Why are there no non-Muslim cricketers active in Pakistan?

[Stewie]

If India was really secular you wouldn't be breaking down different player religions by caste in the first place.

He is actually correct.
Islam really attracted the downtrodden, the subjugated and ill treated low and backward caste people in the subcontinent, who were actually not even considered hindus by Brahmins and other higher castes. They will pour molten lead into the ears of the low caste poor people if they happened to hear the words uttered by higher caste Brahmins. THE LOW AND BACKWARD CASTE (its interesting to note the words "backward" and "low" are still used to describe some of their fellow hindus by the so called "high" caste hindus) were considered untouchables.

So it was no surprise they accepted Islam and its message of equality en masse. For once, this guy is actually telling the truth.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

He is actually correct.
Islam really attracted the downtrodden, the subjugated and ill treated low and backward caste people in the subcontinent, who were actually not even considered hindus by Brahmins and other higher castes. They will pour molten lead into the ears of the low caste poor people if they happened to hear the words uttered by higher caste Brahmins. THE LOW AND BACKWARD CASTE (its interesting to note the words "backward" and "low" are still used to describe some of their fellow hindus by the so called "high" caste hindus) were considered untouchables.

So it was no surprise they accepted Islam and its message of equality en masse. For once, this guy is actually telling the truth.

Just strikes me that caste or religion have no bearing on sporting ability anyway, I said this with regard to the original question, and it obviously holds the same now comparisons are being made to Indian team. Unless it was important, why would you even distinguish along those lines? It's not something to use as a bragging right re secularity.

 

[RexRex]

Because the two are not mutually exclusive. Pakistan does recognize the minorities and their rights and they are even represented on the flag. Pakistani cricket team has had minority players in the past and there are plenty of Hindu and Christian judges and other government officers in Pakistan as well.

A Muslim democratic republic, if governed properly provides more rights to non Muslims than Saudia Arabia and UAE etc where minorities love to live even without equal rights just for the money.

I brought up the name since there are only about three countries which mention religion in their official name and that's revealing. That would be Islamic Pakistan, Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan and Islamic Republic of Iran.

What does your bolded statement above even mean ? That is a very subjective statement, when you say Pakistan isn't following islamic laws properly. Who decides that ? I mean .. this week in the news you saw Afghanistan saying it would bring back stoning for adultery since that is what Islam prescribes. Are they following proper islamic governance?

 

[KB]

There are four Christian Pakistani Test cricketers since 1947.

Wallis Mathias - sadly died at the age of 59 in 1994.
Antao D'Souza - also of Goan descent and still alive.
Duncan Sharpe - the only white Pakistani cricketer and currently living in Australia. According to his niece, he had a brother called Robin who passed away in 1990 who played club cricket in Pakistan.
Mohammad Yousuf - who obviously converted to Islam in 2005.

There was also another Christian called Sohail Fazal who played a couple of ODIs in 1989.

I wish someone would write a book on the minority cricketers of Pakistan before these men are no longer around to share their stories. England and Australia constantly promote their history. If we don't tell our story who will ?

Arguably the Christian that most influenced cricket in Pakistan, was a non-cricketer: Alvin Robert Cornelius (1903-1991).

He was senior vice-president when the Board of Control for Cricket in Pakistan was founded in 1948. He became the most influential administrator.

It is easy to forget that it was not inevitable that Pakistan cricket would become the key sport in Pakistan. As Peter Oborne has pointed out in his history of the game in the country, Pakistan cricket began its life with no Test match grounds, only two turf pitches and no first class cricket competition. Funds and infrastructure were sorely lacking.

Cornelius played a critical role in establishing an administrative framework, in providing a vision and in attracting funding and support through government and private means. Without him progress would have been far more stunted. Chris Valiotis, who wrote a thesis on Pakistani cricket, summarised his impact:

“Cornelius is seen as the 'founding father' of cricket in Pakistan. His zest for cricket organisation and development in Pakistan, even in light of the problems caused by the administrative inefficiencies of those around him, paralleled his efforts to provide the country with a judicial system of national repute. He implemented strategies that sought to strengthen and entrench cricket in Pakistan.”

Cornelius was a remarkable figure. Although he did much to shape Pakistan cricket in its formative years as the key administrator, he is better known for the fact that he was on the Supreme Court from 1951 to 1968 and served as Chief Justice of Pakistan from 1960 to 1968. He supported ‘Islamisation' but from an Islamic modernist perspective. He was one of two Indian Christians, in the Indian Civil Service, who opted for service in Pakistan after partition.

“It is remarkable,” wrote the political scientist, Ralph Braibanti, “that in a country as self-consciously Muslim as Pakistan, the question of his religion was muted if not ignored. Except for one brief incident in 1970, it was never a serious political issue.”

This quotation reminds is that while it was not all sweetness and light before 1970, from around this year there was a change in the state’s association with Islam. Rather than the state emphasising the ethical aspects of Islam, its compatibility with modernity and treating the meaning of Islam as open-ended and aspirational, from around 1970 the state became far more embroiled in defining boundaries of Islam. As the historian, Barbara Metcalf, perceptively noted, writing in 1982:

“There has not been a ‘rebirth’ of Islam in Pakistan. A passionate attachment to a Muslim identity has been a constant in Pakistan’s self-image and in the rhetoric of the politicians. The content given that identity has shifted…the interpretation of Islam fostered by the state changed from one that sought to be ‘rational and scientific’ to one that stressed adherence to…the cosmetic and highly visible symbols of Islam - for example, certain public punishments and the prohibition of alcohol.”

Cornelius - a brilliant early figure in Pakistan - is a reminder that we must never flatten history and draw straight lines from the past to the present.

 

[offstump]

If India was really secular you wouldn't be breaking down different player religions by caste in the first place.

It’s ironic that we have Indians here boasting about secularism and demanding the ICC sanction Pakistan for alleged discrimination but somehow know the castes of all players and are breaking it down like it’s normal, which shows how discriminatory Indian society is.

 

[Stewie]

I brought up the name since there are only about three countries which mention religion in their official name and that's revealing. That would be Islamic Pakistan, Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan and Islamic Republic of Iran.

What does your bolded statement above even mean ? That is a very subjective statement, when you say Pakistan isn't following islamic laws properly. Who decides that ? I mean .. this week in the news you saw Afghanistan saying it would bring back stoning for adultery since that is what Islam prescribes. Are they following proper islamic governance?

Dont go by names. Even though I know you guys (Indian Hindus) love to hate Pakistan and Pakistanis and our association with an Islamic identity.

But what you have posed is a loaded question. So I will try to handle it the best I can. This will take some explaining because I get the feeling most of you guys, INDIAN HINDUS, have been fed a lot of garbage by your current government and your understanding and perception of some concepts of Islamic Jurisprudence are way way off. And this is not a subjective statement, I can actually prove my point to you here.

So here goes:

" brought up the name since there are only about three countries which mention religion in their official name and that's revealing. That would be Islamic Pakistan, Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan and Islamic Republic of Iran."

My thoughts: Do not go by name. Because KSA and UAE dont have Islamic Republic or Muslim Republic in their names but their laws are probably much closer to Sharia law than Pakistan, but once again.. note I said "closer". Their form of governance is not truly Islamic, in fact, quite the opposite. Islam does not recognize monarchy as the proper mode of governance. The recommended method of governance in Islam is a form of democracy, wherein a committee of elders or leaders picks an Emir or Khalifa. It is not meant to be dictatorial which is essentially what monarchy is. So that rules out Afghanistan as well because I do not believe Taliban are democratic in any sense.

So given by name, are the three countries you named truly Islamic republics? The answer is No, for a number of reasons, except maybe for Iran. I am no expert on Iran but I think they come pretty close based on the Shiite laws which differ a bit from Sunni laws. Pakistan is a majority Sunni Muslim country but we do have a considerable Shiite population as well.
So let us talk about Pakistan. We use a constitution which is an amalgamation of the British const, with bits and pieces of Islamic law. But truly, it is not representative of what a Muslim state can or should look like. Because a 100% implementation of Sharia law is essential to describe what an Islamic Republic would look like. At least thats what the scholars would tell you. Islam is not like other faiths or religions. It is very very very clear on what governance and law should look like. It gives you a proper frame of reference for both so unless you follow those to the T, you cannot claim to be an Islamic Republic.

The best way to describe such states would be "a state where majority Muslims live, with partial implementation of Islamic jurisprudence".

So you would question my statement, why I believe non-Muslims would be better off in an Islamic republic "done right". I said that because Islamic Jurisprudence takes great effort to define the rights and protections given to non Muslim minorities. They are entitled to practising their own faith. They are entitled to wirshipping their own God or dieties. (For more information: https://iifa-aifi.org/en/33097.html).

There are certain aspects of it though that we need to be mindful of. The non Muslims pay a certain tax for these protections. it is called "jaziya" which may or may not be equal to the tax that Muslims pay, called "zakat". So you have to bear in mind that in Islamic state, Zakat is the main tax. And non muslims dont have pay it. They pay jaziya and that payment basically holds the Islamic state by law to provide them with protections against foreign and domestic.

The state is responsible for establishing law and order and justice. Now, I am no legal expert here but I believe stoning is the punishment for adultery but it requires that you have eye witnesses. Having a proper eye witnesses and a minimum number of eye witnesses is very important. You dont get stoned to death for allegation. Whether this punishment is too barbaric and needs to be reformed, not my place to judge so I wont say anything on it. Same with some other penalties, such as one for theft.

Blasphemy laws are also to be implemented by the state. Which means the type of crowd justice we see in pakistan is UNISLAMIC and illegal. Non muslims are given a fair trial and an opportunity to defend themselves. They are also FORGIVEN if they admit to committing blasphemy and apologize. These are not OPINIONS, I am telling you about the actual laws from Islamic Jurisprudence. I am not citing proper reference materials here but you can easily google them.


I hope this post helped clear some of the questions you posed and perhaps also negate some of the perceptions you had about Islamic republics. IN summary, an Islamic Republic, by default does not mean non Muslims are not protected or dont have any rights, or cannot represent the state in any sports, etc. All those rights and protection are provided to the non Muslim citizens. With that being said, once again Pakistan is an Islamic Rpublic in NAME ONLY. It is very hard to find a particular state in this day and age that is truly representative of what an Islamic REpublic would look like.

 

[Stewie]

and the best part is Islam does not recognize any caste system and have no reservations for people with "backward" or "low" castes.

SO in my view it provides for a lot more opportunity for growth and freedoms than modern day governance of a lot of the countries. Can a hindu of a backward caste become a preacher or big cheese of a mandir? basically take the job of a brahmin? I dont know the answer to that question but I can tell you that in Islamic Laws there are no such restrictions. If a Hindu reverts to Islam and through hard work becomes a scholar and Imam, I am oglibated to pray behind him and I will pray behind him, no questions asked.

 

[Mockingbird]

and the best part is Islam does not recognize any caste system and have no reservations for people with "backward" or "low" castes.

SO in my view it provides for a lot more opportunity for growth and freedoms than modern day governance of a lot of the countries. Can a hindu of a backward caste become a preacher or big cheese of a mandir? basically take the job of a brahmin? I dont know the answer to that question but I can tell you that in Islamic Laws there are no such restrictions. If a Hindu reverts to Islam and through hard work becomes a scholar and Imam, I am oglibated to pray behind him and I will pray behind him, no questions asked.

Unlike in Islam, Hindu preachers do not actually make any kind of money, so many aren’t interested in those kind of jobs anymore. So while this maybe historically true, being a preacher has no significance in modern India. Infact, a common grouse is jobs/education being reserved for backward classes due to affirmative action & forward classes being adversely affected by that.

 

[Stewie]

Unlike in Islam, Hindu preachers do not actually make any kind of money, so many aren’t interested in those kind of jobs anymore. So while this maybe historically true, being a preacher has no significance in modern India. Infact, a common grouse is jobs/education being reserved for backward classes due to affirmative action & forward classes being adversely affected by that.

I did not know Muslim preachers make any money. Maybe you know something I dont.
There are tons of tableeghi jamats and tableegh is done on voluntary basis. Also a lot of imams at masjids hold regular jobs and do imamat just for "sawab". Yes there are some who are appointed on regular positions by the governing committee of a masjid to make sure there is someone to lead the prayer every time there is one and they get paid, but its not a legal requirement.

It still does not answer my question though. Can someone from a backward caste administer a hindu wedding, or be in charge of a temple if he wanted to? Are you saying that Ram mandir will be run by hundred percent non paid pandit or worship leader?

 

[gani999]

and the best part is Islam does not recognize any caste system and have no reservations for people with "backward" or "low" castes.

SO in my view it provides for a lot more opportunity for growth and freedoms than modern day governance of a lot of the countries. Can a hindu of a backward caste become a preacher or big cheese of a mandir? basically take the job of a brahmin? I dont know the answer to that question but I can tell you that in Islamic Laws there are no such restrictions. If a Hindu reverts to Islam and through hard work becomes a scholar and Imam, I am oglibated to pray behind him and I will pray behind him, no questions asked.

Muslims in India have plenty of castes among them. The highest caste are the Sharifs/Ashrafs, followed by the Altrafs and then by the Aljafs and Arzal. There are also 'low caste' muslims like Mehtars. And yes, high caste muslims in India don't associate with the 'low caste' ones. I've heard this from the mehtar maids who used to work in our home. One of their sons got beaten up by high caste muslims when he was seen speaking to the daughter of a high caste muslim.

 

[gani999]

If India was really secular you wouldn't be breaking down different player religions by caste in the first place.

Religion and caste are a reality in India. It is just that Indian cricket is inclusive and does not discriminate, much like many other institutions in India. Kinda difficult for some people here to understand...

 

[Stewie]

Muslims in India have plenty of castes among them. The highest caste are the Sharifs/Ashrafs, followed by the Altrafs and then by the Aljafs and Arzal. There are also 'low caste' muslims like Mehtars. And yes, high caste muslims in India don't associate with the 'low caste' ones. I've heard this from the mehtar maids who used to work in our home. One of their sons got beaten up by high caste muslims when he was seen speaking to the daughter of a high caste muslim.

This is rather unfortunate and has become part of a culture in India and by association somewhat Pakistan too. But the caste system is characteristic of the subcontinent, and has no basis in Islam and the larger Muslim world outside of the sub-continent?

I believe it originated in the SC as a way to identify one's profession. Brahmins were the keepers of the religions, Kshatriyas were soldiers, etc. So the religion in a way defined the castes and their inhumane treatment of lower castes. There is no such thing in Islam. The caste issues you see in Muslim India is actually a vestige of their hindu background or environment.

 

[Statpadder Inc]

This is rather unfortunate and has become part of a culture in India and by association somewhat Pakistan too. But the caste system is characteristic of the subcontinent, and has no basis in Islam and the larger Muslim world outside of the sub-continent?

I believe it originated in the SC as a way to identify one's profession. Brahmins were the keepers of the religions, Kshatriyas were soldiers, etc. So the religion in a way defined the castes and their inhumane treatment of lower castes. There is no such thing in Islam. The caste issues you see in Muslim India, is actually a vestige of their hindu background or environment.

Tons of Subcontinental muslims still identify with their castes, especially in India. Most bollywood muslim actors are Ashrafs.

Even in Pak you seem many Jatt and Rajput muslims.

Even Christians in India identify as Sc/St to gain the benefits of reservations

 

[Statpadder Inc]

The surprising thing is that we have had more sikhs and more christians represent India despite their population being lower than that of minorities in Pakistan

 

[Stewie]

Tons of Subcontinental muslims still identify with their castes, especially in India. Most bollywood muslim actors are Ashrafs.

Even in Pak you seem many Jatt and Rajput muslims.

Even Christians in India identify as Sc/St to gain the benefits of reservations

Identifying with a caste in Pakistan is now more of a tribal thing. We do it, yes, there is nothing wrong with or say unIslamic about identifying with a tribe.

But putting a heirarchy around it is wrong and unIslamic. I have Jatt, Rajputs, etc in my family, its a hodge podge and thankfully none of them considers themselves better than the next person. I think that part was the standout characterisitic of the caste system and thakfully it has lost most of its shape in Pakistan now.

 

[IMMY69]

India has ex millions of Muslims and Hindus and there is a fair representation of them in Indian cricket teams...

Our Indian brothers are right about England, Australia, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh

 

[offstump]

The surprising thing is that we have had more sikhs and more christians represent India despite their population being lower than that of minorities in Pakistan

There are less Christians in India than Pakistan? Where are you getting these stats from?

 

[Statpadder Inc]

There are less Christians in India than Pakistan? Where are you getting these stats from?

I didn't phrase it correctly, Christians are 2.3℅ of our population and we have had more Christian players than all pak minority players combined the same goes for sikhs who are 1.79℅.

Minorities make up 3.5℅ of Pakistan's population

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Religion and caste are a reality in India. It is just that Indian cricket is inclusive and does not discriminate, much like many other institutions in India. Kinda difficult for some people here to understand...

Yes it's difficult for some people to understand. Pakistanis themselves have not been able to rid themselves of caste discrimination, which originated from hindu beliefs, yet Indians who rejoice in hindutva claim there is no caste or religious discrimination in India.

 

[ExpressPacer]

While I do not doubt that there is malicious intent behind this thread, I'll entertain it.

Christians who have played for Pakistan: 5

1. Duncan Sharpe
2. Wallis Mathias
3. Billy Ibadulla
4. Antao DSouza
5. Mohammad Yousuf

I don't like misappropriating people's names, so I chose to use MY's current name to address him.

I do recall there being more, but their names escaped me.

Hindus who have played for Pakistan: 2

1. Anil Dalpat
2. Danish Kaneria

All this, despite there being a greater number of Hindus in Pakistan than Christians.

I'll highlight three reasons for the low Hindu representation. Two of which would address problems that Hindus specifically face. Please note that these reasons will not encompass racial, religious, or color discrimination, as those are well-known factors. Instead, I aim to delve into lesser-discussed aspects that outsiders may be less familiar with.

1.) Their population is relatively small. Hindus constitute only 2.1% of Pakistan's total population, whereas in Bangladesh, they represent 8%, with a significant concentration in urban areas, thus amplifying their societal impact.

While this is the primary reason so few of them are in the National Team, one might still anticipate at least a couple among every hundred players. Therefore, I'll delve into more detailed explanations for their limited representation.

2.) Most Hindus are concentrated in interior Sindh, one of the poorest regions in Pakistan. Representation of Muslims from this area is already limited, let alone representation of a minority. While I sympathize with them, it's crucial to acknowledge that many of them have contributed to their plight by consistently voting for PPP. We must remember the root cause, even if it discomforts those who may be unaware of the ground realities.

Also, there's been a noticeable decline in sports participation from Sindh. Over time, cricket seems to be increasingly dominated by players from Punjab and KP. Perhaps Balochistan will take Sindh's slice of the pie.

After adding provincial discrimination into the mix, we can reduce that two for every hundred players to less than one player for every hundred players.

3.) Many Pakistani Hindus adhere firmly to their local customs and religious beliefs, often abstaining from consuming certain meats. While some may overlook it, even small percentages become significant in a competitive environment with millions. Economically, meat is affordable to a large segment of the Pakistani population, particularly those who rely on it for nutrition amidst an otherwise unhealthy diet. If you take some of that crucial protein out of the equation, it becomes difficult to keep up with the competitors.

In conclusion, the cumulative disadvantage, compounded by the factors I've outlined, serves as the final blow, making it highly improbable for a Hindu player to break into the National Team.

This is a brilliant post.

@Rajdeep you raise a valid point but objectively speaking, Sindhis in general are severely underrepresented in Pakistan cricket. Therefore, it is natural that Hindus, who are largely based in Sindh, are also underrepresented. The only truly Sindhi cricketer I can think of is Dahani.

Therefore, Hindus are not underrepresented necessarily because they are Hindu. Rather, the whole province, excluding Karachi, is underrepresented.

 

[RexRex]

Dont go by names. Even though I know you guys (Indian Hindus) love to hate Pakistan and Pakistanis and our association with an Islamic identity.

But what you have posed is a loaded question. So I will try to handle it the best I can. This will take some explaining because I get the feeling most of you guys, INDIAN HINDUS, have been fed a lot of garbage by your current government and your understanding and perception of some concepts of Islamic Jurisprudence are way way off. And this is not a subjective statement, I can actually prove my point to you here.

So here goes:

" brought up the name since there are only about three countries which mention religion in their official name and that's revealing. That would be Islamic Pakistan, Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan and Islamic Republic of Iran."

My thoughts: Do not go by name. Because KSA and UAE dont have Islamic Republic or Muslim Republic in their names but their laws are probably much closer to Sharia law than Pakistan, but once again.. note I said "closer". Their form of governance is not truly Islamic, in fact, quite the opposite. Islam does not recognize monarchy as the proper mode of governance. The recommended method of governance in Islam is a form of democracy, wherein a committee of elders or leaders picks an Emir or Khalifa. It is not meant to be dictatorial which is essentially what monarchy is. So that rules out Afghanistan as well because I do not believe Taliban are democratic in any sense.

So given by name, are the three countries you named truly Islamic republics? The answer is No, for a number of reasons, except maybe for Iran. I am no expert on Iran but I think they come pretty close based on the Shiite laws which differ a bit from Sunni laws. Pakistan is a majority Sunni Muslim country but we do have a considerable Shiite population as well.
So let us talk about Pakistan. We use a constitution which is an amalgamation of the British const, with bits and pieces of Islamic law. But truly, it is not representative of what a Muslim state can or should look like. Because a 100% implementation of Sharia law is essential to describe what an Islamic Republic would look like. At least thats what the scholars would tell you. Islam is not like other faiths or religions. It is very very very clear on what governance and law should look like. It gives you a proper frame of reference for both so unless you follow those to the T, you cannot claim to be an Islamic Republic.

The best way to describe such states would be "a state where majority Muslims live, with partial implementation of Islamic jurisprudence".

So you would question my statement, why I believe non-Muslims would be better off in an Islamic republic "done right". I said that because Islamic Jurisprudence takes great effort to define the rights and protections given to non Muslim minorities. They are entitled to practising their own faith. They are entitled to wirshipping their own God or dieties. (For more information: https://iifa-aifi.org/en/33097.html).

There are certain aspects of it though that we need to be mindful of. The non Muslims pay a certain tax for these protections. it is called "jaziya" which may or may not be equal to the tax that Muslims pay, called "zakat". So you have to bear in mind that in Islamic state, Zakat is the main tax. And non muslims dont have pay it. They pay jaziya and that payment basically holds the Islamic state by law to provide them with protections against foreign and domestic.

The state is responsible for establishing law and order and justice. Now, I am no legal expert here but I believe stoning is the punishment for adultery but it requires that you have eye witnesses. Having a proper eye witnesses and a minimum number of eye witnesses is very important. You dont get stoned to death for allegation. Whether this punishment is too barbaric and needs to be reformed, not my place to judge so I wont say anything on it. Same with some other penalties, such as one for theft.

Blasphemy laws are also to be implemented by the state. Which means the type of crowd justice we see in pakistan is UNISLAMIC and illegal. Non muslims are given a fair trial and an opportunity to defend themselves. They are also FORGIVEN if they admit to committing blasphemy and apologize. These are not OPINIONS, I am telling you about the actual laws from Islamic Jurisprudence. I am not citing proper reference materials here but you can easily google them.


I hope this post helped clear some of the questions you posed and perhaps also negate some of the perceptions you had about Islamic republics. IN summary, an Islamic Republic, by default does not mean non Muslims are not protected or dont have any rights, or cannot represent the state in any sports, etc. All those rights and protection are provided to the non Muslim citizens. With that being said, once again Pakistan is an Islamic Rpublic in NAME ONLY. It is very hard to find a particular state in this day and age that is truly representative of what an Islamic REpublic would look like.

To be clear, you want Pakistan to properly follow all the laws of Islamic Jurisprudence, not just a partial implementation ?

Also .. a committe of elders selecting a leader is not a 'form of democracy', what a strange thing to say .. it is exactly how Xi Jingping became China's defacto king.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This is a brilliant post.

@Rajdeep you raise a valid point but objectively speaking, Sindhis in general are severely underrepresented in Pakistan cricket. Therefore, it is natural that Hindus, who are largely based in Sindh, are also underrepresented. The only truly Sindhi cricketer I can think of is Dahani.

Therefore, Hindus are not underrepresented necessarily because they are Hindu. Rather, the whole province, excluding Karachi, is underrepresented.

Kashmiris seem to be underrepresented as well. Quite surprising as the British Pakistanis of Kashmir origin are all very keen followers of the game. There doesn't seem to be a PSL team from that region either.

 

[gani999]

Yes it's difficult for some people to understand. Pakistanis themselves have not been able to rid themselves of caste discrimination, which originated from hindu beliefs, yet Indians who rejoice in hindutva claim there is no caste or religious discrimination in India.

Most Indians won't deny that there is caste or religious discrimination in India. However, it doesn't seem to affect many institutions in India, including sport, as much as some would think. There is still plenty of meritocracy going around.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Most Indians won't deny that there is caste or religious discrimination in India. However, it doesn't seem to affect many institutions in India, including sport, as much as some would think. There is still plenty of meritocracy going around.

Makes sense, if your best players are from minorities, they are still winning games for their country. To sideline them would be cutting your nose off to spite your face. For thsi reason I don't really believe there is discrimination in Pakistan either, at least not at national level. The game is just run really badly, there is no decent domestic scene where players at lower levels can make their names. A lot depends on who you know rather than meritocracy at that level.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Kashmiris seem to be underrepresented as well. Quite surprising as the British Pakistanis of Kashmir origin are all very keen followers of the game. There doesn't seem to be a PSL team from that region either.

It is more a case of cricketers primarily coming from developed regions of Pakistan instead of discrimination against people from a certain part of the country.

Even people like Shaheen, Naseem, Junaid who belong to underdeveloped regions moved to bigger cities to really hone their trade.

Other than that, most other cricketers you can think of will be from the typical Sialkot, Lahore, Peshawar, Karachi and Rawalpindi. To a lower extent, you will see cricketers from Hyderabad and Muzaffarabad which are still relatively still more developed than other cities in the region.

 

[Statpadder Inc]

It is more a case of cricketers primarily coming from developed regions of Pakistan instead of discrimination against people from a certain part of the country.

Even people like Shaheen, Naseem, Junaid who belong to underdeveloped regions moved to bigger cities to really hone their trade.

Other than that, most other cricketers you can think of will be from the typical Sialkot, Lahore, Peshawar, Karachi and Rawalpindi. To a lower extent, you will see cricketers from Hyderabad and Muzaffarabad which are still relatively still more developed than other cities in the region.

Why do so many players come from kpk compares to interior sindh, is sindh less developed than kpk

 

[ExpressPacer]

Why do so many players come from kpk compares to interior sindh, is sindh less developed than kpk

As I mentioned above, the vast majority of KPK players that represent Pakistan move to more developed cities to play club cricket.

Having said that, I have travelled through a lot of Sindh and KPK, and I can comfortably say that a lot of KPK is more developed than interior Sindh. Interior Sindh is like going to a time capsule that takes you back 200 years.

This is a real travesty because Sindh hasn’t had to endure terrorism, refugees from Afghanistan and natural disasters the way KPK has. However, Sindh has had to endure 75 years of PPP rule and hundreds of years of their Saieen and Feudal system which has deliberately prevented the province from developing.

It is a real travesty and going to Sindh really breaks your heart.

 

[Statpadder Inc]

As I mentioned above, the vast majority of KPK players that represent Pakistan move to more developed cities to play club cricket.

Having said that, I have travelled through a lot of Sindh and KPK, and I can comfortably say that a lot of KPK is more developed than interior Sindh. Interior Sindh is like going to a time capsule that takes you back 200 years.

This is a real travesty because Sindh hasn’t had to endure terrorism, refugees from Afghanistan and natural disasters the way KPK has. However, Sindh has had to endure 75 years of PPP rule and hundreds of years of their Saieen and Feudal system which has deliberately prevented the province from developing.

It is a real travesty and going to Sindh really breaks your heart.

Damn, that's interesting and sad at the same time. But why don't sindhi players move to karachi, all the karachi players such as miandad are muhajirs if I recollect

 

[ExpressPacer]

Damn, that's interesting and sad at the same time. But why don't sindhi players move to karachi, all the karachi players such as miandad are muhajirs if I recollect

There’s a few different reasons. There isn’t really an accurate census in Pakistan, particularly in Karachi, which is highly contested. Muhajirs in Karachi claim to outnumber Sindhis, which if true, makes it only natural that the vast majority of players from Karachi are muhajirs.

Having said that, Karachi is truly the only metropolitan city in Pakistan and a real melting pot of hundreds of different cultures. For instance, Younis Khan and Shahid Afridi, ethnic Pashtuns, were based in Karachi and played their cricket there. So, it isn’t only muhajirs that represent Pakistan from Karachi.

There are also the likes of Sharjeel Khan and Hasnain who are from Hyderabad, another city in Sindh. However, I’m not sure if they’re ethnic Sindhis. The only ethnic Sindhi player I can think of is Dahani who really comes from Sindh.

As for why more don’t move to Karachi or other cities - well, this is really complicated problem. Essentially, for political reasons, it is in the interests of the feudals to keep the area as underdeveloped as possible such that people rarely even get to the cricketing ability of making the move to Karachi.

Dahani is an example who has come out of Sindh and we will likely see more of this as the province develops on its own no thanks to the PPP.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Just strikes me that caste or religion have no bearing on sporting ability anyway, I said this with regard to the original question, and it obviously holds the same now comparisons are being made to Indian team. Unless it was important, why would you even distinguish along those lines? It's not something to use as a bragging right re secularity.

I find it ironic how Indians look down on Muslims as “converted Hindus”. LOL every Muslims ancestors on this planet converted from some religion or practice to Islam. I never really understand the logic.

 

[shaz619]

Neolithic religion during the Indus Civilisation was not exactly similar to modern day Hinduism though was it, I don’t think they had a short ugly dude wear a coat that was bigger than him back then, who would then incite hatred towards the minority population. It is difficult to even point score on this one because people of that world were far more pure, and while the practice of such faith is threatened due to modernity, Pakistan have tried to protect the history of tribes like the Kalash. There is more to be proud of you melts.​

 

[Stewie]

To be clear, you want Pakistan to properly follow all the laws of Islamic Jurisprudence, not just a partial implementation ?

Also .. a committe of elders selecting a leader is not a 'form of democracy', what a strange thing to say .. it is exactly how Xi Jingping became China's defacto king.

It’s not about what I want or don’t want.
My post was purely educational, giving you facts, not personal opinion.

In ca 600-800 SA, you expected a modern process of voting and elections? What a strange thing to say, making comparisons with modern day China! lol. What was the rest of the world doing in that era in particular the princely Indian states? Were they the bastion of democracy?

By the way I find it interesting that this is the part you had to pick from like three pages of my post addressing your original comments about the rights of minorities in Islam. Perhaps try and stick to that topic and maybe we can discuss the mode and governance prescribed in Islam. I am here to educate you, not defend Islam. Islam does not need any defense from uneducated barbs.
If you want to have an educated philosophical discussion, perhaps create a separate thread. We have derailed this one enough.

 

[Stewie]

This is a brilliant post.

@Rajdeep you raise a valid point but objectively speaking, Sindhis in general are severely underrepresented in Pakistan cricket. Therefore, it is natural that Hindus, who are largely based in Sindh, are also underrepresented. The only truly Sindhi cricketer I can think of is Dahani.

Therefore, Hindus are not underrepresented necessarily because they are Hindu. Rather, the whole province, excluding Karachi, is underrepresented.

This view has been stated by many people in this thread including me. Indian Hindus tend to ignore it

 

[Red-Indian]

This view has been stated by many people in this thread including me. Indian Hindus tend to ignore it

I don't think we necessarily ignore it as much as it doesn't seem the complete explanation.

Yes there are always communities that are underrepresented in a particular sport due to interest, underdevelopment etc. For example, in my memory not a single player from the North East of India has represented India at cricket but I can theorise it's not a case of discrimination because I see plenty of representation from there in other sports like football, boxing, weightlifting, It's just lack of interest/opportunity in cricket.

Now maybe you're right and it's a concatenation of cultural and economic circumstances that are keeping Pakistani minorities out of the national sport and sport in general and there's no actual discrimination. However, should we not first rule out the obvious explanation of discrimination for such a gap? Are there examples of areas where they are overrepresented as compared to their proportion of the population?

I can't speak for others who may be trolling but to me the reason I'm persisting on this point is that it feels like posters here like to brush the possibility of discrimination under the carpet by searching for other ancillary reasons.

 

[ExpressPacer]

I don't think we necessarily ignore it as much as it doesn't seem the complete explanation.

Yes there are always communities that are underrepresented in a particular sport due to interest, underdevelopment etc. For example, in my memory not a single player from the North East of India has represented India at cricket but I can theorise it's not a case of discrimination because I see plenty of representation from there in other sports like football, boxing, weightlifting, It's just lack of interest/opportunity in cricket.

Now maybe you're right and it's a concatenation of cultural and economic circumstances that are keeping Pakistani minorities out of the national sport and sport in general and there's no actual discrimination. However, should we not first rule out the obvious explanation of discrimination for such a gap? Are there examples of areas where they are overrepresented as compared to their proportion of the population?

I can't speak for others who may be trolling but to me the reason I'm persisting on this point is that it feels like posters here like to brush the possibility of discrimination under the carpet by searching for other ancillary reasons.

Sindhi Hindus are not overrepresented or underrepresented in any notable field that I can think of. Their numbers across industries follows the same trend as that of Sindhi Muslims. It is a case of Sindhis in general.

 

[Stewie]

I don't think we necessarily ignore it as much as it doesn't seem the complete explanation.

Yes there are always communities that are underrepresented in a particular sport due to interest, underdevelopment etc. For example, in my memory not a single player from the North East of India has represented India at cricket but I can theorise it's not a case of discrimination because I see plenty of representation from there in other sports like football, boxing, weightlifting, It's just lack of interest/opportunity in cricket.

Now maybe you're right and it's a concatenation of cultural and economic circumstances that are keeping Pakistani minorities out of the national sport and sport in general and there's no actual discrimination. However, should we not first rule out the obvious explanation of discrimination for such a gap? Are there examples of areas where they are overrepresented as compared to their proportion of the population?

I can't speak for others who may be trolling but to me the reason I'm persisting on this point is that it feels like posters here like to brush the possibility of discrimination under the carpet by searching for other ancillary reasons.

There is discriminaion everywhere. IF we think discrimination in any form or fashion does not occcur in third world countries or that region, we are obviously wrong. There is discrimination based on language, sect, color, political affiliation, and religion. It does not affect just hindus or christians.

If you are not a sunni punjabi, you are a minority in the country. but then each province has it own dynamic as well. Perhaps we are looking too deep into this issue. You guys can believe what you want because no form of argument here will change your view that somehow Pakistan and Pakistanis love to stick their blades into religious minorities and spend their entire weekends sharpening those blades. lol

I guess it is what it is.

 

[Stewie]

Sindhi Hindus are not overrepresented or underrepresented in any notable field that I can think of. Their numbers across industries follows the same trend as that of Sindhi Muslims. It is a case of Sindhis in general.

I think this is another damning indictment of PPP as a political party that has its strangle hold on the people of Sindh for ages. SIndh is like their own personal property and play ground. The province has seen very little development and from what I can tell the over all quality of living of Sindhis has gone back decades. There are no notable achievements from them and their waderas and looteras are the only major product one can think of from over the last 40-50 years.

Things are so bad there that Dahani was turned into a major role model for the country because he was the only Sindhi who made it big in cricket and that too in IPL without playing any first class games. Its a sorry state of affairs.

 

[Rajdeep]

People are coming up with various excuses to justify this bias is hilarious to see.

No one is yet to answer why the hindu population which was 24% in 1947 is now only 2.1%? What happened?

No one is able to answer why hindus are only restricted to poor Sindh region? Why your successive govts has not done anything to uplift them?

Pakistan don't want any minority cricketer in national side. The one or two that gets in either gets converted like MoYo or faces discrimination like Kaneria. People can twist it in anyway they want but reality is for all to see. Imagine India starts having same approach for its muslim cricketers, people here will run riot.

Be honest to yourself guys...be like Rajdeep and learn to call spade a spade. Thanks

 

[YousafTheBeast]

No one is yet to answer why the hindu population which was 24% in 1947 is now only 2.1%? What happened?

What was the population of Hindus in Pakistan after Bangladesh got it’s independence?

If Pakistan had 200 million Hindus and Sikhs then you’d probably see more representation. There’s no ban on minorities, if there is then give us your evidence.

 

[Stewie]

People are coming up with various excuses to justify this bias is hilarious to see.

No one is yet to answer why the hindu population which was 24% in 1947 is now only 2.1%? What happened?

No one is able to answer why hindus are only restricted to poor Sindh region? Why your successive govts has not done anything to uplift them?

Pakistan don't want any minority cricketer in national side. The one or two that gets in either gets converted like MoYo or faces discrimination like Kaneria. People can twist it in anyway they want but reality is for all to see. Imagine India starts having same approach for its muslim cricketers, people here will run riot.

Be honest to yourself guys...be like Rajdeep and learn to call spade a spade. Thanks

Another favorite witchunt for Indian Hindus. The logical and stastistical fallacy of this argument has been proven and debunked a number of times on various threads on this board but it seems they just want to keep repeating this garbage. LOL

 

[Rajdeep]

What was the population of Hindus in Pakistan after Bangladesh got it’s independence?

If Pakistan had 200 million Hindus and Sikhs then you’d probably see more representation. There’s no ban on minorities, if there is then give us your evidence.

You tell me what is the population of hindus in Pakistan after BD formed? The population of hindus in Pakistan at 1947 was 24% which stands at 2.1% now. Are you saying me most fled to BD after the partition? If yes, why?

Ofcourse there is no official ban bcoz if PCB takes any such step ICC will ban them. However, 2 hindu cricketers for a team with 70+ years of cricket history is an unofficial apartheid in my view. I know I am asking uncomfortable questions but one day truth has to come out.

 

[Stewie]

You tell me what is the population of hindus in Pakistan after BD formed? The population of hindus in Pakistan at 1947 was 24% which stands at 2.1% now. Are you saying me most fled to BD after the partition? If yes, why?

Ofcourse there is no official ban bcoz if PCB takes any such step ICC will ban them. However, 2 hindu cricketers for a team with 70+ years of cricket history is an unofficial apartheid in my view. I know I am asking uncomfortable questions but one day truth has to come out.

Maybe Sindhis and Balochis should do it. Maybe in India people from Nagaland and Assam are also living in unofficial apartheid.

Maybe PP should be an apartheid board for HINDU trolls.

 

[ExpressPacer]

You tell me what is the population of hindus in Pakistan after BD formed? The population of hindus in Pakistan at 1947 was 24% which stands at 2.1% now. Are you saying me most fled to BD after the partition? If yes, why?

Ofcourse there is no official ban bcoz if PCB takes any such step ICC will ban them. However, 2 hindu cricketers for a team with 70+ years of cricket history is an unofficial apartheid in my view. I know I am asking uncomfortable questions but one day truth has to come out.

Hindus were primarily based in interior Sindh and East Pakistan. After East Pakistan became Bangladesh, naturally the population of Hindus in Pakistan went down. The numbers of Hindus in West Pakistan has actually increased.

 

[Rajdeep]

Hindus were primarily based in interior Sindh and East Pakistan. After East Pakistan became Bangladesh, naturally the population of Hindus in Pakistan went down. The numbers of Hindus in West Pakistan has actually increased.

Still doesn't justify only 2 hindu cricketer in 70+ years.

Also, it is not only about hindu, why not many Sikh or Christian cricketer? I see there are muslim players in every county team here in England...why can't Pakistan shows the same level of tolerance? Unless ofcourse you are saying all minority players are rubbish who can't hold a bat or ball...then that is a different debate all together.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Still doesn't justify only 2 hindu cricketer in 70+ years.

Also, it is not only about hindu, why not many Sikh or Christian cricketer? I see there are muslim players in every county team here in England...why can't Pakistan shows the same level of tolerance? Unless ofcourse you are saying all minority players are rubbish who can't hold a bat or ball...then that is a different debate all together.

Man, it is really a travesty that you are not reading my posts. I will not continue to engage with you until you actually read my posts above because I have really tried to politely and thoroughly explain this to you.

I don’t know if you are doing this to troll or are actually interested in the subject. If you are genuinely concerned, please read my above posts and then tell me what your concern is.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

People are coming up with various excuses to justify this bias is hilarious to see.

No one is yet to answer why the hindu population which was 24% in 1947 is now only 2.1%? What happened?

No one is able to answer why hindus are only restricted to poor Sindh region? Why your successive govts has not done anything to uplift them?

Pakistan don't want any minority cricketer in national side. The one or two that gets in either gets converted like MoYo or faces discrimination like Kaneria. People can twist it in anyway they want but reality is for all to see. Imagine India starts having same approach for its muslim cricketers, people here will run riot.

Be honest to yourself guys...be like Rajdeep and learn to call spade a spade. Thanks

Maybe you are posting in the wrong thread and should find one about what happened to the Hindu population in Pakistan after partition. This is a comment which is generally thrown around in various threads so it obviously isn't about cricket.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

You tell me what is the population of hindus in Pakistan after BD formed? The population of hindus in Pakistan at 1947 was 24% which stands at 2.1% now. Are you saying me most fled to BD after the partition? If yes, why?

Ofcourse there is no official ban bcoz if PCB takes any such step ICC will ban them. However, 2 hindu cricketers for a team with 70+ years of cricket history is an unofficial apartheid in my view. I know I am asking uncomfortable questions but one day truth has to come out.

You’re the one coming with all the statistics lmao, funny how you’ve got numbers for 1947, but nothing from 1971.

If you don’t agree that numbers would’ve dropped after the war in Bangladesh then are insinuating that the Pakistan state has been killing all the Hindus silently?

 

[Statpadder Inc]

Looks like hindus aren't discriminated against in pak cricket but it's a sindhi thing. What about Christians and sikhs though

 

[Rajdeep]

Man, it is really a travesty that you are not reading my posts. I will not continue to engage with you until you actually read my posts above because I have really tried to politely and thoroughly explain this to you.

I don’t know if you are doing this to troll or are actually interested in the subject. If you are genuinely concerned, please read my above posts and then tell me what your concern is.

Brother, I have skimmed through your posts and your justification being players from sindh in general are less represented. So not only hindus but muslims from sindh region are also less. Most Pak players are picked from bigger cities.

However I have following question:

1. Why even after so many years of independence hindus are stuck in Sindh region? As per your own admission it is a backward region, what is your govt doing to uplift them?

2. Why are hindu's from Sindh not moving to bigger cities like Shaheen Afridi etc did to take a lucrative career in cricket?

3. Why are there so less Christian and Sikh players representation?

4. In the first few posts of this thread people were saying minority players are not good enough and hence they don't get selected. Were they lying?

Put yourself in my shoe bro. If only 2 muslim cricketer had represented India in our cricket history, will you not call it a discrimination? Ofcourse you would.

So as an outsider when I see only 2 hindu players ever to play for Pakistan, out of which 1 has officially complained of discrimimation, not sure how you expect me to think otherwise and buy your theories.

 

[Stewie]

Man, it is really a travesty that you are not reading my posts. I will not continue to engage with you until you actually read my posts above because I have really tried to politely and thoroughly explain this to you.

I don’t know if you are doing this to troll or are actually interested in the subject. If you are genuinely concerned, please read my above posts and then tell me what your concern is.

I am leaning more towards the former at this point.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Brother, I have skimmed through your posts and your justification being players from sindh in general are less represented. So not only hindus but muslims from sindh region are also less. Most Pak players are picked from bigger cities.

However I have following question:

1. Why even after so many years of independence hindus are stuck in Sindh region? As per your own admission it is a backward region, what is your govt doing to uplift them?

2. Why are hindu's from Sindh not moving to bigger cities like Shaheen Afridi etc did to take a lucrative career in cricket?

3. Why are there so less Christian and Sikh players representation?

4. In the first few posts of this thread people were saying minority players are not good enough and hence they don't get selected. Were they lying?

Put yourself in my shoe bro. If only 2 muslim cricketer had represented India in our cricket history, will you not call it a discrimination? Ofcourse you would.

So as an outsider when I see only 2 hindu players ever to play for Pakistan, out of which 1 has officially complained of discrimimation, not sure how you expect me to think otherwise and buy your theories.

Thanks for skimming through my posts. If you had actually read them, you would see that most of your questions would be answered. However, I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are not trolling and explain again.

1. Sindhis are stuck in Sindh. Not just Sindhi Hindus but Sindhi Muslims, atheists and every other Sindhi in general. Obviously, it is only natural that Sindhis would remain in Sindh.

As for why the government isn’t going anything to uplift the province, the PPP has ruled Sindh for the last 75 years and the party is made up of Sindhi feudal lords including Hindu feudal lords. It is in their interests to keep the region backwards so they remain in power. Once the people become strong, the power of these feudal lords decreases. These feudal lords, including Hindu ones, make it difficult for people to leave as they entrap them using bonded slavery and other legal means of what is essentially slavery.

2. I believe the above paragraphs answer this question too. There is feudal culture in Sindh but much less in KPK.

3. Hindus are primarily concentrated in Sindh. Sindhis are in general underrepresented in cricket so naturally, Hindus and Muslims are both underrepresented.

4. I can’t speak for others. I know many Hindus personally who are representing Pakistan at the highest echelons of society. An example is multimillionaire designer Deepak Perwani who came from nothing. So, it isn’t that they are less talented but Sindhis don’t have access to the same facilities as those in other parts of the country. And the only persons to blame for this are Sindhi politicians who have such a strong hold over the province and its politics.

I can see why you would think there is mass discrimination. I hope this clarifies your concerns.

P.S. I don’t want to undermine the plight of Pakistani Hindus. I am sure their lives are far from perfect but there is not a concerted effort en masse to prevent Hindu cricketers from playing cricket in Pakistan.

 

[Stewie]

Looks like hindus aren't discriminated against in pak cricket but it's a sindhi thing. What about Christians and sikhs though

I think you are wrong. Let us stop using absolute references in subjective debates. I am sure there is a level of discrimination going on against minorities. Whether that is the only reason or the biggest reason is the question.

When I was in college in Lahore, I saw a lot of christian professors there. They were well represented in the academia. I knew a few lawyers and judges in Lahore too who were Christians.

The Christian situation in Pakistan is different from Hindus. Theirs is more a remnant from the HIndu caste system we sort of inherited in PAkistan, because most of the Christians were originally lower caste hindus and are in the custodial/janitorial professions unless they educated themselves and moved up to academics and other professions. They are referred to as chooras in a derogatory way. Whether any of that discrimination has largely affected their lack of involvement in cricket, I do not know. I know Youhana came up the ranks without any backing or support and he was one of those Christians whose fmaily was not well connected at all. So I cannot definitively answer that question.

Sikhs are primarily focused around the Nankana Sahib area in Punjab. I see them in law enforcement and even army quite a bit. Once again, I do not know why they are not in cricket. This article may help a bit but does not provide the whole answer. As previously stated, I am sure there is some level of discrimination with their community as well.

Assimilation of Sikh community in Pakistan

Sikhs living in the Khyber Pakhtun Khawa and some areas of Punjab started becoming active individuals of Pakistani society in 1980s after a long hibernation.

www.sikhnet.com

 

[ExpressPacer]

I think you are wrong. Let us stop using absolute references in subjective debates. I am sure there is a level of discrimination going on against minorities. Whether that is the only reason or the biggest reason is the question.

When I was in college in Lahore, I saw a lot of christian professors there. They were well represented in the academia. I knew a few lawyers and judges in Lahore too who were Christians.

The Christian situation in Pakistan is different from Hindus. Theirs is more a remnant from the HIndu caste system we sort of inherited in PAkistan, because most of the Christians were originally lower caste hindus and are in the custodial/janitorial professions unless they educated themselves and moved up to academics and other professions. They are referred to as chooras in a derogatory way. Whether any of that discrimination has largely affected their lack of involvement in cricket, I do not know. I know Youhana came up the ranks without any backing or support and he was one of those Christians whose fmaily was not well connected at all. So I cannot definitively answer that question.

Sikhs are primarily focused around the Nankana Sahib area in Punjab. I see them in law enforcement and even army quite a bit. Once again, I do not know why they are not in cricket. This article may help a bit but does not provide the whole answer. As previously stated, I am sure there is some level of discrimination with their community as well.

Assimilation of Sikh community in Pakistan

Sikhs living in the Khyber Pakhtun Khawa and some areas of Punjab started becoming active individuals of Pakistani society in 1980s after a long hibernation.

www.sikhnet.com

Agreed. Rama Bhagwandas became the CJ of the Supreme Court of Pakistan and has a main road named after him in Lahore from memory. Similar for Justice Cornelius.

If @Rajdeep follows Pakistani politics, you would realise that the SC in Pakistan is more powerful than the PM and the President, second only to the COAS.

 

[Stewie]

Agreed. Rama Bhagwandas became the CJ of the Supreme Court of Pakistan and has a main road named after him in Lahore from memory. Similar for Justice Cornelius.

If @Rajdeep follows Pakistani politics, you would realise that the SC in Pakistan is more powerful than the PM and the President, second only to the COAS.

Expect him to come back against furiously asking why the percentage of Hindus in Pakistan has gone from 54% to 0.000001% since 1947.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Expect him to come back against furiously asking why the percentage of Hindus in Pakistan has gone from 54% to 0.000001% since 1947.

Ironically, population of Hindus has actually increased not just by number but also by percentage in Pakistan every time there was a census since after Bangladesh.

 

[Stewie]

Ironically, population of Hindus has actually increased not just by number but also by percentage in Pakistan every time there was a census since after Bangladesh.

Does that include the massive numbers who ran off to India? It will be interesting to see if the new laws of India will result in them moving to India or not.

 

[Hextro]

People are coming up with various excuses to justify this bias is hilarious to see.

I wouldn't characterize what some posters are doing as "justifying"; it's more like educating those who don't know the details or facts.

No one is yet to answer why the hindu population which was 24% in 1947 is now only 2.1%? What happened?

Twice in this sentence, you're mistaken. According to the final census before partition, 14.58% of Pakistan's population was Hindu, meaning your estimates (or lies) are off by around 10 percentage points, misidentifying a couple of million people.

Setting aside your errors, let's address your question. It wasn't necessary to ask it here; a simple glance at Wikipedia would have sufficed.

"After the independence of Pakistan in 1947, over 4.7 million Hindus and Sikhs from West Pakistan left for India, and 6.5 million Muslims chose to migrate to Pakistan."

The population decline was a consequence of the migrations that took place during the partition. I presume you were already aware of this.

No one is able to answer why hindus are only restricted to poor Sindh region?

Let's not feign ignorance here. Hindus have resided in Sindh for generations, deeply rooted in their homes and communities. Are you suggesting forcibly displacing them from their ancestral lands and relocating them to other provinces?

The question itself implies a lack of understanding about this issue.

Why your successive govts has not done anything to uplift them?

Your question betrays a lack of understanding of Pakistan's domestic politics, which is understandable since you're not Pakistani but seem eager to offer opinions on the matter. Essentially, you're asking why Sindh remains impoverished.

Sindh's poverty is largely attributed to the rule of the PPP, which has persisted due to consistent support from the local populace. Take Umerkot, the sole Hindu-majority district in Pakistan, where the PPP has held sway for decades, almost as a tradition. Attempting to sway them otherwise can lead to backlash. Moreover, the notion of "Sindhi nationalism" plays a significant role, involving both Muslim and Hindu Sindhis, though it warrants a deeper discussion(with someone else, preferably).

Since you're evidently concerned about the welfare of Sindhi Hindus, why not relocate to Umerkot or another Hindu-populated region in Sindh? You could then advocate against voting for the PPP. I would appreciate your efforts. Thanks in advance.

Pakistan don't want any minority cricketer in national side. The one or two that gets in either gets converted like MoYo or faces discrimination like Kaneria.

People on this thread have written lists of minority players. Saying "one or two" is an obvious lie. But I'll address the two you've pinpointed.

1.) Yousuf's religious choices are his prerogative. His conversion (or reversion, in Islamic terms) doesn't negate the fact that he captained Pakistan while being a Christian. He has publicly affirmed numerous times that the conversion was his personal decision. Yet, some individuals with ulterior motives insinuate otherwise.

2.) Kaneria's credibility is questionable. While it's plausible that he encountered discrimination, he appears to embellish his experiences for sensationalism, particularly on platforms frequented by a predominantly right-wing Indian audience, likely to garner attention and financial gain.

This tweet epitomizes the pattern I'm highlighting.



This dude screenshotted an image displaying the 'best bowling average by Pakistani bowlers in Australia' and falsely claimed discrimination due to his exclusion from the list. However, Danish's assertion of discrimination is unfounded since his bowling average in Australia exceeds 40, while the bowler with the highest average on the list stands at 35. Therefore, Danish's inclusion in the list is simply not feasible based on performance metrics. Despite this, his fabricated claim garnered significant attention, amassing 1.7 million views and 34K likes. Given such circumstances, it's understandable why he might resort to grifting and deception, considering the sizable market for victimhood narratives.

Moreover, Danish's credibility is further undermined by his past actions. He tarnished his career by engaging in match-fixing and involving a youngster in these illicit activities, resulting in bans for himself and the young player. Such actions have irreversibly tainted his reputation, akin to Salman Butt's situation.

Oh, and he claims the PCB is discriminating against him by not lifting his ban, ignoring that it was the ECB who banned him, not the PCB, and it is up to the ECB to unban him.

Be honest to yourself guys...be like Rajdeep and learn to call spade a spade. Thanks

Be like Rajdeep and master the art of distorting straightforward facts. Let's be real, you walked right into this one.

Minorities in Pakistan, much like in the rest of South Asia, face discrimination, but it's unlikely that competent players are denied spots on sports teams solely because of their religious affiliations. However, there is a noticeable underrepresentation of Sindhis in Pakistani sports, and since most Hindus reside in Sindh, this exacerbates their limited opportunities, particularly with the influence of the PPP.

It's akin to questioning why there are no South Asian players in the Premier League, even though South Asians constitute over 5% of the UK's population. While discrimination likely plays a role, solely attributing the lack of representation to discrimination would be an oversimplification.

Man, it is really a travesty that you are not reading my posts. I will not continue to engage with you until you actually read my posts above because I have really tried to politely and thoroughly explain this to you.

I don’t know if you are doing this to troll or are actually interested in the subject. If you are genuinely concerned, please read my above posts and then tell me what your concern is.

That's his signature move. If a post appears rational and coherent, you can bet it's not from Rajdeep or that Josh guy.

 

[ExpressPacer]

I wouldn't characterize what some posters are doing as "justifying"; it's more like educating those who don't know the details or facts.



Twice in this sentence, you're mistaken. According to the final census before partition, 14.58% of Pakistan's population was Hindu, meaning your estimates (or lies) are off by around 10 percentage points, misidentifying a couple of million people.

Setting aside your errors, let's address your question. It wasn't necessary to ask it here; a simple glance at Wikipedia would have sufficed.

"After the independence of Pakistan in 1947, over 4.7 million Hindus and Sikhs from West Pakistan left for India, and 6.5 million Muslims chose to migrate to Pakistan."

The population decline was a consequence of the migrations that took place during the partition. I presume you were already aware of this.



Let's not feign ignorance here. Hindus have resided in Sindh for generations, deeply rooted in their homes and communities. Are you suggesting forcibly displacing them from their ancestral lands and relocating them to other provinces?

The question itself implies a lack of understanding about this issue.



Your question betrays a lack of understanding of Pakistan's domestic politics, which is understandable since you're not Pakistani but seem eager to offer opinions on the matter. Essentially, you're asking why Sindh remains impoverished.

Sindh's poverty is largely attributed to the rule of the PPP, which has persisted due to consistent support from the local populace. Take Umerkot, the sole Hindu-majority district in Pakistan, where the PPP has held sway for decades, almost as a tradition. Attempting to sway them otherwise can lead to backlash. Moreover, the notion of "Sindhi nationalism" plays a significant role, involving both Muslim and Hindu Sindhis, though it warrants a deeper discussion(with someone else, preferably).

Since you're evidently concerned about the welfare of Sindhi Hindus, why not relocate to Umerkot or another Hindu-populated region in Sindh? You could then advocate against voting for the PPP. I would appreciate your efforts. Thanks in advance.



People on this thread have written lists of minority players. Saying "one or two" is an obvious lie. But I'll address the two you've pinpointed.

1.) Yousuf's religious choices are his prerogative. His conversion (or reversion, in Islamic terms) doesn't negate the fact that he captained Pakistan while being a Christian. He has publicly affirmed numerous times that the conversion was his personal decision. Yet, some individuals with ulterior motives insinuate otherwise.

2.) Kaneria's credibility is questionable. While it's plausible that he encountered discrimination, he appears to embellish his experiences for sensationalism, particularly on platforms frequented by a predominantly right-wing Indian audience, likely to garner attention and financial gain.

This tweet epitomizes the pattern I'm highlighting.

View attachment 143022

This dude screenshotted an image displaying the 'best bowling average by Pakistani bowlers in Australia' and falsely claimed discrimination due to his exclusion from the list. However, Danish's assertion of discrimination is unfounded since his bowling average in Australia exceeds 40, while the bowler with the highest average on the list stands at 35. Therefore, Danish's inclusion in the list is simply not feasible based on performance metrics. Despite this, his fabricated claim garnered significant attention, amassing 1.7 million views and 34K likes. Given such circumstances, it's understandable why he might resort to grifting and deception, considering the sizable market for victimhood narratives.

Moreover, Danish's credibility is further undermined by his past actions. He tarnished his career by engaging in match-fixing and involving a youngster in these illicit activities, resulting in bans for himself and the young player. Such actions have irreversibly tainted his reputation, akin to Salman Butt's situation.

Oh, and he claims the PCB is discriminating against him by not lifting his ban, ignoring that it was the ECB who banned him, not the PCB, and it is up to the ECB to unban him.



Be like Rajdeep and master the art of distorting straightforward facts. Let's be real, you walked right into this one.

Minorities in Pakistan, much like in the rest of South Asia, face discrimination, but it's unlikely that competent players are denied spots on sports teams solely because of their religious affiliations. However, there is a noticeable underrepresentation of Sindhis in Pakistani sports, and since most Hindus reside in Sindh, this exacerbates their limited opportunities, particularly with the influence of the PPP.

It's akin to questioning why there are no South Asian players in the Premier League, even though South Asians constitute over 5% of the UK's population. While discrimination likely plays a role, solely attributing the lack of representation to discrimination would be an oversimplification.



That's his signature move. If a post appears rational and coherent, you can bet it's not from Rajdeep or that Josh guy.

Beautifully put and my nomination for POTW if that’s still a thing in TP.

Particularly echo the foreign ignorance point. Hindus form a majority in numerous parts of Sindh, particularly in Umarkot which is a big city. Why should they leave their roots? I never want to leave Islamabad, why should others be expected to?

Also, let’s not forget that some of the richest Sindhi families are in fact Hindus.

 

[Rajdeep]

Twice in this sentence, you're mistaken. According to the final census before partition, 14.58% of Pakistan's population was Hindu, meaning your estimates (or lies) are off by around 10 percentage points, misidentifying a couple of million people.

According to NY Times, Hindu population was 20.5 percent during partition which shrunk to 1.6 by 1998.

Let's not feign ignorance here. Hindus have resided in Sindh for generations, deeply rooted in their homes and communities. Are you suggesting forcibly displacing them from their ancestral lands and relocating them to other provinces?

Don't be silly. No one is asking them to leave their ancestral lands and relocate. However, just like Shaheen Afridi etc left their towns and moved to big cities to peruse career in cricket, how come no hindus or Sikhs ventured that?

Kaneria's credibility is questionable. While it's plausible that he encountered discrimination, he appears to embellish his experiences for sensationalism, particularly on platforms frequented by a predominantly right-wing Indian audience, likely to garner attention and financial gain.

Ofcourse you will question his credibility bcoz thats an easy escape route. BTW, Sohaib Akhtar confirmed it too

Danish Kaneria faced discrimination because he was Hindu: Shoaib Akhtar

When I was playing I did not have the courage to speak on these matters but after Shoaib bhai’s comments, I do, says Danish Kaneria

www.thehindu.com

Oh, and he claims the PCB is discriminating against him by not lifting his ban, ignoring that it was the ECB who banned him, not the PCB, and it is up to the ECB to unban him.

Awww nice excuse. However, if PCB can reach out to ICC to reduce the ban of Amir why they couldn't request ECB to let Kaneria play in domestic cricket? I mean I know why but still asking

Interim PCB chief to appeal Amir ban

Najam Sethi says five-year ban spot-fixing ban against ‘talented cricketer’ Mohammad Amir should be reduced.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Hextro]

It's utterly ridiculous how you reduced my detailed post to mere sentences and ignored all the major points I made about the main topic. This tendency makes interactions with you unproductive, as it seems you're unwilling to acknowledge reasoning and facts.

Rajdeep, why the reluctance to call a spade a spade this time? Was the sight of the spade not to your liking?

According to NY Times, Hindu population was 20.5 percent during partition which shrunk to 1.6 by 1998.

View attachment 143024

Ah, the frustration of witnessing consistent errors from a single individual.

It's evident why you'd resort to incessantly fabricating this narrative – bias clouds your judgment, preventing you from acknowledging the truth.

The New York Times is citing an Indian website (unfortunately), "ThePrint," which in turn is quoting the same source as me. The discrepancy lies in their reference to all non-Muslim groups, whereas I specifically mention Hindus.

Extract from ThePrint article, directly referenced by The New York Times (I can confirm this because the excerpt in the NYT article linking to the claim is directly linked to ThePrint article).



They are referring to all non-Muslims, not just Hindus. Whereas, I was referring only to the Hindus.

Next time, please ensure you read and understand the sources you're quoting. But then again, your current state of misunderstanding does provide some entertainment.

Don't be silly. No one is asking them to leave their ancestral lands and relocate. However, just like Shaheen Afridi etc left their towns and moved to big cities to peruse career in cricket, how come no hindus or Sikhs ventured that?

Why don't you ask them why they don't leave their lands? It's likely a cultural issue; otherwise, we'd see more Sindhis in sports. While there may be discrimination, it's also a matter of personal choice, even among Muslim Sindhis.

Shaheen's case is unique; he benefited from the growing sports scene in Northwestern Pakistan, where scouting opportunities are more abundant. Additionally, PTI's influence in those regions has contributed to the rise of sports by making them more mainstream.

Once again, I recommend reviewing my PL analogy.

It's akin to questioning why there are no South Asian players in the Premier League, even though South Asians constitute over 5% of the UK's population. While discrimination likely plays a role, solely attributing the lack of representation to discrimination would be an oversimplification.

Please make an effort to read this time.

Ofcourse you will question his credibility bcoz thats an easy escape route. BTW, Sohaib Akhtar confirmed it too

Danish Kaneria faced discrimination because he was Hindu: Shoaib Akhtar

When I was playing I did not have the courage to speak on these matters but after Shoaib bhai’s comments, I do, says Danish Kaneria

www.thehindu.com

Why are you opposed to reading?

Kaneria's credibility is questionable. While it's plausible that he encountered discrimination, he appears to embellish his experiences for sensationalism.

Do you understand the meaning of "embellish"? It refers to making something more attractive by adding decorative details or features.

I mentioned that it's plausible that he experienced discrimination, maybe even likely, but your reaction is to bring up the claims of another individual with questionable integrity.

I've clearly demonstrated Danish's tendency to fabricate stories when it suits him. Fortunately for him, Shoaib employs similar tactics.

If Danish has something to say, he should come with evidence. I'll back him up if he provides concrete proof for once. I might even overlook his pathetic engagement tactics for a moment.

Awww nice excuse. However, if PCB can reach out to ICC to reduce the ban of Amir why they couldn't request ECB to let Kaneria play in domestic cricket? I mean I know why but still asking

Interim PCB chief to appeal Amir ban

Najam Sethi says five-year ban spot-fixing ban against ‘talented cricketer’ Mohammad Amir should be reduced.

www.aljazeera.com

Excuses? I presented straightforward facts, while you resorted to your typical whataboutism.

Let's be clear. He was 35 years old and not as "talented" as Amir. He didn't plead guilty to his charges, which led the ECB to impose a life ban. The PCB didn't deviate from this due to the first reason.

Any confusion? Well, I shouldn't even ask, as I know there isn't any. But that won't deter you from making more stuff up.

Next time, please make an effort to contribute original content instead of simply copying and pasting articles, especially if you're unable to even do that correctly.

 

[Stewie]

It's utterly ridiculous how you reduced my detailed post to mere sentences and ignored all the major points I made about the main topic. This tendency makes interactions with you unproductive, as it seems you're unwilling to acknowledge reasoning and facts.

Rajdeep, why the reluctance to call a spade a spade this time? Was the sight of the spade not to your liking?




Ah, the frustration of witnessing consistent errors from a single individual.

It's evident why you'd resort to incessantly fabricating this narrative – bias clouds your judgment, preventing you from acknowledging the truth.

The New York Times is citing an Indian website (unfortunately), "ThePrint," which in turn is quoting the same source as me. The discrepancy lies in their reference to all non-Muslim groups, whereas I specifically mention Hindus.

Extract from ThePrint article, directly referenced by The New York Times (I can confirm this because the excerpt in the NYT article linking to the claim is directly linked to ThePrint article).

View attachment 143027

They are referring to all non-Muslims, not just Hindus. Whereas, I was referring only to the Hindus.

Next time, please ensure you read and understand the sources you're quoting. But then again, your current state of misunderstanding does provide some entertainment.



Why don't you ask them why they don't leave their lands? It's likely a cultural issue; otherwise, we'd see more Sindhis in sports. While there may be discrimination, it's also a matter of personal choice, even among Muslim Sindhis.

Shaheen's case is unique; he benefited from the growing sports scene in Northwestern Pakistan, where scouting opportunities are more abundant. Additionally, PTI's influence in those regions has contributed to the rise of sports by making them more mainstream.

Once again, I recommend reviewing my PL analogy.



Please make an effort to read this time.



Why are you opposed to reading?



Do you understand the meaning of "embellish"? It refers to making something more attractive by adding decorative details or features.

I mentioned that it's plausible that he experienced discrimination, maybe even likely, but your reaction is to bring up the claims of another individual with questionable integrity.

I've clearly demonstrated Danish's tendency to fabricate stories when it suits him. Fortunately for him, Shoaib employs similar tactics.

If Danish has something to say, he should come with evidence. I'll back him up if he provides concrete proof for once. I might even overlook his pathetic engagement tactics for a moment.



Excuses? I presented straightforward facts, while you resorted to your typical whataboutism.

Let's be clear. He was 35 years old and not as "talented" as Amir. He didn't plead guilty to his charges, which led the ECB to impose a life ban. The PCB didn't deviate from this due to the first reason.

Any confusion? Well, I shouldn't even ask, as I know there isn't any. But that won't deter you from making more stuff up.

Next time, please make an effort to contribute original content instead of simply copying and pasting articles, especially if you're unable to even do that correctly.

He is just trolling, man. This is what he does all the time. We should be wise to his acts by now. None of the other hindu posters are engaging in this debate anymore. What does that tell you? Dont let him waste your time. Maybe we can grant him PAkistani citizenship and he can come and play for us. If he is half as good a cricketer as he is a troll, he will do well.

 

[guard]

Though there are certain people who will always defend Pakistan no matter what as if it the beacon of democratic values but 2 hindu cricketer for a team like Pakistan with a cricket history of 70+ years sounds pure discrimination. One can twist it in anyway they want but deep down even they know it is religious bias. Hindus were 20.5 percent in 1947 during partition. What is the reason that it is only 2.1 now? It is hilarious that people are sneakily sliding down this percentage figure as if that justifies this blatant bias.

Also, I keep hearing most hindu's are restricted in one of the poorest Sindh region. Why? What is Pak govt doing to uplift them?

Also, I thought there are significant amount of Sikhs in Pakistan. Imran Khan himself did some drama to open the Kartarpur corridor and inviting Sidhu etc as if to show how secular Pakistan is. Why there are no Sikh cricketers in Pakistan either?

Look one can twits it anyway they want to make themselves feel good but the fact is considering Pakistan is an Islamic republic, it has a mindset of muslims first, muslims second, then dogs and then probably minorities. I mean Pakistan constitution says that only muslims can hold a public figure. Though there is no such rule for sports but this biasness is embedded in everyone's mind. People then try to justify this bias with 'no good enough' players in domestic, lower percentage, eating meat etc etc. Danish Kaneria faced similar discrimination in the dressing room against the hand of Afridi which Sohaib Akhtar himself confirmed. Imagine being the only 2nd hindu cricketer in your country's history and even then get discriminated. And when ball is on the other side and similar discrimination happens to them as in the case with Azeem Rafiq in Yorkshire, the same people justifying here will cry foul. Ahmed Sehzad trying to convert Dilshan in the middle of cricket field is a give away what minority cricketers may go through in domestic circuit.

Your hatred Pakistan knows no bounds nor excuses. Pakistanis can see the issues we are facing as a nation yet for you, minority misrepresentation in cricket is the bigger issue?!
Most of the hindu numbers pre 1947 Left for india, hence why the low number is what remains but face it, you are happy with whatever you want to believe, so carry on believing that. If the voting mandate was stolen, what makes your think Anil or Sanjay will get Babars spot

 

[guard]

He is just trolling, man. This is what he does all the time. We should be wise to his acts by now. None of the other hindu posters are engaging in this debate anymore. What does that tell you? Dont let him waste your time. Maybe we can grant him PAkistani citizenship and he can come and play for us. If he is half as good a cricketer as he is a troll, he will do well.

 

[RexRex]

It’s not about what I want or don’t want.
My post was purely educational, giving you facts, not personal opinion.

In ca 600-800 SA, you expected a modern process of voting and elections? What a strange thing to say, making comparisons with modern day China! lol. What was the rest of the world doing in that era in particular the princely Indian states? Were they the bastion of democracy?

By the way I find it interesting that this is the part you had to pick from like three pages of my post addressing your original comments about the rights of minorities in Islam.

You weren't talking about 600-800 AD; you were elaborating about the recommended form of a modern muslim government in your earlier post .. which in you opinion is a committee of elders picking a leader. I said that is what China does.

Also, you stated non-muslims would be treated better if proper islamic jurisprudence was followed by Pakistan. I asked you is that what you want for Pakistan. How is that off topic ?

 

[Markhor]

This tweet epitomizes the pattern I'm highlighting.

View attachment 143022

This dude screenshotted an image displaying the 'best bowling average by Pakistani bowlers in Australia' and falsely claimed discrimination due to his exclusion from the list. However, Danish's assertion of discrimination is unfounded since his bowling average in Australia exceeds 40, while the bowler with the highest average on the list stands at 35. Therefore, Danish's inclusion in the list is simply not feasible based on performance metrics. Despite this, his fabricated claim garnered significant attention, amassing 1.7 million views and 34K likes. Given such circumstances, it's understandable why he might resort to grifting and deception, considering the sizable market for victimhood narratives.

Moreover, Danish's credibility is further undermined by his past actions. He tarnished his career by engaging in match-fixing and involving a youngster in these illicit activities, resulting in bans for himself and the young player. Such actions have irreversibly tainted his reputation, akin to Salman Butt's situation.

Oh, and he claims the PCB is discriminating against him by not lifting his ban, ignoring that it was the ECB who banned him, not the PCB, and it is up to the ECB to unban him.

Fantastic spot ! Danish Kaneria's sin wasn't that he's a Hindu but a convicted cheat who for years denied his crime and never showed any contrition.

It's a shame a tainted and discredited invididual like Kaneria is used as the posterboy for minority discrimination when there are other people from minority communities who genuinely face discrimination which's a real issue in Pakistani society.

 

[Stewie]

You weren't talking about 600-800 AD; you were elaborating about the recommended form of a modern muslim government in your earlier post .. which in you opinion is a committee of elders picking a leader. I said that is what China does.

Also, you stated non-muslims would be treated better if proper islamic jurisprudence was followed by Pakistan. I asked you is that what you want for Pakistan. How is that off topic ?

I was also not talking the mode of governance ONLY in light of this thread, its about the rights of non Muslims and the protections extended to them so perhaps just stick to that topic. If you want to debate the pros and cons of the Sharia law, open a separate discussion. I will be happy to discuss. Please do not cherry pick your criticisms of everything to do with Muslims. I dont think we will get anywhere with that.

Also what I want for Pakistan is inconsequential. This discussion has been derailed by multiple degrees. Let us stay on course.

 

[RexRex]

I was also not talking the mode of governance ONLY in light of this thread, its about the rights of non Muslims and the protections extended to them so perhaps just stick to that topic. If you want to debate the pros and cons of the Sharia law, open a separate discussion. I will be happy to discuss. Please do not cherry pick your criticisms of everything to do with Muslims. I dont think we will get anywhere with that.

Also what I want for Pakistan is inconsequential. This discussion has been derailed by multiple degrees. Let us stay on course.

You refuse to answer a simple question and hide behind the 'stop derailing thread' excuse, because you realise there are unpalatable parts of islamic jurisprudence that you do not want to impose on modern day Pakistan. Just admit it instead of dithering around.

 

[Stewie]

You refuse to answer a simple question and hide behind the 'stop derailing thread' excuse, because you realise there are unpalatable parts of islamic jurisprudence that you do not want to impose on modern day Pakistan. Just admit it instead of dithering around.

Feel free to open a thread, like I said. I have yet to see a single hindu admit they are incorrect about their insinuations on the status of hindu by numbers rights here. Perhaps such an admission is as "unpalatable" to you guys.

A discussion does not happen with a cherry picked agenda. Try again and do better next time.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

there are many who are working in doemstic cricket but doesnt get the lime light.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

it all depends on their talent whether they are good enough to make it to the Pakistan team or not.

 

[Seam Specialist]

People are coming up with various excuses to justify this bias is hilarious to see.

No one is yet to answer why the hindu population which was 24% in 1947 is now only 2.1%? What happened?

No one is able to answer why hindus are only restricted to poor Sindh region? Why your successive govts has not done anything to uplift them?

Pakistan don't want any minority cricketer in national side. The one or two that gets in either gets converted like MoYo or faces discrimination like Kaneria. People can twist it in anyway they want but reality is for all to see. Imagine India starts having same approach for its muslim cricketers, people here will run riot.

Be honest to yourself guys...be like Rajdeep and learn to call spade a spade. Thanks

So I'm just going to tell you straight, you have the wrong statistics! The last census done by the british in British Raj India was in 1941. At that time, the total Hindu population in what is now Pakistan was 14.58% of the total population. Post independence, the first census done by Pakistan was in 1951 and they were were 1.58% of the total population (Do you need me to explain the 1947 partition?).

In 2017, the Hindu population was 2.14% of the total population of Pakistan. Since Independence, Pakistan's Hindu population has seen an exponential increase in population from 550k in 1951 to 4.4M in 2017. All this data below has been summarised well in the below tables that contain data from all of the census done in Pakistan post and pre independence.

Unfortunately, I doubt this will change your mind as these stats and facts don't play to your narrative so you will keep on pandering lies on this forum and probably many other forums online because you don't really need to be right, you just need to be loud.

 

[FearlessRoar]

This is the sad reality. The PCB should support him.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1889750792527032672

 

[Rajdeep]

I have debated on this topic at depth but the only reason Pakistan dont have any non muslim cricketer because there is a state level discriminiation exists against minorities. Usual suspects can come up with whatever excuses but it is a fact. Bangladesh will also not have any hindu cricketer going forward after this regime change. They already dropped Liton Das from CT squad.

Imagine, just imagine if India adopted any such measures of no muslim cricketer. How the posters will react here? How many threads likes of @The Bald Eagle will create? Just bcoz M.Shami couldnt do a sajda, which Shami himself denied, there were 100s of posts criticizing India.

There is a reason apart from muslims themselves, no non muslims around the world fall for their victim card and shed tears for them. People are well aware of their hypocrisy.

 

[sweep_shot]

I have debated on this topic at depth but the only reason Pakistan dont have any non muslim cricketer because there is a state level discriminiation exists against minorities. Usual suspects can come up with whatever excuses but it is a fact. Bangladesh will also not have any hindu cricketer going forward after this regime change. They already dropped Liton Das from CT squad.

Imagine, just imagine if India adopted any such measures of no muslim cricketer. How the posters will react here? How many threads likes of @The Bald Eagle will create? Just bcoz M.Shami couldnt do a sajda, which Shami himself denied, there were 100s of posts criticizing India.

Selections should be based on skills. Not based on someone's background.

You are endorsing a mandatory quota system which is not a good system.

There is a reason apart from muslims themselves, no non muslims around the world fall for their victim card and shed tears for them. People are well aware of their hypocrisy.

Speak for yourself.

 

[Rajdeep]

Selections should be based on skills. Not based on someone's background.

You are endorsing a mandatory quota system which is not a good system.

Pakistan has 60 years of cricket history. Are you saying in these 60 years only 2 hindu cricketers were good enough to feature in national side? Yes ofcourse Pak team is filled with Bradmans.

Go and give this excuse to someone else.

 

[sweep_shot]

So I'm just going to tell you straight, you have the wrong statistics! The last census done by the british in British Raj India was in 1941. At that time, the total Hindu population in what is now Pakistan was 14.58% of the total population. Post independence, the first census done by Pakistan was in 1951 and they were were 1.58% of the total population (Do you need me to explain the 1947 partition?).

In 2017, the Hindu population was 2.14% of the total population of Pakistan. Since Independence, Pakistan's Hindu population has seen an exponential increase in population from 550k in 1951 to 4.4M in 2017. All this data below has been summarised well in the below tables that contain data from all of the census done in Pakistan post and pre independence.

Unfortunately, I doubt this will change your mind as these stats and facts don't play to your narrative so you will keep on pandering lies on this forum and probably many other forums online because you don't really need to be right, you just need to be loud.


View attachment 143235

Very detailed and logical post.

Indians often whine about Hindu population decrease in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

What they don't understand the percentage decreased due to things like partition and breaking of Pakistan (1971). It had nothing to do with any discriminatory system.

Hindus often convert to Islam and Christianity which can of course reduce their percentages. These are generally not forced conversions and are 100% voluntary. Just a few days ago, a well-known Hindu journalist in Bangladesh converted to Islam voluntarily, for example.

Indians need to stop being petty about non-existent issues. They should focus on real growth like China do.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Pakistan has 60 years of cricket history. Are you saying in these 60 years only 2 hindu cricketers were good enough to feature in national side? Yes ofcourse Pak team is filled with Bradmans.

Go and give this excuse to someone else.

It's a good point. Pakistan should increase efforts to bring cricket to minorities and identify talent from marginalized groups.

England for example didn't do much for Asian cricketers but now owe much success to two bearded Asians and have set up talent finders to find more.

A bigger net to scoop up diverse talent is good for everyone.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Actually more I think of the more I think PCB should set up a minority cup to give players from minority background a chance to shine. Assign mentors from ex players and have 3-4 teams play a small league to give encouragement to players from these backgrounds.

 

[Rajdeep]

It's a good point. Pakistan should increase efforts to bring cricket to minorities and identify talent from marginalized groups.

England for example didn't do much for Asian cricketers but now owe much success to two bearded Asians and have set up talent finders to find more.

A bigger net to scoop up diverse talent is good for everyone.

Brother you are a respectable poster but imagine if similar discrimination happens to muslim players in UK? What would be the reason of usual suspects here? Remember Azeem Rafiq case and how people were after Yorkshire board? Same people will not bat an eye lid about the systemic discrimination happening in its own home nation. Such a shame.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

I have debated on this topic at depth but the only reason Pakistan dont have any non muslim cricketer because there is a state level discriminiation exists against minorities. Usual suspects can come up with whatever excuses but it is a fact. Bangladesh will also not have any hindu cricketer going forward after this regime change. They already dropped Liton Das from CT squad.

Imagine, just imagine if India adopted any such measures of no muslim cricketer. How the posters will react here? How many threads likes of @The Bald Eagle will create? Just bcoz M.Shami couldnt do a sajda, which Shami himself denied, there were 100s of posts criticizing India.

There is a reason apart from muslims themselves, no non muslims around the world fall for their victim card and shed tears for them. People are well aware of their hypocrisy.

Stop playing religion card as unlike you guys....I unequivocally condemn any bias in selection on basis of religion in Pakistan