What would be the difference in match results if India had Nathan Lyon and Australia had R Ashwin?

[KP From India]

What would be the differance in two teams performance if Ashwin and Lyon swapped their teams?
Discuss.

 

[Junaids]

Actually that’s not the real issue.

The real issue is that Bumrah and Shami and Ishant and Yadav are making the age-old Asian mistake in Australia and pitching 6 inches too short.

Like Amir.

If they increase their length they win 3-1.

 

[Robert]

Loving your troll work of late [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]. Really subtle and really effective.

 

[Oligochaetes]

Batting is the real issue. You cant expect Pujara and Kohli is score all the runs. The others need to contribute. Yeh.. Rahul..Vijay..Pant..Rahane.. Vihari.. Talkin bout u!

 

[jagatk]

Given Ashwin's team won the game he played in and then the Captain Brainless decided to pick 4 seamers I would say not much.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Not sure why people are having a constant go at Ashwin.

Yes he wasn't as good as Lyon and screwed up in Southampton (injury) and is a bit lacking in rev skills. He deserves blame for his sub-par performance.

But in this series, if you look at the context of Ashwin's performance, he was one of the biggest reasons India won the Adelaide test. Yes, he didn't land the killer blow in the 2nd innings but he singlehandedly controlled the first innings of Aussies.

5 out of his 6 wickets were batsmen's wickets. All super crucial wickets. Even the final tail wicket was crucial as Aussies had come way too close for comfort.

If you look at Lyon's wickets in the first test:

First innings: Rohit, Pant
Second innings: Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Rohit, Pant, Shami

Second test:

First innings: Rahane, Pant, Shami, Ishant, Bumrah
Second innings: Vijay, Kohli, Pant

---

17 wickets he has taken in the series uptil now.

Out of which 10 were Rohit (useless), Pant (throws his wicket like a maniac) and hopeless tail.

And I am NOT even including Rahane who is awful against spin cos I am consider him a proper bat.

This isn't to say Ashwin is equal or better than Lyon but we have played like IDIOTS to Lyon giving him a min of 2-3 pie wickets every match.

Contrast that to Aussie tail which is not only skilled but also fights till the end.

Lyon has undoubtedly been the superior spinner but if people think that had the roles been reversed, he would have weaved magic and Ashwin flopped against Indian lineup, they aren't seeing the full picture.

Ashwin would have cleaned up our hopeless tail every single time. And he would have had laddoo wickets of Rohit, Rahane and Pant to feast on too.

 

[Swashbuckler]

[MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] has sealed the thread in style, perfectly put. Irrational hate for Ashwin by some posters here.

 

[Saurav]

Not sure why people are having a constant go at Ashwin.

Yes he wasn't as good as Lyon and screwed up in Southampton (injury) and is a bit lacking in rev skills. He deserves blame for his sub-par performance.

But in this series, if you look at the context of Ashwin's performance, he was one of the biggest reasons India won the Adelaide test. Yes, he didn't land the killer blow in the 2nd innings but he singlehandedly controlled the first innings of Aussies.

5 out of his 6 wickets were batsmen's wickets. All super crucial wickets. Even the final tail wicket was crucial as Aussies had come way too close for comfort.

If you look at Lyon's wickets in the first test:

First innings: Rohit, Pant
Second innings: Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Rohit, Pant, Shami

Second test:

First innings: Rahane, Pant, Shami, Ishant, Bumrah
Second innings: Vijay, Kohli, Pant

---

17 wickets he has taken in the series uptil now.

Out of which 10 were Rohit (useless), Pant (throws his wicket like a maniac) and hopeless tail.

And I am NOT even including Rahane who is awful against spin cos I am consider him a proper bat.

This isn't to say Ashwin is equal or better than Lyon but we have played like IDIOTS to Lyon giving him a min of 2-3 pie wickets every match.

Contrast that to Aussie tail which is not only skilled but also fights till the end.

Lyon has undoubtedly been the superior spinner but if people think that had the roles been reversed, he would have weaved magic and Ashwin flopped against Indian lineup, they aren't seeing the full picture.

Ashwin would have cleaned up our hopeless tail every single time. And he would have had laddoo wickets of Rohit, Rahane and Pant to feast on too.

Nicely put

My only issue is I don't think he's even the best spinner in the team

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Not sure why people are having a constant go at Ashwin.

Yes he wasn't as good as Lyon and screwed up in Southampton (injury) and is a bit lacking in rev skills. He deserves blame for his sub-par performance.

But in this series, if you look at the context of Ashwin's performance, he was one of the biggest reasons India won the Adelaide test. Yes, he didn't land the killer blow in the 2nd innings but he singlehandedly controlled the first innings of Aussies.

5 out of his 6 wickets were batsmen's wickets. All super crucial wickets. Even the final tail wicket was crucial as Aussies had come way too close for comfort.

If you look at Lyon's wickets in the first test:

First innings: Rohit, Pant
Second innings: Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Rohit, Pant, Shami

Second test:

First innings: Rahane, Pant, Shami, Ishant, Bumrah
Second innings: Vijay, Kohli, Pant

---

17 wickets he has taken in the series uptil now.

Out of which 10 were Rohit (useless), Pant (throws his wicket like a maniac) and hopeless tail.

And I am NOT even including Rahane who is awful against spin cos I am consider him a proper bat.

This isn't to say Ashwin is equal or better than Lyon but we have played like IDIOTS to Lyon giving him a min of 2-3 pie wickets every match.

Contrast that to Aussie tail which is not only skilled but also fights till the end.

Lyon has undoubtedly been the superior spinner but if people think that had the roles been reversed, he would have weaved magic and Ashwin flopped against Indian lineup, they aren't seeing the full picture.

Ashwin would have cleaned up our hopeless tail every single time. And he would have had laddoo wickets of Rohit, Rahane and Pant to feast on too.

Rahane was the most in-control against Lyon at Adelaide.

Speaking of poor players of spin, Ashwin is bowling to arguably the worst.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Australia would not be able to deal with the bounce and spit Lyon was getting.

 

[rhony]

Then Indian batsmen would struggle against Ashwin. Dont forget that this lot failed against Moeen of all people. Gone are the days when Indian batsmen were excellent against spin. 2 games and two fifers for Lyon in Australian conditions. Lyon bowled beautifully but Indian batsmen were inept as well.

 

[The Viper]

The bigger problem was the openers contribution. How about swapping Aus and Ind openers contribution for the second test.

 

[Hasan123]

Ashwin could have made a difference but it's a difficult 1 to answer if the result would have been different. Australian batsmen showed a lot of patience.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Rahane was the most in-control against Lyon at Adelaide.

Speaking of poor players of spin, Ashwin is bowling to arguably the worst.

Who are the great players of spin Lyon bowled to which Ashwin didn't?

Rahul and Vijay barely lasted to tackle Lyon.

Rohit, Pant and tail just throw away the wickets. Literally free wickets.

Rahane is awful against spin usually barring an odd innings where he plays them well.

So Lyon bowled to 2 great players of spin Pujara and Kohli... And I am using "great" pretty loosely here.

Pujara is the only great while Kohli merely appears great compared to the comedy that is his peers., He is pretty average compared to the yesteryear bats against spin.

So yes, Lyon bowled against 2 solid bats but at the same time had tons of garbage to feast on.

How did he perform against these 2?

1. He never got them out in first innings of either test.

2. He got them out in second innings of first test once India got enough lead to win.

3. Third test he got Kohli out in 2nd innings.

---

Hope my post is not misconstrued as nitpicking.

Lyon bowled great but this myth that he took down a great spin playing lineup is just a myth.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Who are the great players of spin Lyon bowled to which Ashwin didn't?

Rahul and Vijay barely lasted to tackle Lyon.

Rohit, Pant and tail just throw away the wickets. Literally free wickets.

Rahane is awful against spin usually barring an odd innings where he plays them well.

So Lyon bowled to 2 great players of spin Pujara and Kohli... And I am using "great" pretty loosely here.

Pujara is the only great while Kohli merely appears great compared to the comedy that is his peers., He is pretty average compared to the yesteryear bats against spin.

So yes, Lyon bowled against 2 solid bats but at the same time had tons of garbage to feast on.

How did he perform against these 2?

1. He never got them out in first innings of either test.

2. He got them out in second innings of first test once India got enough lead to win.

3. Third test he got Kohli out in 2nd innings.

---

Hope my post is not misconstrued as nitpicking.

Lyon bowled great but this myth that he took down a great spin playing lineup is just a myth.

In comparison to India, the Australian lineup is far worse. I don't think there's anyone claiming this Indian lineup to be mythical players of spin.

 

[cricketindiafan]

Actually that’s not the real issue.

The real issue is that Bumrah and Shami and Ishant and Yadav are making the age-old Asian mistake in Australia and pitching 6 inches too short.

Like Amir.

If they increase their length they win 3-1.

On Day 1 at Perth, in the first session, our bowlers actually were too full n which turned into a lot of half volleys. Corrected the length for the rest of the first innings and the 3rd innings on day 3. As per a CricViz analysis which was quoted on Sony Six by Mark Butcher, there were some 40 false shots (their analysis says a wicket falls every 12 false shots, we were not that lucky).

Wasting the new ball in the first session on day 1 was what killed us the most.

 

[cricketindiafan]

On topic, if Lyon and Ashwin swapped their places, Australia would have won in India and UAE a lot more. India OTOH, with Lyon, would keep winning in Asia, WI and the struggles in Eng, SA and Aus would continue.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

In comparison to India, the Australian lineup is far worse. I don't think there's anyone claiming this Indian lineup to be mythical players of spin.

On paper definitely. Indian lineup looks wayyy better.

On paper, Vijay, Rahul, Pujara, Kohli Rahane...with a lower order of Pant (attacker) and Ashwin (support bat) sounds intimidating.

But reality is different.

Aus bats fought much better this series. They have no tail. Even their number 11 Hazlewood was fighting hard.

India on the other hand would be 10-2 at the top. And 10-4 at the bottom. That's like 6 wickets on a platter.

 

[cricketworm]

I think we struggle against Offie since Sehwag retired. Lyon has 4. 4 five for against India in Australia. And Lyon’s next best is against England. 1 five for. And guess what 3 in India. That makes it 7 vs India out of 14 in Total.

We need to decode Lyon as soon as possible.

 

[Adijazz1706]

I think we struggle against Offie since Sehwag retired. Lyon has 4. 4 five for against India in Australia. And Lyon’s next best is against England. 1 five for. And guess what 3 in India. That makes it 7 vs India out of 14 in Total.

We need to decode Lyon as soon as possible.

Add in England to the list

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

On topic, if Lyon and Ashwin swapped their places, Australia would have won in India and UAE a lot more. India OTOH, with Lyon, would keep winning in Asia, WI and the struggles in Eng, SA and Aus would continue.

UAE is nothing like India. In India, both Ashwin and Jadeja get very spinner friendly tracks, but that's been said a thousand times, even by likes of Harbhajan etc.

 

[Slog]

Not sure why people are having a constant go at Ashwin.

Yes he wasn't as good as Lyon and screwed up in Southampton (injury) and is a bit lacking in rev skills. He deserves blame for his sub-par performance.

But in this series, if you look at the context of Ashwin's performance, he was one of the biggest reasons India won the Adelaide test. Yes, he didn't land the killer blow in the 2nd innings but he singlehandedly controlled the first innings of Aussies.

5 out of his 6 wickets were batsmen's wickets. All super crucial wickets. Even the final tail wicket was crucial as Aussies had come way too close for comfort.

If you look at Lyon's wickets in the first test:

First innings: Rohit, Pant
Second innings: Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Rohit, Pant, Shami

Second test:

First innings: Rahane, Pant, Shami, Ishant, Bumrah
Second innings: Vijay, Kohli, Pant

---

17 wickets he has taken in the series uptil now.

Out of which 10 were Rohit (useless), Pant (throws his wicket like a maniac) and hopeless tail.

And I am NOT even including Rahane who is awful against spin cos I am consider him a proper bat.

This isn't to say Ashwin is equal or better than Lyon but we have played like IDIOTS to Lyon giving him a min of 2-3 pie wickets every match.

Contrast that to Aussie tail which is not only skilled but also fights till the end.

Lyon has undoubtedly been the superior spinner but if people think that had the roles been reversed, he would have weaved magic and Ashwin flopped against Indian lineup, they aren't seeing the full picture.

Ashwin would have cleaned up our hopeless tail every single time. And he would have had laddoo wickets of Rohit, Rahane and Pant to feast on too.

This is hands down one of the posts of the month.