Why did Gary Kirsten not hold a single white ball camp in Pakistan or spend time at the NCA?

[Savak]

Apparently Kirsten only came for a few days during the Champions Cup and that also because the PCB specially invited him for the connection camp. He did not hold a single white ball camp for the players at the academies or domestic players and he had violated his contract which stated he would be allowed 30 days annual leave.

PCB obviously went begging to him and offered him a lucrative package, selection powers but they then observed that he was not as committed to the role as they had hoped for.

PCB did not let him go without a reason. If he was demanding the selection of Babar, Shaheen, Shadab, Iftikhar even for a series like Zimbabwe then good riddance and kuddos to the PCB for standing up to these high profile foreign coaches who think they can exploit PCB's desperation to hire big names and then walk over them with their demands.

Apparently the reason the PCB has given to Kirsten and Gillespie for taking back their selection powers is that they are not spending enough time in the country looking at the academy players, players in the domestic cricket and if they want a say in selections then they have to earn it but for now the selection decisions will be given to the selectors who are working day in, day out with up to date knowledge of the local players available.

 

[emranabbas]

I don’t understand why people are supporting these foreign coaches who want full control over team selection despite not spending time in Pakistan.

They miss out on watching domestic players in domestic cricket and lack a true understanding of the talent and conditions here.

Selection decisions should be based on firsthand knowledge of players, especially those coming up through the domestic circuit, not based on so and so is a world cup winner coach

 

[Deewana Mastana]

I don’t understand why people are supporting these foreign coaches who want full control over team selection despite not spending time in Pakistan.

They miss out on watching domestic players in domestic cricket and lack a true understanding of the talent and conditions here.

Selection decisions should be based on firsthand knowledge of players, especially those coming up through the domestic circuit, not based on so and so is a world cup winner coach

How many of the actual selectors and those close to the board even go to the grounds to watch these dud FC games with 18 teams and over the mill playing these games.

 

[Nasty Naz]

I don’t understand why people are supporting these foreign coaches who want full control over team selection despite not spending time in Pakistan.

They miss out on watching domestic players in domestic cricket and lack a true understanding of the talent and conditions here.

Selection decisions should be based on firsthand knowledge of players, especially those coming up through the domestic circuit, not based on so and so is a world cup winner coach

I would be shocked if our own players/captains/selectors watched domestic stuff. For one, most aren't broadcast and I highly doubt they have anyone scouting the players in person or anyone keeping track of how a batter does vs left arm pacers, right arm pacers, various types of spinners etc. They all just look at however topped the runs & wickets chart at the end and bring them onto the team.

 

[Rana]

Why is this issue being raised now? The day he resigned??

 

[Rana]

If Gary had not resigned,

I think no one would have noticed this for the next year or so. You were all asleep anyways.

If you are so proactive about the coaches, document their flaws there and then. Not the day when they suddenly resign!

 

[Farabi]

Apparently Kirsten only came for a few days during the Champions Cup and that also because the PCB specially invited him for the connection camp. He did not hold a single white ball camp for the players at the academies or domestic players and he had violated his contract which stated he would be allowed 30 days annual leave.

PCB obviously went begging to him and offered him a lucrative package, selection powers but they then observed that he was not as committed to the role as they had hoped for.

PCB did not let him go without a reason. If he was demanding the selection of Babar, Shaheen, Shadab, Iftikhar even for a series like Zimbabwe then good riddance and kuddos to the PCB for standing up to these high profile foreign coaches who think they can exploit PCB's desperation to hire big names and then walk over them with their demands.

Apparently the reason the PCB has given to Kirsten and Gillespie for taking back their selection powers is that they are not spending enough time in the country looking at the academy players, players in the domestic cricket and if they want a say in selections then they have to earn it but for now the selection decisions will be given to the selectors who are working day in, day out with up to date knowledge of the local players available.

What is your source

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

If Gary had not resigned,

I think no one would have noticed this for the next year or so. You were all asleep anyways.

If you are so proactive about the coaches, document their flaws there and then. Not the day when they suddenly resign!

Good point. The problem wasn't Kirsten resigning. The problem was Kirsten accepting the job to begin with. In the current climate, everyone knows that international coaches who have a certain MO were not gonna gel with this Pakistan outfit and only grind more gears (as he has done now by leaving). Would've been better to go for a safer option who can at least stick around the setup for 1-2 years, offering some stability.

I feel the only reason he was signed on to begin with was to make certain people look more competent than they actually are because "wow, look hum kitna acha coach lekar agaye".

 

[Rana]

Good point. The problem wasn't Kirsten resigning. The problem was Kirsten accepting the job to begin with. In the current climate, everyone knows that international coaches who have a certain MO were not gonna gel with this Pakistan outfit and only grind more gears (as he has done now by leaving). Would've been better to go for a safer option who can at least stick around the setup for 1-2 years, offering some stability.

I feel the only reason he was signed on to begin with was to make certain people look more competent than they actually are because "wow, look hum kitna acha coach lekar agaye".

What I suspect happened is,

Kirsten didn’t have a clue about Pakistan cricket. Don’t think he knew or cared about any of the current players, maybe Shaheen Afridi was someone he thought was decent because Shaheen was the only sellable commodity in the upper tier franchise cricket market. He’s obviously seen Babar, but I doubt he even cared too much about him considering every country has a technically solid player who can anchor.

He was obviously trying to fill up his calendar with work opportunities to maximise his earnings, and he had time in his diary to take on a job for Pakistan cricket whilst realising his days as an international coach for a SENA+India side are most likely over anyways. He took this job on as cash for jam tbh.

Once he joined and saw things first hand, he must have realised that this is like being stranded in the Wild West. An eye opening experience seeing how crap these players are and how huge their egos are in not wanting to improve. On top of that, the disunity amongst them was also evident.


He realised his credibility is seriously on the line here and this isn’t going to be a stroll as he might have thought, so he did start to look deeper into the domestic set up and started identifying a method of going forward. He knew he isn’t going to transform this lot into a world class outfit anytime soon. But he was going to kick start a process to give this side a base to build on in the right way.

Just when it was his time to execute his method….hell breaks loose with Aqib Javed making his entry and winning the unconditional trust of the PCB chairman.

Kirsten had a plan, a way forward. It’s been stopped abruptly.

 

[emranabbas]

How many of the actual selectors and those close to the board even go to the grounds to watch these dud FC games with 18 teams and over the mill playing these games.

I would be shocked if our own players/captains/selectors watched domestic stuff. For one, most aren't broadcast and I highly doubt they have anyone scouting the players in person or anyone keeping track of how a batter does vs left arm pacers, right arm pacers, various types of spinners etc. They all just look at however topped the runs & wickets chart at the end and bring them onto the team.

May not be attending matches but are well aware of domestic setup and players

If you want a foreign coach might aswell bring in foreign players just like USA

I don't know why are you pakistanis are hell bent on trying to fit a ferrari engine a in a corsa vaxhall and trying to make it compete with a lambagini

 

[Farabi]

What I suspect happened is,

Kirsten didn’t have a clue about Pakistan cricket. Don’t think he knew or cared about any of the current players, maybe Shaheen Afridi was someone he thought was decent because Shaheen was the only sellable commodity in the upper tier franchise cricket market. He’s obviously seen Babar, but I doubt he even cared too much about him considering every country has a technically solid player who can anchor.

He was obviously trying to fill up his calendar with work opportunities to maximise his earnings, and he had time in his diary to take on a job for Pakistan cricket whilst realising his days as an international coach for a SENA+India side are most likely over anyways. He took this job on as cash for jam tbh.

Once he joined and saw things first hand, he must have realised that this is like being stranded in the Wild West. An eye opening experience seeing how crap these players are and how huge their egos are in not wanting to improve. On top of that, the disunity amongst them was also evident.


He realised his credibility is seriously on the line here and this isn’t going to be a stroll as he might have thought, so he did start to look deeper into the domestic set up and started identifying a method of going forward. He knew he isn’t going to transform this lot into a world class outfit anytime soon. But he was going to kick start a process to give this side a base to build on in the right way.

Just when it was his time to execute his method….hell breaks loose with Aqib Javed making his entry and winning the unconditional trust of the PCB chairman.

Kirsten had a plan, a way forward. It’s been stopped abruptly.

Any coach worth their salt will resign if they cannot even select their 11. It’s like asking a batter to bat without a bat. And that’s exactly what happened so there is no need for conspiracy theories.

 

[Xoib]

After the English series Aqib set his sights on coach/cricket director role and getting rid of Kirsten a strong no nonsense foreign coach with high pedigree was the first step Gillispie will follow soon

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

How many times will you guys be taken in?

1. Controversy happens

2. One side (in this case PCB) releases a carefully timed leak against the other party.

3. Folk start to ‘discuss it seriously’.

4. Until distracted by the next shiny object dangled before their eyes.

How many times will people let themselves be duped by a hackneyed ploy from the most worn out playbook?

 

[Xoib]

Why would there be a white ball camp in a middle of red ball season

 

[BouncerGuy]

Maybe he was not allowed to or maybe there was not enough time because PCB was busy doing other stuff like arranging champions cup type tournaments and renovating stadiums.

Maybe Kirsten was not happy with the current selection approach.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

I don’t understand why people are supporting these foreign coaches who want full control over team selection despite not spending time in Pakistan.

They miss out on watching domestic players in domestic cricket and lack a true understanding of the talent and conditions here.

Selection decisions should be based on firsthand knowledge of players, especially those coming up through the domestic circuit, not based on so and so is a world cup winner coach

How could Gary Kristen omitted Raza ul Mustafa in place of M.Rizwan???

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

Any coach worth their salt will resign if they cannot even select their 11. It’s like asking a batter to bat without a bat. And that’s exactly what happened so there is no need for conspiracy theories.

It's not necessarily a conspiracy theory as you're both basically saying the same thing. TL;DR in the past few months he realised it was a much bigger mess than he anticipated and the whole Aqib/selection committee/decisions re: pitch preparation situation was the final push which threw him over the edge.

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

Why would there be a white ball camp in a middle of red ball season

Also, what is the Pakistani obsession with "camps"? White-ball camp, red-ball camp, u-19 camp, army fitness camp. You'd think these guys are adventure trainers not cricketers lol.

 

[Mamoon]

I don’t understand why people are supporting these foreign coaches who want full control over team selection despite not spending time in Pakistan.

They miss out on watching domestic players in domestic cricket and lack a true understanding of the talent and conditions here.

Selection decisions should be based on firsthand knowledge of players, especially those coming up through the domestic circuit, not based on so and so is a world cup winner coach

No one said that the coach should also be the chief selector. However, there is huge difference between selecting the squad and selecting the playing XI.

It is totally ridiculous and stupid to take away playing XI selection authority away from the coach and hand it over to the selectors who are not even part of the dressing room.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

You have to feel sorry for the PCB. Over the past 30 years despite their noble efforts and dedication towards Pakistan cricket they have consistently encountered shady coaches/captains who manage to pull the wool over the eyes of our incredibly professional board time and time again.

The fact that these issues seem to consistently happen is no reflection on the board at all.

We should thank them for time and time again sorting out the mess created by these coaches/captains/consultants and always acting in the best interest of Pakistan.

 

[Snowflake]

Apparently Kirsten only came for a few days during the Champions Cup and that also because the PCB specially invited him for the connection camp. He did not hold a single white ball camp for the players at the academies or domestic players and he had violated his contract which stated he would be allowed 30 days annual leave.

PCB obviously went begging to him and offered him a lucrative package, selection powers but they then observed that he was not as committed to the role as they had hoped for.

PCB did not let him go without a reason. If he was demanding the selection of Babar, Shaheen, Shadab, Iftikhar even for a series like Zimbabwe then good riddance and kuddos to the PCB for standing up to these high profile foreign coaches who think they can exploit PCB's desperation to hire big names and then walk over them with their demands.

Apparently the reason the PCB has given to Kirsten and Gillespie for taking back their selection powers is that they are not spending enough time in the country looking at the academy players, players in the domestic cricket and if they want a say in selections then they have to earn it but for now the selection decisions will be given to the selectors who are working day in, day out with up to date knowledge of the local players available.

Source: Random tweet

 

[Major]

I think PCB is lucky here.

They got away with a resignation and didnt had to fire the guy. Would had been a great pay day.

 

[DTrump]

Meh. Pakistan has not played an odi since the World Cup. The World T20 was a disaster but it cannot be put on him.

His job was about to start now. To clean up the mess and build for the future. Australia, Zimbabwe, South Africa and then Champions Trophy. His wings were cut, he refused to take from anyone and has left.

 

[Mamoon]

Is Gary Kirsten really 56? He looked nothing short of 80 during his time with Pakistan. Extremely old and lacking energy and enthusiasm.

 

[sweep_shot]

Is Gary Kirsten really 56? He looked nothing short of 80 during his time with Pakistan. Extremely old and lacking energy and enthusiasm.

Don't think age fudging is a thing among white people. LOL.

Anyway, he should be 56 because he retired from international cricket in 2004.

 

[Rajdeep]

PCB thought hiring Gary Kirsten will help them winning a world cup like he did with India in 2011.

You need players like below and captain like MSD to win a world cup...doesn't matter how many Gary's and Jason's you hire. LOL

 

[Rana]

I think PCB is lucky here.

They got away with a resignation and didnt had to fire the guy. Would had been a great pay day.

PCB is lucky that a world renowned coach resigned 4 months into the job?

 

[Rana]

PCB thought hiring Gary Kirsten will help them winning a world cup like he did with India in 2011.

You need players like below and captain like MSD to win a world cup...doesn't matter how many Gary's and Jason's you hire. LOL

View attachment 147202

But he got his captain apparently

 

[Hawkeye]

The moment we see white skin we start worshipping it - at least when it comes to foreign coaches.

They can do no wrong, they can’t lack motivation and energy to rebuild a team, they can’t be asked to attend domestic tournaments either.

Basically some people here think foreign coaches are untouchable and everyone has to bend their backs to look after them and make sure they have a great vacation on the payroll of the PCB.

Stop devaluing yourself so much. Have some self respect and get rid of this inferiority complex that a white coach cannot be held accountable or be questioned.

A foreign coach is still an employee and on the board’s payroll. He has to do what the employer asks him to do.

If their fragile ego cannot handle sports dynamics that come with such a high profile role, they better resign or be sacked — the employer will find someone better.

If there were disagreements in this case or if the coach was not doing what he was asked, at the end of the day parting ways is a good outcome.

 

[Varun]

Camps are a waste of time.

 

[Asad T]

I would trust Kisten's judgment more than the PCB official's or the Pakistan media's narrative.

Even if he didn't hold a camp or spend much time in Pakistan, I'm guessing it's because the PCB created such a toxic environment for him in Pakistan rather than GK refusing to spend time in the country.

The guy has such a good track record in the subcontinent, so I highly doubt he was lazy. I can't prove it, but I think it's the PCB who pushed him away.

 

[Rana]

“Yeah let’s hold a camp even though I’m going to be forced to play Babar and Rizwan in T20 at all cost”

 

[Dr_Bassim]

These are all rumors.

The real reason Gary left is simple.

The job became "different to the role he was advertised for".

Any professional person who works in any degree of independence knows that once the designation of the job changes its time to quit.

Gary did the right thing.

He might have straggled along and produced results but it wasnt what he signed up for.

Its that simple.

 

[shaz619]

For awareness, the OP posted the following 24 hours earlier:

Sadly it appears the PCB has made its mind to let Kirsten go or to frustrate him to such an extent where he himself chooses to resign. They are most likely going portray that Kirsten was unprofessional i.e. he insistent on his favourite players being selected in the team, in the central contract list or that he violated his contract and refused to spend time in Pakistan.

I wonder what happened during the past day or so

 

[emranabbas]

How could Gary Kristen omitted Raza ul Mustafa in place of M.Rizwan???

nice dig but Gary don't want Rizwan as captain the reason he left.

 

[RidiculousMan]

For awareness, the OP posted the following 24 hours earlier:



I wonder what happened during the past day or so

Clownery happened

 

[Savak]

These Gary Kirsten threads clearly show the desperate brown nosery of Pakistani's in general where they will blindly believe a gora and let them walk over them just because of the skin colour.

It is pretty clear Kirsten was not fully committed to his Pakistani role and thought he could treat it as a part time gig with full powers and authority. PCB took his selection powers after he did not meet his end of the bargain i.e. spend time in Pakistan, checking the players in domestic cricket, academies and the PCB rightfully told him how can you select the players when you haven't put in the time, effort to understand the players and work on them in the circuit. Then Kirsten started throwing demands on wanting his own expensive foreign staff where the contract he signed with the PCB stated that he would help the PCB develop the local coaches and staff.

Plus lets be honest, Kirsten's selections were far from impressive, he was against resting Babar and some other senior players for the tour of Zimbabwe, he apparently wanted Mohd Haris as the captain in the T-20 format.

Very good on the PCB for telling him to take a hike once they figured he is not taking the job seriously.

 

[Bewal Express]

These Gary Kirsten threads clearly show the desperate brown nosery of Pakistani's in general where they will blindly believe a gora and let them walk over them just because of the skin colour.

It is pretty clear Kirsten was not fully committed to his Pakistani role and thought he could treat it as a part time gig with full powers and authority. PCB took his selection powers after he did not meet his end of the bargain i.e. spend time in Pakistan, checking the players in domestic cricket, academies and the PCB rightfully told him how can you select the players when you haven't put in the time, effort to understand the players and work on them in the circuit. Then Kirsten started throwing demands on wanting his own expensive foreign staff where the contract he signed with the PCB stated that he would help the PCB develop the local coaches and staff.

Plus lets be honest, Kirsten's selections were far from impressive, he was against resting Babar and some other senior players for the tour of Zimbabwe, he apparently wanted Mohd Haris as the captain in the T-20 format.

Very good on the PCB for telling him to take a hike once they figured he is not taking the job seriously.

Surely the contract would have taken care of all these issues. I am contracted to around 1265 hours a year, no more or no less. If i don't do those I get penalised and potentially sacked. Why did the Naqvi, the Hulk Hogan of PK not spend a few minutes reading the contract Kirsten signed. Does anyone create a contract they don't read? It's normally the contracted that doesn't read the contract, not the contractors. What kind of imbeciles are running the PCB or is it just a case of not having time( as one poster claimed on the QA trophy being delayed). What is the truth

 

[Hawkeye]

These Gary Kirsten threads clearly show the desperate brown nosery of Pakistani's in general where they will blindly believe a gora and let them walk over them just because of the skin colour.

It is pretty clear Kirsten was not fully committed to his Pakistani role and thought he could treat it as a part time gig with full powers and authority. PCB took his selection powers after he did not meet his end of the bargain i.e. spend time in Pakistan, checking the players in domestic cricket, academies and the PCB rightfully told him how can you select the players when you haven't put in the time, effort to understand the players and work on them in the circuit. Then Kirsten started throwing demands on wanting his own expensive foreign staff where the contract he signed with the PCB stated that he would help the PCB develop the local coaches and staff.

Plus lets be honest, Kirsten's selections were far from impressive, he was against resting Babar and some other senior players for the tour of Zimbabwe, he apparently wanted Mohd Haris as the captain in the T-20 format.

Very good on the PCB for telling him to take a hike once they figured he is not taking the job seriously.

The coach even if he’s a gora has to respect what his employer is asking him to do.

He’s not the boss, the board ie his employer is.

Some of the posters here make it sound as if white skinned coaches are untouchable and unaccountable and they can dictate whatever they want.

 

[Farabi]

It's not necessarily a conspiracy theory as you're both basically saying the same thing. TL;DR in the past few months he realised it was a much bigger mess than he anticipated and the whole Aqib/selection committee/decisions re: pitch preparation situation was the final push which threw him over the edge.

You’re adding this yourself “he thought it was a much bigger mess than he anticipated”. How do you know? It’s just conjecture.

 

[emranabbas]

The coach even if he’s a gora has to respect what his employer is asking him to do.

He’s not the boss, the board ie his employer is.

Some of the posters here make it sound as if white skinned coaches are untouchable and unaccountable and they can dictate whatever they want.

Agreed

A lot of these players don’t even speak English.

so what’s the point of bringing in a gora coach from another country?

If they can’t understand each other. it’s going to be tough for the coach to get his ideas across or build strong connections with the team. This could end up limiting how much he can actually help them improve or win games.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Not right to blame Kirsten here, he hasn't selected any team so far. And left without an ODI being played under his watch

 

[Savak]

Not right to blame Kirsten here, he hasn't selected any team so far. And left without an ODI being played under his watch

He's been signed by the PCB since May 2024 and his contract stipulated he would get 30 days leave during the year. During this time period why has not been seen holding a single camp at the NCA or watching domestic cricket matches? Even if the senior players were engaged, the white ball players were free and there were plenty of domestic players, academy players in the circuit he could have looked at and worked with.

Plus his selections where he was strongly advocating for Harris as T-20 captain, Babar, Shaheen, Shadab to be selected for the Zimbabwe series was far from impressive. The PCB felt they would get value for the money they were paying him and were rightful in pulling the plug when the other side was taking them for a ride.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

He's been signed by the PCB since May 2024 and his contract stipulated he would get 30 days leave during the year. During this time period why has not been seen holding a single camp at the NCA or watching domestic cricket matches? Even if the senior players were engaged, the white ball players were free and there were plenty of domestic players, academy players in the circuit he could have looked at and worked with.

Plus his selections where he was strongly advocating for Harris as T-20 captain, Babar, Shaheen, Shadab to be selected for the Zimbabwe series was far from impressive. The PCB felt they would get value for the money they were paying him and were rightful in pulling the plug when the other side was taking them for a ride.

Yep could be so, but so far it's just reports from random journalists. Not sure what was the actual case. In hindsight it appears that bone of contention was on voting right in Selection committee.

 

[Savak]

Mohsin Naqvi in his brief interactions with reporters confirmed that it was Kirsten who violated his signed contract with the PCB.

 

[Bewal Express]

Mohsin Naqvi in his brief interactions with reporters confirmed that it was Kirsten who violated his signed contract with the PCB.

Do you believe him?

 

[Bewal Express]

The coach even if he’s a gora has to respect what his employer is asking him to do.

He’s not the boss, the board ie his employer is.

Some of the posters here make it sound as if white skinned coaches are untouchable and unaccountable and they can dictate whatever they want.

Who is? I pointed before either Gillespie or Kirsten that whoever is appointed will make no difference. But if you appoint them then surely you have a water tight contract and both sides need to stick to it.

 

[Bewal Express]

He's been signed by the PCB since May 2024 and his contract stipulated he would get 30 days leave during the year. During this time period why has not been seen holding a single camp at the NCA or watching domestic cricket matches? Even if the senior players were engaged, the white ball players were free and there were plenty of domestic players, academy players in the circuit he could have looked at and worked with.

Plus his selections where he was strongly advocating for Harris as T-20 captain, Babar, Shaheen, Shadab to be selected for the Zimbabwe series was far from impressive. The PCB felt they would get value for the money they were paying him and were rightful in pulling the plug when the other side was taking them for a ride.

So you don't trust the guy that you are paying a fortune to make any material decisions. Why appoint him? Did Naqvi and his band criminals not do their Homework

 

[Savak]

Do you believe him?

Why not?

Not every foreigner needs to be blindly believed.

The evidence is also available in front of us. Did Kirsten meet his end of the bargain i.e. to spend maximum time in Pakistan i.e. Academies, Domestic Cricket? The answer is no. Even during the Champions Cup, he only flew down on PCB's special invitation for the connection camp and he flew back immediately once that camp was done and didn't even stay for the end of the camp.

He had ample time to set up camps for white ball purposes but he didn't. PCB rightfully concluded he was not taking his job seriously.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Lots of daft rumours that coach did XYZ or didn't do XYZ and PCB being painted as the Mike Tyson of administrations that knocked out people who strayed out of line.

Funny thing is despite how they spin it, it was Kirsten that resigned. He didn't get sacked

If he violated so much why did they let him.

 

[Savak]

So you don't trust the guy that you are paying a fortune to make any material decisions. Why appoint him? Did Naqvi and his band criminals not do their Homework

If the guy you are paying a fortune is not taking his job seriously and is not bothering to put in the time, effort to check on the local domestic talent then he clearly cannot be trusted with selections. As it is he was stubbornly insisting on the selection of Babar, Shaheen, Shadab in meaningless series like Zimbabwe and advocated for Mohd Haris as the next T-20 captain.

Pretty natural for the PCB to conclude that the guy was not a great or brave coach as they felt he would be.

 

[Savak]

Lots of daft rumours that coach did XYZ or didn't do XYZ and PCB being painted as the Mike Tyson of administrations that knocked out people who strayed out of line.

Funny thing is despite how they spin it, it was Kirsten that resigned. He didn't get sacked

If he violated so much why did they let him.

Pretty simple, if the PCB sacked him, they would have had to pay him severance. Kirsten by resigning himself forfeited his right to severance.

 

[Rana]

Lots of daft rumours that coach did XYZ or didn't do XYZ and PCB being painted as the Mike Tyson of administrations that knocked out people who strayed out of line.

Funny thing is despite how they spin it, it was Kirsten that resigned. He didn't get sacked

If he violated so much why did they let him.

None of us heard about any violations until last night.

We would never have heard of any issues had he not resigned.

 

[Bewal Express]

Why not?

Not every foreigner needs to be blindly believed.

The evidence is also available in front of us. Did Kirsten meet his end of the bargain i.e. to spend maximum time in Pakistan i.e. Academies, Domestic Cricket? The answer is no. Even during the Champions Cup, he only flew down on PCB's special invitation for the connection camp and he flew back immediately once that camp was done and didn't even stay for the end of the camp.

He had ample time to set up camps for white ball purposes but he didn't. PCB rightfully concluded he was not taking his job seriously.

Remember it was you guys that believed that they would make a difference. I told you that most coaches are not what you think coaches do. This isn't Pep or Klopp, these guys are guys with nice words, positivety and strategy, most of which is common sense.
As far as this is concerned the contract can be showed to the public. Then we would know who was lying. If Kirsten is lying then no sympathy but we know the PCB has a poor track record

 

[Bewal Express]

If the guy you are paying a fortune is not taking his job seriously and is not bothering to put in the time, effort to check on the local domestic talent then he clearly cannot be trusted with selections. As it is he was stubbornly insisting on the selection of Babar, Shaheen, Shadab in meaningless series like Zimbabwe and advocated for Mohd Haris as the next T-20 captain.

Pretty natural for the PCB to conclude that the guy was not a great or brave coach as they felt he would be.

And you think Kirsten is the type that doesn't take his job seriously? These guys have a reputation to uphold, they work within agreed contracts.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Pretty simple, if the PCB sacked him, they would have had to pay him severance. Kirsten by resigning himself forfeited his right to severance.

No severance if they had actually proved contract violations rather than just making stuff up and planting in the media.

And if he was such a lay about who didn't care about his job but just wanted to pick up pay cheques he wouldn't have resigned so quickly and forfeited the severance.

These stories are just an attempt at damage limitation.

 

[Kianig89]

Kirsten was there for easy $$$$ and trying to grab authority, he didn't knew that ultimately he was dealing with Khaki wardi, therefore booted out

 

[Savak]

Kirsten was there for easy $$$$ and trying to grab authority, he didn't knew that ultimately he was dealing with Khaki wardi, therefore booted out

PCB needs to perhaps stop avoiding chasing these high profile in demand T-20 league coaches. They will always boss the PCB around and try to use their T-20 demand to their advantage during negotiations.

A low profile foreign coach like Hathurasinghe who will move to Pakistan and work full time will be more beneficial.

 

[RexRex]

I've always had a negative vibe from Kirsten for some reason. Not sure why, just comes off as a bit of an opportunist unlike Gillespie.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

These Gary Kirsten threads clearly show the desperate brown nosery of Pakistani's in general where they will blindly believe a gora and let them walk over them just because of the skin colour.

It is pretty clear Kirsten was not fully committed to his Pakistani role and thought he could treat it as a part time gig with full powers and authority. PCB took his selection powers after he did not meet his end of the bargain i.e. spend time in Pakistan, checking the players in domestic cricket, academies and the PCB rightfully told him how can you select the players when you haven't put in the time, effort to understand the players and work on them in the circuit. Then Kirsten started throwing demands on wanting his own expensive foreign staff where the contract he signed with the PCB stated that he would help the PCB develop the local coaches and staff.

Plus lets be honest, Kirsten's selections were far from impressive, he was against resting Babar and some other senior players for the tour of Zimbabwe, he apparently wanted Mohd Haris as the captain in the T-20 format.

Very good on the PCB for telling him to take a hike once they figured he is not taking the job seriously.

Not spending time in Pakistan and observing and working with the players is a huge issue and if he has been reluctant to do this then parting ways is the right thing to do.

Looks like he was trying to do what Mickey did in his 2nd stint, hire foreign coaches who need a gig and don't mind staying longer in Pakistan and outsourcing his work to them and only joining in on away tours and tournaments.

We need coaches who live and breathe Pakistani cricket, who are there at the NCA everyday working closely with the players and local coaches.

 

[riddu]

he is too old ... hire only young ones with good mind

 

[Savak]

I've always had a negative vibe from Kirsten for some reason. Not sure why, just comes off as a bit of an opportunist unlike Gillespie.

Gillespie even though he is unhappy at being stripped off his selection, still put his head down and continued with his role. He even agreed to step in for Kirsten.

The PCB has told Gillespie that if he wants to get a vote on the selection panel he needs to spend more time in Pakistan at the NCA, with the Shaheen's squads, watching domestic cricket.

 

[LordJames]

Apparently Kirsten only came for a few days during the Champions Cup and that also because the PCB specially invited him for the connection camp. He did not hold a single white ball camp for the players at the academies or domestic players and he had violated his contract which stated he would be allowed 30 days annual leave.

PCB obviously went begging to him and offered him a lucrative package, selection powers but they then observed that he was not as committed to the role as they had hoped for.

PCB did not let him go without a reason. If he was demanding the selection of Babar, Shaheen, Shadab, Iftikhar even for a series like Zimbabwe then good riddance and kuddos to the PCB for standing up to these high profile foreign coaches who think they can exploit PCB's desperation to hire big names and then walk over them with their demands.

Apparently the reason the PCB has given to Kirsten and Gillespie for taking back their selection powers is that they are not spending enough time in the country looking at the academy players, players in the domestic cricket and if they want a say in selections then they have to earn it but for now the selection decisions will be given to the selectors who are working day in, day out with up to date knowledge of the local players available.

Although PCB is a mess but we have to accept some shortcomings of the deal with Gary Kirsten, he didn't stay in Pakistan, didn't know about the local Talent, didn't have any camps so he was pretty much "online" throughout this whole time.

I can understand the issue with T20 World cup in America that he was new but since he hasn't done anything.

 

[Rana]

Although PCB is a mess but we have to accept some shortcomings of the deal with Gary Kirsten, he didn't stay in Pakistan, didn't know about the local Talent, didn't have any camps so he was pretty much "online" throughout this whole time.

I can understand the issue with T20 World cup in America that he was new but since he hasn't done anything.

What was he supposed to do? Organise a World Cup at home whilst Pakistan prepares for the Test season?

 

[Snowflake]

These Gary Kirsten threads clearly show the desperate brown nosery of Pakistani's in general where they will blindly believe a gora and let them walk over them just because of the skin colour.

It is pretty clear Kirsten was not fully committed to his Pakistani role and thought he could treat it as a part time gig with full powers and authority. PCB took his selection powers after he did not meet his end of the bargain i.e. spend time in Pakistan, checking the players in domestic cricket, academies and the PCB rightfully told him how can you select the players when you haven't put in the time, effort to understand the players and work on them in the circuit. Then Kirsten started throwing demands on wanting his own expensive foreign staff where the contract he signed with the PCB stated that he would help the PCB develop the local coaches and staff.

Plus lets be honest, Kirsten's selections were far from impressive, he was against resting Babar and some other senior players for the tour of Zimbabwe, he apparently wanted Mohd Haris as the captain in the T-20 format.

Very good on the PCB for telling him to take a hike once they figured he is not taking the job seriously.

All these allegations have already been debunked by sources.

What else?

 

[LordJames]

What was he supposed to do? Organise a World Cup at home whilst Pakistan prepares for the Test season?

In my opinion, a Coach should at least spend time in the country and if a "White Messiah" is not willing to do it then we shouldn't have him as a Coach.

Why does Pakistan also end up with a part time Coaches who don't even bother to stay in the country?

 

[Rana]

In my opinion, a Coach should at least spend time in the country and if a "White Messiah" is not willing to do it then we shouldn't have him as a Coach.

Why does Pakistan also end up with a part time Coaches who don't even bother to stay in the country?

Coach sab had a plan

He was working towards a method. He wasn’t even allowed to give his method a go. He had his plan set out. It’s not his fault.

Pakistan isn’t exactly Nepal where the coach has to dig deep and look for players all around the country to find something, something that will work. The Pakistan set up has PLENTY of quality players the coach can identify and look to use to execute a plan that he had in mind.

The guy was doing his scouting in his own way. From what I have heard or read, he seemed to be on the right track. This whole Aqib taking over every cricket direction has messed it all up.

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

You’re adding this yourself “he thought it was a much bigger mess than he anticipated”. How do you know? It’s just conjecture.

Sure it's conjecture. But it's a reasonable, educated guess because what other reasons are there? It's not like he didn't like the food in Pakistan and so called it quits... He thought he would have some authority to do things his way and after spending a few months in the system he realised that was not the case and he was just going to be the piggy in the middle while the PCB, its staff, and the players played their petty power games. So he decided to leave.

 

[Savak]

All these allegations have already been debunked by sources.

What else?

Debunked how?

Show me pictures and videos showing he spent quality time in Pakistan in the last 5-6 months apart from flying over for the Champions Cup which was because the PCB specially invited him for the connection camp.

 

[Savak]

Coach sab had a plan

He was working towards a method. He wasn’t even allowed to give his method a go. He had his plan set out. It’s not his fault.

Pakistan isn’t exactly Nepal where the coach has to dig deep and look for players all around the country to find something, something that will work. The Pakistan set up has PLENTY of quality players the coach can identify and look to use to execute a plan that he had in mind.

The guy was doing his scouting in his own way. From what I have heard or read, he seemed to be on the right track. This whole Aqib taking over every cricket direction has messed it all up.

Right track? He wanted Shadab for the Australian and Zimbabwe series, he was against resting Babar, Shaheen for the Zimbabwe series and he strongly advocated for Mohd Haris as the new T-20 captain.

If that is his plan, then kuddos to the PCB for kicking him on his backside.

 

[Rana]

Right track? He wanted Shadab for the Australian and Zimbabwe series, he was against resting Babar, Shaheen for the Zimbabwe series and he strongly advocated for Mohd Haris as the new T-20 captain.

If that is his plan, then kuddos to the PCB for kicking him on his backside.

What’s your issue with Kirsten? He didn’t organise a camp?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Can someone tell me the benefit of a camp?

PCB has had more camps than Butlins but I've yet to see one tangible benefit.

Now it is being portrayed as the be all and end all of cricket.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

bhai he didnt even coach pakistan in ODIs and u r expecting him to hold a camp in Pakistan lol

 

[Savak]

What’s your issue with Kirsten? He didn’t organise a camp?

My issue is he unlike Woolmer didn't spend the time needed in Pakistan. Mickey as coach spent more time in Pakistan and at the NCA. Kirsten wanted a high paycheque with minimal work.

 

[gazza619]

Gary was just here for the dollars. He made some quick money for his retirement care home

 

[Rana]

My issue is he unlike Woolmer didn't spend the time needed in Pakistan. Mickey as coach spent more time in Pakistan and at the NCA. Kirsten wanted a high paycheque with minimal work.

Right.

When did you raise this issue here? In the past 4 months, did you mention it once?

 

[gibsyhesperis]

If the guy you are paying a fortune is not taking his job seriously and is not bothering to put in the time, effort to check on the local domestic talent then he clearly cannot be trusted with selections. As it is he was stubbornly insisting on the selection of Babar, Shaheen, Shadab in meaningless series like Zimbabwe and advocated for Mohd Haris as the next T-20 captain.

Pretty natural for the PCB to conclude that the guy was not a great or brave coach as they felt he would be.

You seem to have an inside track on what went on, but have not declared your source, which I am sure everyone would be interested to know .
There are a lot of “client journalists” briefing against Kirsten, at the behest of the PCB, knowing that by doing this they will be assured of access and privilege in the future.
It truly is so unsavoury and rather cheap.

 

[Farabi]

Sure it's conjecture. But it's a reasonable, educated guess because what other reasons are there? It's not like he didn't like the food in Pakistan and so called it quits... He thought he would have some authority to do things his way and after spending a few months in the system he realised that was not the case and he was just going to be the piggy in the middle while the PCB, its staff, and the players played their petty power games. So he decided to leave.

Given the recent sequence of events, with Gary in Pakistan for the Champions Cup and attending the Connections camp until just recently, combined with Gillespie’s recent statements in the media, it’s clear that the situation has worsened over the past few weeks. It seems that coaches were told they would no longer have the authority to select the playing XI—a decision comparable to asking a batter to score runs without providing them a bat, yet still holding them accountable. Essentially, this was a forced resignation, as no coach would accept a role diminished to that of an analyst. This isn’t just a minor tweak; it’s a fundamental shift that effectively sidelines the coach's role and tells them “you’re not needed anymore”.

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

Given the recent sequence of events, with Gary in Pakistan for the Champions Cup and attending the Connections camp until just recently, combined with Gillespie’s recent statements in the media, it’s clear that the situation has worsened over the past few weeks. It seems that coaches were told they would no longer have the authority to select the playing XI—a decision comparable to asking a batter to score runs without providing them a bat, yet still holding them accountable. Essentially, this was a forced resignation, as no coach would accept a role diminished to that of an analyst. This isn’t just a minor tweak; it’s a fundamental shift that effectively sidelines the coach's role and tells them “you’re not needed anymore”.

Yep, agreed. That's kinda what I've been trying to get at.

 

[Snowflake]

Debunked how?

Show me pictures and videos showing he spent quality time in Pakistan in the last 5-6 months apart from flying over for the Champions Cup which was because the PCB specially invited him for the connection camp.

I will show you after you show me the proof for all the claims you have made.