What exactly is the issue with our batting line-up in New Zealand ODI series?

[Subhan999]

Seems like our batsmen are playing a lot of shots that our mis-timed and come of edges. Historically the best batsmen of the game (Tendulkar, Lara, ponting, kallis etc) had exceptional timing and their strokes came from the middle of the williow. Our boys need to put a price on their wicket and play shots with the meat of the bat.

Nzl batsman playing clean strokes. Pak batsmen shots not coming from the middle. What's the reason for this? Skill and capability? Training? Playing with a straight bat?

Maybe boys need to concentrate hitting boinfaries on the balls that are in their striking zones and try to rotate the strike on balls that are not in their hitting zone?

 

[MenInG]

Eaiser said than done

Am sure that is what they are doing but there is an issue of skills as well

 

[babajee]

We lose the game as soon as Azhar Ali comes out to open. Completely kills all the momentum of the game

 

[badsha001]

Need to play fearless cricket, all batsmen need to watch hassan ali and shadab batting...

 

[pkckt]

Also has to do with their technique and shot selection, they are not used to or well suited to these conditions. Till now I've only seen Fakhar actually play smart and tweak his style of play to the conditions.

 

[MeanAndGreen]

Main reasons are inability to play quick bowling and a lack of clarity in planning.

Essentially the majority your batsmen are a product of your domestic system. These guys play in a system - whether its domestic cricket in Pakistan or home seasons in the UAE - which is simply not conducive to stroke play against pace bowling. They play either on low, slow wickets where the ball doesn’t come onto the bat and the bulk of your score is made up of runs against slow bowling or in domestic cricket, they play on uncovered pitches that resemble a tennis court more than a cricket pitch. When you do bat, its for a short amount of time (its only a matter of time before you get dismissed on these pitches) and its against trundlers which make up the bulk of domestic pacers in Pakistan. Either way, you’re not exposed to speeds over 135kph, and your technique will never be useful on true pitches since you never play on them.

There is also a lack of clarity amongst the batters of how they structure the innings. In the last game, it was clear as daylight that the batters were instructed to see of the new ball (i.e. be watchful in the early overs) and then accelerate as the game progresses. What our management doesn’t realise is that this message is only applicable to opening partnerships such as Warner-Finch, Sharma-Dhawan, Guptill-Munro; guys who are skilled enough to instinctively put away bad balls. Being watchful for these guys simply means defending the good balls and putting away the bad balls. For guys like Azhar-Imam, being watchful means defending almost every ball and hence, we were 3-0 after 4 overs in the last game. Succession of dot balls increases pressure and we know the rest of the story…132-6 after 30 overs. Batsmen like Azhar are much better off being instructed to go hard (i.e. CT final)

What the PAK management need to ask themselves is; if we set out to keep wickets in hand why are we still 132-6 after 30 overs? PAK is fortunate enough to have a deep batting line up. IN the next few games PAK should look to attack right from the get go - the inclusion of Fakhar, Haris and Yamin would be the best way forward.

 

[jaf348]

Main reasons are inability to play quick bowling

They've been terrible against spin as well. Santner had figures of 1 for 34 for his 10 overs in the last game. Sarfaraz who a few years ago was one of the best batsmen against spin appears to have had a lobotomy with regards to his recent performances with the bat.

The fact of the matter is no matter of chopping, changing or playing musical chairs will change the outcome of this series. The fans are completely deluded for thinking otherwise. This is no longer the 90s when Pak used to bully NZ, this is a very strong and well rounded NZ side. With the exception of Hasan Ali and possibly Amir, how many of of Pak's team would actually get into this NZ side?

 

[MeanAndGreen]

They've been terrible against spin as well. Santner had figures of 1 for 34 for his 10 overs in the last game. Sarfaraz who a few years ago was one of the best batsmen against spin appears to have had a lobotomy with regards to his recent performances with the bat.

The fact of the matter is no matter of chopping, changing or playing musical chairs will change the outcome of this series. The fans are completely deluded for thinking otherwise. This is no longer the 90s when Pak used to bully NZ, this is a very strong and well rounded NZ side. With the exception of Hasan Ali and possibly Amir, how many of of Pak's team would actually get into this NZ side?

Their struggles against spin in the last game were due to the pressure enforced by the pacers. They try to overcompensate against spinners ; think about it, if you have a SR of <50 against pace bowling, the only way your gonna reach 280-300 is by trying to blast spinners out of the attack every over. With this approach, sooner or later your gonna be caught out in the deep or stumped a la Malik, Sarfraz.

 

[pakistani pride]

LOL at the theory about they cant play pace bowling. When did Malik ever play good against pace? Never!

Azhar is not suited to the LOI format and hafeez is a minnow basher.

Thats already 3 batsmen out of place in the team.

Players like Fakhar, Sharjeel, babar, shadab, faheem etc. Come from the same crap domestic system amd CAN play pace.

Its time the so called seniors are booted out.

 

[MeanAndGreen]

LOL at the theory about they cant play pace bowling. When did Malik ever play good against pace? Never!

Azhar is not suited to the LOI format and hafeez is a minnow basher.

Thats already 3 batsmen out of place in the team.

Players like Fakhar, Sharjeel, babar, shadab, faheem etc. Come from the same crap domestic system amd CAN play pace.

Its time the so called seniors are booted out.

In a population of 180 million of course some players will stand out and be able to attack quick bowling. Only 2 of the guys you mentioned are established Top 6 batters and have scored runs in NZL, ENG, AUS. Mentioning a few anomalies shouldn't justify a faulty system that is struggling to produce quality ODI batsmen for Pakistan.

I'm talking about the large majority of domestic batters. If we had a strong system in place, there'd be several batters available to replace Azhar, Hafeez, Sarfraz, Malik. Look at India ; guys like KL Rahul, Ajynkya Rahane, Manish Pandey (ODI hundred in AUS chasing 300) are sitting on the bench. Look at England; replaced their 2015 WC team man to man in a couple of months. The fact that Malik and Hafeez (both players from a previous generation) can still find a place in this ODI side is a testament to the batters being produced by our domestic system.

Since Tendulkar/Sehwag retired from ODIs there isn't a single player from their generation playing ODI cricket for India. Same for AUS since Ponting retired and same for SA since Kallis retired. Our batters at domestic level are simply not good enough against genuine pace bowling. Even this year, Sohaib Maqsood is topping domestic ODI charts - the same guy who couldn't get bat on ball against Morkel in the 2015 WC

 

[ads101]

Need to lengthen the batting line up by including a batsman at 7 and fahim down as 3rd pacer (or dropped). If we dont have great batsmen in our line up, we have to comprimise and play a longer batting line up. Ideally id want someone like an umar akmal or maqsood down at 7, giving us some batting insurance. But neither are in form/fit atm. Less pressure on the guys up top when your batting line up is long. We have enough fifth bowler options, use part timers if we dont have a class 5th bowling option who doesnt weaken our batting line up.

Sarfraz needs to lose weight. His game is based on rotating strike and picking up singles. If hes struggling to run its going to hamper him.

Azhar isnt cut out for ODIs. He cant accelerate once set and just doesnt have the shots. He didnt turn a corner in CT he played slow yet again compared to his team mates. Our best player against the new ball its just he cant score at the rate needed for ODIs (and gets himself out trying to).

Hafeez looks shaky these days and we need to probably move on. Haris should come in, and other batsmen like saad ali, usman etc should at least be in the squad so we have options.

A left right combo would be best at top if possible. Promoting Babar to open and including Haris might solve that. Harder to let bowlers settle with right-left than left-left.

We need to get the best out of our players too. too many batsmen regress fast after initial success in international cricket. Need to make sure flaws are worked on and of course they stay fit and dont get fat. We’ve tried a lot of batsmen over the last ten years and a lot of them were talented enough i feel, so we have to address why players like that did regress and rectify this. It is encouraging however that the new guys like Babar and Fakhar dont seem to be regressing like the past as of yet a la jamshed, umar, maqsood etc.

 

[jaf348]

Their struggles against spin in the last game were due to the pressure enforced by the pacers. They try to overcompensate against spinners ; think about it, if you have a SR of <50 against pace bowling, the only way your gonna reach 280-300 is by trying to blast spinners out of the attack every over. With this approach, sooner or later your gonna be caught out in the deep or stumped a la Malik, Sarfraz.

Even against spin they struggle to rotate the strike. Santner bowled 41 dot balls out of 60. It's always dot, dot, dot, 4, dot, etc. When a wicket falls while the sensible approach would be to play low risk strokes for a few overs, it's vitally important to have the scoreboard ticking by getting singles and doubles.

 

[Aman]

Santner is underrated, I believe he's top 10. He's an intelligent bowler who can contain and build pressure up and force mistakes.

Santner and Sodhi were even difficult for the Indian batsmen, and they're probably the best players of spin in LOIs.

 

[Markhor]

A lot of the reasons are mentioned in this thread where our ODI batting worries is disccused in depth: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?268184-Pakistan-s-mediocre-ODI-batting-line-up

The makeup of the side is such that we've only one powerhitter in the top six in Zaman. If he's injured or fails, inevitably you create pressure on the middle order (who are accumulators rather than explosive batsmen) to hit out and they look uncomfortable doing so.

If you had one more explosive opener to partner Zaman, then it takes the pressure off the middle order and allows them to play more naturally.

Also, powerhitting is a skill in itself. I remember the hoots of laughter when England hired a baseball coach to help them with boundary hitting before the 2015 ODI series in UAE. When they beat us 3-1 there wasn't much laughing then.

Someone like a Julian Wood should work with the batsmen for a few weeks or at the NCA with the youngsters but PCB don't tend to think outside the box.

 

[paklvr_82]

Whats the issue? Only one

defensive mindset of the batting side and all the bad things follow. Out of the 50 overs play 30 overs as dots. Bat pathetically slow making NZ job easier who are not even playing full strength team like Milne or Matt Henry. No partnerships, all the partnerships are being by our youngsters in lower middle order. Minus FAkhar most of these top and middle order losers fold under 80 runs, a really pathetic picture. Senior losers are helping players like Santner and Southee make a comeback who are bashed by most of the top 5 opposition around the world.

Sadly, all these senior stalwarts have made numerous tours to NZ and play with a test match technique.
Inzamam has selected the squad to not allow any replacement to these losers Hafeez, Azhar, MAlik and Azam.

The only option is to let the young guns of our team being promoted and allowed to play their natural game. When you have taken Yamin and Sohail in the squad better give them the game. Attacking Kiwis from the start is the only way to break them. Malik or Azam should be dropped. If any of them play then Sarfaraz does'nt deserve to be captain who can't take bold decisions.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

look at the top 6 and see who can score at a decent pace. The answer is only one in fakhar...... There lies the problem.

 

[lonex]

Main reasons are inability to play quick bowling and a lack of clarity in planning.

Essentially the majority your batsmen are a product of your domestic system. These guys play in a system - whether its domestic cricket in Pakistan or home seasons in the UAE - which is simply not conducive to stroke play against pace bowling. They play either on low, slow wickets where the ball doesn’t come onto the bat and the bulk of your score is made up of runs against slow bowling or in domestic cricket, they play on uncovered pitches that resemble a tennis court more than a cricket pitch. When you do bat, its for a short amount of time (its only a matter of time before you get dismissed on these pitches) and its against trundlers which make up the bulk of domestic pacers in Pakistan. Either way, you’re not exposed to speeds over 135kph, and your technique will never be useful on true pitches since you never play on them.

There is also a lack of clarity amongst the batters of how they structure the innings. In the last game, it was clear as daylight that the batters were instructed to see of the new ball (i.e. be watchful in the early overs) and then accelerate as the game progresses. What our management doesn’t realise is that this message is only applicable to opening partnerships such as Warner-Finch, Sharma-Dhawan, Guptill-Munro; guys who are skilled enough to instinctively put away bad balls. Being watchful for these guys simply means defending the good balls and putting away the bad balls. For guys like Azhar-Imam, being watchful means defending almost every ball and hence, we were 3-0 after 4 overs in the last game. Succession of dot balls increases pressure and we know the rest of the story…132-6 after 30 overs. Batsmen like Azhar are much better off being instructed to go hard (i.e. CT final)

What the PAK management need to ask themselves is; if we set out to keep wickets in hand why are we still 132-6 after 30 overs? PAK is fortunate enough to have a deep batting line up. IN the next few games PAK should look to attack right from the get go - the inclusion of Fakhar, Haris and Yamin would be the best way forward.

I know it will sound stupid, but I suggest reverse the batting order. Let these accumulators come after Shadab and Faheem. Hassan should be either kept at the end or brought after these two fall given the situation of the match.

 

[Sajjad-007]

Is Fakhar Zaman playing the 3rd odi?