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Which is worse, the Australia ball-tampering scandal or the spot-fixing saga of 2010?

MenInG

MenInG

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ICC doesnt think both are same. But what do you make of it? Worst, same or no comparison?
 
No comparison. Selling your country out for a few bucks will always be the most disgusting act you can do as a sportsman.
 
MenInG said:
ICC doesnt think both are same. But what do you make of it? Worst, same or no comparison?
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How can tampering a ball, albeit premeditated by the captain, compare with underperforming after taking bribes?
 
One group sold their country for a few dollars but did not affect the outcome of the match.

The other group embarrassed their country and cheated to help effect the outcome of the match.

I will say that although the former is slightly more poor, the latter will be remembered for generations to come; because it raises questions about the legitimacy of Australian victories in the past.
 
Fixing is much worse . Selling your country out is the lowest of the low.
 
That fixing issue is incomparable - here Smith & Co tried to stay in a game for their country, albeit unfair/illegal way - comparing that to take money for under performing, wearing your national color ........

One similar outcome I can see though. Ever since I started watching cricket, I found PAK team to be bold, proud, confident to an extent to arrogance - from Imran to Shoaib hardly any PAK player will fall back in a confrontation, eye ball to eye ball encounter, a body contact ....... after that 2010 incident, I found PAK players totally different on field - some credit might go to Misbah, but deep inside, I found PAK players to be shamed, almost submissive - their core of confidence was shaken. Something I found coming back in the next generation, who has no baggage from that 2010 era - Hasan, Shadab, Fakhar, Raees, Sarfraz, Yasir even Babar - these guys will return back what they get.

Similarly, I feel, we'll see a different AUS team going forward - an Aussie side that's humble on field, shy in press conference, polite in verbal encounters - an Aussie side that doesn't sledge, doesn't draw own line, doesn't retaliate, doesn't inflict mental dis-integration ......... If so, I'll miss that ugly Aussie side - hardly you get the chance to hate (no hard feelings) but with utmost respect.
 
MMHS said:
That fixing issue is incomparable - here Smith & Co tried to stay in a game for their country, albeit unfair/illegal way - comparing that to take money for under performing, wearing your national color ........

One similar outcome I can see though. Ever since I started watching cricket, I found PAK team to be bold, proud, confident to an extent to arrogance - from Imran to Shoaib hardly any PAK player will fall back in a confrontation, eye ball to eye ball encounter, a body contact ....... after that 2010 incident, I found PAK players totally different on field - some credit might go to Misbah, but deep inside, I found PAK players to be shamed, almost submissive - their core of confidence was shaken. Something I found coming back in the next generation, who has no baggage from that 2010 era - Hasan, Shadab, Fakhar, Raees, Sarfraz, Yasir even Babar - these guys will return back what they get.

Similarly, I feel, we'll see a different AUS team going forward - an Aussie side that's humble on field, shy in press conference, polite in verbal encounters - an Aussie side that doesn't sledge, doesn't draw own line, doesn't retaliate, doesn't inflict mental dis-integration ......... If so, I'll miss that ugly Aussie side - hardly you get the chance to hate (no hard feelings) but with utmost respect.
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AUS is going to have to rebuild like in the mid 80’s with a Border like captain again. They will be a champion side regardless in the future.
 
ManFan said:
AUS is going to have to rebuild like in the mid 80’s with a Border like captain again. They will be a champion side regardless in the future.
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Indeed, they will - their system is too good not to cover such small hick-ups.

I was talking about different thing though - after ChappelI, Lillee era Border's team indeed recovered from the slump; however not sure if ever any AUS side had to rebuild their "standard" when it comes to on-field ugliness. Here, we might see something new - I hope teams playing against Aussies don't start the game with everyone scratching something in their undi ......... Aussies will definitely learn few things about mental dis-integration for sure, just wait and see.
 
MMHS said:
Indeed, they will - their system is too good not to cover such small hick-ups.

I was talking about different thing though - after ChappelI, Lillee era Border's team indeed recovered from the slump; however not sure if ever any AUS side had to rebuild their "standard" when it comes to on-field ugliness. Here, we might see something new - I hope teams playing against Aussies don't start the game with everyone scratching something in their undi ......... Aussies will definitely learn few things about mental dis-integration for sure, just wait and see.
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Very interesting times ahead for cricket fans.
 
MMHS said:
That fixing issue is incomparable - here Smith & Co tried to stay in a game for their country, albeit unfair/illegal way - comparing that to take money for under performing, wearing your national color ........

One similar outcome I can see though. Ever since I started watching cricket, I found PAK team to be bold, proud, confident to an extent to arrogance - from Imran to Shoaib hardly any PAK player will fall back in a confrontation, eye ball to eye ball encounter, a body contact ....... after that 2010 incident, I found PAK players totally different on field - some credit might go to Misbah, but deep inside, I found PAK players to be shamed, almost submissive - their core of confidence was shaken. Something I found coming back in the next generation, who has no baggage from that 2010 era - Hasan, Shadab, Fakhar, Raees, Sarfraz, Yasir even Babar - these guys will return back what they get.

Similarly, I feel, we'll see a different AUS team going forward - an Aussie side that's humble on field, shy in press conference, polite in verbal encounters - an Aussie side that doesn't sledge, doesn't draw own line, doesn't retaliate, doesn't inflict mental dis-integration ......... If so, I'll miss that ugly Aussie side - hardly you get the chance to hate (no hard feelings) but with utmost respect.
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Good insight. Pakistan lost its soul for a long time. The new boys will return it. As long as Malik and Hafeez aren't there to temper it.
 
What concerns me is how players from Pakistan who have fixed matches, done spot-fixing and tampered with a cricket ball are now regarded as heroes as if they are whiter than white. Quite shameful really.
 
1) Match Fixing
2) Spot Fixing

-- GAP--

3) Ball Tampering

Doing something for money vs. trying to win a game for your country (still not guaranteed!) can never be compared. It's not even close.
 
Ball tampering versus bowling no-balls

This may sound strange and bizarre but I often think about strange things.

Amir bowled couple of no-balls which gave the oppisition two runs in Test cricket, allright, those two runs will hardly affect a 5 day match.

And then you have a team who tamper with the ball and if done significantly you really have poteantail to blow away the opposition and actually affect the end-result.

So purely on cricketing results, the tampering of the ball has more potential to affect the results than bowling two no-balls.

I agree that in spot fixing there are alot of money involved, but takling about cricket alone I felt handing down a 5 years ban contra 1 match suspension was very harsh by ICC. And this actually strengthens my view that the ban of 2 year would have been sufficient for Amir at least. And ICC could have done something to chance the minimum periode of their bans in their laws.

PCB on the other hand could have given Amir a life-ban, that would have come under discussion of course but they could start with that.

But ICC should have given Smith and co a lengthier ban and this goes for everyone else who does this, they should change their laws in this regard.
 
IAJ said:
This may sound strange and bizarre but I often think about strange things.

Amir bowled couple of no-balls which gave the oppisition two runs in Test cricket, allright, those two runs will hardly affect a 5 day match.

And then you have a team who tamper with the ball and if done significantly you really have poteantail to blow away the opposition and actually affect the end-result.

So purely on cricketing results, the tampering of the ball has more potential to affect the results than bowling two no-balls.

I agree that in spot fixing there are alot of money involved, but takling about cricket alone I felt handing down a 5 years ban contra 1 match suspension was very harsh by ICC. And this actually strengthens my view that the ban of 2 year would have been sufficient for Amir at least. And ICC could have done something to chance the minimum periode of their bans in their laws.

PCB on the other hand could have given Amir a life-ban, that would have come under discussion of course but they could start with that.

But ICC should have given Smith and co a lengthier ban and this goes for everyone else who does this, they should change their laws in this regard.
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This is where a few issue will arise.

Does an action deserves the consequences only if the potential destruction happens?

Here, you are agreeing that, the culprit deserves the punishment only if the potential destruction happens. Otherwise let him be free with just smack on the back of the head.

I certainly disagree. Whatever the consequences may be, the action itself calls for the punishment without taking any regards of whatever the destruction has happened.

Coming to the point, fixing is million times worse than cheating.

Cheating happened over the principle of nationalism where you will make judgements whether it is right or wrong but to bring your country to the top.

Fixing is something that benefits only a small group while bringing down a major share of population betraying even your own people. It has no sense of responsibility, pride or commitment towards anyone. You become just a mercenary who will go wherever money leads to.

Since if you talked about the affecting cricket, let me state this.

On short term, it does look like the no balls had less affect than the tempering ball.

But this again brings the integrity of cricket. Just from a cricketing point of view, a fixing scandal has much greater impact in the integrity than the tempering balls. This will affect greater audience of people where they will ask whether players are genuine or not.

In simple terms, it is like comparing a granade explosion with a nuclear bomb. Both has a characteristics of destruction, but one creates a chain of events which may demolish the whole system.

You are viewing the impact only based upon the match. If you bring broader area, you'll see how differently both the case influences the external affairs.
 
2 runs do affect a test match. And can't equate cheating your nation for money to bowling 2 no-balls.
 
By the way it took Smith, Warner and Bancroft a few days to own up and confess - it took Butt, Asif several years to admit their guilt.
 
I dont really like when people start saying the usual "oh he sold his country for a few bucks". ( Nobody sells their country otherwise we would all be slaves :yk ). I think this pov is emotionally charged and quite rubbish in my view.

I am sure everyone will agree that all these cases of corruption or cheating very rarely arise in cricket. It is possible to look at them on a case to case basis and not have a fixed punishment for all. Punishments should be handed out depending upon how the offence affects the integrity of the game, the emotional and financial investment of the fans and sponsors, the eventual outcome of the match itself etc.

Fact is, In terms of affecting the eventual outcome of the game - Ball tampering is worse than Spot Fixing .

However, legally speaking, Spot fixing is the bigger crime compared to ball tampering because it is corruption.

Match fixing however remains the worst crime in cricket ever no matter which way you look at it.
 
Ball tampering also affects the state of the ball more than spot fixing does. Ball tampering - Spot fixing: 0-1
Ball tampering also affects the total number of foreign objects in the field. Ball tampering - Spot fixing: 0-2

What's the use of these comparisons when we all know that spot fixing is a far worse crime than ball tampering?

Ps. We don't know if those were the only 2 no-balls bowled (read fixed) by Amir and Asif, as far as I remember the bookie wanted to demonstrate his control over the players to the agent. Those 2 no-balls showed that the duo along with Butt were in his pocket and could (or may have already) execute far bigger things on the field.
 
Saj said:
What concerns me is how players from Pakistan who have fixed matches, done spot-fixing and tampered with a cricket ball are now regarded as heroes as if they are whiter than white. Quite shameful really.
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Uhmm ok and who are these players?
 
No comparison here
 
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In terms of Cricket, ball tampering is far worse.

Spot fixing isn't cheating as there is no advantage to be gained, where as ball tampering is cheating where an advantage is gained. A couple of no-balls/wides isn't going to change the outcome of a Test match, whereas ball tampering can, and has proven to do so.

All this talk of spot fixing is akin to selling your country is nonsense. Spot fixing takes place at International and national levels too, not forgetting T20 leagues. Are all culprits selling their country? No. Selling their integrity and trust, but not their country.

SandpaperGate is far worse because a) it is cheating, and b) it involves Australia Captain, Vice Captain, and Bancroft, to mention head coach who has resigned too. Remember, up until now Australia boasted about playing hard and fair, not anymore, and c) it will now reveal just how strong/poor current Australian bowlers are.
 
shaz619 said:
Salman Butt, Sheik Wasim Akram, Peer Mohammad Amir and Mohammad Asif
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Waqar Younis has actually been charged for ball tampering. There are questions on Inzy and Mushy's involvement in match fixing.
 
In the damage it has done to the two teams, they are both exactly the same. It took a man like Misbah and two years of solid hard graft by the new side to improve Pakistan's cricketing reputation. Australia too will need a man with integrity and a period of time when they not only play attractive cricket, BUT do so within the confines of the law, with reduced sledging and this animalistic behaviour they showcased for so long.
 
you do ball tampering to win a match for your country. fixing does the opposite lol It is obvious which is worse
 
One is done to hurt your own team, the other to hurt the opposition. One is against the law, the other is against the laws of the game.
 
Match-fixing/Spot-fixing is much much worse. To even compare the two needs ones head-wobbling.
 
Cheating is Cheating according to the hardline adopted against Pakistan. Same rules should apply to the aussies.
 
Saj said:
What concerns me is how players from Pakistan who have fixed matches, done spot-fixing and tampered with a cricket ball are now regarded as heroes as if they are whiter than white. Quite shameful really.
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Didnt Sachin get convicted of ball tampering as well.
 
Savak said:
Cheating is Cheating according to the hardline adopted against Pakistan. Same rules should apply to the aussies.
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Do you believe there is one set of rules for Pakistan and another for rest of the world?
 
This is not even a comparison. It's very hard to believe that selling your country is being compared with ball tampering.
 
Easily the current Aussie tampering.

Reverse swing could have caused more damage had the Aussies not been caught, Australia could have won the series even.

There is no way ever you are telling me England would have largely benefitted because of what 2-3 no balls?

You have to see what has more impact on the game.

Same way you will not sentence a thief to die but might sentence a murderer because of the bigger impact.

Those saying the no balls are worse clearly felt pained by the events and felt it was personal, more over a betrayal, but I am not an emotional person and more of a realist.
 
Lol at the Spot fixing scandal. The event got blown out of proportion thanks to the power of the British Media. It has got to be this Australian cheating scandal, it even upset the prime minister who called for a life ban on the cricketers. Episode proved that the aussies are a bunch of cheating pansies.
 
Savak said:
Lol at the Spot fixing scandal. The event got blown out of proportion thanks to the power of the British Media. It has got to be this Australian cheating scandal, it even upset the prime minister who called for a life ban on the cricketers. Episode proved that the aussies are a bunch of cheating pansies.
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You realize that cheating to win a game is violating the rules within that sport while taking a bribe is a crime in pretty much every country on earth?

I mean are you seriously that naive?

Power of British media lol, the players served jail sentences for spot fixing under the law compared to this where here it was purely based on ethics.

Kudos to Australian public and media for sticking to ethics.

I don’t think people will have a countdown clock for the cheats though
 
The 2010 fixing scandal was pretty bad. It is terrible to sell your country for a couple dollars but it did not have any impact on the outcome of the game. While ball tampering, on the other hand, does have an impact on the outcome of the game, so in my book, I think ball tampering is worse if you think about cricket. But if you think about morals the fixing scandal was worse.
 
sully3 said:
Didnt Sachin get convicted of ball tampering as well.
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Doesn't matter who the player is or where they are from, if they cheat in any guise then accepting them as heroes later is pretty sad.
 
Lol @ some posters trying to play down Amir and Asif's sins.

Spot fixing , so you can help your country lose runs or under perform and also taking money in the process for doing such a noble deed is less worse than a tampered ball where you dont get any money and try to win the match.

Now I've seen a lot of chauvinism on this forum but this one tops the cake.
 
blue_champion said:
You realize that cheating to win a game is violating the rules within that sport while taking a bribe is a crime in pretty much every country on earth?

I mean are you seriously that naive?

Power of British media lol, the players served jail sentences for spot fixing under the law compared to this where here it was purely based on ethics.

Kudos to Australian public and media for sticking to ethics.

I don’t think people will have a countdown clock for the cheats though
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Taking a bribe is a crime in pretty much every country? Since when? Last time I checked Pak/Indian players were not jailed after the 90s fixing fiasco. As I recall it, Mohammed A was allowed to become a politican?

The trio were not jailed for Spot fixing, but we're jailed because they conspired to cheat at gambling.
 
Worse for who? For Aus or for Pakistan?
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Lol @ some posters trying to play down Amir and Asif's sins.

Spot fixing , so you can help your country lose runs or under perform and also taking money in the process for doing such a noble deed is less worse than a tampered ball where you dont get any money and try to win the match.

Now I've seen a lot of chauvinism on this forum but this one tops the cake.
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A simple case of contrarianism.
 
sully3 said:
Didnt Sachin get convicted of ball tampering as well.
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Not really. ICC amended the charges to "Cleaning Ball without Umpires consent" . If he had asked the umpires they would have pretty much done the same thing.
 
I am not even going to go into offences. The likes of Warne, Darren Lehman, Clarke and co coming out in the media in support of their fellow country men "Good people can make mistakes", why wasn't this principle "Good people can make mistakes" applied to Salman Butt, Mohammad Asif, Mohammad Amir in 2010?
 
Savak said:
I am not even going to go into offences. The likes of Warne, Darren Lehman, Clarke and co coming out in the media in support of their fellow country men "Good people can make mistakes", why wasn't this principle "Good people can make mistakes" applied to Salman Butt, Mohammad Asif, Mohammad Amir in 2010?
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Because Savak, in the eyes of the rest of the world, ball tempering is a far lesser crime than spot fixing.

When you fix, you sell out your country.

When you temper the ball, you resort to illegal way to win. But you aren't selling out the country.

To you or perhaps a few more people here, latter is a bigger crime. But that's not the case for peers and non Pakistani fans. The former will get very less sympathy due to gravity of the crime.
 
Itachi said:
Because Savak, in the eyes of the rest of the world, ball tempering is a far lesser crime than spot fixing.

When you fix, you sell out your country.

When you temper the ball, you resort to illegal way to win. But you aren't selling out the country.

To you or perhaps a few more people here, latter is a bigger crime. But that's not the case for peers and non Pakistani fans. The former will get very less sympathy due to gravity of the crime.
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Spot fixing technically speaking is not selling your country because you are not deliberately throwing the match and deliberately planning to lose the match for your country.

I am just trying to highlight the hypocricy in the West, had this punishment for ball tampering been given to a Pakistani player, none of the Western players, media would have been outraged.

But what about the defence "Good people can make mistakes". Why is it being used for Steve Smith and David Warner? Why wasn't it applicable to Salman Butt and Mohammad Amir when they had clean records before the spot fixing event?
 
Saj said:
What concerns me is how players from Pakistan who have fixed matches, done spot-fixing and tampered with a cricket ball are now regarded as heroes as if they are whiter than white. Quite shameful really.
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I’m fairly certain you and I have had debates regarding Salman Butt where you’ve advocated for his inclusion in the national team recently.

Not only is it preposterous to recall a captain that sold his country in his 5th test as captain but the inclusion would be unmerited as well if we factor in his performances.
 
Spot fixing and it's not even close, one of the worst days to be a Pakistani Cricket fan/Cricket fan in general.
 
2018 - 24th March:

All hell broke loose when on day three of the Cape Town Test, Cameron Bancroft and Steven Smith admitted to ball-tampering after TV cameras picked up Bancroft trying to shove a small yellow object - which turned out to be sandpaper - down his trousers, having earlier used it on the ball. At a press conference after play that day, Smith said the team's leadership group had discussed tampering while looking for a way to get the ball to reverse. Cricket Australia had Smith and David Warner, his vice-captain, step down from their posts on day four of the Test - a day when South Africa wrapped up a huge win, with Morne Morkel, playing his final series, taking career-best figures of 9 for 110. The board then banned Smith and Warner, who they said had hatched the whole plan, for a year, and Bancroft for nine months from international and domestic cricket.
 
The ball tampering was diabolical. In the bigger scheme of things, spot fixing a couple of no balls doesn't impact the game. But here, the bowlers and their skills from previous series was questioned. The impact on that particular game was huge if they weren't caught. They probably did it for years and would have done it for years if they weren't caught
 
rhony said:
The ball tampering was diabolical. In the bigger scheme of things, spot fixing a couple of no balls doesn't impact the game. But here, the bowlers and their skills from previous series was questioned. The impact on that particular game was huge if they weren't caught. They probably did it for years and would have done it for years if they weren't caught
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Imagine claiming trying to win for your team and country (even by cheating) is worse than selling you country out for a slimy bookie. You are wearing your team and country's colors and bowling for a bookie?

But, but its only a couple of no-balls. Yes, a couple of no-balls, bowled on behalf of a bookie, while you wear your countrys color and represent your country's team

Man, has to be one of the worst take ever. According to you trying to win for your country is worse than betraying your country
 
Savak said:
Spot fixing technically speaking is not selling your country because you are not deliberately throwing the match and deliberately planning to lose the match for your country.



?
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You are wearing your country's color and flag and bowling for a bookie. How is that not selling your country out? For those few balls you sold your country out. I guess little treason is ok then. I was not selling the entire match, just a couple of balls. While wearing my country's colors and representing my country in front of the world

I will never ever understand some people here, its like you have zero pride in your country or what it stands for
 
Indiafan said:
Imagine claiming trying to win for your team and country (even by cheating) is worse than selling you country out for a slimy bookie. You are wearing your team and country's colors and bowling for a bookie?

But, but its only a couple of no-balls. Yes, a couple of no-balls, bowled on behalf of a bookie, while you wear your countrys color and represent your country's team

Man, has to be one of the worst take ever. According to you trying to win for your country is worse than betraying your country
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If we can get over the overhyped patriotism aspect, the biggest danger is the ball tampering. Especially because it's the aussies. The snobby aussies with their judgemental eyes had hoodwinked rest of the countries for god knows how long. On the other hand you had a few pakistani cricketers that bowled no balls for a few bucks that had no impact on the game.

From a fan's perspective, deceit from the aussies was a bigger jolt because u do not expect them to do this. You lose faith in the system and start questioning every result. And that's what happened. The damage to the game was huge as Australia is a top team and always claim to play the game hard but fair. That's why CA went on overdrive with the PR.

On the other hand, there were more than a few cricketers that were caught fixing from the subcontinent over the years. This wasn't even a match fixing. It's just a spot fix that didn't impact the game at all. It got the hype because of Amir. From a fan's perspective, it was "seen this already". People moved on quick enough.
 
All the Pakistan fans saying ball tampering is worse than fixing, you do know that Waqar,Wasim,and Imran took part in ball tampering. So that means they are worse than Asif and Amir and any other fixers according some posters logic on here. :))) :)))

Fixing is obviously worse. You are just a biased Pakistan fan if you think ball tampering is worse. Pakistan fans will find a way to defend any wrongdoing our players or board do.
 
A cheat is a cheat

Smith and Warner doing what they did at a position of privilege makes it so much worse.
 
Hasan123 said:
All the Pakistan fans saying ball tampering is worse than fixing, you do know that Waqar,Wasim,and Imran took part in ball tampering. So that means they are worse than Asif and Amir and any other fixers according some posters logic on here. :))) :)))

Fixing is obviously worse. You are just a biased Pakistan fan if you think ball tampering is worse. Pakistan fans will find a way to defend any wrongdoing our players or board do.
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Pakistani fans will always defend their favorites with no shame.

Amir was a thumb sucking baby and shouldn’t be blamed for fixing because he was influenced by the evil Butt.

Sharjeel is a saint who got framed by Sethi who wanted to make himself look good.

Ajmal was not chucking it was just a conspiracy by BCCI to get him banned.

The list goes on.
 
Rana said:
A cheat is a cheat

Smith and Warner doing what they did at a position of privilege makes it so much worse.
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There are different levels and degrees of cheating just like there are different degrees of crime. In no court of law are all crimes considered equal because “a criminal is a criminal”.

It is not that hard to understand but the problem is that our fans do not live in the real world and cannot overcome their delusional thinking.
 
Mamoon said:
Pakistani fans will always defend their favorites with no shame.

Amir was a thumb sucking baby and shouldn’t be blamed for fixing because he was influenced by the evil Butt.

Sharjeel is a saint who got framed by Sethi who wanted to make himself look good.

Ajmal was not chucking it was just a conspiracy by BCCI to get him banned.

The list goes on.
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Sachin Tendulkar's LBW appeal turned down by DRS in the 2011 World Cup.
 
All things considered, the ball tampering saga was far more damaging to the reputation of Australian cricket than the spot fixing incident. Australia is a nation that has the greatest legacy bar none in international cricket and Australia prides itself in playing "hard but fair" cricket and never crossing "the line" in their own words. So when a batsman who is widely considered as the best batsman since Bradman and another arguably among the best Australian test openers ever got embroiled in the ball tampering controversy, the reputation of Australian cricket took a huge hit. A superstar athlete getting caught in a huge controversy at the peak of his powers is far more damaging than an upcoming youngster like Amir getting banned for spot fixing. Obviously it's not as bad as that, but it's a bit like Lance Armstrong getting caught in the doping case.

The ball tampering saga was bad enough that the entire cricketing world heaped criticism on the culture of Australian cricket, partly warranted and partly in schadenfreude. It was embarrassing enough for Australians themselves that it made news in the Australian parliament and forced the Australian PM to make comments on it. It's because right from the old days, the Australian test captain is considered one of the greatest Australian ambassadors for the nation as cricket is intertwined in the culture of Australia as a country, even if it might not be as popular as AFL nowadays. So this was something unprecedented when it comes to Australia, the Trevor Chappell underarm incident notwithstanding, and it shook Australian cricket to the core so much so that they banned their best player for a year when the ICC would have just given a slap on the wrist.

In comparison, the spot fixing incident was not something unprecedented for any of the subcontinent teams, especially for Pakistan cricket which has had its fair share of controversies. Amir was an upcoming talented youngster, and Butt was a decent player. Only Asif could be considered someone who was a top player when he got caught. So while ball tampering, in itself might be a much less serious crime than spot fixing, it had far reaching negative consequences for Australian cricket than the spot fixing saga for Pakistan cricket.
 
street cricketer said:
All things considered, the ball tampering saga was far more damaging to the reputation of Australian cricket than the spot fixing incident. Australia is a nation that has the greatest legacy bar none in international cricket and Australia prides itself in playing "hard but fair" cricket and never crossing "the line" in their own words. So when a batsman who is widely considered as the best batsman since Bradman and another arguably among the best Australian test openers ever got embroiled in the ball tampering controversy, the reputation of Australian cricket took a huge hit. A superstar athlete getting caught in a huge controversy at the peak of his powers is far more damaging than an upcoming youngster like Amir getting banned for spot fixing. Obviously it's not as bad as that, but it's a bit like Lance Armstrong getting caught in the doping case.

The ball tampering saga was bad enough that the entire cricketing world heaped criticism on the culture of Australian cricket, partly warranted and partly in schadenfreude. It was embarrassing enough for Australians themselves that it made news in the Australian parliament and forced the Australian PM to make comments on it. It's because right from the old days, the Australian test captain is considered one of the greatest Australian ambassadors for the nation as cricket is intertwined in the culture of Australia as a country, even if it might not be as popular as AFL nowadays. So this was something unprecedented when it comes to Australia, the Trevor Chappell underarm incident notwithstanding, and it shook Australian cricket to the core so much so that they banned their best player for a year when the ICC would have just given a slap on the wrist.

In comparison, the spot fixing incident was not something unprecedented for any of the subcontinent teams, especially for Pakistan cricket which has had its fair share of controversies. Amir was an upcoming talented youngster, and Butt was a decent player. Only Asif could be considered someone who was a top player when he got caught. So while ball tampering, in itself might be a much less serious crime than spot fixing, it had far reaching negative consequences for Australian cricket than the spot fixing saga for Pakistan cricket.
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If Jhye Richardson (Amir type newbie), Hazlewood (Asif type veteran), Payne (Captain) get caught spot fixing there will be far more negative consequences than ball tempering saga.
 
Lol at people trying desperately to play down spot fixing. Everyone and their pet dog knows that selling your country's honour for a few bucks is a 100 times worse and disgraceful than tampering with the ball to make your team win.

That whole sandpaper saga was overblown out of proportion by the Aussie media. You can only imagine what they'd do if three of their players get caught in spot-fixing and then come to a judgement on which one's the "bigger crime".
 
JattMaula said:
If Jhye Richardson (Amir type newbie), Hazlewood (Asif type veteran), Payne (Captain) get caught spot fixing there will be far more negative consequences than ball tempering saga.
Click to expand...


Pretty much this.

I'm sure they won't be allowed anywhere near their state teams in any capacity let alone make a comeback into the national team.
 
JattMaula said:
If Jhye Richardson (Amir type newbie), Hazlewood (Asif type veteran), Payne (Captain) get caught spot fixing there will be far more negative consequences than ball tempering saga.
Click to expand...

Sure but we are not comparing spot fixing and ball tampering controversies for Australian cricket alone here.

This thread is a comparison about the ball tampering incident for Australia and the spot fixing incident for Pakistan. And I maintain that the ball tampering saga damaged the reputation of Australian cricket more than the spot fixing incident did for Pakistan. When the spot fixing saga was unfolding, while people were clearly shocked at a talented youngster falling prey to the bookies, the vibe was more like "here we go, not again" with Pakistan cricket. With Australia, we were witnessing something unprecedented happening and the general reaction among the cricketing media was like "did we just watch what just happened on TV" when Bancroft got caught red handed and the Australian cricket captain nonchalantly admitted to cheating on live TV in the post play press conference.
 
JattMaula said:
If Jhye Richardson (Amir type newbie), Hazlewood (Asif type veteran), Payne (Captain) get caught spot fixing there will be far more negative consequences than ball tempering saga.
Click to expand...

Okay I misread the thread title, just saw the title and OP now. The spot fixing incident is obviously a much worse crime when compared to ball tampering incident.

I thought the thread was about which incident had more negative consequences for the respective teams.
 
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