Who should be India's Number 4 in ODIs?

[BunnyRabbit]

A question for Indian fellows. Do you believe or are satisfied with Rayudu being the no. 4 for forseeable future for example till world cup?

I recently came across an article where Kohli was backing Rayudu to make the spot his own. The general consensus from outside appears to be that Rayudu wont be THE guy to be no.4.

I have read a lot of people supporting Rahul to become the guy. In addition, Sourav Ganguly, a hugely admired figure also called for Rahul to be given an extended run at 4.

Whats the general view in India regarding their no.4? Who do you people view to be the guy who will be one of the pieces of the puzzle of Indian middle order in near future?
Rahul, Rayudu, Pant, Gill, Raina, Dhoni, Karthik or someone else?

 

[ARK Rafay]

The thing is India looking to just fill the gap till WC19. Then they are definitely looking at Rayudu. But do they believe a youngster can put up the same performances if not above then Rayudu's? Because after WC19 India will have a few gaps to fill in the batting.

 

[battler]

Best squad India can put up for cwc 19 assuming Dhoni is somehow dropped.
Dhawan
Rohit
Kohli
Rahul
Jadhav
Pant
Hardik Pandya
Krunal Pandya
Kuldeep
Shami
Bumrah
We have 3 AR's in the Pandya brothers and Jadhav and an explosive top 6. 3 spinners are covered in Kuldeep, krunal and Jadhav and three Pacers in Bumrah, Shami and Hardik.
This is the best balance India can have.

 

[Rahul1]

Best squad India can put up for cwc 19 assuming Dhoni is somehow dropped.
Dhawan
Rohit
Kohli
Rahul
Jadhav
Pant
Hardik Pandya
Krunal Pandya
Kuldeep
Shami
Bumrah
We have 3 AR's in the Pandya brothers and Jadhav and an explosive top 6. 3 spinners are covered in Kuldeep, krunal and Jadhav and three Pacers in Bumrah, Shami and Hardik.
This is the best balance India can have.

But you know that grandpa will never be dropped.

 

[Ab Fan]

I think Rahul should be given a consistent run at no. 4. Highly talented player and would eventually get things right at any batting position.

You just can't wait for one of Rohit and Dhawan to retire before placing in Rahul because those two will continue till 2023 WC themselves only.

Rahul at 4 and Pant at 6 is a way to go. Pant role would be similar to Raina, ie., to score some quickfire runs at the end and finish off games. Dhoni wont go and this is something everyone has to accept.

So, my XI for WC 2019 should be: -

Rohit
Dhawan
Kohli
Rahul
Jadhav/Dhoni(wkt)
Pant
Pandya
Jadeja
Kuldeep
Shami
Bumrah

If I play Jadhav in place of Dhoni, then I will have six bowling options and that is what should be the way to go. Unfortunately, Dhoni will stay and it will be between one of Jadhav and Pant for the ultimate XI.

 

[austerlitz]

4,5,6 should be
4 - Iyer/Gill/Rahul
5 - Pant
6 - Iyer/Gill/Jadhav

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Kohli at 4. They should try a combo of Dhawan/Rohit/Rahul as top 3.

 

[the_outsider]

The thing is India looking to just fill the gap till WC19. Then they are definitely looking at Rayudu. But do they believe a youngster can put up the same performances if not above then Rayudu's? Because after WC19 India will have a few gaps to fill in the batting.

Precisely. And Rayadu seems like a good stop-gap option.

Unlike the other options of KL, Iyer, Shaw and Gill, Rayadu has the advantage of

1. being a middle order batsman all his life
2. unlike the other guys he won't need time to readjust to the demands of batting in the middle order

Rayadu has done quite well since his comeback as well. There's no need to mess around with with right now with only 18 ODIs to go, he should get as many chances as possible.

Problem is the absence of Hardik and Kedar - our 2 all-arounders.

Those two guys got a lot of abuse when they were playing but now that they are out with injury look at how the team's balance has gone completely out of the window.

I have been saying this for a long time. In today's age in white ball cricket, you have to have a minimum of 2 ARs in the team. You need to have batting till 8 and 6/7 bowling options. That is the biggest weakness of this Indian team. Not no 4. Not Dhoni. Not anybody else. India will still win most matches because their pure batsmen/bowlers are quality cricketers. But every now and then, when there comes a match when the team is 6 down before the 42nd over, a team like India will fail to get over the line while a team like England will come out on top 7/10 times.

 

[Srtfan]

Rahul ,iyer or gill
Rohit
Dhwan
Kohli
Rahul/ iyer/ gill
Pant
Jadhav
Pandya

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Precisely. And Rayadu seems like a good stop-gap option.

Unlike the other options of KL, Iyer, Shaw and Gill, Rayadu has the advantage of

1. being a middle order batsman all his life
2. unlike the other guys he won't need time to readjust to the demands of batting in the middle order

Rayadu has done quite well since his comeback as well. There's no need to mess around with with right now with only 18 ODIs to go, he should get as many chances as possible.

Problem is the absence of Hardik and Kedar - our 2 all-arounders.

Those two guys got a lot of abuse when they were playing but now that they are out with injury look at how the team's balance has gone completely out of the window.

I have been saying this for a long time. In today's age in white ball cricket, you have to have a minimum of 2 ARs in the team. You need to have batting till 8 and 6/7 bowling options. That is the biggest weakness of this Indian team. Not no 4. Not Dhoni. Not anybody else. India will still win most matches because their pure batsmen/bowlers are quality cricketers. But every now and then, when there comes a match when the team is 6 down before the 42nd over, a team like India will fail to get over the line while a team like England will come out on top 7/10 times.

So you guys feel Rayudu is the best man for the job till WC19?

 

[Hasan123]

KL Rahul or Pant.

 

[Itachi]

So you guys feel Rayudu is the best man for the job till WC19?

He has biased for Rayudu.

Rayudu will be one of the reasons India will be knocked out at or before semis. I don't have high hopes for 2019.

2023 will be ours.

 

[rhony]

Kohli at 4. They should try a combo of Dhawan/Rohit/Rahul as top 3.

This. They already did this in Eng T20s

 

[Rahul1]

Kohli at 4. They should try a combo of Dhawan/Rohit/Rahul as top 3.

There is no need to change Kohli's batting position. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[the_outsider]

So you guys feel Rayudu is the best man for the job till WC19?

See, personally I would have loved it if KL or Manish Pandey would have cemented their place at no 4. But the sad reality is that those two didn't deliver. Manish still did okay but KL completely failed in the middle order.

So far, Rayadu has looked pretty solid at 4. He seems comfortable with rotating the strike and has looked very good against spin - 2 things that are very critical for a no 4.

So my point is, while Rayadu may not be the absolute best no 4 this team could have had, he is still better than all of the others we have tried and I think he is good enough at 4 for now.

There has been too much focus on no 4 and not enough focus on number 6 & 7, which is where I think India needs most help. So I say, let Rayadu be. He is the best no 4 we can have ready and prepared for the WC. And he has been scoring runs as well.

Focus now should go on no 6 & 7. And I fear that we have to go left-field to solve this issue and bring Hardik in at 6 and another AR at 7 - someone like a Washington Sundar or Krunal Pandya. My fear is that these guys are not ready for international cricket.

India's main problem, today, as of 28th Oct 2018 is not the no 4 batsman. The problem is the extended tailend which is seriously messing with not just the team balance but also the mindset of the middle-order batsmen because they have no safety net whatsoever.

In today's day of ODI cricket, a team simply cannot have a batting line-up which ends at no 7.

 

[the_outsider]

He has biased for Rayudu.

Rayudu will be one of the reasons India will be knocked out at or before semis. I don't have high hopes for 2019.

2023 will be ours.

Not really. If I have a bias towards anyone it's Manish Pandey. I just think Rayadu has looked the most solid on the field of all the no 4 batters we have tried.

 

[Mamoon]

Rahul would have been the ideal choice but it didn’t work out. Kohli is right in identifying Rayudu as a stop-gap number four.

He is not an exciting option but he ticks more boxes than the alternatives.

 

[Bilal7]

Ideally someone like Babar Azam. A young player with lots of potential to grow but already adept at handling the moving ball and a tendency to score buckets of runs when in form. An average of 50 and SR over 85 doesn't hurt either.

However, there is no one like Babar in India so their next best option is MS Dhoni.

 

[Bilal7]

He has biased for Rayudu.

Rayudu will be one of the reasons India will be knocked out at or before semis. I don't have high hopes for 2019.

2023 will be ours.

If you fail in 2019, be prepared for an even bigger failure in 2023 when Kohli is no longer there to bail you out.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

See, personally I would have loved it if KL or Manish Pandey would have cemented their place at no 4. But the sad reality is that those two didn't deliver. Manish still did okay but KL completely failed in the middle order.

So far, Rayadu has looked pretty solid at 4. He seems comfortable with rotating the strike and has looked very good against spin - 2 things that are very critical for a no 4.

So my point is, while Rayadu may not be the absolute best no 4 this team could have had, he is still better than all of the others we have tried and I think he is good enough at 4 for now.

There has been too much focus on no 4 and not enough focus on number 6 & 7, which is where I think India needs most help. So I say, let Rayadu be. He is the best no 4 we can have ready and prepared for the WC. And he has been scoring runs as well.

Focus now should go on no 6 & 7. And I fear that we have to go left-field to solve this issue and bring Hardik in at 6 and another AR at 7 - someone like a Washington Sundar or Krunal Pandya. My fear is that these guys are not ready for international cricket.

India's main problem, today, as of 28th Oct 2018 is not the no 4 batsman. The problem is the extended tailend which is seriously messing with not just the team balance but also the mindset of the middle-order batsmen because they have no safety net whatsoever.

In today's day of ODI cricket, a team simply cannot have a batting line-up which ends at no 7.

Agree with you, I think Indian management are pretty keen on having Jadhav at no.6 and Hardik at no.7 for the WC. I actually feel as an outsider that Pandya isn't atm at that level yet where he can be given responsibility of battting at no.7. Considering that he will be the team's 3rd seamer along with Bhuvneshwar and Bumrah seems to be sort of a joy for the opposition as he can be played with relative ease than a specialist seamer would. So he will definitely become the bowler the opposition would be targeting, but then none of Bumrah, Kuldeep or Chahal could be dropped as they have been performing consistently in their primary discipline. So in my opinion, if India can find someone at no.4 who can provide 5-6 overs, then you can maybe have Pandya coming as down as no.8 and Bhuvneshwar at no.9 which would lengthen the tail, but it might still weaken the bowling as none of Bumrah, Kuldeep, Chahal or Bhuvneshwar should be dropped.

 

[Itachi]

If you fail in 2019, be prepared for an even bigger failure in 2023 when Kohli is no longer there to bail you out.

We probably won't need Kohli by 2023.

 

[Hari Sombar]

Should stick ith Rayudu unil he WC, although he is not the best he has improved and bats at a higher SR then he was capable of before. After WC, Rahul should be given a proper run and failing that, I think Gill should be given a chance.

The problem with Rahul is his talent is so huge it would be a waste to not give him a proper go in the team, and we cannot wait for Dhawan/Rohit to vacate the opening slots as this will take years.

An alternative option is to have Rahul and Dhawan open and Rohit at 4, only issue with this is he needs too much time to settle.

This is a big problem here.

 

[the_outsider]

Ideally someone like Babar Azam. A young player with lots of potential to grow but already adept at handling the moving ball and a tendency to score buckets of runs when in form. An average of 50 and SR over 85 doesn't hurt either.

However, there is no one like Babar in India so their next best option is MS Dhoni.

That's true. If we had Babar we definitely wouldn't have lost to WI.

We would lose to SA, ENG, AUS, NZ and everyone else. But we wouldn't lose against WI.

 

[RainMan_]

Someone like Mushfiqur. But obviously it's not that easy to find out a player of his caliber.

 

[Canford Cliffs]

Someone like Mushfiqur. But obviously it's not that easy to find out a player of his caliber.

Dont think Mushfiq is better than Shaw, Rahul, Gill, Agarwal, Iyer etc. Maybe he is on par with Rayudu. But since we are looking for a young batsman, Mushfiq is surely not the answer.

 

[rahulrulezz]

Best squad India can put up for cwc 19 assuming Dhoni is somehow dropped.
Dhawan
Rohit
Kohli
Rahul
Jadhav
Pant
Hardik Pandya
Krunal Pandya
Kuldeep
Shami
Bumrah
We have 3 AR's in the Pandya brothers and Jadhav and an explosive top 6. 3 spinners are covered in Kuldeep, krunal and Jadhav and three Pacers in Bumrah, Shami and Hardik.
This is the best balance India can have.

You Sir are a legend.

Other than Bhuvi for Shami (I have bias for Bhuvi), the squad you posted is the best Indian 11, and IMO will win the World Cup.

Can someone give this squad to the selectors and Kohli please.

Please circulate this squad on social media, BCCI, Kohli’s, Shastri Twitter, Instagram Facebook pages.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

There is no need to change Kohli's batting position. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Kohli is equally good at 4 like he showed in the early part of his career. We need a solid middle order batsman and he's the only one whereas i think rahul's aggression would be welcome top of the order. However, the real issues are rayudu and mahi bhai who are weakening our lineup.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

This. They already did this in Eng T20s

Yeah and then reverted to kohli at 3. I guess Kohli is not willing to bat down the order and to be fair to him he's obviously earned the right to bat wherever he wants. Just that it would make our batting solid if he bats at 3. Would give 1,2,3 the luxury to go hard from ball 1 and play ODI's the way its supposed to be played these days on flat pitches.