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"Whenever an Aurangzeb comes along, a Shivaji rises" : PM Modi

MenInG

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Inaugurating the Kashi Vishwanath Dham corridor, Narendra Modi presented the project - and by extension, his Prime Ministership - as an intervention in a centuries-old conflict. "Whenever an Aurangzeb comes along, a Shivaji rises. For every Salar Masud, there is a Suheldev." Leave aside the fact that Salar Masud and Suheldev belong more securely to legend than verifiable history. The history of Kashi was framed as a battle between good Hindu kings and evil Muslim ones.

In Varanasi, the Prime Minister was self-evidently in campaign mode. He was, in effect, asking the voters of Uttar Pradesh to be more concerned about the events of the eleventh and seventeenth centuries than those of 2021.

Six months ago, UP, like the rest of India, was overwhelmed by the Delta variant. In July, Arvind Subramanian, Chief Economic Adviser in Modi's first term, estimated that the true Covid death toll in India was between 3 and 4.7 million. He cited UP as a state whose official death count from the second wave appeared egregiously inaccurate.

No state government emerged with credit from the second wave. But the UP government's response went well beyond negligence. Not only did the government insist, against all evidence, that there was no shortage of oxygen in any UP hospital, but it threatened action against hospitals that admitted a shortage. As recently as last week, UP Health Minister Jai Pratap Singh declared that not a single death in the state was attributable to a shortage of oxygen. The message to voters: forget about our failure to prevent the deaths of your loved ones, what really matters is getting even with Aurangzeb.

It is not that Modi's recent speeches - or Adityanath's - consist merely of attacks on long-dead Muslim kings. Plenty of time is spent talking about infrastructure investment and welfare schemes. But the anti-Muslim dog whistles - "Abba jaan", "kabristan" - are never long in coming.

Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath

It will be objected that this kind of description is insensitive to Hindu feeling in Varanasi and elsewhere, that the wounds of the seventeenth century are unhealed, and that as long as a single mosque stands on land that may once have been a temple, they will remain so.

Perhaps the most persistent quarrel in Indian historiography concerns the long-term roots of Indian secularism. On one account, secularism is a Western construct artificially imposed on a population whose true desire is a Hindu Rashtra (euphemistically, a "civilisational state"), and Hindu society is, in Naipaul's phrase, a "wounded civilisation" psychologically yet to recover from Muslim rule. On another, Indian (or at least north Indian) culture is composite, and Hindus and Muslims broadly got along before the arrival of the British.

A third camp, consisting primarily of liberal opponents of Hindutva, have argued that exaggerated narratives of Hindu-Muslim harmony have helped feed the rise of the BJP. A generation ago, Dharma Kumar wrote that the authors of such narratives had "drain[ed] Indian history of much of its meaning." More recently, Kapil Komireddi has accused such "well-meaning distortions" of "infantilising" Indians and allowing the Hindu right to claim that the secular project rests on a bed of lies.

It is difficult to dispute that, on left and right, history-writing has all too often been at the service of political objectives. A politically-neutral reading of our history turns up countless examples of bigotry, suspicion and violence, as well as peaceful coexistence and cultural fusion. The political question is thus not "what sort of society are we" but "what sort of society do we want to be?"

Like the question, "What sort of person do I want to be?", this presupposes a range of outcomes, rather than destiny, and the agency to achieve a better outcome. The essence of all democratic politics is the belief that we can collectively make the future, for good or bad.

Even the strength of anti-Aurangzeb feeling among the contemporary Hindus of Uttar Pradesh is substantially the product of politics. A detailed account of this process is contained in Jugalbandi, Vinay Sitapati's recent history of the BJP. As Sitapati shows, the RSS has always been distinctive within Hindu society for the extent and intensity of its obsession with Muslims. The idea that a UP election should be about settling scores with the past is not an inevitability, but an achievement, of a rather grim kind.

In any case, it is senseless to pretend that the grievance voiced by BJP leaders and supporters is actually against Aurangzeb. The real targets are India's 200 million Muslims, a community that, by virtually every metric, is at or near the bottom of the hierarchies of social, economic and political power.

If you want to know how far removed our world is from Aurangzeb's, consider this. In the 40 years since AR Antulay's resignation as Chief Minister of Maharashtra, not one Muslim has been elected Chief Minister of a Hindu-majority state. There are nearly 30 million voting-age Muslims in Uttar Pradesh. Aurangzeb himself is about as likely to become Chief Minister as any of the 30 million.

Those who respond to this fact by citing the absence of Hindu Chief Ministers of Jammu and Kashmir, or Hindu Prime Ministers of Pakistan/Bangladesh/Sri Lanka, give the game away. Whataboutery of this kind is ultimately an expression of defeatism about one's own country, a deployment of the failures of others in pursuit of lower aspirations for ourselves.

"I recognise no limits to my aspiration for our motherland," wrote Gopal Krishna Gokhale. Behind whataboutery is the view that we are condemned to be like this only, that we should not aim to better ourselves, or be better than others.

In his two-volume history of Indian philosophy, S. Radhakrishnan argued that Hinduism's greatest strength was its capacity for improvement: as society progressed, so did religion. But this was not an inevitable process; it all depends upon the uses we put Hinduism to. He ended his history with a warning: "Indian philosophy acquires a meaning and a justification for the present only if it advances and ennobles life."

Opposition parties have responded to the BJP's anti-Muslim grievance politics in four ways.

1) What is often called "soft Hindutva" but may be more accurately labelled "competitive Hindutva"

2) Attempting to reclaim "Hinduism" from "Hindutva"

3) Aggressively defending secularism and Hindu-Muslim harmony

4) Playing on their own turf, rather than the BJP's.

1) is morally contemptible and politically useless. 2) is at best misguided. Most parties now lack the courage to attempt 3). In the long run, 2) and 3) constitute the vital work that we collectively have to do for the Republic to remain viable. But our present political parties are not fit for the task. The BJP's success in proliferating Hindutva is inseparable from the fact that it is a political party attached to a social movement. Most of its opponents are political parties attached to family businesses.

That leaves 4), which brings us back to the question of whether the UP election should be about the 17th century or the present day. 4) involves focusing not on the issues in which voters place greater faith in the BJP (religion, national security, corruption, the personal reputation of Narendra Modi), but on issues like inflation, unemployment, the farm laws, and the government's handling of Covid.

Akhilesh Yadav has chosen 4). The UP election will be one in which voters are not choosing between two different sets of answers to the same questions, but between two different sets of questions.

https://www.ndtv.com/opinion/akhile...shava-guha-2666856#pfrom=home-ndtv_topstories
 
Modi the hate merchant.

Bhai.. vote keliey kuch bhi Karega. I would much rather have him spread hate in his own country then try and take panga with us like last time. But the tea will be ready along with nihari and paye if needed.
 
Elections are around so bigot is resorting to his tried, tested and perfected bigotry.
 
Shows how much work Bisht in last 5 years and bigot himself in 7.5 years have done that they still have to resort to Aurangzeb who is dead for 315 years now.
 
Its accepted history that Aurangzeb destroyed the Vishweshwar temple in Benares and built the gyanvapi mosque over it. Different historians have given different reasons for it but almost all agree that the temple was destroyed and a mosque built over it.

Later Rani Ahilyabai Holkar, a maratha queen whose family rose to kingship under Shivaji and his descendants constructed the present temple adjacent to the mosque.

Shivaji ofcourse is known for his opposition and rebellion against Aurangzeb.

So what's wrong if Modi repeated what happened in history?

Acceptance of islam as part of Indian culture is one thing, but that doesn't mean accepting what the bigoted tyrannical invaders did. Islam arrived in India via arab traders in present day Kerala. I don't see anyone saying anything about them.

Nor do i see christians opposing or having any griveance when Christian colonists like Brits or Portugese are routinely portrayed as villains or looters in our history.

Islam and muslims of India are different from muslim invaders. They are not one and the same. Criticism of the deeds of these invaders is not criticizing islam.
 
Its accepted history that Aurangzeb destroyed the Vishweshwar temple in Benares and built the gyanvapi mosque over it. Different historians have given different reasons for it but almost all agree that the temple was destroyed and a mosque built over it.

Later Rani Ahilyabai Holkar, a maratha queen whose family rose to kingship under Shivaji and his descendants constructed the present temple adjacent to the mosque.

Shivaji ofcourse is known for his opposition and rebellion against Aurangzeb.

So what's wrong if Modi repeated what happened in history?

Acceptance of islam as part of Indian culture is one thing, but that doesn't mean accepting what the bigoted tyrannical invaders did. Islam arrived in India via arab traders in present day Kerala. I don't see anyone saying anything about them.

Nor do i see christians opposing or having any griveance when Christian colonists like Brits or Portugese are routinely portrayed as villains or looters in our history.

Islam and muslims of India are different from muslim invaders. They are not one and the same. Criticism of the deeds of these invaders is not criticizing islam.

Well played with the words to hide the bigotry of hindutva

Islam and Muslims of India are different from Muslim conquerors of India, of course, they are.

But, in India, current Muslims are marginalized, turn into boogeyman and some how they have to pay for their ancestor to reverting to Islam.

While majority of India can destroy and build whatever they wish to, or changed the street names to make it sound more 'Hindu' but as it almost universally the case in South Asia, that has to be built upon marginalizing and bigotry against the minority.

Christian and Portuguese are at times portrayed as villain for invading and stealing and not for converting the locals to their religion neither the current generation are punished for it either.
 
Its accepted history that Aurangzeb destroyed the Vishweshwar temple in Benares and built the gyanvapi mosque over it. Different historians have given different reasons for it but almost all agree that the temple was destroyed and a mosque built over it.

Later Rani Ahilyabai Holkar, a maratha queen whose family rose to kingship under Shivaji and his descendants constructed the present temple adjacent to the mosque.

Shivaji ofcourse is known for his opposition and rebellion against Aurangzeb.

So what's wrong if Modi repeated what happened in history?

Acceptance of islam as part of Indian culture is one thing, but that doesn't mean accepting what the bigoted tyrannical invaders did. Islam arrived in India via arab traders in present day Kerala. I don't see anyone saying anything about them.

Nor do i see christians opposing or having any griveance when Christian colonists like Brits or Portugese are routinely portrayed as villains or looters in our history.

Islam and muslims of India are different from muslim invaders. They are not one and the same. Criticism of the deeds of these invaders is not criticizing islam.

Why would a head of State make sure this is brought to the attention of the masses, who may not all be educated enough or smart enough to delineate hatred of Islam vs hatred of long gone oppresors?

Unless he wanted to make sure there are divisions along religious lines in the nation and his vote base was reminded of those divisions, as well as thinly disguised reminder of what could be coming their way if he lost and the "Muslim loving" opposition took power.
 
Keep spreading the hate modi What a leader

Lagao aag

Lagegi aag to aayege ghar kai jad me
Yaha pe sirf hamara makan thodi hain
Modi ke baap ka hindustan thodi hai
 
If you went by BJP statements you would think that the foreign conquests of India started and ended with the Mughals. Portuguese and British seem to get a free pass for some reason.
 
Its laughable how this shivaji is portrayed as a son of the soil and liberator of hindus

He was as blood thirsty and power hungry like the rest of the rulers of the time
 
Hindutva leaders call for Muslim genocide in India

Leaders of several far-right Hindu groups have called for genocide of minorities in India, particularly the country's 200 million Muslim community.

A three-day ‘hate speech conclave’ was organised by the controversial Hindutva leader Yati Narsinghanand from December 17 to 19 in Haridwar city of India’s Uttarakhand state, according to The Quint.

At the summit Hindutva leaders with some of them affiliated with the ruling BJP party made calls to kill minorities and attack their religious spaces, sparking widespread outrage and calls for action against them.

"Economic boycott won't work. Hindu groups need to update themselves. Swords look good on stage only. This battle against Muslims will be won by those with better weapons," Narsinghanand said at the gathering.

Another speaker Sadhvi Annapurna, general secretary of the Hindu Mahasabha [Hindu Grand Assembly], called for the ethnic cleansing of Muslims living in the country, according to The Wire."Nothing is possible without weapons. If you want to eliminate their population then kill them. Be ready to kill and be ready to go to jail. Even if 100 of us are ready to kill 20 lakhs [two million] of them [Muslims], then we will be victorious, and go to jail," Annapurna said.

The Wire said the summit witnessed an "extraordinary quantity of hate speech, mobilisations to violence and anti-Muslim sentiment”.

According to a police complaint filed by Trinamool Congress leader and RTI activist Saket Gokhale, others associated with the gathering are Hindu Raksha Sena's Prabodhanand Giri, BJP women's wing leader Udita Tyagi and BJP leader Ashwini Upadhyay, who is out on bail in hate speech case, according to NDTV."Like Myanmar, our police, our politicians, our Army and every Hindu must pick up weapons and conduct a Safayi Abhiyan (ethnic cleansing). There is no other option left," Prabodhanand Giri was quoted as saying.

Speaking to NDTV, Prabodhanand was nonchalant. "I am not ashamed of what I have said. I am not afraid of police. I stand by my statement," he said.

"There is a difference between your thinking and mine. Read the Constitution. My comments were not inflammatory at all. If anyone tries to kill me, I will fight back. I am not afraid of the law," he declared.

The seer flaunted his links with the BJP. He has often been photographed with BJP leaders, including Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath.

In a recent photo, Uttarakhand Chief Minister Pushkar Dhami is seen touching his feet.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2335309/hindutva-leaders-call-for-muslim-genocide-in-india
 
Well played with the words to hide the bigotry of hindutva

Islam and Muslims of India are different from Muslim conquerors of India, of course, they are.

But, in India, current Muslims are marginalized, turn into boogeyman and some how they have to pay for their ancestor to reverting to Islam.

While majority of India can destroy and build whatever they wish to, or changed the street names to make it sound more 'Hindu' but as it almost universally the case in South Asia, that has to be built upon marginalizing and bigotry against the minority.

Christian and Portuguese are at times portrayed as villain for invading and stealing and not for converting the locals to their religion neither the current generation are punished for it either.

Can you name one law that specifically marginalises Muslims?

A section of Muslims wants glorification of the cruel bigoted tyrannical looting invaders and wants hindus to accept that, ofcourse Hindus won't. The same section also wants special laws for muslims and wants preferential treatment. Infact if you ask most other religious people, they may tell you that muslims are the most appeased group due to votebank politics.

Change name to more hindu? Or change the name to its original pre invasion one? I live in Kolkata, it was the British capital of India for decades, countless streets named after brits have been changed here.

Naming a street after an invader and glorifying him isnt the thing to do.

Have you read about the Portuguese inquisition of Goa? If not, do read about it. The Portuguese are villified and criticized for it even today.
 
Why would a head of State make sure this is brought to the attention of the masses, who may not all be educated enough or smart enough to delineate hatred of Islam vs hatred of long gone oppresors?

Unless he wanted to make sure there are divisions along religious lines in the nation and his vote base was reminded of those divisions, as well as thinly disguised reminder of what could be coming their way if he lost and the "Muslim loving" opposition took power.

He was in Kashi Vishwanath temple and narrated its history.
 
Hindutva leaders call for Muslim genocide in India

Leaders of several far-right Hindu groups have called for genocide of minorities in India, particularly the country's 200 million Muslim community.

A three-day ‘hate speech conclave’ was organised by the controversial Hindutva leader Yati Narsinghanand from December 17 to 19 in Haridwar city of India’s Uttarakhand state, according to The Quint.

At the summit Hindutva leaders with some of them affiliated with the ruling BJP party made calls to kill minorities and attack their religious spaces, sparking widespread outrage and calls for action against them.

"Economic boycott won't work. Hindu groups need to update themselves. Swords look good on stage only. This battle against Muslims will be won by those with better weapons," Narsinghanand said at the gathering.

Another speaker Sadhvi Annapurna, general secretary of the Hindu Mahasabha [Hindu Grand Assembly], called for the ethnic cleansing of Muslims living in the country, according to The Wire."Nothing is possible without weapons. If you want to eliminate their population then kill them. Be ready to kill and be ready to go to jail. Even if 100 of us are ready to kill 20 lakhs [two million] of them [Muslims], then we will be victorious, and go to jail," Annapurna said.

The Wire said the summit witnessed an "extraordinary quantity of hate speech, mobilisations to violence and anti-Muslim sentiment”.

According to a police complaint filed by Trinamool Congress leader and RTI activist Saket Gokhale, others associated with the gathering are Hindu Raksha Sena's Prabodhanand Giri, BJP women's wing leader Udita Tyagi and BJP leader Ashwini Upadhyay, who is out on bail in hate speech case, according to NDTV."Like Myanmar, our police, our politicians, our Army and every Hindu must pick up weapons and conduct a Safayi Abhiyan (ethnic cleansing). There is no other option left," Prabodhanand Giri was quoted as saying.

Speaking to NDTV, Prabodhanand was nonchalant. "I am not ashamed of what I have said. I am not afraid of police. I stand by my statement," he said.

"There is a difference between your thinking and mine. Read the Constitution. My comments were not inflammatory at all. If anyone tries to kill me, I will fight back. I am not afraid of the law," he declared.

The seer flaunted his links with the BJP. He has often been photographed with BJP leaders, including Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath.

In a recent photo, Uttarakhand Chief Minister Pushkar Dhami is seen touching his feet.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2335309/hindutva-leaders-call-for-muslim-genocide-in-india

Disgusting and despicable. Need a public thrashing these b**tards. The law and order situation in UP has gone to the dogs.
 
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Disgusting and despicable. Need a public thrashing these bustards. The law and order situation in UP has gone to the dogs.
As if anything will happen to these creatures in our bigotry filled country!
 
Disgusting and despicable. Need a public thrashing these bustards. The law and order situation in UP has gone to the dogs.
This Narsinghanand is that same creature who earlier this year had brutally beaten a 10 years old Muslim boy just because he dared to drink water from a UP temple.

If nothing happened to him then why would anything happen to him now?
 
This Narsinghanand is that same creature who earlier this year had brutally beaten a 10 years old Muslim boy just because he dared to drink water from a UP temple.

If nothing happened to him then why would anything happen to him now?

Some of these guys are beyond redemption. Need to be whipped in their *** and put them in cages if needed. The moment examples are set the sheeps that blindly follow them will fall in line.
 
This is what needs to be looked at as well:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In the heart of Delhi, raising Nazi-style salutes, hundreds vow: “We all pledge, that until our last breath, we will make India a Hindu nation. We will fight and die and, if required, kill.” Fascism is risen in India, and the world turns blind eyes. <br><br> <a href="https://t.co/n7JC2Ze4iD">pic.twitter.com/n7JC2Ze4iD</a></p>— Pieter Friedrich (@FriedrichPieter) <a href="https://twitter.com/FriedrichPieter/status/1473536473022418945?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 22, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Bengaluru: The series of attacks on Christians in Karnataka is partly their fault, the state's home minister Araga Jnanendra appeared to indicate today, telling NDTV that there is "mistake on both sides". Two days before Christmas, as the state passed the controversial religious conversion bill amid widespread protests, Mr Jnanendra was asked about the attacks, which Chief Minister Basavraj Bommai has said was meant to avoid the rampant forced conversions in the state.

Asked about the attacks by right-wing groups on Christian prayer meetings, Mr Jnanendra said, "There is mistake on both sides. If they were not doing forceful conversion, then they wouldn't be stopping them and creating ruckus".

He, however, admitted that there is "no way anyone can take law into their own hands... if a complaint is given, action will be initiated.

Asked if the law and order situation is being disturbed is because of "fringe elements", the minister responded in the negative. "On one hand, yes, fringe elements and on the other hand there are illegal conversions," he said.

Asked whether the state government has data to prove illegal conversions, Mr Jnanendra answered in the affirmative.

Asked if the data was based on registered cases or allegations, he said it is allegations.

"There are no registered cases. In Udupi one suicide took place, four people in Mangaluru committed suicide because of conversions and our MLA's mother," he said, refering to the BJP MLA from Hosadurga Taluk Gulihatti Chandrashekar.

"Before giving a complaint (to the police), he had requested his mother not to convert. And he started creating awareness about not to convert. But when he tried to file a complaint, the police did not receive it because there are no sections under which this case can be filed. This is not the fault of the police. Siddaramaiah said you can file a complaint under Section IPC 295. But that section is about defiling place of worship. There is no section for conversion," he said.

Earlier today, the "Karnataka Protection of Right to Freedom of Religion Bill, 2021", popularly known as "Anti-conversion Bill", was passed assembly today amid vociferous protests by he Congress, who called it "anti-people", "inhuman", "anti-constitutional", "anti-poor" and "draconian".

Last week, Dr Ashwathnarayan CN -- a minister in Basavaraj Bommai's cabinet --- had told NDTV that no attack on Christian community has taken place because of their religion. The attacks, he contended, were on personal level and a campaign is created around them to meet political ends.

Since September, as the state cabinet started discussions on an anti-conversion bill, at least 7 attacks by right-wing vigilantes on churches and the Christian community have been reported in Karnataka.

Religious books have been burnt and mobs have barged into churches and attacked its members.

On the day when the bill was tabled for discussion, a statue of St Anthony was vandalised by unknown people. The priest of the church, Father Jospeh Anthony Daniel, told NDTV that the church in Susaipalya is believed to have been damaged around 5.30 this morning. He said this kind of vandalism had never happened before.

In most cases, these have been preceded by unproven allegations of forcible conversion. Church leaders have expressed concern that a bill may lead to an escalation in violence.

https://www.ndtv.com/karnataka-news...christians-2668519#pfrom=home-ndtv_topstories
 
Some of these guys are beyond redemption. Need to be whipped in their *** and put them in cages if needed. The moment examples are set the sheeps that blindly follow them will fall in line.
Bigotry is in such an abundant supply these days in India that anyone who denies its presence, unabashedly supports this bigotry.
 
Bigotry is in such an abundant supply these days in India that anyone who denies its presence, unabashedly supports this bigotry.

These days? There have always been such bigots in India, and across religious lines.
There is a law against hate speech in India but who is to enforce it, particularly if the offender has political connections?

Apparently the police did try to book this Narsinghanand guy after he made the hate speech, but were threatened by his followers. Some arrests seem to have been made as well.
 
Aurangzeb was one of the worst human beings to ever live.
Forced Conversions, Killing Sikh Gurus, Killing his own family for lust of power.
 
Bigotry is in such an abundant supply these days in India that anyone who denies its presence, unabashedly supports this bigotry.

There can't be any justification of this based on what anybody else has done in past. This needs to be stopped otherwise this will get far worse.
 
Aurangzeb was one of the worst human beings to ever live.
Forced Conversions, Killing Sikh Gurus, Killing his own family for lust of power.

Aurangzeb was guilty of all the above, but killing relatives to gain the throne was quite common for the Mughals and indeed dynasties in history all over the world.
 
Well played with the words to hide the bigotry of hindutva

Islam and Muslims of India are different from Muslim conquerors of India, of course, they are.

But, in India, current Muslims are marginalized, turn into boogeyman and some how they have to pay for their ancestor to reverting to Islam.

While majority of India can destroy and build whatever they wish to, or changed the street names to make it sound more 'Hindu' but as it almost universally the case in South Asia, that has to be built upon marginalizing and bigotry against the minority.

Christian and Portuguese are at times portrayed as villain for invading and stealing and not for converting the locals to their religion neither the current generation are punished for it either.

Well, Christians and Portugese didnt demand for a seperate country based on their religion...muslims did and that is how Pakistan was formed.

Look I gonna be very clear and I have repeated this many times, when you break a country based on religion lines you cant expect one to become religious autonomy and the other to remain secular. This hypocritical arrangement will never work. Not sure why this so difficult for some to understand.

Muslims wanted a seperate land for them based on their religion and that is how Pakistan was formed. We agree on this point so far? Now since muslims have got their own country, remaining hindus in India also have all the right to spread hinduism or hindutva in India. Agree or not? Not sure why it is considered bigoted or why it is a headache for my Pakistani friends. Also, a lie being sold that Pakistan wanted religious autonomy and India wanted to remain secular. No sir that is incorrect. When Britishers divided the country, they did based on religious lines. East and West Pakistan for muslims, India for hindu majority. Then during partition the people who couldnt move like Pakistani hindus or Indian muslims, they all stayed back. Its a differemt story that Indian muslims flourished and we all know the truth about minorities in Pakistan/Bangladesh. But that aside, the idea of division itself was never to make Pakistan for muslims and keep India secular. It was later Indira Gandhi who changed the preamble of consitution (42nd Amendement) and added the term 'socialist secular democratic republic' for her personal gains (aka vote bank).

What Modi is doing is just making people aware of history, the same forgotten history that was wiped out by Congress. The spread of hindutva will never die down until Indian becomes hindu rastra which will eventually happen anyway. The real reason being the two nation theory is sitting on an hypocritical arrangement and as you know any hypocricy cant last forever.
 
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Well, Christians and Portugese didnt demand for a seperate country based on their religion...muslims did and that is how Pakistan was formed.

Look I gonna be very clear and I have repeated this many times, when you break a country based on religion lines you cant expect one to become religious autonomy and the other to remain secular. This hypocritical arrangement will never work. Not sure why this so difficult for some to understand.

Muslims wanted a seperate land for them based on their religion and that is how Pakistan was formed. We agree on this point so far? Now since muslims have got their own country, remaining hindus in India also have all the right to spread hinduism or hindutva in India. Agree or not? Not sure why it is considered bigoted or why it is a headache for my Pakistani friends. Also, a lie being sold that Pakistan wanted religious autonomy and India wanted to remain secular. No sir that is incorrect. When Britishers divided the country, they did based on religious lines. East and West Pakistan for muslims, India for hindu majority. Then during partition the people who couldnt move like Pakistani hindus or Indian muslims, they all stayed back. Its a differemt story that Indian muslims flourished and we all know the truth about minorities in Pakistan/Bangladesh. But that aside, the idea of division itself was never to make Pakistan for muslims and keep India secular. It was later Indira Gandhi who changed the preamble of consitution (42nd Amendement) and added the term 'socialist secular democratic republic' for her personal gains (aka vote bank).

What Modi is doing is just making people aware of history, the same forgotten history that was wiped out by Congress. The spread of hindutva will never die down until Indian becomes hindu rastra which will eventually happen anyway. The real reason being the two nation theory is sitting on an hypocritical arrangement and as you know any hypocricy cant last forever.

All that is very good, but we can no longer have a 'hindu rashtra' in a country with 200 million+ muslims and numerous other non-hindus like christians, sikhs, parsees, buddhists etc.

An overwhelming majority of Indian muslims have not witnessed the partition. Their ancestors chose India over Pakistan in 1947 by rejecting Mr. Jinnah's two nation theory, and India had promised everyone equal treatment. No way the Indian muslims can be ill treated on the basis of their religion now.

India has no option other than building a pluralistic, secular state where everyone is treated equally, and no one is appeased. That means a new political order that is neither based on Congress style pseudo secularism, nor the extreme hindutva that some in the BJP are promoting. Hindus, muslims and everyone else must get equal rights, equal rewards and equal punishments.

I still think that the BJP can bring this about if they silence some of the hard core extremists like this Narsinghanand type. Unlikely that the Congress will do anything in the line of social justice with the leadership they have.
 
Police in the northern Indian state of Uttarakhand have launched an investigation after Hindu leaders called for violence against Muslims.

Videos from a meeting of Hindu religious leaders showing provocative speeches went viral earlier this week, sparking outrage.

The event took place in the holy town of Haridwar between 17 and 19 December.

Police said they had not opened a case until Thursday because there had been no official complaints before that.

Bbc
 
Well, Christians and Portugese didnt demand for a seperate country based on their religion...muslims did and that is how Pakistan was formed.

Look I gonna be very clear and I have repeated this many times, when you break a country based on religion lines you cant expect one to become religious autonomy and the other to remain secular. This hypocritical arrangement will never work. Not sure why this so difficult for some to understand.

Muslims wanted a seperate land for them based on their religion and that is how Pakistan was formed. We agree on this point so far? Now since muslims have got their own country, remaining hindus in India also have all the right to spread hinduism or hindutva in India. Agree or not? Not sure why it is considered bigoted or why it is a headache for my Pakistani friends. Also, a lie being sold that Pakistan wanted religious autonomy and India wanted to remain secular. No sir that is incorrect. When Britishers divided the country, they did based on religious lines. East and West Pakistan for muslims, India for hindu majority. Then during partition the people who couldnt move like Pakistani hindus or Indian muslims, they all stayed back. Its a differemt story that Indian muslims flourished and we all know the truth about minorities in Pakistan/Bangladesh. But that aside, the idea of division itself was never to make Pakistan for muslims and keep India secular. It was later Indira Gandhi who changed the preamble of consitution (42nd Amendement) and added the term 'socialist secular democratic republic' for her personal gains (aka vote bank).

What Modi is doing is just making people aware of history, the same forgotten history that was wiped out by Congress. The spread of hindutva will never die down until Indian becomes hindu rastra which will eventually happen anyway. The real reason being the two nation theory is sitting on an hypocritical arrangement and as you know any hypocricy cant last forever.

Muslims might aspire to live in an islamic country, but why do you assume every Hindu wants to live in a Hindu rashtra though..

There's no support for Hindu nationalism in my state for example, or the south in general except Karnataka. The culture here is naturally secular and tolerant towards all religions, and unlike the north, Pakistan and Bangladesh which saw so much violence on both sides during partition or even before that, nothing of that sort happened in the south and therefore there's no distrust between hindus, muslims and christians where I live. Not just that, while our people do have a lot of faith in God, we are always distrustful of enforcing religion in the state affairs as we believe a religious state cannot prosper, and that intolerance is bound to nurture fundamentalism and extremism. So why do we have to tag along for your Hindutva dream project, something we never signed up for.

I don't get one thing with right wing hindus. I fully understand their logic that Pakistan was created on religious lines and India has every right to style itself on the same religious lines. But here's the thing, just because we have that right doesn't mean we have to exercise it. You have seen how mixing religion in the state affairs has wrecked Pakistan from the relative state of prosperity they had in the 60s. There's no starker example than the case of Bangladesh, which while not being completely secular, at least is partially, and they have made a conscious effort to stray away from mixing religion in the state affairs (atleast under Hasina) and how that has borne fruits.

You have the next door example of China which shunned religion way back in the 60s and how they're now. Or Japan or South Korea for that matter. You also have the example of Europe, where you enjoy a happy life in a secular society that's rich, prosperous and progressive. With all these successful examples, you want to choose the worst model that has clearly failed in Pakistan, just because you want to give it to the muslims, and not because you want India to prosper as a country. But then again, you live a happy life in the UK, and so you wouldn't bother about things like India progressing to where China is right now as a country, but you just want India to turn into a Hindu Rashtra, just so you can stroke your ego and give it to the muslims, even if that's detrimental to the progress of the country. Why should we be tagged along to a disastrous model that has rarely worked anywhere on Earth except a few outliers, and choose failure and suffering when we were doing just fine in a secular state?
 
Muslims might aspire to live in an islamic country, but why do you assume every Hindu wants to live in a Hindu rashtra though..

There's no support for Hindu nationalism in my state for example, or the south in general except Karnataka. The culture here is naturally secular and tolerant towards all religions, and unlike the north, Pakistan and Bangladesh which saw so much violence on both sides during partition or even before that, nothing of that sort happened in the south and therefore there's no distrust between hindus, muslims and christians where I live. Not just that, while our people do have a lot of faith in God, we are always distrustful of enforcing religion in the state affairs as we believe a religious state cannot prosper, and that intolerance is bound to nurture fundamentalism and extremism. So why do we have to tag along for your Hindutva dream project, something we never signed up for.

I don't get one thing with right wing hindus. I fully understand their logic that Pakistan was created on religious lines and India has every right to style itself on the same religious lines. But here's the thing, just because we have that right doesn't mean we have to exercise it. You have seen how mixing religion in the state affairs has wrecked Pakistan from the relative state of prosperity they had in the 60s. There's no starker example than the case of Bangladesh, which while not being completely secular, at least is partially, and they have made a conscious effort to stray away from mixing religion in the state affairs (atleast under Hasina) and how that has borne fruits.

You have the next door example of China which shunned religion way back in the 60s and how they're now. Or Japan or South Korea for that matter. You also have the example of Europe, where you enjoy a happy life in a secular society that's rich, prosperous and progressive. With all these successful examples, you want to choose the worst model that has clearly failed in Pakistan, just because you want to give it to the muslims, and not because you want India to prosper as a country. But then again, you live a happy life in the UK, and so you wouldn't bother about things like India progressing to where China is right now as a country, but you just want India to turn into a Hindu Rashtra, just so you can stroke your ego and give it to the muslims, even if that's detrimental to the progress of the country. Why should we be tagged along to a disastrous model that has rarely worked anywhere on Earth except a few outliers, and choose failure and suffering when we were doing just fine in a secular state?

Absolutely on the dot, every word.

If India is to make progress and solve the myriad problems facing it, it has to learn to take everyone along and leave religion at home.

Even Modi rode to power on a development agenda, and not on hindtutva. 'Sabka saath , sabka vikaas' was his election slogan in 2014.

Sad that he hasn't been able to put a leash on the extremists in his party as much as everyone would have liked.
 
These days? There have always been such bigots in India, and across religious lines.
I've lived all my life in India and I know for sure which years have been overwhelmingly bigotry filled. There hasn't ever been more bigotry on display in India other than partition time, anti sikh pogrom in '84 and anti muslim pogrom in '02. Latter 2 were more localised affairs and were concentrated more in Delhi and Gujarat respectively.

Partition we all know, both sides were to be blamed for the mayhem unleashed on both sides.

However since '14, bigotry has taken a far more vicious meaning with it receiving continuous and elongated patronage from powers that be. This is something which has given more teeth to the bigots as they don't have anyone to fear, not law, not the government of the day, absolutely no one. There have been countless examples of extreme bigotry on display.

As you yourself admit, even police was threatened by Narsinghanand's stooges. That's how much emboldened these guys have become with continuous state patronage.
 
but why do you assume every Hindu wants to live in a Hindu rashtra though..
Agree with this. I'm a devout Hindu myself and but I absolutely abhor the kind of hindutva propagated by sanghis. Thats not the kind of Hinduism I'm born and brought up with. Exceptions are there when bigotry took over us but showing more bigotry is not the right approach.

Two wrongs don't make one right.
 
Muslims might aspire to live in an islamic country, but why do you assume every Hindu wants to live in a Hindu rashtra though..

There's no support for Hindu nationalism in my state for example, or the south in general except Karnataka. The culture here is naturally secular and tolerant towards all religions, and unlike the north, Pakistan and Bangladesh which saw so much violence on both sides during partition or even before that, nothing of that sort happened in the south and therefore there's no distrust between hindus, muslims and christians where I live. Not just that, while our people do have a lot of faith in God, we are always distrustful of enforcing religion in the state affairs as we believe a religious state cannot prosper, and that intolerance is bound to nurture fundamentalism and extremism. So why do we have to tag along for your Hindutva dream project, something we never signed up for.

I don't get one thing with right wing hindus. I fully understand their logic that Pakistan was created on religious lines and India has every right to style itself on the same religious lines. But here's the thing, just because we have that right doesn't mean we have to exercise it. You have seen how mixing religion in the state affairs has wrecked Pakistan from the relative state of prosperity they had in the 60s. There's no starker example than the case of Bangladesh, which while not being completely secular, at least is partially, and they have made a conscious effort to stray away from mixing religion in the state affairs (atleast under Hasina) and how that has borne fruits.

You have the next door example of China which shunned religion way back in the 60s and how they're now. Or Japan or South Korea for that matter. You also have the example of Europe, where you enjoy a happy life in a secular society that's rich, prosperous and progressive. With all these successful examples, you want to choose the worst model that has clearly failed in Pakistan, just because you want to give it to the muslims, and not because you want India to prosper as a country. But then again, you live a happy life in the UK, and so you wouldn't bother about things like India progressing to where China is right now as a country, but you just want India to turn into a Hindu Rashtra, just so you can stroke your ego and give it to the muslims, even if that's detrimental to the progress of the country. Why should we be tagged along to a disastrous model that has rarely worked anywhere on Earth except a few outliers, and choose failure and suffering when we were doing just fine in a secular state?

With respect your entire concept of hindu rastra is wrong. I know you think that if India becomes a hindu rastra tomorrow saffron goons will come with stick and beat down everyone with other faiths. Haha. Let me assure you that is far from reality.

As you rightly said, I enjoy my secular freedoms in UK but you know right that Church of England is head of state here and Christianity is the official religion? Why you think there are no bank holidays here for Diwali or Eid but Chrismas is a national holiday. Why? Bcoz UKs state religion is Christianity. Same is the case for most other European countries. But they are all still a pluralistic soceity where other faiths reside peacefully. What do you think is the state religion of Italy where Pope lives? Is Italy not a liberal society?

Similarly, if hinduism becomes states religion of India what problem could people from your state have? There are many people from "your state" lives in UK accepting Christianity as state religion...so why cant they accept hinduism in India? Its not as if India will become North Korea or Saudi Arabia kind of dictatorship. It can still remain a pluralistic society with hinduism as state religion.

Sorry to say but liberals have little understanding about what hindu rastra means and then they create fear mongering among masses that if India gets a state religion other faiths will be wiped out, India will be fascist country etc etc. None of these will actually happen. You should rather educate people of "your state" and tell them that they are living in fools world.

Anway, India will eventually become Hindu Rastra if BJP stays in power for 10-15 more years. Just like Indira Gandhi didnt took everyone's approval to change the preamble of the constitution, BJP wont either to make hinduism a state religion whether every states agree or not.
 
With respect your entire concept of hindu rastra is wrong. I know you think that if India becomes a hindu rastra tomorrow saffron goons will come with stick and beat down everyone with other faiths. Haha. Let me assure you that is far from reality.

As you rightly said, I enjoy my secular freedoms in UK but you know right that Church of England is head of state here and Christianity is the official religion? Why you think there are no bank holidays here for Diwali or Eid but Chrismas is a national holiday. Why? Bcoz UKs state religion is Christianity. Same is the case for most other European countries. But they are all still a pluralistic soceity where other faiths reside peacefully. What do you think is the state religion of Italy where Pope lives? Is Italy not a liberal society?

Similarly, if hinduism becomes states religion of India what problem could people from your state have? There are many people from "your state" lives in UK accepting Christianity as state religion...so why cant they accept hinduism in India? Its not as if India will become North Korea or Saudi Arabia kind of dictatorship. It can still remain a pluralistic society with hinduism as state religion.

Sorry to say but liberals have little understanding about what hindu rastra means and then they create fear mongering among masses that if India gets a state religion other faiths will be wiped out, India will be fascist country etc etc. None of these will actually happen. You should rather educate people of "your state" and tell them that they are living in fools world.

Anway, India will eventually become Hindu Rastra if BJP stays in power for 10-15 more years. Just like Indira Gandhi didnt took everyone's approval to change the preamble of the constitution, BJP wont either to make hinduism a state religion whether every states agree or not.

I know you think a hindu rashtra would be a utopian model state reminiscent of Ram Rajya that gives equal rights to all citizens, but guess what, this is exactly what every Pakistani who wants Pakistan to remain an Islamic country thinks. They think exactly like you, that Pakistan would be a model islamic state reminiscent of the Riyasat e Medina, something Imran himself has talked time and again, where minorities would flourish with full freedom. Nobody who practices his religion would think that a state based on his/her religion would be an intolerant one, they have this version of a model state within their own minds where minorities would enjoy full freedom of rights and that the state would be a prosperous one. However what happens in reality is a world apart from the imaginary utopian model state they have conceptualised in their own minds.

I'll be honest, I chuckled when you compared the tolerance of the Indian society to European societies. It might be true that Christianity might be the state religions in some European states, but how many times have you seen people getting lynched on the streets by angry white Europeans for blasphemy. The subcontinent culture is completely different from the European culture, you should have figured this out by now after your stay in Europe. Europeans are tolerant because most of them do not give a damn about their religion, not because they're religious AND tolerant. Apart from cultural reasons, what influence do you think Christianity has in the European society? Do you think idol worship is banned in Europe because idolatry is abhorred in the Bible. Yet in a secular India, eating cow meat is banned because it offends the sentiments of hindus. Muslims pay for that with their lives every other week when they get lynched on the streets in India. If this is the case in a secular state, I don't want to imagine what would happen in a Hindu rashtra where all the plebs would be empowered.

BJP can make North India a Hindu Rashtra if it wants and give autonomy to the south, so that it remains secular. But if you think the entire country has to dance according to the whims of the Hindutva loving demography in the north, I'm afraid you would be bitterly disappointed. The BJP could barely pass the farm laws because of month long protests in a single state. I would love to see the BJP trying something stupid like dissolving the secular ideology of the state and the inevitable reaction all over the country. Tbh I think even the BJP are not stupid enough to do that.
 
Anway, India will eventually become Hindu Rastra if BJP stays in power for 10-15 more years. Just like Indira Gandhi didnt took everyone's approval to change the preamble of the constitution, BJP wont either to make hinduism a state religion whether every states agree or not.

There are about 50 million christians and 200 millions muslims who live in India that don't want it to be a Hindu rashtra.

Why are you so insecure about your own faith that you need it force it down other people's throats by making it a state religion? Yogi Adityanth must be your hero.
 
Why Indian Hindus are so obsessed with Islam and Sikhism

I often get the sense that Indian posters are not yet over partition or existence of non-Hindus in Indian subcontinent.

First it was Muslims, okay some of them may have been converted forcibly and may share similarities with neighbouring Indian states. But why this need to bring past each time Muslims celebrate anything Arabic or Turkish.

With Sikhs, the root cause of friction among Sikhs-Hindus is that Sikhs have always been anti-rituals etc. They are monotheistic faith like Islam with no idol worshipping, superstitions etc. Sikhs had demanded Sikh marriage act for decades, they were forced to marry under Hindu marriage act. Only in 2012 it was passed. Hindus often claim some Sikh Guru's were born Hindus which is true, but they preached against Hindu practises and shunned Hinduism.

Sikhism is heavily influenced by both Islam and Hinduism, each time Sikhs help Muslims or vice versa Hindus jump to remind Sikhs of hatred from partition or Mughal empire. They jump to remind Sikhs how their Guru's died. Guru Gobind Singh wrote Zafarnama letter to Aurangzeb in farsi, in which he critiqued Aurangzeb's character but praised Allah. Aurangzeb was a ruler, not a religious prophet.

Now the Christians are latest victim of this phenomenon. Nobody cared for dalits and backward class for centuries in Hindu caste system, but when they started to convert to Christianity en masse, RSS woke up and trying to ban religious conversions.

Learn to accept rejection, and move on with your lives.
 
India isnt a hindu rastra and yeh haalat hai with threats, lynchings, discrimination and religious persecution as a daily occurence

The day it becomes ones the hindutva goons will ensure there ll be a blood bath
 
See the difference between the majority of pakistani muslim posters and the hindutva ones are that the pakistani ones will clearly and unambigiously condemn brutal or wrongful acts committed in the name of religion in pakistan ie the sialkot incident

The hindutva ones though will either ignore commenting on these acts in india or go into whataboutery in essence justify these acts

Its a shameless state of affair
 
the list is very long modi ji.
there was Taimur, Ghori , Ghaznavi, Abdali, Babar, etc
so wheres your lists of Rajputs and Rajas who stood up to them ?
tell us about the winner also .
 
I know you think a hindu rashtra would be a utopian model state reminiscent of Ram Rajya that gives equal rights to all citizens, but guess what, this is exactly what every Pakistani who wants Pakistan to remain an Islamic country thinks. They think exactly like you, that Pakistan would be a model islamic state reminiscent of the Riyasat e Medina, something Imran himself has talked time and again, where minorities would flourish with full freedom. Nobody who practices his religion would think that a state based on his/her religion would be an intolerant one, they have this version of a model state within their own minds where minorities would enjoy full freedom of rights and that the state would be a prosperous one. However what happens in reality is a world apart from the imaginary utopian model state they have conceptualised in their own minds.

I'll be honest, I chuckled when you compared the tolerance of the Indian society to European societies. It might be true that Christianity might be the state religions in some European states, but how many times have you seen people getting lynched on the streets by angry white Europeans for blasphemy. The subcontinent culture is completely different from the European culture, you should have figured this out by now after your stay in Europe. Europeans are tolerant because most of them do not give a damn about their religion, not because they're religious AND tolerant. Apart from cultural reasons, what influence do you think Christianity has in the European society? Do you think idol worship is banned in Europe because idolatry is abhorred in the Bible. Yet in a secular India, eating cow meat is banned because it offends the sentiments of hindus. Muslims pay for that with their lives every other week when they get lynched on the streets in India. If this is the case in a secular state, I don't want to imagine what would happen in a Hindu rashtra where all the plebs would be empowered.

BJP can make North India a Hindu Rashtra if it wants and give autonomy to the south, so that it remains secular. But if you think the entire country has to dance according to the whims of the Hindutva loving demography in the north, I'm afraid you would be bitterly disappointed. The BJP could barely pass the farm laws because of month long protests in a single state. I would love to see the BJP trying something stupid like dissolving the secular ideology of the state and the inevitable reaction all over the country. Tbh I think even the BJP are not stupid enough to do that.

Not sure why it made you chuckle bcoz you brought the topic of Europe saying I am enjoying secular life in UK while preaching hindu rashtra in India. So I was just giving you facts that Christianity is the state religion of UK. But still it is secular which means having a state religion is agnostic to its pluralistic nature. Both can co-exist together as shown by European countries.

So the idea of hindu rastra as a whole is not bad. Its the mindset of the people which is the problem in Indian sub continent. For example, I was travelling in a bus today and whole time they were playing Christmas caroll. People were totally cool with it. Imagine Hanuman Chalisa being played in an Indian bus...our liberal brothers would be up in arms. Similarly, right wing hooliganism and beef lynching is already happening in India. Did our secular constitution manage to stop them? No. So the problem is not with the concept of state religion itself...its the mindset of subcontinent people (both right and left wingers).
#Fact
 
New Delhi: Open calls for genocide and use of weapons against Muslims, made at a "Dharma Sansad" or religious assembly in Haridwar in Uttarakhand, have triggered outrage and condemnation but the speech-givers say they stand by their hate comments.

As clips from the event held between Friday and Monday circulated on social media, former military chiefs, activists and even an international tennis legend demanded action. But four days on, there is not even an FIR over the egregious hate speeches.

The conclave was organised by Yati Narasimhanand, a religious leader who has been accused in the past of inciting violence with his incendiary speeches. According to a police complaint filed by Trinamool Congress leader and RTI activist Saket Gokhale today, others associated with the gathering are Hindu Raksha Sena's Prabodhanand Giri, BJP women's wing leader Udita Tyagi and BJP leader Ashwini Upadhyay, who is out on bail in hate speech case.

Prabodhanand Giri tells the gathering in one video: "Like Myanmar, our police, our politicians, our Army and every Hindu must pick up weapons and conduct a Safayi Abhiyan (ethnic cleansing). There is no other option left."

Speaking to NDTV, Prabodhanand was nonchalant today. "I am not ashamed of what I have said. I am not afraid of police. I stand by my statement," he said.

"There is a difference between your thinking and mine. Read the Constitution. My comments were not inflammatory at all. If anyone tries to kill me, I will fight back. I am not afraid of the law," he declared.

The seer flaunted his links with the BJP. He has often been photographed with BJP leaders, including Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath. In a recent photo, Uttarakhand Chief Minister Pushkar Dhami is seen touching his feet.

Another video from the controversial meet shows Pooja Shakun Pandey, aka "Sadhvi Annapurna", giving a call to arms and urging violence against Muslims.

"If you want to finish them off, then ki|l them... We need 100 soldiers who can kill 20 lakh of them to win this," she says.

Speaking to NDTV, she doubled down on her comments and said: "The Constitution of India is wrong. Indians should pray to Nathuram Godse (Mahatma Gandhi's assassin). I am not afraid of the police."

From the same stage, BJP leader Ashwini Upadhyay distributed copies of what he called the "Bhagwa (saffron) Constitution". Defending himself in a video, he said he had only attended the fag end of the event and had nothing to do with what was said before him.

"What happened before I went, I don't know. I went on the last day for 30 minutes. Since I reached late, my slot was reduced to 10 minutes from 30. I had taken a copy of the constitution. I distributed copies to some and discussed provisions related to population control, checking conversions, infiltrations...If distributing or discussing the constitution is a crime, then I have committed a crime," said Mr Upadhyay.

In one of the videos, the speaker, Swami Dharam Das Maharaj, talks about "becoming Nathuram Godse" and shooting Manmohan Singh (former Prime Minister) in parliament.

"If I was present in parliament when PM Manmohan Singh said minorities have first right over national resources, I would've followed Nathuram Godse, I'd have shot him six times in the chest with a revolver," Dharam Das says.

The police claimed there is no FIR as there is no complaint. "The police are monitoring the situation," said Haridwar Superintendent of Police Swatantra Kumar Singh, when it was pointed out that the divisive speeches were already out in the open.

A video showing the saffron-robed gathering taking a pledge to fight for a "Hindu-only nation" provoked a reaction from tennis legend Martina Navratilova.

"We take an oath to fight and kill [Muslims] to turn India into a Hindu-only nation," said the Hindu Yuva Vahini, reading out the oath.

"What is going on?!?" - Martina Navratilova tweeted on the video.

NDTV cannot independently verify the authenticity of the clips.

"WHY IS THIS NOT BEING STOPPED? With our Jawans facing enemies on two fronts, do we want a communal blood-bath, domestic turmoil and international disgrace? Is it difficult to understand that anything which damages national cohesion and unity endangers India's national security," former Navy Chief Arun Prakash tweeted.

Former Army Chief General VP Mallik replied to the tweet: "Agreed. Such speeches disturb public harmony and affect national security. Action required by Civil Administration."

Many of the speakers at the conclave are repeat offenders.

Pooja Shakun, for example, made headlines in 2019 when she fired a shot at an effigy of Mahatma Gandhi, raised slogans praising Nathuram Godse and set fire to the effigy.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/viral-hate-speech-videos-haridwar-meet-spark-outrage-2667081
 
This is what needs to be looked at as well:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In the heart of Delhi, raising Nazi-style salutes, hundreds vow: “We all pledge, that until our last breath, we will make India a Hindu nation. We will fight and die and, if required, kill.” Fascism is risen in India, and the world turns blind eyes. <br><br> <a href="https://t.co/n7JC2Ze4iD">pic.twitter.com/n7JC2Ze4iD</a></p>— Pieter Friedrich (@FriedrichPieter) <a href="https://twitter.com/FriedrichPieter/status/1473536473022418945?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 22, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I bet some Hindutuva will come on here and tell us those guys aren't doing Nazi salutes, they are taking their swimming lessons
 
I bet some Hindutuva will come on here and tell us those guys aren't doing Nazi salutes, they are taking their swimming lessons

These are not nazi salutes, they are doing a oath taking.

But the nonsense they have vomitted deserves a jail sentence.
 
These are not nazi salutes, they are doing a oath taking.

But the nonsense they have vomitted deserves a jail sentence.

Just wait until Didi becomes PM - there will be pre-emptive strikes on this orange lot.
 
Who is the Aurungzeb that Modi fears is rising and who is the Shivaji that he feels will stop him?
 
These days? There have always been such bigots in India, and across religious lines.
More bigotry from sanghi idiots,

With 'Jai Shri Ram' Chants, Gurgaon School's Christmas Carnival Disrupted

Gurgaon: A group of men led by a politician on Thursday barged into a Gurgaon private school and disrupted a Christmas carnival. They also raised slogans of "Jai Shri Ram (long live Lord Ram)" and "Bharat Mata Ki Jai (hail mother India)". Videos of the incident show a man addressing the students and staff. "Christianity is not acceptable here. We are not disrespecting Jesus Christ but we want to tell the future generations to remember him if they want and do it legally but not fall for attempts of religious conversion. It can destroy Indian culture," he can be heard saying.

The incident is from the Narhera village in Gurgaon's Pataudi town. A group called House Hope Gurugram had organised the Christmas carnival and reportedly chanted praise to Jesus Christ after a song performance that miffed some locals who saw it as a provocation to convert students into Christianity. The school administration sent the group back to placate the situation.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/chr...ai-shree-ram-2671263#pfrom=home-ndtv_bigstory
 
All these bigots do is sully the pious name of Lord Shri Ram.
 
He's not from the same ethnicity, he needs to find a Gujarati hero but they probably don't exist.
 
Strange, the PM of India should be saying these things.

I thought India was a secular country.

I also thought Aurangzeb was Indian - born and bred.
 
Strange, the PM of India should be saying these things.

I thought India was a secular country.

I also thought Aurangzeb was Indian - born and bred.

According to modi and his bhakts as we are seeing a muslim cant be a true indian
 
Strange, the PM of India should be saying these things.

I thought India was a secular country.

I also thought Aurangzeb was Indian - born and bred.

Secularism has nothing to do with calling a invading tyrannical bigot what he is.

Aurangzeb like his predecessors was from a invading horde from central Asia. Just being born in India doesn't mean anything. Even today, one has to have Indian parents to have Indian citizenship. The Mughals were foreigners who continued to follow their foreign culture and language and tried their best to impose that on the locals by force.
 
Secularism has nothing to do with calling a invading tyrannical bigot what he is.

Aurangzeb like his predecessors was from a invading horde from central Asia. Just being born in India doesn't mean anything. Even today, one has to have Indian parents to have Indian citizenship. The Mughals were foreigners who continued to follow their foreign culture and language and tried their best to impose that on the locals by force.

Aurangzeb was an indian by all current modern day definitions
 
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Secularism has nothing to do with calling a invading tyrannical bigot what he is.

Aurangzeb like his predecessors was from a invading horde from central Asia. Just being born in India doesn't mean anything. Even today, one has to have Indian parents to have Indian citizenship. The Mughals were foreigners who continued to follow their foreign culture and language and tried their best to impose that on the locals by force.

These lies that you and modi are forcibly shoveing down peoples throats wont work no matter how loudly or regularly you shout them

Aurangzeb was an indian ruler of the majority of the subcontinent

The only reason hes despised is because he was muslim which in modis india is a crime initself
 
Not sure why it made you chuckle bcoz you brought the topic of Europe saying I am enjoying secular life in UK while preaching hindu rashtra in India. So I was just giving you facts that Christianity is the state religion of UK. But still it is secular which means having a state religion is agnostic to its pluralistic nature. Both can co-exist together as shown by European countries.

So the idea of hindu rastra as a whole is not bad. Its the mindset of the people which is the problem in Indian sub continent. For example, I was travelling in a bus today and whole time they were playing Christmas caroll. People were totally cool with it. Imagine Hanuman Chalisa being played in an Indian bus...our liberal brothers would be up in arms. Similarly, right wing hooliganism and beef lynching is already happening in India. Did our secular constitution manage to stop them? No. So the problem is not with the concept of state religion itself...its the mindset of subcontinent people (both right and left wingers).
#Fact

Completely agree and very well said. You don't seem to be fussed over Hindu beliefs being enforced by the government and are a keen lover of Christmas carols.

Basically you want an environment where certain religious models are enshrined but is pluralistic in nature.

https://www.outlookindia.com/websit...kbar-and-jehangir-celebrated-christmas/344594

How about bringing back the Mughal?
 
Well, Christians and Portugese didnt demand for a seperate country based on their religion...muslims did and that is how Pakistan was formed.

Look I gonna be very clear and I have repeated this many times, when you break a country based on religion lines you cant expect one to become religious autonomy and the other to remain secular. This hypocritical arrangement will never work. Not sure why this so difficult for some to understand.

Muslims wanted a seperate land for them based on their religion and that is how Pakistan was formed. We agree on this point so far? Now since muslims have got their own country, remaining hindus in India also have all the right to spread hinduism or hindutva in India. Agree or not? Not sure why it is considered bigoted or why it is a headache for my Pakistani friends. Also, a lie being sold that Pakistan wanted religious autonomy and India wanted to remain secular. No sir that is incorrect. When Britishers divided the country, they did based on religious lines. East and West Pakistan for muslims, India for hindu majority. Then during partition the people who couldnt move like Pakistani hindus or Indian muslims, they all stayed back. Its a differemt story that Indian muslims flourished and we all know the truth about minorities in Pakistan/Bangladesh. But that aside, the idea of division itself was never to make Pakistan for muslims and keep India secular. It was later Indira Gandhi who changed the preamble of consitution (42nd Amendement) and added the term 'socialist secular democratic republic' for her personal gains (aka vote bank).


What Modi is doing is just making people aware of history, the same forgotten history that was wiped out by Congress. The spread of hindutva will never die down until Indian becomes hindu rastra which will eventually happen anyway. The real reason being the two nation theory is sitting on an hypocritical arrangement and as you know any hypocricy cant last forever.


This is actually interesting.
Should India start calling all it's IT folks and all NRI's back home from every country in the world because if there should be no place for Muslims and Christians and Jewish etc to flourish, thrive, develop and prosper in India then there should be no place for Hindus in countries like USA, England, Australia, Gulf Countries and every other country in the world. No?

If your kind is happy in support of a "Hindu Rastra" India and OK to burn down a Church or disrupt a Christmas party, or burn down a mosque and stop Muslims from praying Friday prayers and issue public statements for communal violence against non-Hindus , then you should at least have an iota of shame (if not bravery and self respect) to not allow any Hindu to visit a Christian or Muslim country for work and seek a better life. No?

I would be actually interesting to see Hindu Fanatics who support and/or commit atrocities against minorities in India, start attacking and abusing the families of NRI's because those Indians are working for Christians and Muslims in our other countries.

Keep spreading the hate modi What a leader

Lagao aag

Lagegi aag to aayege ghar kai jad me
Yaha pe sirf hamara makan thodi hain
Modi ke baap ka hindustan thodi hai

Yep that's great.
Modi has done what ISI could've not done in years.
The uprising of fascism in India puts the country on a path that simply leads to self destruction, while the poster above surely is hopeful that it will happen (India will become a Hindu Rashtra).
 
Far from being a great warrior Its a fact that shiva used guerilla hit and run raid tactics

He was also no nationalist He self served and conquered areas like others to pillage, loot, spread terror and to enhance his own power

It was all self serving, under his reign many innocent men, women and children were killed

To call him a great nationalist is simply false propoganda being shoved down peoples throats as the truth

He was simply another self serving dictator of his time
 
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Aurangzeb was an indian by all current modern day definitions

No. Just being born in India doesn't give you Indian citizenship even today.

Its amusing how pakistanis are going out on one leg to declare someone an Indian.
 
These lies that you and modi are forcibly shoveing down peoples throats wont work no matter how loudly or regularly you shout them

Aurangzeb was an indian ruler of the majority of the subcontinent

The only reason hes despised is because he was muslim which in modis india is a crime initself

No matter how much pakistanis want to shove these foreigners as Indians, it won't matter in India.You can keep whining and crying about it in pakistan, while in India they will be despised as bigoted tyrannical looting invaders.
 
No. Just being born in India doesn't give you Indian citizenship even today.

Its amusing how pakistanis are going out on one leg to declare someone an Indian.

Your opinion doesnt mstter You cant change history or distort facts
 
Far from being a great warrior Its a fact that shiva used guerilla hit and run raid tactics

He was also no nationalist He self served and conquered areas like others to pillage, loot, spread terror and to enhance his own power

It was all self serving, under his reign many innocent men, women and children were killed

To call him a great nationalist is simply false propoganda being shoved down peoples throats as the truth

He was simply another self serving dictator of his time

Thats your opinion. You can ask pakistan government to keep that as their official version.

In India Shivaji maharaj is a hero who put the foundation for the Maratha Empire that literally destroyed the bigoted tyrannical looting rule of the Mughals.
 
Secularism has nothing to do with calling a invading tyrannical bigot what he is.

Aurangzeb like his predecessors was from a invading horde from central Asia. Just being born in India doesn't mean anything. Even today, one has to have Indian parents to have Indian citizenship. The Mughals were foreigners who continued to follow their foreign culture and language and tried their best to impose that on the locals by force.

Far from it, he was way down the dynastic line so in no was he an invader; he was as much Indian as the next Shivaji, Ranji or Pa'aji.

He built more temples than he destroyed and opposed bigotry against Hindus & Shia Muslims. I mean this guy is a modern day saint compared to the fascist modi.

Also worth mentioning that under his reign, India became the world's largest economy and biggest manufacturing power.

I've got nothing against Shivaji but for the Hindutva to exalt him and paint Azb as some sort of monster is ridiculous.

Hindutva indulge in the harassment and attacks on Muslims, yet Shivaji was a liberal who tolerated religious practices of non Hindus.
 
No matter how much pakistanis want to shove these foreigners as Indians, it won't matter in India.You can keep whining and crying about it in pakistan, while in India they will be despised as bigoted tyrannical looting invaders.

This isn't shoved by Pakistanis. It's considered fact by historians whatever their nationality may be.
 
No matter how much pakistanis want to shove these foreigners as Indians, it won't matter in India.You can keep whining and crying about it in pakistan, while in India they will be despised as bigoted tyrannical looting invaders.

An ethnic Marathi person is no hero for a Gujarati like Modi or a Bengali such as yourself, y'all need to find heroes native to your land :))
 
An ethnic Marathi person is no hero for a Gujarati like Modi or a Bengali such as yourself, y'all need to find heroes native to your land :))
Guys like Joshilla go on about our ancestors in these type of threads usually in a critical way.

However its quite likely that the descendants of Shivaji that he is lionising in this thread, put to death or raped his Hindu ancestors in Bengal.

Yet they laugh at Pakistanis and call us confused :))
 
Far from it, he was way down the dynastic line so in no was he an invader; he was as much Indian as the next Shivaji, Ranji or Pa'aji.

He built more temples than he destroyed and opposed bigotry against Hindus & Shia Muslims. I mean this guy is a modern day saint compared to the fascist modi.

Also worth mentioning that under his reign, India became the world's largest economy and biggest manufacturing power.

I've got nothing against Shivaji but for the Hindutva to exalt him and paint Azb as some sort of monster is ridiculous.

Hindutva indulge in the harassment and attacks on Muslims, yet Shivaji was a liberal who tolerated religious practices of non Hindus.

His dynasty was not Indian, so doesn't matter how down the dynastic line he came from.

He killed sikh gurus, destroyed hindu temples, levied the jaziya on non muslims. He was a bigoted looting tyrant and is seen as such in India.

Pakistanis can keep calling him a saint or hero or may be a Pakistani, doesn't matter one bit in India, here he is a third rate villain and thats how his name and dynasty will be treated.
 
This isn't shoved by Pakistanis. It's considered fact by historians whatever their nationality may be.

Which historian? How many of them Indian?

No amount of white washing by historians will change what hindus and sikhs think of that bigoted dynasty. Thats what matters.
 
An ethnic Marathi person is no hero for a Gujarati like Modi or a Bengali such as yourself, y'all need to find heroes native to your land :))

Now people sitting in Karachi will decide who is a hero for a Gujarati or Bengali?

Shivaji was as much a native to us as any other Indian origin king who fought the invading hordes.
 
Guys like Joshilla go on about our ancestors in these type of threads usually in a critical way.

However its quite likely that the descendants of Shivaji that he is lionising in this thread, put to death or raped his Hindu ancestors in Bengal.

Yet they laugh at Pakistanis and call us confused :))

Shivaji never attacked Bengal.

Marathas first attacked nawab ali vardi khan in 1741. Shivaji passed away in 1680.

If not for the Marathas even western bengal would have been converted into muslim majority by the bigoted nawabs. The Marathas restricted the expansion of muslim rulers into western bengal and Odisha.

The hindu jagirdars of nawabs, the Dutch and British settlers supported the nawabs for obvious reasons. Hence the conflict between the forces of the hindu jagirdars and the Marathas.
 
Shivaji never attacked Bengal.

Marathas first attacked nawab ali vardi khan in 1741. Shivaji passed away in 1680.

If not for the Marathas even western bengal would have been converted into muslim majority by the bigoted nawabs. The Marathas restricted the expansion of muslim rulers into western bengal and Odisha.

The hindu jagirdars of nawabs, the Dutch and British settlers supported the nawabs for obvious reasons. Hence the conflict between the forces of the hindu jagirdars and the Marathas.

Marathas wrecked havoc in Bengal, they murdered hundreds of thousands of people, looted and plundered the area for a long stretch of time. Marathas were referred to as bargis in Bengal and they were known as barbarians and looters in Bengal. To Bengal, marathas were foreign invaders.

In Bengal, Baro Bhuiyans under the leadership of Isa Khan had both muslim & hindu landlords who opposed and fought against the Mughal empire. So your Hindu vs Muslim historical narrative is wrong atleast when it comes to the history of Bengal.

Alauddin Hossein Shah the first Sultan of greater Bengal is known as the chief patron of bangla language & literature in the mid era of bangla language history. Under the patronage of the sultan and later his Son(became Sultan himself) both Ramayan and Mahavarat were translated into Bangla.
 
Which historian? How many of them Indian?

No amount of white washing by historians will change what hindus and sikhs think of that bigoted dynasty. Thats what matters.


Which historian? How many of them Indian?

Experts in their field? They're not going to start throwing around theories, but put forward their arguments based on years of research, this is what Historians do.

No amount of white washing by historians will change what hindus and sikhs think of that bigoted dynasty. Thats what matters.

Fair enough, but are you the spokesman for all Hindus and Sikhs? Regardless of what anyone thinks, the Mughal dynasty is undisputedly one of the greatest empires of India.
 
A very old artifact of bangla literature named "sunnopuran" narrates the tale of atrocity and torture of the buddhists at the hands of bramhin baidic hindus.
In Bengal, buddhists were severely persecuted in the Sen(Hindu) dynasty. So sub-continent wasn't some magic paradise before the muslim invasion.

I feel India under BJP is going in the same direction as Pakistan in teaching false history to the masses. In Pakistan, the invaders and looters are glorified because of their religious identity and in India, rulers like Akbar who was a true indian are deemed as foreign invaders.
Another absurdity is portraying barbarians like marathas as heroes who were much more brutal than mughals and were only concerned with looting and plundering.
 
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Shivaji never attacked Bengal.

Marathas first attacked nawab ali vardi khan in 1741. Shivaji passed away in 1680.

If not for the Marathas even western bengal would have been converted into muslim majority by the bigoted nawabs. The Marathas restricted the expansion of muslim rulers into western bengal and Odisha.

The hindu jagirdars of nawabs, the Dutch and British settlers supported the nawabs for obvious reasons. Hence the conflict between the forces of the hindu jagirdars and the Marathas.

Im aware of the history, I didn't say Shivaji attacked Bengal but mentioned that his successors and descendants did.

The point is that its not as black as white as fundamentalists make it.

If you see Aurungzeb as a plunderer, but not the ideological sons of Shivaji who most likely killed and raped your bengali ancestors,then its obvious you are motivated by hatred of muslims.
 
What is the historical importance of this Shivaji? Seems like a footnote of history because nowhere where Indian civilizations are talked about is he mentioned. Usually read about Mauryas, Ashoka, Mughals and the British colonizers.

I had heard a bit about him and googled him and it seems his empire itself, if it can be called that, itself caused widespread death and destruction in Indian states such as Bengal killing or injuring millions.
 
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