[VIDEOS/ PICTURES] Virat Kohli has secured his position as an ATG

[Technics 1210]

Okay so in that logic Jasprit Bumrah is the best fast bowler of all time from Asia? Despite playing in today's batting friendly conditions, he avgs lower than Wasim, Waqar, Imran etc.

Not sure why we change the yard sticks then. If batting in modern era is so easy, why other batsmen in this era could not emulate him?

First of all, if Bumrah is considered the best fast bowler in Asia of all time, it doesn't make him a GOAT. Bumrah would have to be the best fast bowler of all time outside of Asia, and in Asia too, earn a few achievements, captain his team to success, to be even considered in a GOAT debate.

Secondly, your insecurity needs a reality check. If the assumption Ponting could score big in today's ODI laws and regulations, did the the thought ever occur to you on what SRT could achieve in today's ODI laws and regulations? No, it did not. You like all the plebs missed the point India's #1 fan (Mamoon) stated in reference to the number of innings played by Kohli vis-a-vis the top 4 ODI run getters. Read the thread again.

Last but not least, batting in the modern day era is easier, this is why Babar Azam has a higher average than Kohli in ODIs - let this sink in, and come back with better arguments.

Ponting - lightyear - Kohli.

 

[Rajdeep]

First of all, if Bumrah is considered the best fast bowler in Asia of all time, it doesn't make him a GOAT. Bumrah would have to be the best fast bowler of all time outside of Asia, and in Asia too, earn a few achievements, captain his team to success, to be even considered in a GOAT debate.

Secondly, your insecurity needs a reality check. If the assumption Ponting could score big in today's ODI laws and regulations, did the the thought ever occur to you on what SRT could achieve in today's ODI laws and regulations? No, it did not. You like all the plebs missed the point India's #1 fan (Mamoon) stated in reference to the number of innings played by Kohli vis-a-vis the top 4 ODI run getters. Read the thread again.

Last but not least, batting in the modern day era is easier, this is why Babar Azam has a higher average than Kohli in ODIs - let this sink in, and come back with better arguments.

Ponting - lightyear - Kohli.

That is too much talk without any substance. No where did I say Bumrah is GOAT....pls dont put words in my mouth. LOL

You said batting at present era is easier compared to when Ponting played and that is why Virat has better stats than Punter. So I am just drawing a parallel, that based on the same logic Bumrah is better than W's and Imran since he has got better/similar stats but he is playing in modern batting friendly era.

 

[Technics 1210]

That is too much talk without any substance. No where did I say Bumrah is GOAT....pls dont put words in my mouth. LOL

You said batting at present era is easier compared to when Ponting played and that is why Virat has better stats than Punter. So I am just drawing a parallel, that based on the same logic Bumrah is better than W's and Imran since he has got better/similar stats but he is playing in modern batting friendly era.

Batting is easier in present era - feel free to counter this point instead of drawing illogical bowling parallels in a thread about batting.

Talk substance not irrelevant parallels.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Batting is easier in present era - feel free to counter this point instead of drawing illogical bowling parallels in a thread about batting.

Talk substance not irrelevant parallels.

Actually he is not far wrong.

If batting has got easier in this era, then bowling must have got difficult.

This is a natural progression of deductive logic.

You can argue about Ponting being GOAT which is fair.

But if you try to downplay current batsmen by saying batting is easy (as your argument), then deductive logic tells that bowling must be harder since it's easier to score runs.

I don't agree with Bumrah being better than Wasim, but your argument about playing conditions is quite flimsy at best.

 

[Technics 1210]

Actually he is not far wrong.

If batting has got easier in this era, then bowling must have got difficult.

This is a natural progression of deductive logic.

You can argue about Ponting being GOAT which is fair.

But if you try to downplay current batsmen by saying batting is easy (as your argument), then deductive logic tells that bowling must be harder since it's easier to score runs.

I don't agree with Bumrah being better than Wasim, but your argument about playing conditions is quite flimsy at best.

First of all I didn't down play current batsmen, please show me where I have, I was refering to the point being made about Kohli having scored so many runs in lesser innings compared to SRT, Ponting, and Sanga. If the SPS were playing in this era of ODI batting friendly conditions then they'd score their accumulated runs in lesser innings too, this is the point, and if you think otherwise then feel free to counter.

Secondly I couldn't care if Bumrah is considered better than 2Ws etc, and no where did I say bowling isn't harder now that it was before, because I don't have to, since the logic automatically dictates that if the ODI game is now batting friendly game is to updated laws, then bowlers will find it harder but thanks for pointing out the obvious.

That poster was trying to take a stab at Pakistan players, he could have mentioned other bowlers from other countries in the past, but he opted for Pakistani bowlers, because I don't consider his Indian idol a GOAT ODI batsman. Plain and simple. If you cannot see that then it explains how you missed the crux of the batting in modern era debate.

Also if you do not think playing conditions for batsmen are easier today compared with the past, then your point doesn't even come close to flimsy, its laughable at worst.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Players just have to be good enough in their era. THey don't have to time travel to play in another era. In some cases they overlap. Case in point is Kohli and Tendulkar have played 31 internationals together. There was some overlap. One in twilight of his career. One in early career.

Kohli 31 matches 30 innings 1347 runs 51.80 avge 89.91 strike rate 5 centuries 6 fifties (middle order batsman)
Sachin 31 matches 30 innings 1352 runs 46.62 avge 91.04 strike rate 5 centuries 5 fifties (opener)

Remarkably identical stats.

One is master in setting target
One is master in chasing

 

[Technics 1210]

Players just have to be good enough in their era. THey don't have to time travel to play in another era. In some cases they overlap. Case in point is Kohli and Tendulkar have played 31 internationals together. There was some overlap. One in twilight of his career. One in early career.

Kohli 31 matches 30 innings 1347 runs 51.80 avge 89.91 strike rate 5 centuries 6 fifties (middle order batsman)
Sachin 31 matches 30 innings 1352 runs 46.62 avge 91.04 strike rate 5 centuries 5 fifties (opener)

Remarkably identical stats.

One is master in setting target
One is master in chasing

There is nothing remarkable about these stats. These stats prove that SRT scored as easy as Kohli in a batting friendly era albeit overlapping. In fact SRT would have scored more if he played most of his career in today's era, considering during the overlap period he was in the twilight of his career so was well past his peak.

 

[jnaveen1980]

There is nothing remarkable about these stats. These stats prove that SRT scored as easy as Kohli in a batting friendly era albeit overlapping. In fact SRT would have scored more if he played most of his career in today's era, considering during the overlap period he was in the twilight of his career so was well past his peak.

No he was not well past his peak. He made a 200 in one of the match. You have to understand Kohli was not exactly a ODI legend right of the bat. He came way down the order. It took a while for him to become one. Tendulkar was a veteran. Infact Kohli was part of the match where Tendulkar scored first ever 200 in a ODI. In that match Kohli did not even bat. Dinesh Karthik, Yusuf pathan, Dhoni all batted ahead of Kohli. Hobart ODI was the turning point of his career where India had to win in 38 overs or so to get qualified. He ripped Malinga to shreds. Kohli was exactly the same batsman in 2008 under-19 world cup. All the shots he plays now were part of his repertoire even then.

Kohli's game is not pitch dependent or rules dependent. He is largely a ground stroke player. That is why he scored so many 100s. His kind of game works in any era. He never sweeps. He doesn't play funky shots. Almost all his shots are text book shots. That is one of the reason why Kohli was incredibly consistent in T20 too.

Attitude has changed these days. Those days batsmen would go after bowling in the first 15 and then the last 10. Nowadays they start acceleration around 30th over.Game has evolved. Bowlers have evolved. Batsmen have evolved. Approach has evolved.

So it is hard to compare across the era. You just have to check how good he is in his era compared to others. Now we project Smith as an ATG test batsman under the same criteria. Starting his career as a tailender is averaging 61 in Tests. Labuschagne with a first class record of 35 is averaging over 50 in Tests. Should we trivialize their record? In every era you have flat pitches, turning pitches, bouncy pitches. In every era you have trundlers (probably a lot more trundlers in the bygone eras). In every era you have weak oppositions. In every era you have bad captains, good captains. In every era one team or the other go through transition. So let us just enjoy what they do in their era and leave it at that.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Couple of months back when was this talks about him being GOAT came up this is what he had to say

Talking on Star Sports, Kohli said, “No, I wouldn't consider myself the GOAT of cricket. For me, only 2 people qualify for it. It's Sachin Tendulkar and Viv Richards.”

 

[Technics 1210]

No he was not well past his peak. He made a 200 in one of the match. You have to understand Kohli was not exactly a ODI legend right of the bat. He came way down the order. It took a while for him to become one. Tendulkar was a veteran. Infact Kohli was part of the match where Tendulkar scored first ever 200 in a ODI. In that match Kohli did not even bat. Dinesh Karthik, Yusuf pathan, Dhoni all batted ahead of Kohli. Hobart ODI was the turning point of his career where India had to win in 38 overs or so to get qualified. He ripped Malinga to shreds. Kohli was exactly the same batsman in 2008 under-19 world cup. All the shots he plays now were part of his repertoire even then.

Kohli's game is not pitch dependent or rules dependent. He is largely a ground stroke player. That is why he scored so many 100s. His kind of game works in any era. He never sweeps. He doesn't play funky shots. Almost all his shots are text book shots. That is one of the reason why Kohli was incredibly consistent in T20 too.

Attitude has changed these days. Those days batsmen would go after bowling in the first 15 and then the last 10. Nowadays they start acceleration around 30th over.Game has evolved. Bowlers have evolved. Batsmen have evolved. Approach has evolved.

So it is hard to compare across the era. You just have to check how good he is in his era compared to others. Now we project Smith as an ATG test batsman under the same criteria. Starting his career as a tailender is averaging 61 in Tests. Labuschagne with a first class record of 35 is averaging over 50 in Tests. Should we trivialize their record? In every era you have flat pitches, turning pitches, bouncy pitches. In every era you have trundlers (probably a lot more trundlers in the bygone eras). In every era you have weak oppositions. In every era you have bad captains, good captains. In every era one team or the other go through transition. So let us just enjoy what they do in their era and leave it at that.

What do Test stats have to do with the point of ODI law changes with respect to fielding positions?

SRT was not past his peak? Twilight means towards the end of a career. (You also mention SRT was in his twilight in the overlap period). That 200 was an anomaly during the phase of his career, and don't forget how long it took SRT to score his 100th 100 from when he was on 99 centuries. SRT was well past his peak towards the end of his ODI career.

So Kohli started well down the order? So what? He still scored his 1st ODI century quicket than SRT. SRT took 70 odd ODI innings before he scored his first ever ODI century (well before power plays were introduced), which is shocking considering what he was achieving in Tests, but also understandable given the lack of fielding restrictions in pre power play era in ODI.

The fact is since the introduction of power play, it has been easier for batsmen to score runs, and this is further evidenced by the fact of 300+ scores started becoming the norm in ODI since the intro of PP, not to mention double tons in ODI - batsmen are willing to take more risks during the PP phase due to fielding restrictions.

You can call this trivialising records, but it's not, it's call adding context and perspective - you do it all the time - with scores against minnows vs heavyweight - why trivialise when a ton is a ton, right?

No one here is dissing Kohli's achievements, but no one here can tell me with a straight face that PPs have not made a difference especially considering ICC introduced the PP to promote high scoring games in ODI.

And no, we cannot dismiss good captains or bad captains across eras, captaincy is about understanding the game/situation and is a reflection of intellect. It honestly sounds like you are making excuses which I doubt you would have made if Dhoni was being debated.

If you do not think law changes in ODIs effect the outcome of a performance then good for you, because you do not have to take my word for it, you just have to listen to players of the past who say the same thing - ODI law changes, PP, and 2 balls, have indeed made it easier for batsmen to score runs.

Let me be clear, I consider Kohli an ATG, but I do not see him as a GOAT. GOATs do not need stats to justify their status. When fans talk about Warne, no one mentions his economy rate, they just remember his great performances - just as with SRT, Viv, and of course, Ponting.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Kohli is the GOAT LOI batsman without a doubt now.

 

[JaDed]

Kohli is not GOAT overall for me, he is GOAT T20.. but not GOAT overall.

SRT is GOAT

 

[jnaveen1980]

What do Test stats have to do with the point of ODI law changes with respect to fielding positions?

SRT was not past his peak? Twilight means towards the end of a career. (You also mention SRT was in his twilight in the overlap period). That 200 was an anomaly during the phase of his career, and don't forget how long it took SRT to score his 100th 100 from when he was on 99 centuries. SRT was well past his peak towards the end of his ODI career.

So Kohli started well down the order? So what? He still scored his 1st ODI century quicket than SRT. SRT took 70 odd ODI innings before he scored his first ever ODI century (well before power plays were introduced), which is shocking considering what he was achieving in Tests, but also understandable given the lack of fielding restrictions in pre power play era in ODI.

The fact is since the introduction of power play, it has been easier for batsmen to score runs, and this is further evidenced by the fact of 300+ scores started becoming the norm in ODI since the intro of PP, not to mention double tons in ODI - batsmen are willing to take more risks during the PP phase due to fielding restrictions.

You can call this trivialising records, but it's not, it's call adding context and perspective - you do it all the time - with scores against minnows vs heavyweight - why trivialise when a ton is a ton, right?

No one here is dissing Kohli's achievements, but no one here can tell me with a straight face that PPs have not made a difference especially considering ICC introduced the PP to promote high scoring games in ODI.

And no, we cannot dismiss good captains or bad captains across eras, captaincy is about understanding the game/situation and is a reflection of intellect. It honestly sounds like you are making excuses which I doubt you would have made if Dhoni was being debated.

If you do not think law changes in ODIs effect the outcome of a performance then good for you, because you do not have to take my word for it, you just have to listen to players of the past who say the same thing - ODI law changes, PP, and 2 balls, have indeed made it easier for batsmen to score runs.

Let me be clear, I consider Kohli an ATG, but I do not see him as a GOAT. GOATs do not need stats to justify their status. When fans talk about Warne, no one mentions his economy rate, they just remember his great performances - just as with SRT, Viv, and of course, Ponting.

So many cricketers have already called virat a GOAT. If you poll like 100 cricketers i won't be shocked if 50% picked Kohli. It is because of the match winning impact.

Performance in match winning causes (min 4000 runs)



Performance in match winning while chasing (min 3000 runs)




This is even after pandemic slump of 3 years. People forget what he was doing for a period of 4 years. As a long term follower of cricket the confidence in his batting prowess has never been witnessed if you exclude Viv Richards. If you strictly talk about batting average increase post 2015 it is only like 2 or 3 runs compared to 2000s. Even before two new ball rule he was averaging like 47 in 74 match with 8 centuries.

Attitude and approach has changed. That's it. Have we forgotten how Jayasuriya, Gilchrist, Afridi, Sehwag played in 2000s? Sehwag scored 287 runs in 2.5 sessions of a day against Murali and Herath in a Test match. Sehwag's test strike rate is 82. He did play 70 over ball. Did that stop him? Now there are more Sehwags. if you play Maravan Attapattu, Misba Ul Haq, Chanderpaul in this era they are not going to reel out 100s.

Funny thing is this is exactly the same talk that was going on in the 2000s. "Hey back in those days they had light weight bat, If Sandip patil had batted in this era he would have scored a lot of runs". It is just one of those things that will keep repeating. In 2040 fans will be saying.. "you know in 2020 run making was not this easy". You have to admit batsmen improve, bowlers improve. They analyze their mistakes they improve their striking ability. Look at SKY. When he started his career nobody could see such shots in the IPL. In the last 2 years or so he has mastered all these funky shots. He is 32. Almost the same age as Kohli. We cannot summarily reject all the good performances of current era. Be it is bowling or batting.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Kohli is not GOAT overall for me, he is GOAT T20.. but not GOAT overall.

SRT is GOAT

FOr sheer longevity playing across era having success puts him in that category for sure only slighlty. Also he is one of the best world cup performer along with Ponting/Richards excluding minnows. Tendulkar was able to bounce back from the lows. Kohli has to demonstrate that yet. That is the ultimate test for a world class player. It is fine and dandy when you are in form. Everything will flow like a river. Still whatever he has acehieved will put him in special place.

 

[WengerOut]

Kohli is an ATG but not the GOAT ( In ODIs ). In tests, he is a very good batsman in this era, not an ATG.

 

[JaDed]

FOr sheer longevity playing across era having success puts him in that category for sure only slighlty. Also he is one of the best world cup performer along with Ponting/Richards excluding minnows. Tendulkar was able to bounce back from the lows. Kohli has to demonstrate that yet. That is the ultimate test for a world class player. It is fine and dandy when you are in form. Everything will flow like a river. Still whatever he has acehieved will put him in special place.

Kohli is ATG but hard to call him GOAT..except the one format.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Kohli is ATG but hard to call him GOAT..except the one format.

T20 formatt is a joke format. Seriously. yes it is hard to be consistent and also stay as a match winner. Creditt to him for finding a way to be that. But this format performance has to be taken with a pinch of salt. Yes if there is any such GOAT category he will definitely be up there. Without indulging in any kind of gimmick stroke play he managed to be very successful.

 

[Smbhayi]

The fact is since the introduction of power play, it has been easier for batsmen to score runs, and this is further evidenced by the fact of 300+ scores started becoming the norm in ODI since the intro of PP, not to mention double tons in ODI - batsmen are willing to take more risks during the PP phase due to fielding restrictions.

Why don't people remember that there were field restrictions before PP came along? Before 2005, only 2 fielders were allowed to stand in the outside circle in the first fifteen overs! The name Power Play came only in 2005, and even before that there were field restrictions in ODI cricket

 

[jnaveen1980]

Why don't people remember that there were field restrictions before PP came along? Before 2005, only 2 fielders were allowed to stand in the outside circle in the first fifteen overs! The name Power Play came only in 2005, and even before that there were field restrictions in ODI cricket

Then there was this rule of playing 12 players in the mid 2000s. One substitute. One bats. one bowls

 

[Joseph Gomes]

I rate Kohli below Tendulkar, Viv and ABD in ODIs. In T20I, Kohli is the GOAT for now.

Kohli is definitely an ATG overall. ATG in ODIs, GOAT in T20I, great in tests

 

[Aman]

Why don't people remember that there were field restrictions before PP came along? Before 2005, only 2 fielders were allowed to stand in the outside circle in the first fifteen overs! The name Power Play came only in 2005, and even before that there were field restrictions in ODI cricket

2 new balls... Zero reverse swing in the death overs.

 

[jnaveen1980]

2 new balls... Zero reverse swing in the death overs.

Didn't australia score 438 and SA hunted it dow before 2 new ball? Tendulkar made 200, Sehwag 219. It is not just new ball. It is the attitude that has changed. How do you explain England's batting against Pakistan in the Test match with "one new ball" for 80 overs. They scored over 500 runs in a single day. Most of the time their run rate was around 7. Teams make 200 plus easily in T20 game where you still use one new ball. Back then teams would be 200 by 40th over. England's recent 4th innings chases are faster than one day games in the 2000s. It helps to some extent. But that is not just it. back then very few had that mindset. Sehwag, Gilchrist, Jayasuriya.

 

[WengerOut]

Didn't australia score 438 and SA hunted it dow before 2 new ball? Tendulkar made 200, Sehwag 219. It is not just new ball. It is the attitude that has changed. How do you explain England's batting against Pakistan in the Test match with "one new ball" for 80 overs. They scored over 500 runs in a single day. Most of the time their run rate was around 7. Teams make 200 plus easily in T20 game where you still use one new ball. Back then teams would be 200 by 40th over. England's recent 4th innings chases are faster than one day games in the 2000s. It helps to some extent. But that is not just it. back then very few had that mindset. Sehwag, Gilchrist, Jayasuriya.

There will be outliers in every era. 2 new balls have definitely made it very hard for bowlers. Reverse swing is gone. It is very difficult to score when the ball is soft. PP rules were 2 fielders outside ring in first 15, after that 5 outside. This was changed to blocks of 2, 4 and then 5. Area a single fielder can cover is significant. This means upto 40 overs there are fielding restrictions of varying degree which helps batting.

In short, rules were changed to make ODIs more exciting ( i did not find any issue with old rules ), but made it a slogfest and hence ODIs are basically JAMODIs now.

 

[jnaveen1980]

There will be outliers in every era. 2 new balls have definitely made it very hard for bowlers. Reverse swing is gone. It is very difficult to score when the ball is soft. PP rules were 2 fielders outside ring in first 15, after that 5 outside. This was changed to blocks of 2, 4 and then 5. Area a single fielder can cover is significant. This means upto 40 overs there are fielding restrictions of varying degree which helps batting.

In short, rules were changed to make ODIs more exciting ( i did not find any issue with old rules ), but made it a slogfest and hence ODIs are basically JAMODIs now.

Split the 2000s in to t wo parts. If you look at it between 2005 till the 2010 Run rates became much higher most teams. There was only one team that had an average run rate over 5 in the first half. You could see 6 teams having an average run rate over 5 in the next half. Game was bound to progress with or without rule changes. T20 leagues only expedited it. Bringing back old rules is not going to stifle them as you can see in Tests or T20s

 

[WengerOut]

Split the 2000s in to t wo parts. If you look at it between 2005 till the 2010 Run rates became much higher most teams. There was only one team that had an average run rate over 5 in the first half. You could see 6 teams having an average run rate over 5 in the next half. Game was bound to progress with or without rule changes. T20 leagues only expedited it. Bringing back old rules is not going to stifle them as you can see in Tests or T20s

From 2005 things started to change. It exploded from 2011 when the 2 new ball rule came. Bowlers became more of a side show.

 

[Smbhayi]

Then there was this rule of playing 12 players in the mid 2000s. One substitute. One bats. one bowls

Super Sub.. most of the time India's super Sub was Venugopal Rao and almost all the time he gets out cheaply..

 

[Smbhayi]

2 new balls... Zero reverse swing in the death overs.

Was talking about pp (first ten).. just mentioning these power plays was there in even 1980s (first 15 overs)..

 

[Mainul]

Kohli is already a two time champion. He won the 2011 World Cup & the 2013 Champions Trophy.

His 100+ run partnership with Gambhir in the 2011 final when India were 2 down for 20 was crucial to India’s victory & he top scored in the 2013 Champions Trophy final in difficult conditions in a rain-hit game.

So even if my definition was what you inferred, he is an all-time great.

However, my definition is very clear: trophies add gloss to your career; they do not make or break careers neither do they define them.

Nothing players have won World Cups & legends have not. Brian Lara has not won a World Cup but Moeen Ali has. I can go on & on.

No batsman in history has dominated the ODI format the way Kohli. There is no one close to him. To say that he is not an all-time great because he has failed in several knockout matches & has not won an ODI trophy in 10 years is utter nonsense.

If he is not an all-time great, no one is.

Just a correction: That was a 83 runs partnership with Ghambir . Yes it was a crucial partnership though virat's contribution was not a big one one, he scored 35 in the final and so was his average in the whole tournament. He was a regular member in the playing 11 in that tournament .
Your explanation makes sense . He is an ATG of the game already

 

[Sam99]

Agree. Kohli is all format ATG and he has nothing much left to prove in any format anymore. Maybe he can look to break 100 century record from here and icc event win would be cherry on top. Other fab four members might not have half the centuries & runs as him.

 

[MenInG]

 

[MenInG]

India batter Virat Kohli scaled another historic milestone in his career, becoming the fastest batter to score 25,000 runs in international cricket. He did so on Day 3 of the second Test against Australia in New Delhi. In the process, Kohli surpassed his idol and the Master Blaster, Sachin Tendulkar, who had reached the landmark in 577 matches. Virat, on the other hand, did so in 549 matches. Following Virat and Sachin are the likes of Ricky Ponting (588), Jacques Kallis (594), Kumar Sangakkara (608) and Mahela Jayawardene (701).

Kohli arrived on the crease after Indian opening batters KL Rahul and Rohit Sharma departed early. While Rahul could only score 1 run, continuing his horror form, Rohit got off to a bright start but lost his wicket following a mix-up with Cheteshwar Pujara.

He hit a few glorious shots and made his intentions of wrapping up the run-chase quickly clear. But, just when Kohli was looking settled, Todd Murphy got the better of him, sending the former India skipper packing for 20 runs off 31 balls.

NDTV

 

[MenInG]

Speaking on the RCB Podcast, India star Virat Kohli opened up on his captaincy and the relationship he shared with his predecessor, MS Dhoni.

Under Kohli’s tenure as captain, India achieved massive success across formats.

The side won 40 out of 68 Tests, 65 out of 95 ODIs and 30 out of 50 T20Is under Kohli’s leadership. During his years as skipper, India achieved limited overs success away from home including historic ODI series wins in Australia and South Africa.

In the longer format, they showcased an enviable dominance at home while also being competitive away. This included a first-ever series win Down Under in 2018/19.

At the same time there were drawbacks, including a failure to win ICC trophies.

However, Kohli didn’t judge himself for this lack of success. For him bringing about a change in the team's culture was the high point of his leadership. Under Kohli's leadership, India reached the final of the 2017 ICC Champions Trophy, the semis of the 2019 ICC Men's Cricket World Cup and the final of the 2021 ICC World Test Championship.

“Look you play to win tournaments, and a lot was made of it (India not winning ICC tournaments) to be honest,” Kohli said. “ We reached the finals of 2017 Champions Trophy, we reached the semis of the World Cup and finals of the Test Championship, and I was considered as a failed captain. I never judged myself from that point of view.

“What we ended up achieving as a team and the cultural change, for me that’s always going to be a matter of pride because tournaments happen for a certain period of time but a culture happens over a long period of time, and for that you need consistency, for that you need more character than just winning a tournament.”

Kohli was grateful for the success he saw as a player and believed that winning trophies depended on several variables including discipline and conduct.

“I won World Cup as a player (2011), I won the Champions Trophy (2013) as a player. I’ve been part of a team that won five Test maces. If you look at it from that point of view, there have been people who have never won a World Cup.

“When things are meant to be, things are meant to be. Sachin Tendulkar was playing his sixth World Cup, and that was the one he won. And I was a part of the team for the first time, and we ended up winning the World Cup. So if I had to look at what went wrong with my career, it’s very easy to do that, but I look at what’s gone right in my career and I’m grateful for that.”

Kohli described his relationship with India legend MS Dhoni in glowing terms. Kohli’s leadership stint with the senior side began as vice-captain under Dhoni.

It was after Dhoni’s retirement that Kohli took over as Test skipper in 2014. And in January 2017, Kohli again stepped up to become the team’s leader after Dhoni quit as the limited-overs captain.

Kohli said that there was no “awkwardness” in his transition to captaincy because Dhoni understood that the Delhi player had a good grasp of the game.

“With me and MS (Dhoni), there was no question of any awkwardness in that whole period because MS chose me,” Kohli added.

“It wasn’t the other way around. When you understand that as a captain, you already have someone who has been under your wing since he was 23 and vice-captain.

“I was always having conversations with him about what we can do in the field. My suggestions to him, whether we can take it on the board. So I was always his right-hand man. I was always there understanding the game and we also got confidence, because I was playing a lot of match-winning knocks for the team.

“So he understood that I understand the game, I understand where the game is going and what I need to do. I was giving him a lot of input on the field. I was always with the feel of the game.

“He understood that very early, so he kind of took me under his wing and since 2012, I was groomed to be the next guy who’s going to take over. That’s why it (transition) was very smooth.”

ICC

 

[jnaveen1980]

Post pandemic slump he never recovered. Don't think he will recover.

 

[MenInG]

Still no joy for VK in terms of 100s since 2019 I believe

 

[zarak]

ATGs are made in test cricket. I don't think you can be a test ATG with a 48 average

 

[zarak]

Agree. Kohli is all format ATG and he has nothing much left to prove in any format anymore. Maybe he can look to break 100 century record from here and icc event win would be cherry on top. Other fab four members might not have half the centuries & runs as him.

That test average is sinking. If it doesn't improve at some point it will be too low for atg status

 

[Savak]

Tendulkar played many knocks and scored hundreds on some difficult wickets against world class bowlers something I have never seen Kohli do in test cricket

 

[MP2011]

Tendulkar played many knocks and scored hundreds on some difficult wickets against world class bowlers something I have never seen Kohli do in test cricket

Kohli is nowhere near Tendulkar in tests.

 

[Aman]

Still no joy for VK in terms of 100s since 2019 I believe

4 years since last Test ton is insane. That too for someone of his stature and position in the team. India effectively playing with a batsmen down with him in the team.

 

[Aman]

 

[Aman]

 

[Mamoon]

Kohli is in terminal decline. Poor form cannot continue for 3-4 years. 2018-19 was his final peak.

He played an insane amount of cricket in his teens and 20s and was burnt out by the time he hit the 30 mark.

His workload + captaincy burden from 2010-2019 in additional to his amazing work ethic and fitness regime meant that he was drained out by 30 and physically he was more like 35-36.

He pushed himself to the limits and reaped the rewards too. His peak was sensational and he established himself as one of the biggest superstars the game has ever seen.

I think he will continue to play Test cricket for a while but there is a strong chance he retires from white ball after the World Cup this year.

His performances against almost all major sides over the last 3-4 years has been very average. He performs against Pakistan but that is because he owns Pakistan.

Regardless of the format, the conditions and his form, he will dominate Pakistan because he has a huge psychological impact and the Pakistani bowlers fear him and are intimated by his presence and aura.

You can’t fault them though considering how he has been the biggest point of difference in Pakistan-India matches in his career and has put Pakistan to the sword over and over again and won countless matches single-handedly.

 

[zarak]

Kohli is in terminal decline. Poor form cannot continue for 3-4 years. 2018-19 was his final peak.

He played an insane amount of cricket in his teens and 20s and was burnt out by the time he hit the 30 mark.

His workload + captaincy burden from 2010-2019 in additional to his amazing work ethic and fitness regime meant that he was drained out by 30 and physically he was more like 35-36.

He pushed himself to the limits and reaped the rewards too. His peak was sensational and he established himself as one of the biggest superstars the game has ever seen.

I think he will continue to play Test cricket for a while but there is a strong chance he retires from white ball after the World Cup this year.

His performances against almost all major sides over the last 3-4 years has been very average. He performs against Pakistan but that is because he owns Pakistan.

Regardless of the format, the conditions and his form, he will dominate Pakistan because he has a huge psychological impact and the Pakistani bowlers fear him and are intimated by his presence and aura.

You can’t fault them though considering how he has been the biggest point of difference in Pakistan-India matches in his career and has put Pakistan to the sword over and over again and won countless matches single-handedly.

I think he should retire in tests where skill matters most. He can still survive in white ball. He's severely damaging his legacy in tests. Average will soon be at Azhar Ali level

 

[Free Hit]

Kohli is in terminal decline. Poor form cannot continue for 3-4 years. 2018-19 was his final peak.

He played an insane amount of cricket in his teens and 20s and was burnt out by the time he hit the 30 mark.

His workload + captaincy burden from 2010-2019 in additional to his amazing work ethic and fitness regime meant that he was drained out by 30 and physically he was more like 35-36.

He pushed himself to the limits and reaped the rewards too. His peak was sensational and he established himself as one of the biggest superstars the game has ever seen.

I think he will continue to play Test cricket for a while but there is a strong chance he retires from white ball after the World Cup this year.

His performances against almost all major sides over the last 3-4 years has been very average. He performs against Pakistan but that is because he owns Pakistan.

Regardless of the format, the conditions and his form, he will dominate Pakistan because he has a huge psychological impact and the Pakistani bowlers fear him and are intimated by his presence and aura.

You can’t fault them though considering how he has been the biggest point of difference in Pakistan-India matches in his career and has put Pakistan to the sword over and over again and won countless matches single-handedly.

Whatever

Only if Musharaf had located you too when he went after bugti and handed you over to India, Abhinandan style. BLOODY INDIAN

 

[MP2011]

If ever there was a leach, this guy is one, eating away Indian cricket for last 4 years and counting.....

 

[Adijazz1706]

If ever there was a leach, this guy is one, eating away Indian cricket for last 4 years and counting.....

There already is a Leach, he plays for England
On topic Kohli is just doing what Dhoni has done with prolonging his career due to brand value exposure etc, nothing new

 

[MP2011]

There already is a Leach, he plays for England
On topic Kohli is just doing what Dhoni has done with prolonging his career due to brand value exposure etc, nothing new

Needless to say, I was talking about leach, the parasite/animal!

As for your second line, I fully concur. No wonder, Kohli eulogizes Dhoni every now and then.

 

[PakEngFan]

Kohli is in terminal decline. Poor form cannot continue for 3-4 years. 2018-19 was his final peak.

He played an insane amount of cricket in his teens and 20s and was burnt out by the time he hit the 30 mark.

His workload + captaincy burden from 2010-2019 in additional to his amazing work ethic and fitness regime meant that he was drained out by 30 and physically he was more like 35-36.

He pushed himself to the limits and reaped the rewards too. His peak was sensational and he established himself as one of the biggest superstars the game has ever seen.

I think he will continue to play Test cricket for a while but there is a strong chance he retires from white ball after the World Cup this year.

His performances against almost all major sides over the last 3-4 years has been very average. He performs against Pakistan but that is because he owns Pakistan.

Regardless of the format, the conditions and his form, he will dominate Pakistan because he has a huge psychological impact and the Pakistani bowlers fear him and are intimated by his presence and aura.

You can’t fault them though considering how he has been the biggest point of difference in Pakistan-India matches in his career and has put Pakistan to the sword over and over again and won countless matches single-handedly.

Poor excuses. You can do better to defend him.

 

[Mamoon]

Poor excuses. You can do better to defend him.

He is one of the greatest of all time and leagues above any batsman Pakistan has ever produced. He does not need anyone defending him. Time doesn’t stop for anyone. There is no shame in declining.

 

[Rajdeep]

He looked best Indian batsman today on that horrible pitch.

 

[Savak]

Kohli has been surviving on reputation in the test format for the last 4 years. Someone else might not have been this lucky. Even Dravid, VVS Laxman, Sehwag, Gambhir were not allowed such a long rope.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

He is one of the greatest of all time and leagues above any batsman Pakistan has ever produced. He does not need anyone defending him. Time doesn’t stop for anyone. There is no shame in declining.

Fully agree — he is one of the true greats of the modern era — to think anything else is partisan bias.
He is also probably better than any batsman produced by Pakistan.

His performance in Australia, during a period of astonishing Australian hegemony is incredible.
The only blemish would be his average performance in England in England — for that reason he is probably a notch below Gavaskar and Tendulkar as a Test player.

Two other points in his favour
1) He was an all format star cf Root or Williamson
2) The weight of expectation on an Indian player (esp the captain) is like nothing else.

Finally, world cricket owes him an enormous debt — he prioritised and lauded Test cricket (Dhoni never gave the impression he did).
Quite frankly, if India don’t give the format the highest priority it will whither.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Kohli should retire from Test cricket, and focus on LOIs. Kohli has been mediocre for over half his test career (2011-2013, 2020- present). Test cricket was never Kohli's strong suit, he was always a better LOI batsman.

 

[PakEngFan]

He is one of the greatest of all time and leagues above any batsman Pakistan has ever produced. He does not need anyone defending him. Time doesn’t stop for anyone. There is no shame in declining.

As odi batsmen without a doubt other than choking. As a test bat he has a pathetic record in several countries such as England, NZ and West Indies. Someone like younis khan has better all round career statics than him in test. Try again.

 

[PakEngFan]

Fully agree — he is one of the true greats of the modern era — to think anything else is partisan bias.
He is also probably better than any batsman produced by Pakistan.

His performance in Australia, during a period of astonishing Australian hegemony is incredible.
The only blemish would be his average performance in England in England — for that reason he is probably a notch below Gavaskar and Tendulkar as a Test player.

Two other points in his favour
1) He was an all format star cf Root or Williamson
2) The weight of expectation on an Indian player (esp the captain) is like nothing else.

Finally, world cricket owes him an enormous debt — he prioritised and lauded Test cricket (Dhoni never gave the impression he did).
Quite frankly, if India don’t give the format the highest priority it will whither.

Only England? What about NZ and West Indies and I am not even counting Bangladesh.

 

[Ab Fan]

Kohli had Amla level decline. Actually, his career has been same as Amla in Tests.

Mediocre in first 30% of the career.
Great in next 40% of the career.
Poor in last 30% of the career.

 

[Ab Fan]

Kohli is ahead of Williamson. Look at Williamson's performance vs top 5 teams home and away( SENA and India):-

Kohli 5873 runs, AVG 46
Williamson 3230 runs, AVG 39

Such a huge difference in runs tally. This tells us the quality of opposition that Williamson got to play compared to what Kohli got to play.

Away from home, the difference gets only bigger.

Kohli 3356 runs, AVG 43
Williamson 1645 runs, AVG 33

 

[Savak]

Kohli is ahead of Williamson. Look at Williamson's performance vs top 5 teams home and away( SENA and India):-

Kohli 5873 runs, AVG 46
Williamson 3230 runs, AVG 39

Such a huge difference in runs tally. This tells us the quality of opposition that Williamson got to play compared to what Kohli got to play.

Away from home, the difference gets only bigger.

Kohli 3356 runs, AVG 43
Williamson 1645 runs, AVG 33

That's not the question that is being asked is it?

Fact is Kohli has sucked badly as a batsman in the last 3 years in test cricket.

 

[pillionrider]

The last time he was being written off in T20s, he produced a GOAT performance vs Pakistan.

He has looked very good in his 30s and 40s. It sounds like a pathetic excuse from blind fans. And I’m not one. I respect him though. I’ve seen the decline of Tendulkar and Dhoni (in whose case, it was an extended period) and they just looked bad. Kohli doesn’t look finished like they did.

He isn’t leaving soon.

 

[Suleiman]

The last time he was being written off in T20s, he produced a GOAT performance vs Pakistan.

He has looked very good in his 30s and 40s. It sounds like a pathetic excuse from blind fans. And I’m not one. I respect him though. I’ve seen the decline of Tendulkar and Dhoni (in whose case, it was an extended period) and they just looked bad. Kohli doesn’t look finished like they did.

He isn’t leaving soon.

Was about to say the same. The type of player he is, another 1-4 year run of world class performances might just be around the corner to finish the career off with.

Also, which ATG didn’t go through such a phase? I guess maybe Viv. Even though he isn’t a test ATG, it’s very difficult to just say “lol he’s done”. Very resilient individual

 

[Hitman]

Was about to say the same. The type of player he is, another 1-4 year run of world class performances might just be around the corner to finish the career off with.

Also, which ATG didn’t go through such a phase? I guess maybe Viv. Even though he isn’t a test ATG, it’s very difficult to just say “lol he’s done”. Very resilient individual

Viv started declining from 1989 in Test cricket.

 

[RamLakhan]

In fact he should make up his mind and consider retiring from at least one format, only then he can retain that legacy of ATG Tag. With every single match he is actually damaging his reputation! Unfortunately the modern commercial world rides over one's self-esteem... The only reason he is sticking on is because of pressure from commercial endorsement and maybe also due to ego (Asians have more of this compared to others! SENA nations would have forced him to retire long back!)

 

[MP2011]

Kohli had Amla level decline. Actually, his career has been same as Amla in Tests.

Mediocre in first 30% of the career.
Great in next 40% of the career.
Poor in last 30% of the career.

Good observation.

 

[Mamoon]

The last time he was being written off in T20s, he produced a GOAT performance vs Pakistan.

He has looked very good in his 30s and 40s. It sounds like a pathetic excuse from blind fans. And I’m not one. I respect him though. I’ve seen the decline of Tendulkar and Dhoni (in whose case, it was an extended period) and they just looked bad. Kohli doesn’t look finished like they did.

He isn’t leaving soon.

Kohli owns Pakistan, so he should not be judged by how he performs against them. Even today, if there is a Test series between the two countries he will single-handedly destroy Pakistan.

 

[Mamoon]

As odi batsmen without a doubt other than choking. As a test bat he has a pathetic record in several countries such as England, NZ and West Indies. Someone like younis khan has better all round career statics than him in test. Try again.

Kohli has more centuries in Australia alone than Younis does in Australia, England, South Africa and New Zealand combined.

Don’t embarrass yourself with such analysis. Younis was a very fine Test player but Kohli is different class. As a batsman, he is in the class of Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Sir Viv etc.

Younis is clearly below that league. He is in the class of Clarke, Pujara, Jayawardene, Chanderpaul etc.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Pujara looking very good and another failure for Kohli, that average is plummeting rn

 

[PakEngFan]

Kohli has more centuries in Australia alone than Younis does in Australia, England, South Africa and New Zealand combined.

Don’t embarrass yourself with such analysis. Younis was a very fine Test player but Kohli is different class. As a batsman, he is in the class of Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Sir Viv etc.

Younis is clearly below that league. He is in the class of Clarke, Pujara, Jayawardene, Chanderpaul etc.

Don’t embarrass yourself by putting him in the same bracket as Lara, ponting etc. he’s several levels below of root and smith. Younis has similar if not better away average than Kohli. All them centuries he got in Australia were of no use as his team was well beaten. Even majority Indians agree that he’s not as good as a test bat as he is in limited overs.

I wouldn’t call other people assessment embarrassment considering you said Ashwin is better than Imran that’s the hight of embarrassment.

 

[VForVendetta]

There are absolutely zero chances of him getting dropped. Because to be able to do something like that your leadership needs strong backbone, something clearly Rohit & Dravid lack. So he will continue to play as long as he wishes no matter how poor he performs & no matter how much it negatively impacts his team. It's been a long tradition of subcontinent where "top" guys always get to prolong their careers for an insane amount of time. Reasons vary from personal milestone to pressure from sponsors to simply satisfying their ego.Gavaskar,Kapil,Miandad,Imran,Wasim,Injamam, Murali,Sachin,Dhoni,Afridi everyone did it.Currently Sakib & Kohli are doing it. It doesn't surprise me one bit.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">No Test hundred for Virat Kohli in his last 41 innings. His last Test century was on 23rd November 2019 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/INDvAUS?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#INDvAUS</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1631251229014740993?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 2, 2023</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Virat Kohli's Test average of 48.12 is the lowest it has been since November 2016 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/IndvsAus?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#IndvsAus</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1631252524807208960?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 2, 2023</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Mirpuri Don]

He might end up with VVS-like numbers in Tests, runs short of 9000, and average around the 45 mark.

 

[Pakhs]

Kohli is in terminal decline. Poor form cannot continue for 3-4 years. 2018-19 was his final peak.

He played an insane amount of cricket in his teens and 20s and was burnt out by the time he hit the 30 mark.

His workload + captaincy burden from 2010-2019 in additional to his amazing work ethic and fitness regime meant that he was drained out by 30 and physically he was more like 35-36.

He pushed himself to the limits and reaped the rewards too. His peak was sensational and he established himself as one of the biggest superstars the game has ever seen.

I think he will continue to play Test cricket for a while but there is a strong chance he retires from white ball after the World Cup this year.

His performances against almost all major sides over the last 3-4 years has been very average. He performs against Pakistan but that is because he owns Pakistan.

Regardless of the format, the conditions and his form, he will dominate Pakistan because he has a huge psychological impact and the Pakistani bowlers fear him and are intimated by his presence and aura.

You can’t fault them though considering how he has been the biggest point of difference in Pakistan-India matches in his career and has put Pakistan to the sword over and over again and won countless matches single-handedly.

His over all record if you elave out mickey mouse cricket (T20) is not great.

 

[Pakhs]

Virat is in serious danger of being called an average cricketer apart from one format once his career ends and that is 50 over cricket. Despite his number in T20 cricket we all know his style of batting does not win tournament. Butler, Gayle, pollard, warner, hales are T20 standards not Virat.

Test cricket average below 50 is not considered great under any circumstance.

 

[Mamoon]

Don’t embarrass yourself by putting him in the same bracket as Lara, ponting etc. he’s several levels below of root and smith. Younis has similar if not better away average than Kohli. All them centuries he got in Australia were of no use as his team was well beaten. Even majority Indians agree that he’s not as good as a test bat as he is in limited overs.

I wouldn’t call other people assessment embarrassment considering you said Ashwin is better than Imran that’s the hight of embarrassment.

Don’t give me this average nonsense.

His average of 48 is better than the 50+ averages of most batsmen because he rarely plays on flat wickets.

He plays his home Tests on rank turners and his overall record in Australia, England, South Africa and New Zealand is better than almost every Asian batsman ever.

 

[Cric1234]

Don’t give me this average nonsense.

His average of 48 is better than the 50+ averages of most batsmen because he rarely plays on flat wickets.

He plays his home Tests on rank turners and his overall record in Australia, England, South Africa and New Zealand is better than almost every Asian batsman ever.

Averages In India:

Kohli : 58

Sharma : 69

Pujara : 52

 

[shamaan]

Don’t give me this average nonsense.

His average of 48 is better than the 50+ averages of most batsmen because he rarely plays on flat wickets.

He plays his home Tests on rank turners and his overall record in Australia, England, South Africa and New Zealand is better than almost every Asian batsman ever.

Younis khan averages more in England,New Zealand

 

[Ab Fan]

That's not the question that is being asked is it?

Fact is Kohli has sucked badly as a batsman in the last 3 years in test cricket.

Look at the quality of opposition Kohli has played. He deserves some leeway for that when it comes to overall analysis of his career.

 

[atreus]

even his prime time aka the three-four years till 2019 are a bit overrated, most of the times he was just piling massive runs against knocked out Newzealand , Windies , Lankan and Bangladeshi attacks, the last three are some of the weakest test teams in the world and newzealand is the last team whose bowling attacks can make an impact on indian rank turners.

I think those inflate his stats even in his prime years.

 

[Xoib]

Don’t give me this average nonsense.

His average of 48 is better than the 50+ averages of most batsmen because he rarely plays on flat wickets.

He plays his home Tests on rank turners and his overall record in Australia, England, South Africa and New Zealand is better than almost every Asian batsman ever.

Both Younis and Miandad wipe the floor with him even Inzi is marginally ahead stop looking everything with tiranga coloured glasses

 

[MenInG]

At the time of Virat Kohli's dismissal in the 2nd innings in the 3rd Test, former India coach Ravi Shastri, legendary batter Sunil Gavaskar and star wicketkeeper-batter Dinesh Karthik were at the commentary box.

"Poor shot selection. The ball wasn't bouncing much, the better option would have been if he had targeted mid-on with a straighter bat," Shastri said.

"He does punch the ball very well with the bottom hand and this time he was looking to play it squarer. He missed it completely," Gavaskar said.

"Also, the fact that he didn't take the DRS and just walked out, tells me that he was very aware that probably he was too deep in his crease. He walked up to Pujara, who gave him a grin. I think it felt out to him," Karthik commented.

"It would have been the umpire's call. Normally an umpire would give this out just on the shot played," Shastri added.

NDTV

 

[daytrader]

Those 50+ avg years are dying down. Hoping he can turn it around this year