Why is there a difference in perception between Pakistan & India in the world?

[TikkiTaka]

This has been something that has always bugged me living abroad.

As a Pakistani traveling the world, there have been multiple times in which I've been looked at which suspicion (not just at security), with assumptions that I'm a fundamentalist just because of where I've come from. The associations are always with some kind of rogue state, terrorism, violence and religious intolerance. That we are the ones who unfairly target India in Kashmir through terrorism! (Even some Arab friends who I met believe this!)

However, we all know that India is the one committing terrorism in Pakistan (see Kulbhushan). They also treat their minorities much worse than us while we are always respectful to non-Muslims. But I've noticed that in general Indians get a pretty decent rep, and most people look at India as some sort of emerging power. Tons of Indians posting about Pakistan everywhere doesn't help one bit for example (similar to PP!)

What have we done wrong? How do we change these opinions? Any others with similar experiences.

 

[KingKhanWC]

A lot of it's do with the media coverage . Since India is basically a lappy of Zionism now, they are given much more sympathy when it comes to attacks inside their borders and are portrayed as progressive modern secularists, even though we all know they have elected an extremist government. Anyone who claims or trys to be secluar and comes across as godless the western powers who control the narrative in the global media will love.

India is also being used as lacky to attack Pakistan so in return will get a shining response from the likes of Trump or other zionist backed leaders.

However if you ask the common man or esp woman on the streets of western nations, they have more love for Pakistani's over Indians. This is my personal experience.

You will now see Pakistanis' even demeaning their own nation over India because they too want to be in love with a secular mindset and thus fall for the media picture painted for them.

 

[TikkiTaka]

A lot of it's do with the media coverage . Since India is basically a lappy of Zionism now, they are given much more sympathy when it comes to attacks inside their borders and are portrayed as progressive modern secularists, even though we all know they have elected an extremist government. Anyone who claims or trys to be secluar and comes across as godless the western powers who control the narrative in the global media will love.

India is also being used as lacky to attack Pakistan so in return will get a shining response from the likes of Trump or other zionist backed leaders.

However if you ask the common man or esp woman on the streets of western nations, they have more love for Pakistani's over Indians. This is my personal experience.

You will now see Pakistanis' even demeaning their own nation over India because they too want to be in love with a secular mindset and thus fall for the media picture painted for them.

That can't only be the reason. Simply cause India until 1991 was aligned with the USSR, and were quite anti-USA in fact. It's too easy to dismiss it all as Zionist propaganda without looking deeper.

I also don't agree with the common man statement. There's been some latent hostility I've faced that none of the Indians I know have. And this is in progressive Canada!

 

[KingKhanWC]

That can't only be the reason. Simply cause India until 1991 was aligned with the USSR, and were quite anti-USA in fact. It's too easy to dismiss it all as Zionist propaganda without looking deeper.

I also don't agree with the common man statement. There's been some latent hostility I've faced that none of the Indians I know have. And this is in progressive Canada!

I'm not sure about Canada but in the UK I can tell you those who have actually met Indians and Pakistani's do not see Indians as anything superiour or better people at all.

I would say it was the other way round. Indians have always wanted to be close to the west but as they were allies of the Russians/Soviets the Americans shunned them. Now we see Russia continues to sell weapons to India but as they have become close to America, Russia is also having better relations to Pakistan.

 

[TikkiTaka]

I'm not sure about Canada but in the UK I can tell you those who have actually met Indians and Pakistani's do not see Indians as anything superiour or better people at all.

I would say it was the other way round. Indians have always wanted to be close to the west but as they were allies of the Russians/Soviets the Americans shunned them. Now we see Russia continues to sell weapons to India but as they have become close to America, Russia is also having better relations to Pakistan.

Still doesn't explain the perception issue though. That's what worries me as a Pakistani. And this sadly doesn't just seem limited to the West but even some South-Asian countries that I go to.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Still doesn't explain the perception issue though. That's what worries me as a Pakistani. And this sadly doesn't just seem limited to the West but even some South-Asian countries that I go to.

and what kind of south-asian countries ? can u name them ? ever visited turkey , Iran etc ?
btw, where you from in pakistan ? i mean from which city ?

 

[TikkiTaka]

and what kind of south-asian countries ? can u name them ? ever visited turkey , Iran etc ?
btw, where you from in pakistan ? i mean from which city ?

Was in Malaysia and had a few incidents of discrimination. Turks seem to have a great opinion of us, but I've seen the opposite with Iranians. They seem to be much closer to Indians at least from my university experiences.

Family is from Karachi.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Was in Malaysia and had a few incidents of discrimination. Turks seem to have a great opinion of us, but I've seen the opposite with Iranians. They seem to be much closer to Indians at least from my university experiences.

Family is from Karachi.

i have visited malaysia , indonesia, turkey , iran etc etc. cant post all names here.
i havent seen any discrimination for me/a pakistani.

 

[TikkiTaka]

i have visited malaysia , indonesia, turkey , iran etc etc. cant post all names here.
i havent seen any discrimination for me/a pakistani.

Well that's fair, but I think the larger question around perception of Pakistan vs India seems to exist in most places. We need to work on our soft-power which is what wins international opinion. We don't seem to get traction on issues of concern the same way India does. And this is worrisome in the long term.

 

[Lonewarrior]

Well that's fair, but I think the larger question around perception of Pakistan vs India seems to exist in most places. We need to work on our soft-power which is what wins international opinion. We don't seem to get traction on issues of concern the same way India does. And this is worrisome in the long term.

soft-power ? i heard this kind of words from somewhere.
anyway,
if pakistan have no soft-power in your opinion thn , pakistan have strategic importance in world. which no one can deny.

 

[sjahmed23]

Indians have a better image around the world because they assimilate better than Pakistanis do and have more people in powerful positions.

 

[Pakistanian]

I've never experienced that and neither have any of my other friends with Pakistani heritage, maybe there's something off about you as an individual.

 

[humzy]

This has been something that has always bugged me living abroad.

As a Pakistani traveling the world, there have been multiple times in which I've been looked at which suspicion (not just at security), with assumptions that I'm a fundamentalist just because of where I've come from. The associations are always with some kind of rogue state, terrorism, violence and religious intolerance. That we are the ones who unfairly target India in Kashmir through terrorism! (Even some Arab friends who I met believe this!)

However, we all know that India is the one committing terrorism in Pakistan (see Kulbhushan). They also treat their minorities much worse than us while we are always respectful to non-Muslims. But I've noticed that in general Indians get a pretty decent rep, and most people look at India as some sort of emerging power. Tons of Indians posting about Pakistan everywhere doesn't help one bit for example (similar to PP!)

What have we done wrong? How do we change these opinions? Any others with similar experiences.

Its oretty obvious isn't it? There is a general muslim bias in the west.

 

[Pakistanian]

Its oretty obvious isn't it? There is a general muslim bias in the west.

Most people think Indians are muslims over here.

 

[Syed1]

That might be your experience. In my experience most people in Canada don't give a rat's behind where you come from.

 

[Traveller55]

This has been something that has always bugged me living abroad.

As a Pakistani traveling the world, there have been multiple times in which I've been looked at which suspicion (not just at security), with assumptions that I'm a fundamentalist just because of where I've come from. The associations are always with some kind of rogue state, terrorism, violence and religious intolerance. That we are the ones who unfairly target India in Kashmir through terrorism! (Even some Arab friends who I met believe this!)

Um, because there are so many terrorists originating from Pakistan that blew things up in India...Mumbai, their parliament building, etc. The whole world sees this and reacts.
Plus you guys were harboring OBL.

However, we all know that India is the one committing terrorism in Pakistan (see Kulbhushan). They also treat their minorities much worse than us while we are always respectful to non-Muslims. But I've noticed that in general Indians get a pretty decent rep, and most people look at India as some sort of emerging power. Tons of Indians posting about Pakistan everywhere doesn't help one bit for example (similar to PP!)

What have we done wrong? How do we change these opinions? Any others with similar experiences.

In what world does Pakistan treat its minorities better than India ?
In India the number of minorities is growing - be it non-Hindi speakers or non-Hindus.
In Pakistan, those numbers are sharply declining.
All the NGOs and Human rights commission rates India higher than Pakistan in terms of human rights, treatment of minorities, etc.

And lastly, India is a far more civilized power than Pakistan is. They are facing insurgency in Kashmir for 30 years, yet they've handled it far better than Pakistan, who promptly committed genocide in Bangladesh, on my people, the moment there was an insurgency.

 

[Max Mojito]

There's definitely a bias towards Indians in the west, there are multiple reasons, here are a few.

1) Indians are in powerful business positions in the west, CEO of Google, Microsoft, Nokia, Adobe, Pepsi, and many more companies are Indian.

2) Indians are in high cabinet positions in USA and Canada, Harjit Sajjan is Canada's defense minister, Nicki Haley is the US ambassador to the UN under trump, Jagmeet Singh is the leader of Canada's 3rd largest political party and is a serious contender for the next PM of Canada.

3) India's soft power in Yoga and Bollywood. Every major movie theatre in North America has the latest Bollywood movie playing and you would be surprised with the amount of westerners that watch them. There is a Yoga studio in every neighbourhood in North America, its a billion dollar industry.

4) Cuisine is another big reason, notice how every Pakistani restaurant will advertise as INDIAN and Pakistani cuisine, while an Indian owned restaurant will never do that. South Asian food is very popular these days, but Pakistan sort of gets the shaft because westerners give the credit to Indians.

5) Indians In Hollywood. This is much more subtle but notice the huge increase of Indians in Hollywood movies. Jungle Book, Life of Pi, Slumdog, Big Bang Theory, New Girl, Jurassic World, I can go on forever. Are you a fan of any of the Marvel Movies? If you watched Avengers this is what one of the characters, Alex Pierce said to the Indian leader in the movie.

"What if Pakistan marched into Mumbai tomorrow, and you knew that they were gonna drag your daughters into a soccer stadium for execution? And you could just stop it with a flick of a switch. Would you? Wouldn’t you all?"

and Avengers is a PG movie for the whole family, there is a huge anti Pakistan bias in Hollywood and western society in general, alongside a massive Pro India lobby. Don't fall for conspiracy theories, Indians are very intelligent and have worked hard to create this international image, unfortunately Pakistan hasn't put in the same effort.

 

[Syed1]

Um, because there are so many terrorists originating from Pakistan that blew things up in India...Mumbai, their parliament building, etc. The whole world sees this and reacts.
Plus you guys were harboring OBL.



In what world does Pakistan treat its minorities better than India ?
In India the number of minorities is growing - be it non-Hindi speakers or non-Hindus.
In Pakistan, those numbers are sharply declining.
All the NGOs and Human rights commission rates India higher than Pakistan in terms of human rights, treatment of minorities, etc.

And lastly, India is a far more civilized power than Pakistan is. They are facing insurgency in Kashmir for 30 years, yet they've handled it far better than Pakistan, who promptly committed genocide in Bangladesh, on my people, the moment there was an insurgency.

Your last paragraph is absolute garbage. Continue with trolling you won't be here long.

 

[Pakistanian]

There's definitely a bias towards Indians in the west, there are multiple reasons, here are a few.

1) Indians are in powerful business positions in the west, CEO of Google, Microsoft, Nokia, Adobe, Pepsi, and many more companies are Indian.

2) Indians are in high cabinet positions in USA and Canada, Harjit Sajjan is Canada's defense minister, Nicki Haley is the US ambassador to the UN under trump, Jagmeet Singh is the leader of Canada's 3rd largest political party and is a serious contender for the next PM of Canada.

3) India's soft power in Yoga and Bollywood. Every major movie theatre in North America has the latest Bollywood movie playing and you would be surprised with the amount of westerners that watch them. There is a Yoga studio in every neighbourhood in North America, its a billion dollar industry.

4) Cuisine is another big reason, notice how every Pakistani restaurant will advertise as INDIAN and Pakistani cuisine, while an Indian owned restaurant will never do that. South Asian food is very popular these days, but Pakistan sort of gets the shaft because westerners give the credit to Indians.

5) Indians In Hollywood. This is much more subtle but notice the huge increase of Indians in Hollywood movies. Jungle Book, Life of Pi, Slumdog, Big Bang Theory, New Girl, Jurassic World, I can go on forever. Are you a fan of any of the Marvel Movies? If you watched Avengers this is what one of the characters, Alex Pierce said to the Indian leader in the movie.

"What if Pakistan marched into Mumbai tomorrow, and you knew that they were gonna drag your daughters into a soccer stadium for execution? And you could just stop it with a flick of a switch. Would you? Wouldn’t you all?"

and Avengers is a PG movie for the whole family, there is a huge anti Pakistan bias in Hollywood and western society in general, alongside a massive Pro India lobby. Don't fall for conspiracy theories, Indians are very intelligent and have worked hard to create this international image, unfortunately Pakistan hasn't put in the same effort.

A lot of Hollywood studios are owned by Jewish people and they're tight with Indians, which makes sense because Pakistan is a large Muslim country that is very anti Semitic while India is pro Israel and has beef with Islam, so the propaganda will always be in favor of India. There no amount of "soft power" that can change that.

 

[Traveller55]

Your last paragraph is absolute garbage. Continue with trolling you won't be here long.

Explain to e how its garbage. Bangladesh wants independence = Pakistan refuses = Bengalis form insurgency groups = Pakistan genocides between 0.5-3 million in less than a year.

Kashmir wants independence = India refuses = Kashmiris form insurgency groups = Still on-going for 30+ years and Indians have killed 10% of the lower number, if that.

So explain to me, under near-identical scenarios, why should I not consider Indians a more humane government/power than Pakistan, when they extra-judicially kill far less in 30 years than Pakistan does inside a year or so ??

 

[Traveller55]

The only bias there is, in the west, is from a religious angle.
Westerners see Muslims/Islam as the most violent religion and there is plenty of media attention on Muslims from every corner of the muslim world committing atrocities in name of religion.

India on the other hand, enjoys the reputation of being a 'gentle civilization, the civilization that gave two of the most peaceful religions in the world-Buddhism and Jainism, while its mainstream religion is still far gentler than Islam/Christianity'.

India also enjoys an 'awe-inspiring ancient liberal civilization akin to Rome minus slavery plus caste system' in western academia.
We have Greeks, Chinese, Romans from 2000+ years ago marveling at the humanity of Indian society.

So all this factors in- they are all small/minor factors individually but taken as a whole, start to add up.

 

[humzy]

The only bias there is, in the west, is from a religious angle.
Westerners see Muslims/Islam as the most violent religion and there is plenty of media attention on Muslims from every corner of the muslim world committing atrocities in name of religion.

India on the other hand, enjoys the reputation of being a 'gentle civilization, the civilization that gave two of the most peaceful religions in the world-Buddhism and Jainism, while its mainstream religion is still far gentler than Islam/Christianity'.

Couldn't have said this better myself.

 

[Traveller55]

Another factor I will point out is from Diplomatic side of things (My wife's cousin is a career diplomat for Canada) : Diplomats see India as a responsible power, while they see Pakistan as an irresponsible rogue power.
It has two big parts :

Part a) : Pakistan sponsors so many terror outfits like LeT, JeM, Taliban, etc. India on the other hand, has zero organized terror organizations under its banner.

Part b) : India won a *HUGE* diplomatic victory in 1971: despite utterly annihilating Pakistan in battle, India did not conquer a single inch of land from either Pakistan or Bangladesh. This lend India huge credibility in the world forum - when it turned down the golden opportunity to conquer land after being militarily victorious, it re-enforced the notion that India is not an aggressive power.

Contrast that to Pakistan : they started 1947 Kashmir war, 1965 war and above all, 1999 Kargil fiasco.

Kargil is when Pakistan finally was started to be seen as a rogue nation, as it had no business sending its military in plain-clothes to occupy Indian land, then pretend they are just freedom fighters (but give out military gallantry award to the dead!) just after both nations became nuclear power.

This straight-up goading a nuclear nation, while also being a nuclear nation, pretty much destroyed any credibility Pakistan had in the international forum. Ever since then, India has been diligent in driving the point home.

 

[Pakistanian]

The only bias there is, in the west, is from a religious angle.
Westerners see Muslims/Islam as the most violent religion and there is plenty of media attention on Muslims from every corner of the muslim world committing atrocities in name of religion.

India on the other hand, enjoys the reputation of being a 'gentle civilization, the civilization that gave two of the most peaceful religions in the world-Buddhism and Jainism, while its mainstream religion is still far gentler than Islam/Christianity'.

India also enjoys an 'awe-inspiring ancient liberal civilization akin to Rome minus slavery plus caste system' in western academia.
We have Greeks, Chinese, Romans from 2000+ years ago marveling at the humanity of Indian society.

So all this factors in- they are all small/minor factors individually but taken as a whole, start to add up.

The only people who know that are nerdy academics, the average joe you meet in your class or at a local Walmart or fast food restaurant doesn't know anything about India's history and so called "gentle" civilization, the vast majority of Americans do not know anything about India. What we do know is what we learn from watching discovery and animal planet, people here think Indians are snake charmers or that they're Muslim fundamentalists. This is why after 9/11 more Indians were victims of hate crimes than either Arabs or Pakistanis.

 

[Pakistanian]

Another factor I will point out is from Diplomatic side of things (My wife's cousin is a career diplomat for Canada) : Diplomats see India as a responsible power, while they see Pakistan as an irresponsible rogue power.
It has two big parts :

Part a) : Pakistan sponsors so many terror outfits like LeT, JeM, Taliban, etc. India on the other hand, has zero organized terror organizations under its banner.

Part b) : India won a *HUGE* diplomatic victory in 1971: despite utterly annihilating Pakistan in battle, India did not conquer a single inch of land from either Pakistan or Bangladesh. This lend India huge credibility in the world forum - when it turned down the golden opportunity to conquer land after being militarily victorious, it re-enforced the notion that India is not an aggressive power.

Contrast that to Pakistan : they started 1947 Kashmir war, 1965 war and above all, 1999 Kargil fiasco.

Kargil is when Pakistan finally was started to be seen as a rogue nation, as it had no business sending its military in plain-clothes to occupy Indian land, then pretend they are just freedom fighters (but give out military gallantry award to the dead!) just after both nations became nuclear power.

This straight-up goading a nuclear nation, while also being a nuclear nation, pretty much destroyed any credibility Pakistan had in the international forum. Ever since then, India has been diligent in driving the point home.

A lot of what you say is historically inaccurate but I'm not gonna my waste time correcting you. You're definitely not half Kashmiri like you claim, I don't know why you felt you had to make up that backstory to lend you credibility loool.

 

[rahulrulezz]

EXACT question asked by my Caucasian manager. Kinda put me on spot but I think I did a decent job explaining him without getting into any HR related answers.

BUt definitely the world is now seeing the difference between the two. India has done a good job PRing itself

 

[Traveller55]

The only people who know that are nerdy academics, the average joe you meet in your class or at a local Walmart or fast food restaurant doesn't know anything about India's history and so called "gentle" civilization, the vast majority of Americans do not know anything about India. What we do know is what we learn from watching discovery and animal planet, people here think Indians are snake charmers or that they're Muslim fundamentalists. This is why after 9/11 more Indians were victims of hate crimes than either Arabs or Pakistanis.

Americans are not the only western people.
I find that there are lots of average joe-Schmoe Canadians who know that Buddhism/Jainism originate in India, India being historically a multi-cultural tolerant civilization, etc.
Also true for most average Europeans I've come across.

 

[Traveller55]

A lot of what you say is historically inaccurate but I'm not gonna my waste time correcting you. You're definitely not half Kashmiri like you claim, I don't know why you felt you had to make up that backstory to lend you credibility loool.

I definitely am and if this was the real world, my mother (who is the Kashmiri one) would yell at you for saying that.

You can cop-out of having a genuine discussion, that is fine. But I am simply stating WHY the world sees India as a poor, backwards victim while Pakistan as being a poor, backwards bully who is biting off more than it can chew (from India).

 

[Pakistanian]

Americans are not the only western people.
I find that there are lots of average joe-Schmoe Canadians who know that Buddhism/Jainism originate in India, India being historically a multi-cultural tolerant civilization, etc.
Also true for most average Europeans I've come across.

Not really. white Canadians are not less ignorant people in America, it's only some rich urban hipsters that care to know about India and Buddhism and all that history stuff. Right now the news we get from India here isn't very positive, it's about violence, caste discrimination, extreme poverty, snake charmers, wild animals attacking people in cities, persecution of women. I could go on but India is not seen that highly.

 

[Pakistanian]

I definitely am and if this was the real world, my mother (who is the Kashmiri one) would yell at you for saying that.

You can cop-out of having a genuine discussion, that is fine. But I am simply stating WHY the world sees India as a poor, backwards victim while Pakistan as being a poor, backwards bully who is biting off more than it can chew (from India).

You're obviously making that up. What's your clan if you really are half kashmiri? Don't be ashamed of who you are, making up this exotic background doesn't help your credibility.

 

[Traveller55]

You're obviously making that up. What's your clan if you really are half kashmiri? Don't be ashamed of who you are, making up this exotic background doesn't help your credibility.

Your obvious comment is as hollow as any other random internet guy telling another internet guy what they are/are not.

Perhaps you are simply struggling with the fact that not all Kashmiris toe the pro-Pakistani agenda and the ones like me, who are not full Kashmiris, have even less reasons to do so.

As per clans and such, whats the point ? If I answer, you will say I googled it. Challenging someone's identity over the internet, is a fool's quest, as silly as 'my daddy can beat up your daddy--->yes/no/yes/no'.

 

[Traveller55]

Not really. white Canadians are not less ignorant people in America, it's only some rich urban hipsters that care to know about India and Buddhism and all that history stuff. Right now the news we get from India here isn't very positive, it's about violence, caste discrimination, extreme poverty, snake charmers, wild animals attacking people in cities, persecution of women. I could go on but India is not seen that highly.

True about rich urban hipsters,but Canada has a lot more urban people than USA does. So maybe that's why Canadians are more aware of the nuances.

Ofcourse India is not seen highly, but it is seen much higher than Pakistan/Bangladesh is.

 

[Pakistanian]

Your obvious comment is as hollow as any other random internet guy telling another internet guy what they are/are not.

Perhaps you are simply struggling with the fact that not all Kashmiris toe the pro-Pakistani agenda and the ones like me, who are not full Kashmiris, have even less reasons to do so.

As per clans and such, whats the point ? If I answer, you will say I googled it. Challenging someone's identity over the internet, is a fool's quest, as silly as 'my daddy can beat up your daddy--->yes/no/yes/no'.

This is just a cop out. You're blatantly lying about who you are. I know that there are kashmiris that don't like Pakistan and some prefer India but as of right now I don't believe you're Kashmiri. There are too many holes in your backstory lol.

 

[Traveller55]

This is just a cop out. You're blatantly lying about who you are. I know that there are kashmiris that don't like Pakistan and some prefer India but as of right now I don't believe you're Kashmiri. There are too many holes in your backstory lol.

I havn't even shared my backstory, except for the fact that I am old and I live in Canada, with Kashmiri mom and Bengali dad.
You can believe whatever you wish.
But you know perfectly well that any answer I give, you will just accuse me of googling it. This is always how questions re: someone's identity over the internet goes.

 

[Snak3eye5]

This has been something that has always bugged me living abroad.

As a Pakistani traveling the world, there have been multiple times in which I've been looked at which suspicion (not just at security), with assumptions that I'm a fundamentalist just because of where I've come from. The associations are always with some kind of rogue state, terrorism, violence and religious intolerance. That we are the ones who unfairly target India in Kashmir through terrorism! (Even some Arab friends who I met believe this!)

However, we all know that India is the one committing terrorism in Pakistan (see Kulbhushan). They also treat their minorities much worse than us while we are always respectful to non-Muslims. But I've noticed that in general Indians get a pretty decent rep, and most people look at India as some sort of emerging power. Tons of Indians posting about Pakistan everywhere doesn't help one bit for example (similar to PP!)

What have we done wrong? How do we change these opinions? Any others with similar experiences.

You are either very misguided or trolling. Not sure. India does not mistreat or discriminate against its minorities. Sure there will be the odd incident here and there since India’s a huge country with a billion people. But common stats says the minorities are thriving in India. It’s own Muslim population is on track to be the country with the largest group than any other country in another decade or so. The exact opposite effect is happening in Pakistan. Pakistan was just declared by the Us to the whole world that they were on a list for religious persecution of minorities. I’m not making it up and you would know too unless you live under a rock..

 

[Traveller55]

You are either very misguided or trolling. Not sure. India does not mistreat or discriminate against its minorities. Sure there will be the odd incident here and there since India’s a huge country with a billion people. But common stats says the minorities are thriving in India. It’s own Muslim population is on track to be the country with the largest group than any other country in another decade or so. The exact opposite effect is happening in Pakistan. Pakistan was just declared by the Us to the whole world that they were on a list for religious persecution of minorities. I’m not making it up and you would know too unless you live under a rock..

The bolded part is also not true. India mistreats plenty of its minorities. Plenty of its minorities fall victim to army oppression in troubled areas and there is a distinct anti-muslim tendency growing in India.

Its not just 'idle stats amongst billions', the rates are far higher than the western world, because of lack fo law and order, along with greater levels of discrimination (due to greater illiteracy in India).

 

[hafeezrocks]

Lol Most Americans wouldn't be able to point out India on the World Map plus they consider India to be some Muslim Country.

 

[someone21]

The bolded part is also not true. India mistreats plenty of its minorities. Plenty of its minorities fall victim to army oppression in troubled areas and there is a distinct anti-muslim tendency growing in India.

Its not just 'idle stats amongst billions', the rates are far higher than the western world, because of lack fo law and order, along with greater levels of discrimination (due to greater illiteracy in India).

It's not a black and white picture. The majority of India is also mistreated from its minorities and that's growing at a rapid pace. But obviously, you won't talk about it and on this forum. And the law and order situation barring J&K, is relatively safe for all communities.

You do realize that in communal incidents, it's minorities who have often started it. That's a fact in the record books.

 

[hafeezrocks]

There's definitely a bias towards Indians in the west, there are multiple reasons, here are a few.

1) Indians are in powerful business positions in the west, CEO of Google, Microsoft, Nokia, Adobe, Pepsi, and many more companies are Indian.

2) Indians are in high cabinet positions in USA and Canada, Harjit Sajjan is Canada's defense minister, Nicki Haley is the US ambassador to the UN under trump, Jagmeet Singh is the leader of Canada's 3rd largest political party and is a serious contender for the next PM of Canada.

3) India's soft power in Yoga and Bollywood. Every major movie theatre in North America has the latest Bollywood movie playing and you would be surprised with the amount of westerners that watch them. There is a Yoga studio in every neighbourhood in North America, its a billion dollar industry.

4) Cuisine is another big reason, notice how every Pakistani restaurant will advertise as INDIAN and Pakistani cuisine, while an Indian owned restaurant will never do that. South Asian food is very popular these days, but Pakistan sort of gets the shaft because westerners give the credit to Indians.

5) Indians In Hollywood. This is much more subtle but notice the huge increase of Indians in Hollywood movies. Jungle Book, Life of Pi, Slumdog, Big Bang Theory, New Girl, Jurassic World, I can go on forever. Are you a fan of any of the Marvel Movies? If you watched Avengers this is what one of the characters, Alex Pierce said to the Indian leader in the movie.

"What if Pakistan marched into Mumbai tomorrow, and you knew that they were gonna drag your daughters into a soccer stadium for execution? And you could just stop it with a flick of a switch. Would you? Wouldn’t you all?"

and Avengers is a PG movie for the whole family, there is a huge anti Pakistan bias in Hollywood and western society in general, alongside a massive Pro India lobby. Don't fall for conspiracy theories, Indians are very intelligent and have worked hard to create this international image, unfortunately Pakistan hasn't put in the same effort.

Only an Indian takes a notice of all these stuff, keep repeating it on all online forums and feels that the West is revolving around them.

 

[akki]

Lol Most Americans wouldn't be able to point out India on the World Map plus they consider India to be some Muslim Country.

Kuch bhi ? Most americans know about india....someone doesnt represent all or mostly.......ignorance ignorance ignorance in this thread....
Its was only always a matter of time. With in 5 -10 years you will see much larger difference.

 

[Traveller55]

It's not a black and white picture. The majority of India is also mistreated from its minorities and that's growing at a rapid pace. But obviously, you won't talk about it and on this forum. And the law and order situation barring J&K, is relatively safe for all communities.

You do realize that in communal incidents, it's minorities who have often started it. That's a fact in the record books.

Which record-books ?? Show us.

Please back-up the claim that when a communal riot occurs, its the minority who are instigators 'often'.

The majority in India suffer occasionally at the hands of only one type of 'minority' - Islamists. Show us how Nagas, Oryas, Jharkhandis, etc- all of whom have been treated less than equal by the center and mainstream Hindi-belt are causing all the ruckus.

The fact that India treats its minorities better than Pakistan does not mean India treats its minorities well. There is still a long way to go- though in India's defence, its practically the only nation where the majority ethnicity isn't a 'true majority' but the largest 'minority' and the fact that it has managed to avoid sectarian genocides and civil war endemic to third world nations with poor central control, puts it in a 'not bad' state. But by no stretch of imagination, is India a model to follow for how to treat minorities.

 

[someone21]

The replies here are so wrong, so much hatred for the neighbors and zero introspection of themselves. Pakistani have simply not contributed enough to the society, they don't pay enough taxes, lack of entrepreneurs, small business and live in ghettos rather than trying to assimilate themselves.

Also, they take this victim mentality everywhere, like if they get rejected for a job, it's racism for many. It's not fair, and reason why the common people have a different opinion about Pak. Also, the woman is another key aspect, many continue to keep them obsessed in foreign countries and they not integrate themselves.

 

[hafeezrocks]

Kuch bhi ? Most americans know about india....someone doesnt represent all or mostly.......ignorance ignorance ignorance in this thread....
Its was only always a matter of time. With in 5 -10 years you will see much larger difference.

No they don't, they have much better things to deal with. There is never going to be much difference considering India is a poverty Third World Nation. That's how India is largely known in the West.

 

[akki]

One state is knonw for .......wont say much......these people even open restaurant in the name of indian restaurant....but i can gurantee...no indian would do the same....and other one is known for bollywood,yoga, oldest culture, secularism , space industry,mysterious land etc etc etc....birthplace of budhism ,hinduism sikhism...nd many more......
Image of india and ranking of india in cricket wont change over the opinions of some muslim country.

Saba qamar recently told difference between being indian and pakistani...very much summed it well.....if you need more..i will post more these related videos..
www.google.co.in/amp/indianexpress.com/article/entertainment/bollywood/saba-qamar-5029607/lite/

 

[someone21]

Which record-books ?? Show us.

Please back-up the claim that when a communal riot occurs, its the minority who are instigators 'often'.

The majority in India suffer occasionally at the hands of only one type of 'minority' - Islamists. Show us how Nagas, Oryas, Jharkhandis, etc- all of whom have been treated less than equal by the center and mainstream Hindi-belt are causing all the ruckus.

The fact that India treats its minorities better than Pakistan does not mean India treats its minorities well. There is still a long way to go- though in India's defence, its practically the only nation where the majority ethnicity isn't a 'true majority' but the largest 'minority' and the fact that it has managed to avoid sectarian genocides and civil war endemic to third world nations with poor central control, puts it in a 'not bad' state. But by no stretch of imagination, is India a model to follow for how to treat minorities.

You should check the stats book, it's all there. And "occasionally" is a very wrong word. And you are misleading the discussion by talking political representation compared with law and order.

India has a long way to go, but they are doing it's part. All minorities other than just that one group are perfectly settled in India. So the onus is also on the Muslims to show their worth, secularism and contribute to the society.

 

[akki]

Lol Most Americans wouldn't be able to point out India on the World Map plus they consider India to be some Muslim Country.

Tu hai kn hai bhai ??? Who are you to represent most americans with ?? Which survey you are talking about ?they surely know about osama bin laden i guess....there are lot more indian americans then you can even thought...
We know the image of india..and what west think of us....and most importantly what we think of us,and what we are capable of...

 

[Slog]

its negligible tbh

the negative image if there is mostly due to Muslim angle than Pakistan angle

most westerners dont give a rat's behind regarding either

 

[hafeezrocks]

Tu hai kn hai bhai ??? Who are you to represent most americans with ?? Which survey you are talking about ?they surely know about osama bin laden i guess....there are lot more indian americans then you can even thought...
We know the image of india..and what west think of us....and most importantly what we think of us,and what we are capable of...

https://m.economictimes.com/small-b...o-consider-expansion/articleshow/58194373.cms

Pretty much the general standard of image that Bharat has.

 

[Slog]

You should check the stats book, it's all there. .

Do share

 

[Slog]

Explain to e how its garbage. Bangladesh wants independence = Pakistan refuses = Bengalis form insurgency groups = Pakistan genocides between 0.5-3 million in less than a year.

Kashmir wants independence = India refuses = Kashmiris form insurgency groups = Still on-going for 30+ years and Indians have killed 10% of the lower number, if that.

So explain to me, under near-identical scenarios, why should I not consider Indians a more humane government/power than Pakistan, when they extra-judicially kill far less in 30 years than Pakistan does inside a year or so ??

0.5 to 3 million
quite a range...

 

[hafeezrocks]

its negligible tbh

the negative image if there is mostly due to Muslim angle than Pakistan angle

most westerners dont give a rat's behind regarding either

Lol yet these Indians think as if all these CEOs are some household names in the United States where Americans worship them in their homes and admire Indians as some Master Race.

Some even believe that Priyanka Chopra is the rising Star of Hollywood for whom all the Bigwigs bend over. Small people looking for validation from the Whities.

 

[akki]

https://m.economictimes.com/small-b...o-consider-expansion/articleshow/58194373.cms

Pretty much the general standard of image that Bharat has.

Do you have common sense ????? So this posts represents most americans ??Should i post 10,000 links what americans thinks of india to counter this ??
Name one thing which americans or any world can appreciate pakistan of ?
Like yoga ,karma ,bollwood ,IT industry..,taj mahal..,birth place of almost half of the religions........etc etc..
There has to be some single thing you can mention that this thing is known abroad positively by some educated people abroad about pakistan ????????????

 

[Slog]

Some even believe that Priyanka Chopra is the rising Star of Hollywood for whom all the Bigwigs bend over. Small people looking for validation from the Whities.

nail on the head.

 

[saadibaba]

I can see that OP like a sizable number of "proud" Pakistanis, is inflicted with an extreme case of amnesia thanks to his insufferable hate for India.

May I remind him that Pakistanis have worked tirelessly for decades to earn the notoriety and reputation which some posters have so dismissively blamed on our poor PR campaign.

Lets start with the mob attack and burning of the US embassy in Islamabad in 1979 which resulted in the death of two US soldiers. Move on to the kidnapping and subsequent murder by beheading of journalist Daniel Pearl in 2002. And how can anyone forget where OBL was found, living in a fortified compound less than a mile from Pakistans military academy.

Lets not even mention our glorious record of minority and human right abuses. Our marginalization and vilification of the Ahmedi sect. The indiscriminate killing of the Hazaras. The news of forced conversions of Hindus and Christians. How we as a country are one of the leaders in acid attacks on women. How the medieval blasphemy law is being abused and exploited and its so called upholders are celebrated as saints and heroes.

Not to say that India is one big shinning city on a hill, but at least look at oneself in the mirror before demanding fairness and respect from the world. Where there's smoke.....

 

[Rafa]

I can see that OP like a sizable number of "proud" Pakistanis, is inflicted with an extreme case of amnesia thanks to his insufferable hate for India.

May I remind him that Pakistanis have worked tirelessly for decades to earn the notoriety and reputation which some posters have so dismissively blamed on our poor PR campaign.

Lets start with the mob attack and burning of the US embassy in Islamabad in 1979 which resulted in the death of two US soldiers. Move on to the kidnapping and subsequent murder by beheading of journalist Daniel Pearl in 2002. And how can anyone forget where OBL was found, living in a fortified compound less than a mile from Pakistans military academy.

Lets not even mention our glorious record of minority and human right abuses. Our marginalization and vilification of the Ahmedi sect. The indiscriminate killing of the Hazaras. The news of forced conversions of Hindus and Christians. How we as a country are one of the leaders in acid attacks on women. How the medieval blasphemy law is being abused and exploited and its so called upholders are celebrated as saints and heroes.

Not to say that India is one big shinning city on a hill, but at least look at oneself in the mirror before demanding fairness and respect from the world. Where there's smoke.....

Disgusting Anti-Pakistani Post, this is an example of Immigrant Pakistanis bashing their country to fit in well among the local populace. This is like saying to the locals " hey I'm from Pakistan but I absolutely despise that place and belong more among you guys "

 

[Traveller55]

You should check the stats book, it's all there.

I find no such stat-book or such a thing. So I think you are either passing off your prejudices as facts or you will show the evidence of said book.

And "occasionally" is a very wrong word. And you are misleading the discussion by talking political representation compared with law and order.

No. I am not. Treatment of minorities is a much broader topic, it includes politics, law and order as well as glass ceilings in society due to peer to peer discrimination.

India has a long way to go, but they are doing it's part. All minorities other than just that one group are perfectly settled in India. So the onus is also on the Muslims to show their worth, secularism and contribute to the society.

Perfectly settled ? There has been rumblings of independence movements in the past as well as strong tribal rebellions as encapsulated by the red-corridor.
But yes, India is doing an OK job so far. However, people like you, who are too eager to only compare it with Pakistan or Nepal are doing the classic 'big fish in a small pond' mentality.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Have rarely interacted with pakistanis, but the indians I meet everyday, are some of the best people I have known. Always admire their tolerance for others, graciousness as hosts, sense of hygiene and cheerful disposition. Not to mention their work ethics, very hardworking and honest people. So if there is any positive image for indians worldwide, they have earned it.

 

[gani999]

Perfectly settled ? There has been rumblings of independence movements in the past as well as strong tribal rebellions as encapsulated by the red-corridor.
.

Sorry to derail the thread a bit, but as a person who has known a few people associated with the red-corridor and the naxal movement, let me set a few facts straight.

The naxalites have NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, demanded any independence from India. On the contrary, they actually want to rule all of India. It is only the government and the big business lobbies that they have problems with.
I find it hilarious when anti-India hawks in the Pakistani media call the naxal movement an 'independence' movement. It is exhibition of ignorance at its very worst, and doesn't do the image of the Pakistani media much good.

 

[Slog]

Sorry to derail the thread a bit, but as a person who has known a few people associated with the red-corridor and the naxal movement, let me set a few facts straight.

The naxalites have NEVER, I repeat, NEVER, demanded any independence from India. On the contrary, they actually want to rule all of India. It is only the government and the big business lobbies that they have problems with.
I find it hilarious when anti-India hawks in the Pakistani media call the naxal movement an 'independence' movement. It is exhibition of ignorance at its very worst, and doesn't do the image of the Pakistani media much good.

poster's not Pakistani. actually has Pakistan-phobia

 

[Yossarian]

As a Pakistani traveling the world, there have been multiple times in which I've been looked at which suspicion (not just at security), with assumptions that I'm a fundamentalist just because of where I've come from.

You do realise that unless you show your passport, or verbally inform them, or have the word "Pakistani" tattood on your forehead, 99% of those looking at you with suspicion would just see you as a brown face and wouldn't have a clue as to whether you're an Indian or a Pakistani? So do you have "Pakistani" tattood on your forehead?

 

[Pakistanian]

You do realise that unless you show your passport, or verbally inform them, or have the word "Pakistani" tattood on your forehead, 99% of those looking at you with suspicion would just see you as a brown face and wouldn't have a clue as to whether you're an Indian or a Pakistani? So do you have "Pakistani" tattood on your forehead?

True its either Indian or Hispanic for a lot of us lol.

 

[gani999]

poster's not Pakistani. actually has Pakistan-phobia

I was referring to some members of the Pakistani media, not to [MENTION=146517]Traveller55[/MENTION].

 

[R3verse Swing]

I'm amazed no one has mentioned economics.

The West is bankrupt and is cosying up to India for the sake of money - a slice of the action. What we are seeing now is merely a rendition of British rule but only this time it's via stealth.

With this in mind the media and politicians in the West will appease India by any means necessary.

Example, Modi was banned from entering the UK and USA before he was elected PM. Once PM the ban was lifted.

Pakistan's perception in the world is all down to media.

 

[Pakistanian]

So why do so many Pakistanis try to disguise themselves as Indians in the West then?

Lost count of the number of 'Indian' restaurants I've eaten in, with names like Taj Mahal, Bombay, New Delhi, Madras etc, all run by Pakistani chaps.

Lol that's a huge myth. Pakistanis don't disguise themselves as Indian, you might not be aware but many Pakistanis insist on the opposite especially when it comes to looks, unfortunately we have many racists. As for restaurants using Indian city names, haven't come across any in my state with a large Pakistani community most of them go back Lahore or Karachi, however if they advertise themselves as Indian it's to catch a larger market. It's got everything to do with economics, it's the same reason many iranian restaurants call themselves Mediterranean despite Iran being no where near it lol, it's the same reason why many Italian restaurants are run by Albanians and Gyro restaurants run by arabs lol.

 

[Pakistanian]

I wish Pakistanis didn't look down on indians for having more melanin but Indians need to stop being deluded lol.

 

[Yossarian]

So why do so many Pakistanis try to disguise themselves as Indians in the West then?

And how do they do that then? How does a Pakistani disguise himself as an Indian (short of carrying a great big placard stating "I'm not Pakistani, I'm an Indian") such that non-Sub-continentals can take one look and think "He's not a Pakistani, he's an Indian", or "He's a Pakistani trying to look like an Indian"?

Lost count of the number of 'Indian' restaurants I've eaten in, with names like Taj Mahal, Bombay, New Delhi, Madras etc, all run by Pakistani chaps.

Or perhaps the Pakistani owners want to rake in the $dosh by selling curry without having the stigma of being curry sellers?

 

[R3verse Swing]

I'm not sure where this myth that Pakistani own restaurants with Indian titles.

In London it is easy to distinguish a Pakistani owned restaurant with an Indian one. First the title typically includes words such as Lahori, Karahi, Shahi, and Punjab. Secondly the authentic Indian restaurants serve 100% vegetarian dishes.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Lol yet these Indians think as if all these CEOs are some household names in the United States where Americans worship them in their homes and admire Indians as some Master Race.

Some even believe that Priyanka Chopra is the rising Star of Hollywood for whom all the Bigwigs bend over. Small people looking for validation from the Whities.

We do not need validation from anyone. NATO violates Pakistani sovereignity with impunity and Pakistan cant do jack. That shows what Pakistan considers itself in relation to the White NATO.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I wish Pakistanis didn't look down on indians for having more melanin but Indians need to stop being deluded lol.

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSTRE64655Y20100507


World knows who is looked down upon on presenting their passports. Loling on PP wont change that.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I'm not sure where this myth that Pakistani own restaurants with Indian titles.

In London it is easy to distinguish a Pakistani owned restaurant with an Indian one. First the title typically includes words such as Lahori, Karahi, Shahi, and Punjab. Secondly the authentic Indian restaurants serve 100% vegetarian dishes.

The best Indian restaurant in London is arguably Benares and it serves both veg and non veg.

You need to practice better at lying.

 

[cricketjoshila]

And how do they do that then? How does a Pakistani disguise himself as an Indian (short of carrying a great big placard stating "I'm not Pakistani, I'm an Indian") such that non-Sub-continentals can take one look and think "He's not a Pakistani, he's an Indian", or "He's a Pakistani trying to look like an Indian"?

Or perhaps the Pakistani owners want to rake in the $dosh by selling curry without having the stigma of being curry sellers?

What is the typical stigma attached to being a Pakistani?

 

[R3verse Swing]

The best Indian restaurant in London is arguably Benares and it serves both veg and non veg.

You need to practice better at lying.

I said typically. And unless you prove Benares is owned by a Pakistani (which is the point) then your point is irrelevant as usual.

You need to brush up on your English, even though you don't live in London.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I said typically. And unless you prove Benares is owned by a Pakistani (which is the point) then your point is irrelevant as usual.

You need to brush up on your English, even though you don't live in London.

Why should Benares be owned by Pakistanis?

Why should i bother about english i do not need to find employment outside of my country. I can visit london whenever i want never been refused a visa on my passport.

You used the word "typically" to describe Pakistani restaurants.

As i said, you need to practice your lying.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Why should Benares be owned by Pakistanis?

Why should i bother about english i do not need to find employment outside of my country. I can visit london whenever i want never been refused a visa on my passport.

You used the word "typically" to describe Pakistani restaurants.

As i said, you need to practice your lying.

Read the thread before responding. People claiming Pakistanis own Indian restaurants. As I said you need to brush up on your English. You should bother about English because you are responding to a thread in English and lack of English understanding means you stand the risk of posting irrelevance as evidenced above.

Though I have no idea why you are now mentioning you could visit London etc. Fact remains you do not live in London. There's no need to justify it or get defensive about it.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Read the thread before responding. People claiming Pakistanis own Indian restaurants. As I said you need to brush up on your English. You should bother about English because you are responding to a thread in English and lack of English understanding means you stand the risk of posting irrelevance as evidenced above.

Though I have no idea why you are now mentioning you could visit London etc. Fact remains you do not live in London. There's no need to justify it or get defensive about it.

I have enough communication skills in english, seems you need some help. I can assure you, you do not decide anyone's relevance on this forum.

I have visited london and eaten at benares arguably the best indian restaurant in London, which contrary to your claims serves non veg food, though its a authentic indian restaurant.

Pakistanis own restaurants and advertise it as Indian cuisine. Thats the point made by some on this thread.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Pakistanis own restaurants and advertise it as Indian cuisine. Thats the point made by some on this thread.

Finally! Hallelujah! The penny has dropped!

Now present the evidence backing this point with respect to London.

 

[Snak3eye5]

So why do so many Pakistanis try to disguise themselves as Indians in the West then?

Lost count of the number of 'Indian' restaurants I've eaten in, with names like Taj Mahal, Bombay, New Delhi, Madras etc, all run by Pakistani chaps.

Not even this. I live in a small city in the Us. But I have come across a case while I was shopping at a convenience store and while just doing smal talk with the cashier who looked brown but had a Muslim name and the gentleman told me he was Indian and he told me some facts about India that did not add up and so it was clear as day he was not Indian and I didnt question him or anythin because “what do I care right “ ? But it allways struck me as odd on why he felt like he had to lie like that to a stranger. I personally believe there is a good majority of Pakistanis in the west who pose as Indians because of the negative stigma around Pakistan.

 

[Snak3eye5]

Saba Qamar a popular Pakistani actress pretty much summed what it is to be a Pakistani to the world with the following quotes below straight from her..


In a 49 seconds video that has gone viral on social media, Saba is heard saying, “We boast about Pakistan. We say Pakistan is this and that. But when you go out of the country and the way we are checked, I can’t tell you. I feel so humiliated the way I am frisked. I remember I want for a shoot in Tbilisi (Capital of Georgia) and my entire Indian crew was allowed to go. But I was stopped because of my Pakistani passport. I was investigated and they took my interview and then they let me go.”
Adding to it the actor said, “That day I realised this is what our position is and this is where we stand.”

 

[Reddy]

Not even this. I live in a small city in the Us. But I have come across a case while I was shopping at a convenience store and while just doing smal talk with the cashier who looked brown but had a Muslim name and the gentleman told me he was Indian and he told me some facts about India that did not add up and so it was clear as day he was not Indian and I didnt question him or anythin because “what do I care right “ ? But it allways struck me as odd on why he felt like he had to lie like that to a stranger. I personally believe there is a good majority of Pakistanis in the west who pose as Indians because of the negative stigma around Pakistan.

How did you catch him? What was he saying? normally Pakistanis can pass off as Indians as long as they don't mention anything specific about India.

 

[R3verse Swing]

As far as social media is concerned, Indians take a lot of flak. For example, BBC. Anytime BBC post an article on India which highlight the issues such as, poverty, education, public health, children, or women; the comments by non Indians living in the West reveal exactly what they think of India. The abuse is then compounded when Indians defend at all costs. Granted it happens with articles on Pakistan too, but the vitriol towards Indians is just on another level.

As for Pakistanis passed on as Indians, I can only go by what I see in London/UK, but suffice to say people are now educated enough to spot the differences. Religious artifacts, colour of skin, and accent - to name but a few.