Virat Kohli is an over-achiever as a batsman but his teams have not won much

[aazhar]

Kohli is only slightly better than Tendulkar in what he is able to actually win for his team when it comes to winning test series away from home, or significant ODI or T20 series. I understand how Kohli can only do so much but atleast Tendulkar won series in Eng and had a drawn series in Aus.

So what is all the type about "TEAM INDIA"? They certainly have under-achieved compared to the hype.

I understand how Messi cannot win Argentina the world cup but look at what he has done for Barca. Kohli has lost 10 IPLs! He is an over-achiever for himself as batsmen but his team has not won as much as you would think.

Tests
IND tour of AUS 2011 Away lost 4-0
IND tour of SA 2013 Away lost 1-0
IND tour of NZ 2014 Away lost 1-0
IND tour of ENG 2014 Away lost 3-1
IND tour of SA 2018 Away lost 2-1
IND tour of ENG 2018 Away Ongoing 1-0

ODIs
2010 Asia Cup won
2011 WC won
Asia Cup 2012 lost
2013 CT won
Asia Cup 2014 lost
2015 WC lost
2017 CT lost

T20s
World T20 2012 lost
World T20 2014 lost
World T20 2016 lost
Asia Cup 2016 won

IPLs
All 10 IPLs

 

[PakLFC]

Perhaps he struggles to motivate his team as captain. He seems to be more of an individual then a team player. Still seems rather immature in his body language on the field of play like when he ran Joe Root out his antics were uncalled for. Dhoni being much more sensible would never have done that.

 

[cricketjoshila]

One batsman cannot win you cups. Cricket is a team game of 11 players.

 

[TeamPak95]

You can't have it all

 

[ChuckLee]

Perhaps he struggles to motivate his team as captain. He seems to be more of an individual then a team player. Still seems rather immature in his body language on the field of play like when he ran Joe Root out his antics were uncalled for. Dhoni being much more sensible would never have done that.

Your posts do crack me up.

 

[ManFan]

You can’t blame Kohli just like you can’t blame Tendulkar.

 

[barah_admi]

A bit of blame must fall on Kohli but not for the obvious reasons. He is heavily involved ,from what I read, in selecting his sides and yet, seems to be selecting players that cant grit it out, are not tough enough for all their fancy beards and just are not good enough in the long form.

Is there a lack of long form players or are the likes of Sharma, Rahane, Saha really the best?

 

[JaDed]

You think Barca was just Messi?

 

[Dead Ball]

Messi won with the help of great team mates like Iniesta Xavi Neymar Suarez etc.

Kohli's test career will go the Lara way. He may pull of a couple of mind blowing victories with the bat, but largely his efforts will go in vain due to the weak team he carries.

Just gives those who want to belittle his achievements another point to argue. Kohli not a 'matchwinner'.

 

[giri26]

Kohli is facing the same issue as Sachin did during his captaincy schedule. Sachin had one of the worst set of players when he was the captain. Players like Hrishikesh "winning hit" Kanitkar, Dodda Ganesh, MSK Prasad, Devang Gandhi, Sujit Somasundar etc played under him. Some probably his own doing but the rest were just very poor selections. Here Kohli has lots of power in selections but yet keeps selecting the same players again and again. I just hope that after England tour, we get rid of some players on whom we have invested lots of time but have not seen any improvements.

 

[EliteCynical]

Seems like a deja vu to me. It's like my teenage is happening all over again. The same thing happened with sachin in the 90's (actually it started at Perth in 1992 with his 114, but the one where he really increased the gap between him and others began at Edgbaston 122 out of 219 in 1996). Sachin's team seldom took 20 wickets. Here India have been taking 20 wickets consistently, so wondering how poor can rest of the batsmen get!

Trying to reason this out as to why is it a one man show? Does he as a captain expect others to be as passionate, determined, focussed and consistent like him? I think Sachin had that issue when he was captain.

Or

Do other batsmen have some sort of complex being around Kohli and actually succumb to pressure in unhelpful conditions?

Whatever it is, this is not good for India! Hope Dravid is watching all this and takes care of the technique of youngsters against the moving ball.

Right now, it seems that the moment a ball moves a inch sideways, most of the top order bats are sitting ducks!

 

[Slim]

One batsman cannot win you cups. Cricket is a team game of 11 players.

Well said, indian team is a one man show and its not Kohli's fault that his colleagues are not good enough.

 

[Slim]

You can’t blame Kohli just like you can’t blame Tendulkar.

Kohli and Sachin's case is different. Kohli is anything but selfish.

 

[ManFan]

Kohli and Sachin's case is different. Kohli is anything but selfish.

Tendulkar was not selfish but a choker.

In big games, he often got overwhelmed and ended up pysching himself out.

 

[Slim]

Tendulkar was not selfish but a choker.

In big games, he often got overwhelmed and ended up pysching himself out.

Yes he was a choker but he also became selfish in the latter part of his career as he used to play slow to get to his centuries.

I really want Kohli for his own sake to take initiative and use his power to kick useless players from the squad. He needs to push for the selection of Shaw and Gill otherwise the indian fans who have donated their brains to the zombies will keep on questioning his captaincy.

 

[giri26]

Kohli and Sachin's case is different. Kohli is anything but selfish.

Sachin Wasn't selfish. Everyone is hung up with that one hundred he scored against Bangladesh. Sachin has played some amazing innings for India at the top in 90's without a care for his wicket. The Indian team was extremely poor and Sachin wasn't very good in closing out the games.

 

[ManFan]

Yes he was a choker but he also became selfish in the latter part of his career as he used to play slow to get to his centuries.

I really want Kohli for his own sake to take initiative and use his power to kick useless players from the squad. He needs to push for the selection of Shaw and Gill otherwise the indian fans who have donated their brains to the zombies will keep on questioning his captaincy.

Kohli’s mental game is on another level compared to anyone in recent memory and is strong enough to lead also.

But he’s an egomaniac just like all great individuals in their respective fields and he lacks the foresight to implement raw players into a cliched line-up.

 

[leatherface58]

Cannot win with 1.5 batsmen in your team even with bowlers doing well.

 

[Adijazz1706]

Tendulkar was not selfish but a choker.

In big games, he often got overwhelmed and ended up pysching himself out.

When and how has he choked in big games compared to Kohli? I've heard this a lot but never seen concrete proof of it being true

 

[ManFan]

When and how has he choked in big games compared to Kohli? I've heard this a lot but never seen concrete proof of it being true

2003 WC Final

2011 WC Final

In fact, the 96’ and 03’ WC’s were he scored 600 runs, were all against minnows and even when he scored centuries against non-minnows, only one against SL resulted in a win.

Than you have the Chennai Test where he tried slogging Saqlain and triggered a collapse.

 

[Rahul1]

Cannot win with 1.5 batsmen in your team even with bowlers doing well.

I wonder who is the 0.5 batsman.

 

[Slim]

I wonder who is the 0.5 batsman.

0.5 = Rest of the team

 

[Sam99]

0.5 = Rest of the team

Rest of team scored more than kohli did

 

[cricketindiafan]

Our of his 67 tests, India have won 32 and lost 18 tests
Out of 211 ODIs, India have won 127 and lost 73 ODIs
Out of 62 T20Is, India have won 40 and lost 21

As captain
Out of 36 tests, won 21 , lost 6
Out of 52 ODIs, won 39, lost 12
Out of 17 T20Is, won 11, lost 6

Doesn't win much?

 

[Dingolfy]

First Indian captain to whitewash SL in SL and didnt even lost one game in that tour.
Beat Australia 4-1. Dont think we have ever beaten anywhere with that margin in our history.
Beat SA 5-1.Again First Indian captain to beat SA in an ODI series in SA.That too by that big margin
Beat a Strong England side 4-0.
Our bowlers thrived under him.Especially fast bowlers.

 

[Slim]

First Indian captain to whitewash SL in SL and didnt even lost one game in that tour.
Beat Australia 4-1. Dont think we have ever beaten anywhere with that margin in our history.
Beat SA 5-1.Again First Indian captain to beat SA in an ODI series in SA.That too by that big margin
Beat a Strong England side 4-0.
Our bowlers thrived under him.Especially fast bowlers.

Thankyou!

Kohli is a good captain.

 

[Hasan123]

How can you blame 1 player when a team doesn't win ? Especially when that player is the main run scorer. Stop trying to play down his achievements.

 

[Adijazz1706]

2003 WC Final

2011 WC Final

In fact, the 96’ and 03’ WC’s were he scored 600 runs, were all against minnows and even when he scored centuries against non-minnows, only one against SL resulted in a win.

Than you have the Chennai Test where he tried slogging Saqlain and triggered a collapse.

Compared to Kohli who has 0 against Bangladesh in a QF, 1 against Australia in a SF, 9 against Pakistan in another SF where Sachin got 85, not to mention he got out slogging Lyon in the Adelaide Test himself. So this refrain rings hollow

 

[Indiafan]

2003 WC Final

2011 WC Final

In fact, the 96’ and 03’ WC’s were he scored 600 runs, were all against minnows and even when he scored centuries against non-minnows, only one against SL resulted in a win.

Than you have the Chennai Test where he tried slogging Saqlain and triggered a collapse.

How was WC 2003 final different than CT last final where Kohli did the same thing? Has any team ever won after opposition scored 350 in a WC final?

You convinently ignored that WC 2011 semis where Sachin played a crucial role

So you base this on one single sample of 2011 final? Did you know Ponting played 5 WC finals and failed in 4?

Did you know Inzi choked in every single world cup after his debut

Every knows sachin's back was almost broken in the Chennai test and he was on painkillers

You bring out the Chennai test but ignore that Sachin has a not out 100 in the highest successful 4th innings chase in India, a chase of a mammoth 387

I love how people show their pettiness and bring more ways to cut and slice to demean Sachin when every single player will have the same failures Sachin had. Really, really petty

 

[j_kazmi]

The example of Messi is a dumb one. He has the one of the best players money can buy backing him in Barca, which is why he’s won so many times.

In IPL, there are a lot of restrictions and limitations and Kohli doesn’t necessarily play for the best IPL team so it limits his success.

 

[ManFan]

How was WC 2003 final different than CT last final where Kohli did the same thing? Has any team ever won after opposition scored 350 in a WC final?

You convinently ignored that WC 2011 semis where Sachin played a crucial role

So you base this on one single sample of 2011 final? Did you know Ponting played 5 WC finals and failed in 4?

Did you know Inzi choked in every single world cup after his debut

Every knows sachin's back was almost broken in the Chennai test and he was on painkillers

You bring out the Chennai test but ignore that Sachin has a not out 100 in the highest successful 4th innings chase in India, a chase of a mammoth 387

I love how people show their pettiness and bring more ways to cut and slice to demean Sachin when every single player will have the same failures Sachin had. Really, really petty

Here we go again:

1) Both AUS and PAK scored 300+ and India had little to no chance of winning the game. But it ain’t over til it’s over and it is the manner in which Tendulkar and Kohli got out in the Final, that show that they choked. Tendulkar was our for 4 and his heir out for 5.

2) Ponting played five World Cup Finals and failed in four? What? He played four consecutive Finals and failed only twice. Mind you, in his last WC game, the QF against India, he scored a century while Tendulkar scored half of his 102. He played what Wisden regarded as the single greatest ODI knock of all time.

1996: 45 (Second highest run-scorer)
1999: 24
2003: 140
2007: 37

So in WC Finals, Ponting averages 61.5 while Tendulkar averages 11.

3) Inzimam did in fact choke in every World Cup after his debut tournament but he has one of the ATG WC performances in a Semi-Final in his resume. As far as Tendulkar’s 2011 SF exploits it was a very poor innings. He was dropped five times and survived two very fine LBW calls while looking at sea against Hafeez and Akmal of all players. Yet he won his team the match so that cannot be ignored.

4) When India chased down that 387 against England, it was Shewag who set the platform with 83 off 68 balls taking India beyond a quarter of the target in only 22 overs. All Tendulkar had to do was not get OUt which he managed but kudos to him. However, it was Sehwag and not Tendulkar who was awarded the Man of the Match because his knock was more crucial towards the ultimate victory.

5) Sachin’s 136 was a fantastic knock under extreme adversity but it was not enough. It’s like Kohli’s knock of 149 against England the other day. Although it can be lauded for its Herculean spirit it ultimately fell short of the goal: Total Victory. Once again, Tendulkar got OUT when least expected and sixteen runs away from victory with three wickets left. The blame for Chennai rests not on Kumble, Joshi, or Srinath (three tail-enders) but Tendulkar (the last recognizable batsman).

To conclude, I love Tendulkar and have repeatable stated on this forum that he is the most complete and durable batsman that the game has ever seen. However, he was a notorious choker and that cannot be denied by his defining moments (or lack there of).

 

[InziRules]

I've always felt that like Sachin, Kohli shouldn't be captain.

As for trying to act like Sachin isn't the greatest batsman ever, grow up and admit he's awesome

 

[Pakhs]

He is not an over achiever by any means. He was a wonderful talent when he was 13 year old. He was fast tracked into the Indian underage cricket to national team for a reason. as test captain and his team jury is still out.