You need to read some history. Read up about ottomans brutality. You sound like a brutish colonizing sympathizer. You sound like Douglas murray
-
Contact the PP Team
[VIDEOS] Tariq Jamil blames immoral behaviour for current Covid-19 crisis during Ehsaas Telethon
- Thread starter MenInG
- Start date
You need to read some history. Read up about ottomans brutality. You sound like a brutish colonizing sympathizer. You sound like Douglas murray
sweep_shot
Test Captain
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Runs
- 47,086
You are accusing me of ignoring the so called Ottoman brutality. But, at the same time, you are also ignoring European brutality.
I feel that Europeans did far worse crimes.
Last edited:
I have multiple times in this thread said I am against all colonization . Especially the European colonization .And I will say it again I am against all colonization. Especially European colonization and especially British colonization. Now. What about the ottomans ???
sweep_shot
Test Captain
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Runs
- 47,086
I already answered you. I don't condemn Ottoman Empire because every state makes some mistakes. Purpose of Ottoman Empire was benevolent and not about stealing resources.
If colonization takes place for stealing resources and robbing locals (like Europeans did), I condemn that.
You need to read history . Good night
Sorry forgot to add. Read Armenian genocide . Good night Douglas murray.
KingKhanWC
World Star
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2010
- Runs
- 50,454
Where did you get your morals from Charles Darwin?
No country on the planet has a majority athiest population. People who believe in God can also be secular.
I dont think you have a scooby doo.
I'm still waiting for people to answer KKWC's question.
People who think "my morals" is a suitable answer to this debate need to get off the speaker stool, that's year 7 RE lesson standard.
Where's all the innate v environment discussions?
Are morals and ethics genetic? Instinctual? Or are they learned?
What is good and what is bad? Why?
Who decides?
Nadeemp, you're the one who needs to pick up a book. Citing scandinavian countries as an example is like comparing Iceland's Covid 19 response to the UK's. Irrelevance.
People who think "my morals" is a suitable answer to this debate need to get off the speaker stool, that's year 7 RE lesson standard.
Where's all the innate v environment discussions?
Are morals and ethics genetic? Instinctual? Or are they learned?
What is good and what is bad? Why?
Who decides?
Nadeemp, you're the one who needs to pick up a book. Citing scandinavian countries as an example is like comparing Iceland's Covid 19 response to the UK's. Irrelevance.
Why would I get my morals from Charles Darwin? Please explain. Has anyone gotten their morals from darwin? I certainly did not get my moral from the Quran. Have read that as an adult . If I type further on that I might get banned. So will leave that. I really don’t care who is atheist or not. It’s a personal and private thing. However many in many countries people say target are culturally christian. If you ask them if they actually believe in it they will say no. And in that sense some countries would have a atheist majority.
Morals can be learned. But religious people don’t Have monopoly on that. And We can all be thankful for that.
I believe the question was asked what countries In europe. So I cited two. Iceland and Norway.
Libraries are full of books on how benevolent the Europeans were during colonization and how they turned savages into gentlemen or brought Christ to infidel life ....... and so on and so on. My point was nobody has a right over the other. Be it European colonizers or arab or ottoman ( whom u love so much)
Was the Armenian genocide a Nobel cause ?
Last edited:
sweep_shot
Test Captain
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Runs
- 47,086
There are many good things that happened under Ottomans. One mistake doesn't mean much.
Besides, I believe Armenian genocide might have been blown out of proportion.
Last edited:
You are saying exact same things an European colonization apologist says
KingKhanWC
World Star
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2010
- Runs
- 50,454
This is where athiests fall apart. They are quick to question religious people or criticise their views/morals on life but are clueless themselves what they believe. Most just go with the flow, whatever takes their fancy and then justify it.
Just answer the question. Where did you learn them from and why did you accept them as being morals which you should follow?
My detailed answer has been deleted. What comes at 5:23 surrah?
KingKhanWC
World Star
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2010
- Runs
- 50,454
Try another answer which conforms to the house rules, surely cant be so diffiult?
This isnt a thread on the commentary of the Quran, lets not try the classic divert because you're struggling.
Go ahead, where did you learn your morals and why did you accept them?
My dad is an atheist also. I guess I learned from watching him or reading books. Must have learned some living in a muslim society when a kid. Reject most of them now. As I find them to be inferior. There have been countless books written on this subject . I don’t need a god telling me what is right or wrong. Also I will take doing the right thing because it right over doing the thing because of fear of god. They are not even comparable . And those two Vastly different societies are the living proof of that. In your moral 4 point message you paraphrased the Quran about who kills one kills humanity. Why. Don’t u state what the next verse says. That’s my answer. That’s why I don’t take my morals from any religious books.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2004
- Runs
- 217,977
Renowned religious scholar Maulana Tariq Jameel has sustained injuries after he fell due to low blood pressure at his residence.
In a Twitter post, the scholar said that he is feeling better and expressed gratitude to his supporters for their prayers.
He wrote that the scholar got a minor injury but he bled profusely due to which his condition deteriorated.
Bashir said he spoke to the scholar on the phone as well, adding that due to people's prayers Maulana Jamil is now better
In a Twitter post, the scholar said that he is feeling better and expressed gratitude to his supporters for their prayers.
He wrote that the scholar got a minor injury but he bled profusely due to which his condition deteriorated.
Bashir said he spoke to the scholar on the phone as well, adding that due to people's prayers Maulana Jamil is now better
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2004
- Runs
- 217,977
Khyber Pakhtunkhwa [Pakistan], May 1 (ANI): A Pakistani cleric, who had delivered a 'provocative' speech against women education, has been granted bail in Nowshera district in the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province.
After his release on Thursday, Mufti Sardar Ali Haqqani led a procession of hundreds of students and reached his madrassa in Wazirabad in Nowshera Kalaan, The News International reported.
District Police Officer Muhammad Iqbal said that Mufti Sardar Ali Haqqani had delivered a 'provocative' speech against women education and their employment in various departments, including doctors, nurses and others.
He said the cleric was arrested after a case registered against him following the video of his controversial speech went viral on social media.
The accused was produced in the court of Judicial Magistrate Sanam Khalid, who admitted his mistake of using derogatory words of the girls acquiring contemporary education and subsequently doing jobs in various institutions. The court granted bail to the cleric on two surety bonds.
Last year, Pakistan's well-known cleric Maulana Tariq Jameel passed an inflammatory remark against women in the presence of Prime Minister Imran Khan on live television, claiming that COVID-19 has been unleashed on humanity because of the 'wrongdoing of women.'
The Prime Minister did not stop him or question him for making such statements.
Jameel also condemned the media for disseminating lies but later apologised for that remarks. No such apology was made for his offensive remarks on women. Human rights groups had chided the maulana for "inexplicably" correlating women's 'modesty' to the COVID-19 pandemic.
It is not just Pakistani clerics, Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan himself have also been accused of passing controversial remarks on sensitive topics.
Recently, Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan made a comment that caused the protests in the country. In April, he has blamed "fahashi" (vulgarity) for rising in rape and sexual violence instead of the deteriorating law and order situation in the country.
Khan said when he went to the UK, during the '70s to play cricket, the "sex, drugs and rock n roll" culture was taking off. He said nowadays, divorce rates "have gone up by as much as 70 per cent due to vulgarity in that society". He said the whole concept of pardah (or covering up, or modesty) in Islam has a purpose to it which is to "keep temptation in check".
His remarks sparked outrage in the country where women are subjugated and deprived of basic rights like educations.
Several human right activists and opposition lawmakers asked Imran Khan to apologise for the remarks.
Last month, US State Department issued a report on human rights conditions in Pakistan.
A prominent feature of the rights report is the plight of women in Pakistan.
The US State Department underlined a wide array of reasons for the plummeting women's rights in Pakistan and the increase in female marginalization in the country. The report said that the reasons include bureaucratic corruption, a dearth of accountability and investigation, especially when it comes to violence against women, reported Pakistan Today.
The report also highlighted human trafficking as a crime that directly impacted women in the country. (ANI)
https://in.news.yahoo.com/pak-cleric-booked-provocative-speech-000641047.html
After his release on Thursday, Mufti Sardar Ali Haqqani led a procession of hundreds of students and reached his madrassa in Wazirabad in Nowshera Kalaan, The News International reported.
District Police Officer Muhammad Iqbal said that Mufti Sardar Ali Haqqani had delivered a 'provocative' speech against women education and their employment in various departments, including doctors, nurses and others.
He said the cleric was arrested after a case registered against him following the video of his controversial speech went viral on social media.
The accused was produced in the court of Judicial Magistrate Sanam Khalid, who admitted his mistake of using derogatory words of the girls acquiring contemporary education and subsequently doing jobs in various institutions. The court granted bail to the cleric on two surety bonds.
Last year, Pakistan's well-known cleric Maulana Tariq Jameel passed an inflammatory remark against women in the presence of Prime Minister Imran Khan on live television, claiming that COVID-19 has been unleashed on humanity because of the 'wrongdoing of women.'
The Prime Minister did not stop him or question him for making such statements.
Jameel also condemned the media for disseminating lies but later apologised for that remarks. No such apology was made for his offensive remarks on women. Human rights groups had chided the maulana for "inexplicably" correlating women's 'modesty' to the COVID-19 pandemic.
It is not just Pakistani clerics, Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan himself have also been accused of passing controversial remarks on sensitive topics.
Recently, Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan made a comment that caused the protests in the country. In April, he has blamed "fahashi" (vulgarity) for rising in rape and sexual violence instead of the deteriorating law and order situation in the country.
Khan said when he went to the UK, during the '70s to play cricket, the "sex, drugs and rock n roll" culture was taking off. He said nowadays, divorce rates "have gone up by as much as 70 per cent due to vulgarity in that society". He said the whole concept of pardah (or covering up, or modesty) in Islam has a purpose to it which is to "keep temptation in check".
His remarks sparked outrage in the country where women are subjugated and deprived of basic rights like educations.
Several human right activists and opposition lawmakers asked Imran Khan to apologise for the remarks.
Last month, US State Department issued a report on human rights conditions in Pakistan.
A prominent feature of the rights report is the plight of women in Pakistan.
The US State Department underlined a wide array of reasons for the plummeting women's rights in Pakistan and the increase in female marginalization in the country. The report said that the reasons include bureaucratic corruption, a dearth of accountability and investigation, especially when it comes to violence against women, reported Pakistan Today.
The report also highlighted human trafficking as a crime that directly impacted women in the country. (ANI)
https://in.news.yahoo.com/pak-cleric-booked-provocative-speech-000641047.html
Oh wow, so much genocide and colonialism denial in this thread when Muslims were the perpetrators- interesting, that.
And the terrible arguments about atheists not having any morality, how laughable. There are plenty of atheist philosophers who believe in objective morality. There is the evolutionary argument, that morality stems from egoism, or that there are moral axioms which are intuitive and knowable, which is what Sidgwick advocated for (he called himself a theist, which almost everyone did in the 19th century, but he did not belong to any organised religion, so his morality was independent of a god). There are many, many secular ethical systems, such as humanism (and more recently, sentientism). The golden rule didn't originate in theistic morality, either. It is laughable that one suggests that you need to follow a supposedly divine holy scripture to act morally.
And the terrible arguments about atheists not having any morality, how laughable. There are plenty of atheist philosophers who believe in objective morality. There is the evolutionary argument, that morality stems from egoism, or that there are moral axioms which are intuitive and knowable, which is what Sidgwick advocated for (he called himself a theist, which almost everyone did in the 19th century, but he did not belong to any organised religion, so his morality was independent of a god). There are many, many secular ethical systems, such as humanism (and more recently, sentientism). The golden rule didn't originate in theistic morality, either. It is laughable that one suggests that you need to follow a supposedly divine holy scripture to act morally.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2004
- Runs
- 217,977
‘Awww,’ tweeted a liberal commentator in response to a news item that Maulana Tariq Jamil launched his flagship fashion line store in Karachi. “When you earn money by selling religion and build a business empire!” There was plenty of liberal scorn heaped on Maulana Tariq Jamil going about his business by, you know, starting a business. Why so much hate for a religious man who has consistently sought to heal the country’s sectarian divisions versus fuel them? That’s because Maulana Tariq Jamil finds himself at the centre of a cultural and political battle for Pakistan’s soul between the right and left.
First, let’s try to understand why Maulana Tariq Jamil started this business, in his own words. “I would pray to God to create a scenario where we didn’t just have to rely on zakat from people,” he shared. “My madressah never had an administration asking for charity. It was always me getting in touch with people I know, who would then contribute whatever they liked. However, after the pandemic I realised that everyone had been affected and I said to myself I cannot ask anyone for any more aid. I then wondered ‘how will the system work now?’” he said, revealing how the idea came into being.
Bottom line, the intent of Maulana Tariq Jamil’s business is to do the exact opposite of the liberal insinuation or critique that he’s commercialising religion. “In the Subcontinent, ulema involved in businesses are looked down upon and criticised, though I don’t know where this is coming from,” the religious scholar shared, citing the example of Imam Abu Hanifa who was a huge trader and cloth merchant of his time. “In our era, a maulvi is only looked upon as a beggar. Someone who begs in front of people,” he said, pre-empting the criticism he would receive.
What’s the worst that can happen if religious scholars get into the business of fashion? Moderation and bad fashion, I guess. This should be welcomed by our liberal elite instead of being criticised. Pakistan has a genuine right-wing, religious extremism problem. Where Covid couldn’t lock down our cities, the TLP could. But if you start painting all religious scholars with the same broad brush, including scholars enlightened enough to open their own fashion lines, you’re likely to leave religious leadership to those with extreme views.
This isn’t an isolated incident. This government faced intense liberal criticism on the introduction of the Single National Curriculum in schools. Liberals argued this would convert our schools into madrasahs. The truth was the exact opposite: all madrasah students would now receive standard, ‘worldly’ education, including science. This is a historic leap forward for our marginalised madrasah students but was instead painted as a downgrade for what’s taught in mainstream schools. The truth is that the Single National Curriculum is a floor, not a ceiling, for what can be taught to school age children.
All of this is a symptom of a larger, stranger Islamophobia within Pakistan’s liberal elite which polarises our public discourse. For example, when Covid began to emerge, there was intense (right and righteous) pressure to shut down mosques immediately. But the same guardians of public health and safety were then seen posting selfies of themselves at private parties. Nothing wrong with going to a party, this is a free country after all, but realise that the right wing has no monopoly on moral hypocrisy in Pakistan. Moral hypocrisy, not cricket or hockey, should be our national sport.
What is beyond me though, what made me angry enough to write this piece is how liberals go on and on about how religious scholars ask their followers to prioritise deen (religion) and de-prioritise dunya (this world) and how this is the primary reason for Pakistan’s problems. Now we have a religious scholar who is literally fusing deen with dunya, and you’re taking pot shots at him too. Will anything ever satisfy our liberal chattering classes? Sometimes our liberal friends should learn to live and let live. I believe more religious scholars stepping up into the mainstream — doing business and gaudy fashion — is a pathway for Pakistan to become a far more moderate and tolerant society.
Published in The Express Tribune, May 2nd, 2021.
First, let’s try to understand why Maulana Tariq Jamil started this business, in his own words. “I would pray to God to create a scenario where we didn’t just have to rely on zakat from people,” he shared. “My madressah never had an administration asking for charity. It was always me getting in touch with people I know, who would then contribute whatever they liked. However, after the pandemic I realised that everyone had been affected and I said to myself I cannot ask anyone for any more aid. I then wondered ‘how will the system work now?’” he said, revealing how the idea came into being.
Bottom line, the intent of Maulana Tariq Jamil’s business is to do the exact opposite of the liberal insinuation or critique that he’s commercialising religion. “In the Subcontinent, ulema involved in businesses are looked down upon and criticised, though I don’t know where this is coming from,” the religious scholar shared, citing the example of Imam Abu Hanifa who was a huge trader and cloth merchant of his time. “In our era, a maulvi is only looked upon as a beggar. Someone who begs in front of people,” he said, pre-empting the criticism he would receive.
What’s the worst that can happen if religious scholars get into the business of fashion? Moderation and bad fashion, I guess. This should be welcomed by our liberal elite instead of being criticised. Pakistan has a genuine right-wing, religious extremism problem. Where Covid couldn’t lock down our cities, the TLP could. But if you start painting all religious scholars with the same broad brush, including scholars enlightened enough to open their own fashion lines, you’re likely to leave religious leadership to those with extreme views.
This isn’t an isolated incident. This government faced intense liberal criticism on the introduction of the Single National Curriculum in schools. Liberals argued this would convert our schools into madrasahs. The truth was the exact opposite: all madrasah students would now receive standard, ‘worldly’ education, including science. This is a historic leap forward for our marginalised madrasah students but was instead painted as a downgrade for what’s taught in mainstream schools. The truth is that the Single National Curriculum is a floor, not a ceiling, for what can be taught to school age children.
All of this is a symptom of a larger, stranger Islamophobia within Pakistan’s liberal elite which polarises our public discourse. For example, when Covid began to emerge, there was intense (right and righteous) pressure to shut down mosques immediately. But the same guardians of public health and safety were then seen posting selfies of themselves at private parties. Nothing wrong with going to a party, this is a free country after all, but realise that the right wing has no monopoly on moral hypocrisy in Pakistan. Moral hypocrisy, not cricket or hockey, should be our national sport.
What is beyond me though, what made me angry enough to write this piece is how liberals go on and on about how religious scholars ask their followers to prioritise deen (religion) and de-prioritise dunya (this world) and how this is the primary reason for Pakistan’s problems. Now we have a religious scholar who is literally fusing deen with dunya, and you’re taking pot shots at him too. Will anything ever satisfy our liberal chattering classes? Sometimes our liberal friends should learn to live and let live. I believe more religious scholars stepping up into the mainstream — doing business and gaudy fashion — is a pathway for Pakistan to become a far more moderate and tolerant society.
Published in The Express Tribune, May 2nd, 2021.
Mamoon
ATG
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2012
- Runs
- 106,481
- Post of the Week
- 12
Millions of rupees were spent on the grand and lavish inauguration of his clothing brand with fancy lights, chandeliers, flowers and other decoration.
After taking selfies with namehram women and hanging out with “fahash” celebrities for publicity, Maulana has now launched his clothing brand.
This is the same Maulana that gives lectures on simplicity and piety.
The Prophet PBUH explicitly warned against the emergence of “Maulanas” like him.
After taking selfies with namehram women and hanging out with “fahash” celebrities for publicity, Maulana has now launched his clothing brand.
This is the same Maulana that gives lectures on simplicity and piety.
The Prophet PBUH explicitly warned against the emergence of “Maulanas” like him.
Mamoon
ATG
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2012
- Runs
- 106,481
- Post of the Week
- 12
SOPs were violated in the inauguration. People were not wearing masks and there was no social distancing.
According to MTJ school of medical research, The immoral behavior of our awaam is responsible for the spread of COVID but not a lavish opening ceremony for his clothing brand.
According to MTJ school of medical research, The immoral behavior of our awaam is responsible for the spread of COVID but not a lavish opening ceremony for his clothing brand.
Gharib Aadmi
First Class Star
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2018
- Runs
- 4,199
Alot of these liberal on this forum. Imran Khan was completely right about the liberals of Pakistan.
Bigboii
First Class Star
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2020
- Runs
- 3,813
- Post of the Week
- 1
Imagine even a guy like him is controversial on this forum...
Wow!...
People like him are the pathway to saner conservatism in Pakistan unless y'all are fine with TLP representing the conservative values of Pak society...
Cause either way conservatives need a voice, and they will find it one way or another...
Wow!...
People like him are the pathway to saner conservatism in Pakistan unless y'all are fine with TLP representing the conservative values of Pak society...
Cause either way conservatives need a voice, and they will find it one way or another...
ishtiaq_ctg
Tape Ball Star
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2018
- Runs
- 936
Tariq Jameel is a fraud who sells false stories in the name of Prophets for his own gain. These people are nothing but burdens for the society.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2004
- Runs
- 217,977
Renowned cleric Maulana Tariq Jameel could be seen praising Bollywood actor Salman Khan in a recent viral video. In a recent clip, MTJ addressed Salman's father, playwright Salim Khan, and extended warm Eid wishes to the popular showbiz family.
"Salim Khan, you are very lucky to have such an obedient son as Salman Khan," MTJ shared. He continued, "He's such a huge celebrity yet he serves you as a servant."
MTJ went on to add how Pakistani cricketer Shoaib Akhter told him two qualities of the Bollywood star, after which he has become a fan of Salman. "First thing Shoaib told me was how obedient Salman is as a son. Salman doesn't hesitate when you ask him [Salman] to do something. This is a certain way to paradise. One who pleases his parents would be rewarded immensely. You are an outstanding Muslim."
"The second thing he told me about Salman was how generous he is," MTJ added. "The Almighty is fond of people who have a gracious heart even if they aren't as devout as others. Even if you offer just one Eid namaz, I can vouch that you Allah loves you."
MTJ went on to add how anyone who prays five times a day, offers nafil, fasts thoroughly and is stingy isn't beloved of Allah. "Your generosity and obedience to your parents have made me your fan," MTJ shared.
Express Tribune
"Salim Khan, you are very lucky to have such an obedient son as Salman Khan," MTJ shared. He continued, "He's such a huge celebrity yet he serves you as a servant."
MTJ went on to add how Pakistani cricketer Shoaib Akhter told him two qualities of the Bollywood star, after which he has become a fan of Salman. "First thing Shoaib told me was how obedient Salman is as a son. Salman doesn't hesitate when you ask him [Salman] to do something. This is a certain way to paradise. One who pleases his parents would be rewarded immensely. You are an outstanding Muslim."
"The second thing he told me about Salman was how generous he is," MTJ added. "The Almighty is fond of people who have a gracious heart even if they aren't as devout as others. Even if you offer just one Eid namaz, I can vouch that you Allah loves you."
MTJ went on to add how anyone who prays five times a day, offers nafil, fasts thoroughly and is stingy isn't beloved of Allah. "Your generosity and obedience to your parents have made me your fan," MTJ shared.
Express Tribune
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2004
- Runs
- 217,977
After launching a clothing brand, Maulana Tariq Jameel has now started a humanitarian venture and started an ambulance service.
The announcement was made by the Maulana Tariq Jameel (MTJ) Foundation, a non-governmental organisation, on its Instagram page. In the post, the foundation thanked all the donors whose generous contributions enabled it to launch the initiative.
"Molana Tariq Jamil visiting the newly-bought ambulances by MTJ Foundation. We are thankful to all the contributors who enabled us to buy the ambulances to provide the service in times of need to the needy," the caption of the post read.
It should be recalled that prior to launching the ambulance service, Maulana Tariq Jameel had launched a clothing brand for women.
Maulana Tariq Jameel clarified in a statement that the purpose of his business was to run madressahs so that they are not dependent on Zakat.
GEO
The announcement was made by the Maulana Tariq Jameel (MTJ) Foundation, a non-governmental organisation, on its Instagram page. In the post, the foundation thanked all the donors whose generous contributions enabled it to launch the initiative.
"Molana Tariq Jamil visiting the newly-bought ambulances by MTJ Foundation. We are thankful to all the contributors who enabled us to buy the ambulances to provide the service in times of need to the needy," the caption of the post read.
It should be recalled that prior to launching the ambulance service, Maulana Tariq Jameel had launched a clothing brand for women.
Maulana Tariq Jameel clarified in a statement that the purpose of his business was to run madressahs so that they are not dependent on Zakat.
GEO
The level of absurdity in this thread is amazing...
I learned that....
1. Simply having a religious take and perspective on world events is now morally unacceptable. It is now considered bigotry.
2. If an Islamic scholar simply points out the “sins” being committed then it is also considered bigotry. Now the sinner can simply invoke “human rights” and claim molvi sb is discriminating against him/her. Meanwhile continuous unapologetic bashing of the same molvis is ok.
3. Anyone and infact whole nation can leisurely bash lies of journalism but a molvi sb is not allowed to do so. I guess that is because many subconsciously believe molvis to be brain washed illeterate sub humans to whom basic decency cannot be extended.
4. A scholar criticizing women for their sins is a bigot and woman-hater while conveniently forgetting that most of the time he talks about sins of men. Where are anti-man apology demands?
5. Molvis are bad because they don’t earn their living and they are bad as well when they try to earn living through business.
6. There are many other takes as well but I guess that essence is religious morality cannot be even talked about in public sphere. Even by guys who are molvis who actually believe in that religion. They also SHOULD follow whatever non religious state sanctioned strand of morality that might be going around.
7. Just believing that my religion is the only true religion is also bigotry now. Many are very touchy about Islam claiming to be Haq and rest batil.
7. In effect, claiming and promoting religious morality in public platforms makes you treasonous bigot , while having such beliefs privately is closet bigotry. Only one option is available it seems, denounce it completely.
I learned that....
1. Simply having a religious take and perspective on world events is now morally unacceptable. It is now considered bigotry.
2. If an Islamic scholar simply points out the “sins” being committed then it is also considered bigotry. Now the sinner can simply invoke “human rights” and claim molvi sb is discriminating against him/her. Meanwhile continuous unapologetic bashing of the same molvis is ok.
3. Anyone and infact whole nation can leisurely bash lies of journalism but a molvi sb is not allowed to do so. I guess that is because many subconsciously believe molvis to be brain washed illeterate sub humans to whom basic decency cannot be extended.
4. A scholar criticizing women for their sins is a bigot and woman-hater while conveniently forgetting that most of the time he talks about sins of men. Where are anti-man apology demands?
5. Molvis are bad because they don’t earn their living and they are bad as well when they try to earn living through business.
6. There are many other takes as well but I guess that essence is religious morality cannot be even talked about in public sphere. Even by guys who are molvis who actually believe in that religion. They also SHOULD follow whatever non religious state sanctioned strand of morality that might be going around.
7. Just believing that my religion is the only true religion is also bigotry now. Many are very touchy about Islam claiming to be Haq and rest batil.
7. In effect, claiming and promoting religious morality in public platforms makes you treasonous bigot , while having such beliefs privately is closet bigotry. Only one option is available it seems, denounce it completely.
Last edited:
PetroDollars
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Feb 29, 2012
- Runs
- 4,578
Firstly hes not a scholar and has never himself claimed to be, so i dont know where you got that from.
Secondly, MTJ is a dangerous fella, not because of his views on this subject or that subject but because he has made heaven or janaat as his brand to fame, he has gone on to influence every suicide bomber in this country to attack its own army, through his afterlife portrayal and he supported TTP, Hes so terrible even zaid hamid speaks against him.
1. He is a bonafide scholar with well k own academic pedigree in Arabic literature and poetry as well as Dawah Wal Irshaad apart from general “fazil” degree.
2. He does not overly focus on hoors or jannat etc. though it has been probably a long time since I last listened to him. And even when he discusses them he quotes Quran etc. Read Surah Al Rehman, we had a joke in school that teenagers become more devout after reading its translation....
3. He is one of the most vocal critics of TTP. Honestly, when I read claims like this I really struggle to motivate myself to reply. Probably you have no experience and exposure to either TTP’s literature or narratives and history of Tableeghi Jamat. TTP specifically name him as one of their top adversaries in their literature. He has been vocal against them. Not only that, TJ has been against jihadis since 1980s and Zia era when west and Pak were all for jihad. TJ’s central committee or markazi shura’s disdain for Jihadi organizations even during zia period is so well known and documented. But honestly who cares to know history and narratives by either reading it directly observing organizations and their structure
4. Seriously Zaid Hamid?? No comment...
5. It is not TJ that blames disasters etc on women. They blame it on both men and women because this moral arc is not a figment of their own imagination but based on explicit verses or Quran. If you have problem with the view that mankind’s actions can be responsible for disasters etc then don’t blame TJ, blame Islam.
6. I agree on this point that TJ and religious scholars in general need to focus more on social ills of domestic abuse, pedophilia, acid throwing, share of women in inheritance etc etc.... believe me they address it at some level but sure the need to be more forceful as some quarters are happily making propaganda of showing them to be complicit in all traditional social ills that we unfortunately have in our society.
Last edited:
See points 5 and 6 above
PetroDollars
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Feb 29, 2012
- Runs
- 4,578
1. He is a bonafide scholar with well k own academic pedigree in Arabic literature and poetry as well as Dawah Wal Irshaad apart from general “fazil” degree.
2. He does not overly focus on hoors or jannat etc. though it has been probably a long time since I last listened to him. And even when he discusses them he quotes Quran etc. Read Surah Al Rehman, we had a joke in school that teenagers become more devout after reading its translation....
3. He is one of the most vocal critics of TTP. Honestly, when I read claims like this I really struggle to motivate myself to reply. Probably you have no experience and exposure to either TTP’s literature or narratives and history of Tableeghi Jamat. TTP specifically name him as one of their top adversaries in their literature. He has been vocal against them. Not only that, TJ has been against jihadis since 1980s and Zia era when west and Pak were all for jihad. TJ’s central committee or markazi shura’s disdain for Jihadi organizations even during zia period is so well known and documented. But honestly who cares to know history and narratives by either reading it directly observing organizations and their structure
4. Seriously Zaid Hamid?? No comment...
5. It is not TJ that blames disasters etc on women. They blame it on both men and women because this moral arc is not a figment of their own imagination but based on explicit verses or Quran. If you have problem with the view that mankind’s actions can be responsible for disasters etc then don’t blame TJ, blame Islam.
6. I agree on this point that TJ and religious scholars in general need to focus more on social ills of domestic abuse, pedophilia, acid throwing, share of women in inheritance etc etc.... believe me they address it at some level but sure the need to be more forceful as some quarters are happily making propaganda of showing them to be complicit in all traditional social ills that we unfortunately have in our society.
From what i have heard in tableegi jamaat, he is not scholar and doesnt claim to be, maybe some of his followers do, im not to sure about his degrees either.
as for TTP, during there peak, no he never spoke out against them, NEVER.
Convicted members of TTP as per reports of the paksitani army claim, he is there main motivator.
Also it doesnt matter what he quotes, the main thing is, he influences terroism, what kim kardashian does to young girls fashion, TJ does the same for terroism, he is the biggest influence TTP have.
Clearly you need better sources. He is “fazil” of Raiwind and also heads some other degree awarding institutions inside and outside of Wafaq’s framework. Quite well known facts in TJ circles. Just ask anyone in your local masjid if you have them there.
Cite me a reference where leave alone TTP any kind of jihadi mentions him as inspiration for terrorism. He is a well known inspiration for millions of people to take deen and Islam seriously, if you conflate it with inspiration for terrorism then sorry I cannot continue this dialogue further.
Really plz refer any Pakistan army investigation reports that mentions him.
PetroDollars
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Feb 29, 2012
- Runs
- 4,578
Like i said, it was only from tableghi members, who consider him a preacher and not a scholar, because every time you debate them and mention how MTJ is a clown, they quickly change the subject to him preaching and not being a scholar.
Masjids in London where i live are not interested in him or even know him, hes only celebrity in pakistan mosques and even those consider him a preacher where ive been and not a scholar.
As for him influencing terroists, these came from military reports back in 2007/8, when TTP members were caught and investigated, belive them if you want but if you love him so much at least dont lie and say he speaks out against TTP.
Now that is plain rude. You are calling me a liar when infact you are just a google search away from facts. Surely you know about Wikipedia and google!!
I told you he is very vocal against TTP based on TTP material that I read. They have published books against him in particular and TJ in general. Also there is academic literature available on TJ’s hostility towards jihadis. Well known facts readily available online. ignorance and laziness are what I attribute towards you, not lies though....
PetroDollars
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Feb 29, 2012
- Runs
- 4,578
Typical hypocrisy, you call me lazy and ignorant and tell me to do google searches when you cant do the same for your own nonsense claims.
King-Misbah
First Class Player
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2017
- Runs
- 2,799
I am not a big fan of Tariq Jameel as he does not called a spade a spade, but he does not vocally support or influence TTP. And maulana Tariq Jameel has a massive following in the UK, I remember Manchester mosques being very busy when he was here.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2004
- Runs
- 217,977
<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 176.667%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/egt6ej" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>
UFC fighting extraordinaire Khabib Nurmagomedov sent his Salam (Islamic greeting) to Pakistan's Maulana Tariq Jamil. He asked about the religious scholar's health and ended the video by stating that he will see him soon.
UFC fighting extraordinaire Khabib Nurmagomedov sent his Salam (Islamic greeting) to Pakistan's Maulana Tariq Jamil. He asked about the religious scholar's health and ended the video by stating that he will see him soon.
transparent opacity
Tape Ball Star
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2019
- Runs
- 940
Maulana Tariq Jameel praying for PM Imran Khan's success
KARACHI: As the Opposition ramps the pressure with the no-confidence motion against Prime Minister Imran Khan, renowned scholar Maulana Tariq Jameel has offered prayers for the premier's success.
PTI’s leader of the Opposition Haleem Adil Sheikh and MPA Saeed Afridi called on Tariq Jameel.
Taking to Twitter, MPA Afridi shared pictures along with the scholar.
“Had the privilege to meet Maulana Tariq Jameel in Karachi today, who prayed for Prime Minister Imran Khan’s success,” he wrote, adding that “scholars like Tariq Jameel are an asset of our country.”
SOURCE: geo.tv
KARACHI: As the Opposition ramps the pressure with the no-confidence motion against Prime Minister Imran Khan, renowned scholar Maulana Tariq Jameel has offered prayers for the premier's success.
PTI’s leader of the Opposition Haleem Adil Sheikh and MPA Saeed Afridi called on Tariq Jameel.
Taking to Twitter, MPA Afridi shared pictures along with the scholar.
“Had the privilege to meet Maulana Tariq Jameel in Karachi today, who prayed for Prime Minister Imran Khan’s success,” he wrote, adding that “scholars like Tariq Jameel are an asset of our country.”
SOURCE: geo.tv
daytrader
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2015
- Runs
- 10,850
- Post of the Week
- 1
Maulana Tariq Jameel pays visit to Gurdwara
Renowned religious scholar visited the Sikh holy site with a delegation
LAHORE:
Renowned religious scholar Maulana Tariq Jameel came under criticism on social media platforms on Sunday, a day after his visit to a Sikh religious site in Kartarpur, the Gurdwara Darbar Sahib.
A delegation of religious scholars also accompanied Maulana Tariq Jameel during the visit to Kartarpur Sahib on Saturday.
They were received by the head granthi of Gurdwara Sahib, Sardar Gobind Singh, Punjab Assembly Member Sardar Ramesh Singh Arora and others.
Maulana Tariq Jameel was also given a briefing regarding Kartarpur. He was told that Baba Guru Nanak, the founder of the Sikh religion had spent the last 18 years of his life and that he taught monotheism instead of idolatry.
He was told that Baba Guru Nanak was a proponent of humanity and brotherhood.
The administration of Gurdwara Sahib gave him gifts, including Saropa and Kirpan.
During his visit, the religious scholar also met and interacted with the Sikh pilgrims, who had come to their holy site.
Speaking on the occasion, Maulana Tariq Jameel said that Islam teaches respect for the rights of minorities and their sanctities.
“Kartarpur is the corridor of peace,” he said. “Minorities in Pakistan enjoy full religious freedom.”
However, the visit drew criticism on social media as the pictures were shared on various platforms.
Express Tribune
Renowned religious scholar visited the Sikh holy site with a delegation
LAHORE:
Renowned religious scholar Maulana Tariq Jameel came under criticism on social media platforms on Sunday, a day after his visit to a Sikh religious site in Kartarpur, the Gurdwara Darbar Sahib.
A delegation of religious scholars also accompanied Maulana Tariq Jameel during the visit to Kartarpur Sahib on Saturday.
They were received by the head granthi of Gurdwara Sahib, Sardar Gobind Singh, Punjab Assembly Member Sardar Ramesh Singh Arora and others.
Maulana Tariq Jameel was also given a briefing regarding Kartarpur. He was told that Baba Guru Nanak, the founder of the Sikh religion had spent the last 18 years of his life and that he taught monotheism instead of idolatry.
He was told that Baba Guru Nanak was a proponent of humanity and brotherhood.
The administration of Gurdwara Sahib gave him gifts, including Saropa and Kirpan.
During his visit, the religious scholar also met and interacted with the Sikh pilgrims, who had come to their holy site.
Speaking on the occasion, Maulana Tariq Jameel said that Islam teaches respect for the rights of minorities and their sanctities.
“Kartarpur is the corridor of peace,” he said. “Minorities in Pakistan enjoy full religious freedom.”
However, the visit drew criticism on social media as the pictures were shared on various platforms.
Express Tribune
SpiritOf1903
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2009
- Runs
- 9,834
Astaghfirullah
Bewal Express
Test Star
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2005
- Runs
- 39,655
Well done TJ for showing that PK is for all. The Quaid envisaged a PK where people are free to go to their places of worship and feel free to practice religion.
SalimBhai
First Class Player
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2022
- Runs
- 2,857
Nice gesture. However this man is a snake. I would watch my back
sweep_shot
Test Captain
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Runs
- 47,086
Why snake?
Bewal Express
Test Star
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2005
- Runs
- 39,655
No he isn't. I don't follow him or any other maulvi but he is a good man. Compare him to the likes of the Munafiqs like TLP, who killed policeman because of France Ambassador in PK and last week Billo and SS met Macron, and nothing. You can spot the Munafiqs out to make money from the moon
SalimBhai
First Class Player
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2022
- Runs
- 2,857
He is out to make money. It’s a business. And the way he describes women in heaven and all. It’s creepy.
Bewal Express
Test Star
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2005
- Runs
- 39,655
No need to listen. Obviously he ain't your cup of tea.
SpiritOf1903
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2009
- Runs
- 9,834
Can't visit shrines of saints but fine to visit a dajjal's
Lonewarrior
First Class Star
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2016
- Runs
- 3,416
btw he also visited the shrine of TLP leader ..... Lol
Justcrazy
ATG
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2010
- Runs
- 109,157
How Quran describes Women in Paradise?
Lonewarrior
First Class Star
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2016
- Runs
- 3,416
you are asking from wrong person, I believe he is an athiest ......
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2004
- Runs
- 217,977
Renowned Islamic scholar Maulana Tariq Jamil — who is currently on a trip to Canada — was moved to a hospital on Tuesday after he suffered a cardiac arrest, according to his son.
Confirming the news in a tweet, Yousaf Jamil said: “Baba jaan is currently in Canada and has been shifted to the hospital due to a heart attack. By the grace of Allah, his condition is much better now.”
DAWN
Confirming the news in a tweet, Yousaf Jamil said: “Baba jaan is currently in Canada and has been shifted to the hospital due to a heart attack. By the grace of Allah, his condition is much better now.”
DAWN
Bewal Express
Test Star
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2005
- Runs
- 39,655
May Allah grant him a fully recovery
sweep_shot
Test Captain
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Runs
- 47,086
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2004
- Runs
- 217,977
Renowned Pakistani religious scholar Maulana Tariq Jamil on Wednesday said that he will be discharged from the hospital after suffering from a heart attack in Canada a day earlier.
"By the grace of Allah and your prayers, my health is much better," Jamil wrote on his Twitter handle.
"By the grace of Allah and your prayers, my health is much better," Jamil wrote on his Twitter handle.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2004
- Runs
- 217,977
Asim Jamil, son of renowned Islamic scholar Maulana Tariq Jamil, passed away in Punjab’s Talamba on Sunday, his family said.
Confirming the news in a post on social media platform X (formerly Twitter), Tariq said the “accidental death” had turned the atmosphere mournful.
“We request you all to remember us in your prayers on this sad occasion. May Allah grant my son a high place in heaven,” he added.
Mian Channu Deputy Superintendent of Police (DSP) Mohammad Saleem told Dawn.com that Asim was taken to Talamba Rural Health Centre, where he was pronounced dead.
The body is being moved to the family’s home from the health centre, he added.
A statement from the Punjab police spokesperson said the cause of death appeared to be a “gunshot”.
Talking to Dawn.com, Multan Regional Police Officer (RPO) Sohail Chaudhry said Asim “shot himself in the chest” in a gymnasium at his home. “According to the family, Asim committed suicide,” the RPO said.
Chaudhry further said the police had acquired CCTV footage that “confirms he can be seen shooting himself in the chest”. “We are sending the footage for forensic analysis,” he added.
Meanwhile, the Punjab police statement said Inspector General of Police (IGP) Dr Usman Anwar took notice of the incident and sought a report from the Multan RPO.
IGP Anwar said the conclusive cause of death should be “determined in the light of evidence and forensic report”.
The police statement added that the Khanewal district police officer and other senior personnel were present on the scene and evidence had been collected.
National Assembly Speaker Raja Pervaiz Ashraf extended his condolences and solidarity to the bereaved family.
DAWN
Confirming the news in a post on social media platform X (formerly Twitter), Tariq said the “accidental death” had turned the atmosphere mournful.
“We request you all to remember us in your prayers on this sad occasion. May Allah grant my son a high place in heaven,” he added.
Mian Channu Deputy Superintendent of Police (DSP) Mohammad Saleem told Dawn.com that Asim was taken to Talamba Rural Health Centre, where he was pronounced dead.
The body is being moved to the family’s home from the health centre, he added.
A statement from the Punjab police spokesperson said the cause of death appeared to be a “gunshot”.
Talking to Dawn.com, Multan Regional Police Officer (RPO) Sohail Chaudhry said Asim “shot himself in the chest” in a gymnasium at his home. “According to the family, Asim committed suicide,” the RPO said.
Chaudhry further said the police had acquired CCTV footage that “confirms he can be seen shooting himself in the chest”. “We are sending the footage for forensic analysis,” he added.
Meanwhile, the Punjab police statement said Inspector General of Police (IGP) Dr Usman Anwar took notice of the incident and sought a report from the Multan RPO.
IGP Anwar said the conclusive cause of death should be “determined in the light of evidence and forensic report”.
The police statement added that the Khanewal district police officer and other senior personnel were present on the scene and evidence had been collected.
National Assembly Speaker Raja Pervaiz Ashraf extended his condolences and solidarity to the bereaved family.
DAWN
Stewie
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2008
- Runs
- 15,780
whoa!
was he mentally unstable, any history of mental health problems? my heart goes out to Molana, he is such a gentle and genuine soul. cant imagine the pain he is going through right now.
Double Trouble
Tape Ball Regular
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2017
- Runs
- 384
Very sad news
Lot of speculation going at the moment so best to wait for police investigation
Lot of speculation going at the moment so best to wait for police investigation
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2004
- Runs
- 217,977
FearlessRoar
T20I Star
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2023
- Runs
- 30,521
Nawaz (PML-N) supremo Nawaz Sharif on Monday expressed grief over the sad demise of Asim Jamil, son of known Islamic scholar Maulana Tariq Jamil.
Taking to X, commonly known as Twitter, the former prime minister offered condolence to Maulana Tariq Jamil’s family. He prayed for the departed soul and for the bereaved family to bear the loss with equanimity.
Earlier, Maulana Yousaf Jamil disclosed the distressing details surrounding the untimely demise of his youngest brother, Asim Jamil.
Yousaf while addressing the public in a video message provided insight into the painful journey of his younger brother.
Asim's battle with depression was no secret, and his family had been actively supporting him in his fight against the debilitating condition, he said.
Yousaf went on to say that in a bid to put an end to his suffering, Asim Jamil took a drastic step, using a firearm obtained from a security guard.
Source: Dunya News
Taking to X, commonly known as Twitter, the former prime minister offered condolence to Maulana Tariq Jamil’s family. He prayed for the departed soul and for the bereaved family to bear the loss with equanimity.
Earlier, Maulana Yousaf Jamil disclosed the distressing details surrounding the untimely demise of his youngest brother, Asim Jamil.
Yousaf while addressing the public in a video message provided insight into the painful journey of his younger brother.
Asim's battle with depression was no secret, and his family had been actively supporting him in his fight against the debilitating condition, he said.
Yousaf went on to say that in a bid to put an end to his suffering, Asim Jamil took a drastic step, using a firearm obtained from a security guard.
Source: Dunya News
Similar threads
