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[VIDEOS/PICTURES] How long before patience runs out with Haider Ali?

Look at that dismissal today.

It's the sort of shot that you would see in club cricket or schoolboy cricket.
 
Saj said:
Look at that dismissal today.

It's the sort of shot that you would see in club cricket or schoolboy cricket.
Click to expand...

Which is expected given he's barely out of u-19 cricket, but unfortunately due to our pathetic system he isn't being given the leeway he ought to be at this stage of his career.

Honestly i feel really bad for the guy. He looked close to tears in the dugout afterwards. He hasn't been given any chance to develop and instead has been thrust into the deep end with international expectations on his shoulders.

Pakistan have undoubtedly set Haider Ali up to fail and this is the result.
 
Would’ve loved to have him in the WT20 squad, but sadly he needs to go back to domestic cricket. Keep him away from international cricket, PCB can either protect him or destroy his career.

Ifthikar Ahmed should replace him.
 
Saj said:
Look at that dismissal today.

It's the sort of shot that you would see in club cricket or schoolboy cricket.
Click to expand...

Stumping is quite common in international cricket.
Played a sensible second fiddle to Zazai today
and the flashy shot was played to win in style.
Not clear what the fuss is about
 
Savak said:
Have to question the hype this kid gets. He is a pure tape ball hitter so far. Absolutely horrendous shot selection. He has not played a single awe striking innings so far in international or domestic cricket so far.

He has had the opportunity to work with Younis, Yousaf and now Inzi and I see zero discipline or application. Needs to be sent back to domestic cricket and NHPC to iron out his batting
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There isn’t a cricketer in Pakistan who wasn’t a “tape ball hitter” at some point
 
Honestly think , he needs to play just longer formats of the game , t-20 cricket is killing him
 
Dropped by PZ today. No surprise really. His batting has been very average so far in PSL 6.
 
Imagine being dropped in the PSL but still going on the tour to England. Had the PSL not been postponed he probably would’ve been dropped from the Pakistan team.
 
Consistent failures and PZ bring in Jonathan Wells - what a difference! And something for Haider to think about.
 
He could learn from Zazai, that it's not just about wild slogging and play to your strengths.
 
Doing well in the first game of National T20 Cup

40*(17) for Northern in their run chase of 140

9c52eca1-18dc-45d2-abaa-cbc334467463.jpg
 
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Now 52* (34) - blazing away.

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Done well in National T20 Cup - today scored 72* in 40 balls for Northern v SP
 
Would be silly not to take him but taking Khushdil and Asif Ali instead to the T20 World Cup
 
He's having a good tournament, but I feel it will be too soon to recall him into the side. He needs to show more consistency.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Some of Haider Ali's recent innings:<br><br>72* off 40 balls<br>91* off 53 balls<br>40 off 27 balls<br>58* off 41 balls<br><br>Surely has to be picked for the T20 World Cup.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NationalT20Cup?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NationalT20Cup</a> <a href="https://t.co/k3g2eXuWYc">pic.twitter.com/k3g2eXuWYc</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1445799922851188738?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 6, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Provides the X factor but obviously not the finished product yet.

He has a lot to learn, but I would pick him for the T20 World Cup.
 
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Saj said:
Provides the X factor but obviously not the finished product yet.

He has a lot to learn, but I would pick him for the T20 World Cup.
Click to expand...

I think the same. It's not like we have many options. We know "power hitters" have showed nothing and will fail. Although we don't really need a top order batsman. Unless Hafeez and Maqsood are willing to drop down to no. 4 and 5.
 
Lol, he shall play a couple of nice looking shot, before getting out.

Seen it too many times with him, in the international arena.

Leg side hack, hardly any game on the off side.
 
nitrous said:
Lol, he shall play a couple of nice looking shot, before getting out.

Seen it too many times with him, in the international arena.

Leg side hack, hardly any game on the off side.
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Have u seen his stats in domestic and have u seen him bat ?
 
In the 12 man squad for a reason but will he actually play today?
 
MenInG said:
In the 12 man squad for a reason but will he actually play today?
Click to expand...

I have a feeling that Pakistan might have figured out the best possible batting combination.

Hafeez's batting form means that he plays as an all-rounder, not a batsman alone. With this in mind, he has to bat lower down the order to accommodate a player who is more likely to score runs.

Babar Azam
Mohammad Rizwan
Fakhar Zaman
Haider Ali
Shoaib Malik
Mohammad Hafeez

I think this will end up being our batting lineup, because if one of Haider or Fakhar gets settled, they will score quickly.

The batting order can shuffle, but Haider should always come in ahead of Hafeez because of current batting form.

I'd expect Hafeez to bowl his full quota today, and I would think of using the following bowling plans:

1st over - Shaheen
2nd over - Imad
3rd over - If no wicket falls and not many runs given, bowl Shaheen again. If a wicket has fallen, good time to bring on Hafeez and get one over through.
4th over - Imad
5th over - If India is still not exploding, I'd take the opportunity to bowl Hafeez again, giving us a lot more flexibility in the death.
6th over - Hasan Ali

If Hafeez's bowling is utilized properly, we could end up with possibly 2 overs from each of our pacers in the death, which means that if one is expensive, he can be substituted with another.

If by the 15th over, we have bowled:

4 overs of Imad, 3 overs of Hafeez, 3 overs of Shadab, 2 overs of Shaheen, 2 overs of Hasan, 2 overs of Rauf, we will have a lot more flexibility in the death.

However, I understand that our powerplay bowling will need to be exceptional, and I hope it is.
 
I've got a feeling Pakistan will play it safe and pick Asif Ali over Haider Ali against India.

The X factor would be Haider and my preferred pick.
 
Saj said:
I've got a feeling Pakistan will play it safe and pick Asif Ali over Haider Ali against India.

The X factor would be Haider and my preferred pick.
Click to expand...
Is it between Asif and Haider or Hafeez and Haider?

Can you drop Asif after his performance against SA? Why didn’t Haider bat in the practice matches? On what basis would Hafeez be selected?

These are all questions the coaches will have to answer after the game.
 
Baigel said:
Is it between Asif and Haider or Hafeez and Haider?

Can you drop Asif after his performance against SA? Why didn’t Haider bat in the practice matches? On what basis would Hafeez be selected?

These are all questions the coaches will have to answer after the game.
Click to expand...

It's between asif ali and haider
 
Gone for a duck

Nothing has changed for Haider I note.

Almost glad he wasnt allowed to play in the WC

Capture.JPG
 
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Dreadful swipe across the line. I'm all for attacking cricket even under pressure, but you have to play the ball on merit. That was a ball that should have been played with a straight bat not a horizontal one.

The biggest issue I have with players like him are rather than see through a good spell they try and hit their way out of pressure rather than sensibly play their way out. Chasing 128 no real scoreboard pressure.
 
He’s more of test and ODI batsman than T20 should be playing first class cricket or for the A team instead he’s hacking and slogging in T20s ruining his technique.
 
He's a talented player and needs time to develop and grow. I am confident that he will become a major part of our side one day. And I don't get why our fans get the knives out on a player after a few bad innings.

He has more than earned a place based on his performances in NT20 Cup. Yes he has many flaws in his batting but then again he is 20 and not everyone is supposed to be Tendulkar.
 
From my understanding of the game a person like Haider thrives in situations where there are 2-3 other consistent bats/accumulators for him to go out there and play his natural game.

With Pakistan having Babar, Rizwan and potentially Shafique and Imam (in ODIs), going forward with more time in the XI Haider will slowly but surely start to gel into the line-up and understand his role and responsibilities.

For Haider, he needs to work more on his game against the spinners as Pakistan is now a very top heavy batting unit with not much opportunities to bat in top 3 in limited overs and hence Haider would most probably bat at 4 or 5 meaning he would face bulk of overs from spinners. So a rookie mistake like the one today is something he needs to overcome.
 
He needs to be discarded imo if he won't get his act together

I'd rather pakistan back hussain talat

And also bring likes of faheem ashraf and amad butt as bowling all-rounder in white ball cricket .
 
I am sure he will come good.

Give him a consistent run. He is not the Umar Akmal kinda breed.
 
Another wild heave. He's a better player than the shots he is playing these days.

It doesn't matter how many shots he has, he needs to learn the art of how to build an innings.
 
Needs to be kept away from T20s, hes already become a brainless slogger. Can see his career being wasted already.
 
Brainless Youve just come in knock the ball around and play straight Get to grips first with the pitch conditions etc

He needs to cut out these brainless cross batted slogs he keeps playing

Hes got the perfect role model in babar He needs to learn from him and starts to play straighter
 
He’s been waiting on the bench for what may seem like an eternity for him to get a game . Then walks in at 20-3. He’s still young , we just need to be patient for him .

I honestly feel these pitches are not the kind of situations he should be making a comeback in , and even if he fails it needs to be taken into consideration. Should be given this series and the West Indies series . That’s 6 games which is ample opportunity to proven his mettle .
 
GreenKhan said:
He’s been waiting on the bench for what may seem like an eternity for him to get a game . Then walks in at 20-3. He’s still young , we just need to be patient for him .

I honestly feel these pitches are not the kind of situations he should be making a comeback in , and even if he fails it needs to be taken into consideration. Should be given this series and the West Indies series . That’s 6 games which is ample opportunity to proven his mettle .
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Exactly people stil don't understand that he's stil quite young he will get better with more international experience.
 
shamaan said:
Exactly people stil don't understand that he's stil quite young he will get better with more international experience.
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You dont just get better by playing more matches He needs to learn from his mistakes which he doesnt seem to be doing

The problem we have with him hes been brought up on a diet of t20 cricket and he has no idea how to build an innings or play percentage cricket

Rather than playing these slogathon matches he wouldve been better served staying at home and playing fc where hed learn how to construct innings
 
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He played a very good innings in England a while ago.

Good talent and should be backed for a while.
 
Zaz said:
You dont just get better by playing more matches He needs to learn from his mistakes which he doesnt seem to be doing

The problem we have with him hes been brought up on a diet of t20 cricket and he has no idea how to build an innings or play percentage cricket

Rather than playing these slogathon matches he wouldve been better served staying at home and playing fc where hed learn how to construct innings
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I don't think you can learn anything from the on going Qaid E Azam if that's the case then Abid Ali should be in the squad for a long time due to knowing how to construct a Innings.
 
Just incase we didnt know how he prepares for an international game...

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You don't need truck load of accumulators in T20s. Haider must be backed. He is young and will get better with time.
 
shamaan said:
I don't think you can learn anything from the on going Qaid E Azam if that's the case then Abid Ali should be in the squad for a long time due to knowing how to construct a Innings.
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Your comparing oranges with apples The two have no relevance to esch other Abid just isnt good enough
Haider has potential but is playing a format where he doesnt have a chance to learn or take stock

He wont learn anything from playing domestic cricket? Wow So all the past legends were wrong that quality domestic cricket helps develop players from intnl cricket

At least playing dometic list A or FC games he ll learn the art of knowing which shot to play and when, how to go about innings, a method

At the moment he has no clue what hes doing out there Swiping across the line like a tailendee isnt going to make him a success at intnl cricket
 
He needs more FC games under his belt. He has what it takes to be a proper all format batsman but he has been limited to just T20s for over an year now almost.
 
I was getting fed up with this guy constantly finding fielders, but after Asif Ali came good in the T20 world cup following a string of failures, I am willing to be a bit more patient. Haider is actually quite a gifted hitter, if not the most intelligent. In any case there are a raft of Pakistan middle order batsmen who are coming to the end of their careers and we have to put faith in the new guard.
 
We have to persist with him, almost no choice. Our middle order is non existent and he's shown when on form he strikes big hits better than anyone else in the squad. Just 21 years of age too.
 
Haider is at the same point which Umar Akmal was in Tests. Has all the shots, has all the skill to play at the international level but needs to sort out the mental aspect of batting.

Will anyone come to his rescue? Will haider learn from them if they provide feedback ?

Needs to be persisted with, fans need to learn from previous criticisms of Babar Azam in test matches, and Rizwan in T20s , and the amount of pressure that was on them, but they made changes to their game plans and look how they are thriving.
 
Sycamore said:
Haider is at the same point which Umar Akmal was in Tests. Has all the shots, has all the skill to play at the international level but needs to sort out the mental aspect of batting.

Will anyone come to his rescue? Will haider learn from them if they provide feedback ?

Needs to be persisted with, fans need to learn from previous criticisms of Babar Azam in test matches, and Rizwan in T20s , and the amount of pressure that was on them, but they made changes to their game plans and look how they are thriving.
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Less talented than Umar Akmal, although we might not have seen his true potential up till now due to various factors, including his own temperament.

However, Haider has a much better and positive attitude than Umar. This alone will help him make a better career eventually, if we persist with him.
 
I think the only way Pakistan can use him in LOIs is as an aggressive opener who is given the license to tee off from ball one.

He is a good ball striker and he can get value for his shots in PP overs. However, working the fielders, finding the gaps and hitting shots with the field spread out is not his thing, at least not at this stage of his career. In addition, his technique against spin is awful.

If Pakistan cannot accommodate him as an opener at this stage (and they cannot for obvious reasons), he shouldn’t be in the team.
 
We need to see him given a run on better pitches. The next WC is in Australia. You are going to need guys who can strike big there. Haider is flawed, but we need a player of his profile. We are not exactly blessed with options, so he should play a few more series and then his output can be judged.
 
Mamoon said:
I think the only way Pakistan can use him in LOIs is as an aggressive opener who is given the license to tee off from ball one.

He is a good ball striker and he can get value for his shots in PP overs. However, working the fielders, finding the gaps and hitting shots with the field spread out is not his thing, at least not at this stage of his career. In addition, his technique against spin is awful.

If Pakistan cannot accommodate him as an opener at this stage (and they cannot for obvious reasons), he shouldn’t be in the team.
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Umar Akmal probably should have been given the same role but for some reason they never tried that with him.
 
If Haider cannot show some promise before the next T20 WC with a few big innings, like he did on his debut, then we'll have a serious issue. There's no space at the top of the order, he's got to learn to nail down a middle order spot, we desperately need someone to stick their hand up in that area.
 
Saj said:
Look at that dismissal today.

It's the sort of shot that you would see in club cricket or schoolboy cricket.
Click to expand...

Still true. It is not the string of low scores that is frustrating, it is the way he gets out. His shot selection is shockingly poor
 
hitthestump said:
Umar Akmal probably should have been given the same role but for some reason they never tried that with him.
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Both Umar Akmal and Maqsood could have been tried as LOIs opener. Back in the early and mid 2000s, Yousuf could have been tried as an ODI opener as well when Pakistan was struggling to find a competent opener to replace/complement Saeed Anwar.

There is no such thing as a specialist opener in Limited Overs cricket. That concept hasn’t really existed or worked for most teams after the 1980s, as teams realized that since you have limited numbers of balls, you either pick your best batsman or your most attacking batsman as your opener.

Pretty much the vast majority of the most successful ODI/T20 openers over the last 30 odd years weren’t specialist openers and didn’t open in Test cricket.

Pakistan wasted too much finding competent specialists openers from the mid 2000s to 2010s when tweaking the batting order could have produced better results. It is ironic because did make the bold call of converting Afridi into an opener.

The way Rizwan transformed after being promoted as an opener clearly shows that Pakistan should have used this tactic in the last decade or so as well. There is no doubt in my mind that Umar Akmal could have salvaged his career to an extent if he was given the Roy/Bairstow role in ODIs/T20s.
 
Played well today on a tricky pitch. Would have finished if he had half a support at the other end
 
Played a great innings today with a few vital big hits to put us in a good position, but lost his nerve at the end.
 
Haider Ali speaking to PCB:

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/z2bemj" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>
 
Mamoon said:
Both Umar Akmal and Maqsood could have been tried as LOIs opener. Back in the early and mid 2000s, Yousuf could have been tried as an ODI opener as well when Pakistan was struggling to find a competent opener to replace/complement Saeed Anwar.

There is no such thing as a specialist opener in Limited Overs cricket. That concept hasn’t really existed or worked for most teams after the 1980s, as teams realized that since you have limited numbers of balls, you either pick your best batsman or your most attacking batsman as your opener.

Pretty much the vast majority of the most successful ODI/T20 openers over the last 30 odd years weren’t specialist openers and didn’t open in Test cricket.

Pakistan wasted too much finding competent specialists openers from the mid 2000s to 2010s when tweaking the batting order could have produced better results. It is ironic because did make the bold call of converting Afridi into an opener.

The way Rizwan transformed after being promoted as an opener clearly shows that Pakistan should have used this tactic in the last decade or so as well. There is no doubt in my mind that Umar Akmal could have salvaged his career to an extent if he was given the Roy/Bairstow role in ODIs/T20s.
Click to expand...

It’s ludicrous to think Umar would deliver in a Roy/Bairstow role, for one he doesn’t behave like normal human being should and has always lacked intelligence on and off the field, I have complete confidence he would not revive his career in any position. Riswan with limited talent in comparison has thrived due to his superior personality, ability to recognise his flaws and put in the hard work, it’s his grit, mental strength and determination which is the big gulf between someone like him and an Akmal which determines success.
 
But on the other points Moyo is an interesting option which could have thrived, Pak had been stuck in the pre-modern era of cricket for a long time, trying to always pick their top 3 as blokes who must try and see off the new ball rather then utilising dynamism at the top or getting batsman to show some intent, when they’ve gone outside the box a bit like in the 2009 WT20 they have seen some good results and also this time round.
 
Much needed innings.

Only criticism, he should have been not out at the end.
 
Saj said:
Much needed innings.

Only criticism, he should have been not out at the end.
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Difficult pitch but wasn't that great of a innings. Maybe just the two sixes were clean. Everything else seemed mishit or edge.
 
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