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Why can’t Pakistan produce ATGs anymore?

Because in your mind ATG is someone who is retired or is about to near retirement. And you probably won't consider Babar or Rizwan an ATG because of recency bias.
 
pakistani pride said:
Seriously guys come on. How on earth can player like Babar and Rizwan be considered as ''great'' players? Seriously.
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Babar has 32 international tons. Regardless of your personal dislike for him those were not scored in some park. Rizwan is Paksitan's greatest keeper. They are definitely greats even if their recent decline has been steep.
 
ATGs aren't made in T20 leagues. Across the border, Shreyas Iyer has been on a dream run in the IPL for 2 seasons and yet he is not part of their test, T20 teams and they are not even serious about him in ODIs.

Only test cricket makes ATGs
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
Babar has 32 international tons. Regardless of your personal dislike for him those were not scored in some park. Rizwan is Paksitan's greatest keeper. They are definitely greats even if their recent decline has been steep.
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In what world are they greats? I mean what have they achieved for Pakistan?

Why should I dislike Babar? I am just stating facts. Apart from 2019 ODI WC and T20WC21 what has he done in big ICC events?

For me being a great is either you perform on the big stage (ICC events) or in TEST cricket. Babar has a very below TEST career as well BTW.
 
Shreyas would have been a mainstay for India in the shorter formats had he been fit. His body keeps letting him down
 
I agree that Rizwan is one of the best wicketkeeper-batsmen Pakistan has produced, and he even makes some people’s Pakistan all-time XI. But that doesn’t automatically make him an all-time great. He has only scored three Test centuries, and none of them have come outside home conditions.
 
Rizwan might make the all time Pakistani XI ahead of guys like Moin Khan , Wasim bari and Rashid lattif

But he won't even be in the top 7-8 keeper bats produced in the subcontinent.
 
Babar test avg is less than currently 42 so he is nowhere near test atg level.
Regarding other ATG , too much prima donna culture with both players and management is big hindrance.
Players tend to go easy after media hype and sooner than later let their skill diminish. Pretty much every talented bowler gets hyped as next Wasim , then after little time their fitness suffers and before you can blink they get replaced with next hype.
Batsman tend to get stuck in politics and after some time when their performance suffer , enemies he made gang up and which results in shorter career.
 
What goated players have pak produced like ever, maybe some great cricketers like sobers, richards, lara, sachin, warne, when?, maybe akram in ODIs and Imran Khan in tests because he was one of the most complete allrounder ever and OI think that's it. PK need to change their mentality to this one man show and actually get professional maybe that can help
 
sithb said:
Miandad, Hanif
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Miandad was able to survive tough situations but he wasn't able to score much or dominate them(especially outside sub continent).it was always singles/doubles against them.not sure about hanif .even zaheer abbas was very good .I think most of them are a tier below atg but very good. Present crop is downright minnows too.
 
Vikram1989 said:
Miandad was able to survive tough situations but he wasn't able to score much or dominate them(especially outside sub continent)
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Nope. Miandad is a bonafide ATG. Played really well even in Windies.

And in his peak, he was a dominant batsman. Lot of people look at Miandad from 91 to 96 when he was on the decline. His peak was in the 70s to the entirety of the 90s.
 
sithb said:
Nope. Miandad is a bonafide ATG. Played really well even in Windies.

And in his peak, he was a dominant batsman. Lot of people look at Miandad from 91 to 96 when he was on the decline. His peak was in the 70s to the entirety of the 90s.
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His avg is 33 against wi and 38 against Aussies while playing away.Ambrose wrote about him in his autobiography that mianadad always survives with out any dominantion and no one notices till he gets a half century.in srilanka too, its bizarre 15.
 
Vikram1989 said:
His avg is 33 against wi and 38 against Aussies while playing away.Ambrose wrote about him in his autobiography that mianadad always survives with out any dominantion and no one notices till he gets a half century.in srilanka too, its bizarre 15.
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Played 7 matches against the windies. Out of which he played only one match against them in 1977.

When Pakistan toured Windies next in 1988, He played 3 tests and scored 2 hundreds.

He then had a pretty average last series in 93 when he was well off his peak. The stats might say that he averaged 33 against windies but you've got to look at the context. I can probably look at Sunil Gavaskar's statistics and that might show certain things when taken out of context. Forget his series in Srilanka, anyone is allowed to have one bad series.

He's performed pretty well across all conditions. Performed well in patches in Australia and West Indies too.
 
sithb said:
Played 7 matches against the windies. Out of which he played only one match against them in 1977.

When Pakistan toured Windies next in 1988, He played 3 tests and scored 2 hundreds.

He then had a pretty average last series in 93 when he was well off his peak. The stats might say that he averaged 33 against windies but you've got to look at the context. I can probably look at Sunil Gavaskar's statistics and that might show certain things when taken out of context. Forget his series in Srilanka, anyone is allowed to have one bad series.

He's performed pretty well across all conditions. Performed well in patches in Australia and West Indies too.
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ig he's a great batter of his time, but this is why multi-tours exist, an atg player will score not only in one tour but in a number of tours across diff conditiosn tbf
 
sithb said:
Played 7 matches against the windies. Out of which he played only one match against them in 1977.



He's performed pretty well across all conditions. Performed well in patches in Australia and West Indies too.
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I agree he is very good but not an atg.Atg should have atleast 2 stellar away series against every opponent(especially best).similarly Dravid had a great series against Aussies in 2004 and rest are decent/below average. we can have different opinions.
 
We barely play any tests and for last 3-4 years, barely any ODI cricket too. All the focus is on t20. Adding to that, we have a poor domestic system. PSL has led to making players think they are some next level players even when they are mediocre.
Improve domestic cricket, reduce player power, focus more on ODIs and Tests. Reduce focus on PSL and other leagues and we'll start producing better players and better players will benefit from a better system where they could be nurtured to become better versions of themselves.

Yasir Shah was probably our last best test player.
Umar Gul our last best t20i bowler.
Fakhar has been a fantastic ODI player who for some reason hasn't played more than 3 tests.
We need fierce personalities and hard task masters like Langer and Rixon who can push these players and get them out of their comfort zones. As long as player power remains strong, there won't be much good news.
 
Lack of Test cricket is the reason, ATG are mainly established by performances in Test cricket but PCB seems least interested in Test format.
 
Domestic cricket is in a poor state and overly focused on shorter formats. There is little proper grooming of upcoming players, who are pushed into the spotlight with huge expectations and instant fame. At the same time, there is a lack of connection with county cricket, which could otherwise help players develop and prepare better.
 
aarizzler720 said:
ig he's a great batter of his time, but this is why multi-tours exist, an atg player will score not only in one tour but in a number of tours across diff conditiosn tbf
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Not necessarily. Lara's an ATG. Averages 41 in Australia , 33 in India and 36.9 in Nz. If the same criteria is being used for judging ATG's , Then it has to be used across all the batsmen.
 
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