Which set of wicket-keeper batsmen do you prefer in Test Cricket?

[Ab Fan]

<B>Set-A</B>

Great keepers but mediocre with bat(AVG:- around 30 or less)

Ian Healy
Mark Boucher
Wridhiman Saha
Tim Paine

<B>Set-B</B>

Good keepers and good with bat

BJ Watling
Quinton de Kock
MS Dhoni

<B>Set-C</B>

Great batters but can do a good job behind gloves not as full-time though

Kumar Sangakkara
AB de Villiers
Andy Flower
Alec Stewart

There are other set of keepers as well. Sarfaraz is a good keeper, similar to Qdk and Dhoni but worse batsmen than both. Same for McCullum.

Adam Gilchrist is in a different league to all of them IMO. Allan Knott is a great keeper and probably good with bat as well.

Discuss!

 

[Last Monetarist]

Despite Stewart being a hero of mine growing up, I'd always pick a specialist keeper first. Any runs are a bonus. So Set A for me.

 

[Hasan123]

For tests matches you should try and pick a specialist. But the modern day requires a keeper to be able to contribute with the bat.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Depends on the batting lineup of your team.
If you have a settles batting lineup u should go for a specialist keeper but in case the batting lineup is weak you can't afford a prasanna jayawardene or rashid latif.

 

[Ab Fan]

I think in the modern era, the contribution with bat is by default expected from wicket-keepers.

In that context, BJ Watling is arguably the best keeper bat(including both his batting and keeping) since Adam Gilchrist.

 

[TeymurBlake]

I prefer my keeper to be a solid behind the stumps. Catches win matches.

 

[Forum363]

What category does Kamran Akmal fall under? A ridiculously large number of dropped catches/ missed stumping/ fluffing the most basic chances / clearly under performing (eg Sydney test runout). To go along with a batting career where he averages in the 20's despite playing hundreds of games?

Yet many fans continued to push for his selection and some do to this day.

 

[coy0607]

What category does Kamran Akmal fall under? A ridiculously large number of dropped catches/ missed stumping/ fluffing the most basic chances / clearly under performing (eg Sydney test runout). To go along with a batting career where he averages in the 20's despite playing hundreds of games?

Yet many fans continued to push for his selection and some do to this day.

You forgot to add that he's only 38, so at least he has a lot of time ahead of him to improve

 

[HappyWarsFan]

You forgot to add that he's only 38, so at least he has a lot of time ahead of him to improve

At least 5-6 years. He could play 2023 WC.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

On topic I'd go with category A.

 

[Last Monetarist]

It's a simple choice when you are choosing between Saha and Pant (who is nominally in set B), you'd always go for Saha unless you are a complete imbecile.

 

[maddgenius]

well. Sarfaraz is a good keeper, similar to Qdk and Dhoni but worse batsmen than both. Same for McCullum.

Mccullum is surely a better test batsman than Dhoni. Probably better than Watling to when it comes to match winning knocks rather than match saving ones

 

[Ab Fan]

It's a simple choice when you are choosing between Saha and Pant (who is nominally in set B), you'd always go for Saha unless you are a complete imbecile.

Pant is not even in set B right now. He is still a WIP. You can't call him as good a keeper as Watling or de Kock whom I have considered in set B.

 

[Ab Fan]

Mccullum is surely a better test batsman than Dhoni. Probably better than Watling to when it comes to match winning knocks rather than match saving ones

McCullum the batsmen is surely better, not the keeper though. He averages about 34 with the bat when keeping compared to Dhoni's 38. His keeping against pace was good though, similar to de Kock but not as consistent batter as him.

 

[King Kong]

It's a simple choice when you are choosing between Saha and Pant (who is nominally in set B), you'd always go for Saha unless you are a complete imbecile.

It's you who is an imbecile here, that too a complete one. Pant is a better wk against faster bowlers, and a much much better batsman, not that bad against spinners either which some clueless posters make you believe against.

 

[maddgenius]

McCullum the batsmen is surely better, not the keeper though. He averages about 34 with the bat when keeping compared to Dhoni's 38. His keeping against pace was good though, similar to de Kock but not as consistent batter as him.

Mccullum career avg: 38.6
Watling: 38.5
Dhoni's career avg: 38.1


Mccullum: 12 hundreds in 101 games (A hundred per 8.4 matches)
Watling: 7 hundred in 60 matches (A hundred per 8.8 matches)
Dhoni: 6 hundreds in 90 games (A hundred per 15 matches)

Dhoni: No hundred outside Asia
Mccullum: 3 hundreds in Asia
Watling: 1 hundred in Asia

So Mccullum whom you put in good keepers category is a better test batsman than both Watling & Dhoni in that category

 

[Last Monetarist]

Pant is not even in set B right now. He is still a WIP. You can't call him as good a keeper as Watling or de Kock whom I have considered in set B.

Meant nominally, I am liberal enough to grant that he's a talented batsman, but he's an awful keeper who will need a lot of work to even reach Dhoni standard, let alone Saha.

 

[Ab Fan]

Mccullum career avg: 38.6
Watling: 38.5
Dhoni's career avg: 38.1


Mccullum: 12 hundreds in 101 games (A hundred per 8.4 matches)
Watling: 7 hundred in 60 matches (A hundred per 8.8 matches)
Dhoni: 6 hundreds in 90 games (A hundred per 15 matches)

Dhoni: No hundred outside Asia
Mccullum: 3 hundreds in Asia
Watling: 1 hundred in Asia

So Mccullum whom you put in good keepers category is a better test batsman than both Watling & Dhoni in that category

But that is McCullum's overall record, we all know he got better when he gave up keeping and played as specialist batsmen. His triple hundred or his hundred in Asia came when he played as specialist bat, think he averages about 45 as specialist bat.

As a keeper batsmen, he was inferior to both.

MS was very good and Watling is as good as any of three, but also the best keeper of them.

 

[maddgenius]

But that is McCullum's overall record, we all know he got better when he gave up keeping and played as specialist batsmen. His triple hundred or his hundred in Asia came when he played as specialist bat, think he averages about 45 as specialist bat.

As a keeper batsmen, he was inferior to both.

MS was very good and Watling is as good as any of three, but also the best keeper of them.

This is because Mccullum the test batsman gradually improved with the time so it's not wrong to assume he'd have averaged the same even with the gloves

 

[Ab Fan]

This is because Mccullum the test batsman gradually improved with the time so it's not wrong to assume he'd have averaged the same even with the gloves

Fair point. Felt captaincy helped him get the better of himself as well.

 

[Ab Fan]

Meant nominally, I am liberal enough to grant that he's a talented batsman, but he's an awful keeper who will need a lot of work to even reach Dhoni standard, let alone Saha.

I agree, he has a lot to work on his keeping which is why I haven't put him here. But he showed signs of improvement in NZ series and the work on him is still going on because we know that we need to look for future now. Saha doesn't have much left in him.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

It's a simple choice when you are choosing between Saha and Pant (who is nominally in set B), you'd always go for Saha unless you are a complete imbecile.

I disagree with you here ,I have seen pant keep wickets in Australia and he was good(not perfect but not less than dhoni by any means).
He also has a batting average of 53 in Australia so I don't think selecting Saha in over pant will do any good .

The major problem with pant is his keeping against spin which gets almost nullified in places like SA,NZ,eng,aus.His keeping against pacers is up to the mark.

As a batsman pant can score big which Saha can't (especially away from home)also Saha's batting is not dynamic enough to play with the tailenders so it's like playing 5 tailenders in away conditions.



Saha
Ashwin
Ishant
Shami
Bumrah
That's an awful lower order which we can't afford given that we have 1.5 batsman in our team.

 

[therealAB]

the players given isn't a totally fair comparison, as you are comparing ATG bats to very good keepers.

Instead, the groups should read something like

Bari
Kirmani
Healy
Evans
Grout
Tallon

vs

Ames
De Villiers
Walcott
Flower
Sangakkara
Dravid

for instance.

For selection, it really depends on the rest of the team

 

[Ab Fan]

the players given isn't a totally fair comparison, as you are comparing ATG bats to very good keepers.

Instead, the groups should read something like

Bari
Kirmani
Healy
Evans
Grout
Tallon

vs

Ames
De Villiers
Walcott
Flower
Sangakkara
Dravid

for instance.

For selection, it really depends on the rest of the team

Interesting point. You have basically pitted Set A Vs Set C and left out Set B.

But take for example, if I have ABD in my team who can keep gloves but that will affect his workload and Qdk is also available, won't it be better for me to go with AB as my specialist batsmen and pick Qdk as keeper bat rather than asking AB to take gloves.

What would I really prefer,

To have a keeper batsmen like Qdk or Watling? Or

Ask Sanga or AB or Flower to keep wickets to accomplish extra batsmen?

 

[KP From India]

There is a difference if you come to bat after Gambhir/Jaffer, Sehwag, Dravid, Tendu, VVS, Ganguly and bat after Guptill, Mcntosh, Taylor, Williamson, bowling allrounder 1, bowling allrounder 2.

 

[FreePalestine]

Sangakarra is the MVP on this list. Arguably better than Gilchrist in test cricket. He would have the most impact from all the keepers on this list by far. Also, pretty good keeper, rarely dropped chances or missed stumpings.

Can’t pick AB as he barely kept in internationals.

 

[FreePalestine]

QDK and Boucher could also be impactful. Close behind Sanga out of the keepers on this list.

 

[therealAB]

Sangakarra is the MVP on this list. Arguably better than Gilchrist in test cricket. He would have the most impact from all the keepers on this list by far. Also, pretty good keeper, rarely dropped chances or missed stumpings.

Can’t pick AB as he barely kept in internationals.

The issues with Sanga is that he only averaged 40 while keeping, and was a worse keeper than Gilchrist

 

[Abdullah719]

Best-averaging batsmen while keeping wickets:

 

[sweep_shot]

Set-B

Good keepers and good with bat

BJ Watling
Quinton de Kock
MS Dhoni

I pick this one.

Test has evolved. You need a keeper who can both bat well and keep well.

 

[MenInG]

Some Pakistani candidates

 

[CerebralPatriot]

Current Pakistani keeper rankings:
1. Sarfraz
2. Azam
3. Haseebullah
4. Haris
5. Zeeshan Ashraf
6. Imran Siddique
7. Mohammad Aklahq
8. Rizwan Hussain
9. Rehan Afridi
10. Mohammad Rizwan

 

[BouncerGuy]

I don't even know if a few out of this list will ever play for Pakistan. Mohammad Akhlaq? He will never play test cricket for Pakistan. He is not that good TBH. Zeeshan Ashraf? Nay. Haseebullah is the future of Pakistan but this list is totally wrong for now.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Mohammad Rizwan
Sarfraz
Haseebullah
Rest of the numbering might not matter till they prove their worth for selection.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

It's a simple choice when you are choosing between Saha and Pant (who is nominally in set B), you'd always go for Saha unless you are a complete imbecile.

How did this turn out?
Specialist keepers are dead and deservedly so.

Imagine being a cricketer for 20 years and the only thing you can do satisfactorily is catch a ball, lol.

These Healy,s, Knotts etc were good for their time but none of them will ever be called great.

Pant has already surpassed all of them.

Gilchrist, Les Ames, Farokh Engineer, DeKock, Rizwan, Pant are all better than these specialist ball catchers.

The most laughable ones are Wasim Bari and Jack russel

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Current Pakistani keeper rankings:
1. Sarfraz
2. Azam
3. Haseebullah
4. Haris
5. Zeeshan Ashraf
6. Imran Siddique
7. Mohammad Aklahq
8. Rizwan Hussain
9. Rehan Afridi
10. Mohammad Rizwan

So Rizwan isn’t even the best keeper named Rizwan?