Buttler you strikes at 200 in PP and continues throughout the game. In t20s higher strike rate is what matters and not averages as we play only 120 balls. If the likes of Rohit, Warner, Buttler, Hales etc start playing riskfree cricket even they will end up with high averages in 40s or 50s.

I dont think we can blame the middle order for this (though I have my own issues with the likes of Asif). Even if the pakistani middle order had the like sof SKY, Liam Livingston and Tim David these 2 would have played the same way as they just dont have the shots in them to score quick. In most matches the middle order would have scores 15+ and rescued the team. But here since Pakistan has a pathetic middle order most of the RizBar supporters clutch to the logic that they need to thread carefully as the middle order will fall like a pack of cards if exposed early.

This risk-free approach will not workmost of the times. Definitely not in multi-team tournaments. This time around toss is unlikely to be a factor like in UAE. This timid approach may prove detrimental in the next few weeks.

 

[TheSultan]

Here we go again..you guys are never happy..when we had bakwaas like the akmals you moaned..then with shahid afridi you moaned..you moaned with hafeez and Co. You moaned with wins losses draws whatever..moan moan Moan.

TGK Bhai, it's not that their winning much are they? They haven't won a major series, no tournaments.

And why are you assuming everyone moaned about the others? With Afridi, I certainly wasn't moaning when we won the 2009 WC. Even in the 2010 WC, even though we lost the semi, I wasn't moaning about Akmal's fantastic knock.

Look I know what Akmal is all about, I'm not even asking for him to be back. But these guys can't get away scott free based on some statistics

 

[TheSultan]

Right. Playing for the team aka Afridi has a win percentage of 45%. While playing for the averages aka Babar has a win percentage of 65%.

You can take the bakwas team player, I'll take the talismanic run machine.

interesting......do you have an infographic about that please. I'm building my collection to console myself when we inevitably get KOd of the cup

 

[ex-q-zit]

Right. Playing for the team aka Afridi has a win percentage of 45%. While playing for the averages aka Babar has a win percentage of 65%.

You can take the bakwas team player, I'll take the talismanic run machine.

These stats can be so misleading. Take today's match for instance. Yes Pakistan won the match so its automatically gets into RizBar's win percentage. But did their knocks really have the impact or was it Nawaz's blinder that resulted in the victory? Afridi has played many knocks like Nawaz's in late 90s and up till mid 00s when he was opener. He then shifted to lower order with amuch weaker pakistani team that lost matches on a regular basis with Akmals and Shehzads in their ranks.

 

[TheSultan]

I think a lot of people were duped by last year's world cup and that 152 partnership vs India.

They performed well last year, but it also took a lot of people by surprise too. We were a bit of an unknown quantity. People know what our team and strategy is now and they will adapt - as England did with a second string side). Unfortunately we haven't done any adapting or experimenting so we have no counter to the adaptation of other teams.

But I know, I know.....it's the middle order's fault we can't experiment.

These two poor heroes

 

[jnaveen1980]

Not so flattering stats for Pak openers. Babriz fully in red zone

 

[Rana]

I think a lot of people were duped by last year's world cup and that 152 partnership vs India.

They performed well last year, but it also took a lot of people by surprise too. We were a bit of an unknown quantity. People know what our team and strategy is now and they will adapt - as England did with a second string side). Unfortunately we haven't done any adapting or experimenting so we have no counter to the adaptation of other teams.

But I know, I know.....it's the middle order's fault we can't experiment.

These two poor heroes

We have tried 1 different partnership since (Harris/Babar) and only once

 

[Rana]

Not so flattering stats for Pak openers. Babriz fully in red zone


View attachment 117407

Hoooooooo bhai

Maaro, mujhe Maaro

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

interesting......do you have an infographic about that please. I'm building my collection to console myself when we inevitably get KOd of the cup

Even India with so many good batsmen and some overhyped ones got KOd in the last world cup. I will say it again, problem is in the middle order.

 

[Kianig89]

Not so flattering stats for Pak openers. Babriz fully in red zone


View attachment 117407

Exactly RizBar are promoting the mediocrity culture in Team which was laid by MisbahulHaq unfortunately Saqlain and Moyo has owned it,if not for Nawaz blitz we would have lost today. Batting @120 SR in T20 and opening is just intolerable and playing 40+ deliveries with same approach is just criminal
Pakistan won in 20th over with 7 wickets left but Pakistan winning in 18th over with 4 wickets would have had more impact, for RizBar it seems that individual record comes before team like both of them plays first 15-20 deliveries each without context this strategy won't work against World class sides like we witness against England

 

[Zaz]

So we had a 79% win rate under Sarfaraz for no reason?

Pakistans 3 highest t20 scores have been under babars reign and with these 2 opening

Theyve never scored at a quicker rate as a team than they are currently doing

Under sarfrazs reign we were defending par and slighly above scores We were never blasting the opposition away with the bat

So something to think about

 

[Kianig89]

Not so flattering stats for Pak openers. Babriz fully in red zone


View attachment 117407

Another point to ponder is Sarfraz as a captain was way better than Babar infant Babar might get unwanted record of losing defacto finals in a month let's see

 

[Xoib]

Those saying it's easy to average in 50's with 120 SR (BTW it's 130 for both openers) then can you educate me how many batsman are averaging in 40's and 50's in odis where SR is usually in 80's and 90's

 

[TheSultan]

Not so flattering stats for Pak openers. Babriz fully in red zone


View attachment 117407

Very interesting to note that Roy is out of the picture and Finch is only surviving cos he's skipper. ]

And Babar and Riz are being pushed as heroes!

 

[The lone Ranger]

Those saying it's easy to average in 50's with 120 SR (BTW it's 130 for both openers) then can you educate me how many batsman are averaging in 40's and 50's in odis where SR is usually in 80's and 90's

You can't compare both. In ODIs the best bowlers have more overs to get you out so you might not average high even if you play slow risk free cricket.

 

[The lone Ranger]

Not so flattering stats for Pak openers. Babriz fully in red zone


View attachment 117407

I thought Rohit was too slow in PP but looks like he's been doing much better than the others .

 

[jnaveen1980]

I thought Rohit was too slow in PP but looks like he's been doing a lot better than others .

New and improved Rohit. Both KL Rahul and Rohit were under the pump exactly like Rizwan/Babar for more than 2 years. Lot of Indian fans were not on the same page about KL Rahul/Rohit at the top. Then he himself realized there is a problem after becoming captain. When you want to fix a problem you have to first admit there is a problem instead of going after everyone who has recognized the problem. NZ commies, Waqar younis many commentators have called it out as subtle as possible.

 

[Rana]

I thought Rohit was too slow in PP but looks like he's doing much better than a lot.

Rohit and KL identified a problem and they are working hard to rectify it. That’s what good players do! They know there are others willing to step in and do the job but they are not holding onto those positions because of brand weightage.

Our boys ‘don’t listen’ to what people have to say

 

[jnaveen1980]

Rohit and KL identified a problem and they are working hard to rectify it. That’s what good players do! They know there are others willing to step in and do the job but they are not holding onto those positions because of brand weightage.

Our boys ‘don’t listen’ to what people have to say

KL Rahul was mercilessly trolled after he scored the slowest 50 in T20 by an INdia against SA in the recent series scoring 51 in 56 balls. They were only chasing 106. Fans didn't buy the excuse of chasing a smallish total as Surya made 50 in 33 balls in the same match. Next match he made 57 in 28 balls. There is this justification whenever you chase a small total you are allowed to take your sweet time.

 

[PakPremi]

Even India with so many good batsmen and some overhyped ones got KOd in the last world cup. I will say it again, problem is in the middle order.

I am amazed so many posters missing this point here, and trying to fix what is not broken. There is no one in Pakistan that will score any more runs combined and any quicker. So what is the fuss about?
Pakistan losing finals or against good teams isnot becasue the duo are scoring 10 or 15 runs less in the PP overs, it is because Pakistan have not been able to groom or play good enough middle order players to score substantial runs if these two get out early. When these two bat most overs we actually stand better chance and win in many cases. Problem is when they get out early.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I am amazed so many posters missing this point here, and trying to fix what is not broken. There is no one in Pakistan that will score any more runs combined and any quicker. So what is the fuss about?
Pakistan losing finals or against good teams isnot becasue the duo are scoring 10 or 15 runs less in the PP overs, it is because Pakistan have not been able to groom or play good enough middle order players to score substantial runs if these two get out early. When these two bat most overs we actually stand better chance and win in many cases. Problem is when they get out early.

Your best way to find that out is by resting both of them from a low-key series and letting others take charge.

 

[Suleiman]

Problem lies with the opening pair and the middle order.

The opening pair are ultra conservative and have stats of a proper, solid, ODI batsman that doesn’t translate to t20s if a) we’re batting first and the pitch is a belter on which 185+ will be a par score or b) we’re chasing 200+

We pulled it off somehow Vs England in the t20 series, but we also failed miserably in the Setting a proper score in our 2nd game vs NZ this series as well as tuk tuking along chasing 170 off Vs SL in the AC Final.

The middle order is the worst we’ve had in a long time to the point we have to depend on 2 bowling allrounders to carry it, and they haven’t been doing poorly.

However if we’re chasing a steep target and both of these legends take their sweet time and consume about 5-10 overs at a RR of 6-7, and get out, then the RRR is at 10-12 and our middle order is exposed. Can’t expect Nawaz and Shadab to bat at such a high level every time.

For that reason one of them has to come down at 3, probably Babar, and we need to install someone who takes charge from ball 1. The whole idea behind this is to keep a high run rate throughout the innings rather than go at a snail’s pace for 12-15 overs and then expect 60-70 in 30 balls every time from the middle order being held up by 2 bowling ARs.

 

[Zaz]

I am amazed so many posters missing this point here, and trying to fix what is not broken. There is no one in Pakistan that will score any more runs combined and any quicker. So what is the fuss about?
Pakistan losing finals or against good teams isnot becasue the duo are scoring 10 or 15 runs less in the PP overs, it is because Pakistan have not been able to groom or play good enough middle order players to score substantial runs if these two get out early. When these two bat most overs we actually stand better chance and win in many cases. Problem is when they get out early.

Well said Theres noone in pakistan who will bat quicker than these lads These two invariably lead us to wins Its only when they get out early that the middle order also fails

Pakistan doesnt lose games because of slow power plays but because hardly anyone in the middle order has recently stood up and made some runs when the openers have got out early

Id like to see a stat when was the last time someone batting at 4-7 made a 50 for pakistan

 

[Saj]

Interesting that when the opening stand was broken today, the score was 101 from 12.3 overs.

So that was a run rate of 8.08.

The required runs then were 73 off 45 balls - a required run rate of 9.73

 

[Rana]

Interesting that when the opening stand was broken today, the score was 101 from 12.3 overs.

So that was a run rate of 8.08.

The required runs then were 73 off 45 balls - a required run rate of 9.73

But one of the two openers was still there

Was he the one matching the required rate after facing the bulk of the deliveries at the crease?

 

[MenInG]

Interesting that when the opening stand was broken today, the score was 101 from 12.3 overs.

So that was a run rate of 8.08.

The required runs then were 73 off 45 balls - a required run rate of 9.73

The problem in a nutshell.

 

[Grunge101]

For those who claim the reason these bat this slowly is the non existent middle order, can you honestly tell me they'd be playing any differently if our middle order consisted of Sky, Pandya, Marsh and Maxwell?

No they won't. Simply because they're not capable of it. I would even venture on to say that their slow starts aren't the biggest problem, it's their failure to accelerate after a start. Everytime you see them trying to go harder after the 8th over, inevitably a wicket falls. When did you last see Babar or Rizwan accelerating meaningfully after the initial 35-40.. almost never. They'll either continue the same way to a 50-60 or get out immediately attempting to score quickly.

The middle order is our biggest issue, no doubt about that. That however doesnt mean the opening pair is optimal. If anything it only adds to the middle order problems at times. The best power hitters in the world will struggle to jump from an innings RR of 7 RPO to 10-12 immediately, what chance do the likes of Chacha/Khushdil have, coming in between overs 12-15 and trying to jump start a dead battery.