"Virat Kohli close but Joe Root and Kane Williamson are nowhere near Steve Smith" : Ricky Ponting

[Princejain191]

He doesn't score heavily against them. His stats are massively overrated. Failed vs Aus/SA at home and improved his stats with a 200 vs NZ on a dead rubber against average bowlers.

When pitches got flatter, to no surprise he started scoring massively against the likes of Moen, Rashid and Dawson, none of which are world class spinner.

It was now that the real minnow bashing started amassing an avg of 120 and 150 over a total of 4 home matches against Lankans and Bangladesh.

He was only tested first when a good spinner Lyon toured India and was nowhere to be seen in terms of runs. One can only wonder how would he have done against Yasir.

His competitors are Root and Kane not Smith.

You do realize that Virat got out to spin only twice in that Australia series and both were brain fades? The other three dismissals were each against different fast bowlers on straight balls. He just had a bad series Teddy. And SA had a very avg bowling attack with Piedt, Tahir and Harmer as spinners. NZ, Eng and SL had better spinners.

 

[Anuj25]

Now this is a new thing I have heard. You should atleast think before saying. Indians fans and their worshipping level for their idols is unbelievable.

Remember when England toured India with an attack of Moen and Rashid and Kohli was bashing them day and night.

What if someone else say England vs India in India= SL vs Aus in Aus? The hypocrisy level is there to be seen.

Lol read again what I said.
Aussies feed on the English bowlers playing at home.. The results are the current ashes being played.
Anyways enjoy the game

 

[Sadevdesai]

He is probably correct. Kohli has a chance to catch up with Smith in SA. It will be a real head knocker in SA !!!!

 

[rudra]

It will be very tough for VK to eclipse smith in SA since both are lined to tour there next.
But if vk has great tour and smith has underpar then gap cap become really close to the matter of just personal opinions of people.
Right now smith is unanimous no 1.

 

[Hadephobia]

Smith is the equal of Bradman no other player is close.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

How the hell can Kohli close the gap with just one series? Smith has been dropping game winning tons left, right and centre. Kohli fans need to stop being desperate. Contrary to what's being suggested here, Smith has only widened the gap despite Kohli's improvement. He's completely separated himself from the rest.

Kohli will have to go on a tear to catch up with him.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

You do realize that Virat got out to spin only twice in that Australia series and both were brain fades? The other three dismissals were each against different fast bowlers on straight balls. He just had a bad series Teddy. And SA had a very avg bowling attack with Piedt, Tahir and Harmer as spinners. NZ, Eng and SL had better spinners.

To paint SA home series as an aberration because they had average bowlers in landmine conditions is disingenuous mate.

Kohli on rank turners/heavy turners has been poor (except Adelaide 4th innings and Mumbai 2016).

When we really needed runs in tough spin conditions, it was Pujara, Vijay and Rahul who stepped up. Not Kohli.

Kohli is our best bat no doubt but he has a lot of soft runs in Asia.

 

[WengerOut]

To paint SA home series as an aberration because they had average bowlers in landmine conditions is disingenuous mate.

Kohli on rank turners/heavy turners has been poor (except Adelaide 4th innings and Mumbai 2016).

When we really needed runs in tough spin conditions, it was Pujara, Vijay and Rahul who stepped up. Not Kohli.

Kohli is our best bat no doubt but he has a lot of soft runs in Asia.

You forgot Vizag test second innings against England. Why only he scores soft runs ? What has Smith done on turners apart from Pune ( which i dont rate very much but for the sake of argument). And if you can give me the number of innings of Pujara on turners ( which you say is light years ahead of the 3 by Kohli ) , it would be better. BTW , i dont believe you just dismissed 3 innings like that.

 

[Princejain191]

To paint SA home series as an aberration because they had average bowlers in landmine conditions is disingenuous mate.

Kohli on rank turners/heavy turners has been poor (except Adelaide 4th innings and Mumbai 2016).

When we really needed runs in tough spin conditions, it was Pujara, Vijay and Rahul who stepped up. Not Kohli.

Kohli is our best bat no doubt but he has a lot of soft runs in Asia.

Agreed. But so has Smith in almost every home season in the last 4 years. The only time conditions have been remotely challenging for Australian batsmen in Australia in last 4 years was against SA and Smith was average then. So that is why the argument for Kohli at home falls flat for me. He has probably played more tougher innings (Kolkata'16 vs NZ, Vizag'16 vs England, Mumbai'16 vs England, Kolkata'17 vs SL) at home than Smith and has also failed more too, cos simply India on average has played on tougher wickets .

 

[WengerOut]

Smith in 2015 Ashes scored 2 huge centuries on the flat wickets but went missing when it swung. But nobody cares about that. Pujara went missing when pitch pacy and seaming in Joburg but made hay in the second innings. Then he went missing for the whole overseas tour of NZ , AUS and ENG. But no , soft runs are for Kohli only.

 

[Savage]

Smith in 2015 Ashes scored 2 huge centuries on the flat wickets but went missing when it swung. But nobody cares about that. Pujara went missing when pitch pacy and seaming in Joburg but made hay in the second innings. Then he went missing for the whole overseas tour of NZ , AUS and ENG. But no , soft runs are for Kohli only.

Understand your point but the problem is smith Outclassed kohli and Williamson(kind of embarrassingly) when he toured india and NZ.Even in England he somehow managed to score more runs than Root(which was root's greatest series performance by some distance).

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Agreed. But so has Smith in almost every home season in the last 4 years. The only time conditions have been remotely challenging for Australian batsmen in Australia in last 4 years was against SA and Smith was average then. So that is why the argument for Kohli at home falls flat for me. He has probably played more tougher innings (Kolkata'16 vs NZ, Vizag'16 vs England, Mumbai'16 vs England, Kolkata'17 vs SL) at home than Smith and has also failed more too, cos simply India on average has played on tougher wickets .

Yeah but Smith still averaged 42 in that series. He did very well in SA in his previous tour.

When Kohli faces tough conditions, he averages in teens (SA home series before last test, Australia home series, England away series). Even in NZ, Kohli was largely un-impactful except for the century in the 4th innings where we had to save the test batting 2 sessions out and even there, his clear nick was given not out.

I am aware my post might seem anti Kohli but that's not the case. It's just that while Smith has FTBed a lot, he has also scored runs in tough conditions. Kohli on the other hand has flopped in 90% of the tough conditions in Asia and away, flopped in England and NZ for most part (ok NZ low sample size). Post 2016, he has been more consistent and who knows, it may just be a matter of time before he starts piling on runs on real turners.

Scoring 4 centuries against Aus in Aus facing Rhyno, Johnson, Starc and Lyon is no mean feat so he does have it in him to real take on tough bowling.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Smith in 2015 Ashes scored 2 huge centuries on the flat wickets but went missing when it swung. But nobody cares about that. Pujara went missing when pitch pacy and seaming in Joburg but made hay in the second innings. Then he went missing for the whole overseas tour of NZ , AUS and ENG. But no , soft runs are for Kohli only.

He was terribly bashed for scoring soft runs in that Ashes.

Like crazily.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

You forgot Vizag test second innings against England. Why only he scores soft runs ? What has Smith done on turners apart from Pune ( which i dont rate very much but for the sake of argument). And if you can give me the number of innings of Pujara on turners ( which you say is light years ahead of the 3 by Kohli ) , it would be better. BTW , i dont believe you just dismissed 3 innings like that.

Pujara innings on turner:

Mumbai 2012 facing Swann and Panesar
Chennai 2013 rank turner
Hyderabad 2013 serious turner
Delhi 2013 rank turner chasing 150 and scoring 85 at 80 SR while others were scratching around him
NZ series first test 2016 when pitch oscillated between decent and unplayable at times
Aus series Bangalore 2nd test where his 80 saved us from losing a series to Aus

These knocks are excluding his good knocks in Asian pitches where it didn't turn that crazily. If I include that, list will be much longer.

Kohli in comparison has just 2 knocks - Adelaide and Mumbai.

That's it.

You forgot Vizag test second innings against England.

Vizag wasn't a turner for that test. Was talking about turner.

What has Smith done on turners apart from Pune

Scored in UAE.
Scored century in Lanka even though he had big trouble with Herath (what did Kohli do when he faced a bowler he was clueless with)
Destroyed Ashwin in Sydney 2nd innings when it was turning miles (Ashwin destroyed other Aussie bats in that innings)
Adelaide 2nd innings destroyed Karn Sharma when it was turning miles (not a big deal but hey he has been playing crazy in all pitches)

The day when Kohli averages like Smith in an overseas tour where 2 tests were played on landmine pitches and stands head and shoulders above any other bats, we will THINK about calling him the better bat.

As of now, Pujara >>> Kohli in Asia....and Smith >>> Kohli outside Asia plsu overall.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Pujara innings on turner:

Mumbai 2012 facing Swann and Panesar
Chennai 2013 rank turner
Hyderabad 2013 serious turner
Delhi 2013 rank turner chasing 150 and scoring 85 at 80 SR while others were scratching around him
NZ series first test 2016 when pitch oscillated between decent and unplayable at times
Aus series Bangalore 2nd test where his 80 saved us from losing a series to Aus

These knocks are excluding his good knocks in Asian pitches where it didn't turn that crazily. If I include that, list will be much longer.

Kohli in comparison has just 2 knocks - Adelaide and Mumbai.

That's it.



Vizag wasn't a turner for that test. Was talking about turner.



Scored in UAE.
Scored century in Lanka even though he had big trouble with Herath (what did Kohli do when he faced a bowler he was clueless with)
Destroyed Ashwin in Sydney 2nd innings when it was turning miles (Ashwin destroyed other Aussie bats in that innings)
Adelaide 2nd innings destroyed Karn Sharma when it was turning miles (not a big deal but hey he has been playing crazy in all pitches)

The day when Kohli averages like Smith in an overseas tour where 2 tests were played on landmine pitches and stands head and shoulders above any other bats, we will THINK about calling him the better bat.

As of now, Pujara >>> Kohli in Asia....and Smith >>> Kohli outside Asia plsu overall.

Oh sorry I forgot the useful runs Pujara scored in 1st and 3rd test against SA home tour on rank turners. Him and Vijay did all the hard work.

Also forgot Smith's decent performance in India in 2013 tour.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I do rate Vizag's 2nd innings knock of Kohli big time like his 2nd innings knock against NZ in 2016.

 

[WengerOut]

I do rate Vizag's 2nd innings knock of Kohli big time like his 2nd innings knock against NZ in 2016.

Vizag was a turner second innings. I saw the match where Broad's cutters were deviating like a spinner.

On the 2 landmine pitches , of the 4 innings , Smith clicked in one innings ( had 6 lives but let's leave that ) . Now we are talking about Kohli prowess in tough conditions. He scored tough runs v Eng and NZ . Just coz Smith scores against India , Kohli need to reciprocate that ? A batsman can be out of form . Smith failed in Ban miserably but supposedly weaker Warner scored 2 centuries there. What happened there ?

And why are you hailing every innings by Smith? His century in Sri Lanka was in the dead rubber and no , it was not a turner. Marsh bros also did well there.

Smith's only innings was in Pune. Conditions wise toughness is what i am alluding to and not situation wise.


In alien conditions , Joburg test first innings was very challenging. People just forget that fact because the pitch flattened out in the second innings.

Only difference I could see with him and Smith is , Smith knows how to grind out innings better when not in form. Thats y he is ahead.


Now about bashing Karn Sharma and Ashwin. Joe Burns and Chris Rogers also scored runs in that second innings when they were going for declaration. What about Kohli's innings at Kolkata against SL ? On a day when 14 wickets fell , on a seaming track , when India was in a precarious position , he counter attacked and got India to declaration. 4 th test against SA , in the second innings , he scored 88 when in both innings SA scored about 120 and 140. And look who got India to draw at Wellington when the whole momentum was with NZ.

 

[WengerOut]

Sorry , even I forgot the useful runs Virat scored at Rajkot , Chennai 2013 against Australia etc.

 

[Princejain191]

Pujara innings on turner:

Mumbai 2012 facing Swann and Panesar
Chennai 2013 rank turner
Hyderabad 2013 serious turner
Delhi 2013 rank turner chasing 150 and scoring 85 at 80 SR while others were scratching around him
NZ series first test 2016 when pitch oscillated between decent and unplayable at times
Aus series Bangalore 2nd test where his 80 saved us from losing a series to Aus

These knocks are excluding his good knocks in Asian pitches where it didn't turn that crazily. If I include that, list will be much longer.

Kohli in comparison has just 2 knocks - Adelaide and Mumbai.

That's it.



Vizag wasn't a turner for that test. Was talking about turner.



Scored in UAE.
Scored century in Lanka even though he had big trouble with Herath (what did Kohli do when he faced a bowler he was clueless with)
Destroyed Ashwin in Sydney 2nd innings when it was turning miles (Ashwin destroyed other Aussie bats in that innings)
Adelaide 2nd innings destroyed Karn Sharma when it was turning miles (not a big deal but hey he has been playing crazy in all pitches)

The day when Kohli averages like Smith in an overseas tour where 2 tests were played on landmine pitches and stands head and shoulders above any other bats, we will THINK about calling him the better bat.

As of now, Pujara >>> Kohli in Asia....and Smith >>> Kohli outside Asia plsu overall.

Politely disagree. Apart from the 4-5 innings I have already mentioned and the two you have, Virat scored in Chennai vs Aus'13 (which was apparently a turning pitch), vs NZ in Bangalore'12 (turned and reversed), vs SL in Galle'15 (a turner again), watched him here in Delhi vs SA (a good cricket pitch early on that got slower with time) and there have been more.

Pujara has undoubtedly been better than all else in Asia but putting down Kohli to prove that is not too 'sensible'

And I don't think you were even serious about the Smith instances. In the adelaide inning, Smith made a massive 52* (woah) when the whole field was spread and probably faced about 8-10 balls of Karn who was bowling average. Compare that to Virat facing Lyon, where Lyon took 70/6 against everyone else and 80/1 against Virat in the 2nd inning.

And that Sydney one - come on man, where Aus made 251/6 in 40 overs and Joe burns made 66 off 39, the ball was turning miles?!?

Flawed arguments

 

[WengerOut]

Politely disagree. Apart from the 4-5 innings I have already mentioned and the two you have, Virat scored in Chennai vs Aus'13 (which was apparently a turning pitch), vs NZ in Bangalore'12 (turned and reversed), vs SL in Galle'15 (a turner again), watched him here in Delhi vs SA (a good cricket pitch early on that got slower with time) and there have been more.

Pujara has undoubtedly been better than all else in Asia but putting down Kohli to prove that is not too 'sensible'

And I don't think you were even serious about the Smith instances. In the adelaide inning, Smith made a massive 52* (woah) when the whole field was spread and probably faced about 8-10 balls of Karn who was bowling average. Compare that to Virat facing Lyon, where Lyon took 70/6 against everyone else and 80/1 against Virat in the 2nd inning.

And that Sydney one - come on man, where Aus made 251/6 in 40 overs and Joe burns made 66 off 39, the ball was turning miles?!?

Flawed arguments

I agree with you. Yes it is true that Pujara is better on turners and Smith is better overall. But to establish those points , the general trend here is to simply term Kohli runs as Soft while claiming every innings by them as Master pieces on tough conditions. That is the only issue i had with [MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] argument. It is not like Pujara and Smith have 50 such innings and Kohli none. It could be 5 vs 3 . That could be the difference.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Politely disagree. Apart from the 4-5 innings I have already mentioned and the two you have, Virat scored in Chennai vs Aus'13 (which was apparently a turning pitch), vs NZ in Bangalore'12 (turned and reversed), vs SL in Galle'15 (a turner again), watched him here in Delhi vs SA (a good cricket pitch early on that got slower with time) and there have been more.

Pujara has undoubtedly been better than all else in Asia but putting down Kohli to prove that is not too 'sensible'

And I don't think you were even serious about the Smith instances. In the adelaide inning, Smith made a massive 52* (woah) when the whole field was spread and probably faced about 8-10 balls of Karn who was bowling average. Compare that to Virat facing Lyon, where Lyon took 70/6 against everyone else and 80/1 against Virat in the 2nd inning.

And that Sydney one - come on man, where Aus made 251/6 in 40 overs and Joe burns made 66 off 39, the ball was turning miles?!?

Flawed arguments

Virat scored in Chennai vs Aus'13 (which was apparently a turning pitch), vs NZ in Bangalore'12 (turned and reversed), vs SL in Galle'15 (a turner again), watched him here in Delhi vs SA (a good cricket pitch early on that got slower with time) and there have been more.

Virat vs Chennai 2013 I forgot. Fair enough.
Galle 2015 was good too. Fair enough.
Delhi 2015 wasn't great. Kohli was ok in first innings (44 - hows it different from Root's useless 50s) and stat boosted on a flat track 2nd innings. Atleast Rahane scored in 1st innings.

Pujara has undoubtedly been better than all else in Asia but putting down Kohli to prove that is not too 'sensible'

Disagree.

I have seen WAY WAY WAY too many instances where Kohli would go missing in Asia when needed.

2012 England series - Went missing. Scored a good 100 in a dead rubber on a dead track but considering the context it was a good knock. In main games nowhere to be seen.
2013 Australia series - After the Chennai knock, went missing whole series.
2015 SA series - Went missing in live games, scored after pitch went dead.
2017 Australia series - Nowhere to be found.
2015 SL series - Yes was the highest scorer from India but then when you drop Pujara and Vijay out of injury, its not that hard. Plus he was ok. Scored in Galle while every other bat chipped in at various moments and then most crucial knock of them was played by Pujara with Kohli nowhere to be found.

Overseas too, he has had so so series.

2016 WI series - Started with a bang 200 and then went missing with others bailing out team.
2014 England series - Nowhere to be found.
2015 NZ away series - Was good in final innings (if DRS was there, even that was gone) but didn't score enough upfront in first innings.

And I don't think you were even serious about the Smith instances. In the adelaide inning, Smith made a massive 52* (woah) when the whole field was spread and probably faced about 8-10 balls of Karn who was bowling average. Compare that to Virat facing Lyon, where Lyon took 70/6 against everyone else and 80/1 against Virat in the 2nd inning.

And that Sydney one - come on man, where Aus made 251/6 in 40 overs and Joe burns made 66 off 39, the ball was turning miles?!?

Flawed arguments

I am afraid you have twisted my argument completely.

Wengerout asked me for all instances Smith scored and I listed them out. I never said that knock was comparable to Kohli's Adelaide masterclass.

In India when Smith toured, he was decent in 2013 and incredible in 2017 (100s in Pune, Ranchi and Dharmashala).

--

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Vizag was a turner second innings. I saw the match where Broad's cutters were deviating like a spinner.

On the 2 landmine pitches , of the 4 innings , Smith clicked in one innings ( had 6 lives but let's leave that ) . Now we are talking about Kohli prowess in tough conditions. He scored tough runs v Eng and NZ . Just coz Smith scores against India , Kohli need to reciprocate that ? A batsman can be out of form . Smith failed in Ban miserably but supposedly weaker Warner scored 2 centuries there. What happened there ?

And why are you hailing every innings by Smith? His century in Sri Lanka was in the dead rubber and no , it was not a turner. Marsh bros also did well there.

Smith's only innings was in Pune. Conditions wise toughness is what i am alluding to and not situation wise.


In alien conditions , Joburg test first innings was very challenging. People just forget that fact because the pitch flattened out in the second innings.

Only difference I could see with him and Smith is , Smith knows how to grind out innings better when not in form. Thats y he is ahead.


Now about bashing Karn Sharma and Ashwin. Joe Burns and Chris Rogers also scored runs in that second innings when they were going for declaration. What about Kohli's innings at Kolkata against SL ? On a day when 14 wickets fell , on a seaming track , when India was in a precarious position , he counter attacked and got India to declaration. 4 th test against SA , in the second innings , he scored 88 when in both innings SA scored about 120 and 140. And look who got India to draw at Wellington when the whole momentum was with NZ.

We are talking about Virat vs spin. Not overall good innings by Virat. if you ask me, I can list out quite a few of them.

Vizag was a turner second innings. I saw the match where Broad's cutters were deviating like a spinner.

If you notice carefully, it was Broad's SEAM movement that destroyed us. The pitch had some turn but nothing really troubled us. Ignore Rashid's wickets of tail which made it look like it was a real turner. Moreover, English spinners were absolutely rubbish that none posed trouble that day.

When India got to bowl THE SAME DAY, rollers were used and Ashwin and Jaddu had to toil for overs after overs with English openers playing out maidens. Ashwin got Hameed out on a grubber....remember? It was the next day, pitch was turning mroe and our spinners exploited and destroyed England.

On the 2 landmine pitches , of the 4 innings , Smith clicked in one innings ( had 6 lives but let's leave that ) . Now we are talking about Kohli prowess in tough conditions. He scored tough runs v Eng and NZ . Just coz Smith scores against India , Kohli need to reciprocate that ? A batsman can be out of form . Smith failed in Ban miserably but supposedly weaker Warner scored 2 centuries there. What happened there

I quoted Princejain reg Kohli vs spin. Scroll up mate.

1. Smith failed in 3 out of 4 innings but its not like he failed in spin tracks in total. He has scored in spin tracks and Pune, he played a crazy knock. The knock is raved NOT because he scored 100 but because of the strategy he employed to prevent getting out. Lets not get into that now cos thats a big debate in itself. Yes he was dropped many times but it was a masterclass in batting.

2. Smith also scored 100s in Ranchi and Dharmashala. If we start judging Kohli on his performance on pure heavy seamer friendly against overseas bowlers like we do for Smith in Asia, the results will be laughable.

England - Flop
West Indies - Only seamer track flop (Ash and Saha saved us)
Australia - Gabba seamer track flop (rest were pattas except Adelaide 4th innings - even Gabba wasn;t that hard but relativesly harder)
Joberg - Hit was a great knock

Lets not do that. Kohli has played well outside Asia and Smith has played well in asia. His series in India is as legendary as it gets.

3. Nothing wrong in Marsh scoring century in Lanka. He is a good player of spin. The pitch was an easier turner with Lankans not bowling great but still you need to apply to get those runs.

4. Its not like Kohli didn't get flat tracks overseas like England to boost up his stats. Steve Smith in his Ashes failed in good conditions but atleast he made use of flat tracks in England. Kohli failed in all.

5. Joe Burns and Rogers scoring does not mean they were comfortable. You also forget Ashwin was the ONLY spinner in our team with our pacers bowling garbage. I saw the innings fully. All were struggling against Ash while Smith was carting him around like a club bowler on a pitch that was seriously turning.

----

I do rate Kohli to be India's best bat overall. Just that based on my viewing, I have seen him fail in crucial moments sooo many times that I can't even think of putting him on par with Smith now.

As with cricket and with Kohli, you never know. This overseas cycle, Kohli may uproot tress and change the perception.

As of now, Kohli vs Smith is a no competition.

 

[Princejain191]

Virat vs Chennai 2013 I forgot. Fair enough.
Galle 2015 was good too. Fair enough.
Delhi 2015 wasn't great. Kohli was ok in first innings (44 - hows it different from Root's useless 50s) and stat boosted on a flat track 2nd innings. Atleast Rahane scored in 1st innings.



Disagree.

I have seen WAY WAY WAY too many instances where Kohli would go missing in Asia when needed.

2012 England series - Went missing. Scored a good 100 in a dead rubber on a dead track but considering the context it was a good knock. In main games nowhere to be seen.
2013 Australia series - After the Chennai knock, went missing whole series.
2015 SA series - Went missing in live games, scored after pitch went dead.
2017 Australia series - Nowhere to be found.
2015 SL series - Yes was the highest scorer from India but then when you drop Pujara and Vijay out of injury, its not that hard. Plus he was ok. Scored in Galle while every other bat chipped in at various moments and then most crucial knock of them was played by Pujara with Kohli nowhere to be found.

Overseas too, he has had so so series.

2016 WI series - Started with a bang 200 and then went missing with others bailing out team.
2014 England series - Nowhere to be found.
2015 NZ away series - Was good in final innings (if DRS was there, even that was gone) but didn't score enough upfront in first innings.



I am afraid you have twisted my argument completely.

Wengerout asked me for all instances Smith scored and I listed them out. I never said that knock was comparable to Kohli's Adelaide masterclass.

In India when Smith toured, he was decent in 2013 and incredible in 2017 (100s in Pune, Ranchi and Dharmashala).

--

What you have to remember is that for much of his first 2-3 years in Asia, Virat batted at 5 or 6 and would often chip in with 50/60s and bat with lower order. And it is often the time that the ball goes soft and scoring gets tougher.

That happened a lot to him:
He didn't go missing in Aus'13 -

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...lia-2nd-Test-australia-tour-of-india-2012-13/ - scored 34 but was batting with no 10 here in the only inning (2nd test)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...lia-3rd-Test-australia-tour-of-india-2012-13/ - 3rd test a 67*

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...lia-4th-Test-australia-tour-of-india-2012-13/ - Again scored a 41 (when it was turning in Delhi, not good not bad)

Agree he was below par vs Eng home (was 23 hothead then) and away but I think he has compensated somewhat for that in 2016. Saved the match with 49* in Rajkot, won us the matches in Vizag and Mumbai when the pitch was either turning large or was slow and tough to score. Without him, the scoreline might very well have been 2-2 after Mumbai.

Saw him in Delhi vs SA and tbh he was unlucky to get out the way he did in both innings (one kept low and the other bounced up after hitting the short leg). And he was average in two matches before and weirdly looked out of depth against fast bowlers. True about the Aus'17 series though.

Now rest are just nit-pickings. He was our best in SA (and was wrongly given out in 2nd match) where the conditions were tougher than in NZ. Was good in NZ (1st match 2nd inning) and then hit a decent 100 in 2nd match but also remember that these were his first matches in those countries, and he was 25, what should we have expected then? He was amazing vs SA'13, Aus'11 (in Perth and Adelaide), again in AUS'15, decent in NZ'14 and he hasn't played much in those 4 countries since then. The only real away tour failure in big 4 countries for Virat has been ENG'14.

And Smith has had 2 tours of India and another three in Asian conditions, plays here throughout the IPL on practice pitches, has toured England thrice already and played county cricket. We can judge Virat based on his ENG'14 but he has only had one tour there.

I don't see Smith as too ahead of Virat cos he does get a lot LOT of soft runs cos on Australian pitches and Virat has not toured in 4 big countries since 2014, I reserve my judgement for how ahead Smith is of Kohli till Virat's 2018 season. (Yes, Smith was amazing in dharmsala and Ranchi)

 

[WengerOut]

We are talking about Virat vs spin. Not overall good innings by Virat. if you ask me, I can list out quite a few of them.



If you notice carefully, it was Broad's SEAM movement that destroyed us. The pitch had some turn but nothing really troubled us. Ignore Rashid's wickets of tail which made it look like it was a real turner. Moreover, English spinners were absolutely rubbish that none posed trouble that day.

When India got to bowl THE SAME DAY, rollers were used and Ashwin and Jaddu had to toil for overs after overs with English openers playing out maidens. Ashwin got Hameed out on a grubber....remember? It was the next day, pitch was turning mroe and our spinners exploited and destroyed England.



I quoted Princejain reg Kohli vs spin. Scroll up mate.

1. Smith failed in 3 out of 4 innings but its not like he failed in spin tracks in total. He has scored in spin tracks and Pune, he played a crazy knock. The knock is raved NOT because he scored 100 but because of the strategy he employed to prevent getting out. Lets not get into that now cos thats a big debate in itself. Yes he was dropped many times but it was a masterclass in batting.

2. Smith also scored 100s in Ranchi and Dharmashala. If we start judging Kohli on his performance on pure heavy seamer friendly against overseas bowlers like we do for Smith in Asia, the results will be laughable.

England - Flop
West Indies - Only seamer track flop (Ash and Saha saved us)
Australia - Gabba seamer track flop (rest were pattas except Adelaide 4th innings - even Gabba wasn;t that hard but relativesly harder)
Joberg - Hit was a great knock

Lets not do that. Kohli has played well outside Asia and Smith has played well in asia. His series in India is as legendary as it gets.

3. Nothing wrong in Marsh scoring century in Lanka. He is a good player of spin. The pitch was an easier turner with Lankans not bowling great but still you need to apply to get those runs.

4. Its not like Kohli didn't get flat tracks overseas like England to boost up his stats. Steve Smith in his Ashes failed in good conditions but atleast he made use of flat tracks in England. Kohli failed in all.

5. Joe Burns and Rogers scoring does not mean they were comfortable. You also forget Ashwin was the ONLY spinner in our team with our pacers bowling garbage. I saw the innings fully. All were struggling against Ash while Smith was carting him around like a club bowler on a pitch that was seriously turning.

----

I do rate Kohli to be India's best bat overall. Just that based on my viewing, I have seen him fail in crucial moments sooo many times that I can't even think of putting him on par with Smith now.

As with cricket and with Kohli, you never know. This overseas cycle, Kohli may uproot tress and change the perception.

As of now, Kohli vs Smith is a no competition.

Again , if you consider the runs , Smith tour of India was very good by the best batsman in the world. But when toughness is taken into consideration , only one remains is the flawed innings in Pune. True , Virat flopped that series. But it was merely out of form rather than not knowing to play because he has played before. You took his Delhi innings out , but you considered Smiths dead rubber innings in SL which was not a turner. Mitch Marsh also scored FYI.

For your 4th point , are you saying Kohli can't even score on flat track in England ? If so , there is no point discussing. We are talking about tough runs. Virat flopped in Eng. And if you scroll up the screen , you can also see exactly why i rate Smith better. You conveniently ignored his Ban exploits.

Lets agree to disagree on Vizag. I saw that match as a whole. It was very tough innings . If anything just look at the score card. Chennai 2013 is also an underrated one.

About your 5th point also , I dint see any
extra difficulty from Ashwin. Aussies except Smith are very inept against spin. Also Ashwin in Australia is as benign as it can get. Burns, Rogers and Haddin were not only playing but smashing him as well.If anything Virat scored the more meaningful 46 to help get a draw against Lyon whom I rate above Ashwin in Australia.

About the seamer exploits , Kolkata second innings against NZ when it was keeping low as well, Same venue SL etc you missed. Seaming pitches can be anywhere.



If this post is the exploits v Spin , I agree Pujara has the best output among the three. But Smith has only one innings . Why do you insist that he has to score in the same series as Smith? I agree that he is not on par with Smith but it is not like the way you are trying to portray.

 

[jnaveen1980]

It will be very tough for VK to eclipse smith in SA since both are lined to tour there next.
But if vk has great tour and smith has underpar then gap cap become really close to the matter of just personal opinions of people.
Right now smith is unanimous no 1.

An Australian doing well in SA is not really a big deal. But Indian doing well is a big deal due to different types of balls they face, different types of surfaces they will play on. Bit like Indian player bragging about his record in SL or BD.

 

[rudra]

An Australian doing well in SA is not really a big deal. But Indian doing well is a big deal due to different types of balls they face, different types of surfaces they will play on. Bit like Indian player bragging about his record in SL or BD.

Yeah but SA is a top test nation but SL/bang isn't.
Howevee, I do agree vk 100 must be rated twice than that of smith in similar match situation in SA.

 

[Savage]

Ponting is clearly wrong.Kohli is not close and is on same level as Williamson and root.Those three are nowhere near Steve smith(ponting should've said that)

 

[jnaveen1980]

Ponting is clearly wrong.Kohli is not close and is on same level as Williamson and root.Those three are nowhere near Steve smith(ponting should've said that)

For the calendar year 2017 Kohli has better average and far better strike rate in Tests compared to Smithy. This is despite Kohli was in a bit of slump early this year.

 

[JaDed]

Ponting is clearly wrong.Kohli is not close and is on same level as Williamson and root.Those three are nowhere near Steve smith(ponting should've said that)

Root is nowhere near Kohli and Williamson,Smith is defn above the rest but can't believe Root even gets mentioned anymore.

 

[Aman]

Root is nowhere near Kohli and Williamson,Smith is defn above the rest but can't believe Root even gets mentioned anymore.

Tbf, Kane has had a pretty poor 2017 outside a few innings.

I think he's scored 1 Test 100 and 2 ODI 100s all year.

 

[Hitman]

Nobody is close to Steve Smith in Test cricket, not even Kohli.

 

[Chrish]

If Kohli were to have a godly series in SA like his OZ tour, then I would be comfortable rating him as the best current batsman. But before then any discussion is futile.

In short SA tour will tell us everything we need to know.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Dont mix formats. He failed in two biggest series at home:

India vs Australia
India vs SA

You seriously are going to give credit had he succeeded? lol He did well in SA and Australia didn't he? Kohli failing at home is an anamoly more than a routine thing.

 

[Ab Fan]

Tbf, Kane has had a pretty poor 2017 outside a few innings.

I think he's scored 1 Test 100 and 2 ODI 100s all year.

I recall he had a fantastic series at home vs SA( a team who has always dominated NZ even at home but this time around the series could have gone either way).

Two of his knocks in that series itself were better than any daddy hundred scored against the likes of Lankans and WI.

 

[Smudger]

I recall he had a fantastic series at home vs SA( a team who has always dominated NZ even at home but this time around the series could have gone either way).

Two of his knocks in that series itself were better than any daddy hundred scored against the likes of Lankans and WI.

Kane also played fantasticly in champions trophy . Got out only once on bowling. He got run out 2 times

 

[Sam99]

Dont mix formats. He failed in two biggest series at home:

India vs Australia
India vs SA

He can fail against both aus and south africa every time if both countries start making pitches little helpful for fast bowlers. (Only these 2 countries look to have quality bowlers right now who can trouble him)