cricketjoshila
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Do you believe that pakistan being islamic country is wrong?
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Contact the PP Team
"Will show Modi government how to treat minorities": says Imran Khan
- Thread starter Gabbar Singh
- Start date
Do you believe that pakistan being islamic country is wrong?
Pakistan was formed as an Islamic Republic. Are you suggesting India has failed as the worlds greatest secularist democracy and now needs to follow the same path as Pakistan?
Ram Shekhar
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NRI's should be the last ones to talk about living in India. It looks good from your Australian house/office but you actually have to live in India and interact with people to know these things.
Well said. I’m exhausted with the hypocrisy of the resident bjp fans of pak passion website. Almost none of them live in India like us but speak as if they know more.
JaDed
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Except for triple talaq , Muslims still have Sharia in India.
JaDed
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Answer the question he answered first, India is failing as a secular nation right now in parts of the country, South and even majority is still secular but i accept there is an issue right now.
Now answer his question.
JaDed
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In some parts yes, but in that logic are you saying founders of Pakistan were promoting hate?
To make it clear Im saying leaders and 90% of current BJP being biased towards Hindus esp upper caste ones are promoting indirect Hate.
I believe in one country one law no bias or reservations, no personal religious laws incl beef ban.
It's called freedom of religion and freedom of expression. People have weird wishes and express them. There is no rule that elected leaders won't have weird wishes. At the end, there are checks and balances in a democracy. Wishing and claiming mean squat when the Constitution and law say otherwise.
It is entirely within the remit of the legislature to pass laws banning the torture of animals.
https://www.peta.org/blog/cruelty-behind-muslim-ritual-slaughter/
Taking it further, a legislature may ban the entire consumption of meat if the electorate wants it. However, it is understandable if the electorate votes to allow the consumption of meat while banning the torture of animals.
I’ve actually answered his question and I think he knows it that’s why there is no response from him.
Now likewise are you going to ask him to answer the question I posed?
That’s where you’re wrong because in this case wishing and claiming leads to hate crimes against the minorities which is both unconstitutional and unlawful.
People given positions of power need to be mindful of how their wishes and claims will be interpreted by the extremist and the illiterate.
cricketjoshila
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Doesnot matter. There are countries with Islam as state religion, Christianity as state religion, Judaism as state religio, they are not failed democracies.
Its amusing that pakistanis have a problem if some other country has a state religion.
Again, the big boss Modi has never claimed India is a Hindu state did he. There are bound to be hate crimes when people with different ideologies coexist. Happens in the developed world as well.
Muddaser
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What you doing in Kashmir then?
As I said previously for this to happen you would need to make a 180 degree change to the constitution thereby confirming the false claims made over the last 70 years of being a secular democracy.
I have no issues with it at all, your country your choice. I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy of many Indians who have banged on about being the worlds largest secular democracy and now are okay to tow the line of an extremist organisation.
Romali_rotti
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NRI's should be the last ones to talk about living in India. It looks good from your Australian house/office but you actually have to live in India and interact with people to know these things.
I asked you a specific question and you have no proof.
:
JaDed
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He might not so you are saying the formation of Pakistan was a biased one?
JaDed
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Yes but when differentiation between animals it’s incorrect, Im a vegetarian and telling you that ban all meat then including chicken pork mutton.
Banning something biased towards a religion is not Uniform law.
JaDed
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RSS was formed after Muslim League , two parties or organizations that are biased and made on hate and cannot bear other communities.
People talking against BJP should also condemn Muslim league if not you are being as biased as the BJP lovers.
Secularism is absolute , the very reason BJP has so many seats is because Rajiv Gandhi.
On country one Law!
People talking against BJP should also condemn Muslim league if not you are being as biased as the BJP lovers.
Secularism is absolute , the very reason BJP has so many seats is because Rajiv Gandhi.
On country one Law!
SakunaPataka
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That would be the case if the rest of the animal kingdom was protesting and we were duty bound to treat them equally.
This issue is very simple to resolve. The Govt is duty bound to protect religious sentiments of people. This it has to do equally and impartially. There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the cow is a sacred entity in Hinduism and this is not some obscure thing.
So unless cow protection infringes on human rights it supersede everything else (more or less).
I did not say ban beef but not poultry. I am okay with banning both or neither. However, if the government bans all form of animal killing that may be regarded as torture, that is also okay with me. The way cows are killed in the halal process looks like torture to me when I watch the video.
In the US you will get into trouble if you kill and eat dogs but not cows or chicken. Not that this is an ideal situation and just because the US does it doesn't make it right, but the point is that culturally we favor some animals over others all over the world.
Muslim was minority in Majority Hindu.
Partition or no Partition, Majority of South Asia, vastly uneducated at that time would have tried to flex its muscle against minority Muslims.
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What?
Founder of Pakistan were in minority.
It seems you are trying too hard this time.
BJP politics is hate driven, there is no ifs and butts about it.
Hindu or Muslim are not evil words. You seem to have hinduphobia like people in the west have islamophobia. Being Hindu or Muslim is no crime and wanting a Hindu state or Muslim state is no crime either. But at the end of the day, the law, constitution matter. Wanting a Hindu state doesn't mean India will become one. Doesn't mean Muslims will be killed. Pakistan is an Islamic country. Doesn't mean Hindus will be killed. The odd instances like cow lynching or blasphemy cases in both countries are rare.
Hinduphobia? No, rather extremists version of Hinduphobia, as anyone with humanity should.
But, we all notice how you are trying your best to sugarcoat the violence that is promoted by the BJP before the election and continue to do so after the election.
Absolutely nothing wrong in wanting Hindu state but absolutely everything wrong to elect extremist backward thinking politician, remember mostly Indian Hindu elected them.
JaDed
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So why not be sensitive to Jains then, ban all meat then
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JaDed
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There is no ifs with BJP and neither MUSLIM league.
This is not about minority, its about bias and promoting hate are you saying non Muslims didn’t die during partition?
JaDed
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Muslims would be equal in number in North India, South India hardly had much riots, in reality look what happened when Hyderabad’s forces went on killing spree against Hindus, so lets talk equally here.
JaDed
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Yeah this is not culture but religion.Uniform law can occur only if there is no bias towards any one religion.
SakunaPataka
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The only thing is they dont worship them. But I agree with you on that. Infact science backs them in the sense that cattle farming is one of the main causes of global warming which actually kills people.
Culture and religion are often difficult to separate.
Consideration and kindness towards animals is an essential part of Indian culture. I believe you are a Sikh, and (I believe) your religion only sanctions the killing of animals for food by <i>jhatka</i>. This is consistent with the ancient Indian culture of consideration and kindness towards animals.
Just because the torture of animals goes against the majority religion, it shouldn't become a "religious matter" on which the government can take no action.
I think I understand your concern that the motivation here is anti-Islam rather than consideration and kindness towards animals. It is impossible to decide which it is, and I would say both motivations are at work to some extent.
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Abdullah719
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Mob Violence Against Christians on the Rise in India
NEW DELHI — As many as 159 cases of mob violence against the minority Christian community were recorded in the last 8 months of this year. Since the beginning of this year, with UP topping the list, around 218 incidents of violence were recorded in 243 days of 2019. This was revealed on Friday by the Alliance Defending Freedom India (ADF India) in its latest report which has been tracking hate violence against Christians in the country.
The mob violence and attacks on the weaker sections (Dalits) and religious minorities including Muslims and Christians have become commonplace since the BJP-led government came to power at the Center in May 2014 first time. Releasing the report, ADF India said the violence against Christian community has a pattern with the help of Police mob attack worship places while the prayer is going on.
Speaking to Caravan Daily, Development Director of ADF India, A C Michael said modus operandi followed in all cases of mob violence against Christians as they showed same pattern.
“A mob accompanied by the police arrives at the prayer service, shouts slogans and beats up the members of the congregation including women and children and then the pastors are arrested or detained by the police under the false allegation of conversion,” Michael said who is also a former Member of Delhi Minorities Commission.
It will not be exaggeration if we say that many Christians are experiencing restrictions on their freedom to practice their faith, in one way or the other, in a large part of India’s territory, that is in 23 states out of 29 states of India, he said.
According to the report, Uttar Pradesh leads the chart, with the incidences of mob-violence against Christians, 51 incidents followed by 41 in Tamil Nadu, 24 in Chhattisgarh, 17 in Jharkhand, 16 in Karnataka, 14 in Telangana, 12 in Andhra Pradesh, 9 in Maharashtra, 6 in Haryana, 5 in Bihar, 4 in Delhi, 3 in Odisha, 2 each in Himachal Pradesh, Kerala, Puducherry, Rajasthan and West Bengal, 1 each in Goa, Gujarat, J&K, Madhya Pradesh, Punjab, and Tripura.
Michael also alleged that the police and mob also took friendly media along to ensure publication of their side of story.
What’s more important to note is that till today none of these false allegations of conversions have ever been sustained in a court of law. In fact, almost all of the arrested pastors have either been released on bail or acquitted as the police or the unruly crowds have failed to provide evidence of forceful conversions, he emphasized .
The report highlights that, “Since the beginning of this year, 218 incidents of violence against Christians, in 243 days of 2019, have been reported on UCF toll-free helpline number 1800-208-4545. Out of 218 incidents of violence against Christians, 159 incidents are in the form of intimidation and threats by a vigilante mob. On an average it counts for 27 incidents in a month in last 8 months, as against 20 incidents a month in 2018. There were 121 women and 181 children who were injured in these mob violence incidents.”
Accusing the collusion between Law and Order machinery and the violent Hindutva mobs, Michael said police refused to file FIRs of the incidents and it has become a trend while local political leaders also giving patronage to perpetrators.
“The trend of not filing FIRs against perpetrators of violence continues as out of these 218 incidents only 25 FIRs are registered against them so far. This shows the tacit understanding between the perpetrators and the police. Sometimes complaints or FIRs are not filed due to fear of reprisals,“ he pointed out.
According to report graph of violence against Christians has been on the steady rise in the country.
“Year after year, since 2014, the attacks on Christians have increased consistently like 292 in 2018, 240 in 2017, 208 in 2016, 177 in 2015 and 147 in 2014. As a matter of fact, according to the World Watch List of 50 countries, India is the 10th most dangerous country in the world to live in for Christians as against 28th in the year 2014.”
Expressing serious concern over the behaviour of the Law and order machinery and the criminal justice system, Tehmina Arora, Director of ADF India said it is worrying to see these horrendous acts of mobocracy still continuing even after a slew of directions given to the government by the Supreme Court Bench led by former CJI Dipak Misra.
Urging that nobody should be persecuted because of his /her faith, Tehmina Arora told Caravan Daily that unless the political forces (without naming the BJP and other Hindutva outfits) stop encouraging the people from taking power into their own hands, the ‘mob’ culture is likely to become a norm.
https://caravandaily.com/mob-violence-against-christians-on-the-rise-in-india/
NEW DELHI — As many as 159 cases of mob violence against the minority Christian community were recorded in the last 8 months of this year. Since the beginning of this year, with UP topping the list, around 218 incidents of violence were recorded in 243 days of 2019. This was revealed on Friday by the Alliance Defending Freedom India (ADF India) in its latest report which has been tracking hate violence against Christians in the country.
The mob violence and attacks on the weaker sections (Dalits) and religious minorities including Muslims and Christians have become commonplace since the BJP-led government came to power at the Center in May 2014 first time. Releasing the report, ADF India said the violence against Christian community has a pattern with the help of Police mob attack worship places while the prayer is going on.
Speaking to Caravan Daily, Development Director of ADF India, A C Michael said modus operandi followed in all cases of mob violence against Christians as they showed same pattern.
“A mob accompanied by the police arrives at the prayer service, shouts slogans and beats up the members of the congregation including women and children and then the pastors are arrested or detained by the police under the false allegation of conversion,” Michael said who is also a former Member of Delhi Minorities Commission.
It will not be exaggeration if we say that many Christians are experiencing restrictions on their freedom to practice their faith, in one way or the other, in a large part of India’s territory, that is in 23 states out of 29 states of India, he said.
According to the report, Uttar Pradesh leads the chart, with the incidences of mob-violence against Christians, 51 incidents followed by 41 in Tamil Nadu, 24 in Chhattisgarh, 17 in Jharkhand, 16 in Karnataka, 14 in Telangana, 12 in Andhra Pradesh, 9 in Maharashtra, 6 in Haryana, 5 in Bihar, 4 in Delhi, 3 in Odisha, 2 each in Himachal Pradesh, Kerala, Puducherry, Rajasthan and West Bengal, 1 each in Goa, Gujarat, J&K, Madhya Pradesh, Punjab, and Tripura.
Michael also alleged that the police and mob also took friendly media along to ensure publication of their side of story.
What’s more important to note is that till today none of these false allegations of conversions have ever been sustained in a court of law. In fact, almost all of the arrested pastors have either been released on bail or acquitted as the police or the unruly crowds have failed to provide evidence of forceful conversions, he emphasized .
The report highlights that, “Since the beginning of this year, 218 incidents of violence against Christians, in 243 days of 2019, have been reported on UCF toll-free helpline number 1800-208-4545. Out of 218 incidents of violence against Christians, 159 incidents are in the form of intimidation and threats by a vigilante mob. On an average it counts for 27 incidents in a month in last 8 months, as against 20 incidents a month in 2018. There were 121 women and 181 children who were injured in these mob violence incidents.”
Accusing the collusion between Law and Order machinery and the violent Hindutva mobs, Michael said police refused to file FIRs of the incidents and it has become a trend while local political leaders also giving patronage to perpetrators.
“The trend of not filing FIRs against perpetrators of violence continues as out of these 218 incidents only 25 FIRs are registered against them so far. This shows the tacit understanding between the perpetrators and the police. Sometimes complaints or FIRs are not filed due to fear of reprisals,“ he pointed out.
According to report graph of violence against Christians has been on the steady rise in the country.
“Year after year, since 2014, the attacks on Christians have increased consistently like 292 in 2018, 240 in 2017, 208 in 2016, 177 in 2015 and 147 in 2014. As a matter of fact, according to the World Watch List of 50 countries, India is the 10th most dangerous country in the world to live in for Christians as against 28th in the year 2014.”
Expressing serious concern over the behaviour of the Law and order machinery and the criminal justice system, Tehmina Arora, Director of ADF India said it is worrying to see these horrendous acts of mobocracy still continuing even after a slew of directions given to the government by the Supreme Court Bench led by former CJI Dipak Misra.
Urging that nobody should be persecuted because of his /her faith, Tehmina Arora told Caravan Daily that unless the political forces (without naming the BJP and other Hindutva outfits) stop encouraging the people from taking power into their own hands, the ‘mob’ culture is likely to become a norm.
https://caravandaily.com/mob-violence-against-christians-on-the-rise-in-india/
When did I say that.
Do you really believe that Hindu's of India would have not try to control Muslim minority?
Gabbar Singh
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Why did the PTI not support this bill?
https://www.outlookindia.com/newsscroll/pakistan-tells-minorities-they-cant-be-pm-president/1633476
https://www.outlookindia.com/newsscroll/pakistan-tells-minorities-they-cant-be-pm-president/1633476
IMMY69
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The above tweets by Indian Cricketers are a clear and irrefutable example of how brainwashed and extremist some Indians have become.
Itachi
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Can a non Muslim person be put as prime minister or president of Pakistan?
Swashbuckler
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Mountain of difference between PTI's words and actions. I don't think PTI fans here are objective. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] and [MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION] may sometimes go overboard but they have a point, creating a cult in politics is self destructive, be it in USA, Turkey, Brazil, India or Pakistan. It is also so easy to make the right noises from the opposition ranks.
cricketjoshila
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Or may be they support their country and not Pakistan.
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ISLAMABAD: The Supreme Court on Thursday decided to constitute a special bench for the implementation of its 2014 judgement on the protection of minority rights and promotion of a culture of religious and social tolerance.
Subsequently, a three-judge Supreme Court bench, headed by Justice Umar Ata Bandial, referred the matter to Chief Justice Asif Saeed Khosa for his consideration to constitute the implementation bench.
The SC bench had taken up a case relating to the rights of minorities and asked the federal and provincial governments to furnish before the court monthly reports highlighting steps taken to ensure the rights of the minorities.
Additional Advocate General for Punjab Chaudhry Faisal Hussain represented the province.
The 2014 verdict was seen as providing basis for curbing increasing intolerance and bigotry in society
In what was billed as a verdict that may correct the course of increasing intolerance, hate and bigotry in society, the Supreme Court had in 2014 directed the law enforcing agencies to promptly register criminal cases for desecrating the places of worship of minorities or on violation of any of their rights guaranteed under the law.
Authored by former chief justice Tassaduq Hussain Jillani, the verdict had ordered its court office to open a separate file to be placed before a three-judge bench for ensuring that the judgement was given effect to in letter and spirit. The bench will be free to entertain complaints or petitions related to violation of the fundamental rights of minorities in the country.
The verdict had asked the federal government to ensure that hate speech on social media was discouraged and delinquents were brought to justice.
The verdict had come on a suo motu initiated on the Sept 22, 2013 unfortunate Peshawar church bomb attack in which 81 persons died.
The 32-page judgement had also highlighted the need for promoting a culture of religious and social tolerance by developing appropriate curricula at the school and college levels, besides constituting a task force for developing a strategy of religious tolerance and establishing a special police force with professional training to protect the places of worship of minorities.
It asked for the constitution of a national council for minority rights which should be tasked with monitoring practical realisation of the rights and safeguards provided to the minorities under the Constitution and the law.
The council should also be mandated to frame policy recommendations for safeguarding and protecting minorities’ rights by the federal and provincial governments.
The judgement was clear in directing the federal and provincial governments to ensure the enforcement of the policy directives regarding reservation of quota for minorities in all services.
Referring to the desecration of places of worship of minorities, the judgement had regretted that such incidents could be warded off if the authorities concerned had taken preventive measures at the appropriate time.
The inaction on the part of the law enforcement agencies was on account of the lack of proper understanding of the relevant law, the judgement had said.
The verdict had also regretted the general lack of awareness about the rights of minorities among the people and those entrusted with enforcement of law were also not fully sensitised to this issue either. “It needs to be reiterated that under the Constitution minorities have a special status,” the verdict emphasised.
On Thursday, PTI leader Dr Ramesh Kumar Vankwani informed the apex court that none amongst the minorities had been appointed chairman of the Evacuee Trust Property Board, contrary to earlier directives of the court, adding that still 15 to 23 members of the ETPB were Muslim.
The court, however, told Dr Vankwani that being in the government he should have fulfilled the demands through the government.
During the hearing, Justice Bandial observed that the Kartarpur Corridor was a huge development, adding that everybody had the right to worship as per their religion.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1508878/sc-to-constitute-special-bench-for-protection-of-minority-rights
Subsequently, a three-judge Supreme Court bench, headed by Justice Umar Ata Bandial, referred the matter to Chief Justice Asif Saeed Khosa for his consideration to constitute the implementation bench.
The SC bench had taken up a case relating to the rights of minorities and asked the federal and provincial governments to furnish before the court monthly reports highlighting steps taken to ensure the rights of the minorities.
Additional Advocate General for Punjab Chaudhry Faisal Hussain represented the province.
The 2014 verdict was seen as providing basis for curbing increasing intolerance and bigotry in society
In what was billed as a verdict that may correct the course of increasing intolerance, hate and bigotry in society, the Supreme Court had in 2014 directed the law enforcing agencies to promptly register criminal cases for desecrating the places of worship of minorities or on violation of any of their rights guaranteed under the law.
Authored by former chief justice Tassaduq Hussain Jillani, the verdict had ordered its court office to open a separate file to be placed before a three-judge bench for ensuring that the judgement was given effect to in letter and spirit. The bench will be free to entertain complaints or petitions related to violation of the fundamental rights of minorities in the country.
The verdict had asked the federal government to ensure that hate speech on social media was discouraged and delinquents were brought to justice.
The verdict had come on a suo motu initiated on the Sept 22, 2013 unfortunate Peshawar church bomb attack in which 81 persons died.
The 32-page judgement had also highlighted the need for promoting a culture of religious and social tolerance by developing appropriate curricula at the school and college levels, besides constituting a task force for developing a strategy of religious tolerance and establishing a special police force with professional training to protect the places of worship of minorities.
It asked for the constitution of a national council for minority rights which should be tasked with monitoring practical realisation of the rights and safeguards provided to the minorities under the Constitution and the law.
The council should also be mandated to frame policy recommendations for safeguarding and protecting minorities’ rights by the federal and provincial governments.
The judgement was clear in directing the federal and provincial governments to ensure the enforcement of the policy directives regarding reservation of quota for minorities in all services.
Referring to the desecration of places of worship of minorities, the judgement had regretted that such incidents could be warded off if the authorities concerned had taken preventive measures at the appropriate time.
The inaction on the part of the law enforcement agencies was on account of the lack of proper understanding of the relevant law, the judgement had said.
The verdict had also regretted the general lack of awareness about the rights of minorities among the people and those entrusted with enforcement of law were also not fully sensitised to this issue either. “It needs to be reiterated that under the Constitution minorities have a special status,” the verdict emphasised.
On Thursday, PTI leader Dr Ramesh Kumar Vankwani informed the apex court that none amongst the minorities had been appointed chairman of the Evacuee Trust Property Board, contrary to earlier directives of the court, adding that still 15 to 23 members of the ETPB were Muslim.
The court, however, told Dr Vankwani that being in the government he should have fulfilled the demands through the government.
During the hearing, Justice Bandial observed that the Kartarpur Corridor was a huge development, adding that everybody had the right to worship as per their religion.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1508878/sc-to-constitute-special-bench-for-protection-of-minority-rights
cricketjoshila
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But he will go to UNGA and talk about minority rights.
JaDed
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That’s what I was saying that day as well, one can never trust a politician, he might say one thing and actions imply a different one.
We can’t judge the truth by his speeches.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">There is no legal bar to a Muslim becoming president in India, USA, France etc. But the people who are concerned about Islamophobia in the West just rejected a Christian lawmaker’s appeal to allow non-Muslims to be able to run for high office in Pakistan. Smh! <a href="https://t.co/Gq3PPMoNR4">pic.twitter.com/Gq3PPMoNR4</a></p>— Kashif N Chaudhry (@KashifMD) <a href="https://twitter.com/KashifMD/status/1179746937165275138?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 3, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Lonewarrior
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So if India decides it would have a state religion “Hinduism” & would bar Muslims from high office, you’d stop complaining about Hindutva extremism? <br><br>Because that’s an easy solution for India to help calm your worries. <a href="https://t.co/b1IT2aPaGa">https://t.co/b1IT2aPaGa</a></p>— Kashif N Chaudhry (@KashifMD) <a href="https://twitter.com/KashifMD/status/1180597236897501193?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 5, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Lonewarrior
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absolutely, go ahead.
I hope you would stop showing concerns about treatment of minorities in india after that lol
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Lonewarrior
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maybe, maybe not. but it will prove that the Two nation theory was right, and india changed it stance after 70 years from its "secular state" bullcrap.
Take a stance. So still you are not sure about two nation theory
Mamoon
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Two Nation Theory was done and dusted after the East Pakistan liberation movement. It exposed the idealistic flaws and assumption in the belief that religion is a strong enough binding force to overcome cultural difference, which is not true at all.
Slog
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Let it happen first.
And obv not being eligible for the head of government and being oppressed are separate things.
Most non Muslims in Pakistan will admit that they have many problems but beinghead of government isn’t one of them
Slog
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Not really.
For two nation theory to be done and dusted East Pakistan should have been absorbed by india.
The Bengali muslims still preferred to see themselves as a separate nation and hence became a country independent from India.
Itachi
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What about Ahmadis? Can they become head of the gov?
Itachi
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In short, two nation theory based upon religion did fail. Religion didn't have enough glue to hold that much of people.
Mamoon
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Hindus didn’t believe in the TNT, Muslims did. And the Indian subcontinent ended up as three nations which proved that there was no such thing as two nations.
The Muslim League had a very idealistic impression of ummah and Muslim unity. They should have seen the writing on the wall after several eminent Indian Muslims aligned with Congress and the Khilafat Movement failed.
They failed to consider that religion is not a strong enough unifying force to overcome cultural and ethnic differences. The Indian subcontinent was never two nations. It was a collection of several nations that should have ideally been divided into several small nations like Europe.
Slog
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Lonewarrior
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i stand what i said, pakistani believes in Two nation theory.
Lonewarrior
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a Non-Muslims was a Chief justice of pakistan, which is a part of pillars of the State.
and a Non-Muslims can become a COAS and ISI Chief which is a part of establishment and State and more power thn a PM or President unconstitutionally.
President usually is a ceremonial office. he has no power. i would say a Chief justice of Pakistan has more power thn a President and PM of pakistan in some aspects.
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JaDed
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Are you saying in that logic wherever Muslims are more in number there would be two nations?
Itachi
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In the second post, I asked about Ahmedis. What's the rule regarding Ahmedis?
JaDed
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Then this bill shouldn't matter why block it, also no one would be able to vote any person from minority religion to that post anyway.. so passing of this bill would had hardly changed the reality, it was just for token PR, and IK could had shown he is a secular person.
Itachi
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More over, you are telling me ISI has more power and influence "unconstitutionally". There's never a question about unconstitutionally.
The system itself forbids non Muslims from putting in the two of the top most positions. The bills for amendment is getting rejected. If president and pm is ceremonial, then why the bill got rejected?
If you say since, Pakistan is an Islamic country, then its valid. But if that is the case, then you shouldn't point fingers towards another nation about minority rights since, constitutionally Pakistan discriminates minority.
Slog
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that is the stupidest thing ive read in a while.
India would lose its right to comment on most things in the world by that logic.
Also... asides from the human rights aspect, its totally fine to call out a so-called secular country for its lack of adherence to secular ideals.
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Lonewarrior
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becoz IK maybe a secular person, but state of the pakistan isnt. its Islamic republic of Pakistan, and theoratically in the Islamic State you cant have the head of the state as non-muslim. if things gt change in future and pakistan become a secular state, thn no one will raise any objection. also he doesnt have 3/4th majority in the parliament to add this amendment in the constitution.
you are mixing up two different issue. india claimed to be a secular state since 47, Pakistan didnt. we point fingers on you becoz you claimed to be secular state.
any member of the parliament can present any bill. even for Gay marriage etc. which everyone knw its going to be rejected anyway. becoz you need 3/4th majority votes to add any new amendment in the constitution. IK doesnt have majority.
there are 3 pillars of every democracy, Judiciary, Executive, Legislature ,
in judiciary muslim or non-muslim can become justice or chief justice of pakistan.
Legislature , we have many non-muslims as Legislature in assembly and senate.
Executive, we have many non-muslims as ministers in govt.
Lonewarrior
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according to Pakistani constitution, Ahmedis are considered to be as non-muslims. thre are many ahmedis in govt and bureaucracy and in law enforcement including Pak Army, serving as General till this day.
Lonewarrior
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thre are more chances that we will have a Sikh or Hindu COAS or JCOS or ISI Head in Pakistan in future which hold more power unconstitutionally. thres a Sikh Major whos the candidate to become next and first Lieutenant colonel and colonel from non-muslim community.
cricketjoshila
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Its hypocrisy for a islamic country to even talk about secularism, let alone call out anyone.
First adhere to secularism then talk about it.
Going by the same token, isn’t it hypocrisy for you to literally talk about anything considering how you were proven wrong and just disappeared from the thread about IAF killing six of their own soldiers in state of panic? At least have integrity to admit you were wrong.
Why don’t you post in that thread and try to explain why IAF hid this news for 7 months? Shouldn’t you adhere to the basic principles of integrity before trying to lecture people about hypocrisy?
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Job is to spin it not to be factual.
Job is to create doubts not to be accurate
Job is to promote fascism while veiled behind as Secular democracy.
LOL at Secular ahahahaha
Lonewarrior
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a little bit correction, in past thre were colonels and generals from non-muslim community in armed forces . the sikh will be the first one.
Lonewarrior
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we all are missing your absence in this thread,
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?282258-IAF-chief-says-India-s-Mi-17-chopper-shot-down-in-Kashmir-by-its-own-missile-in-Feb-Update-39
Itachi
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you are not grasping the point. Let me clarify.
There are two kinds discrimination.
1. Systemic discrimination which the system promotes itself impacting the system i.e. the whole nation. Discrimination in constitution is systemic discrimination.
2. Disorganized discrimination which is not promoted by the system rather, it is some localized groups who does promote though, it isn't widespread as other parts of the system is free from it.
What India has is, disorganized discrimination. For example, exclude bihar and UP and you won't see much discrimination in the rest of the india with regards to religion/minority. Moreover, secular doesn't guarantee equal rights in every corner. However, secular does ensure that if and when discrimination occurs, anyone can claim their right based upon the constitution so that he/she isn't discriminated due to coming from minority. If by somehow, a muslim is prevented from being a PM in india due to religion only, he can pursue the case legally in order to fight for his right. That's what secularism guarantees.
On the other hand, what Pakistan has is, systemic discrimination. No non muslim can become a PM or President of Pakistan. Even if he/she tries to fight legally, he has a lost case since, even the supreme court will honor the constitution and will forbade him running for those two top posts. He can't even fight only because he is from a particular community which is non muslim.
That's why, systemic discrimination is much dangerous than disorganized ones because, when the system itself promotes it, you already are fighting a losing battle.
Lonewarrior
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you called it Systemic discrimination, its fine with us becoz we never claimed to be a secular state. we are an Islamic State since 47.
the onus is upon those countries who called themselves as secular state and practice Disorganized discrimination.
Itachi
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The system doesn't discriminate. It's a number of people that does discrimination.
It's same way of saying, since some Muslims are terrorists, hence Islam promotes terrorism. But we both know that, that isn't the case here. Isn't it?
Lonewarrior
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debatable, btw your comparison about secular state vs islamic state just like comparing apples and oranges.
Itachi
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No. It's not apples and oranges.
Islam and secularism are both ideology.
In both ideology, the action of a small group doesn't denote the overall goal of that ideology.
Hence,
If a person in India discriminating implies secularism i.e. Equity in India is fake
Same way, if a Muslim man is indulge in terrorist activity, then promoting of peace by Islam is also fake.
If one is true, the other is true also since they share the components.
If one is false, other one is false too.
You can't discriminate between two similar aspects of two ideologies itself.
cricketjoshila
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I said let the IAF report come and then we can talk.
IAF report says it was a blue on blue kill and thats that.
Who am i to deny what the IAF says.
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Slog
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It is not. As long as it is not claiming to be secular (and then doing things which go against secularist ideals) it is fine
So you admit that IAF hid this for political reasons? Or does it take them almost a year to figure out that they shot down their own helicopter?
Anyways i don’t want to derail this thread, why aren’t you posting on that thread, you have been quoted multiple times there.
ReverseHit
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Lol what a desi thing to say "main dikhaonga tumhe..."
I doubt one man can do much to change the mindset of the population but at least if he ensures that local law enforcement is carried out as it should be, maybe, MAYBE some Hindu girls do not get abducted and forcefully converted, or Hindu temples are not vandalized.
I doubt one man can do much to change the mindset of the population but at least if he ensures that local law enforcement is carried out as it should be, maybe, MAYBE some Hindu girls do not get abducted and forcefully converted, or Hindu temples are not vandalized.
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