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Your thoughts on Jasprit Bumrah?

Ahh yes, who can forget the Sir Ravindra Jadeja days

That's the biggest transformation for sure. Rohit was still rated highly in India as a batting talent, before he cracked the code in international cricket
Rohit was mocked as Mr Talent & 2 minute noodles

But he changed the game after 2015
 
Ahh yes, who can forget the Sir Ravindra Jadeja days

That's the biggest transformation for sure. Rohit was still rated highly in India as a batting talent, before he cracked the code in international cricket
Msd should be credited for both rohit and jadeja.after 84 odis, rohit avg was 28.jadeja sucessfully screwed the team in 3 imp matches in his first 6 months itself.Indian fans used to hurl abuses at both a lot.
 
Msd should be credited for both rohit and jadeja.after 84 odis, rohit avg was 28.jadeja sucessfully screwed the team in 3 imp matches in his first 6 months itself.Indian fans used to hurl abuses at both a lot.
Yes, promoting Rohit to the opening slot in the 2013 CT was the turning-point
 
@Devadwal check the initial pages of this thread to check what fans here were predicting about Bumrah. They were just like you - clueless.
 
Fast Bowlers who made debut after 2010

Rabada 73 tests 17 fifers
Bumrah 51 tests 16 fifers
Starc 100 tests 16 fifers
Cummins 71 tests 14 fifers
Southee 101 tests 14 fifers
Hazlewood 76 tests 13 fifers
Philanders 64 tests 13 fifers
Boult 78 tests 10 fifers
Roach 80 tests 10 fifers
 
He is a box office player and makes the game exciting to watch. World cricket needs players like him. Every ball is an event when he is at his best
 
I think it is fair to accept that Bumrah is quite comfortably the best bowler of this generation. His overall avg, overall away avg, skill set and performance vs the best team,i.e. Australia puts him a league above Rabada and Cummins. Imagine him playing his home matches in Australia or South Africa or England, he would have got used too playing there and picked plenty more wickets.
 
tbf nobody expected Bumrah to be so good. Most people ( including myself ) thought he wud be poor man's Malinga. Useful only in white ball cricket

But he surprised everyone by proving himself in test cricket. Great example of how a player evolved over the years & improved himself
I never expected him to play even Tests given his awkward action which looked highly injury prone on first sight. Over a period learnt this action works for him. Action is only half. Accuracy , consistency, planning all these things are separate.
 
I think it is fair to accept that Bumrah is quite comfortably the best bowler of this generation. His overall avg, overall away avg, skill set and performance vs the best team,i.e. Australia puts him a league above Rabada and Cummins. Imagine him playing his home matches in Australia or South Africa or England, he would have got used too playing there and picked plenty more wickets.
His ability to keep learning is what makes him special. I still remember his first test in SA michael holding on air said bumrah will not last in test as he can’t bowl the out swinger. Few months later in england he was bowling outswingers
 
There are guys like Bhuvaneswar, Deepak Chahar conveniently get injured outside IPL window and make sure they don't get picked for internationals. No inclination to play tests. Deepak made 30 crores or something just in 2 or 3 seasons. Bumrah will make far more than that. HE doesn't ahve to play any tests to make money. For the rest of his career he can play for mumbai indians and accumulate wealth. Inspite of that he cares for his test legacy. He fights through injuries and wants to shine in Tests. That committment deserves very high praise.
 
There are guys like Bhuvaneswar, Deepak Chahar conveniently get injured outside IPL window and make sure they don't get picked for internationals.
Bhuvi never did it.He was figured out after that awful nz, aus tours in 14.No more test matches and there after he was regular for odis for some time.He lost pace and then the arrival of bumrah, shami made it impossible.
 
Bhuvi never did it.He was figured out after that awful nz, aus tours in 14.No more test matches and there after he was regular for odis for some time.He lost pace and then the arrival of bumrah, shami made it impossible.
No he still would have been a viable option for England,SA tour. He never worked hard enough.
 
No he still would have been a viable option for England,SA tour. He never worked hard enough.
He was always viewed as test match bowler who needs helpful pitches. In sa 2018 3rd test match, he got mom.he was a genuine team player .As a srh fan, i followed his career.He was not good enough to compete with shami , umesh, resurgent ishant and the goat bumrah.He never went up in the test pecking order after 2015.In limited formats, his batting made him viable in that awful tailenders eleven.Few teammates even said bhuvi was so much a sore loser that he will always put 200 percent effort.
 
He was always viewed as test match bowler who needs helpful pitches. In sa 2018 3rd test match, he got mom.he was a genuine team player .As a srh fan, i followed his career.He was not good enough to compete with shami , umesh, resurgent ishant and the goat bumrah.He never went up in the test pecking order after 2015.In limited formats, his batting made him viable in that awful tailenders eleven.Few teammates even said bhuvi was so much a sore loser that he will always put 200 percent effort.
The thing is Bumrah could have taken easy way out like Bhuvi did. There was a brief period India had to use Mukesh unadkat etc with loss of ishant and umesh. That commitment deserves a lot of appreciation..
 
Srinath was a better bowler from India.

Bumrah can only bowl on pitches with assistance that too only for a game or 2 before getting injured.
 
Srinath was a better bowler from India.

Bumrah can only bowl on pitches with assistance that too only for a game or 2 before getting injured.
Bumrah is comfortably the best pacer from Asia. Srinath won't figure out even among the top 5.

50+ wickets - Asian pacers away from Asia:
1763297884381.png

50+ wickers - Asian pacers in Asia:
1763297962946.png
 
Bumrah is comfortably the best pacer from Asia. Srinath won't figure out even among the top 5.

50+ wickets - Asian pacers away from Asia:
View attachment 159424

50+ wickers - Asian pacers in Asia:
View attachment 159425
Compare him to his peers. Not greats of the past. The pitches have been terrible in last decade or so.

The quality of batsmanship too has gone down rapidly since the advent of T20.
 
Tier 1 :

Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee

Tier 2 :

Ambrose
Steyn
Imran
Wasim
Bumrah
Donald

Tier 3:-

Lillee
Garner
Holding
Cummins
Pollock
Roberts
Waqar
Rabada


Tier 4:-

Walsh
Anderson
 
Compare him to his peers. Not greats of the past. The pitches have been terrible in last decade or so.

The quality of batsmanship too has gone down rapidly since the advent of T20.
So not with Srinath and compare with his peers, yah right?

Do you see Bumrah's 3-4 of peers appearing in this list?

Pacers away record in the last 55 years: Only 11 make the cut and only one from current era make it. If batsmen quality and pitch etc were making it so easy we should have seen 3-4 of Bumrah's peers making it here. Bumrah is just in different class among all Asian pacers in entire history and also among his peer group. Otherwise this list will be a long one and include many of his peers.

1763305573621.png
 
Tier 1 :

Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee

Tier 2 :

Ambrose
Steyn
Imran
Wasim
Bumrah
Donald

Tier 3:-

Lillee
Garner
Holding
Cummins
Pollock
Roberts
Waqar
Rabada


Tier 4:-

Walsh
Anderson

Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee

Steyn
Ambrose

Bumrah
IK
Donald

Garner
Wasim
Holding
Lillee
Cummins
Pollock
Rabada
Walsh
.....
.....
 
If he was playing for Pak, ICC would have asked PCB to check his hyper extension every now and then, as they did to Shoaib and Murali.
 
Jasprit Bumrah is now tied with Bob Willis for the most 5 wicket innings without a 10 wicket match

1763405572169.jpeg
 
Flawed bowling action means he's so injury prone. Needs to pick at least 100 more wickets to become part of the conversation.
 
Oh man even Hazlewood don't have a 10fer.. other intersting names are Bret Lee, Gillespie and Matt Henry..
Nobody pushes Hazlewood, Lee, Gillespie or Matt Henry as some kind of GOAT. If you admit he’s just a good bowler and not part of any GOAT conversation people would stop bringing it up
 
So not with Srinath and compare with his peers, yah right?

Do you see Bumrah's 3-4 of peers appearing in this list?

Pacers away record in the last 55 years: Only 11 make the cut and only one from current era make it. If batsmen quality and pitch etc were making it so easy we should have seen 3-4 of Bumrah's peers making it here. Bumrah is just in different class among all Asian pacers in entire history and also among his peer group. Otherwise this list will be a long one and include many of his peers.

View attachment 159428
Away records is not a flex. Every away fixture has invariably better bowling conditions for him.

Let’s see if he plays in pak, SL or Bangla and then if he performs there then we can judge. Away series in Australia, NZ and SA are a bowler’s dream!
 
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Away records is not a flex son. Every away fixture has invariably better bowling conditions for him.

Let’s see if he plays in pak, SL or Bangla and then if he performs there then we can judge. Away series in Australia, NZ and SA are a bowler’s dream!
Yah, that's why Asian pacers usually have worse away record away than home. Away record is the proper flex, home lions are dime and dozens.
 
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In entire history of circket, only 9 bowlers have 150+ away wickets with sub 25 avg

That's not a flex, lol

1763421122656.png

Flex is home lions list which is 3 times longer list.

1763421233852.png




Before some one start talking about pitch being flat in Asia and not suitable for pacers,

Dev - home avg 26 - away avg 32
vaas - home avg 26 - away avg 32
IK - home Avg 19 - Away avg 25
Waqar - home avg 20 - Away avg 25
Wasim - home avg 22 - Away avg 24
Srinath - home avg 26 - Away avg 33

Even the best Asian pacer Bumrah - home avg 16 and away avg 20

So yes, performing better away is harder than doing it at home even for Asian pacers. Most Asian pacers average several points higher when playing away. That's the ususal trend for most Asian or even non-Asian bowlers.
 
Son, LOL.

Yah, that's why Asian pacers usually have worse away record away than home. Away record is the proper flex, home lions are dime and dozens.
You’re confusing your yardsticks. In England or New Zealand a bowler is judged not on his performances on seaming tracks at home, but how they do on the flatter tracks abroad esp
Subcontinent.

You’re kind of flipping it here!

I know Indians have to create narratives, but come on, be a bit more creative.

I for one want to see how Bumrah does on a pitch like Rawalpindi or multan let’s see if he’s all he’s made out to be.

I know you posted some stats, I’ll have a read and I’m sure with my contextualisation I can easily bring you down to earth. Simpleton stats don’t work with me
 
You’re confusing your yardsticks. In England or New Zealand a bowler is judged not on his performances on seaming tracks at home, but how they do on the flatter tracks abroad esp
Subcontinent.

You’re kind of flipping it here!

I know Indians have to create narratives, but come on, be a bit more creative.

I for one want to see how Bumrah does on a pitch like Rawalpindi or multan let’s see if he’s all he’s made out to be.

I know you posted some stats, I’ll have a read and I’m sure with my contextualisation I can easily bring you down to earth. Simpleton stats don’t work with me
It is not enough, Taskin Ahmed, Hasan Mahmud, Ollie Robinson humiliating Pakistan in Pakistan, you want Bumrah to do the same?
 
It is not enough, Taskin Ahmed, Hasan Mahmud, Ollie Robinson humiliating Pakistan in Pakistan, you want Bumrah to do the same?
Well let’s see, cricket is not played on paper. It doesn’t have to be Rawalpindi. Let’s actually see him on a proper dead track wherever it is in the world.

Let’s think back to Old Trafford - the the flattest pitch last summer. Not quite as flat as Rawalpindi but it’s a good measurement. We all saw what happened there, it led to him being dropped err I mean “rested”.

You can create all your fake narratives and play stats yoga, the world isn’t stupid, we can analyse.

And still no 10fer. And still a failure in the second innings. Who knows if he had taken some wickets with the new ball vs SA, India could have won that game. Jansen managed it, why not Bumrah?
 
Well let’s see, cricket is not played on paper. It doesn’t have to be Rawalpindi. Let’s actually see him on a proper dead track wherever it is in the world.

Let’s think back to Old Trafford - the the flattest pitch last summer. Not quite as flat as Rawalpindi but it’s a good measurement. We all saw what happened there, it led to him being dropped err I mean “rested”.

You can create all your fake narratives and play stats yoga, the world isn’t stupid, we can analyse.

And still no 10fer. And still a failure in the second innings. Who knows if he had taken some wickets with the new ball vs SA, India could have won that game. Jansen managed it, why not Bumrah?
On a dead pitch - almost every bowler is helpless - including the likes of Lilee , McGrath , Wasim , Ambrose , Steyn

Dont think that should be a yardstick
 
On a dead pitch - almost every bowler is helpless - including the likes of Lilee , McGrath , Wasim , Ambrose , Steyn

Dont think that should be a yardstick
Not necessarily

Ben Stokes took a 5fer on that same track, Jofra got a useful 3fer
 
My thoughts on Bumrah: “he is a great chucker, good thing is that he is tall and handsome”.
 
Bumrah has also won test matches in India in similar conditions ( check out India England series in 2024)
In India Bumrah only really bowls significantly when there’s something in the pitch for fast bowlers.

India very rarely prepare flat tracks anymore
 
In India Bumrah only really bowls significantly when there’s something in the pitch for fast bowlers.

India very rarely prepare flat tracks anymore
If india only produces non flat tracks, how do you know how we bowls on flat tracks?
 
This dude has made it his life mission to be known as the worst liar on this forum

No matter how much bitter people like you LIE, hyperextension will never be chucking.

You can keep lying and I will keep calling you a liar.
The thing is - when shoaib was bowling and it was proven over and over it was hyper extension, the Indians didn’t afford him any courtesy.

Now all of a sudden hyper extension is a big thing for Indians - they’re even looking for bowlers that have natural hyperextension.

Personally, it probably is hyper extension for me, but it’s worth getting it confirmed using biomechanical tests. No harm in it.

Some people take the view that until he’s tested, they won’t change their opinion. I can’t argue with that .
 
Not necessarily

Ben Stokes took a 5fer on that same track, Jofra got a useful 3fer

So your evidence is grand total of one test match when bumrah was returning after injury for first series?

Where is the pattern? He has run through sides on flat tracks too when no other fast bowler did anything.

Do you remember akhtar going for 0 for 119 in multan test at a run rate of 4? Can that be used to conclude akhtar never did well on flat tracks?
 
So your evidence is grand total of one test match when bumrah was returning after injury for first series?

Where is the pattern? He has run through sides on flat tracks too when no other fast bowler did anything.

Do you remember akhtar going for 0 for 119 in multan test at a run rate of 4? Can that be used to conclude akhtar never did well on flat tracks?
No, because you can prove that he did well in many other games on flat tracks.

A couple of cases in point:

Lahore 2002. Pakistan racked up 643 and shoaib bowled NZ out for 73 taking 6-11

Lahore 2005 vs England. Pakistan racked up 636 - shoaib for a 5fer int he deciding innings.

There’s obviously more, but give me the same equivalent for Bumrah
 
You’re confusing your yardsticks. In England or New Zealand a bowler is judged not on his performances on seaming tracks at home, but how they do on the flatter tracks abroad esp
Subcontinent.

I know you posted some stats, I’ll have a read and I’m sure with my contextualisation I can easily bring you down to earth. Simpleton stats don’t work with me

For a change , try it instead of making tall claims.

Greatness is what players do in tough tours. Home performance is taken for granted for most good players. Home lions are dime and dozen.
 
In entire history of circket, only 9 bowlers have 150+ away wickets with sub 25 avg

That's not a flex, lol

View attachment 159466

Flex is home lions list which is 3 times longer list.

View attachment 159467




Before some one start talking about pitch being flat in Asia and not suitable for pacers,

Dev - home avg 26 - away avg 32
vaas - home avg 26 - away avg 32
IK - home Avg 19 - Away avg 25
Waqar - home avg 20 - Away avg 25
Wasim - home avg 22 - Away avg 24
Srinath - home avg 26 - Away avg 33

Even the best Asian pacer Bumrah - home avg 16 and away avg 20

So yes, performing better away is harder than doing it at home even for Asian pacers. Most Asian pacers average several points higher when playing away. That's the ususal trend for most Asian or even non-Asian bowlers.
The difference and I don’t expect you to include this nuance. Every single bowler has had to toil on some away dead tracks in SL, Pak, UAE etc which naturally will impact their statistics.

Bumrah hasn’t played in SL, Pak, Bangladesh, UAE.

So performing in multiple tours in nice friendly pitches in Eng, Aus, SA, NZ is no flex.

Thing is, I know you are clever enough to know the difference, you aren’t stupid, but you hope your readers are simpletons who will do a headshake “oh jes, vun plus vun equal two”.

Nice try tho.

You tried the “who has performed in SENA”? When that was defeated, it becomes “away matches” knowing full well that the away matches are all in SENA!
 
So performing in multiple tours in nice friendly pitches in Eng, Aus, SA, NZ is no flex.
And how other asian bowlers fared in those countries.. Since it easy I guess almost every good pacers will have same record as Bumrah..
 
And how other asian bowlers fared in those countries.. Since it easy I guess almost every good pacers will have same record as Bumrah..
You can’t compare everything. Quality of batting is obviously going to be different.

Getting wickets vs the current Aussie batting line up is not the same as bowling to Hayden, Langer, ponting, the Waugh bros and Gilly .

This is why you shouldn’t compare eras. If you believe Bumrah is great, I’d prefer you just say that. Trying to prove it through stats is a thing India keep trying to do. Just give it up.

And I’m consistent. I rip apart the stats of my countrymen too like babar, Rizwan and even Mo Abbas when he had a great beginning to his career
 
Well let’s see, cricket is not played on paper. It doesn’t have to be Rawalpindi. Let’s actually see him on a proper dead track wherever it is in the world.

Let’s think back to Old Trafford - the the flattest pitch last summer. Not quite as flat as Rawalpindi but it’s a good measurement. We all saw what happened there, it led to him being dropped err I mean “rested”.

You can create all your fake narratives and play stats yoga, the world isn’t stupid, we can analyse.

And still no 10fer. And still a failure in the second innings. Who knows if he had taken some wickets with the new ball vs SA, India could have won that game. Jansen managed it, why not Bumrah?
Only fake narrative i see is from you with lot of heart burns lol. Australians who had Dennis Lillee are the one talking about Bumrah being.the GOAT. So are English. You can keep your half baked analysis with yourself. Generally poor cricket acumen. Not surprising
 
The difference and I don’t expect you to include this nuance. Every single bowler has had to toil on some away dead tracks in SL, Pak, UAE etc which naturally will impact their statistics.

Bumrah hasn’t played in SL, Pak, Bangladesh, UAE.

So performing in multiple tours in nice friendly pitches in Eng, Aus, SA, NZ is no flex.

Thing is, I know you are clever enough to know the difference, you aren’t stupid, but you hope your readers are simpletons who will do a headshake “oh jes, vun plus vun equal two”.

Nice try tho.

You tried the “who has performed in SENA”? When that was defeated, it becomes “away matches” knowing full well that the away matches are all in SENA!
SL, PAk and BD? lol

You are now looking at bottom of barrels for arguements. India does not play enough tests against SL and BD for obvious reason and doesn't play Pak. So if your entire point is why no record in these venues then I don't have much to add.

It's always a flex if you can outbowl your peers by a large margin in same friendly pitches in Eng, Aus, SA, NZ.

1763475826267.png

Friendly pitches, non-friendly pitches and pitches from moon, none of that matters. Can you stand out in tough tours. If you can then you are among the best of the best. Steyn's avg is not great in tough tours taken together, but he stood out. Pitches were less friendly during his time than Bumrah and it will be not logical to simply compare averages. But one thing was common , Steyn and Bumrah both stood out in tough tours and that's the biggest flex in test cricket.


If you can stand out aganst top teams when playing away, that's the biggest flex in test cricket. Only one Asian pacer, Bumrah, has been an stand out. Look at some other Asian greats have done in tough tours during their time, It;s not so easy.

1763476605332.png
 
The difference and I don’t expect you to include this nuance. Every single bowler has had to toil on some away dead tracks in SL, Pak, UAE etc which naturally will impact their statistics.

Bumrah hasn’t played in SL, Pak, Bangladesh, UAE.

So performing in multiple tours in nice friendly pitches in Eng, Aus, SA, NZ is no flex.

Thing is, I know you are clever enough to know the difference, you aren’t stupid, but you hope your readers are simpletons who will do a headshake “oh jes, vun plus vun equal two”.

Nice try tho.

You tried the “who has performed in SENA”? When that was defeated, it becomes “away matches” knowing full well that the away matches are all in SENA!
By your logic, Walsh must be rated higher than Ambrose. He played far more than Ambrose in Asia and did a lot better as well.
 
Well well well - can’t even clean the tail.

But “hE vuLD vElL in eBerY cOnjiShuN”
Yes so bad Bumrah cannot take a 5fer every time he bowls

Unlike Imran Wasim Waqar who always took a 5 fer , always cleaned up the tail , always won every game they played
 
Yes so bad Bumrah cannot take a 5fer every time he bowls

Unlike Imran Wasim Waqar who always took a 5 fer , always cleaned up the tail , always won every game they played
Sorry, no-one’s claiming any of them are GOAT?

Great bowlers, but apparently a little birdie or bud buddie told me Bumrah has surpassed them all.
 
Sorry, no-one’s claiming any of them are GOAT?

Great bowlers, but apparently a little birdie or bud buddie told me Bumrah has surpassed them all.
No Bumrah has not surpassed them. He needs atleast 300 test wickets to do so
 
IMO there's no such thing as GOAT, only greatest of your era. You can never compare across eras - different conditions, different batsmen, different rules etc. And they never had DRS.

Based on that, I think that Bumrah is the greatest of this era, and we've had Rabada. Not since Steyn have I thought "this oke is special". I'm always nervous when we have to face up to him.

Everyone trying to bring him down, while elevating players like Lillee, really don't see the irony. You can look for any excuse to bring any player down. Lillee never toured the subcontinent, and the few matches he did play in Pakistan, he got sent to all parts. Does that make him any less great in his era? The only thing that matters is how well your peers regard you. Lillee was highly rated by his peers, as is Bumrah.
 
IMO there's no such thing as GOAT, only greatest of your era. You can never compare across eras - different conditions, different batsmen, different rules etc. And they never had DRS.

Based on that, I think that Bumrah is the greatest of this era, and we've had Rabada. Not since Steyn have I thought "this oke is special". I'm always nervous when we have to face up to him.

Everyone trying to bring him down, while elevating players like Lillee, really don't see the irony. You can look for any excuse to bring any player down. Lillee never toured the subcontinent, and the few matches he did play in Pakistan, he got sent to all parts. Does that make him any less great in his era? The only thing that matters is how well your peers regard you. Lillee was highly rated by his peers, as is Bumrah.
Agree. He is by far the vest strike bowler of his era

Like Dale Steyn & McGrath. Like Lilee & Marshall. Just that he needs 300 plus test wickets to join this league of elite pace bowlers of all time
 
Sorry, no-one’s claiming any of them are GOAT?

Great bowlers, but apparently a little birdie or bud buddie told me Bumrah has surpassed them all.
So who's that GOAT who takes 5fers every time when he bowls..?
 
IMO there's no such thing as GOAT, only greatest of your era. You can never compare across eras - different conditions, different batsmen, different rules etc. And they never had DRS.

Based on that, I think that Bumrah is the greatest of this era, and we've had Rabada. Not since Steyn have I thought "this oke is special". I'm always nervous when we have to face up to him.

Everyone trying to bring him down, while elevating players like Lillee, really don't see the irony. You can look for any excuse to bring any player down. Lillee never toured the subcontinent, and the few matches he did play in Pakistan, he got sent to all parts. Does that make him any less great in his era? The only thing that matters is how well your peers regard you. Lillee was highly rated by his peers, as is Bumrah.
I agree with you. He is the best of his era.

He has some black marks against him, but there is no bowler that is absolutely perfect in all aspects and all conditions.

And the other thing is, he is a very enjoyable bowler to watch.

Another ERA great was Mcgrath for example, great bowler, but not the greatest entertainer. Bumrah is box office as well as being effective.
 
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