Why does Pakistan have the worst pace attack (apart from Bangladesh) in Tests?

[Kohli The King of Chase]

This is such a shame, to even think that the Land of Sarfraz, Imran, Wasim, Waqar and Shoaib are struggling to find one decent pace bowler.

Even SL and WI have a better pace attack in Tests.

Especially for the land of pacers.

What would Imran, Wasim and Waqar would be feeling looking at this bowling attack?


And to struggle to get the wickets of Irish, on their debut is such a shame. Not mocking tho.


Will Pakistan be able to find 2 - 3 good test pacers, in a year or two ?

NOTE: THIS IS THE DISCUSSION BASED ON YOUR TEST PACE ATTACK. YES, YOU DO HAVE A VERY GOOD LOI PACE ATTACK.

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

When you can't even get the tail enders of Ireland, out. It is something serious.

 

[Sachin136]

Gabriel, Joseph, and Holder are probably better, but Pakistan is still ahead of Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

Even SL and WI have a better pace attack in Tests.

The Fizz is better than SL and Windies pace attacks.

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

Gabriel, Joseph, and Holder are probably better, but Pakistan is still ahead of Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh.

Ahead of ZIM and Ban. Not sure about SL thou.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

This is such a shame, to even think that the Land of Sarfraz, Imran, Wasim, Waqar and Shoaib are struggling to find one decent pace bowler.

Even SL and WI have a better pace attack in Tests.

Especially for the land of pacers.

What would Imran, Wasim and Waqar would be feeling looking at this bowling attack?


And to struggle to get the wickets of Irish, on their debut is such a shame. Not mocking tho.


Will Pakistan be able to find 2 - 3 good test pacers, in a year or two ?

NOTE: THIS IS THE DISCUSSION BASED ON YOUR TEST PACE ATTACK. YES, YOU DO HAVE A VERY GOOD LOI PACE ATTACK.

When you have a bowler like Rahat who averages 35+ with the bowl that's like playing with only 4 bowlers

 

[hur rizvi]

Well we should probably start with picking the right set for squad and playing XI

How on earth you can play rahat ahead of Hassan

 

[babajee]

We need Bashir, Ehtisham and Irfan

 

[castortroy]

Mohammed Abbas and Arshad shouldn't be anywhere near this team. Such a pony attack that will struggle to take 20 wickets in a test match unless shadab has a blinder

 

[Hasan123]

Our test attack is nothing special. It was unnecessarily hyped by the usual hype brigade. Hassan Ali is the only reliable wicket taker and he hasn't even played 3 tests .

 

[CricFan2012]

Both batting and bowling has declined in tests but we've improved in LOI which is the future of cricket so can care less

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

Why is Junaid not being looked into?

Is Wahab really worse than Rahat?

What is Hassan Ali being rested for?

Why is Hamza guy dropped, without even a game?

Why are there just 4 genuine seamers on an English tour?

Why can't that Sadaf guy get into even the A team?

Some serious questions to be answered by the PCB, Selectors and the management.

 

[deems]

Our test attack is very good. It's our fielding letting us down every time. The bowlers create opportunities only for them to be missed. Do we really need this thread considering our attack is very very inexperienced at international level... Yes you read it right. I'd you combine all international exposure of our attack including ODI, you'll see it's very inexperienced..
Another aspect is captaincy. My point is in particular reference to slip and field placing. It seems like we're always a slip fielder short at the wrong phase of the game missing out on catching opportunities and field spreads after partnership exceeds 30 off plus runs.

We need to be logical in our points.

 

[Dingolfy]

Our test attack is very good. It's our fielding letting us down every time. The bowlers create opportunities only for them to be missed. Do we really need this thread considering our attack is very very inexperienced at international level... Yes you read it right. I'd you combine all international exposure of our attack including ODI, you'll see it's very inexperienced..
Another aspect is captaincy. My point is in particular reference to slip and field placing. It seems like we're always a slip fielder short at the wrong phase of the game missing out on catching opportunities and field spreads after partnership exceeds 30 off plus runs.

We need to be logical in our points.

Pakistanis were never good fielders, especially in Tests.But still your guys took wickets because they went for a high percentage of LBWs and bowleds.Current bunch are simply not good enough for Tests.

 

[Greenstorm]

We need attacking pace bowlers who can consistently bowl 145+ and can hit 150. Wahab is the closest thing we have got. He and Shaheen should have been in the squad.

 

[Kaka4pope]

Our test attack is very good. It's our fielding letting us down every time. The bowlers create opportunities only for them to be missed. Do we really need this thread considering our attack is very very inexperienced at international level... Yes you read it right. I'd you combine all international exposure of our attack including ODI, you'll see it's very inexperienced..
Another aspect is captaincy. My point is in particular reference to slip and field placing. It seems like we're always a slip fielder short at the wrong phase of the game missing out on catching opportunities and field spreads after partnership exceeds 30 off plus runs.

We need to be logical in our points.

Agree, we do drop a lot of catchable chances as standard and as we currently have good quick bowlers rather than ones who can run through an attack, we need to take to regulation chances.

Also captaincy, not sure if Sarfy knows his business as well in test cricket...

 

[ArsenalFC]

In this test the 2 liabilities in the bowling have been Faheem and Rahat. Replacing the latter with Hasan Ali would be a good start. Amir and Abbas have bowled well and are suited for these conditions.

I feel Shadab could have made better use of his googly but lets not forget he's in for Yasir and only playing his 2nd test although with his batting contributions I would like to see him stay in the side.

Faheem's batting at 8 is very useful but from what I've seen of him since the QeA 16/17 final for Habib Bank, I still don't rate his bowling. He is a part time 6th bowler option at best.

 

[Markhor]

Because all they have to do in domestic cricket is land the ball on a length and let conditions do the work for them !

It seems our pacers have forgotten how to use the new ball or take wickets when conditions offer nothing.

 

[srh]

The test attack is not bad; Amir & Abbas are pretty good; replace Shadab with Yasir and Rahat with Hamza and you have 4 genuine wicket takers

 

[troodon]

Pak is in with the wrong pace attack IMO.

Amir - Left arm swing + pace.
Hasan Ali - Tight line and length and damage with old ball.
Wahab - Raw pace who can unsettle the batsman.

The above 3 should be Pak's first choice attack.

Faheem and Shadab are decent 4th and 5th options in away tours as they can offer something with the bat if they fail miserably with the ball.

Having Rahat Ali is duplicating Amir again. Both are similar style bowlers. Abbas honestly is a very mild bowler. He is getting wickets, but he does not look threatening at all. May be his demeanor is like that. Looks soft and bowls soft.

You need a tare away fast bowler when nothing is happening with the swing bowlers and that is what Wahab Riaz is known for. I am surprised he is not part of the team.

 

[asifp]

Pak is in with the wrong pace attack IMO.

Amir - Left arm swing + pace.
Hasan Ali - Tight line and length and damage with old ball.
Wahab - Raw pace who can unsettle the batsman.

The above 3 should be Pak's first choice attack.

Faheem and Shadab are decent 4th and 5th options in away tours as they can offer something with the bat if they fail miserably with the ball.

Having Rahat Ali is duplicating Amir again. Both are similar style bowlers. Abbas honestly is a very mild bowler. He is getting wickets, but he does not look threatening at all. May be his demeanor is like that. Looks soft and bowls soft.

You need a tare away fast bowler when nothing is happening with the swing bowlers and that is what Wahab Riaz is known for. I am surprised he is not part of the team.

Agreed and its all about merit and logic. Rahat Ali is back in the test team cause he did well in the PSL? Sure that should get him back in the T20 team, but why in the test squad.

Amir
Hasan Ali
Wahab / Abbas / Junaid

In England that is what you need. I have not seen Sadaf Hussain bowl, but he does deserve a chance, simply for that outstanding record that he has.

 

[gazza619]

Such an overreaction and nobody is giving credit to Ireland. The wicket was as flat as a pancake and the bowlers got tired at the end.

I have no doubt in my mind that we have one of the best attacks in all formats.

 

[nextover666666]

they selected the wrong pacer in rahat ali, and resting hasan ali is not the best thing, if they select the right pace attack than they can easily have a great pace attack in test cricket.

 

[Abdullah719]

Such an overreaction and nobody is giving credit to Ireland. The wicket was as flat as a pancake and the bowlers got tired at the end.

I have no doubt in my mind that we have one of the best attacks in all formats.

Dunno about best attack but some of the reaction has definitely been over the top. Ireland are also there to compete and must be given credit.

 

[babajee]

Dunno about best attack but some of the reaction has definitely been over the top. Ireland are also there to compete and must be given credit.

Eid has come early for certain posters

 

[moghul]

Gabriel, Joseph, and Holder are probably better, but Pakistan is still ahead of Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh.

No, we have the worst pace attack than SL and Zimb, only Rahat is world class.

 

[moghul]

Why is Junaid not being looked into?

Is Wahab really worse than Rahat?

What is Hassan Ali being rested for?

Why is Hamza guy dropped, without even a game?

Why are there just 4 genuine seamers on an English tour?

Why can't that Sadaf guy get into even the A team?

Some serious questions to be answered by the PCB, Selectors and the management.

Sadaf is another Rahat.

 

[MMHS]

PAK have to debut pacers at "teen" age, couple of years to learn the art & 10 years thereafter .... by "30", they should loose the appetite for international cricket, by "32" from FC cricket. Now, pacers are debuted in their "late 20s", and they are still taking couple of years to learn the trait - result is by "30", their body looses appetite for International cricket, but now they can carry in International circuits till "35", in domestics till "40" ............

 

[hur rizvi]

PAK have to debut pacers at "teen" age, couple of years to learn the art & 10 years thereafter .... by "30", they should loose the appetite for international cricket, by "32" from FC cricket. Now, pacers are debuted in their "late 20s", and they are still taking couple of years to learn the trait - result is by "30", their body looses appetite for International cricket, but now they can carry in International circuits till "35", in domestics till "40" ............

Off topic [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

Whats your prediction for tomorrow if we assume weather doesnt interfere

 

[AssassinatedDevil]

They don't. Bowlers are doing well. Inexperience and foreign conditions are working against them though. Abbas is a solid test bowler and so is Amir.

 

[blackanhyellow]

Amir - 30 test matches
Rahat - 20 matches
Abbas - 5 test matches
Faheem - 0 test matches

The leader of our pace attack (Amir) who is the most experienced, has been in terrible form, is not fully fit, and on top of that our players keep dropping catches off of him.

The second most experienced bowler is Rahat, who shouldnt be anywhere near the team. Junaid, Wahab, even Sohail khan would have been better choices. We also have Hassan on the bench, only team management knows why he is benched for Rahat.

The next two pace bowlers (Abbas and faheem) have a combined total of 5 test matches between them.

Basically there is a lot of inexperience and some bad selection.

Normally our pace attack is aided by Yasir who keeps one end quiet and takes wickets. He isnt there due to injury, his replacement is a 19 year old who has played 1 test match. Tbf Shadab has done very well but he is not Yasir's level.

 

[Asch Ali]

Mohammed Amir
Mohammed Asif
Mohammed Abbas

Doesn’t look like a bad attack, does it? But it’s too good to be true!!!

Inzamam will keep on picking Sohail Khan, Rahat Ali, Wahab Riaz. He will keep alternating when one bowler gets injured. He will never pick a talented bowler like Asif.

 

[ExplicitAI]

Why is Junaid not being looked into?

Is Wahab really worse than Rahat?

What is Hassan Ali being rested for?

Why is Hamza guy dropped, without even a game?

Why are there just 4 genuine seamers on an English tour?

Why can't that Sadaf guy get into even the A team?

Some serious questions to be answered by the PCB, Selectors and the management.

1.) Probably not a good reason but theres a bias towards Punjabi players from what I can see, he's always been benched for his whole career as I've followed him since his debut, he's world class.

2.) Both Wahab and Rahat are terrible bowlers but you're going to want a swing bowler in these conditions so Rahat is the better choice.

3.) He's bowled a lot recently and is a star player for us, we need to manage his workload, it's not every that he has to play. If this was India I would've rested Kohli even though he's the best batsman in the world because I want to see more young players and to manage Kohli's workload.

4.) Strange one, could be due to fitness, poor bowling speeds, something not right in the nets.

5.) The Test team is rebuilding but yeah we definitely needed more seamers I think.

6.) I've heard Sadaf bowls slowly and his fitness is terrible, also feeble with the bat. Don't think he'll impress Mickey Arthur.

 

[giri26]

Mohammad Amir himself will not play for long in tests, so Pakistan need to probably play Hasan Ali in tests soon. So it is Hasan Ali, Abbas and whoever the 3rd bowler is. Mohammad Asif isn't coming back, so including him in the list is not going to help.

 

[blackanhyellow]

1.) Probably not a good reason but theres a bias towards Punjabi players from what I can see, he's always been benched for his whole career as I've followed him since his debut, he's world class.

Many of our most notable players (i.e. imran khan, shahid afridi, javed miandad, Younis Khan, Rashid Latif, sarfraz ahmed) were not punjabi and they went on to captain the team.

Not to mention many other players who made big names (Umar gul, etc...).

So I think this Punjabi bias thing is a little bit exaggerated. The only Punjabi cricketers in the same popularity status category as Imran khan and Shahid afridi are shoaib akhter, wasim akram and waqar younis. Otherwise our country loves Pashtun cricketers, urdu speaking cricketers, and everyone in between as long as they perform.

Junaid kept getting dropped because he kept getting injured. Then when he came back from injury he lost pace, movement, and couldnt pick up wickets. He was brought back numerous times but he kept not being able to deliver in test cricket.

He is a good bowler, unfortunately injuries has held his career back. If he could become the bowler again that he was prior to his injuries 6-7 years ago I am sure he would get selected in a heart beat.

 

[PakLFC]

I don't think it's the worst at all but not amongst the best either. We chop and change a lot in tests for some unknown reason. Why is Hasan Ali not ahead of Rahat Ali? What happened to the likes of Sohail Khan and Aizaz Cheema amongst others? Has Umar Gul retired? A good attack is the one that plays consistently, this si something that we do in one days which is why the bowlers have created momentum in that format.

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

Struggling to take A wicket, against a poor tier 2 (probably tier 3)county side.

 

[Monsee]

^^^Did they get all the Irish tail enders out yet or did Ireland win the game by now?

 

[adzzy786]

Pakistani fans at the best. A few weeks ago I saw a thread about how we have the best attack in the world and today another thread saying the opposite. We win a match and we are the best players in the world- we loose a match and we are the worst

 

[Hawkeye]

Yep..

We need Dinda, Ishant, Pathan and then we'll become world class.

Who are Amir, Hassan Ali, Abbas, Rahat?

 

[Dingolfy]

Yep..

We need Dinda, Ishant, Pathan and then we'll become world class.

Who are Amir, Hassan Ali, Abbas, Rahat?

Ishant has won us numerous tests abroad and can bowl in 140s for longer spells whereas your trundlers couldnt even get Srilankans out.Even Dinda and an over-the-hill Pathan would have bowled better against Srilankans and newbie Irish.

 

[Rahul1]

Yep..

We need Dinda, Ishant, Pathan and then we'll become world class.

Who are Amir, Hassan Ali, Abbas, Rahat?

How about you actually look at the stats and results instead of names.

 

[Syed1]

Pakistani fans at the best. A few weeks ago I saw a thread about how we have the best attack in the world and today another thread saying the opposite. We win a match and we are the best players in the world- we loose a match and we are the worst

Only the OP is an Indian and not a Pakistani.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Last 3 years they have indeed had a poor pace attack but not as bad as OP I'd making them out to be. Only OZ,SA,ENG,IND and NZ are ahead.

 

[giri26]

I think the biggest problem for Pakistan will be their batting. Yeah the bowling has some problems but Batting will decide their fate in this series. How Pakistan handle Anderson, Broad, Stokes and Woakes will decide how they fare in this series. The way they have batted against Ireland and a LEICS attack which is not even their first choice FC attack (only Klein plays regularly I guess) is a cause for concern.

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

Yep..

We need Dinda, Ishant, Pathan and then we'll become world class.

Who are Amir, Hassan Ali, Abbas, Rahat?

Sorry bro I thought Bhubaneshwar, Shami and Bumrah form our pace attack. Btw, why did Ind come here, when it's about Pak.

Sorry if I hurt u, but it was not meant to be.

 

[mastersaan10]

problem is people in pakistan still haven't realized that a player is not good in all formats. they brought in rahat bc of psl form and haven't even given others with good stats a go. amir should not be playing tests, junaid khan is a far superior bowler as his higher number of 5ers in uae and one test in s.a shows. save amir and the viewers by dropping him from the test team bc i am tired of watching the back of length crap that starts from the first over. jk bowled way better than amir in england in ct and that is why hasan ali did well, he attacks the stump. i would save hasan ali also for shorter formats and given chances to sadaf/ other swing bowlers in england + one fast bowler. inzamam never was a good captain bcz he was there for so long and did not establish any players after he left, and so even though he has made some good calls as selectors I don't think they will benefit pakistan long term. babar azam is a worse test batsman than ua at their early stage yet he is given chances instead of being sent to domestic for the longer format.

 

[Sidilicious]

This back of the length delivery, that everyone claims amir is bowling, is it similar to Ishant's normal length? Could make sense why both beat the bat so often without getting any wickets?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Poor first class cricket structure is never going to be conducive to producing quality players, whether batsmen or bowlers. Pakistan has been lucky in the past, but times have moved on and while other countries have advanced in training and facilities, Pakistan is still stuck in time.

 

[mastersaan10]

what does that have to do with the fact that the top performers don't get selected?

 

[mastersaan10]

This back of the length delivery, that everyone claims amir is bowling, is it similar to Ishant's normal length? Could make sense why both beat the bat so often without getting any wickets?

yeah both of them probably heard great bowlers say back of good length but they only listen to back of the length part i guess

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

what does that have to do with the fact that the top performers don't get selected?

I didn't say it had anything to do with the top performers not getting selected.

 

[Lahorijat]

Because Amir is still seen as the savior, the chosen one even with average performance Maybe this celebrity culture is slowly going away with Mickey

 

[Jabo]

we are getting to that phase again where we had the likes of anwar ali & bhatti in the side... no amir and we have no one

hasan is still too raw

where are imran/sohail gone?
i thought they were meant to be somewhat good

 

[Jabo]

Because Amir is still seen as the savior, the chosen one even with average performance Maybe this celebrity culture is slowly going away with Mickey

yet he is still far better than the other players we have

you haters need to wake up
or do you want to go back to that atg bowling attack we had a few years ago with the likes of anwar ali/bhatti/talha

 

[Hawkeye]

Sorry bro I thought Bhubaneshwar, Shami and Bumrah form our pace attack. Btw, why did Ind come here, when it's about Pak.

Sorry if I hurt u, but it was not meant to be.

Shami has potential. Bhuv is decent in patches, otherwise harmless trundling. Bumrah not good enough.

 

[Dingolfy]

Shami has potential. Bhuv is decent in patches, otherwise harmless trundling. Bumrah not good enough.

Look at how they bowled in SA against SA and compare that with what your guys did against Srilanka and now against Irish and C grade county batsmen.

 

[Hawkeye]

Look at how they bowled in SA against SA and compare that with what your guys did against Srilanka and now against Irish and C grade county batsmen.

Skills and performances are not looked at in isolation. Even the greatest attacks will poorly perform against the minnows.

They're a league below in terms of skills, a bowler's mindset etc. Not Shami though.

 

[Sin Nombre]

There are legitimate reasons to not rate Bumrah but purely off results, he is the best Asian pace bowler over all formats at this time.

Test av: 25.2 (S/R 48)
ODI av: 22.5 (S/R 29)
T20I av: 20.4 (S/R 17)

vs Amir

Test av: 31.9 (S/R 66)
ODI av: 29.0 (S/R 35)
T20I av: 19.8 (S/R 17)

or Shami

Test av: 28.9 (S/R 51)
ODI av: 25.3 (S/R 27)
T20I av: 31.2 (S/R 17)


Over the 6 major stats, Amir beats Bumrah in just one (T20I average) and so does Shami (ODI S/R).

 

[Rayyman]

Bump.

Great performance from Pakistan pacers today.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

There are legitimate reasons to not rate Bumrah but purely off results, he is the best Asian pace bowler over all formats at this time.

Test av: 25.2 (S/R 48)
ODI av: 22.5 (S/R 29)
T20I av: 20.4 (S/R 17)

vs Amir

Test av: 31.9 (S/R 66)
ODI av: 29.0 (S/R 35)
T20I av: 19.8 (S/R 17)

or Shami

Test av: 28.9 (S/R 51)
ODI av: 25.3 (S/R 27)
T20I av: 31.2 (S/R 17)


Over the 6 major stats, Amir beats Bumrah in just one (T20I average) and so does Shami (ODI S/R).

Hasan Ali beats him in all formats

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Pakistan attack with Hasan Ali is amazing

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

Good performance by your bowlers.

 

[srh]

The test attack is not bad; Amir & Abbas are pretty good; replace Shadab with Yasir and Rahat with Hamza and you have 4 genuine wicket takers

told you so

 

[babajee]

Hasan is the best bowler from the subcontinent in all formats.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Usual hyperbole from the OP. Not surprised.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

If this is the worst then what is the best bowling attack?

 

[Kohli The King of Chase]

If this is the worst then what is the best bowling attack?

They all gelled together and bowled pretty full, typical english length.

But we have to watch whole series, to get a proper idea, as to where they stand.

But, nevertheless a breath taking performance, especially when England would have been motivated after the drubbing in the winter.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

They all gelled together and bowled pretty full, typical english length.

But we have to watch whole series, to get a proper idea, as to where they stand.

But, nevertheless a breath taking performance, especially when England would have been motivated after the drubbing in the winter.

I agree with you Pakistan without Hasan Ali is one of the worst bowling attacks especially if his replacement is Rahat Ali.

Current bowling unit looks much gelled and attacking.

 

[babajee]

Amir, Hasan, Abbas

Then waiting in the wings we have Shaheen Shah Afridi....

 

[Syed1]

Easily the best bowling attack in the world... Maybe Saffer might be better if the stars align on the day

 

[MMHS]

Amir, Hasan, Abbas

Then waiting in the wings we have Shaheen Shah Afridi....

The other U19 kid was more impressive to me - Abbas like potential with like 4/5" extra height and couple of yards faster.

 

[babajee]

The other U19 kid was more impressive to me - Abbas like potential with like 4/5" extra height and couple of yards faster.

Arshad Iqbal

Yeah he’s also really good. Forgot about him.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Easily the best bowling attack in the world... Maybe Saffer might be better if the stars align on the day

Rahat was damping the progress of our bowling

 

[Dingolfy]

Hasan is the best bowler from the subcontinent in all formats.

Not in Tests.Completely ineffective today in the second innings once the ball stopped swinging and was trundling due to lack of stamina.

 

[Send1983]

Lol at best bowling attack after getting team out once on helpful condition. They are not even in top 3 in my opinion.

 

[Send1983]

The other U19 kid was more impressive to me - Abbas like potential with like 4/5" extra height and couple of yards faster.

Thought only other folks here are delutional.

 

[Rahul1]

Easily the best bowling attack in the world... Maybe Saffer might be better if the stars align on the day

Hilarious but expected.

 

[babajee]

Not in Tests.Completely ineffective today in the second innings once the ball stopped swinging and was trundling due to lack of stamina.

He was clearly tired all day and not bowling at 100% intensity.

 

[MMHS]

Thought only other folks here are delutional.

What's your point? Do you even know whom I am talking about?