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[VIDEOS] Why anti Muslim bias is so profound among Hindutva supporters?

RexRex said:
I've told you already .. Mosaic law & rituals don't apply to christians, that's what christians have believed for 2000 years. I'm sure you know better, mr know-it-all.
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Thats a convenient claim on your part ignoring the teachings of the guy your religion is named after

The gospels also endorse slavery.

Answer the rest of my questions.

Here is another couple more.

Is the god of moses different from the god of jesus? is he different from the god of islam?

did he change his mind on what is moral?
 
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rpant_gabba said:
You just wanted run away from old testament and its barbarism even though Jesus endorsed it and the gospels endorsed it.

Let me ask again.

did the mosaic law come from the "law giver" as you put it?

is it moral to own slaves?

are u going to ignore Jesus preachings about mosaic law?
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Btw regarding the ownsership of salves, christians will tell you that the slavery of those times was indentured servitude rather than the white on black slavery in 18th century USA .. which is basically people selling themselves into servitude in return for food/shelter. Not sure how accurate that is but I've read a couple of books on old testament ethics. Still have them with me infact.
 
RexRex said:
Which religious clown imposed their little book on you ? A bad personal experience you might have had I guess.
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I'd say world has had bad experiences from religious imposition. Aren't you whining about modi and his religious slant?
 
RexRex said:
Btw regarding the ownsership of salves, christians will tell you that the slavery of those times was indentured servitude rather than the white on black slavery in 18th century USA .. which is basically people selling themselves into servitude in return for food/shelter. Not sure how accurate that is but I've read a couple of books on old testament ethics. Still have them with me infact.
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sure. special pleadings.

Let me help you out.

exodus 21. look it up
 
rpant_gabba said:
sure. special pleadings.

Let me help you out.

exodus 21. look it up
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The acient world being a lot more barbaric in those days than the current 21st century, is not exactly an argument against the existence of God.
 
RexRex said:
The acient world being a lot more barbaric in those days than the current 21st century, is not exactly an argument against the existence of God.
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weren't those laws laid down the law giver? does god's morality change with time?

or you claiming moses of bs'ing about hearing from god?

you wanted logical questions. seems like you are too weak stomached to handle tough logical questions. let me list them again.

Is the god of moses different from the god of jesus? is he different from the god of islam?

was moses a prophet of god?

was jesus a prophet of god?

was mohammad a prophet of god?

if all three are prophet of same god, why the change on message over a course of 1500 years? weren't god's teaching supposed to be timeless?

if they are not prophets of the same god, whose god is better?

want me to keep going?
 
The Muslims in Bharat should be stripped of voting status. They are a few patriotic Muslims but they’re as rare as finding a world class fast bowler in Pakistan. Let’s not kid ourselves that a general Muslim thinks and feels about Bharat the same way as Irfan Pathan.

The regular Muslim does not respect Hinduism, believes he has more in common with some terrorist living in Syria than with his neighbour Hindu professor, dreams of Islamic caliphate.

We have been very patient historically and for centuries we tolerated their anti national behaviour.

Now they have to behave.
 
Bhaijaan said:
The Muslims in Bharat should be stripped of voting status. They are a few patriotic Muslims but they’re as rare as finding a world class fast bowler in Pakistan. Let’s not kid ourselves that a general Muslim thinks and feels about Bharat the same way as Irfan Pathan.

The regular Muslim does not respect Hinduism, believes he has more in common with some terrorist living in Syria than with his neighbour Hindu professor, dreams of Islamic caliphate.

We have been very patient historically and for centuries we tolerated their anti national behaviour.

Now they have to behave.
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That is undemocratic and fascist idea. I think we should revisit the communal award given by Ramsay MacDonald, which Morondas rejected. Where muslims will elect muslims and hindus will elect hindus. Muslim leaders will think of welfare of muslims and hindu leaders for hindus. Since hindus will not get votes from muslims and vice versa, there won't be appeasement politics, and there will be no shame in speaking for your community.

Lets us bring back the beauty of communal electorate.
 
www.goodreads.com

A quote by Christopher Hitchens

Let's say that the consensus is that our species, being the higher primates, Homo Sapiens, has been on the planet for at least 100,000 years, maybe more....
www.goodreads.com

​

“Let's say that the consensus is that our species, being the higher primates, Homo Sapiens, has been on the planet for at least 100,000 years, maybe more. Francis Collins says maybe 100,000. Richard Dawkins thinks maybe a quarter-of-a-million. I'll take 100,000. In order to be a Christian, you have to believe that for 98,000 years, our species suffered and died, most of its children dying in childbirth, most other people having a life expectancy of about 25 years, dying of their teeth. Famine, struggle, bitterness, war, suffering, misery, all of that for 98,000 years.

Heaven watches this with complete indifference. And then 2000 years ago, thinks 'That's enough of that. It's time to intervene,' and the best way to do this would be by condemning someone to a human sacrifice somewhere in the less literate parts of the Middle East. Don't lets appeal to the Chinese, for example, where people can read and study evidence and have a civilization. Let's go to the desert and have another revelation there. This is nonsense. It can't be believed by a thinking person.
 
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rpant_gabba said:
weren't those laws laid down the law giver? does god's morality change with time? - yes, they were given by a law giver. Laws change over time, morality doesnt.

or you claiming moses of bs'ing about hearing from god? - Christians believe the Moses story. So do Jews.

you wanted logical questions. seems like you are too weak stomached to handle tough logical questions. let me list them again. - your questions look sillly to me, I was expecting some real heavy intellectual stuff

Is the god of moses different from the god of jesus? is he different from the god of islam? - God of Moses is same as that of Jesus and Mohammed.

was moses a prophet of god? - More like a leader but sure you can consider him a prophet for Jews and Christians and Muslims..

was jesus a prophet of god? - He was the son of God, for christians. Muslims think he is just a prophet. Jews don't care for him, think he was a conman.

was mohammad a prophet of god? - Christians and Jews think he was a false prophet, Muslims don't.

if all three are prophet of same god, why the change on message over a course of 1500 years? weren't god's teaching supposed to be timeless? - They're different religions.

if they are not prophets of the same god, whose god is better? - They're all the same God, the question is who is the false prophet here ? Jesus, Moses or Mohammed.

want me to keep going? - Keep em coming. I get more difficult questions about God from seven yr old kids.
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^ Answers in italics.
 
CricketCartoons said:
That is undemocratic and fascist idea. I think we should revisit the communal award given by Ramsay MacDonald, which Morondas rejected. Where muslims will elect muslims and hindus will elect hindus. Muslim leaders will think of welfare of muslims and hindu leaders for hindus. Since hindus will not get votes from muslims and vice versa, there won't be appeasement politics, and there will be no shame in speaking for your community.

Lets us bring back the beauty of communal electorate.
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The reason why this doesn’t work is first of all Bharat is a a Hindu rashtra first and a secular democracy later. Without this, Hinduism faces the threat of extinction.

This only encourages the Muslims to consolidate their political power even further through conversions and having more children than Hindu families and gradually increase their representation in the Lok Sabha to the point they would take over, replace our constitution with Sharia and hoist the green flag over Lal Quila.

We cannot allow that.
 
CricketCartoons said:
That is undemocratic and fascist idea. I think we should revisit the communal award given by Ramsay MacDonald, which Morondas rejected. Where muslims will elect muslims and hindus will elect hindus. Muslim leaders will think of welfare of muslims and hindu leaders for hindus. Since hindus will not get votes from muslims and vice versa, there won't be appeasement politics, and there will be no shame in speaking for your community.

Lets us bring back the beauty of communal electorate.
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Your idea is bad for national cohesion and drives a wedge between indian citizens, might as well partition India further into religion based states.
 
RexRex said:
^ Answers in italics.
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leads to more questions.

Below in bold

yes, they were given by a law giver. Laws change over time, morality doesnt.

So slavery was moral when prescribed through moses by god and it isn't now? or is it?

or you claiming moses of bs'ing about hearing from god? - Christians believe the Moses story. So do Jews.
not what was asked. either god spoke to moses or he didn't. pick one.

you wanted logical questions. seems like you are too weak stomached to handle tough logical questions. let me list them again. - your questions look sillly to me, I was expecting some real heavy intellectual stuff
One way to dodge what you can't answer is to call it siily. very common among minded among religious

Is the god of moses different from the god of jesus? is he different from the god of islam? - God of Moses is same as that of Jesus and Mohammed.
first straight answer. so this god of objective morality bothered to ban shrimp but blessed rape, genocide, incest and slavery?

was moses a prophet of god? - More like a leader but sure you can consider him a prophet for Jews and Christians and Muslims..
you are dodging again

was jesus a prophet of god? - He was the son of God, for christians. Muslims think he is just a prophet. Jews don't care for him, think he was a conman.
you are dodging again

was mohammad a prophet of god? - Christians and Jews think he was a false prophet, Muslims don't.
you are dodging again

if all three are prophet of same god, why the change on message over a course of 1500 years? weren't god's teaching supposed to be timeless? - They're different religions.

so religion is manmade?

if they are not prophets of the same god, whose god is better? - They're all the same God, the question is who is the false prophet here ? Jesus, Moses or Mohammed.

what is you answer. I've the stones call bs on all three them being prophets. do you? BTW, the same goes for rama and krishna
 
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RexRex said:
Your idea is bad for national cohesion and drives a wedge between indian citizens, might as well partition India further into religion based states.
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nah. should have stood firm and moved all muslims to country given for muslims. if muslims in india are unhappy with state of affairs, GOI should facilitate their move to west or east pakistan.

Can solve a lot of problems that way.
 
RexRex said:
Your idea is bad for national cohesion and drives a wedge between indian citizens, might as well partition India further into religion based states.
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There is no national cohesion.

This wedge will contain the cancer. Syncretism has failed. Communalism is the future.
 
Is this thread about Moses and Jesus????

Stop derailing the thread with these kind of stuff that makes no sense for this thread. Stay on topic here or find some other thread if you cannot keep up on topic.
 
rpant_gabba said:
leads to more questions.

Below in bold

yes, they were given by a law giver. Laws change over time, morality doesnt.

So slavery was moral when prescribed through moses by god and it isn't now? or is it?

or you claiming moses of bs'ing about hearing from god? - Christians believe the Moses story. So do Jews.
not what was asked. either god spoke to moses or he didn't. pick one.

you wanted logical questions. seems like you are too weak stomached to handle tough logical questions. let me list them again. - your questions look sillly to me, I was expecting some real heavy intellectual stuff
One way to dodge what you can't answer is to call it siily. very common among minded among religious

Is the god of moses different from the god of jesus? is he different from the god of islam? - God of Moses is same as that of Jesus and Mohammed.
first straight answer. so this god of objective morality bothered to ban shrimp but blessed rape, genocide, incest and slavery?

was moses a prophet of god? - More like a leader but sure you can consider him a prophet for Jews and Christians and Muslims..
you are dodging again

was jesus a prophet of god? - He was the son of God, for christians. Muslims think he is just a prophet. Jews don't care for him, think he was a conman.
you are dodging again

was mohammad a prophet of god? - Christians and Jews think he was a false prophet, Muslims don't.
you are dodging again

if all three are prophet of same god, why the change on message over a course of 1500 years? weren't god's teaching supposed to be timeless? - They're different religions.

so religion is manmade?

if they are not prophets of the same god, whose god is better? - They're all the same God, the question is who is the false prophet here ? Jesus, Moses or Mohammed.

what is you answer. I've the stones call bs on all three them being prophets. do you? BTW, the same goes for rama and krishna
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Mods have told not to derail thread, so no more posts on this. Maybe continue on another more appropriate thread.
 
CricketCartoons said:
There is no national cohesion.

This wedge will contain the cancer. Syncretism has failed. Communalism is the future.
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Once the mid & immediate post-partition generations die out, I suspect cohesion will be much better. The younger generations of both sides are not interested in communalism, they just want to make money and live their lives.
 
rpant_gabba said:
nah. should have stood firm and moved all muslims to country given for muslims. if muslims in india are unhappy with state of affairs, GOI should facilitate their move to west or east pakistan.
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who said they are unhappy ? It seems are you assuming a lot of things without basis.
 
RexRex said:
Once the mid & immediate post-partition generations die out, I suspect cohesion will be much better. The younger generations of both sides are not interested in communalism, they just want to make money and live their lives.
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Revisit this thought again in 5 years and then 10 years from now. And realize how wrong you were.

Till then enjoy the certainty of your opinion.
 
RexRex said:
Once the mid & immediate post-partition generations die out, I suspect cohesion will be much better. The younger generations of both sides are not interested in communalism, they just want to make money and live their lives.
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Nah... Facebook, WhatsApp and other fakenews have created a new generation of suspicious and fervent haters. Just like the younger generation of Dems and Republicans in the US seem to hate each other more - antifa, woke, racists, MAGA'ers, a whole new generation of Hindu and Muslim Indians who live in their own extremely biased news and opinion bubbles and deeply hate each other have emerged.
 
RexRex said:
who said they are unhappy ? It seems are you assuming a lot of things without basis.
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Maybe they're not unhappy but continuing with my earlier post, their own opinion bubbles are creating a generation of very paranoid young Muslims who're convinced the Hindu majority is out to get them. The best of them move abroad, the next try their best to integrate and keep a careful low profile, those in the bottom half are tending to ghettoise and at worst turn to extremist options.
 
What does Pakistan or its PM has to do with this thread???

Is it necessary to bring Pakistan in every thread?
 
No one has been able to provide a satisfactory answer to this question:

Does a Hindu's identity diminish if they reside in a country where steak and beef are readily available in grocery stores and restaurants?

Why do Hindus in India often react violently when people of other faiths consume steak, yet remain non-violent in other countries? How does geography influence a Hindu's behavior in this regard?

I am nearly certain that Hinduism advocates respect for cows, but does it dictate that Hindus should prevent non-believers from consuming steak?

Are cows in America or the UAE considered less sacred than those in India?

Is this issue intertwined with political dynamics in India?

No one has given a comprehensive explanation beyond referencing national laws. What do Hindu scriptures specifically state about this issue? Is there any doctrinal guidance on how Hindus should respond to people of other faiths eating steak? Please avoid emotional responses.
 
cricketjoshila said:
India's reputation isn't even touched by what pakistanis utter. Ask Imran Khan, he spent a lot of time ranting about India on twitter.
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Reputation is on the line, but most just ignore it since India now flaunts deep pockets. Modi could himself, again, could kill large number of Muslim kids and no one will bat an eye. :)
 
HalBass9 said:
No one has been able to provide a satisfactory answer to this question:

Does a Hindu's identity diminish if they reside in a country where steak and beef are readily available in grocery stores and restaurants?

Why do Hindus in India often react violently when people of other faiths consume steak, yet remain non-violent in other countries? How does geography influence a Hindu's behavior in this regard?

I am nearly certain that Hinduism advocates respect for cows, but does it dictate that Hindus should prevent non-believers from consuming steak?

Are cows in America or the UAE considered less sacred than those in India?

Is this issue intertwined with political dynamics in India?

No one has given a comprehensive explanation beyond referencing national laws. What do Hindu scriptures specifically state about this issue? Is there any doctrinal guidance on how Hindus should respond to people of other faiths eating steak? Please avoid emotional responses.
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Let me ask the obvious question which should be asked before all these.

"Why anti Muslim bias is so profound among Hindutva supporters?"​


What are the evidences to support this "fact" in the first place? If it gets establish as fact, then only the next series of question makes sense. But no one has able to prove the question in the thread title itself.

or else anyone can come here, make x, y, z claim and lower the quality of the forum.
 
HalBass9 said:
No one has been able to provide a satisfactory answer to this question:

Does a Hindu's identity diminish if they reside in a country where steak and beef are readily available in grocery stores and restaurants?

Why do Hindus in India often react violently when people of other faiths consume steak, yet remain non-violent in other countries? How does geography influence a Hindu's behavior in this regard?

I am nearly certain that Hinduism advocates respect for cows, but does it dictate that Hindus should prevent non-believers from consuming steak?

Are cows in America or the UAE considered less sacred than those in India?

Is this issue intertwined with political dynamics in India?

No one has given a comprehensive explanation beyond referencing national laws. What do Hindu scriptures specifically state about this issue? Is there any doctrinal guidance on how Hindus should respond to people of other faiths eating steak? Please avoid emotional responses.
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I think they are pretentious. That's the logical explanation.

Muslims normally follow their faith same way whether they live in Pakistan or Norway. Our methods don't change (for example, eating halal).

Another explanation I can think of is they try hard to fuse Indian nationalism with Hinduism. It ends up being a hotchpotch.
 
Itachi said:
Let me ask the obvious question which should be asked before all these.

"Why anti Muslim bias is so profound among Hindutva supporters?"​


What are the evidences to support this "fact" in the first place? If it gets establish as fact, then only the next series of question makes sense. But no one has able to prove the question in the thread title itself.

or else anyone can come here, make x, y, z claim and lower the quality of the forum.
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I forgot to add, please avoid rhetoric questions as well emotional reply.

Thanks
 
BouncerGuy said:
QUESTION:

Why anti Muslim bias is so profound among Hindutva supporters?​


Have anything to say about this topic?????
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You don't need pages and pages of back and forth debates to answer this question...

It's simple and it always comes down to the same thing and that is "insecurity"...
 
Itachi said:
Let me ask the obvious question which should be asked before all these.

"Why anti Muslim bias is so profound among Hindutva supporters?"​


What are the evidences to support this "fact" in the first place? If it gets establish as fact, then only the next series of question makes sense. But no one has able to prove the question in the thread title itself.

or else anyone can come here, make x, y, z claim and lower the quality of the forum.
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Go through this thread or hindutva supporters and gaza thread and you will get to know how right or wrong this statement is.
 
sweep_shot said:
I think they are pretentious. That's the logical explanation.

Muslims normally follow their faith same way whether they live in Pakistan or Norway. Our methods don't change (for example, eating halal).

Another explanation I can think of is they try hard to fuse Indian nationalism with Hinduism. It ends up being a hotchpotch.
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Not comparing with Muslims.

Just trying to understand why American cows are less revered, while the same cow in India would incite Hindutva extremists to commit murder over someone eating steak.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Go through this thread or hindutva supporters and gaza thread and you will get to know how right or wrong this statement is.
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So.... your base of the conclusion for the thread title is a thread in a forum where it is partcipated by Hindus that are countable on your fingers?
 
HalBass9 said:
I forgot to add, please avoid rhetoric questions as well emotional reply.

Thanks
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This is the hpocritical stance

They demand answers yet they don't want to hear questions.

It's as if, people have build own delusional castle where they live their fantasy but can't face the questions in the context of the very base because those people themselves knows that, that castle will break in front of the weight of reality.

This is very different from previous discourses in PP where the Pak ppers too were not afraid of questions and debated equallly with facts and logics (Namak Halal, Momo, WL365, Dhoni.... ) I actually miss them because when you post anything in any subject, their reply used to make you think.
 
Itachi said:
Sourece of the above: "India hate club" .

It's written there at the bottom of the page.

Should I say more?
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Correction : India hate lab published also in renowned Al Jazeera

First you were asking data...data and now looking for a safe exit. Understandable
 
The Bald Eagle said:
Correction : India hate lab published also in renowned Al Jazeera

First you were asking data...data and now looking for a safe exit. Understandable
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This is exactly the point I made above.

Tomorrow some poster will bring those stats from anti Islamic hate groups to establish their argument.

This is the blatant agenda driven "data" that lowers the quality of content.
 
HalBass9 said:
Reputation is on the line, but most just ignore it since India now flaunts deep pockets. Modi could himself, again, could kill large number of Muslim kids and no one will bat an eye. :)
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Reputation is on the line? Really?
 
sweep_shot said:
Not surprising at all.

Even on this forum, we can see that. There are posters from many different countries. But, anti-Islam posts tend to come from Indians. Some even gave approvals for Israeli attacks on Palestinians.
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There are Muslims and non muslims on this forum.

Israel vs Palestine war is not a concern of India. Some Indians may support Israel because Israel supported India during wars.
 
cricketjoshila said:
There are Muslims and non muslims on this forum.

Israel vs Palestine war is not a concern of India. Some Indians may support Israel because Israel supported India during wars.
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A question out of curiosity why Indians here not that fervently supported Russia against Ukraine. They literally helped you in partition of United Pakistan.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
A question out of curiosity why Indians here not that fervently supported Russia against Ukraine. They literally helped you in partition of United Pakistan.
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Russia is always favored by Indians. but we are also shifting alliances towards USA. So, India walks a tight rope but has still favored Russia but we dont want to annoy the west either. But when the chips are down, India will always return the favor to Russia because of how supportive Russia had been towards India in 1971. The lone veto in UNSC is well remembered. 14-1 motion by Pakistan defeated. :D
 
Itachi said:
This is the hpocritical stance

They demand answers yet they don't want to hear questions.

It's as if, people have build own delusional castle where they live their fantasy but can't face the questions in the context of the very base because those people themselves knows that, that castle will break in front of the weight of reality.

This is very different from previous discourses in PP where the Pak ppers too were not afraid of questions and debated equallly with facts and logics (Namak Halal, Momo, WL365, Dhoni.... ) I actually miss them because when you post anything in any subject, their reply used to make you think.
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lol, are you dropping names?

I don’t demand anything nor you are required to answer.

Those who wish to engage in a discussion are free to do so.

Stop being delusional in your fragile castle.

Your question had been discussed plenty of times on various threads.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Reputation is on the line? Really?
Click to expand...

Itachi said:
This is the hpocritical stance

They demand answers yet they don't want to hear questions.

It's as if, people have build own delusional castle where they live their fantasy but can't face the questions in the context of the very base because those people themselves knows that, that castle will break in front of the weight of reality.

This is very different from previous discourses in PP where the Pak ppers too were not afraid of questions and debated equallly with facts and logics (Namak Halal, Momo, WL365, Dhoni.... ) I actually miss them because when you post anything in any subject, their reply used to make you think.
Click to expand...
And if you can’t reply within the context of my post then please do not tag me nor reply.

Do not wish to waste my time nor readers.

Thanks
 
The Bald Eagle said:
No tbh you support Israel because they are up against Muslims. Just hypothetically asking in case of a war between Russia and Israel whom will you support ?
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There is plenty of cultural, technological exchange between India and Isreal bhai. We have no connect on similar things with Palestine. Some of my college professors had done their post doc etc from Tel Aviv.

Rest, you can view everything we do as Anti- Muslim lens that your choice. That just shows your mindset.
and trust me 1999 Kargil War help is a major point when USA refused GPS support to India Air force.
 
The Bald Eagle said:
No tbh you support Israel because they are up against Muslims. Just hypothetically asking in case of a war between Russia and Israel whom will you support ?
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If Neutrality cannot be claimed then I have to guess majority of Indians will go with Russia.
One doesn't leave behind the dearest of dear and oldest friend.

Now a hypothetical for you, If China goes to war against the Arab World? Who will your support?
 
Aang_The_last_airbender said:
There is plenty of cultural, technological exchange between India and Isreal bhai. We have no connect on similar things with Palestine. Some of my college professors had done their post doc etc from Tel Aviv.

Rest, you can view everything we do as Anti- Muslim lens that your choice. That just shows your mindset.
and trust me 1999 Kargil War help is a major point when USA refused GPS support to India Air force.
Click to expand...

Leave 1999. Israel sent shipments of arms during 1971 war as well.
 
Aang_The_last_airbender said:
If Neutrality cannot be claimed then I have to guess majority of Indians will go with Russia.
One doesn't leave behind the dearest of dear and oldest friend.

Now a hypothetical for you, If China goes to war against the Arab World? Who will your support?
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Of course a Muslim nation like Turkey also Saudi Arabia. But in case of UAE ,it would be china
 
Hindutva, Israel helped us in a war against Pakistan so we must continue to support them in genocide. lol
 
IMMY69 said:
You don't need pages and pages of back and forth debates to answer this question...

It's simple and it always comes down to the same thing and that is "insecurity"...
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And identity.

For 5000 years, Hindus have failed to unite under one identity, failed to defend their land, and now they seem to think money unites them.

Weird, but hey that's what insecurity does to one.
 
BouncerGuy said:
QUESTION:

Why anti Muslim bias is so profound among Hindutva supporters?​


Have anything to say about this topic?????
Click to expand...
Maybe to help us understand we can turn to a pioneering shaper of Hinduvta thought: Savarkar. Here I am indebted, in particular, to the work of Janaki Bakhle and her outstanding intellectual biography of Savarkar: Savarkar and the Making of Hinduvta.

Savarkar and Gandhi were antagonists. Both wanted to ‘wake up’ Indians, to transform the subjective consciousness of Indians, to enable Indians to feel their ‘true’ culture in their bones. For both, sacrifice rather than self-interest, was the central precept. But whereas Gandhi emphasised non-violence and inverted masculine norms, Savarkar believed firmly in violence and the ‘spilling of blood’ and believed in a muscular form of nationalism. He also had a visceral dislike of Muslims and felt that Gandhi was too soft on Muslims.

What are some of the factors shaping his antipathy towards Muslims? One was ‘historical memory’ - no matter how simplistic that memory was. Eschewing nuance, and adopting a primary colours approach, Savarkar wrote:

“Muslims came to India and engaged in all kinds of acts; lakhs of Brahmins were lined up and mercilessly slaughtered; innumerable women were defiled by rape. Hundreds of women and children were taken off and sold into slavery in their countries; thousands of Rajput women on account of their lustful cruelty repeatedly committed jauhar—like the open jaws of a spreading volcano, into the depths of the pure fire that licked its lips they had no choice but to jump, Rajputs, Marathas, Sikhs, and other lakhs of warriors who generation after generation shed their blood to protect both their religion and their country from the attacks of these violent and lustful Muslims. Because of their boorish imagination, they don’t think any text other than the Qurān is worthy, they reduced India’s unmatched treasure of books and libraries to ash, razed thousands of temples to dust, defiled thousands of idols and looted India.”

This feeling of past collective suffering at the hands of Muslims was a particularly useful trope in Savarkar’s attempt to awaken Hindus from “narcolepsy” and unite the Hindu community.

Leading on from this is, secondly, an emphasis - in Savarkar's discourse - on a muscular form of nationalism, which encourages a belligerent stance towards Muslims. To avenge history, Hindus had to regain their masculinity. This meant:

“we need to raise a huge trained troop of young, strong, united, all rounded, capable men for the purpose of bringing back those we have lost, protecting those we have, keeping our society safe and fearless from the attacks of criminals, letting them know that Hindus will repay a slap with a slap and it is better not to go there, better not to provoke them otherwise they will thoroughly punish us, making sure we instill this dread in them [Muslims], and like Nagpur, to generate this in society, to live in peace with us but dreading us, all Hindus need to do this.”

A third factor was the influence of stereotypes. Bakhle writes:

“Savarkar’s Muslims fell into three stereotypical groups: ungrateful liars who demanded and received special treatment from the Indian government, violent and base Muslims so inherently (even genetically) monstrous that they routinely raped and murdered Hindu women and children, and Muslims who walked all over Hindus, who endured this treatment because over the centuries they had allowed themselves to be emasculated by Muslim men.”

The fourth factor was the centrality of a particular idea of the nation and the ‘sacred’ territory. It was a nativist and ultra-nationalist vision in the sense that a ‘civic’ sense of nationality, based on legal rights, was of little interest to him; his conception was of an organic nation bound by blood and undivided loyalty to its sacred geography. This meant he was deeply suspicious of Muslims and their extra-territorial allegiances which violated his idea of the need for “monogamous love” to the nation.

It would be wrong to think that all supporters of Hinduvta think alike, but I think many of Savarkar's ideas remain relevant for understanding the anti-Muslim disposition often expressed by its most fervent partisans.
 
Aang_The_last_airbender said:
Pakistan: Chinese gave us some money, so let us simply ignore the Uyghur Muslim genocide by China. lol
Click to expand...


How did I predict that at least one Hindutva supporter would respond with ‘What about Pakistan?’ and that another would take the time to endorse that reply with an emoji?

The Pakistani government is at fault for not condemning the Chinese treatment of Uyghurs, just as the Indian government is culpable for supporting genocide through their shipment of weapons.

Any rational individual would naturally oppose genocide and criticize their government for any support of such atrocities, regardless of past alliances with the perpetrating nation. However, among Hindutva supporters, a deeply ingrained animosity towards Muslims often serves as the primary motivation for such immature excuses, as exemplified

Stop finding an excuse to support genocide just because it’s againt Muslims. It not cool bro :)
 
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HalBass9 said:
No one has been able to provide a satisfactory answer to this question:

Does a Hindu's identity diminish if they reside in a country where steak and beef are readily available in grocery stores and restaurants?

Why do Hindus in India often react violently when people of other faiths consume steak, yet remain non-violent in other countries? How does geography influence a Hindu's behavior in this regard?

I am nearly certain that Hinduism advocates respect for cows, but does it dictate that Hindus should prevent non-believers from consuming steak?

Are cows in America or the UAE considered less sacred than those in India?

Is this issue intertwined with political dynamics in India?

No one has given a comprehensive explanation beyond referencing national laws. What do Hindu scriptures specifically state about this issue? Is there any doctrinal guidance on how Hindus should respond to people of other faiths eating steak? Please avoid emotional responses.
Click to expand...

Is the topic about India or Western countries?
 
The real question OP should be asking is why is everyone anti muslim and not anti any other religion? Rather than blaming hindutva or Israel or playing victim card 24*7, OP should be asking this question if he is seeking the truth. The answer is obvious to the wider world.

Kids get stabbed in Southport and right wingers goes and attacks mosque.

Why?

Why they are not attacking a temple, gurudwara or a synagogue? What is so wrong muslims are doing that they are hated and targetted everywhere unilaterally? Why the term islamophobia and why the need to spread awareness on it? It can't be that everyone is bad and targets innocent muslims. There is some realm of truth in it which is irking everyone.

India is shinning everywhere...blaming India or hindutva is an easy excuse for people like OP. However, the truth is very different which unfortunately no one wants to discuss here. I urge OP to open a thread on it
 
RexRex said:
where is research on mass forced conversions in mughal era ?
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If you are really interested, read Jadunath Sarkar books. A historian admired by William Dalrymple, but unfortunately removed from platform by indian communist distorians. Or Will Durant.
 
CricketCartoons said:
If you are really interested, read Jadunath Sarkar books. A historian admired by William Dalrymple, but unfortunately removed from platform by indian communist distorians. Or Will Durant.
Click to expand...

Not interested in any books. We keep hearing on here about how there was mass forced conversions but nobody ever elaborates or describes how it happened in detail. The idea of someone changing their religion due to force as an adult sounds hilariously silly to me.

What I can believe is, say young hindu kids being forced into islamic schools at an early age. Is that what happened ? That's the only way someone can be 'forced into' a new religion. It needs to be a young impressionable mind.
 
RexRex said:
Not interested in any books. We keep hearing on here about how there was mass forced conversions but nobody ever elaborates or describes how it happened in detail. The idea of someone changing their religion due to force as an adult sounds hilariously silly to me.

What I can believe is, say young hindu kids being forced into islamic schools at an early age. Is that what happened ? That's the only way someone can be 'forced into' a new religion. It needs to be a young impressionable mind.
Click to expand...
Why not interested in books. You want details and elaboration, but are not willing to read the books recommended for the knowledge you are seeking.

you are not interested in it even when guided to the right source.
 
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RexRex said:
Not interested in any books. We keep hearing on here about how there was mass forced conversions but nobody ever elaborates or describes how it happened in detail. The idea of someone changing their religion due to force as an adult sounds hilariously silly to me.

What I can believe is, say young hindu kids being forced into islamic schools at an early age. Is that what happened ? That's the only way someone can be 'forced into' a new religion. It needs to be a young impressionable mind.
Click to expand...
Indian history in general is poorly documented and most of what actually happened is theory and conjecture based on events around and stray comments and inscriptions.

However, multiple historians have pointed to the fact that there was a brief period of about 50-60 years where the proportion of Muslims in the population sees a massive increase. Also the fact that there's more than one example where a conquered kingdom (under say the Delhi Sultanate) saw a rapid increase in Muslims in the general population.

As you may be aware, this is a hotly debated subject and multiple historians have strong views on it all based on little evidence on either side.
 
RexRex said:
Not interested in any books. We keep hearing on here about how there was mass forced conversions but nobody ever elaborates or describes how it happened in detail. The idea of someone changing their religion due to force as an adult sounds hilariously silly to me.
Click to expand...

They can't provide any solid evidence. I guess their source is "Trust Me Bro".

Even if forced conversions happened (hypothetically), why do they care? Nobody from the convert families is converting back to Hinduism. They are happy with their current belief.
 
Technics 1210 said:
And identity.

For 5000 years, Hindus have failed to unite under one identity, failed to defend their land, and now they seem to think money unites them.

Weird, but hey that's what insecurity does to one.
Click to expand...

Money can't even unite families let alone nations. Might be a clue as to why before the Mughals India as one nation didn't really exist, it was a bunch of separate regions ruled over by different monarchs. Although of course the hindutvas will be busy trying to renivent history and tell us different.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Money can't even unite families let alone nations. Might be a clue as to why before the Mughals India as one nation didn't really exist, it was a bunch of separate regions ruled over by different monarchs. Although of course the hindutvas will be busy trying to renivent history and tell us different.
Click to expand...

Correct.

Before Mughals, the region was balkanized. Many different small kingdoms.

It seems like RSS/BJP brigade wants to rewrite history to support their hateful narrative.
 
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sweep_shot said:
Correct.

Before Mughals, the region was balkanized. Many different small kingdoms. If @cricketjoshila was present then, he might have been defending one of those small kingdoms.

It seems like RSS/BJP brigade wants to rewrite history to support their hateful narrative.
Click to expand...

I don't blame them, the concept of the Ummah is constantly brought up by hindutvas on here, it is something they wish for themselves, but because Hindu religion is not really designed for universal mankind, they had to strip away many spiritual aspects and reinvent it as a nationalist movement.
 
CricketCartoons said:
Why not interested in books. You want details and elaboration, but are not willing to read the books recommended for the knowledge you are seeking.

you are not interested in it even when guided to the right source.
Click to expand...

I don't have the time to go through 500-page books lol.

Btw I found a link for the author you cited. It has all his e-books uploaded. I'll try and read some if I can.

BJP e-Library: Books - Jadunath Sarkar

library.bjp.org library.bjp.org
 
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sweep_shot said:
Even if forced conversions happened (hypothetically), why do they care?
Click to expand...

If forced conversions really did happen, it means your ancestors really didn't believe in Islam and just took the easier path to survival. You should be troubled as a muslim and start questioning your whole life & everything u believe in.
 
Red-Indian said:
However, multiple historians have pointed to the fact that there was a brief period of about 50-60 years where the proportion of Muslims in the population sees a massive increase. Also the fact that there's more than one example where a conquered kingdom (under say the Delhi Sultanate) saw a rapid increase in Muslims in the general population.
Click to expand...

When was this 60 year period ?
 
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