Who is the greatest ODI spinner of all time?

[Hitman]

I'm not including Murali in my list of choices for obvious reasons. In my opinion, Saqlain Mushtaq is the greatest ODI spin bowler of all time. Let's have a look at his numbers -


Matches - 169; Wickets - 288; Ave - 21.78


Wow, absolutely amazing!

 

[yasir_shah_fan]

Even if you consider Murali, Saqi was better he could bowl in the beginning, middle overs and death. Warne was excellent in big matches, so the names mentioned here make my top 3 ODI spinners with agreement on OP's number 1 choice.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Peak Saqlain (1995-2000) was the greatest ever.

Over a long career, its a toss up between Murali and Warne.

I hope one day we also have a stellar ODI spinner. We produce great test spinners but never great ODI spinners.

 

[Ab Fan]

Greatest ODI spinner should have a world cup win to his name.

 

[Hasan123]

Peak Saqlain (1995-2000) was the greatest ever.

Over a long career, its a toss up between Murali and Warne.

I hope one day we also have a stellar ODI spinner. We produce great test spinners but never great ODI spinners.

Ashwin is a good odi bowler, he'll improve I think.

 

[Hasan123]

Shane Warne, Saqlain, and Murali are the outstanding ones. Never saw Saqlain and Warnes peak so can't really judge.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Ashwin is a good odi bowler, he'll improve I think.

From 2015 WC, he has been averaging 25 odd in ODIs. Probably he will rectify his ODI records a bit.

But guys like Qadir (ODI), Saqlain (ODI), Ajmal (ODI - chucker but still), Murali, Warne, Tahir (ODI) seem to have the magic where they would strike so frequently and change the game in the middle overs.

I wish we had a ODI spinner like that.

 

[Hasan123]

From 2015 WC, he has been averaging 25 odd in ODIs. Probably he will rectify his ODI records a bit.

But guys like Qadir (ODI), Saqlain (ODI), Ajmal (ODI - chucker but still), Murali, Warne, Tahir (ODI) seem to have the magic where they would strike so frequently and change the game in the middle overs.

I wish we had a ODI spinner like that.

Lol we also want a spinner like that in odis. Australia with Zampa,South Africa with Tahir, and England with Rashid have spinners who can pick up wickets in the middle overs.

 

[Bilal7]

Saqlain Mushtaq, without question. He revolutionized the role of spinners in LOs cricket, despite being part of an attack where he could have easily been left as a sideshow.

This is not even looking at his numbers which are truly amazing. Warne and Murali were noy better than him in this format.

Ajmal could have surpassed Saqlain had he played more matches however.

 

[Cricfan123]

Despite the obvious controversy about Murali, i would still put Murali at number 1 because Murali played with almost no support in the bowling department (Malinga was good only for 2-3 years, Vaas was meh and Herath was a non-entity back then).

Saqlain was also awesome though. He will definitely take the 2nd spot.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I'm not including Murali in my list of choices for obvious reasons. In my opinion, Saqlain Mushtaq is the greatest ODI spin bowler of all time. Let's have a look at his numbers -


Matches - 169; Wickets - 288; Ave - 21.78


Wow, absolutely amazing!

Check his country wise breakdown in 90s.

You will be blown away.

 

[Bilal7]

Despite the obvious controversy about Murali, i would still put Murali at number 1 because Murali played with almost no support in the bowling department (Malinga was good only for 2-3 years, Vaas was meh and Herath was a non-entity back then).

Saqlain was also awesome though. He will definitely take the 2nd spot.

Valid point about Murali getting no support. The reason I would put him ahead of Warne.

 

[street cricketer]

Toss up between Murali and Saqi.

 

[DRsohail]

saqlain and murli.....

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

I have seen Saqi from 1997 on wards and believe me he was a beast in Limited Overs Cricket.

He was practically the only spinner who had the spine to actually ask to bowl during the death overs !!

Gun ODI competitor

 

[DRsohail]

From 2015 WC, he has been averaging 25 odd in ODIs. Probably he will rectify his ODI records a bit.

But guys like Qadir (ODI), Saqlain (ODI), Ajmal (ODI - chucker but still), Murali, Warne, Tahir (ODI) seem to have the magic where they would strike so frequently and change the game in the middle overs.

I wish we had a ODI spinner like that.

a bit offrnsive to calll him a chucker during the discussion..he was but icc was there he should have not allowed to bowl f they did then u have to call it legal and include him...

 

[Bilal7]

Wouldn't be wrong to say that the Pakistani attack of Wasim, Waqar and Saqlain was better than any fantasy attack made up of bowlers from all countries. Wasim was the best ODI pacer, Saqlain the best ODI spinner and Waqar is underrated because he bowled alongside these two, despite having way more five-fors than any normal human being should have.

 

[Hawkeye]

Either Murali or Saqi. Warne gets a mention too but he was more effective in Tests.

 

[Bilal7]

I have seen Saqi from 1997 on wards and believe me he was a beast in Limited Overs Cricket.

He was practically the only spinner who had the spine to actually ask to bowl during the death overs !!

Gun ODI competitor

Him and Ajmal. Ridiculously good whether that be during the opening, middle or end stages of an innings.

 

[street cricketer]

Warne wasn't as good in ODIs, his heroics in the 99 WC notwithstanding.

Murali and Saqlain were the standout bowlers.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

a bit offrnsive to calll him a chucker during the discussion..he was but icc was there he should have not allowed to bowl f they did then u have to call it legal and include him...

Intention was not to offend but include him with an *.

I loved the way he controlled the game in the middle. He was really really good in ODIs....during his latter days, he wasn't even that magical and still used to average 21-23 odd for the year.

But fact is that without his superpower, he would struggle to get into a decent team. He is absolutely harmless these days which goes to show how much he needed that extension to be good. Its been years since he has been banned and yet he is unable to make a comback which goes to show it wasn't a case of an action gone bad. His bowling was legal but only from a technical standpoint just like how SA lost a WC knockout match where they needed 23 runs off 1 (the other team won fair and square based on accepted rules but it was just a technical win).

So I am afraid I have to either include him with an asterisk or not include him at all.

 

[DRsohail]

Intention was not to offend but include him with an *.

I loved the way he controlled the game in the middle. He was really really good in ODIs....during his latter days, he wasn't even that magical and still used to average 21-23 odd for the year.

But fact is that without his superpower, he would struggle to get into a decent team. He is absolutely harmless these days which goes to show how much he needed that extension to be good. Its been years since he has been banned and yet he is unable to make a comback which goes to show it wasn't a case of an action gone bad. His bowling was legal but only from a technical standpoint just like how SA lost a WC knockout match where they needed 23 runs off 1 (the other team won fair and square based on accepted rules but it was just a technical win).

So I am afraid I have to either include him with an asterisk or not include him at all.

got it now......yes he was banned but for that murli also makes the list if it was in the present era......he did well whatever the case was,and u did apreciate it.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

got it now......yes he was banned but for that murli also makes the list if it was in the present era......he did well whatever the case was,and u did apreciate it.

If you check Murali's videos and slo mo it and see if he extends his elbows, you will find there was hardly any extension in his 90s videos. The ball he got called for in 1995 was perfectly legal. There was no extension at all and still the poor guy had to face humiliation. In fact, that delivery was more legal than what most (or all) spinners bowl today.

There are some doubts about Murali post 2000 but I don't think its as sure shot as many think. I haven't taken a very close look at his post 2000 videos. I think in a few I saw some good extension which could have got him into trouble (or near trouble mark).

His case will always remain a mystery.

 

[Hawkeye]

Intention was not to offend but include him with an *.

I loved the way he controlled the game in the middle. He was really really good in ODIs....during his latter days, he wasn't even that magical and still used to average 21-23 odd for the year.

But fact is that without his superpower, he would struggle to get into a decent team. He is absolutely harmless these days which goes to show how much he needed that extension to be good. Its been years since he has been banned and yet he is unable to make a comback which goes to show it wasn't a case of an action gone bad. His bowling was legal but only from a technical standpoint just like how SA lost a WC knockout match where they needed 23 runs off 1 (the other team won fair and square based on accepted rules but it was just a technical win).

So I am afraid I have to either include him with an asterisk or not include him at all.

Like [MENTION=139664]street cricketer[/MENTION] says, Ajmal was the GOAT of chuckers.

Like if you ignore his chucking*, he produced absolute magic, which even chuckers haven't been able to do. So yes, ATG with a *.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Like [MENTION=139664]street cricketer[/MENTION] says, Ajmal was the GOAT of chuckers.

Like if you ignore his chucking*, he produced absolute magic, which even chuckers haven't been able to do. So yes, ATG with a *.

ATG is a special tag which I am afraid can't be used when certain things have been proven in a clear cut way. If we really have to use ATG with a *, then it could be used for Murali. A true ATG but there remains some doubts about him in the minds of a few.

For Ajmal, I would say he was a super entertaining magical spinner with a *. That would be an accurate reflection of him imho.

 

[Nil Dhumrojal]

I'm not including Murali in my list of choices for obvious reasons. In my opinion, Saqlain Mushtaq is the greatest ODI spin bowler of all time. Let's have a look at his numbers -


Matches - 169; Wickets - 288; Ave - 21.78


Wow, absolutely amazing!

Did you mean offie or leggie????

 

[Justcrazy]

Its unfortunate Saqlain could not get to 300 OD wickets , another 4 - 5 games he would have reached that,

 

[LegendAli]

Swanny > all of them.

 

[ali ray]

Saeed ajmal, no one even come close, look at his average and strike rate in batting era

 

[The_Odd_One]

Saqlain is the greatest ODI spinner of all time. Troubled top batsmen and teams, had outstanding stats, could bowl in the death overs. He was the only spinner who had an aura of a fast bowler.

Not many might not know but Qadir was a phenomenol ODI bowler.

 

[Thivagar]

Murali and Saqlain were the two bowlers I loved watching growing up. Never liked leggies than cause I was too young to understand the meaning of not trying to hit the stumps.

 

[QalandarFan]

Lol we also want a spinner like that in odis. Australia with Zampa,South Africa with Tahir, and England with Rashid have spinners who can pick up wickets in the middle overs.

We have a few good potential limited over spinners in the domestic circuit but our selectors don't pick them.

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

Saqlain Mustaq hands down, no need a thread or discussion for that.

 

[QalandarFan]

From 2015 WC, he has been averaging 25 odd in ODIs. Probably he will rectify his ODI records a bit.

But guys like Qadir (ODI), Saqlain (ODI), Ajmal (ODI - chucker but still), Murali, Warne, Tahir (ODI) seem to have the magic where they would strike so frequently and change the game in the middle overs.

I wish we had a ODI spinner like that.

These are his stats since then
Matches - 14
Wickets - 22
Ave - 27
Eco - 4.51

But if you look at it his stats are mostly inflated by the 4/25 against UAE. But still he's been performing semi-decently and can also bat.

 

[QalandarFan]

Saqlain Mushtaq is the greatest ODI spinner for me!

 

[Slog]

Despite the obvious controversy about Murali, i would still put Murali at number 1 because Murali played with almost no support in the bowling department (Malinga was good only for 2-3 years, Vaas was meh and Herath was a non-entity back then).

Saqlain was also awesome though. He will definitely take the 2nd spot.

Vaas was meh?

He'd probably be gunning for being India's greatest fast bowler. Easily would make top 3

 

[EliteCynical]

Toss up between Murali and Saqi.

First of all, I think everyone is underrating AFRIDI here. He has been a wonderful spinner for pakistan (whether one likes it or not).

Further, I would like to put a different 'spin' to this. According to me, the greatest spinner would have to be the one who has influenced more wins for his side. If we go by that regard, the stats tell a different story. Yes Murali is there (with the caveat), but check out who is at number 2 with NINE (yes 9) five wicket hauls for his country in wins.

 

[EliteCynical]

I would rate Afridi above Saqlain tbh. Yes, Saqlain's average and strike rate are far more impressive, i am going for impact in won games here.

 

[The_Odd_One]

First of all, I think everyone is underrating AFRIDI here. He has been a wonderful spinner for pakistan (whether one likes it or not).

Further, I would like to put a different 'spin' to this. According to me, the greatest spinner would have to be the one who has influenced more wins for his side. If we go by that regard, the stats tell a different story. Yes Murali is there (with the caveat), but check out who is at number 2 with NINE (yes 9) five wicket hauls for his country in wins.

View attachment 70818

Saqlain despite playing less than half the matches has almost equal 4+ wickets. His average of just under 16 is GOAT stuff.

 

[Hasan123]

We have a few good potential limited over spinners in the domestic circuit but our selectors don't pick them.

Agreed. Don't think we can relay on imad as our sole spinner. He's more of a support bowler.

 

[EliteCynical]

Saqlain despite playing less than half the matches has almost equal 4+ wickets. His average of just under 16 is GOAT stuff.

Yes, that tells me he was very good in the games he won for PAkistan and may be not great in the other 76 games he played. My question is that for a guy to get 188 wickets in 'won' matches - does his warrant him to be GOAT spinner? If that is the case Waqar or George Lohmann should have also have been considered as GOAT.

 

[Abdullah719]

Yes, that tells me he was very good in the games he won for PAkistan and may be not great in the other 76 games he played. My question is that for a guy to get 188 wickets in 'won' matches - does his warrant him to be GOAT spinner? If that is the case Waqar or George Lohmann should have also have been considered as GOAT.

Saqlain in wins: 93 matches, 188 wickets @ 15.8, 4 five-wicket hauls (1 per 23.25 matches)
Afridi in wins: 218 matches, 277 wickets @ 25.6, 9 five-wicket hauls (1 per 24.22 matches)

Saqlain in losses: 73 matches, 100 wickets @ 33
Afridi in losses: 170 matches, 115 wickets @ 56.4

This isn't a serious contest.

Afridi wins only on longevity. And reputation perhaps.

 

[Buffet]

Answer of OP is Murali. Simply too good in ODI for a very very long time.

Having said that I pick Saqlain at times when choosing an ATG XI in ODI.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Saqlain in wins: 93 matches, 188 wickets @ 15.8, 4 five-wicket hauls (1 per 23.25 matches)
Afridi in wins: 218 matches, 277 wickets @ 25.6, 9 five-wicket hauls (1 per 24.22 matches)

Saqlain in losses: 73 matches, 100 wickets @ 33
Afridi in losses: 170 matches, 115 wickets @ 56.4

This isn't a serious contest.

Afridi wins only on longevity. And reputation perhaps.

Thank you.

Saqlain was way way way better than Afridi.

 

[Justcrazy]

Saqlain wins this , there is no doubt about it .

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Thank you.

Saqlain was way way way better than Afridi.

Any thread with the title of 'greatest etc etc'... should never have Afridi in it as a discussion point !! The fact that someone name dropped him here gives the consensus of our fans who somewhat still think that Lala is practically the next best thing since sliced bread.

Apart from the Greatest Entertainer Afridi's masquerading con of pretending to be a cricketer should be how everyone should associate him. Ruined a generation that man

 

[Dr_Bassim]

However, one question does arise.

If one chooses an ODI ATG team of bowlers

Who would you pick?

Would you leave out Warne for Saqlain ? I personally wouldn't because Warne had ability to step up in big match tournaments.

I am in a bit of dilemma.

Would you leave out McGrath ? I couldn't possibly.

So who to pick and leave.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

However, one question does arise.

If one chooses an ODI ATG team of bowlers

Who would you pick?

Would you leave out Warne for Saqlain ? I personally wouldn't because Warne had ability to step up in big match tournaments.

I am in a bit of dilemma.

Would you leave out McGrath ? I couldn't possibly.

So who to pick and leave.

Wasim and Saqlain both make it into any greatest ODI XI one might put up... and quite frankly these two are the only Pakistanis that make the cut based on metrics and on field impact / aura / stature.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

These are his stats since then
Matches - 14
Wickets - 22
Ave - 27
Eco - 4.51

But if you look at it his stats are mostly inflated by the 4/25 against UAE. But still he's been performing semi-decently and can also bat.

This is what happens when you look at cricinfo stats only. Cricket is more than that. Since I watched all Indian games, let me give you a series by series breakdown:

WC 2015 - He averaged 25.38 (take a look at his wickets and impact in the main games - SA, Pak and Aus....there were many instances where Ashwin came and changed the flow of the game)

Bangladesh tour 2015 - Averaged 19.66 (out of Bang, India, SA and Pak that toured there, his number are third only to Mustafizur and Rabada...Tahir averaged 57 in that Bangladesh tour....in fact, Bangladesh batsmen stopped attacking him and started playing him off in the series later on....it got to that level)

SA in India - Average 14 (bowled just 4 overs before getting injured)

India in Aus - Average 64 (2 games in WACA and some other ground....first game got 2 wickets...next game went wicketless...so was dropped with Jaddu playing as the economical spinner who could hit also....there was a bit of controversy around that too as to why he was dropped for the Melbourne track games where even Gurukeerat was spinning it)

 

[The_Odd_One]

However, one question does arise.

If one chooses an ODI ATG team of bowlers

Who would you pick?

Would you leave out Warne for Saqlain ? I personally wouldn't because Warne had ability to step up in big match tournaments.

I am in a bit of dilemma.

Would you leave out McGrath ? I couldn't possibly.

So who to pick and leave.

Warne will the first bowler at least in my team just because he was super clutch.

 

[Hitman]

With his talent and ability, Saqlain definitely underachieved in Tests. Not that his record is poor (it's good), but he should have achieved much, much more with his talent in Tests.

Is the PCB to be blamed partially for it?

 

[Hitman]

Greatest ODI spinner should have a world cup win to his name.

Rubbish! A World Cup is won by the contribution of 11 members of a side, and that too throughout the entire tournament. Cricket is a team game.

By your logic no SA bowler or batsman can claim to be a great in the ODI format.

 

[Hitman]

Check his country wise breakdown in 90s.

You will be blown away.

Yea, I've checked them. It's simply mind blowing to say the least.

 

[Hitman]

Wouldn't be wrong to say that the Pakistani attack of Wasim, Waqar and Saqlain was better than any fantasy attack made up of bowlers from all countries. Wasim was the best ODI pacer, Saqlain the best ODI spinner and Waqar is underrated because he bowled alongside these two, despite having way more five-fors than any normal human being should have.

A lot of fans actually underrate Waqar because of the QF match against India in the 1996 World Cup. I don't think it's fair because that was a one off match. Yes, he failed miserably in that match but then again every great/good player end up having bad days.

 

[Hitman]

Did you mean offie or leggie????

What I meant is any spinner. Just like a fast bowler in my book means any fast bowler, whether he be express fast like Thomson or a metronome like Richard Hadlee.

 

[Cricfan123]

Vaas was meh?

He'd probably be gunning for being India's greatest fast bowler. Easily would make top 3

Kapil, Srinath and Zaheer are much better than Vaas. Shami will be better than him quite easily.

So yeah, Vaas was indeed 'meh'.

 

[Hitman]

Kapil, Srinath and Zaheer are much better than Vaas. Shami will be better than him quite easily.

So yeah, Vaas was indeed 'meh'.

Zaheer with an average of 33 and Srinath with an average of 31 was much better than Vaas?

 

[Cricfan123]

Zaheer with an average of 33 and Srinath with an average of 31 was much better than Vaas?

You really think that Vaas was better than Zaheer and Srinath?

 

[Vayuu]

Wouldn't be wrong to say that the Pakistani attack of Wasim, Waqar and Saqlain was better than any fantasy attack made up of bowlers from all countries. Wasim was the best ODI pacer, Saqlain the best ODI spinner and Waqar is underrated because he bowled alongside these two, despite having way more five-fors than any normal human being should have.

They were good, but I would put mcgrath, gillispie and Warne ahead, waqar wasn't the same bowler post injury, although Saqlain was a gun bowler, but so was warne, wasim though had more tricks but mcgrath had consistency, and mind you Australia still had very good pacers in Damien Fleming, Andy bichel and kasprovickz, although gillispie was very sharp too, this attack raised its bar on big occasion and ran through line up, such was their accuracy,although wasim waqar and saqi were more talented, but the consistency takes the cake.

 

[Vayuu]

With his talent and ability, Saqlain definitely underachieved in Tests. Not that his record is poor (it's good), but he should have achieved much, much more with his talent in Tests.

Is the PCB to be blamed partially for it?

That's coz he over did his doosra, ,where as he should have used his pehla more and mixed it with very few doosra's, same thing happened with ajmal, I would put a mythological touch into this, karna was more talanted than arjun had more skills, but what separated arjuna from rest was his hunger to evolve and looking for consistency, he never stopped practicing, he never left his strength, instead he worked on his weaknesses, he looked to hone his skills,most important thing is work ethics.

 

[Bilal7]

That's coz he over did his doosra, ,where as he should have used his pehla more and mixed it with very few doosra's, same thing happened with ajmal, I would put a mythological touch into this, karna was more talanted than arjun had more skills, but what separated arjuna from rest was his hunger to evolve and looking for consistency, he never stopped practicing, he never left his strength, instead he worked on his weaknesses, he looked to hone his skills,most important thing is work ethics.

You said this in another thread as well but this isn't why Saqlain retired before he should have. Saqlain was injured and had his knees ruined by some idiot who was healing him through his massages.

Ajmal was simply too old and was declining like all bowlers do. They didn't overdo their doosra.

 

[Hitman]

You really think that Vaas was better than Zaheer and Srinath?

His tally of wickets and average suggests so.

 

[EliteCynical]

Saqlain in wins: 93 matches, 188 wickets @ 15.8, 4 five-wicket hauls (1 per 23.25 matches)
Afridi in wins: 218 matches, 277 wickets @ 25.6, 9 five-wicket hauls (1 per 24.22 matches)

Saqlain in losses: 73 matches, 100 wickets @ 33
Afridi in losses: 170 matches, 115 wickets @ 56.4

This isn't a serious contest.

Afridi wins only on longevity. And reputation perhaps.

Yes I see your point. Afridi is poor compared to Saqlain in losses, however it is not so straightforward. Afridi bowled in far more batsman friendly conditions than Saqi (powerplay, 2 new balls etc etc.) and still to actually have those stats in wins is commendable.

Overall i agree Saqi is greater than Afridi. My point was Afridi why was not at all being considered even though he had par stats with Saqi in wins.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Greatest ODI spinner should have a world cup win to his name.

Had Sachin retired without winning a world cup, he would have been still regarded an ATG or even a GOAT. Similarly, Kohli is already an ATG in ODIs irrespective of whether he wins or does not win a world cup.

 

[Abdullah719]

Yes I see your point. Afridi is poor compared to Saqlain in losses, however it is not so straightforward. Afridi bowled in far more batsman friendly conditions than Saqi (powerplay, 2 new balls etc etc.) and still to actually have those stats in wins is commendable.

Overall i agree Saqi is greater than Afridi. My point was Afridi why was not at all being considered even though he had par stats with Saqi in wins.

I didn't really have the chance to watch Saqlain playing but he had a reputation of bowling a lot of tough overs including those at the death.

I watched a long part of Afridi's career and rarely did he bowl in powerplays or at the death. He almost always bowled his overs in the middle of the innings.

This isn't really a big deal - not many spinners bowl at the death anyway. However, there are many spinners with similar records to Afridi which is why he won't come into this discussion. Admittedly, he was often unplayable when he was 'in the zone', but like his batting, that was a rare occurrence.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Greatest ODI spinner should have a world cup win to his name.

Murali is the answer then.

 

[EliteCynical]

I didn't really have the chance to watch Saqlain playing but he had a reputation of bowling a lot of tough overs including those at the death.

I watched a long part of Afridi's career and rarely did he bowl in powerplays or at the death. He almost always bowled his overs in the middle of the innings.

This isn't really a big deal - not many spinners bowl at the death anyway. However, there are many spinners with similar records to Afridi which is why he won't come into this discussion. Admittedly, he was often unplayable when he was 'in the zone', but like his batting, that was a rare occurrence.

I remember watching almost all (if not all) the games of Saqi .
1. Wasim used him as a surprise element in 96 WC v SA, when they introduced Paul Adams. Saqi was too aggresive back then. I remember him having a nice c&b and a decent game (don't think it was debut)

2. I saw the earliest signs of an away going delivery when he had Sachin stumped in Singapore for a 100.

3. Moin Khan used to called it ulta. The doosra phenomenon started only when he got a fifer in Brisbane vs Aus in the tri series. Neither Aus nor WI could pick his balls.

4. He also got another fifer in the Sahara cup, which made Wasim say that he is the best spinner in the world and tipped him for 500 wickets.

Now the thing is I think Saqi got a lot of cheap wickets (taking nothing away from him) due to his doosra. Batsmen used to go for the slog and were out stumped or caught. Those were the days when teams used to go at 4 an over till 42 and then accelerate. Saqi usually bowled his last 4 from 42 to 50.

Very rarely have i seen him under pressure, but i did see him wilt under pressure once when Rajesh chauhan hit him for a 6 in Karachi. Saeed Anwar, the captain cried foul saying ball was changed and Saqi was not able to grip the newer ball thus enabling Chauhan to him him for a 6, which makes me wonder whether or not he would have succeeded in today's world of big bats, small grounds and bang bang.

I think Afridi's 'in the zone' bowling occurrences were far more than his batting. He has been unplayable at times (2011 WC comes to mind).

My only problem with slating Saqi as ATG spinner is the sample size. I don't think he played long enough and was tested enough. He had the first movers advantage with the doosra and rightly so, which fetched him heaps of wickets.

 

[Rayyman]

Shane Warne. Hopefully Ashwin will surpass him.

 

[Hitman]

Had Sachin retired without winning a world cup, he would have been still regarded an ATG or even a GOAT. Similarly, Kohli is already an ATG in ODIs irrespective of whether he wins or does not win a world cup.

He already has.

 

[The_Odd_One]

He already has.

Not with his batting

 

[The_Odd_One]

I remember watching almost all (if not all) the games of Saqi .
1. Wasim used him as a surprise element in 96 WC v SA, when they introduced Paul Adams. Saqi was too aggresive back then. I remember him having a nice c&b and a decent game (don't think it was debut)

2. I saw the earliest signs of an away going delivery when he had Sachin stumped in Singapore for a 100.

3. Moin Khan used to called it ulta. The doosra phenomenon started only when he got a fifer in Brisbane vs Aus in the tri series. Neither Aus nor WI could pick his balls.

4. He also got another fifer in the Sahara cup, which made Wasim say that he is the best spinner in the world and tipped him for 500 wickets.

Now the thing is I think Saqi got a lot of cheap wickets (taking nothing away from him) due to his doosra. Batsmen used to go for the slog and were out stumped or caught. Those were the days when teams used to go at 4 an over till 42 and then accelerate. Saqi usually bowled his last 4 from 42 to 50.

Very rarely have i seen him under pressure, but i did see him wilt under pressure once when Rajesh chauhan hit him for a 6 in Karachi. Saeed Anwar, the captain cried foul saying ball was changed and Saqi was not able to grip the newer ball thus enabling Chauhan to him him for a 6, which makes me wonder whether or not he would have succeeded in today's world of big bats, small grounds and bang bang.

I think Afridi's 'in the zone' bowling occurrences were far more than his batting. He has been unplayable at times (2011 WC comes to mind).

My only problem with slating Saqi as ATG spinner is the sample size. I don't think he played long enough and was tested enough. He had the first movers advantage with the doosra and rightly so, which fetched him heaps of wickets.

288 wickets is a huge sample size. Afridi was unplayable in like one tournament in his entire career?

 

[Slog]

You really think that Vaas was better than Zaheer and Srinath?

He was.

There's not much to think

Proof is in performances

 

[Slog]

His tally of wickets and average suggests so.

Ofcourse you can make arguments and case to say that Zaheer was better in some aspects.

But the issue is that this particular poster thinks Vaas is not even same level which is really hilarious honesty

 

[The_Odd_One]

Vaas was the lone warrior for SL fast bowling for so many years. Can anybody even name another test fast bowler from SL who even had half the career of Vaas?

I rate Vaas higher than Zaheer Khan.

 

[pak14]

Despite the obvious controversy about Murali, i would still put Murali at number 1 because Murali played with almost no support in the bowling department (Malinga was good only for 2-3 years, Vaas was meh and Herath was a non-entity back then).

Saqlain was also awesome though. He will definitely take the 2nd spot.

What is the controversy about Murali?

 

[Ab Fan]

Rubbish! A World Cup is won by the contribution of 11 members of a side, and that too throughout the entire tournament. Cricket is a team game.

By your logic no SA bowler or batsman can claim to be a great in the ODI format.

I have seen posters claiming that here on PP when I was on the opposite side of what I said.

 

[kamz]

Despite the obvious controversy about Murali, i would still put Murali at number 1 because Murali played with almost no support in the bowling department (Malinga was good only for 2-3 years, Vaas was meh and Herath was a non-entity back then).

Saqlain was also awesome though. He will definitely take the 2nd spot.

and the point exactly is crucial I think. Murali was the only wicket taker in that bowling line up. Whereas Saqlain, had Wasim, waqar, Shoaib Akhtar, not to forget Razzaq who was a decent LOI bowler at that time and with those in side, he would trump them all and take wickets

 

[KashifButt]

I think at the time of Saqlain's career, the purpose of a spinner was to come on during the middle overs and pick up wickets whereas now, although that is still important, the economy rate is also now important (and arguably more important) and most spinners look to keep their economy as low as possible rather than their wickets as high as possible. This is understandable as the game has slowly developed more in the favour of the batsman therefore it would be unfair to compare two generations where the game has changed immensely.

 

[SLcric123]

Murali..

 

[SL_Fan]

Close one between Murali and Saqi. Pretty much 50/50 for me.