What's new

What are the reasons for South Africa being unable to get the job done in ICC Tournaments?

Hasan123

Hasan123

Test Star
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Runs
38,432
It's well known that South Africa struggle to win knockout games in icc tournaments despite have a team full of quality and a good domestic structure.

What are the reasons for this,I would like to get the opnions of you guy.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=139678]Zak_Fan[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] [MENTION=139765]Arham_PakFan[/MENTION] [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION]
 
SOU lacks big match temperament.

Their players freeze in pressure.

I've seen De Villiers get run out in knockout matches of earlier ICC events & IPL. This is a prime reason of De Villiers not having the same legacy of Virat Kohli irrespective of being able to play 360 degree shots.

Solution:

SOU needs a psychologist in their ranks.

Also I think it's time that De Villiers hands over ODI reins to Du Plessis. Du Plessis was also in error against Ind but he's far more tactically sound than De Villiers. Whitewashed Australia 5-0 in Australia in 2016.
 
Sami92 said:
SOU lacks big match temperament.

Their players freeze in pressure.

I've seen De Villiers get run out in knockout matches of earlier ICC events & IPL. This is a prime reason of De Villiers not having the same legacy of Virat Kohli irrespective of being able to play 360 degree shots.

Solution:

SOU needs a psychologist in their ranks.

Also I think it's time that De Villiers hands over ODI reins to Du Plessis. Du Plessis was also in error against Ind but he's far more tactically sound than De Villiers. Whitewashed Australia 5-0 in Australia in 2016.
Click to expand...


Faf should be made captain.

Also South Africa beat Australia 5-0 in South Africa.
 
You can't rationalize a mental fear into quantifiable numbers. Unless and until SA actually seals the deals in one of any upcoming ICC tournaments they would continue to struggle and choke in the foeseeavle future.

We can all try to see in the light of science and numericals but at the end of the day it simply comes down to holding your nerve and getting the job done, which unfortunately SA, haven't managed to do in their entire cricketing history.
 
De Villiers is a great Great player but he is a choker and being a captain that doesn't helps and it instills in the team if SA are to win then they have to dump AB n Amla and I fear they have a young choker as well which is Quinton
 
They can't even take pressure in IPL, QDK got so overwhelmed with fans in IPL,ABD and RCB lol.
Smith alone was their top player who missed the golden 2011 opportunity.
 
I think their batting is too heavily dependent on Hashim Amla and AB De Villiers. So if one of those guys fail it automatically hurts them. It doesn't help that those 2 generally crumble under the pressure of an ICC tournament. Quinton is also one of those who has those traits.

I think it's really the batting which lets them down.
 
Almost in every tourney since 99 SA enters with a strong squad but still they're empty handed

Legends like Kallis Smith Steyn Pollock Donald doesn't have a runners up medal let alone the winners medal
 
idrizzy said:
They're the worst team at pressure situations. Worse than Pakistan.
Click to expand...

For Pak its about expectations,you expect they lose.Unless the "pressure" is of expectation and not the match situation as such.
Saffers fail in match situation pressure.
 
It is baffling a team with that amount of talent and quality cannot get it done in ICC tournaments. You'd have to chalk it up to mental weakness.

Right now they're carrying bits and pieces ARs like Morris, Phehlukwayo and Pretorious.
 
It has been pure luck thus far, or you could possibly account for reasons [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] has mentioned. But here on, the sole reason for the decline of South African cricket will be the quota system and their racist government.
 
The Proteas prepare all ICC tournaments by hiring psychologists, motivational speakers, get involved in military drills, hire a yoga instructor, hire a doctor for the nutritional needs hire a strategist

Nothing works for them and nobody understands it
 
Hasan123 said:
It's well known that South Africa struggle to win knockout games in icc tournaments despite have a team full of quality and a good domestic structure.

What are the reasons for this,I would like to get the opnions of you guy.

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=139678]Zak_Fan[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] [MENTION=139765]Arham_PakFan[/MENTION] [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION]
Click to expand...

It is a mental thing.Their current top performers like AB and Amla,past players such as Klusener,Pollock,performed poorly under pressure.That is why they do well in bilaterals but poor(relatively) in tournaments,and never perform upto their capability.

The players themselves are fantastic,and South Africa has produced cricketing greats in the past as well,so it is a shame they have never won a WC or a T20 WC.These players are/were mental midgets
 
I think they suffer from the same disease that Pakistan suffers from when they face India.

The big stage frightens them.

Brains and body start freezing.

Silly errors in the field which you wont commit normally start happening.

You start over analysing things.

If you look at the Ind vs Pak and this Ind vs Sa match , you will find a lot of similarities between Pakistan's and SA's conduct while batting and while fielding.

On the other hand, Indians have learnt how to thrive under pressure. They take advantage of the chaos other teams go through on the field. This is Dhoni's gift to them.
 
Actually they won one icc tournament, the knockout championship of 98, where all the matches were knockout. But to be fair nobody knows what happens to SA in icc tournaments,
 
Hasan123 said:
It's well known that South Africa struggle to win knockout games in icc tournaments despite have a team full of quality and a good domestic structure.

What are the reasons for this,I would like to get the opnions of you guy.

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=139678]Zak_Fan[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] [MENTION=139765]Arham_PakFan[/MENTION] [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION]
Click to expand...


Fate + Mentally not strong enough.


Don't know why they are not mentally strong like Aus, UK, NZ. English players were also weak in mental department once but they did not have enough quality players but now they have alot of quality players plus they are mentally strong too.


Genetic studies are needed.


Pakistani players have always been mentally weak but our culture, religion, society is the reason for it. We Mature late. But for South Africa it's either Fate of the Nation or Genetic variants.


Very Dissapointing though. Players like Donald, Steyn, Kallis, Klusener, Barry Richards etc are not born very often.

The only team which at one point had 2-3 genuine allrounders
capable of bowling 150kph but No Major trophy against their name.
 
Mentally weak culture in the team.

Can give it out but can't take it.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
Fate + Mentally not strong enough.


Don't know why they are not mentally strong like Aus, UK, NZ. English players were also weak in mental department once but they did not have enough quality players but now they have alot of quality players plus they are mentally strong too.


Genetic studies are needed.


Pakistani players have always been mentally weak but our culture, religion, society is the reason for it. We Mature late. But for South Africa it's either Fate of the Nation or Genetic variants.


Very Dissapointing though. Players like Donald, Steyn, Kallis, Klusener, Barry Richards etc are not born very often.

The only team which at one point had 2-3 genuine allrounders
capable of bowling 150kph but No Major trophy against their name.
Click to expand...

That would make sense if we were like this in every other sport, but we aren't. It's only cricket.

In teams games, like rugby, we have two world cup wins. For individual sports, we have numerous Olympic gold medals and a number of golf pros.

I honestly don't think this is a South African problem, but rather a cricket South Africa problem. A culture change is needed.
 
Last edited:
This is over-analyzing. I think people have got the word choke absolutely wrong. They choked only twice (99 and '11 against NZ) . I think the other teams came out strongly against SA in the past in some of the KO games. You cant claim, 2003,1996, 1992, or 2007 KO games as choke.

I didnt like the way Ganguly asked Pollock about the same. It shows some arrogance asking this on the mike and he was unable to answer.
 
Too scientific and rigid in their approach .
Still remember cricinfo's headline before the 2009 t20 WC semifinal vs pakistan "Art vs Sciemce ".
Treat it as a sport . Enjoy the game more and express yourself . Westindies in wt20 tournaments is a perfect example of a team expressing their skills , treating the sport as an art something the South africans never do .
Probably a byproduct of their mental weakness and cricket culture.
 
Ozymandiasza said:
That would make sense if we were like this in every other sport, but we aren't. It's only cricket.

In teams games, like rugby, we have two world cup wins. For individual sports, we have numerous Olympic gold medals and a number of golf pros.

I honestly don't think this is a South African problem, but rather a cricket South Africa problem. A culture change is needed.
Click to expand...



My Post has been defeated by Counter very strong Argument.



This is happening since 1992. So I am sure they would have tried to address it. What is the Problem with Cricket Culture which produces Top Cricketers ? I am sure there will be Sports Psychologists, Motivational Speakers etc. Than there have been different Managers, Coaches over the years. Domestic Cricket is highly Competitive and pressure is tasted adequately at domestic level by these sportsmen.
 
adit_sh said:
This is over-analyzing. I think people have got the word choke absolutely wrong. They choked only twice (99 and '11 against NZ) . I think the other teams came out strongly against SA in the past in some of the KO games. You cant claim, 2003,1996, 1992, or 2007 KO games as choke.

I didnt like the way Ganguly asked Pollock about the same. It shows some arrogance asking this on the mike and he was unable to answer.
Click to expand...

96 was a choke. They were no.1 team. 2003 if they are losing that way by reading wrong scoreline then its again choke.

92 was bad luck and in 2007 only they were outplayed.

2015 they were in strong position and should have won from there.
 
Not choking.

Just have poor lower order players who couldn't get the job done. Allrounders aren't good enough, lower order batting is poor.
 
Ab Fan said:
96 was a choke. They were no.1 team. 2003 if they are losing that way by reading wrong scoreline then its again choke.

92 was bad luck and in 2007 only they were outplayed.

2015 they were in strong position and should have won from there.
Click to expand...

You dont analyze choke with pretournament rankings in mind
It was Lara agains SA in 1996 and Walsh & company restricted SA. That doesnt go with choke Definition
SA batted first in 2015 and couldnt restrict NZ which again is not a choke.
I dont think 2003 was a KO game and cricketing skill doesnt have anything to do with score misreading.
 
As I have said a dozen times before, this current generation of South African players do not have the cojones. They are softer than cotton. However, people don't get it. Two years on, same folks will have them as favorites for the World Cup because of the squad that they possess on paper.
 
It's bizarre. It happens so frequently you think it's a curse. Maybe it is. Even Hansie Cronje's team (which was far superior to the present one) failed in big tournaments.
 
vhfij9.jpg


:yk
 
Poor captaincy with all the great players you have and still cant win. Time for faf to step up and take the lead. AB gotta go
 
South Africa are the Arsenal of cricket, but even worse. Absolutely gutless, spineless. Would prefer players with lesser ability who atleast have some balls.
 
Only time they won an ICC tournament was in 1998 under the leadership Hansie Cronje, the first Champions trophy formerly known as the knock-outs
 
It's just inexplicable, the same team is of a very high calibre at the Test Level and arguably one of the best in the world who do better away from home compared to other teams yet in the limited forms they have nothing to show for all their talent when it comes to ICC tournaments.

Solutions:

Special attention from a psychologist, psychiatrist, spiritualist and motivational speaker which reinforces positivity and relieves all the demons these Saffers have in their minds. This should also be combined with a team of massage therapists.
 
Am so happy that Imran Tahir is disappointed/miserable though, Eid has come early :))) [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
 
I think it's not just mental.
Before bilaterals you can prepare for each and every individual of opponent team and come up with a plan against them as you have a lot of time to do so.
But ICC tournaments are different. You dont get the same amount of preparation and time to plan against opponents. Sometimes 2 days before the game you dont even know who you are playing against.
They are a team who rely heavily on planning while ICC tournaments are won by teams with individuals giving match winning performances.
 
92 - Rain
96- WI pace attack was better on the day.
99- Gibbs / Klusener and Donald's brain fade.
2003 - Boucher miscommunication with dressing room.
2007- Australia blew them (Lee/Mcgrath/Gillespie/Symonds)
2011- Dont remeber
2015- Unlucky to drop catch.
 
Sami92 said:
SOU lacks big match temperament.

Their players freeze in pressure.

I've seen De Villiers get run out in knockout matches of earlier ICC events & IPL. This is a prime reason of De Villiers not having the same legacy of Virat Kohli irrespective of being able to play 360 degree shots.

Solution:

SOU needs a psychologist in their ranks.

Also I think it's time that De Villiers hands over ODI reins to Du Plessis. Du Plessis was also in error against Ind but he's far more tactically sound than De Villiers. Whitewashed Australia 5-0 in Australia in 2016.
Click to expand...

They had a psychologist somewhere in the 2000s. Still the same problem. Maybe their issue is perfection. They need to stop focusing on being perfect and learn to win ugly.
 
Hasan123 said:
It's well known that South Africa struggle to win knockout games in icc tournaments despite have a team full of quality and a good domestic structure.

What are the reasons for this,I would like to get the opnions of you guy.

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] [MENTION=139678]Zak_Fan[/MENTION] [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] [MENTION=139765]Arham_PakFan[/MENTION] [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION]
Click to expand...

I wrote it in some other thread -

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That tells how good SAF is at their home - almost toying with Lanka now & couple of years back beat a very good Indian side 2-0 with telling margin every time (would have won the 3-0 barring rain). I think, SAF has demolished most teams at home in last 4/5 years.

Their problem is choking in big occasions - for something that's actually make them almost unbeatable in bilateral series. 10 years back, they beat that AUS side chasing 440 & won that series 3-2 from 0-2. What SAF does is they over prepare for their games - plans, counter plans, strategies, process, lap tops, palm tops, ear plugs, ....... what not. This makes them extremely efficient when things are under control - but this actually makes them too rigid, tense & extremely shaky when it comes to big matches (more than match occasions) - first sign of anything going out of play book - they just leave the contest. This is my only explanation for this team, which should have at least halved AUS's world titles in last 20 years.

So far from 1992, every WC, SAF had been knocked out in a way that such pro & prepared teams shouldn't - 1992 might be a bit unlucky (but they deserved that, I explained some where else - deliberately bowled 5 overs less, unless would have chased 310 in 50 overs); in 1996 they dropped Donald to pick Symcox for his batting & off spin (irony is that 80% WI scores were done by lefties); in 1999 because of dropping a dolly & then goofing up in last over; in 2003 it's because of mis-calculation of all. In 2011, they became over cautious of a target that 9 times out of 10, they would have chased in 40 overs, while in 2015 this team lost for their drop catches & abundance of wides & no balls !!!!!

This only tells me that, they over cook things at preparation & take the human part (natural ability to react in a changing plot) out of the equation. May be, appointing a Pakistani or Indian coach will help them to find their natural self - and I am not joking. This well oiled machine needs a human touch, who makes mistakes & more importantly not afraid of making mistakes.


- See more at: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...e-and&highlight=Palm+top#sthash.6XE4inJu.dpuf
Read more at http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...outside-of-their-home-and#WeHbjFQ7BrlS4gMH.99
 
Extremely disappointing selfish stuff from Du Plessis... not at all done to run out your team mate in that fashion - it actually looked as if he was diving to save himself and make the crease before Miller did.
 
Fire Bird said:
They had a psychologist somewhere in the 2000s. Still the same problem. Maybe their issue is perfection. They need to stop focusing on being perfect and learn to win ugly.
Click to expand...

Somehow, they can't focus on these crunch matches. Those run-outs were absolutely silly & unnecessary. It's like brain freeze.
 
Hawkeye said:
Not choking.

Just have poor lower order players who couldn't get the job done. Allrounders aren't good enough, lower order batting is poor.
Click to expand...

SOU indeed needs to review their lower order batting. Morris isn't a no 7, maybe no 8 at best. Phehlukwayo, hot and cold. Parnell has done nothing with the bat.
 
Sami92 said:
Somehow, they can't focus on these crunch matches. Those run-outs were absolutely silly & unnecessary. It's like brain freeze.
Click to expand...
Those run-outs had been happening for a long time.
1. 2011 QF v New Zealand AB run out with Faf
2. 2015 vs India AB run out with Faf
3. today AB run out with Faf
 
For one thing there is no collective intensity there. They don't play as a team. I understand when you do that as a batsman as you are against 11 players. But they do this even while fielding. Remember 2011 world cup. Instead of raising the standard in crunch games they lower their standard. If they play exactly like how they play billateral matches they will sure win.
 
ssuhaide said:
http://m.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/66192.html

A choke which gets overlooked.
Click to expand...

I will one-up you with this one --> http://www.espncricinfo.com/twenty20wc/engine/match/287876.html

Batting 2nd all they needed was make 126 runs to qualify to S/F on net Runrate, did not even need to win that one outright to progrerss. To make matters more interesting they would have knocked out India if they had won. Guess what they did -- crashed out falling 10 runs short of 126 :)))
 
Usually it’s SA’s batting that lets them down. Crumbles under pressure. If you take post 2000s for instance and compare their flashy overall figures to their paltry ICC tourney numbers says it all I think. As a batting unit obviously a significant drop in performance levels across the board there. Whereas if you look at sides which have done quite well in ICC tourneys over the years you would expect to see the exact opposite.


Overall vs top six

d5fbc6bcc7.png



ICC tourneys vs top six

d5fc6737cc.png
 
Sami92 said:
SOU indeed needs to review their lower order batting. Morris isn't a no 7, maybe no 8 at best. Phehlukwayo, hot and cold. Parnell has done nothing with the bat.
Click to expand...

Their top 6 is more than enough not to Choke every time like this. Morirs & Phehlu/Parnell, Rabada are more than handy at 7 to 9 if top order doesn't bolt like this. Today is different, but normally it's their much vaunted top order that flops, while the tail drags the choke.
 
They took too much pressure just like us against india and more they think about more they pressurize.
 
Defeat GETS to SA a lot more than it affects ENG or AUS or such western teams.

Irrespective of whether ans ENG or AUS team is strong or not, when ENG gets defeated, they go "Well boys, that's that", followed by some English humor and some gentlemanly roasting by classy english Pundits.

If AUS losses , like this CT exit, they say "we weren't good enough, thats all !", later sometimes the pundits/coach make some bravado statements (like Boof) , and then they move on and come back stronger.

But usually SA come in, already having made huge calculations and having formed many expectations even before the tourney has begun, simply because of the sheer quality of personnel their system produce . So ANYTHING less than a championship victory seems inadequate for them. This "result-minded" approach , which makes them very clinical in Bilaterals, makes them vulnerable to panic when their calculated/formulated plans start failing . They cannot adapt to circumstances like AUS does so well . Eng had similar issues (not to this extend), but now they've gotten rid of that , just in time as their best LOI team developed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

BouncerGuy
“We are eagerly looking forward to measure ourselves against South Africa, who have always been one of the top sides in the world": Shan Masood
Replies
5
Views
458
Cricket Warrior
Cricket Warrior
BouncerGuy
"It should be just as tough to beat Pakistan at home as it is for the Pakistan team when they go to Australia or South Africa": Aaqib Javed
Replies
11
Views
635
pakfan54588
pakfan54588
The Bald Eagle
Persistent rain forces the abandonment of the group stage match between Australia and South Africa in the ICC Champions Trophy 2025
2
Replies
98
Views
3K
Bhaijaan
Bhaijaan
The Bald Eagle
South Africa (181/3) defeat England (179) comprehensively by 7 wickets to advance to semi-finals of ICC Champions Trophy 2025
2 3 4
Replies
279
Views
6K
BouncerGuy
BouncerGuy
BouncerGuy
India U19s (248/8) overpower South Africa U19s (244/7) by 2 wickets in a thriller to win the first Semi-Final of ICC U19 World Cup 2024
2
Replies
139
Views
4K
Champ_Pal
C
Back
Top