What drives India ahead of Pakistan despite similar corruption woes?

[FearlessRoar]

When we look at how things are going in India and Pakistan, it's hard to ignore the big difference in how they're developing, even though they both have corruption issues to deal with. India's had a bit of a setback in its Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) for 2023, slipping from 85th to 93rd place. Meanwhile, Pakistan's managed to improve a little in the CPI, moving up seven spots to 133rd.

But just looking at corruption doesn't really explain why India is doing so much better in terms of development compared to Pakistan. I think the reason is that India's really been proactive about making changes in how they govern, being clear about their policies, and making smart investments. For instance, India has implemented various governance reforms such as introducing digital platforms for government services, implementing anti-corruption laws, and promoting transparency in public administration. On the other hand, Pakistan's had some trouble managing their money, dealing with governance issues, and they haven't made as many reforms. For example, Pakistan has struggled with fiscal mismanagement, leading to budget deficits and reliance on external borrowing. Additionally, governance issues such as political instability, bureaucratic inefficiencies, and lack of transparency have hindered Pakistan's development efforts.

In your opinion what is the reason that India is developing much faster than Pakistan despite both have corruption issues?

 

[ElRaja]

i have said this in numerous threads, Pakistan problem is not corruption, its anemic growth due to a lack of entrepreneurialism fostered by politicians who self preserve by telling the masses that its the government's job to provide housing, food, jobs, etc. multiple generations poisoned by the pseudo socialism of bhutto.

india is way ahead of Pakistan because the indian south is way more educated, and the banya classes of the eastern seaboard are extremely competent business men who have been allowed to develop private enterprise.

 

[JaDed]

Because generation X (I’m a millennial) of India was more productive than that of Pakistan.
And now it will exponentially improve due to proper digital economy (still far off )

 

[JaDed]

i have said this in numerous threads, Pakistan problem is not corruption, its anemic growth due to a lack of entrepreneurialism fostered by politicians who self preserve by telling the masses that its the government's job to provide housing, food, jobs, etc. multiple generations poisoned by the pseudo socialism of bhutto.

india is way ahead of Pakistan because the indian south is way more educated, and the banya classes of the eastern seaboard are extremely competent business men who have been allowed to develop private enterprise.

India has socialism issues too, always did but BJP and congress technocrats found a way around it.

India has some of the most violent socialist leaders in Asia.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Because generation X (I’m a millennial) of India was more productive than that of Pakistan.
And now it will exponentially improve due to proper digital economy (still far off )

I guess one of the basic issues is that Pakistan has been dealing with terrorism, meanwhile India was focusing on welcoming foreign investment.

 

[JaDed]

I guess one of the basic issues is that Pakistan has been dealing with terrorism, meanwhile India was focusing on welcoming foreign investment.

That’s like my father talking when he would say that in 1990s during Kashmiri and Punjabi issues.
Thats not how it works, economy helps curb terrorism.

Pakistan’s dependency upon US is crazy, and now China.
India has issues trusting Us ans China, Pakistan openly allowed being drones by them.

 

[FearlessRoar]

India has socialism issues too, always did but BJP and congress technocrats found a way around it.

India has some of the most violent socialist leaders in Asia.

And one of those issues is Hindutva ideology, they can scare off investors in the future. This could be one of the reasons that recently India saw a slight decline in the INR to USD exchange rate.

 

[FearlessRoar]

That’s like my father talking when he would say that in 1990s during Kashmiri and Punjabi issues.
Thats not how it works, economy helps curb terrorism.

Pakistan’s dependency upon US is crazy, and now China.

Yes here i have to agree with you. This dependency on USA and China has never let us become independent

 

[JaDed]

And one of those issues is Hindutva ideology, they can scare off investors in the future. This could be one of the reasons that recently India saw a slight decline in the INR to USD exchange rate.

That decline happened across the world, all Asian currencies.
USD is gaining strength as Fed might cut rates.
Hindutva is filled with teachers , that’s why their narrative is strong, the entire RSS is filled with such uncles

Even the dullard Rajnath Singh is Physics major.

 

[FearlessRoar]

That decline happened across the world, all Asian currencies.
USD is gaining strength as Fed might cut rates.
Hindutva is filled with teachers , that’s why their narrative is strong, the entire RSS is filled with such uncles

Even the dullard Rajnath Singh is Physics major.

What is basic goal of BJP in terms of this? And what was that CAA act? Can you tell please because i really don't understand basic about it

 

[JaDed]

What is basic goal of BJP in terms of this? And what was that CAA act? Can you tell please because i really don't understand basic about it

They probably want a nation like Malaysia but with majority being of Dharmic faith only exception are Parsis.

 

[FearlessRoar]

The education system in India is also much better than Pakistan.

 

[FearlessRoar]

They probably want a nation like Malaysia but with majority being of Dharmic faith only exception are Parsis.

Will the CAA act affect the development of India?

 

[Mockingbird]

i have said this in numerous threads, Pakistan problem is not corruption, its anemic growth due to a lack of entrepreneurialism fostered by politicians who self preserve by telling the masses that its the government's job to provide housing, food, jobs, etc. multiple generations poisoned by the pseudo socialism of bhutto.

india is way ahead of Pakistan because the indian south is way more educated, and the banya classes of the eastern seaboard are extremely competent business men who have been allowed to develop private enterprise.

Waah, giving credit to South & East India. What about western India- the financial epicenter of the country?

And where education is concerned, it is not just in South India. Most UPSC (Adminstrative services) rankers are from Bihar. Rajasthan, Gujarat are considered the Chartered Accountancy belt. The whole country invests in education.

 

[Kianig89]

Maruti Suzuki , Thums up, that's where India shifted gears unlike Pakistan who is held ransom in the hands of foreign companies

 

[UP]

Pakistan’s biggest hindrance or problem to growth is the mafia. They are the real enemy. Until they go back to their real duty nothing will change.

 

[Itachi]

And one of those issues is Hindutva ideology, they can scare off investors in the future. This could be one of the reasons that recently India saw a slight decline in the INR to USD exchange rate.

Investors want returns. As long as any product is making money, it doesn't matter what ideology it belongs to.

 

[Varun]

And one of those issues is Hindutva ideology, they can scare off investors in the future. This could be one of the reasons that recently India saw a slight decline in the INR to USD exchange rate.

The rupee will always decline over time. We will always be a net importer.

 

[Red-Indian]

The rupee will always decline over time. We will always be a net importer.

That may be true but at least over the last few years, correlation does not imply causation.

While we're a net importer, we've been net foreign exchange positive over the last few years as evidenced by the steady increase in Forex Reserves which are now on the verge of $700B. the deficit in merchandise balance of trade (which is admittedly huge) is made up by a mix of positive trade balance in services, FDI, FPI and remittances.

I would say the more plausible reason for rupee depreciation versus id the difference in inflation between India and the States and of course the intrinsic store of value strength of the dollar. If you look at the last 5 years, the rupee has depreciated at an annual rate of ~3% which I think is a fair reflection of the difference in inflation rates rates between the two countries. We should be happy with a weaker rupee and the RBI has stepped in at times to buy dollars and weaken the rupee to keep exports competitive.

 

[Red-Indian]

i have said this in numerous threads, Pakistan problem is not corruption, its anemic growth due to a lack of entrepreneurialism fostered by politicians who self preserve by telling the masses that its the government's job to provide housing, food, jobs, etc. multiple generations poisoned by the pseudo socialism of bhutto.

india is way ahead of Pakistan because the indian south is way more educated, and the banya classes of the eastern seaboard are extremely competent business men who have been allowed to develop private enterprise.

You've come pretty close to the mark. One of my previous jobs was to help foreign companies chose a location to set up operations in India. I used to fly all over the place to present to CXOs and I'd created this canned deck that I believe is still in use in the firm in some form or the other.

My pitch was - you have to think of India not as a country but as a continent - I had this jazzy slide which would show countries Physically sized by population that would daze them when they realised India would be much larger than Europe, the Americas and even Africa.

Once they'd understood the magnitude, I would expand the map of India to show the countries that would be a part of this continent. I would have stats on Per Capita income, Human development indicators, Infrastructure assessments etc to clarify.

Malaysia - A small upper middle income country representing a few select districts
Mexico - A strong middle income country representing a few states in West & South India which are pretty manufacturing oriented
Indonesia - An up and coming lower income country against consisting of the remaining states in the West & South with a couple of Northern States thrown in
Bangladesh - Ditto but a step lower
Pakistan - A really struggling lower income country with terrible indicators comprising a lot of the Northern States - you'd be surprised that in several cases, some of the HDIs were lower than Pakistan.
For a nice surprise in the end, and just to show them the scale, I'd throw in an Austria in the end comprising of a few areas of Mumbai, Delhi, Bangalore & Hyderabad.

I'd say there are advantages and disadvantages to investing in each of these countries - infrastructure availability & quality, availability of talent, local markets, supply chain and of course cost of labour but you have to first decide which country you want to invest in and then I can help you.

It went down a treat I can tell you.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Indian govts saved there industries from competition around the world. They helped their industries and private enterprises like Tata, Maruti, Ambani and Adani etc to grow.

Paksitan were way ahead than India in economic growth in 1970s but then came ZAB who destroyed the Pakistan's industrial sector to nationalization.

 

[gani999]

India has always kept its economic sovereignty and independence, even during the darkest of times. It built up an industrial backbone and fostered technical education, and never relied upon grants and handouts from foreign powers. India has also had many communities that fostered entrepreneurship and business building. The problem is that all these factors were kept shackled by socialism till 1991. Once the economy was liberated by PVN and MMS, all the necessary infrastructure to kickstart and grow the economy were already present. So everything just took off.

Pakistan, on the other hand, been surviving on aid/handouts/gifts since it came into existence. It never bothered to build up its own institutions or its economy, other than in some minor areas of agriculture and sporting goods.

The Pakistanis who proudly claim that Pakistan's economy was ahead of India's in the 1960s and 1970s conveniently forget that it was largely due to foreign handouts. Lend a poor man a lot of money and he will be rich while the money lasts. But it will never be sustainable. Once the money runs out, he will be poor again. That's the situation Pakistan is in now.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Imo the Russia-Afghan war really screwed Pakistan. Pakistan trained the Mujahideens in their lands by opening hundreds of Madrassahs. Once the war was over, the religious frenzy people did not go away and pushed Pakistan into extreme religiosity. The image of Pakistan has suffered and with it the foreign investment. This means not many jobs are created and with increasing population, it leads to too many unemployed youth. These youth for identity seek solace in religion. Its a loop that feeds itself.
The cycle needs to be broken. Pakistan has to become a moderate democracy asap. This is something even the extremely conservative Arab countries have realized and they are slowly moving in that direction. Pakistan is still reluctant.

 

[FearlessRoar]

The rupee will always decline over time. We will always be a net importer.

INR: Indian rupee ends higher on foreign, state-run banks’ dollar sales

The Indian rupee closed at 83.2950 against the U.S dollar, up nearly 0.2% compared with its close of 83.4375 in the previous session.

The currency logged a gain of 0.1% week-on-week, rebounding from a record low of 83.4550 hit on Thursday.

Dollar sales picked up after the rupee managed to hold above 83.45 despite a raft of weak global cues, a FX trader at a foreign bank said.

Brent crude oil prices rising above $90 per barrel for the first time since October and hawkish comments from Federal Reserve policymakers weighed early in the session.

But foreign and state-run banks’ dollar sales after the Reserve Bank of India’s (RBI) policy decision helped lift the rupee, traders said.

Stop losses were hit after the currency rose above 83.35, which led to traders exiting long dollar positions, the foreign bank trader said.

Five out of six members of India’s rate-setting committee voted in favour of a pause and for holding the monetary stance at ‘withdrawal of accommodation’.

India’s robust growth prospects provide the central bank the space to remain focused on inflation, RBI Governor Shaktikanta Das said.

Investors now await the U.S. non-farm payrolls report due later on Friday. The U.S. likely added 200,000 jobs in March, according to a Reuters poll of economists.

The dollar index was little changed at 104.2 while Asian currencies were mixed.

The Indian rupee is likely to trade with a modest appreciation bias over the next few sessions, Arnob Biswas, head of foreign exchange research at SMC Global Securities said.

INR: Indian rupee ends higher on foreign, state-run banks' dollar sales

The Indian rupee (INR) rose on Friday, bolstered by dollar sales from foreign and state-run banks and after the Indian central bank kept rates unchanged

arynews.tv

 

[guard]

India has always kept its economic sovereignty and independence, even during the darkest of times. It built up an industrial backbone and fostered technical education, and never relied upon grants and handouts from foreign powers. India has also had many communities that fostered entrepreneurship and business building. The problem is that all these factors were kept shackled by socialism till 1991. Once the economy was liberated by PVN and MMS, all the necessary infrastructure to kickstart and grow the economy were already present. So everything just took off.

Pakistan, on the other hand, been surviving on aid/handouts/gifts since it came into existence. It never bothered to build up its own institutions or its economy, other than in some minor areas of agriculture and sporting goods.

The Pakistanis who proudly claim that Pakistan's economy was ahead of India's in the 1960s and 1970s conveniently forget that it was largely due to foreign handouts. Lend a poor man a lot of money and he will be rich while the money lasts. But it will never be sustainable. Once the money runs out, he will be poor again. That's the situation Pakistan is in now.

After the British left, India inherited a lot of the developed infrastructure, such as railways etc, Pakistan not so much. Hence india always had a head start in that regards. You point about 1991 onwards i agree. Pakistan haa been severely mismanaged and over run with corruption.

 

[Arzy8]

I think it’s disingenuous to describe India’s and Pakistan’s corruption situations as ‘similar’. One is significantly more corrupt on a holistic macro level than the other.

 

[guard]

Imo the Russia-Afghan war really screwed Pakistan. Pakistan trained the Mujahideens in their lands by opening hundreds of Madrassahs. Once the war was over, the religious frenzy people did not go away and pushed Pakistan into extreme religiosity. The image of Pakistan has suffered and with it the foreign investment. This means not many jobs are created and with increasing population, it leads to too many unemployed youth. These youth for identity seek solace in religion. Its a loop that feeds itself.
The cycle needs to be broken. Pakistan has to become a moderate democracy asap. This is something even the extremely conservative Arab countries have realized and they are slowly moving in that direction. Pakistan is still reluctant.

That will never ever happen, why? Because it pays the bills for a lot of people in the chain, also religion can and is used to blackmail peoples ‘obligations’ . Islam’s core tenets preach moderation, in everything. obviously its how individuals perceive that moderation and then there is the ‘scholars’ who will always the uneducated masses. Pakistan is beyond saving imo, just too far gone now it isnt event funny.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Imo the Russia-Afghan war really screwed Pakistan. Pakistan trained the Mujahideens in their lands by opening hundreds of Madrassahs. Once the war was over, the religious frenzy people did not go away and pushed Pakistan into extreme religiosity. The image of Pakistan has suffered and with it the foreign investment. This means not many jobs are created and with increasing population, it leads to too many unemployed youth. These youth for identity seek solace in religion. Its a loop that feeds itself.
The cycle needs to be broken. Pakistan has to become a moderate democracy asap. This is something even the extremely conservative Arab countries have realized and they are slowly moving in that direction. Pakistan is still reluctant.

Is this view based on first hand experience, or just reading articles online? While I agree that most Muslim countries appear to have shifted towards religion at least on surface level since the Iraq wars, I don't see that Pakistan has become more conservative. If anything, with more access to the outside world, it seems Pakistani youth are not so different to the rest of Asia. You could argue that it is in fact India which is moving in the other direction with the strong yearning for hindutva leadership.

 

[Varun]

INR: Indian rupee ends higher on foreign, state-run banks’ dollar sales

The Indian rupee closed at 83.2950 against the U.S dollar, up nearly 0.2% compared with its close of 83.4375 in the previous session.

All this is intraday news. My point is more general: the rupee will always decline against the dollar over time.

 

[ElRaja]

Waah, giving credit to South & East India. What about western India- the financial epicenter of the country?

And where education is concerned, it is not just in South India. Most UPSC (Adminstrative services) rankers are from Bihar. Rajasthan, Gujarat are considered the Chartered Accountancy belt. The whole country invests in education.

got east and west confused, it was a long day.

 

[rickroll]

When we look at how things are going in India and Pakistan, it's hard to ignore the big difference in how they're developing, even though they both have corruption issues to deal with. India's had a bit of a setback in its Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) for 2023, slipping from 85th to 93rd place. Meanwhile, Pakistan's managed to improve a little in the CPI, moving up seven spots to 133rd.

But just looking at corruption doesn't really explain why India is doing so much better in terms of development compared to Pakistan. I think the reason is that India's really been proactive about making changes in how they govern, being clear about their policies, and making smart investments. For instance, India has implemented various governance reforms such as introducing digital platforms for government services, implementing anti-corruption laws, and promoting transparency in public administration. On the other hand, Pakistan's had some trouble managing their money, dealing with governance issues, and they haven't made as many reforms. For example, Pakistan has struggled with fiscal mismanagement, leading to budget deficits and reliance on external borrowing. Additionally, governance issues such as political instability, bureaucratic inefficiencies, and lack of transparency have hindered Pakistan's development efforts.

In your opinion what is the reason that India is developing much faster than Pakistan despite both have corruption issues?

Fantastic topic and I have strong theories for this. Hope to get some free time today from work to be able to share my thoughts.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Fantastic topic and I have strong theories for this. Hope to get some free time today from work to be able to share my thoughts.

Sure, waiting for your views.

 

[rpant_gabba]

After the British left, India inherited a lot of the developed infrastructure, such as railways etc, Pakistan not so much. Hence india always had a head start in that regards.

weren't pakistanis always proud of their infrastcuture with all the funding from US? The claims alwasy was that how much better the roads etc etc are in pakistan compared to India

You point about 1991 onwards i agree. Pakistan haa been severely mismanaged and over run with corruption.

Paksitan was more focussed on military aliances and treaties rather than insitituion building

 

[rpant_gabba]

Indian govts saved there industries from competition around the world. They helped their industries and private enterprises like Tata, Maruti, Ambani and Adani etc to grow.

Paksitan were way ahead than India in economic growth in 1970s but then came ZAB who destroyed the Pakistan's industrial sector to nationalization.

@guard this contradicts your post about lack of infrastructure

 

[big_gamer007]

Two main factors which helped India:

1. English - It helped a lot in terms of getting outsourced work to call centres initially. Once the work in call centres started coming, slowly the big companies realised the power of outsourcing and started outsourcing technical work as well, now Indian IT sector is one of the strongest in the world.

2. Stability - India separates military from government and creates a conducive environment for foreign investors. No company would like to invest in a country where a military coup can happen anytime or terrorist strikes can happen anytime in any major city. Until Pakistan resolved these issues they will never boom economically.

 

[PakLFC]

India gives it's youth open and many more chances to perform. It has built many industries and educational institutions where these people can learn the importance of entrepreneurialism. It has a positive image in the world thanks to it's soft power and a much more tolerant approach towards life. It is all about the image we portray then the world will treat us accordingly. Even though millions of Pakistanis are non religious the world often feels that we know nothing else other than religion or even Cricket. We have built nothing at all for our youth or people to be proud off. Many teachers in Pak school's I hear don't even know how to use a laptop mouse!!. Our obsession with religion often holds us back in other things. In an ever changing world we have to talk to the world in the language they like and understand. We should have invested a lot more in showcasing our indigenous culture instead we show ourselves as Arab wannabee's!. Had we a world class film industry it would have helped us further in propagating what Pakistanis are really like. Despite gaining independence together look at where the Indian film industry stands today compared to our near irrelevant one. This in a microscope tells us the difference between us and them despite their being chronic corruption in both countries.

 

[cricketjoshila]

And one of those issues is Hindutva ideology, they can scare off investors in the future. This could be one of the reasons that recently India saw a slight decline in the INR to USD exchange rate.

Investors don't care about Hindutva or Islam or Christianity or Judaism.

They care about a stable economic returns.

Decline in value to a certain extent helps exports.

 

[cricketjoshila]

People have to look at history and timelines.

India's economic growth started under PVN Rao in 1991 and except a 18 month period continued till 2004 under Vajpayee.

Then the family came back to rule India again. In the initial 3-4 years they reaped the rewards of the previous governments economic reforms. Then it all went pear shaped. Ofcourse they couldn't break the strong fundamentals. But they tried their best.

Thankfully they were removed by the people and India has seen tremendous growth.

Keep the family out of power and economy will do well.

 

[BouncerGuy]

I think India’s progress over Pakistan can be attributed to its robust democratic institutions and economic reforms. Meanwhile, Pakistan’s political instability and economic crises have hindered its growth due to factors known to everyone.

 

[Swashbuckler]

South Asia has extremely low standards, most useless geographic region on the planet. So in the land of the blind, one eyed man will be king.

Never mind East Asian heavyweights like China, Japan, South Korea. Compare India with Vietnam, Thailand, Mexico and things aren't so rosy.

 

[RexRex]

South Asia has extremely low standards, most useless geographic region on the planet. So in the land of the blind, one eyed man will be king.

Never mind East Asian heavyweights like China, Japan, South Korea. Compare India with Vietnam, Thailand, Mexico and things aren't so rosy.

Do you think India would've been in a different position right now if it wasn't for 40 yrs of Nehruvian socialism ?

Legend has it that Nehru requested the US president to send over a reputed economist to organise their young economy in the 1950s. The free-market legend Milton Friedman was sent over but Nehru sent him back with a chastising note 'Give us a central planner !'.

What could've been.

 

[JaDed]

South Asia has extremely low standards, most useless geographic region on the planet. So in the land of the blind, one eyed man will be king.

Never mind East Asian heavyweights like China, Japan, South Korea. Compare India with Vietnam, Thailand, Mexico and things aren't so rosy.

Region wise its

Do you think India would've been in a different position right now if it wasn't for 40 yrs of Nehruvian socialism ?

Legend has it that Nehru requested the US president to send over a reputed economist to organise their young economy in the 1950s. The free-market legend Milton Friedman was sent over but Nehru sent him back with a chastising note 'Give us a central planner !'.

What could've been.

Heed the words of wisdom: Milton Friedman on India in 1955

“A FIVE per cent per annum rate of increase in real national income seems entirely feasible...” If these opening words in a memorandum addressed to the government of India do not impress you, think again: the date on the memorandum is November 5, 1955 and its author is Milton Friedman, the 1976...

www.columbia.edu

Yes, Legend also has it that Shastriji was trying that

 

[Swashbuckler]

Do you think India would've been in a different position right now if it wasn't for 40 yrs of Nehruvian socialism ?

Legend has it that Nehru requested the US president to send over a reputed economist to organise their young economy in the 1950s. The free-market legend Milton Friedman was sent over but Nehru sent him back with a chastising note 'Give us a central planner !'.

What could've been.

Yes, our socialism experiment was a big failure. I blame Nehruvian Congress policies for this.

 

[Mockingbird]

Do you think India would've been in a different position right now if it wasn't for 40 yrs of Nehruvian socialism ?

Legend has it that Nehru requested the US president to send over a reputed economist to organise their young economy in the 1950s. The free-market legend Milton Friedman was sent over but Nehru sent him back with a chastising note 'Give us a central planner !'.

What could've been.

The Nehruvian economy set us back decades. The Congress kept on amassing wealth for itself in the garb of socialism. They promoted an attitude of ‘sab kuch chalta hai’ and monopolistic industrialization with no focus on growth, innovation or service orientation.

What a wasted opportunity that was!

 

[Kianig89]

FDI, India changed their policies towards FDI in early 90s and reaped benefits unlike Pakistan industries become cartel and parasites , take for example IK bought new companies in automobile market such as Changan , MG and Proton to break the monopoly of trio Honda, Suzuki and Toyota, but the political instability and mafia flexing its arms meant a narrow path for new entrants

 

[Champ_Pal]

Is this view based on first hand experience, or just reading articles online? While I agree that most Muslim countries appear to have shifted towards religion at least on surface level since the Iraq wars, I don't see that Pakistan has become more conservative. If anything, with more access to the outside world, it seems Pakistani youth are not so different to the rest of Asia. You could argue that it is in fact India which is moving in the other direction with the strong yearning for hindutva leadership.

Hindutva is not based on religion. It is based on India and Indian civilization first attitude.

No non-pakistani on this forum has ever visited Pakistan. So obviously we get our news from Media outlets. Pakistanis do invoke religion in everything. It is the general perception and with all the news coming out of Pakistan, one can only feel that Pakistani people take their religion very very seriously.

 

[Champ_Pal]

The Nehruvian economy set us back decades. The Congress kept on amassing wealth for itself in the garb of socialism. They promoted an attitude of ‘sab kuch chalta hai’ and monopolistic industrialization with no focus on growth, innovation or service orientation.

What a wasted opportunity that was!

Nehru's regime was a curse for India. The man had no vision. Until 90's, the election slogan was always "Garibi Hatao". Ince 2000's the shift in attitude was clear to see. Its "Shining India" and "India First".

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Hindutva is not based on religion. It is based on India and Indian civilization first attitude.

No non-pakistani on this forum has ever visited Pakistan. So obviously we get our news from Media outlets. Pakistanis do invoke religion in everything. It is the general perception and with all the news coming out of Pakistan, one can only feel that Pakistani people take their religion very very seriously.

If it's not based on religion then why not call it something else like Buddhism?

 

[SportsWarrior]

The rupee will always decline over time. We will always be a net importer.

INR decline is almost fully can be explained by difference in the inflation in US and Indian economy. India has trade deficit but has neutral or surplus in current account. How else do you think the forex reserves has grown consistently? India being a developing economy, with growing young and aspiring population, large part of whom are just graduating toward middle class, will keep inflation considerably higher than USA which is a matured economy. This will continue this way for years unless India overcomes the inflation deficit by expanding its exports tremendously. That is practically not going to happen as we are not the globalization phase anymore. China grew and expanded during peak of globalization while our country was dragged down by family party. Growing same way now is not possible

 

[SportsWarrior]

If it's not based on religion then why not call it something else like Buddhism?

Becasuse most of Indians consider Buddhism as part of dharmic religion. For most budha is just another one of god/guru, one among literally thousands. Heck, I know many hindus who worship Jesus at home like other Hindu gods like below


Even Ramakrishna Mission, does puja to Jesus


As far as most are considered they are just another god in the long list gods. I know multiple family members who are staunch Hindus who pray to all Gods including Jesus and visit Darga

So for most when they say Hindutwa they just mean their way of life and less about religion

 

[rpant_gabba]

Go over to this thread

Indian government ordered killings in Pakistan, intelligence officials claim

Apologies for the long post. Its an interesting read. Allegations of up to 20 assassinations since 2020 follow Canada’s accusation of Delhi role in murders of dissidents The Indian government assassinated individuals in Pakistan as part of a wider strategy to eliminate terrorists living on...

ppforum.pakpassion.net

and some of the post by britistani's and it will tell you exactly why pakistan is out witha begging bowl and selling itself to eh highest bidder

 

[uppercut]

The Nehruvian economy set us back decades. The Congress kept on amassing wealth for itself in the garb of socialism. They promoted an attitude of ‘sab kuch chalta hai’ and monopolistic industrialization with no focus on growth, innovation or service orientation.

What a wasted opportunity that was!

I would still settle for no growth for about 40 yrs but the worst by product of the Nehruvian economy was the normalization of corruption.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Becasuse most of Indians consider Buddhism as part of dharmic religion. For most budha is just another one of god/guru, one among literally thousands. Heck, I know many hindus who worship Jesus at home like other Hindu gods like below
View attachment 143079

Even Ramakrishna Mission, does puja to Jesus
View attachment 143080

As far as most are considered they are just another god in the long list gods. I know multiple family members who are staunch Hindus who pray to all Gods including Jesus and visit Darga

So for most when they say Hindutwa they just mean their way of life and less about religion

What sort of combination is this?And how is it related to the progress of India?

 

[FearlessRoar]

Musk to meet Modi as India woos EV investment​

Tech billionaire Elon Musk said on Wednesday he planned to meet Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, following suggestions the Tesla boss will soon announce major investment plans in the country.

He made the announcement on his social media platform X, without giving a date for his visit.

“Looking forward to meeting Prime Minister Narendra Modi in India,” he wrote. Indian media reported the visit could be in the week of April 22, but there was no official confirmation.

Last month, India cut import taxes on electric vehicles for global automakers committed to investing $500 million and starting local production within three years.

The reduced 15 per cent tax would apply for five years to any imported electric car priced at $35,000 and above, India’s commerce ministry said in a statement at the time.

The move was widely seen as a win for Musk’s Tesla. In 2021 the billionaire, responding to a user on X, said that India’s high import duties had prevented Tesla from launching its cars in the country.

Musk to meet Modi as India woos EV investment

“Looking forward to meeting Prime Minister Narendra Modi in India,” says Musk on X.

www.dawn.com

 

[shortbread]

Pakistan's woes aren't due to corruption!

I repeat, Pakistan's woes aren't due to corruption. Corruption exists everywhere in every country in various forms.

The no.1 problem facing Pakistan is elite capture and the no.2 is short sightedness. The root of both issues comes from the establishment.

 

[FearlessRoar]

India Top Choice For Digital Pursuit, Says Nasscom Report

India remains the top choice for enterprises looking to expand digital services portfolio and companies are expected to increase spending on AI, data analytics and cybersecurity, industry body Nasscom said in a report on Monday.

The report 'Digital Enterprise Maturity 5.0: Digital Readiness in the Era of AI' is based on a survey of 550 enterprises across 11 major sectors and seven major geographical regions.

The survey found that 71 per cent of enterprises in India spent over 20 per cent of their tech spends on digital in 2023.

"Nearly 90 per cent of companies have signalled plans to boost investments in key digital technology areas in 2024, including artificial intelligence (AI)/machine learning (AI/ML), big data analytics, cloud computing, cybersecurity, and intelligent automation," it said.

The report further said the focus is expected to lean more towards cybersecurity by the first half of 2025, as a response to increased adoption of generative AI (gen AI), which has emerged as a prominent technology in 2023.

The advancements in gen AI propelled an increased emphasis on digital talent, Nasscom said, with 83 per cent of enterprises reporting that over 6 per cent of their total workforce was dedicated to digital roles.

The report noted that sectors like BFSI (banking, financial services, and insurance), high-tech, discrete manufacturing, telecom, media and entertainment, as well as energy, utilities, and alternatives are expanding their digital services contracts.

It said India continues to be the preferred outsourcing destination for businesses aiming to build and expand their digital services portfolio, with over "50 per cent of companies in the travel and transportation, telecom, media and entertainment, and construction and engineering sectors choosing it for their outsourcing needs".

At least 47-49 per cent of firms in sectors like telecom, media and entertainment, discrete manufacturing, and energy and utilities outsourced digital services work to their own capability centres in India, it said.

India Top Choice For Digital Pursuit, Says Nasscom Report

The report 'Digital Enterprise Maturity 5.0: Digital Readiness in the Era of AI' is based on a survey of 550 enterprises across 11 major sectors and seven major geographical regions.

www.ndtv.com

 

[Cricket Warrior]

If there were similar levels of corruption, India wouldn't be so far ahead of us today.

They have a leader who is moving forward with a vision but we haven't been able to move out from the influence of leaders like shareefs and Zardari due to mentally enslaved people.

 

[uppercut]

If there were similar levels of corruption, India wouldn't be so far ahead of us today.

I can assure you that this is not entirely true. Most politicians in India are utterly corrupt and there are atleast 10x more politicians in India than in PK.

The only difference these days since Modi is that atleast at the top level in the Central govt the levels of corruption have drastically reduced and the policies implemented are designed to reach and benefit the common man.

Whereas in the past we had governments that were soo corrupt that corruption became a normal thing.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

I can assure you that this is not entirely true. Most politicians in India are utterly corrupt and there are atleast 10x more politicians in India than in PK.

The only difference these days since Modi is that atleast at the top level in the Central govt the levels of corruption have drastically reduced and the policies implemented are designed to reach and benefit the common man.

Whereas in the past we had governments that were soo corrupt that corruption became a normal thing.

This is the benefit you get when your Prime Minister is loyal and committed to the country.

 

[globetrotter]

BJP and Modiji is the difference between India and Pakistan…… Modi government after coming to power in 2014 implemented various systems to curb corruption. For example prior to 2014, under congress rule, whenever aid to be given to affected ppls then it went through many layers of government departments and beurocrates.. if 100 rupees aid is given then affected person gets 10 rupees only, 90 rupees corruption.. Modi government done good job of opening bank accounts of all poor pppls. Now when Aid money to be given then concerned department transfer directly to the account holder…. Therefore no corruption

 

[Mockingbird]

I can assure you that this is not entirely true. Most politicians in India are utterly corrupt and there are atleast 10x more politicians in India than in PK.

The only difference these days since Modi is that atleast at the top level in the Central govt the levels of corruption have drastically reduced and the policies implemented are designed to reach and benefit the common man.

Whereas in the past we had governments that were soo corrupt that corruption became a normal thing.

Actually the problem is the multi-party democratic system. Corruption increases multifold when you don’t have a single party in majority - like it did in the past when big parties would turn a blind eye to the blatant corruption carried out by the regional parties in the guise of support. BJP consolidating the votes and winning majority eliminated that - that’s why the corrupt regional parties hate BJP and Modi. I wish we always had a two party system to begin with.

 

[Red-Indian]

BJP and Modiji is the difference between India and Pakistan…… Modi government after coming to power in 2014 implemented various systems to curb corruption. For example prior to 2014, under congress rule, whenever aid to be given to affected ppls then it went through many layers of government departments and beurocrates.. if 100 rupees aid is given then affected person gets 10 rupees only, 90 rupees corruption.. Modi government done good job of opening bank accounts of all poor pppls. Now when Aid money to be given then concerned department transfer directly to the account holder…. Therefore no corruption

Actually the problem is the multi-party democratic system. Corruption increases multifold when you don’t have a single party in majority - like it did in the past when big parties would turn a blind eye to the blatant corruption carried out by the regional parties in the guise of support. BJP consolidating the votes and winning majority eliminated that - that’s why the corrupt regional parties hate BJP and Modi. I wish we always had a two party system to begin with.

On the contrary, I think Modi and the BJP's main contribution has been to make corruption systematic, predictable and organised. Earlier, the corruption used to be petty, unorganised and utterly unpredictable. If you gave a few crores to a regional party or MP, you wouldn't know if you would get any value for it except general influence. With the BJP, the scaler is larger in hundreds of crores but you know you can get definite government contracts or freedom from prosecution.

Given that corruption is inevitable in a developing country like India, I think business really values this predictability and clarity in the corruption transaction. I do appreciate this so some extent.

 

[globetrotter]

On the contrary, I think Modi and the BJP's main contribution has been to make corruption systematic, predictable and organised. Earlier, the corruption used to be petty, unorganised and utterly unpredictable. If you gave a few crores to a regional party or MP, you wouldn't know if you would get any value for it except general influence. With the BJP, the scaler is larger in hundreds of crores but you know you can get definite government contracts or freedom from prosecution.

Given that corruption is inevitable in a developing country like India, I think business really values this predictability and clarity in the corruption transaction. I do appreciate this so some extent.

Ur views matches are with India alliance views which are nothing but baseless

 

[BouncerGuy]

Corruption is present in every country of this world. It is more prominent in the Asian sub-continent though because these nation have a lot of money going in and out of their system through loans etc especially like Pakistan. There is next to zero accountability in Pakistan and you can easily get away with corruption money if you have power.

 

[Red-Indian]

Ur views matches are with India alliance views which are nothing but baseless

You mean the Congress & gang? I think they claim they're corruption-free and the BJP is very corrupt.

I actually appreciate the BJP for systematising corruption. Much better than the earlier.

Don't know about you personally but although I haven't completely made up my mind, I'm probably going to end up voting for the BJP in my constituency in a week and a half.

 

[globetrotter]

BJP is wanted to eliminate corruption from India and bring transparency… otherwise they wouldn’t demonitized high currency notes…. Also BJP promoting digital payments

 

[JaDed]

On the contrary, I think Modi and the BJP's main contribution has been to make corruption systematic, predictable and organised. Earlier, the corruption used to be petty, unorganised and utterly unpredictable. If you gave a few crores to a regional party or MP, you wouldn't know if you would get any value for it except general influence. With the BJP, the scaler is larger in hundreds of crores but you know you can get definite government contracts or freedom from prosecution.

Given that corruption is inevitable in a developing country like India, I think business really values this predictability and clarity in the corruption transaction. I do appreciate this so some extent.

Lobbying is legal in US..should be legalised in India but we watch too many movies and greed is looked down upon yet ppl with the money are respected.
Land of ironies .

 

[JaDed]

BJP is wanted to eliminate corruption from India and bring transparency… otherwise they wouldn’t demonitized high currency notes…. Also BJP promoting digital payments

They are not saints either like your painting them, the terrible Ambani Adani backing is equally annoying, esp that of Adani and his loans.

 

[globetrotter]

You mean the Congress & gang? I think they claim they're corruption-free and the BJP is very corrupt.

I actually appreciate the BJP for systematising corruption. Much better than the earlier.

Don't know about you personally but although I haven't completely made up my mind, I'm probably going to end up voting for the BJP in my constituency in a week and a half.

If BJP corrupt, we wouldn’t have seen the development happened in last 10 years… India is excelling fast under BJP government…. The allegations of corruption made against BJP in congress ruled state… very famous example is when MVA congress lead government in Maharashtra state in 2019, they alleged corruption against BJP MP Kirit Somaiya, they filed corruption cases against him in high court, but MVA government failed to provide any proof to Mumbai police.. Finally Mumbai police withdrawn cases against kirit Somaiya… what a shame for MVA congress government

 

[globetrotter]

They are not saints either like your painting them, the terrible Ambani Adani backing is equally annoying, esp that of Adani and his loans.

opposition parties angst on Adani and ambanis is such that they don’t want to see Adani, Ambani to born in India, instead they prefer to see Laden, Baghdadi born in India

 

[Red-Indian]

BJP is wanted to eliminate corruption from India and bring transparency… otherwise they wouldn’t demonitized high currency notes…. Also BJP promoting digital payments

I'm not sure whether you're arguing with me or agreeing but despite the disaster that was demonetization, I fully agree that petty corruption has dramatically declined in India.

I remember in the early 00's, I used to have to pay small bribes even to the cop who did passport address verification. None of that in my recent renewal. Similarly in ration, lpg cylinder allocation etc.

You have to appreciate the fact that the friction of petty corruption that used to slow down day to day interactions has been substantially reduced in India in recent years. All of the corruption is at the multi-hundred crore level now. The BJP (and other state governments) take massive bribes but deliver measurable favours to business in return.

 

[Red-Indian]

If BJP corrupt, we wouldn’t have seen the development happened in last 10 years… India is excelling fast under BJP government…. The allegations of corruption made against BJP in congress ruled state… very famous example is when MVA congress lead government in Maharashtra state in 2019, they alleged corruption against BJP MP Kirit Somaiya, they filed corruption cases against him in high court, but MVA government failed to provide any proof to Mumbai police.. Finally Mumbai police withdrawn cases against kirit Somaiya… what a shame for MVA congress government

That's where you're wrong. There's little correlation between development and corruption. For instance, Malaysia saw stupendous growth under the Mahathir Mohammad government but of course just like Modi, he was very authoritarian and very corrupt. The 1MDB corruption scandal is representative of the kind of money that was flying around.

What we have to avoid is petty, small scale corruption in day-to-day stuff that gums up the system in countries like Pakistan. I remember bringing back a couple of cellphones in 2004 and being asked for a bribe by customs. They barely even look at the x-ray for stuff like that anymore.

 

[globetrotter]

That's where you're wrong. There's little correlation between development and corruption. For instance, Malaysia saw stupendous growth under the Mahathir Mohammad government but of course just like Modi, he was very authoritarian and very corrupt. The 1MDB corruption scandal is representative of the kind of money that was flying around.

What we have to avoid is petty, small scale corruption in day-to-day stuff that gums up the system in countries like Pakistan. I remember bringing back a couple of cellphones in 2004 and being asked for a bribe by customs. They barely even look at the x-ray for stuff like that anymore.

In my city when the opposition party ruling in local municipality, every year they were spending crores of rupees on road construction and repairs, but due to high corruption with contractors roads gets spoiled within few months of its construction and repair because contractor was using low quality material……Now BJP in power, they constructed cement tar roads, now past 3 years they are intact and in good conditions…. every year’s corruption cycle is gone now

 

[Vikram1989]

This is the benefit you get when your Prime Minister is loyal and committed to the country.

And not Jailed by you know who

 

[globetrotter]

In his inaugural address on the floor of the National Assembly following the 2024 elections, Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam-F chief and Pakistani Opposition Leader, Maulana Fazlur Rehman drew a sharp contrast with India, asserting, "India is dreaming of becoming a superpower, while we are begging to avoid bankruptcy. Who is responsible for this?" ARY News reported.

He attributed the nation's predicament to unseen forces orchestrating decisions from behind the scenes, reducing elected officials to mere puppets

There are powers behind the walls controlling us, and they make decisions while we are just puppets," he claimed.

Questioning the legitimacy of the current parliament, Rehman accused its members of forsaking principles and "selling democracy," as reported by ARY News.

Expressing dismay over the state of representation in Pakistan, he pondered whether the parliament genuinely reflects the will of the people.

"Governments are formed in palaces and bureaucrats decided who would be the prime minister," he alleged.

"How long will we continue to compromise? How long will we seek help from external forces for being elected as a lawmaker," Maulana Fazl questioned.

He condemned electoral rigging in the 2018 and 2024 elections, denouncing the ascension of purportedly counterfeit representatives to power.

Rehman lamented the perceived powerlessness of lawmakers to enact legislation independently, citing concerns regarding accountability in a nation plagued by insecurity.

"How can our conscience be clear when sitting in this assembly, as both the losers and winners are not satisfied," he questioned.

Accusing the current assemblies of being "sold off," Rehman lamented the presence of individuals lacking allegiance to Pakistan's founding principles in positions of authority.

Highlighting the burden of national debt on every Pakistani, Rehman decried the stagnation plaguing the nation, asserting that such circumstances hinder progress.

"We have made our country a victim of stagnation, such nations cannot progress," he added.

Additionally, Rehman advocated for the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf to be permitted to hold public gatherings, underscoring the importance of democratic rights.

India eyes superpower status as we beg to avoid bankruptcy: Pak Oppn leader

He attributed the nation's predicament to unseen forces orchestrating decisions from behind the scenes, reducing elected officials to mere puppets.

m.rediff.com

 

[JaDed]

Rich of this man to be a critic now, probably the worst politician in Pakistan.
This should be merged to the his thread.

 

[Sherazkhalid]

He needs his permit to sell diesel and he will be quiet, he is only barking as he is left out this time, the biggest munafiq of all. He is as much responsible for our current state as the unseen forces and the powers behind the wall he is lamenting now.

 

[globetrotter]

Rich of this man to be a critic now, probably the worst politician in Pakistan.
This should be merged to the his thread.

Never heard of this leader, his statement is an eye opener for Pakistanis…. It’s very difficult for Pakistani politician to speak good words on India… he shown mirror to ruling Pakistani politicians and ppls of Pakistan

He also acknowledged achievements of BJP government under the leadership of Modiji

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Lol Molvi is never consistent

 

[JaDed]

Never heard of this leader, his statement is an eye opener for Pakistanis…. It’s very difficult for Pakistani politician to speak good words on India… he shown mirror to ruling Pakistani politicians and ppls of Pakistan

He also acknowledged achievements of BJP government under the leadership of Modiji

If you have never heard of this man I can tell you this statement means Zilch.