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Why do you believe in God?

The onus is on you to disprove x, y or z, I don't need to since am the one who you need to convince :yk3 :irfan

Why would I need to convince anyone?

This is a debate where we present our ideas and let them be scrutinised. The weight of evidence is what separates the arguments presented.
 
Why would I need to convince anyone?

This is a debate where we present our ideas and let them be scrutinised. The weight of evidence is what separates the arguments presented.

Why shouldn't you? it is your belief
 
The onus is on you to disprove x, y or z, I don't need to since am the one who you need to convince :yk3 :irfan

Your position is that onus is equal on both sides but Harry Potter doesn't count because that's low level garbage. God is attributed with creating the universe. We know that there are millions of Gods in one major religion alone. If you had to prove and disprove each one of them because that's how onus works you'd need millions of years assuming you could work one God out per day. Need to find the cure for mortality.
 
Fine they will be rewarded.


Shouldn't the Testing field be equal for all ?


An abnormal child is born. One who even cannot conceive life. He/She won't even Sin as they cannot differenciate between a virtue and a sin from any parameter. They will suffer lifelong. Is this a level playing field ? From the point of getting born they are not given the capacity, capability to be tested while the normal beings have a path to chose.


Surely when you are blessed and than your blessing is taken away than Yes you are Tested.

How do we know if the testing field is unequal, that the rewards won't be disproportionate either? For all we know an abnormal child in this life might be an archangel in the next. Or whatever the highest level of reward is.
 
How do we know if the testing field is unequal, that the rewards won't be disproportionate either? For all we know an abnormal child in this life might be an archangel in the next. Or whatever the highest level of reward is.


I was talking about this World. The Test is here.
 
So, after vehemently insisting that we must disprove existence, you now can't apply your own logic.

Why are you backtracking?

Why are you backtracking? am the one who you need to convince, why should I have to do so? am not the one who has said god exists or god does not exist. But you have been unable to disprove god's existence and at the same time have said you believe in the higher power.

You have to resort to stupid questions involving movie characters after losing the argument.
 
Lol onus is on religious people to prove the existence of God.They were the one who came up with the idea of an almighty , it's their responsibility to back up their claims with facts and not ours.
Tomorrow someone may start claiming he has seen dementors gliding around in Birmingham.And it would look really stupid if reporters came to him to validate the news and instead he starts questioning them demanding to prove dementor's existence first before proceeding any further.
Can't believe anyone can be this stupid:facepalm:
 
Lol onus is on religious people to prove the existence of God.They were the one who came up with the idea of an almighty , it's their responsibility to back up their claims with facts and not ours.
Tomorrow someone may start claiming he has seen dementors gliding around in Birmingham.And it would look really stupid if reporters came to him to validate the news and instead he starts questioning them demanding to prove dementor's existence first before proceeding any further.
Can't believe anyone can be this stupid:facepalm:

Well said.
 
Why are you backtracking? am the one who you need to convince, why should I have to do so? am not the one who has said god exists or god does not exist. But you have been unable to disprove god's existence and at the same time have said you believe in the higher power.

You have to resort to stupid questions involving movie characters after losing the argument.

I could care less what you believe. We're discussing facts.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat this very same sentence. I have never said that I believe in the possibility that there might be, as well as the possibility of there being nothing. That is not believing in a higher power.

Why can't you disprove the Harry Potter question?

Just apply the logic you have insisted on.

Are you refusing to apply you're own logic?
 
Lol onus is on religious people to prove the existence of God.They were the one who came up with the idea of an almighty , it's their responsibility to back up their claims with facts and not ours.
Tomorrow someone may start claiming he has seen dementors gliding around in Birmingham.And it would look really stupid if reporters came to him to validate the news and instead he starts questioning them demanding to prove dementor's existence first before proceeding any further.
Can't believe anyone can be this stupid:facepalm:

It's not them to prove anything. Religious people believe in a God, it's a belief system. It's atheists who spend masses of time talking about something they don't believe exists. Do you see religious people wasting time trying to debate something they feel is non-existent.
 
I could care less what you believe. We're discussing facts.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat this very same sentence. I have never said that I believe in the possibility that there might be, as well as the possibility of there being nothing. That is not believing in a higher power.

Why can't you disprove the Harry Potter question?

Just apply the logic you have insisted on.

Are you refusing to apply you're own logic?

And I could care less what the hell you believe either am discussing facts to. What is the purpose of your question and what is my logic exactly what does it involve? I want to know your understanding of it
 
It's not them to prove anything. Religious people believe in a God, it's a belief system. It's atheists who spend masses of time talking about something they don't believe exists. Do you see religious people wasting time trying to debate something they feel is non-existent.

They want to feel better about their choices that's why they argue and get heated when you ask them valid questions like disprove god's existence before bringing in Harry Potter to the equation :))) lost causes. And you know my views as well am a neutral and I say that, totally agree with you
 
It's not them to prove anything. Religious people believe in a God, it's a belief system. It's atheists who spend masses of time talking about something they don't believe exists. Do you see religious people wasting time trying to debate something they feel is non-existent.

I'm sorry but that's completely ridiculous.How can I possibly prove he doesn't exist? Tomorrow some lunatic might claim Superman exists , do you honestly believe that it's my responsibility to waste my time disapproving his existence?
I MEAN YOU COULD CLAIM THAT ANYTHING'S REAL , IF THE ONLY BASIS FOR BELIEVING IN IT IS THAT NOBODY'S PROVED IT DOESN'T EXIST!
 
In other words you can't disprove that God exists :ashwin that's what I thought, you're limited to fallacies, juvenile logic and ineptness sadly; reek of hypocrisy. You can't practice what you preach :(

How so? and since there are a variety of reasons one of which includes to sin then that should not be wiped under the carpet, am not denying that there are also the more "integrated" folk who are brain washed by the texts they read which lead to preconceived ideas that result in conclusions that god don't exist based on weak arguments which involve methods that are not perfect :yk2

Am asking a simple question yet you accuse me of derailing the thread, you derailed the thread by just saying that. And no need to cry about all those things, you spew them as well just because am asking you a question that can't be answered.

You yourself admit that this scientific method is not perfect so how can you be so sure that God does not exist?

You will resort to nonsense do divert from this question, hole blah blah etc

I've not stated it is the primary motivating factor but it's not something which you've not debated strangely bbut I have touched on it.

When did I say am enlightened etc not sure where you got that from, am imperfect; you're right about everything though isn't it :yk am willing to learn so don't take the questions I ask so personally.

If people disprove the existence of God there ought to be reasons behind it which lead to that belief, why should such folk be immune from sharing these views and explaining them; after all their vast knowledge would have lead them to the conclusion that God does not exist.

Am not saying that I know better but desire something concrete with regards to disproving God's existence. I've not said that he does exist myself. Thus far I've not been given anything concrete, you have stated that method is not perfect but that is expected because there are always errors to account for when it come to science.

Why don't you show research or evidence that it is not a factor?

And the only factor you have mentioned repeatedly is based on your own individual research etc I've not seen much evidence for that either tbh

I didn't say that you are brainwashed to question a belief system but by the research you've done to develop your views after all those who read scriptures are brainwashed as well, why can't we say the same for you; a book is a book, there are just different books out there.

No, but I need more information before coming to ultimate conclusions.

Well nothing you've not mentioned already, the source of your view is the imperfect scientific method right; is there anything else that contributed to your conclusion that God does not exist?

Believe what exists? what did I say that I believe?

I have not come across that view of yours, so you do believe in a higher power of some form then?

Not really, you're taking my views out of context. Is that what you do when you read books as well?

Where have I said that I believe in everything? it's what you assume.

One does have to disprove that God exists and what lead them to believe that way, the onus is on you as much as the other guy; why is it a different rule for you?

Which other things?

I agree with that mostly but does that "100% not sure" result from not being able to disprove the existence of God adequately? for me God and higher power are the same thing just to be clear.

What is that fallacy?

Well it's just a stupid character from a work of fiction which we all know about. Yet you are still hot about the fact that you can't adequately disprove the existence of a higher power

But the two are not the same thing, this higher power has been attributed to creating the universe and everything in it; you yourself have not ruled out the possibility as well so I suppose there is not much else to discuss

It's been attributed by whom?

Well who do you think? since it's a possibility which you're open to

The Scientific Method is not perfect though :ashwin

So these people accept that there is a higher power and that stems from the fact that they can't prove God does not exist :broad but if there is any other reason, they still believe in the possibility of a higher power :yk

The onus is on you to disprove x, y or z, I don't need to since am the one who you need to convince :yk3 :irfan

Why shouldn't you? it is your belief

Why are you backtracking? am the one who you need to convince, why should I have to do so? am not the one who has said god exists or god does not exist. But you have been unable to disprove god's existence and at the same time have said you believe in the higher power.

You have to resort to stupid questions involving movie characters after losing the argument.

Where exactly have you disproven Harry Potter?
 
And I could care less what the hell you believe either am discussing facts to. What is the purpose of your question and what is my logic exactly what does it involve? I want to know your understanding of it

Which facts have you discussed or presented?

Your logic is that one must disprove existence. So disprove that Harry Potter isn't the higher power?
 
Which facts have you discussed or presented?

Your logic is that one must disprove existence. So disprove that Harry Potter isn't the higher power?

So you couldn't answer any of my questions and are now backtracking using movie characters to help you out :yk2
 
So you couldn't answer any of my questions and are now backtracking using movie characters to help you out :yk2

Are you saying that the probability of God being Harry Potter is the same as Abrahamic God?
 
The man is so heated that I asked him to disprove God which is valid given his belief but got so heated he is going off on a tangent and bringing irrelevant movie characters into the equation and asking me to disprove them, do you even read what you post :yk2
 
I'm sorry but that's completely ridiculous.How can I possibly prove he doesn't exist? Tomorrow some lunatic might claim Superman exists , do you honestly believe that it's my responsibility to waste my time disapproving his existence?
I MEAN YOU COULD CLAIM THAT ANYTHING'S REAL , IF THE ONLY BASIS FOR BELIEVING IN IT IS THAT NOBODY'S PROVED IT DOESN'T EXIST!

You don't have to prove anything, this is the point. Why would you care what people believe in? It is miltant atheists who claim God doesn't exist but if there only argument is believers cant prove he doesn't exist, the debate ends there.
 
The man is so heated that I asked him to disprove God which is valid given his belief but got so heated he is going off on a tangent and bringing irrelevant movie characters into the equation and asking me to disprove them, do you even read what you post :yk2


Yes all that is a given.

Now, where the answer using the logic you insisted on?

I am acutely aware of what I posted.

So, can you please provide the answer using the very logic you insisted on?
 
:)))

Get on the phone to JK Rowling , im sure she can explain what Harry Potter is.

:))) miandadrules losing it, I've never seen him throw words in the mouth of others and come up with silly assumptions; wow he is truly rustled. Just because someone asked him to disprove the existence of god :( it's not my fault his argument was weak and he didn't provide concrete proofs :yasir
 
:))) miandadrules losing it, I've never seen him throw words in the mouth of others and come up with silly assumptions; wow he is truly rustled. Just because someone asked him to disprove the existence of god :( it's not my fault his argument was weak and he didn't provide concrete proofs :yasir

Where's the answer?
 
Yes all that is a given.

Now, where the answer using the logic you insisted on?

I am acutely aware of what I posted.

So, can you please provide the answer using the very logic you insisted on?

The logic which asked you to disprove god's existence given your views? your question is not relevant to me, what views have I posted specifically on the question which is being asked with regards to Harry Potter :)))
 
The logic which asked you to disprove god's existence given your views? your question is not relevant to me, what views have I posted specifically on the question which is being asked with regards to Harry Potter :)))

Your very that existence has to be disproven. The entire premise of your argument.

So apply it.
 
That's not disproving it.

Using your logic his existence has to be disproven.

Evidence is what defines proof not logic. Your logic is to make someone prove Harry Poter is not God but even a 5 year old child knows he's a fictional character. Or do you believe he's not? :inti
 
Your very that existence has to be disproven. The entire premise of your argument.

So apply it.

God's existence in particular yes that is correct. But since you don't believe he existed I asked you to disprove it, why was my question not valid? if you hold a certain view would you accept that one would need to provide reasons for it especially when they are arguing the opposing view? lmao not sure how Harry comes into all of this :)))
 
Evidence is what defines proof not logic. Your logic is to make someone prove Harry Poter is not God but even a 5 year old child knows he's a fictional character. Or do you believe he's not? :inti

You need to disprove Lord Voldemort! :))) first answer that please, am trying to dissect your arguments
 
God's existence in particular yes that is correct. But since you don't believe he existed I asked you to disprove it, why was my question not valid? if you hold a certain view would you accept that one would need to provide reasons for it especially when they are arguing the opposing view?

You don't believe Harry Potter existed and was the higher power. Disprove it.

If the default setting is accepting what is said exists then this shouldn't be difficult to do?
 
Evidence is what defines proof not logic. Your logic is to make someone prove Harry Poter is not God but even a 5 year old child knows he's a fictional character. Or do you believe he's not? :inti

Prove that God isn't a fictional character.
 
You don't believe Harry Potter existed and was the higher power. Disprove it.

If the default setting is accepting what is said exists then this shouldn't be difficult to do?

Talk about hitting a wall repeatedly lmao I think my posts makes too much sense which is why you've gone off on a tangent as you have nothing of substance to respond with
 
Talk about hitting a wall repeatedly lmao I think my posts makes too much sense which is why you've gone off on a tangent as you have nothing of substance to respond with

I'm asking you to disprove existence. That's what you insisted on.

You don't believe in Harry Potter, so there must be a way of disproving it.
 
I'm asking you to disprove existence. That's what you insisted on.

You don't believe in Harry Potter, so there must be a way of disproving it.

God's existence* yes that I insisted on* given your views, it is only valid for me to ask a valid question. Why are you so butt hurt about that :yk
 
God's existence* yes that I insisted on* given your views, it is only valid for me to ask a valid question. Why are you so butt hurt about that :yk

And you said that you believe Harry Potter is a fictional character. Disprove his existence using your logic.

Given your views and your insistence on such logic it's a valid question.
 
And you said that you believe Harry Potter is a fictional character. Disprove his existence using your logic.

Given your views and your insistence on such logic it's a valid question.

Where have I specified my views on Harry Potter firstly :yk2

Then I will decide if I must answer the question :broad
 
Where have I specified my views on Harry Potter firstly :yk2

Then I will decide if I must answer the question :broad

You said he was a fictional character.

Disprove that this fictional character isn't a the all mighty?
 
So you believe everything exists unless proven otherwise?

No, but I need more information before coming to ultimate conclusions.

How convenient.

So this criteria is applied on a whim?

Why do you believe everything exists unless proven otherwise?

Believe what exists? what did I say that I believe?

You said one has to disprove that God exists.

So you must believe everything unless it is disproven.

You're suddenly struggling to get grips with your own logic.

Not really, you're taking my views out of context. Is that what you do when you read books as well?

Where have I said that I believe in everything? it's what you assume.

One does have to disprove that God exists and what lead them to believe that way, the onus is on you as much as the other guy; why is it a different rule for you?

You said one must disprove God's existence yet not for other things?

Why the inconsistency?

Which other things?

Anything and everything.

You'll have to disprove that all Polytheist Gods and every piece of fiction.

Well it's just a stupid character from a work of fiction which we all know about. Yet you are still hot about the fact that you can't adequately disprove the existence of a higher power

Where have I said anything like that on Harry Potter? show me the posts :afridi

There you go.
 
You said that I said that Harry Potter is x or y or z, in which post have I specifically stated what you are suggesting?

In the post above, second to last paragraph:

"Well it's just a stupid character from a work of fiction which we all know about..."
 
[MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION] I just seen the post now, I now have changed my mind to this "I do not have an opinion on Harry Potter" :akhtar

So why is it wrong of me to ask you to disprove God's existence given your views again :yk2
 
[MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION] I just seen the post now, I now have changed my mind to this "I do not have an opinion on Harry Potter" :akhtar

So why is it wrong of me to ask you to disprove God's existence given your views again :yk2

That's fine.

Can you disprove his existence during the time you thought he was fiction?
 
But you did once.

Why don't you have the courage of your convictions and apply your own logic?

I said to you I don't have an opinion on it so it defeats the purpose of discussing that point.

My logic simply asked you to disprove God's existence based on your beliefs, why don't you have the courage to explain why it is wrong to ask you that question why are you so afraid? if someone believes something they provide reasons for it simples.
 
I said to you I don't have an opinion on it so it defeats the purpose of discussing that point.

My logic simply asked you to disprove God's existence based on your beliefs, why don't you have the courage to explain why it is wrong to ask you that question why are you so afraid?

You're refusing to answer. At least we're clear on that.

And I suggested the best model to assess proof. Unless you have a better model?
 
You're refusing to answer. At least we're clear on that.

And I suggested the best model to assess proof. Unless you have a better model?

My answer is that I can't disprove that.

Yes, you have; and you stated that it was not perfect. But you still have not answered why it is wrong of me to ask you to provide reasons for your views
 
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My answer is that I can't disprove that.

Yes, you have; and you stated that it was not perfect. But you still have not answered why it is wrong of me to ask you to provide reasons for your views

If you can't disprove that then that means the probability of there being a God that is a stupid fictional character is the same as that of the Arbrahamic faiths? As according to you we can't disprove either.

When have I once said it was wrong for you ask me anything?

It's not perfect so why don't you present a better one?
 
So the evidence is based on what the author says?

So if tomorrow she says he is real and that she was just his messenger, he will pop in to existence?

There are written documents which show she made up the character. She continues to write more which are turned into books and films. If tomorrow she says he's real, they will put in her into a mental asylum. You can visit.
 
If you can't disprove that then that means the probability of there being a God that is a stupid fictional character is the same as that of the Arbrahamic faiths? As according to you we can't disprove either.

When have I once said it was wrong for you ask me anything?

It's not perfect so why don't you present a better one?

I can't disprove Harry potter's existence because he exists in all the book's and hearts of all fans, he exists in the fictional world. I asked you to disprove God, were you successful? am not so sure. You provided the method and stated it was the best available, I don't have an alternative which is why I asked you the question given that I have not developed a view on the existence or lack of existence when it comes to God; however the method you presented the best method it seems is imperfect in your own words.
 
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There are written documents which show she made up the character. She continues to write more which are turned into books and films. If tomorrow she says he's real, they will put in her into a mental asylum. You can visit.

So if prophets were around now you'd advocate them being put in to a mental asylum?

There have been books, films and stories about God too. Stories dating back before organised religion as we know it.

Maybe she'll say that the message had been corrupted and that now she is revealing the truth. You know how people like corrupting Gods words, e.g. The bible.
 
Whats the point to discuss when you have no aims of taking a lesson instead you fight for your own argument just for the sake of not loosing it.
 
I can't disprove Harry potter's existence because he exists in all the book's and hearts of all fans, he exists in the fictional world. I asked you to disprove God, were you successful? am not so sure. You provided the method and stated it was the best available, I don't have an alternative which is why I asked you the question given that I have not developed a view on the existence or lack of existence when it comes to God; however the method you presented the best method it seems is imperfect in your own words.

Then I retort that using your logic "God exists in the hearts and books of all his fans, he exists in a fictional world."

So the probability that Harry Potter and God existing is the same, I base my views on the overwhelmingly odds in favour of him being a work of fiction.
 
So if prophets were around now you'd advocate them being put in to a mental asylum?

There have been books, films and stories about God too. Stories dating back before organised religion as we know it.

Maybe she'll say that the message had been corrupted and that now she is revealing the truth. You know how people like corrupting Gods words, e.g. The bible.

What an ridiculous comparison. :))

We can prove Harry Potter was written and made up a person.

Can you prove the Quran was written by a person?
 
Then I retort that using your logic "God exists in the hearts and books of all his fans, he exists in a fictional world."

So the probability that Harry Potter and God existing is the same, I base my views on the overwhelmingly odds in favour of him being a work of fiction.

But at the same time you're open to the possibility of a higher power
 
But at the same time you're open to the possibility of a higher power

Open to the possibility.

Is this a difficult concept for you to grasp?

A possibility of which according to the method you insisted on is as likely as a "stupid fictional" character existing too.
 
[MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION]



1. Gandhi wrote in Young India: ‘The more I study the more I discover that the strength of Islam does not lie in the sword.’



2. Arya Samajists Pandit Gyanandra Dev Sharma Shastri said:

Biased critics of Islam and especially those who want to provoke Hindu-Muslim riots in the country say that Hazrat Muhammad after acquiring power in Medina could not maintain his facade of mercy and kindness.There he used force and violence and became a murderous prophet to achieve his life-long aim of power, status and wealth. He fell short of his own ideal of patience, moderation and endurance. But this is the view of those observers who are prejudicial and partisan, who are narrow minded and whose eyes are covered by a veil of ignorance. They see fire instead of light, ugliness instead of beauty and evil instead of good. They distort and present every good quality as a great vice. It reflects their own depravityÂ…

The critics are blind. They cannot see that the only ‘sword’ Muhammad wielded was the sword of mercy, compassion, friendship and forgiveness—the sword that conquers enemies and purifies their hearts. His sword was sharper than the sword of steel. 1



3. The editor of the Sat Updaish, wrote:

Some people say that Islam was preached by the sword, but we cannot agree with this view. What is forced on people is soon rejected. Had Islam been imposed on people through oppression, there would have been no Islam today. Why? Because the Prophet of Islam had spiritual power, he loved humanity and he was guided by the ideal of ultimate good. 2



4. The editor of the Vedic Magazine and a former professor of Gurukul, Kangri Ram Dev, said:

Sitting in Medina, Muhammad Sahib (peace be to him) held the Arabs spellbound; he filled them with spiritual strength; strength that makesdevtas [gods] out of menÂ… it is incorrect to say that Islam spread with the force of the sword. It is a fact that the sword was never wielded to propagate Islam. If religion can be spread by force then let anyone try it today. 3



5. Dr D. W. Leitz said:

' All these arguments, advanced to prove that the purpose of jihad was to spread Islam by force, are contradicted by the Quran. The Quran says that the purpose of jihad is to protect mosques, churches, synagogues and cloisters. ' 4



6. Thomas ArnoldÂ’s said:

‘Islam has gained its greatest and most lasting missionary triumphs in times and places in which its political power has been weakest.” 5



7. A Sikh journalist wrote :

" In the beginning the ProphetÂ’s enemies made life difficult for him and his followers. So the Prophet asked his followers to leave their homes and migrate to Medina. He preferred migration to fighting his own people, but when oppression went beyond the pale of tolerance he took up his sword in self-defense. Those who believe religion can be spread by force are fools who neither know the ways of religion nor the ways of the world. They are proud of this belief because they are a long, long way away from the Truth. " 6




References:


1. Translated from an Urdu speech by Pundit Shastri at a Gorakhpur (India) meeting, 1928, to commemorate the ProphetÂ’s birth, see Dunya ka Hadi Ghairon ki Nazar Main , 57, 61.


2. Sat Updaish, Lahore, 7 July 1915; see Barguzida Rasul Ghairon Main Maqbul , 12, 13.


3. Prof. Ram Dev, The Prakash , see Burguzida Rasul Ghairon Main Maqbul , 24.



4. D. W. Lenz, Asiatic Quarterly Review , October 1886. Dr Leitz



5. W. Thomas Arnold, The Preaching of Islam: a History of the Propagation of the Muslim Faith , 2nd ed. (London: Constable and Co. Ltd, 1913), 279–80.



6. Literally, ‘The knower of the psyche of the Prophet’, or ‘The observer of the Prophet’s mind’.

Where is the evidence that corroborate actual historical events?

I'm not sure if your accustomed to analysing data or history but none of this addresses what was discussed.

Ideologies have been spread through many means but military conquest and patronage have been responsible for the overwhelming majority of this.

If you are going to present evidence it has to be rigorous enough that it would stand up to scrutiny. You've just presented statements made a millennia after actual events. If centuries down the line I make a statement does it become fact?

By the same token if someone states that religion was ONLY spread by the sword I would take them to task about the fallacy and ask for proof.

But to minimise the impact conquest, patronage, economics and geopolitics had in the spread of religion because it makes uncomfortable reading is disingenuous.
 
Open to the possibility.

Is this a difficult concept for you to grasp?

A possibility of which according to the method you insisted on is as likely as a "stupid fictional" character existing too.

But you are open to the possibility , what part of that post is mentally challenging for you to grasp? yes the scientific method which is not perfect.
 
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But you are open to the possibility , what part of that post is mentally challenging for you to grasp? yes the scientific method which is not perfect.

Open to the possibility is not the same as believing in a "higher power". Two very distinct terms.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that "concept" proposed by any belief system in the history of mankind is that being even if he does exist.

There are an infinite number of possibilities.

I am not arrogant enough to claim I have all the answers. If I am presented with evidence my views will change.

Now contrast that with religion which says it has all the answers but can't provide any proof.
 

JK Rowling is not the author but the prophet of Potter Almighty. An angel came to her and told her to write down the gospel, and lo! - it has spread all over the world, nobody could ever write a book so perfect, so it must be true!
 
JK Rowling is not the author but the prophet of Potter Almighty. An angel came to her and told her to write down the gospel, and lo! - it has spread all over the world, nobody could ever write a book so perfect, so it must be true!

Stay off the ice tea Robert and enjoy the Pakistan win :)
 
For me the question always comes back to:

"If nothing happens without God's will, then why does God make the innocent newborn or babies suffer since the suffering must then be caused by God will?"

Or even "Why doesn't God prevent the suffering?"

And to those who claim that it's "A test from God", I ask "What aspect of the newborn is God testing by making (or allowing) the innocent newborn to suffer?"


I was a very devout Muslim until I could not reconcile this any more as I grew older.

I would have understand if one had limited choices,in which some would be "bad" and some "good" but if you have no control whatsoever how can one be good or bad,so worthy of hell or paradise.
 
I was expecting a more solid justification with similar evidence which you were asking of those who hold the opposing, I don't agree that the onus is on them; there should also be an onus on you, things are fair this way.

Am a neutral by the way am undecided on the matter, as the referee this battle can only be contested under fair rules. I can't make an exception for you. Both party's will protect themselves at all times and can't resort to illegal tactics.

If God does not exist I want evidence.

If God does exist I want evidence.

Also, in your own words you pointed out how it is important not to indulge in disputes when it comes to the beliefs of others because it is the root of violence; am disappointed that you've contributed to the divisions on these forums.
God existence can't be prove,so true faith is blind or atleast partially if you need evidences or "miracles" to believe in you aren't a believer.
 
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